IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 31 May 2010   (all times are UTC)

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04:15
<markvandenborre>
is there any arm machine that I could use as an ltsp client?
04:17
<johnny>
beagleboard is one possible way. probably something better out now
04:25
<markvandenborre>
openrd and friend?
04:25
s
04:36
johnny: have any more info on that?
04:40
obviously, one could boot it into some kind of thicker client
04:40
is that what you mean?
04:41
or do you mean netbooting that thing?
04:41
using a pxe-like mechanism?
04:41
something tftp-based?
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04:46
<alkisg>
Any ideas for an easy way to create swap partitions on ltsp clients, if they have a small disk with windows on it? (so resize ntfs/fat32 partition + create swap partition will be needed).
04:46
E.g. I thought about adding a SCREEN_07=gparted screen script, but that won't work well with 64MB clients.
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05:12
<Appiah>
ssh to them
05:12
use fdisk and mkswap
05:34
<alkisg>
Appiah: well... it'd be hard for teachers to use ntfsresize progs and then parted. fdisk won't do, it doesn't resize partitions.
05:35
I wonder if the debian install cd or the ubuntu alternate cd can be used for that - i.e. just for resize + partitioning.
05:38
<NeonLichT>
What about the Parted LiveCD?
05:39
<alkisg>
Which one is that? The gparted live cd? That won't work with 64 RAM... or is there a parted live cd as well?
05:39
<NeonLichT>
Probably you could boot without X, console only with it.
05:40
<alkisg>
The parted console binary doesn't support ntfs
05:40
It suggests to use ntfsprogs instead, which is hard for a person with no technical expertise...
05:40
<NeonLichT>
Oh, doesn't it?
05:44
I think the Gparted LiveCD might work with 64MB RAM.
05:48
alkisg: maybe also on the hiren boot CD there is a tool which could do it.
05:50
<alkisg>
I think the hiren's boot cd isn't freeware (it contains pirated software) so I couldn't really propose it to teachers. I'm still looking for the gparted live cd requirements, but I'm afraid it won't work with 64mb ram
05:50
I tried to install gparted to the chroot and run it instead of ldm, and it did run, but I don't think the ram will suffice for a resize operation
05:52
<NeonLichT>
I can't find it's requirements, either, but I think it loads Gparted without a window manager, so that it might work with 64MB. Not sure about the resize operation requirements, though.
05:54
<alkisg>
I think ltsp with nbd swap will have a better chance of running gparted than the live cd (which has no swap)... I'll try to see if it gets through with a small resize operation... :-/
05:58
<NeonLichT>
Mmmhhh... what about Tini Core linux? I'm going to check if it has Gparted as a package.
06:01
It does.
06:04
<alkisg>
Won't it have the same ram problems though? I don't think there's any recent distro light enough to properly run gparted with a gui...
06:04
<NeonLichT>
Maybe, although TCL is only 10MB
06:05
It loads itself into RAM, though.
06:06
I'm installing Gparted into it to see how much RAM it needs.
06:07
Maybe I say something with no sense but, wouldn't it work if you run Gparted as a local app booting LTSP?
06:09
<alkisg>
NeonLichT: what I did was run gparted _instead_ of ldm
06:09
That is like a localapp, but saving some memory, as ldm and ldmgtkgreeter do not need to run
06:09
...and no window manager either
06:09
I also had nbd_swap enabled, giving some network swapping to the client for the resize operation
06:10
<NeonLichT>
I see, that sounds realy nice :)
06:10
<alkisg>
I think that's as low (memory wise) as it can get
06:10
...but it still seemed too much to me. I didn't try the actual resize, but gparted was really slow.
06:10
<NeonLichT>
Probably, yes. Unless you go console only.
06:10
<alkisg>
Right, but I can't find a console tool that supports both fat + ntfs
06:11
Maybe some installer, either the debian one or the ubuntu alternate cd one
06:11
<NeonLichT>
Isn't placing the hard disk into another box to do the resize operation an option at all?
