IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 5 August 2010   (all times are UTC)

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07:12
<Blinny>
alkisg: Well, I'm on the old kernel. I should know by this time tomorrow if it's a kernel issue.
07:13
<alkisg>
Blinny: ok. Also, if you want, paste the output of this to pastebin: tcpdchk -v
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07:14
<alkisg>
Urm never mind I thought that also listed the keepalive setting but it doesn't - post hosts.allow if you want
07:15
<Blinny>
heh yeah you don't want my hosts.deny -- I use denyhosts
07:16
http://pastebin.com/QPvcFYEr
07:19
<alkisg>
Yeah looks ok, I wonder if there's a way to check an already made connection to see if it has keep_alive = on...
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07:38
<alkisg>
Btw, I wonder why we don't use `exec` on nbdrootd, that would save us from all the nbdrootd processes using up RAM...
07:43
stgraber, ogra, any reasons for not putting `exec` on the last line of nbdrootd? Seems to work fine here...
07:43
PATH=/usr/bin:/bin:$PATH exec nbd-server 0 $1 -r -C /dev/null $nbd_timeout > /dev/null 2>&1
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08:26
<wurzzero>
Hi, is there a way to set the 'PRINTER_0_FLOWCTRL' to DTR/DSR? I saw that we have the Software (XON/XOFF) and Hardware (CTS/RTS) options...
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08:32
<alkisg>
wurzzero: you probably need to patch /opt/ltsp/i386/usr/sbin/jetpipe for that. See http://pyserial.sourceforge.net/pyserial_api.html about dsrdtr.
08:32
vagrantc: I'm thinking of putting an `exec` to the last line of nbdrootd, can you see any problems with that? Seems to work fine here...
08:32
PATH=/usr/bin:/bin:$PATH exec nbd-server 0 $1 -r -C /dev/null $nbd_timeout > /dev/null 2>&1
08:33
(to save us from all the nbdrootd processes + RAM)
08:33
<wurzzero>
all right, i'll read that, tanks!
08:33
<vagrantc>
alkisg: should be fine
08:33
<alkisg>
OK, committing...
08:34
<vagrantc>
alkisg: nbdswapd needs to run the cleanup bits... but nbdrootd doesn't
08:34
alkisg: if we ever switched to supporting the writeable cow file stuff, we might have to change that
08:34
<alkisg>
Right, I won't do that for nbdswapd (although rm while the file is being used works, but it's too much of a hack :))
08:35
<vagrantc>
alkisg: also, the newest version of nbd supports a single port with multiple images...
08:35
<alkisg>
vagrantc: writeable cow stuff? you mean nbd-server -c?
08:36
vagrantc: about multiple images, aren't those only separated by the client IP? I.e. we can't use that, can we?
08:38
I once filed a feature request about it, and he said he'd like to implement it, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nbd/+bug/593227
08:40
<vagrantc>
alkisg: the new version supports the client requesting a particular image
08:40
<alkisg>
Yey!!! /me looks...
08:44
nbd-server -c: Copy on write. ...This separate file is removed when the connection is closed...
08:45
So it's removed automatically, `exec` would still be valid there afaik
08:45
<vagrantc>
ah, cool
08:45
<alkisg>
Also, I wonder if we can use the same thing for swap files
08:45
Example: make a 1GB swap file in /tmp, and export the same file with -c in all the clients
08:46
They'll make temp files with only the changed data ==> small
08:46
Then, when the connection is closed, they'll be automatically deleted
08:46
<vagrantc>
i think it adds considerable overhead
08:46
<alkisg>
Sounds cool, but yeah that ^^^
08:46
<vagrantc>
but the automatic deleting might be worth it
08:46
<alkisg>
Also automatic size
08:46
(up to the max swap size we prepared)
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09:18
<alkisg>
vagrantc: hdparm -tT /dev/nbd2 (==swap file using nbd-server -c) ==> 3.39 MB/sec
09:18
while hdparm -tT /dev/nbd0 (==swap file using nbdswapd) ==> 3.23 MB/sec
09:18
So I don't see any performance loss there. And also we save a lot of /tmp space on the server, as the .diffs are initially empty, until used.
09:18
<vagrantc>
brutak!
09:18
brutal!
09:18
<alkisg>
...and they automatically get deleted
09:18
It sounds good to me...
