IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 31 May 2007   (all times are UTC)

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01:41
<wf_c0d3r>
hello guys...can you help me in setting up my ltsp server using ubuntu
01:43
i just followed the instruction in the wiki page...but when connecting to the client an error appear to it pxe-32: TFTP open timeout
01:43
can you help me on this?
01:44
<sep>
wf_c0d3r, is your tftp server running and configured preoperly ?
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01:46
<wf_c0d3r>
yups but i just dont know if i have a correct setup
01:52
<sep>
wf_c0d3r, well double check it ?
02:08
<wf_c0d3r>
sep, i get the correct ip on my workstation as what i have setup to my dhcpd.conf
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02:14
<sep>
i did mean to doublecheck you tftp related config
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02:48
<Paul_UK>
hey all, got ubuntu server, ltsp is running, i have a client that pxe boots from the server and now im looking at a logon screen. questions are really. whats next? how do i add users, create a "published" desktop, etc, etc. Thanks. Sorry, probably everyone asks this question and its day 1 with ltsp
02:57
<cyberorg>
Paul_UK: create accounts on the server
02:57
all the apps and account available on the server are available on the clients
02:58
<Paul_UK>
cyberorg: yeah i guessed both of those, but is there a how-to documentation, i'm checking the wiki now and struggling on a few concepts.
02:58
like where is ltspadmin and ltspcfg
02:59
<vagrantc>
there is no ltspadmin or ltspcfg
02:59
<Paul_UK>
lol :) ok, so im definately looking at the wrong place. if someone can point me to uptodate documentation, would be great
03:00
<vagrantc>
!ubuntu
03:00
<ltspbot`>
vagrantc: "ubuntu" is a Debian based GNU/Linux distrubution that includes a Ubuntu specific version of LTSP. It can be found at http://www.ubuntulinux.org. to install ltsp on ubuntu: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/LTSPQuickInstall
03:02
<vagrantc>
Paul_UK: basically there's very little difference between an LTSP server and a desktop machine
03:02
Paul_UK: so you need to look at the ubuntu documentation for creating users, adding programs, etc.
03:03
<Paul_UK>
well i looked here : https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP?highlight=%28%28UbuntuLTSP%7CLTSPQuickInstall%29%29
03:03
and it only talks about the server and getting it working with a client.
03:04
Administrative tasks, theres no mention. Like adding users and creating the client, as you would want.
03:05
<vagrantc>
well, there's nothing LTSP specific about that, other than adding users to the fuse group if you want them to be able to use local devices
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03:07
<vagrantc>
ogra: should i merge the "controlgen" patches into mainline?
03:07
<Paul_UK>
ok, so do i download thinstation and then configure that how i want?
03:07
<vagrantc>
thinstation?
03:10
<Paul_UK>
ok, i guess what im saying is. im new to all this. i've got a server a client boots via pxe and gets a logon screen. what next? im familiar with citrix, so i know the topology of thin clients, but with ltsp im kinda lost.
03:10
<vagrantc>
Paul_UK: do you have a user on the server?
03:11
<Paul_UK>
yeah the initial one that i setup the server with. but when i log on with the client, it seems to try to get a desktop, but then i get back to the logon screen.
03:12
<vagrantc>
ogra: and thoughts on ltsp-clien-core patches ?
03:12
Paul_UK: any messages in /home/USER/.xsession-errors ?
03:14
<Paul_UK>
yeah - warning : xrdb command not found; X resources not merged
03:14
unable to start X session --- no "/home/paul/.xsession" file, no session managers, no windows managers, no terminal emulators found
03:15
<vagrantc>
that's more meaningful
03:17
so, you need to install a window manager
03:17
probably install the ubuntu-desktop metapackage
03:18
<Paul_UK>
hmm, theres no mention of that in any of the "ubuntu" docs that i have seen
03:19
<vagrantc>
did you install ubuntu server or ubuntu desktop ?
03:19
<Paul_UK>
server
03:19
<vagrantc>
an LTSP server is really more like a desktop machine
03:19
probably better to start off with ubuntu desktop
03:19
<Paul_UK>
why would i want desktop?
03:19
<vagrantc>
will work on improving all that for the next release
03:20
because an ubuntu server is essentially a "desktop" server.