06:12
<alkisg>
No, not really, it's for teachers which have no technical expertise
06:12
If I can't find some linux-based way to propose to them, I'll just tell them to use an acronis demo or something like that
06:13
<NeonLichT>
I see.
06:14
Running out of ideas, you have a pretty tight scenario to move on XDD
06:16
<alkisg>
Heh :) Thanks for your thoughts though
06:27
Uh... the debian business card cd seemed to work fine, but then refused to go on and apply the changes because I had not set a root file system :-/
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06:42
<NeonLichT>
too bad...
07:05
Did you try again, alkisg?
07:06
<alkisg>
Nope, I didn't finish all of the tests yet
07:06
I want to try the gparted + network swap first, to see if I can pull it off with 64mb ram
07:07
<NeonLichT>
OK, let me know when you find out, I'm xurious. :)
07:07
<alkisg>
ok - if it works I'll even push the screen script upstream..
07:07
<NeonLichT>
That'd be great.
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08:24
<alkisg>
Heh, it worked fine with a fat chroot, but it didn't work with a thin chroot!
08:24
I'm suspecting that something (e.g. compcache) is making the thin chroots heavier than the fat chroots...
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08:34
<hettto>
Hello, I have problem with firefox/thunderbird on LTSP: firefox is running in the user's chroot and thunderbird outside the chroot. When a link in thunderbird is clicked - firefox tries to open: "www.%u.com". any idea on how to fix that?
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08:49
<vbundi>
if I want to print from localapps firefox do I need to install cups in my chroot, or is there a different way
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10:10
<markvandenborre>
is there any cheap arm hardware that can be used as an thin client with ltsp?
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10:13
<markvandenborre>
as in: tftp u-boot without embedded flash
10:15
http://www.globalscaletechnologies.com/p-33-guruplug-display.aspx looks really cool
10:19
<ogra>
markvandenborre, you should be able to make a guruplug work in debian
10:19
or wait for ubuntu 10.10 that will have support for the beagle XM
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10:24
<markvandenborre>
ogra: nice
10:25* markvandenborre is off (still grateful to jammcq who was very helpful in the early days when I first experimented with LTSP and free software in general!)
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10:50
<alkisg>
NeonLichT: I've tested it, it runs OK, and I've written a page about "how to run gparted locally on a thin client by running it as a screen script": https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/GParted
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11:20
<NeonLichT>
Great, alkisg, thanks for sahring it! :-)
11:22
, is it only for Ubuntu?
11:25
<alkisg>
NeonLichT: no, I don't think so, it should apply to all distros except for the installation commands (chroot apt-get install etc)
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11:42
<ogra_cmpc>
alkisg, i wouldnt add the bind mounting of the apt cache, that will become messy with cross arch
11:43
<jammcq>
ogra_cmpc: hey
11:43
<johnny>
oops, linode was down
11:43
<ogra_cmpc>
hey
11:43
<jammcq>
I went to Jorge's wedding last night
11:43
he's all married up now
11:43
<ogra_cmpc>
cool
11:43
<jammcq>
\names
11:44
oops
11:44
<ogra_cmpc>
heh
11:58
<alkisg>
ogra_cmpc, why would it be messy? afaik you can download any arch package into the cache
11:58
Much better than just leaving the cache on the chroot and the compressed nbd image...
11:58
<ogra_cmpc>
i'm not sure they will get cleaned up
11:59
<alkisg>
How will they get cleaned up on the chroot?
11:59
On the server, an apt-get autoclean cleans the obsolete packages, and apt-get clean cleans all of them
11:59
Independent of their arch
12:00
(btw it'd be better if we made an "ltsp-enter-chroot" command which would contain the best practices, whatever those are...)
12:01
<ogra_cmpc>
i thought vagrant wrote ltsp-chroot years ago
12:02
<alkisg>
Ah, didn't know that one. Nice, we could extend it to mount the cache, proc, dev/pts and whatever else is needed
12:03
...and also put it to /usr/sbin
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12:07
<ogra_cmpc>
sure, talk to vagrant
12:08
<alkisg>
Will do, thanks
12:08
<RicardoPerez>
alkisg: hi! can I ask you one little question about exporting DBUS_* to the chroot?
