IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 29 August 2008   (all times are UTC)

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00:36
<cyberorg>
hmm, difficult to say, children may find it easier as it runs only one app at a time
00:37
they call them activities, it is quite different approach than normal desktop
00:37
they have tons of things in their activity repo, and a package manager xo-get to get what you want
00:38
<Nubae>
yeah ive been working with olenepal and using the xo quite a bit myself
00:38
but never seen it in use in the classroom
00:38
i just dont know if it is mature/polished enough as an os even for kids
00:39
as oppposed to telling the teachers to run gcompris or childsplay
00:39
or the the tux for kids suite
00:39
<cyberorg>
with ltsp it becomes easier to select another session if the children get bored with sugar :)
00:40
sugar has a great feature of shared activities
00:40
<Nubae>
now thats a good point... :-) let em choose
00:41
and the shared activities works well even through ltsp without ejabberd?
00:43
<cyberorg>
Nubae, now that needs testing, i have just been able to get everything together and running
00:43
sugar has something called presence service, i assume it is the service it uses for shared activities
00:44
i've just started to discover sugar :)
00:45
you are based in nepal?
00:45
<Nubae>
I was
00:46
I got shipped out cause I needed first world medication help (at least thats the excuse)
00:46
anyway, I was working on the XS server quite a lot
00:46
so I do know how sugar works in and out
00:47
the xos either work collaboratively through mesh networking... ie... connecting directly to each other
00:47
or via a XS server (at the moment just 7 or 8 packages)
00:47
<cyberorg>
i havent looked at XS server bits at all
00:48
<Nubae>
the most important thing here is ejabberd, which controls all collaborative bits in bigger setups
00:48
30+ clients
00:48
my interest also lies in tying sugar into ltsp
00:48
I think it makes sense
00:48
anyway... there is a command in sugar.... sugar-control-panel -s jabber ejabberdserver
00:49
<cyberorg>
all the testing i did on sugar was using ltsp :)
00:49
<Nubae>
this should make sugar use the jabber server and allow for large setups to run through ejabberd
00:49
which is wonderful for sharing since its designed in erlong
00:49
which seems to thread perfectly
00:50
but... like I said, Ive been in the lab, and never seen it in use....
00:50
<cyberorg>
so we would just need ejabberdserver installed on the server?
00:50
<Nubae>
so my curiosity lies in... is it all worth it?
00:50
right... ejabberd is quite easy to install and manage on ubuntu
00:51
and probably suse too
00:51
<cyberorg>
it is not so much work now, sugar is just 1-click install away, so definitely worth trying
00:51
<Nubae>
well, from the server side, I really know it inside out, so if you need help with collaborative stuff on sugar, just ask
00:52
ignore presence service, it was meant for mesh networks, which are now not even gonna work in regular ltsp setups
00:52
they must go through aps which then use ejabberd to do all collaboration
00:52
and that has been tested to scale well past 200+ laptops
00:53
and thats wireless... I bet wired it will scale far further
00:53
<cyberorg>
Nubae, how would it all work as everything in ltsp is running directly on the server
00:53
<Nubae>
ah ltsp up there was supposed to be olpc
00:54
point... I guess it just needs one ejabberd connection then and the rest should be automated
00:54
so u're working with ltsp only sugar
00:54
no xos or laptops?
00:55
<cyberorg>
ltsp only, dont have any hardware
00:55
ltsp or stand alone desktops
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00:55
<Nubae>
well, the standalone desktops will need to be told to run through ejabberd
00:56
but ltsp probably already does that automatically
00:56
I'd love to hear scaling stories
00:56
<cyberorg>
nope, we just call /usr/bin/sugar-shell
00:57
<Nubae>
as a possible desktop session?
00:57
<cyberorg>
does that use ejabberd automatically if available?
00:57
yes
00:57
<Nubae>
it should, yes
00:57
in the xos we were testing, I had to set them statically using sugar-control-panel
00:57
<cyberorg>
at ldm sugar-shell is available along with other sessions
00:58
<Nubae>
but in theory, the minute a user logs into sugar, it looks for ejaberdserver and uses it
00:58
do u have ejabberd installed?
00:58
<cyberorg>
any links on how to go about setting up ejabberd?
00:58
for sugar that is
00:59
<Nubae>
its a bitch, I spent weeks with it... but yes... theres a wiki, kinda ;-)
01:00
<cyberorg>
is jabberd: Jabber Open Source Server same as ejabberd?
01:00
<Nubae>
http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Ejabberd_Configuration
01:00
must be ejabberd
01:00
e - erlang
01:01
<cyberorg>
ah, we dont have that on suse, will have to package that too ..
01:01
<Nubae>
otherwise it doesnt do all the fancy stuff... but its native on fedora so it should be easy enough to port to suse
01:02
in any case, that wiki tells u where to wget it from and then rpm install
01:02
should work on suse
01:02
right?