09:19
We just need to mkswap /tmp/ltspswap.img once when the server boots (or when nbdswapd is first called, if no race conditions can happen there)
09:20
<vagrantc>
need to use mktemp if you're using /tmp
09:20
<alkisg>
Is there any problem if we create a very big swap file? E.g. 1 Gb? Only one needs to be created, the rest are just diffs...
09:21
(so we don't need to keep it low like we do now with 64MB, we may as well use it for fat clients too)
09:21
<vagrantc>
can't you use an empty file 1GB long?
09:21
<alkisg>
Well e.g. now 64MB x 20 clients ==> bigger than that
09:21
What's a good size? 512? 256?
09:22
Ah sorry misread
09:22
Yes, that 1 GB empty file was what I was talking about, just one file with mktemp / dd 1 Gb / mkswap
09:23
<vagrantc>
but you can create a file that takes no space, but is treated as 1GB
09:23
<alkisg>
Do all file systems support that?
09:23
<vagrantc>
dd if=/dev/zero bs=1024k count=0 seek=1000
09:23
alkisg: don't know
09:23
<alkisg>
Ah, yes, that's how I did it now, I didn't know seek is used for sparse files
09:24
<vagrantc>
alkisg: oh, that's what we already do
09:24
sparse files, that's what it's call
09:24
<alkisg>
The code in nbdswapd only needs a few minor changes to handle nbd-server -c
09:24
(e.g. not rm in the end)
09:24
But the most important question is, should nbd-server -c be the default?
09:25
Any downsides?
09:27
<vagrantc>
depends how stable/reliable it is...
09:27
i'd want more real-world testing before making it the default
09:28
anyways, gotta run...
09:28* vagrantc waves
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10:05* alkisg noted down that idea in https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ltsp/+bug/613868
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10:45
<lordzhao>
boa tarde a todos
10:47
alguem poderia me ajudar?
10:47
<vagrantc>
this channel is mostly in english
10:47
there are a few portuguese speakers, though
10:48
<lordzhao>
ok
10:49
ok, then in English, the translator of google :)
10:49
<vagrantc>
oh boy
10:49
:)
10:50
<lordzhao>
I need help with network dm9102 can someone help?
10:51
always of a error "dhcpcd fail"
10:54
<alkisg>
https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/AddingModules ?
10:54
vagrantc: I didn't see any new support for different images in the nbd git... only the old support that is based on the client ip, which we can't really use
10:54
<vagrantc>
lordzhao: what linux distro? what version?
10:56
<lordzhao>
use a distro based on debian
10:56
<vagrantc>
lordzhao: i don't know any that use dhcpcd ...
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10:57
<vagrantc>
lordzhao: what distro, specifically?
10:57
<lordzhao>
10:59
I think the problem with port 67
10:59
is always much time on it ... when will catch for the second time ip
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11:02
<lordzhao>
Running dhcpd on port 67
11:02
ERROR! dhcpd failed!
11:02
Kernel panic - not syncing: Attempted to kill init
11:04
<vagrantc>
ah
11:05
lordzhao: those errors all on the server, or on the thin client?
11:05
or both?
11:06
<lordzhao>
thin client
11:07
other NIC works normally
11:07
davicom dm9102 not
11:07
<vagrantc>
dhcpd shouldn't start on the thin client
11:07
that should be running on the server
11:09
<lordzhao>
sorry, the error is actually dhcpcd fail
11:10
<vagrantc>
and dhcpcd isn't normally installed on LTSP
11:10
at least on debian based systems
11:10
so something seems very unusual here
11:11
lordzhao: can you paste the output of "ltsp-info" to http://ltsp.pastebin.com
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11:24* Gadi guesses this is LTSP 4.2 that used dhcpdc
11:24* Gadi waves to vagrantc
11:27
<lordzhao>
know what can be?
11:31* vagrantc waves to Gadi
11:31
<vagrantc>
aha, ltsp 4 ...
11:31
<Gadi>
lordzhao: are you still on LTSP 4?
11:32
<lordzhao>
yes
11:32
<Gadi>
if so, the driver for that NIC is most likely not present in the initramfs
11:32
or it does not correctly detect the correct driver
11:32
what NIC?
11:32
ah, davicom dm9102
11:32
do you know what driver it uses?
11:34
<lordzhao>
I believe it is the tulip...know how I can solve?
11:34
<Gadi>
does it PXE or etherboot?