12:09
<alkisg>
RicardoPerez: erm, sure, but I'm not sure that I'll be able to answer it
12:09
<RicardoPerez>
alkisg: let's try it, if you want
12:09
<alkisg>
Shoot
12:10
<RicardoPerez>
thanks! in order to get a graphical app to run into the chroot, I need to export DISPLAY, but I think I need to export DBUS_SESSION_BUS_ADDRESS, too
12:10
because I get some error messages related with dbus
12:11
the question is that I don't know what value assign to the DBUS_* env var
12:12
the error message is "process 4204: D-Bus library appears to be incorrectly set up; failed to read machine uuid: Failed to open "/var/lib/dbus/machine-id"" ...
12:12
<alkisg>
Hmmm... let's start with `echo $DBUS_SESSION_BUS_ADDRESS`, and if it doesn't work then let's see if it needs some bind-mounting in order to find it..
12:12
Which program are you trying to run?
12:13
<RicardoPerez>
I'm trying to run gnome-language-selector
12:13
<alkisg>
(also, note what I told you last time, that this isn't recommented - at least I don't know how to properly run X/dbus chrooted programs)
12:13
<RicardoPerez>
alkisg, yes, you're right ;)
12:14
well, "echo $DBUS_SESSION_BUS_ADDRESS" is empty, no result
12:14
(inside the chroot, i mean)
12:15
outside the chroot i get a unix:abstract=/tmp/dbus-HTSAod9DIH,guid=2ae0ee663b0d9aa6268efada4c03e6d5
12:15
<alkisg>
Try this command: sudo LTSP_HANDLE_DAEMONS=false DISPLAY=$DISPLAY DBUS_SESSION_BUS_ADDRESS=$DBUS_SESSION_BUS_ADDRESS chroot /opt/ltsp/i386
12:15
Then just run gnome-language-selector (you're in the chroot)
12:16
<RicardoPerez>
mmmm... unfortunately, i get the same error message:
12:16
12:17
besides that, the tool is shown and I can click buttons, but after trying to download the langpacks, the tool stops
12:17
<alkisg>
try this before it: sudo mount --bind /var/lib/dbus /opt/ltsp/i386/var/lib/dbus
12:17
But again, warning - warning - warning - it's not my fault if it breaks everything :)
12:17
<RicardoPerez>
alkisg, don't worry! i'm only testing :)
12:18
well, it seems to be a good improvement!
12:19
unfortunately, now i got a gconf fault
12:19
GConf Error: Failed to contact configuration server; some possible causes are that you need to enable TCP/IP networking for ORBit, or you have stale NFS locks due to a system crash. See http://projects.gnome.org/gconf/ for information. (Details - 1: Failed to get connection to session: Did not receive a reply. Possible causes include: the remote application did not send a reply, the message bus security policy blocked the reply, the rep
12:19
ly timeout expired, or the network connection was broken.)
12:19
it seems to be a hard thing :/
12:20
<alkisg>
Yeah, and even if it works, it might modify some stuff on the server instead of the chroot.
12:20
Why don't you just apt-get install the necessary packages for language support?
12:20
<RicardoPerez>
don't worry about that, then... i'll try to do it by hand
12:21
yes, you're right, i'll do it manually, changing /etc/environment with LANG and LANGUAGE vars and installing langpacks by hand
12:21
it's the best approach
12:21
thank you very much after all, alkisg!
12:21
<alkisg>
np
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12:24
<RicardoPerez>
is there an easy way to install an LTSP server with thin clients but with SOME apps running locally like in fat clients?
12:24
<alkisg>
Sure, that's called localapps. See the wiki, there are some pages there.
12:25
<RicardoPerez>
great, i'll look at then, thanks again!
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13:38
<asmok>
Hello. Please, read this question: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/edubuntu-users/2010-May/006269.html
13:39
How to disable infobox on boot process with ltsp-cluster?
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