01:02
<cyberorg>
yes, it should be easy enough :)
01:03
<Nubae>
oh, youll need erlang too
01:04
<cyberorg>
great, that we have available on oBS
01:09
<johnny>
no.. jabberd is jabberd
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01:11* cyberorg add one more thing to TODO list
01:15
<cyberorg>
johnny, it is not ejabbered either, it is ejabberd with olpc patches :)
01:17
<johnny>
hmm.. maybe they should come to ejabberd?
01:17
<Nubae>
heh... like I said... its a bitch
01:17
<cyberorg>
there they are http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Installing_ejabberd
01:18
may be they should get that upstream and people can then use ./configure --with-olpc to use them
01:18
<Nubae>
collabora has been working pretty closely with olpc on this, so basically, when u hear XS server
01:18
thats what it is
01:18
ejabberd with a couple patches and some auto dns stuff
01:18
sad sad
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01:58
<johnny>
hmm.. where does ckbcomp come from..
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02:02
<johnny>
console-setup i guess..
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02:11
<jimjimovich>
i was wondering if someone could give me some tips for adding users via command line and still keeping the default settings that are present in the GUI user admin app. When I add users via adduser, they don't have permissions for FUSE, for example.
02:11
or is there a way to enable the use of the users-admin gui when not logged in directly on the server?
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02:13
<johnny>
at that point you would run adduser jimjimovich
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02:13
<johnny>
you still might have to set the groups manually
02:13
i don't know, never used it
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02:15
<jimjimovich>
it's just that our actual server is very inconveniently located. will have to find a way to administer remotely
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02:23
<johnny>
jimjimovich, .. ssh is good
02:24
that's all i use
02:24
i'm pretty unfamiliar with the gui tools for the most part
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03:08
<ogra>
ssh -X user@server sudo users-admin
03:08
;)
03:09
<johnny>
or that ogra.. :)
03:09
lol
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03:49
<yanu>
hmm, on debian sid, 'ltsp-build-client --dist etch' , client starts good, but Xorg.6.log shows: no devices detected
03:49
any hints?
03:51
<ogra>
is there any reason you use the extremely ancient etch ?
03:51* ogra doubts anyone every tested that
03:51
<ogra>
*ever
03:51
<yanu>
sid didn't work
03:51
<ogra>
use lenny
03:52
<yanu>
ok, i'll have a try
03:52
<ogra>
or wait for vagrantc to show up to help debugging
03:52
(he is on pacific time, might take several hours)
03:52
<yanu>
i'll wont delete the ltsp-dir
04:08
ok, i have the ldm-login-screen, but can't login
04:16
ogra: thx for the 'lenny'-hint, all works well now
04:16
<ogra>
great
04:16* ogra has to rush out
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05:02
<pdjbarber>
how do i include a package in kiwi-ltsp? i need to include ifplugd (i think)
05:08
<johnny>
why?
05:09
<cyberorg>
pdjbarber, it is already included
05:09
<johnny>
hmm.. anybody think of a reason why tftp prefix wouldnt be set on these clients?
05:09
i just tested with another dell laptop
05:09
both say broadcom
05:11
<cyberorg>
pdjbarber, we opened shop in #kiwi-ltsp so we can keep this channel free for ltsp talk :)
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05:12
<pdjbarber>
cyberorg: after last night i rebuilt images, and tested on a higher spec device...booted to network interface and failed ifplugd...so client didn't get an IP address, which then leads to NBD issues i think
05:12
ok cheers cyberorg
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08:03
<Guaraldo>
Hi, jammcq...
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08:09
<jammcq>
Guaraldo: hey
08:09
bom dia
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08:35
<Guaraldo>
jammcq: Good morning, jammcq...
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09:20
<_UsUrPeR_>
q-funk: hey. I got that message from you after we were talking about your thincan
09:20
q-funk: I work for etyack. You sent him a thincan for testing.
09:20
<Q-FUNK>
ah, ok
09:20
that explains it :)
09:21
<_UsUrPeR_>
q-funk: it's a great machine, btw. Even if it doesn't have a power button ;)
09:21
q-funk: have you considered making a POE version?
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09:33
<_UsUrPeR_>
What's the option to shut off ssh encryption in the lts.conf?
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09:37
<_UsUrPeR_>
nm, found it :D
09:40
<Q-FUNK>
_UsUrPeR_: POE is a bit tricky, in that it is not a fully standardized spec.
09:40
it is mostly standard for 10/100mb ethernet, but not for faster
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09:41
<Q-FUNK>
and right now, our whole product line is going towards Gigabit
09:42
<_UsUrPeR_>
q-funk: yeah, higher data transfer rates does seem like the best way to go.
09:42
q-funk: but I also know how much you like to deprive the user of moving components ;)
09:42* _UsUrPeR_ must push a switch every 5 seconds, or he gets depressed
09:43
<Q-FUNK>
:-P
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09:48* _UsUrPeR_ pushes a button.