11:35
if it is PXE, you can try adding NIC=tulip in the appropriate pxlinux.cfg/ file
11:35
if it is etherboot, you can try adding NIC=tulip to the appropriate option in dhcpd.conf
11:37
if those don't work, then you may need to find the correct driver, get it into the initramfs and edit the "niclist" in the initramfs to load it based upon PCI ID
11:37
man, this takes me back....
11:37
;)
11:37
bbiab
11:38
<lordzhao>
Gadi, really what I saw in all forums...but is not working
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11:47
<lordzhao>
Gadi, Thank you for your attention and help ... I have to leave now but come back later.
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13:05
<Damianos>
Installation question: Installing from the Karmic Alt CD, how do I set my wireless card as primary connection? I don't have a secondary NIC and I need the gigabit ethernet mobo port for the LTSP LAN
13:07
<alkisg>
Set up static IPs and change /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf
13:07
(or you can use eth0 for both ltsp clients + internet)
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13:08
<Damianos>
ok
13:08
thanks a million!
13:09
What if I just skip the network detection phase? Will that still set up the LTSP on the ethernet port?
13:10
<dekelev>
hi
13:12
<alkisg>
Damianos: I'm not sure, but whatever you choose, all you have to do later on is check /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf
13:12
...and /etc/network/interfaces. So no big deal.
13:12
<dekelev>
is there a way to configure a default audio device for the clients to use, in case they have it plugged in ?
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13:13
<dekelev>
or save every user's audio preferences so it will stay the same after reboot ?
13:21
<Damianos>
@alkisg: ok, gotcha thanks for your help!
13:25
<dekelev>
any ideas? i'm lost
13:26
<alkisg>
dekelev: well I know you can setup some audio device, but not conditionally. I believe you'd need to write a script for this, and put it in a RC_FILE directive in lts.conf
13:28
<vagrantc>
alkisg: i guess the nbd filename request stuff wasn't yet added
13:29
alkisg: might be included in nbd 2.9.17
13:29
<alkisg>
vagrantc: I didn't see anything in git though... I wish it will
13:30
nbd-server -c for nbdrootd + a standarized port would be good to have
13:30
(cow also saves some ram on the client, as no tmpfs is needed)
13:30
<vagrantc>
alkisg: he got a port from IANA for this purpose
13:30
<alkisg>
Yey!
13:30
Which one?
13:30
<vagrantc>
don't know
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13:40
<dekelev>
alkisg: thanks, I'm trying to mess with alsa-base.conf to configure usb sound as default
13:40
<alkisg>
dekelev: I believe you can do that from lts.conf. You just can't conditionally select one or the other...
13:41
<dekelev>
realy?
13:41
I check the lts.conf manual for this
13:41
checked
13:41
didn't find it
13:45
<alkisg>
Ah, you're right, -c0 (first device) is hardcoded there.
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14:13
<Damianos>
OK I'm kind of lost, wht exactly am I supposed to be looking for in the dhcp config file? All it says is primary interface is eth0
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14:28
<Kyle__>
Humm
14:29
Are there any good examples of how to setup thick clients? I've done the server setup (I think), but I'm not seeing much in the way of documenting the client setup at this point...
14:29
<alkisg>
Damianos: /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf ==> the ip range there
14:30
Kyle__: the windows PCs?
14:30
Do they support "boot from network"?
14:30
If so, you don't need anything else on the clients...
14:32
<Kyle__>
alkisg: Errr. In my setup and resetup etc, I don't appear to have a pxelinux.0 file anymore
14:32
<alkisg>
Ah. Try `ltsp-update-kernels`
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14:34
<Kyle__>
Humm. Maybe my conf file is screwie.... re-reading.
14:36
nevermind. Those are relative paths to the ltftpd server... OK, he goes nofin.
14:39
alkisg: is ltsp-update-kernels supposed to take care of copying over the kernel to the tftpboot directory?
14:39
<alkisg>
Yes
14:39
(of course if the chroot is already build and everything else is in order)
14:39
<Kyle__>
It didn't copy over vmlinuz for some reason. Maybe my chroot isn't right.
14:41
<alkisg>
ls -l /opt/ltsp/i386/boot
14:44
<Kyle__>
Yea, there was no kernel there. I'm chrooted into it now to see why there's no kernel installed :)
14:45
Other than installing linux-image-xyzversion-generic, any suggestions on kernels?
14:46
<alkisg>
I think linux-image-generic is more appropriate, that will pull the most recent version. But why wasn't it installed, and what else is missing?