03:20
it provides desktops to your think clients
03:20
thin
03:20
so the application sets it needs are more similar to a desktop install than a server install
03:20
<Paul_UK>
hmm, so shall we take from this that either a) docuementation needs to be completed so that people can get this to work i.e ubuntu server/ltsp + clients or b) ubuntu server + ltsp is broken lol
03:21
<vagrantc>
feel free to update the documentation
03:21
apparently, for you, the documentation is broken.
03:21
<Paul_UK>
well there is no documentation that i can find
03:21
the quickstart guide is just for the server.
03:23
<vagrantc>
the quickstart guide doesn't make it clear that it assumes you have a desktop environment already installed on the server
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03:25
<Paul_UK>
to be honest, frankly doesnt make much clear at all. it was quite a job actually getting the server up and running, but that doesnt have anything with ltsp. anyway im gonna try over at #edubuntu. thanks for your help, but hope you can see its frustrating when ubuntu is saying this is supported and out of the box working and it isnt.
03:25
<vagrantc>
Paul_UK: where does it say it's supported out of the box?
03:25
<Paul_UK>
on their site
03:26
<vagrantc>
where?
03:26
<Paul_UK>
im sure you asked me this before and i told you lol
03:26
<vagrantc>
in order for it to be fixed, it would be useful to know exactly what you're talking about
03:26
<Paul_UK>
well i dont think its a ltsp problem
03:27
http://www.ubuntu.com/products/WhatIsUbuntu/serveredition
03:27
Ubuntu Server edition includes thin client support using LTSP (Linux Terminal Server Project).
03:27
that to me means, if its included. Then it should be working if its installed.
03:27
<vagrantc>
ah, yes. ok.
03:28
it appears a little misleading to me, yeah.
03:28
if you want an out-of-the-box LTSP environment, at the moment, edubuntu is the way to go.
03:28
<Paul_UK>
from what I recall as well. Edubuntu edition has LTSP actually installed as part of the server install, which Ubuntu Server doesnt. To be honest, they should have had LTSP as an option, like DNS or LAMP.
03:28
<vagrantc>
it's planned for the next release
03:29
<Paul_UK>
cool. well i'll download and install edubuntu and then see how this fares
03:29
<vagrantc>
basically, grabbing the work in edubuntu and generalizing it is all that's needed.
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03:37
<Thumann>
Hi, i have two ltsp servers running, i'd like to add "load balancing" and a form of failover, so that if one server fails, they'll be able to use the other. (the dhcp server used is located on a third server)
03:37
i looked into OpenSSI but it's terribly outdated
03:38
<vagrantc>
Thumann: we await something better.
03:40
<Thumann>
vagrantc: i'm reading up on X Load Balancing on the wiki right now, is that any good?
03:41
http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/WorkInProgress#X_Load_Balancing
03:44
<vagrantc>
honestly, no idea.
03:45
<Thumann>
:) it's worth a shit
03:45
.. shot
03:45
:x
03:46
<vagrantc>
basically, i'd recommend starting simple with round-robin login servers ... and then proceed from there
03:46
round-robin tftp/NFS servers ... etc
03:47
<Thumann>
first come first serve?
03:57
<vagrantc>
Thumann: basically, yeah.
03:57
<Thumann>
which means i could/would end up with +50 users one machine and 2 users on the other
03:57
<vagrantc>
if you've got 52 users, i really doubt round-robin would distribute them that badly.
03:58
more likely the problem of 3 users on one machine and none on the other
03:59
<Thumann>
well if it's first come, first serve then aforementioned scenario could happen, no?
03:59
<vagrantc>
ok, so not first come first serve, then :P
03:59
round-robin
03:59
<Thumann>
:D describe that for me please
04:00
i'm not a native english speaker, so i'm thinking of stealing from the rich and giving to the poor
04:00
<vagrantc>
there's many ways to implement it... but the basic idea is when a client makes a request for a server, it gets a random list of servers to choose from.
04:00
<Paul_UK>
hehe thats robin hood
04:00
<Thumann>
(which kinda sounds like load balancing come to think of it)
04:00
<vagrantc>
right ...
04:00
true enough!
04:00
<Thumann>
Robin Hood, the first implementation of load balancing
04:01
<vagrantc>
Thumann: round-robin is essentially randomly selecting a server
04:01
<Thumann>
vagrantc: like described in the link i .. linked before with the x load balancing
04:01
that seemed kinda random aswell
04:01
<vagrantc>
maybe i should read the link :)
04:01
<Thumann>
o_o
04:02
slacker
04:02
:)
04:06
<vagrantc>
Thumann: ok ... so having read that ... the concepts are all there.