09:48
<_UsUrPeR_>
ahhhh.....
09:52
<dberkholz>
is there a way to run bzr log while only showing commits from a certain author?
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10:08
<dberkholz>
johnny2: fyi, i'm reviewing now
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10:24
<bjohnson>
can anyone point me to how to set up ltsp 5 off a centos 5.2 server?
10:24
I found a k12ltsp dvd iso but the darn thing is too big to burn to a DVD
10:24
so installed centos 5.2 from a standard centos install dvd
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10:29
<muh2000>
hi
10:29
<dmaran>
bjohnson - https://fedorahosted.org/k12linux/wiki/RHEL5Server.
10:31
<muh2000>
i use pulseaudio and sound on the server does not work :(
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10:31
<muh2000>
PULSEAUDIO: Unable to connect: Connection refused
10:33
<bjohnson>
dmaran: thanks
10:33
when it says local storage does not work, does that mean usb sticks don't work?
10:34
<warren>
bjohnson: actually it might work with fusermount setuid or fuse group
10:34
<bjohnson>
that's not a big deal to us, and no sound is not an issue, but I'd like to know
10:34
warren: thatnks .. I'll check into that when I get that far (likely not until late next week)
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10:51* dberkholz swears at launchpad
10:52
<ogra>
dberkholz, you should swear at #launchpad then :) so people can fix it ;)
10:52
<dberkholz>
ogra: oh, it's just being retarded. hopefully i can fix it in a couple min.
10:53
<ogra>
but generally the guys there are happy to fix stuff or hear about annoyances
10:53
<dberkholz>
apparently it doesn't like when your connection drops in the middle of a push
10:54
<ogra>
well, that would rather be a bzr prob i guess
10:54
<dberkholz>
johnny2: get signed up for launchpad please
10:54
<ogra>
he is
10:54
<dberkholz>
searching didn't find him..
10:55
<ogra>
i know he is active on plenty ubunu bugs ...
10:55* ogra look sat sabayon
10:55
<dberkholz>
maybe his real name isn't on there or something
10:55
<ogra>
https://launchpad.net/~johnny-localmomentum
10:56
heh, Karma: 9 ....
10:56
i take back the "active" :)
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10:56
<dberkholz>
ok, he's now a committer
10:57
<ogra>
good
10:57
<dberkholz>
ogra: btw, could you fix your bzr whoami so that your name on launchpad links somewhere?
10:57
<ogra>
yeah, sorry for that
10:58
https://launchpad.net/~ogra though ... not to hard to find :)
10:58
<dberkholz>
johnny2: you can now push to ltsp-upstream. i just merged in all of the existing work
10:58
<ogra>
yay
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11:13
<gbolte>
quiet in here this morning
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11:30
<gbolte>
anyone know why a client would just stop talking to the server
11:30
we have had this happen several times
11:31
but I cant figure out why it seems that the client will just loose connectivity and freeze
11:31
<ogra>
managed switch ?
11:31
<gbolte>
yeah
11:31
<ogra>
well, check that :)
11:31
<gbolte>
what am I looking for
11:31
lol
11:32
they are all in the right vlan
11:32
<ogra>
msconfiguration of the switch indeed :)
11:32
<gbolte>
they would not boot if they wern't
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11:33
<gbolte>
I was thinking possibly too many checksum errors on packets might cause it
11:33
like if the wiring just sucks for a few terminals
11:33
but I dont know how to see those errors
11:33
I know how to do it in windows
11:34
<ogra>
use wireshark
11:34
<alkisg>
Hello, I need to change ltsp-client-setup to put a custom /etc/hosts file in the ltsp clients. Which one is the one getting executed? /etc/init.d/ltsp-client-setup or /etc/rcS.d/S32ltsp-client-setup ?
11:36
<ogra>
alkisg, ?? if you put an /etc/hosts.ltsp inot the chroot that gets merged automatically ... no need to hack anything
11:36
<alkisg>
ogra, with an .ltsp extension? Thanks!
11:37
<ogra>
grep hosts /etc/init.d/ltsp-client-setup
11:37
;)
11:37
<alkisg>
ogra, could you please tell me if it is possible (not how it is done) for ltsp clients to use a local swap **file**? Or does it have to be a partition?
11:37
<ogra>
shoudl have told you
11:38
well, you need a mounted HDD for that
11:38
<alkisg>
I'm writing a tutorial for fellow teachers on how to install ltsp, and it'll make a difference on how many partitions I suggest them...
11:38
<ogra>
which we dont have in any way supported beyond localdev (which makes it remotely accessible)
11:39
<alkisg>
Yes, usually the clients do have a (slow - about 10Gb) hard disk
11:39
<ogra>
which are not accessible with the current implementation
11:39
hardy only supports removable tagged disks
11:40
intrepid might be different ... still in development
11:40
<alkisg>
ogra, sorry, you mean that USE_LOCAL_SWAP=YES in lts.conf doesn't do anything?