14:47
<Kyle__>
Ah ok....
14:47
Well, apparently the grub and firmware packages are missing too, since it's adding those now.
14:48
<alkisg>
Maybe ltsp-build-client broke for some reason, and you need to run it from the start?
14:49
<Kyle__>
Maybe...Not sure. I'll just wait and see how this one goes now.
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14:50
<Kyle__>
So after this, I run ltsp-update-image && ltsp-update-kernels. After normal changes just ltsp-update-image is enough right?
14:51
<alkisg>
ltsp-update-image --force should also take care of the kernels
14:52
<Kyle__>
Sweet.
14:52
So I just treat the chroot however I would a normal machine, rebuild, and reboot the clients, and it's done. I like this.
14:54
<alkisg>
Right. And with nfs, or with an nbd partition, no rebuilding is even needed...
14:54
<Kyle__>
I take it because I have an /opt/ltsp/i386/images/*.img file I'm using an nbd file not a partition?
14:55
<alkisg>
Yup, that's the normal way to go - it's just a little time consuming with fat chroots
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14:56
<Kyle__>
OK. Well I'll get this going, then work on the fancy stuff :)
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15:22* Kyle__ grumbles. Stupid small partition.
15:23
<Kyle__>
Died at 200mb to go cause the part was too small. At least it's not hard to make it larger. Grr.
15:25
<alkisg>
Maybe that's why ltsp-build-client failed, too
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15:31
<Kyle__>
Eh, I don't think so. It was almost big enough to hold both.
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15:45
<Kyle__>
OK I had to create an nbd-server config file, maybe it's not quit right, cause it's still complaining that it can't connet to the NBD server.
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15:45
<alkisg>
Kyle__: no, delete it, nbd-server starts from inetd
15:45
/etc/inetd.conf
15:45
<Kyle__>
Errr. oh.
15:46
Out of curiocity, why?
15:46
curiosity rather.
15:46
Ahh, it had an old image name in there.. easy fix
15:50
<alkisg>
inetd saves memory when nbd-server is not used, provides some security with /etc/hosts.allow/deny, allows easy scripting (nbdrootd/nbdswapd) because the sockets are redirected to stdin etc
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15:55
<Kyle__>
Fair enough. So if I shared a partition, does it have to be a block device like sdb2, or can it be an LVM partition?
15:56* Kyle__ swears at himself: no users on that image.
15:57
<alkisg>
You use the server users
15:57
You don't add user accounts to the chroot
15:57
<Kyle__>
Fat client.
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15:57
<alkisg>
No difference
15:57
Still, user accounts are on the server
15:57
<Kyle__>
Odd. It doesn't see any of the servers users.
15:57
<alkisg>
?
15:57
Are you using gdm?
15:58
<Kyle__>
I can try again, but it didn't the two times i tried.
15:58
Err, it's a graphical login manager, doesn't look like ubuntu's stock GDM, but I suppose it could be
15:58
<alkisg>
Ah, you mean that username/password fails?
15:58
No, that's LDM
15:58
Check auth.log on the server while trying to login on the client
15:59
<Kyle__>
Saying failed due to unknown user id
15:59
But that was on the screen, checking the log now.
16:00
<alkisg>
No that "unknown user id" message comes from pulseaudio
16:00
<Kyle__>
Oh.
16:01
the auth log doesn't seem to have anything recent enough to be from the clients.
16:01
<alkisg>
Then try creating an lts.conf file to debug this, ie.
16:02
/var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/lts.conf with:
16:02
[Default]
16:02
SCREEN_02=shell
16:02
<vagrantc>
originally ran nbd* from inetd because running nbd-server directly with multiple connections just crashed
16:02
<alkisg>
SCREEN_07=ldm
16:02
Ouch
16:02
<vagrantc>
though i wonder if that's still the case with newer versions...
16:02
<Kyle__>
Hu.
16:02
<vagrantc>
that was a *long* time ago
16:03
<Kyle__>
If I read correctly, I don't have to do anything but reboot the clients for that type of change, correct?
16:03
<alkisg>
Kyle__: yup
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16:03
<alkisg>
Alt+ctrl+f2, and type: ssh user
16:03
ssh user@server
16:04
Change "user" to an existing username, leave "server" exactly as it is.