04:06
Thumann: if you're using LTSP there's more work to do to get it set up, but the idea's the same.
04:07
<Thumann>
vagrantc: aren't "they"(the link) using ltsp?
04:07
<vagrantc>
oops
04:07
LTSP 5
04:08
i'm pretty sure those patches are for ltsp 4.something
04:08
<Thumann>
which is bad?
04:08
<vagrantc>
it's different
04:08
<Thumann>
as in bad?
04:08
<vagrantc>
as in different
04:08* Thumann smiles
04:08
<vagrantc>
you won't be able to follow the instructions exactly
04:09
you would have to adapt the idea
04:09
<Thumann>
couldn't i just use v4 ?
04:10
<vagrantc>
if you would rather
04:10
i can't stop you from doing anything :P
04:11
<Thumann>
well since i dont know what the difference is
04:11
<vagrantc>
it would be more help to the community to figure out how to get the current version of LTSP working than using older versions.
04:11
<Thumann>
true
04:11
though this is due on tuesday
04:11
:o
04:12
<vagrantc>
well, it's a little late to start anyways :P
04:12
good luck :P
04:12
<Thumann>
>_<
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05:35
<ogra>
jammcq, vagrantc, https://code.launchpad.net/~ltsp-drivers/ltsp/mainline :)
05:36
vagrantc, now all ltsp-drivers have mainline commit rights
05:37
i'll obsolete my old mainline branch and we'll move to that one
05:37
<vagrantc>
people gotta be very careful with push/pull not to destroy history
05:37
<ogra>
right
05:37
<vagrantc>
that's my number 1 complaint about bzr right now
05:37
that and no gpg signatures
05:38
<ogra>
well, currently ltsp-drivers are only us four
05:38
<vagrantc>
well, no useful way to use gpg signatures
05:38
<ogra>
you, me, scottie and jim
05:40
<vagrantc>
when i reported the bug, i got the response "it looses history by design!"
05:40
some VCS
05:40
<ogra>
heh
05:41
<vagrantc>
don't know if any of the other distributed VCS's do any better with that. the nature of distributed vcs makes it hard to sanely preserv history
05:45
<ogra>
vagrantc, if you go to the LP page of the branch do you get a note about the upload url ?
05:46
(while being logged in)
05:49* vagrantc was on an olive break
05:50
<vagrantc>
gah.
05:50
i need to find a login page that iceweasel remembers.
05:53
ogra: yeah, i get an upload url
05:53
<ogra>
yay, great
05:53
then i can obsolete my old mainline branch
05:54
and you can commit as you like ;)
05:54
<cliebow_>
ogra:should i keep an eye out for the position you spoke of yesterday??
05:54
<ogra>
(yes to both questions from the backlog btw)
05:54
cliebow_, i'll notify you
05:54* vagrantc forgets which questions
05:54
<ogra>
<vagrantc> ogra: should i merge the "controlgen" patches into mainline?
05:55
<vagrantc> ogra: and thoughts on ltsp-clien-core patches ?
05:55
<cliebow_>
cool!!
05:55
<ogra>
vagrantc, and if you like the direct_x stuff
05:58
<vagrantc>
i think the directx stuff definitely goes in
06:00
<ogra>
yeah
06:01
<vagrantc>
so i helped crash someone's vista laptop by letting them try ubuntu feisty today
06:02
ogra: autologin and LDM_SERVER too ?
06:06
<ogra>
i dont feel like wanting autologin yet
06:07
also lets not add to much stuff to ldm now that scottie is rewriting the wrapper
06:07
<vagrantc>
hrm,
06:07
<ogra>
all that needs to be ported
06:08
<vagrantc>
LDM_SERVER is a one-liner
06:08
<ogra>
in C as well ?
06:08
<vagrantc>
no idea
06:08
<ogra>
:)
06:09
add it for now
06:09
<vagrantc>
but it will be required to support an alternate server to implement the load balancing stuff
06:09
<ogra>
reight
06:09
but it will need extra C code ...
06:09
we need to keep that in mind
06:10
<vagrantc>
it can't be that bad.
06:10
<ogra>
nah
06:10
<vagrantc>
more complicated stuff, sure.
06:10
<ogra>
but i want to see a working C ldm first ... before we clutter it with features
06:11* ogra goes for coffee
06:11
<vagrantc>
while i know it was scottie's pet project, it seemed like the password expiry really was an extra feature ...