11:40
<ogra>
it uses swap partitions
11:40
<alkisg>
ah,, ok
11:40
So no big deal, I'll just tell them to create a swap partition, thanks
11:40
<ogra>
swap files need to be on a disk with filesystem ... and be mounted
11:40
right
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11:41
<alkisg>
ogra, thanks a lot.
11:41
<ogra>
:)
11:45
<gbolte>
so ogra is there a filter in wireshark that I can tell it to only show me checksum errors
11:46
<ogra>
google ? ...
11:46
there surely is
11:46
<gbolte>
:)
11:46
alright
11:46
<ogra>
but wireshark is rather advances
11:46
*advanced ...
11:46
i dont know such stuff off the top of my head
11:46
<gbolte>
wasnt sure if you had something off the top of your head when you suggested it
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11:47
<gbolte>
oh wait
11:47
nevermind
11:48
all the ones that are red have bad checksums
11:48
:/
11:48
this is not good
11:48
there are a lot of them
11:48
<ogra>
bad cable, card or misconfigured switch
11:49
<alkisg>
gbolte, I don't know the whole deal here, but wireshark gave me a lot of checksum errors on a card that did software check-summing, so no actual errors... This is documented somewhere (in man page? I don't remember), have you seen it?
11:50
<gbolte>
alkisg, I saw something somewhere saying there was a bug in wireshark at somepoint
11:51
that basically falsely reported bad checksums
11:51
not sure what version
11:51
<alkisg>
No, not a bug, it was by design (it wasn't possible to insert correct checksums)
11:51
<gbolte>
hmm
11:52
<alkisg>
http://www.wireshark.org/faq.html#q11.1
11:52
This is the one I'm talking about
11:53
(it's the other way around after all, hardware checksums are the problem)
11:55
<gbolte>
oooh
11:55
ok
11:56
<alkisg>
So I don't know what you're looking for, but maybe the checksums are irrelevant...
11:56
<dmaran>
We are seeing some odd behavior again with diskless clients with floppy drives not booting after a poweroutage. Ubx64 LTS LTSP5. It is not just one of these boxes either it is all of them. I had to disable the floppy drives this am in order for them to boot and login correctly as the login would "freeze" with a black background and a cursor but nothing else, no virt terms either.
11:57
<gbolte>
alkisg, well we have a few clients that randomly stop talking to the server
11:58
so I thought maybe bad packets could be causing it
11:58
like a poor cable run maybe
11:58
<alkisg>
gbolte, maybe you should filter based on client ip, not checksums...
11:59
<gbolte>
well after looking at it all the ones with bad checksum are comming from the server running wireshark
11:59
so...
11:59
they dont really matter
12:00
<alkisg>
Yeah, it's the same with my card...
12:03
<gbolte>
alkisg, what about out of order segments
12:03
got a few of them too
12:04
<alkisg>
gbolte, I'm no wireshark expert, just used it a little to debug ipconfig... If they're TCP I think they'll get assembled correctly though.
12:04
<gbolte>
k
12:04
:/
12:04
hmm
12:04
well I dont know then it looks like things all check out
12:05
<alkisg>
Have you tried more "manual" things, like changing the cable or switch port?
12:05
<gbolte>
yeah
12:05
we have done both
12:05
<alkisg>
and all PCs have same NICs?
12:05
<gbolte>
I am sorta dreading the possibility that the wire in the wall may be bad
12:05
:/
12:06
they are all the same onboard chipset
12:06
<alkisg>
Well, there are appliances to check cable quality...
12:06
<gbolte>
yeah we need to just get a fluke meter
12:06
but they are kinda spendy
12:06
:/
12:07
<alkisg>
Or just call a technician that has one... :)
12:07
<gbolte>
true
12:07
brb
12:07
<alkisg>
ok, bye
12:09
<gbolte>
bacl
12:09
er
12:09
back
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12:15
<randra>
i have configured ltsp4.2, and i`m migration to other machine
12:15
with too ltsp 4.2
12:15
but in other machine, showing unable to load file, file not found
12:16
i have all services configured, and the vmlinuz in /tftpboot/lts/vmlinuz-*
12:17
anyone can help-me a bit?
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12:26
<randra>
i dont need this anymore, fixed =)
12:28
<cyberorg>
randra, see? silence cures all issues :)
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12:32
<gbolte>
lol
12:32
good 1 cyberorg
12:32
<cyberorg>
hi gbolte :)
12:33
<gbolte>
hi
12:33
how are you
12:34
<cyberorg>
always good, i see you are battling network
12:36
<randra>
cyberorg hehe nice
12:38fie_wrk has quit IRC
12:41
<gbolte>
cyberorg, yeah something odd is going on/has been going on and now its just become really annoying
12:41
peoples workstations will randomly freeze
12:41
and the only way to get them back is a restart
12:42
thankfully we just have to reboot their client and not the server
12:43
<randra>
any know one good manager to ltsp clients?