16:05
<Kyle__>
I take it specifygin SCREEN_## it's just telling it what binary to run? So we just tossed a root shell in there, didn't we?
16:05
<alkisg>
Kinda - these are special "screen scripts", you can't put arbitrary commands there
16:06
<Kyle__>
Ahh. Well the SSH worked, but df -h as root there kindly let me know that I don't have /home mounted.
16:07
Which would cause that problem in most grpahical login managers.
16:07
<alkisg>
It'll be mounted with sshfs
16:07
Did you see any messages/warnings at all with that ssh line?
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16:07
<Kyle__>
No, it just worked.
16:08
Oh. Humm. So it shoul dhave just worked, but didn't.
16:08
<alkisg>
Hm. OK, switch to vt7 and try from LDM
16:08
Ah, ok
16:09
<Kyle__>
Trying again with LDM. This time I'm seeing messages about creating .Xauthority files, etc....
16:09
I think it's working.
16:10
Wait...by default it's using sshfs? I never setup ssh keys. That would probably be the issue.
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16:12
<alkisg>
Those are done automatically
16:12
<Kyle__>
Then I'm confused. Because when I sshed it did the usual first time auth stuff.
16:13
<alkisg>
Then ltsp-update-sshkeys && ltsp-update-image is needed
16:13
<Kyle__>
OK.
16:16
Thank you so much for this help.
16:17
<alkisg>
np
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16:27
<Kyle__>
Sweet, it's done. So does flipping the image require more than bouncing the clients?
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16:36
<Geeky1>
Hello
16:37
<hfrhryu34>
HI
16:37
<Geeky1>
If I don't want to PBX boot, is there a way to write the chroot image to local read-only media?
16:38
Sorry, mean PXE boot. :)
16:40
<Kyle__>
In the exact opposit of normal: I now have a lab of 3Ghz P4's with gigabit networking, fat-client booting from a 900Mhz PIII server with a 100baseT card....
16:40
But it's still cool.
16:41
This is awesome.
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16:41
<Geeky1>
Kyle__, Cool
16:42
<Kyle__>
Geeky1: unfortunately I don't know enough to help you with that, but wait around!
16:47
Humm. 5 out of the 10 I booted like this are up and fine, but five are just kindof spinning in the ubuntu boot process?
16:50
<johnny>
turn off quiet splash
16:50
in the pxelinux.cfg/default file
16:50
Geeky1, why wouldn't you want to pxeboot?
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17:04
<Kyle__>
johnny: I expected that to more tell me the problem, but it actually fixed it for 17 out of the 18 booted..
17:05
The one that isn't happy is complaining about an rsyslog timeout (sorry on the other side of the room, don't recall the exact message).
17:05* Kyle__ is just going to bounce that one again.
17:05
<johnny>
hah
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17:08
<Kyle__>
Very neat.
17:08
Humm. So it's using sftp for the sshfs?
17:09
You realize that there's a known bug in the openssh sftp server. Not a security one, but a performance one. It's abysmally slower than scp through the same system.
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17:13
<DanaG>
Say, how well does ltsp support ARM clients? Most tutorials I can find use the "create root" thingy for x86.
17:17
<johnny>
good question :)
17:18
the person who can answer isn't here
17:18
<Kyle__>
DanaG: I'm only just starting with it myself, but from what I see, you need to build the image for the target system on the target system... after that I think you should be able to serve it from any system.
17:18
That help?
17:18
<johnny>
you could need to create it from arm yes
17:18
would*
17:18
unless you setup some emulator
17:18
ogra, are you here?
17:19
kinda late in germany.. but he might be here
17:19
<DanaG>
Ah. I would have local storage -- an SD card -- for the root on the ARM.
17:19
<johnny>
you don't need it
17:19
just serve it pxe like normal if posible
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18:25
<lordzhao>
how do I remove the kernel module tulip ltsp?
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18:35
<lordzhao>
?
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18:41
<lordzhao>
how do I remove a module of the network card?
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18:58
<lordzhao>
algum brasileiro?
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19:39* vagrantc waves to ogra
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20:48
<EDinNY>
does JAM stop by anymore?
20:48
Anyone at the Linux show in Boston next week?
21:40
<vagrantc>
EDinNY: jim mcquillan?
21:40
!seen jammcq
21:40
<ltspbot`>
vagrantc: jammcq was last seen in #ltsp 2 days, 23 hours, 49 minutes, and 43 seconds ago: <jammcq> hey friends
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