06:12
has he published code for the ldm c rewrite yet?
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06:15
<vagrantc>
ogra: well, i was seemingly able to commit
06:23
<highvoltage>
vagrantc: here's an archive of the page I wanted to show you: http://web.archive.org/web/20060513022941/http://www.funroll-loops.org/
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06:28
<daya>
I am getting nfs over tcp failed, any idea,
06:29
what is that's error,
06:31
<vagrantc>
what linux distro?
06:31
<daya>
vagrantc, debian
06:32
<vagrantc>
etch ?
06:32
<daya>
vagrantc, yes
06:32
<vagrantc>
installed with ltsp-server, or ltsp-utils ?
06:32
dpkg -l '*ltsp*'
06:32
<daya>
ltsp-server, ltsp-build-client
06:33
root@basanta:~# dpkg -l | grep ltsp
06:33
ii ltsp-server 0.99debian11 Basic LTSP server environment
06:33
ii ltsp-server-standalone 0.99debian11 Complete LTSP server environment
06:33
<vagrantc>
ok.
06:34
so, it boots, downloads the kernel and initramfs image ... and then your error?
06:34
<daya>
yes,
06:35
<vagrantc>
could you type the error exactly ?
06:42
<daya>
vagrantc, NFS over TCP not available from <IP>
06:43
<vagrantc>
ok...
06:44
daya: ok... as root, try: exportfs -va
06:45
well ...
06:45
grep ltsp /etc/exports
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06:48
<jammcq>
sounds to me like he's got the wrong NFS installed
06:48
on the server
06:48
<vagrantc>
like the user one?
06:48
<jammcq>
could be
06:48
or NFS v2
06:48
if that's even a package
06:48
<vagrantc>
if it's really etch
06:49
daya: dpkg -l nfs-kernel-server
06:49
or better yet, dpkg -l 'nfs-*-server'
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06:55
<daya>
vagrantc, ii nfs-kernel-server 1.0.10-6 Kernel NFS server support
06:55
un nfs-user-server <none>
06:56
vagrantc, exportfs -va
06:56
exporting *:/opt/ltsp/i386
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07:02
<vagrantc>
grep ltsp /etc/exports
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07:06
<daya>
root@basanta:~# cat /etc/exports | grep ltsp
07:06
/opt/ltsp/i386 *(ro,no_root_squash,async,subtree_check)
07:06
root@basanta:~#
07:07
<vagrantc>
you could/should drop the i386 part, but that probably won't fix your problem ...
07:07
daya: so ...
07:07
daya: can you paste your /etc/dhcp3/dhcpd.conf to the pastebot ?
07:07
!pastebot
07:07
<ltspbot`>
vagrantc: "pastebot" is The LTSP pastebot is at http://pastebot.ltsp.org. Please paste all text longer than a line or two to the pastebot, as it helps to reduce traffic in the channel. A link to the content will be pasted in the channel.
07:08
<daya>
ok
07:09
<ltsppbot>
"daya" pasted "authoritative; subnet 192.168." (21 lines) at http://pastebot.ltsp.org/151
07:09
<daya>
vagrantc, did u get it
07:10
<vagrantc>
yeah, let me look at it a bit
07:10
<daya>
ok
07:10
<vagrantc>
probably want to comment out the example.com line :P
07:11
so ... 192.168.2.3 is the IP address of your nfs server ?
07:11
<daya>
yes
07:12
<vagrantc>
ok ... mount -o ro,tcp,nolock 192.168.2.3:/opt/ltsp/i386 /mnt
07:13
<ogra>
vagrantc, https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/ltsp/gutsy-ltsp
07:13
thats the gutsy branch, once you have commit rights to ubuntu-core-dev you can use that one as well
07:14
<daya>
mount -o ro,tcp,nolock 192.168.2.3:/opt/ltsp/i386 /mnt
07:14
mount to NFS server '192.168.2.3' failed: possible invalid protocol.
07:14
mount 192.168.2.3:/opt/ltsp/i386 /mnt/
07:14
but 2nd succeed
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07:16
<vagrantc>
daya: you haven't somehow installed some other nfs server on your machine?
07:16
<daya>
vagrantc, oh sorry,
07:17
vagrantc, no I think I have done all,
07:17
vagrantc, root@nepalinux:~# dpkg -l | grep nfs
07:17
rc libnfsidmap1 0.16-3 An nfs idmapping library
07:17
ii libnfsidmap2 0.18-0 An nfs idmapping library
07:17
ii nfs-common 1.0.10-6 NFS support files common to client and serve
07:17
ii nfs-kernel-server 1.0.10-6 Kernel NFS server support
07:17
root@nepalinux:~#
07:18
<vagrantc>
looks fine to me
07:18
i'm pretty stumped.