12:43
<gbolte>
manager?
12:43
what do you mean
12:44fie_wr0k has joined #ltsp
12:44
<cyberorg>
randra, fl_teachertool, italc and easy-ltsp for lts.conf management
12:51
<randra>
thanks so much
12:52
symphoni
12:52
simphoni
12:52Q-FUNK has joined #ltsp
12:52
<randra>
it`s a managere too, not?
12:52
manager*
12:53dmaran has left #ltsp
12:54
<Q-FUNK>
hm
12:55
<gbolte>
hi Q-FUNK
12:55
<Q-FUNK>
hi
12:57
<cyberorg>
randra, there are kiosktool and sabayon too, depending on what you call manager :)
12:57
<randra>
humm ok
12:58
cyber i`m making tests here with nice ltsp server
12:58
and a sux ltsp cliente ( hehe )
12:58
using floppy disk to boot, and nfs to make a /
12:58
ltsp 4.2
12:58
ok...
12:59
my client boot, and open rdesktop to one M$ 2003 server
12:59
in local network, NIC 10/100
13:00
when i log with user and password, and start to use windows
13:00
the clients, almost stop
13:00
being very slowww
13:01
to open start button on windows, +- 10 secs
13:01
using vesa driver, with a sux vga card
13:01
<Guaraldo>
randra: how much RAM and video memory on TC?
13:02
<randra>
guaraldo, my tc is very sux, it my oldest machine! :D
13:02
with 64mb edu :D
13:02
and *maybe 16mb of vga
13:03
really it`s a super machine
13:03
<Guaraldo>
randra: 64MB is what the kernel 2.6 uses to boot...
13:03
<randra>
;(
13:03
<Guaraldo>
randra: Try put more 64 MB on this machine...
13:03
<randra>
what u think about use rdesktop and M$ windows 2003 ?
13:04
how much memory i need to use rdesktop
13:04
with this considerations
13:04
<Guaraldo>
randra: Here in Propus we have a client with 7 W2k3 servers serving more than 60 client each one...
13:05
<randra>
ok
13:05
here, i dont have good TC`s
13:06
i will use ltsp to boot this to use wts
13:06
and yesterday i have the same problem
13:06
and we talked in pvt
13:07
<Guaraldo>
randra: Yep...
13:08alkisg has quit IRC
13:08
<randra>
well, u've notion how much memory in each TC to use this?
13:08muh2000 has joined #ltsp
13:08
<Guaraldo>
randra: try booting kernel 2.4 of LTSP 4.2... may be better for you...
13:08
randra: no USB storage included... :-D
13:09
<ogra>
for ltsp5 you need at least 48M ram ... 64M recommended
13:09
<randra>
ogra i`m using 4.2
13:09
<ogra>
and as Guaraldo says, no extras
13:09
<randra>
and M$ client
13:10
<Guaraldo>
randra: clients with 128MB RAM can perfectly use all LTSP features...
13:10
<ogra>
well, with ltsp 4.x you are pretty much on your own nowadays, it isnt developed anymore since 3 years ... last security update was about 2 years ago
13:10
with 128M you can easily use ltsp5
13:10
but 64M should suffice
13:10
<randra>
humm thanks
13:10
<jammcq>
ogra: hey, if you go to brazil next year for fisl-10, you'll get to meet Guaraldo
13:11
<ogra>
cool !
13:11
<randra>
and randra too :D
13:11
<ogra>
i'll try to get there ;)
13:11
<jammcq>
hmm, have I met randra?
13:11
<ogra>
now that you dont clash with my release schedule anymore :)
13:11
<Guaraldo>
ogra: It will be an honor to meet ogra...
13:11
<ogra>
Guaraldo, and to meet one of our big users :)
13:12
<Guaraldo>
jammcq: I don't think so... I never met him face-to-face...
13:12
<jammcq>
ah
13:12
<ogra>
jammcq, if i can find any nice mobile task at fisl i could even make the company pay ;) brazil is pretty big in mobile linux and i finally moved teams today
13:13
<jammcq>
ah, that would be way cool
13:13
we'll need to find some sponsorship money for some of the people
13:13
dunno how much money is out there, but it seems to be getting tougher to get it
13:13
<ogra>
:(
13:15
<Guaraldo>
ogra: Hummm... maybe I can help you on this...
13:15Subhodip has quit IRC
13:16
<ogra>
lets talk again if time gets nearer then :)
13:16
<Guaraldo>
ogra: If you have a special thing to FISL (as a speaker), I can try to get ASL sponsorship to you!
13:19
<randra>
guaraldo, what is ASL ?
13:20
<Guaraldo>
randra: http://associacao.softwarelivre.org
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13:58
<ogra>
Guaraldo, well, i personally dont need sponsoring i guess, canonical can easily afford paying for me if i find a reason for them ;) what jammcq meant above is money for other people to really get a bunch of ltsp devs there
14:00
canonical wont just pay for me for ltsp anymore (they paid me full time for working on it for two years and sponsored a lot of ltsp events as well) but in my new team where i work on ubuntu mobile i can likely find a task that fits with fisl ;)
14:01
<Guaraldo>
ogra: great...
14:02
<ogra>
would be good to get an ltsp dev there from every distro that is involved :)
14:03
and have a big ltsp talk including maddog or so ... i know ltsp is big in brazil
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14:11
<Lns>
Just throwing my 2c in .. you know what would be cool, is to videotape talks like what ogra's talking about and put it up on YouTube.. does LTSP have a YouTube channel at all?
14:12
It would be a great way to collaborate and showcase the tech that goes into it
14:12
<ogra>
Lns, shouldnt be prob
14:12
*a
14:12
<laga>
also make a "free" version available - flash doesn't work too well on thin clients last i heard ;)
14:12
<ogra>
we did that at the last UDS for ubutu talks as well
14:12
http://www.youtube.com/ubuntudevelopers
14:13
<Lns>
I would be glad to help create a chan on YT and put vids up if I could get them
14:13
oh cool!
14:13
laga: flash works pretty well for me on ltsp
14:13
<ogra>
i'm not actually holing any talk, but i oranized the flash hug for dholbach :)
14:13
*organized
14:14
<Lns>
that's awesome, 24 vids
14:14
<laga>
Lns: i was mostly kidding
14:14
<Lns>
ogra: do you think it would be a good idea to have an ltsp specific chan ?
14:14
laga: ... oh. =p ok?
14:14
<laga>
Lns: but we probably all know that flash on linux sucks
14:14
<ogra>
well, if we can collect some talks that would indeed be an option
14:15
<Lns>
laga: well it's usable for me... it's definitely gotten better
14:15
<ogra>
maddogs ltsp talks are awesome
14:15
<Lns>
I've seen those
14:15
with the koolu TCs..hehe
14:15
<ogra>
yeah
14:15* Lns has a Koolu sitting at the desk in front of him
14:16
<ogra>
he always digs out these impressive numbers ... like if you have 500000 client you save this amount of megawatts in power etc :)
14:16
<jammcq>
me is hoping that we can have a panel discussion with the ltsp developers, especially those from distros, showing how a multi-distro project can actually work
14:16
<Lns>
that's awesome..and the numbers are really what matters to a lot of companies too
14:16
<jammcq>
err, that's /me :)
14:16
<ogra>
jammcq, yeah, that would be THE awesome :)
14:17
but requires a lot of sponsoring money to get them all there ... most wont have a company behing them to pay
14:17martin3z has joined #ltsp
14:17
<jammcq>
we'll figure it out
14:17
<Lns>
I have a random troubleshooting vid of LTSP on YT and it has almost 2k views...if something like that can get so many views, think of how many some actually well made vids can get =)
14:17
<jammcq>
i'm sure of it
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14:30
<martin3z>
can i make fedora 9 with ltsp 5? and how to do it simpliest?
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14:50
<randra>
Guaraldo, time to goo? friday is ending thanks god =D
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15:30
<Nubae>
whats most important is the XP officially not being supported by April 2009
15:30
Think thats wehn
15:31
a lot of people are going to be moving their legacy apps to linux... and not to vista
15:41johnny2 is now known as johnny
15:42
<johnny>
yay!
15:42Guaraldo has quit IRC
15:42
<johnny>
i can finally commit :)
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16:01
<johnny>
hmm.. now why won't this broadcom pxe implementation see my tftproot, but my virtualbox vm client will?
16:01
err tfp prefix
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16:09
<Lns>
Are there any caveats in removing network-manager*, besides obviously losing that interface for configuring interfaces?
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16:12
<Lns>
I get so many errors regarding network-manager when users log in that i'd rather just remove it.. i have static interfaces on the ltsp servers and really no need to use those facilities (i like doing it by hand)
16:15Nubae1 is now known as Nubae
16:17
<Nubae>
god you're not the only one, network-manager is nothing but a pain in the backside
16:17
<Lns>
heh
16:17* Lns is very glad he's not alone
16:17
<Nubae>
its ok for roaming on laptopts
16:18
thats about it, and even then it doesnt work properly
16:18
<Lns>
i really hate ranting...BUT NM seems to go the way of windows as far as locking the whole system when dis/re/connecting to a network
16:18
when i started seeing that...i was like "oh great. now i might as well be in windows"
16:18* Lns is gonna shut up now as to not offend anyone
16:18
<Nubae>
and seriously if you dont know how to set up the eth0 and eth1 manually, u shouldnt be running ltsp anyway, inmho
16:19
it has no place in ltsp
16:19
:-) there I said it
16:19
<Lns>
=p
16:19
<Nubae>
not the discussion but the actual app itself
16:19
<Lns>
right
16:20
<Nubae>
and anyway, dont u get asked on setup what your network card eth number is gonna be?
16:21
<Lns>
yeah...ltsp really should be an exception to not install nm
16:21
check this out..never seen it before
16:21
http://wicd.sourceforge.net/
16:21
if you really DO need a gui
16:21
looks nice..and compatible!
16:23
on to another subject - has anyone had any issues with gnome-watchdog ? I haven't yet, but have only installed it on my own server (with normally just me on it).
16:24
<Nubae>
oh, I had issues with that one...
16:24
first... where is the source code?
16:24* Lns shrugs
16:24
<Nubae>
then I noticed when installing the neverending threads it produces
16:24
for each user
16:25
Im not sure if it does more damage than good
16:25
<Lns>
isn't that necessary though?
16:25
to watch their status?
16:25
<Nubae>
I guess
16:25
<Lns>
here's the source
16:25
jerickson@Fibonacci:~$ file /usr/share/gnome-watchdog/gnome-watchdog
16:25
/usr/share/gnome-watchdog/gnome-watchdog: Bourne-Again shell script text executable
16:28
according to my syslog, things procs do get killed upon logout
16:29
s/things//
16:29
<Nubae>
so its just a script, nothing compiled?
16:29
<Lns>
doesn't look like it
16:29
seems pretty straight forward
16:29
75% of the script is checking if it's a gnome session or not (looking to see if gnome-panel is active)
16:30
<Nubae>
ok, then I guess its allright, I've not seen too much damage, I had tons of problems with firefox 3 beta 5 at the time gnome watchdog was installed
16:30
and both running together caused problems
16:30
<Lns>
hmm
16:30
but not after the final ff release?
16:30
<Nubae>
I do remember that, but that was a while back
16:30
<johnny>
hmm
16:30
don't talk too bad about nm yet
16:31
<Nubae>
nah, after that there was the memory leak fix thingy
16:31
<johnny>
.7 should be helpful, it will be at the system level
16:31
there something other than removing it that you can do
16:31
perhaps it is in /etc/xdg/autostart
16:31
<Nubae>
how and why is it needed in ltsp johnny?
16:31
<johnny>
and you can just tell it to stop
16:31
<Lns>
johnny: well there really is no reason for me to have it anyway
16:31
not on ltsp servers anyway
16:31
<dberkholz>
any of you folks encountered firefox or openoffice being horrible on an nfs homedir?
16:31
<johnny>
because more stuff is going to rely on hal and dbus to even work
16:32
aha dberkholz :)
16:32* Lns only knows of hal/dbus when they give errors
16:32
<johnny>
well you're obviously not noticing how good it is most other times then
16:32
<Lns>
:)
16:32
<johnny>
dbus rules
16:32
<Lns>
i'd like to know how it works
16:33
<Nubae>
how its interconnected with nm at least
16:33
<Lns>
any good docs out there that explain to a non-programmer?
16:33
<johnny>
well understand dbus first
16:33
there are info on why dbus is good
16:33
and if you understand why dbus is good.. then you'll understand that hal and nm are just dbus interfaces to your system
16:33elisboa has quit IRC
16:33
<Lns>
ok
16:34
<johnny>
standard dbus interaction here..
16:34
you're watching a movie
16:34
and normally a screensaver would kick in
16:34
<Nubae>
http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/dbus
16:34
<johnny>
in older distros
16:35
<Lns>
thx Nubae
16:35
<johnny>
but.. the movie player sets an inhibit signal.. and the power manager says.. oh.. they are watching a movie :)
16:35
and it won't set the screen saver
16:35
<Lns>
johnny: that is so funny..i was just thinking about that scenario the other day
16:35
<johnny>
and it's the same for network apps..
16:35
that's how evo knows that you aren't connected when checking email
16:36
or ntp knows not to ask for the time
16:36
<Nubae>
ooook... so it controls some of the gui frontend network on and off stuff
16:36
<Lns>
I guess it's just the "new" way of checking through filesystem/proc stuff?
16:36
<Nubae>
weird way of explaining but think I get it
16:36
<johnny>
and of course.. people use it for internal desktop integration too
16:37
<Lns>
johnny: probably a dumb question, but why not just look in /proc for status on that kind of thing?
16:37
at least for networking
16:37
<johnny>
if every music app .. with thier own nice and different UIs.. implemetn the same dbus signal
16:37
s
16:37
then you can have a standard "now playing" or status applet
16:37
and hit next, and it'll change it.. not matter what the player is
16:37
<Lns>
that makes sense...so a common "language" of sorts for apps to talk to each other
16:37
<johnny>
instead of coding in specific support
16:38
sure.. and the nice thing about dbus.. is that you can ask applicatiosn what methods they support
16:38
introspection..
16:38
not everything can go in /proc :)
16:38
and more and more proc stuff is going away into sysfs anyways
16:38
and cooperating with udev
16:38
next hal will be more closely tied to udev/sysfs
16:38
<Lns>
is *bsd going to use/using dbus ?
16:38
<Nubae>
was reading about upstart today
16:39
<johnny>
dbus works on bsd..
16:39
<Nubae>
how its replacing initab
16:39
<johnny>
but networkmanager doens't yet i think
16:39
i could be wrong
16:39
yeah.. there is that too Nubae good example :)
16:40* Lns likes the old way cuz it's tied more to filesystem things... i guess that's going the way of the Dodo, though
16:40
<johnny>
sure.. some of it is overengineered.. or underdeveloped.. but we're really seing a renaissance of *nix desktop usability :)
16:40
<Lns>
probably for good reason
16:40
<johnny>
give it a little bit of time to develop
16:40
Lns, then tell me why there is in /dev for net interfaces :)
16:40
<Nubae>
seems one can do a lot with upstart, like miniscripts for the startup elements
16:41
<johnny>
err no /dev
16:41
<Lns>
i wish there was! =p
16:41
<johnny>
evolve with us.. don't hold back :)
16:41
<Nubae>
instead of doing stuff through /etc/profile and that... really control what happens at the different run levels
16:41
<johnny>
well.. gentoo has a great init system now
16:41
no dbus yet tho..
16:42
gentoo has had dependency based init system as standard for ages
16:42
<Lns>
I just remember when first learning how Linux works and how it was so nice to KNOW that everything on the system was represented through files, even devices, etc
16:42
<johnny>
all POSIX sh compliant..
16:42
works on bsd and whta not
16:42
<Nubae>
So Ubuntu, Debian and Fedora use upstart right?
16:42
<johnny>
debian not sure..
16:42
<Nubae>
inittab still being used by Suse
16:42
and gentoo?
16:42
<johnny>
they probably all still populate /etc/inittab for compat reasons
16:42
i'll have to look
16:43
gentoo has named runlevels
16:43
<Nubae>
heron has no inittab no more
16:43
file does not even exist
16:43
<johnny>
aha..nice
16:43
i'll try upstart on gentoo at some point
16:43
the current system is fast enough tho
16:43
<Nubae>
it seems far more interactive
16:43
<johnny>
how fast do you get to a desktop ?
16:43
<Nubae>
fast, much faster than with inittab it is said....
16:44
<johnny>
how fast?
16:44
i know i have a full gnome session running within 50 seconds atm.
16:44
<Nubae>
u want me to time it and tell u my arch? :-)
16:44
<johnny>
on my 3 year old pc
16:44
well 4 now almost ..
16:45
1.5 pentium -m
16:45
ltsp boots super quickly
16:45
i'm at a desktop even sooner
16:45
<Nubae>
ltsp is just fast
16:45
dont know what has been done there, but its there in a flash
16:45
not even 5 seconds
16:46
<johnny>
gentoo is now in ltsp :)
16:46
and i can commit
16:46
happy days
16:46
the next tagged release will be good
16:47
dberkholz, i got agaffney to add /bin/hostname to busybox.. so now we will get proper hostnames :)
16:48
<Nubae>
Im writing up some generic ltsp documentation by ripping apart the old edubuntu classroom handbook
16:48
<johnny>
we're gonna have to rely on a prerelease genkernel tho
16:48
<Nubae>
but if u have gento specifics, send them my way please
16:48
<johnny>
Nubae, ask lns for help :)
16:48
<Lns>
hold on..phone
16:48
<johnny>
Nubae, i'll be doing that in gentoo's doc format
16:48
guidexml
16:48
<Nubae>
Id like to make a ltsp handbook
16:48
<johnny>
xslt stylesheet to match every other doc
16:48
<Nubae>
not just a edubuntu handbook
16:48
<johnny>
i will link to yours
16:48
when it is done
16:49
<Nubae>
ok cool
16:49
<johnny>
will you get it on ltsp.org ?
16:49
<Nubae>
I'll try
16:49
<johnny>
i'm sure jammq wouldn't mind
16:49
<Nubae>
there is so much ltsp stuff which is not distro specific
16:49
it really needs to be done
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16:55
<johnny>
so.. back to me
16:55
:)
16:55
anybody know why a pxe implementation wouldn't pick up the tftp prefix?
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17:12
<johnny>
ebuilds updated..
17:16alkisg has quit IRC
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18:27
<Lns>
Nubae: if you're interested, this is what i've documented for my school client - not sure if it's what you're looking for, it's mostly an overview of LTSP and how to do the most common tasks
18:28
http://logicalnetworking.net/other/UbuntuLinuxLTSPIntroductoryGuide.pdf
18:41* Lns waves goodbye to chan
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19:10
<petre>
warren, ping
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20:11
<petre>
warren, ping
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