07:19
<ogra>
you donmt need to give tcp as option
07:19
<daya>
vagrantc, I finally dorp to (initrmfs) in client
07:19
<vagrantc>
ogra: klibc doesn't support udp nfs mounts
07:19
<ogra>
recent nfs-kernel-server will default to it anyway and initramfs nfsmount doesnt know better than iusing tcp
07:20
vagrantc, right, but everything defaults to tcp anway
07:20
and the right option is proto=tcp iirc
07:20
so that might produce the error above
07:21
<vagrantc>
but the error is: NFS over TCP not available from <IP>
07:21
<daya>
ogra, How to slove it then,
07:21
<ogra>
weird
07:21
anything weird in /etc/defaults ? did you tweak any values in there ?
07:22
(like trying to switch to nfs v4 or something ?)
07:22
<daya>
let me check
07:24
I didn't get the as such the version, option ,
07:24
/etc/defaults/nfs-kernel-server, and nfs-common
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07:28
<yopla>
Hello channel!
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07:29
<yopla>
trying to ltsp-build-client --dist sid --arch i386
07:30
<vagrantc>
yopla: on a sid system ?
07:31
<yopla>
yes
07:31
<vagrantc>
how's it going?
07:31
<yopla>
but I have an error on mount /proc
07:32
<vagrantc>
could you paste the error exactly ?
07:32
<yopla>
Ok I'll give a try
07:32
<vagrantc>
cut-and-paste, if at all possible
07:32
<yopla>
my console seems stuck for now
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07:37
<ogra>
dont install to an unclean target
07:37
<yopla>
Ho
07:37
it doesn't delete files?
07:38
<ogra>
rm -rf /opt/ltsp/i386 && ltsp-build-client
07:38jammcq has joined #ltsp
07:38* vagrantc prefers mv /opt/ltsp/i386 /opt/ltsp/i386.borked
07:38
<ogra>
in ubuntu it stops and tells you to clean up first, that should also be in the next sid package
07:38
(unless vagrantc dropped it during merge :) )
07:38
<vagrantc>
ogra: yeah, i had to fight with that while testing so it didn't re-download packages every time :)
07:39
that's probably proper behavior.
07:39
<yopla>
OK now i've got a ssh console :-)
07:39
<vagrantc>
yopla: ?
07:39
<ogra>
?
07:39
<yopla>
my console was stucked
07:41
Hummm, strange operation seems working now...
07:42
I suspect my local sid mirror wasn't really synced
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07:42
<vagrantc>
sid could, in fact, be broken at the moment
07:43
i know debian-live hasn't been able to use sid for weeks now
07:43
<yopla>
ouch
07:43
<ogra>
https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/gutsy-changes/2007-May/002482.html there we go
07:43
gutsy is open :)
07:44
<yopla>
does ltsp works in feisty?
07:45
<ogra>
sure
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07:45
<ogra>
its the best ltsp we have :)
07:45
<yopla>
lol
07:45
<ogra>
but the next upload to sid should have all features as well
07:45
<vagrantc>
ogra: you uploaded a package simply to change the distro ? :P
07:46
<yopla>
do you konw a way to install it quickly as a xen domU host?
07:46
<vagrantc>
ogra: you couldn't have included *some* bugfix or something ?
07:46
<ogra>
vagrantc, yes, else my CD builds will fail
07:46
<vagrantc>
ogra: why not use lsb_release ?
07:46
ogra: like we do in debian
07:46
:)
07:46
<ogra>
vagrantc, thats a traditional thing that my first upload has only this change :)
07:46
vagrantc, for 000-baseconfig ?
07:46
<vagrantc>
ogra: yes
07:47
ogra: take a look
07:47
<ogra>
since when ?
07:47
<vagrantc>
ogra: over a year now
07:47
<ogra>
why didnt tell me anyone ?
07:47
<vagrantc>
it was going to be one of the first things i changed :P
07:47
i just reviewed the Ubuntu plugins to see what we should grab for debian today.
07:48
i keep forgetting to mention using lsb_release to set DIST
07:48
<yopla>
yeah! lts client correctly installed :-)
07:48
<ogra>
vagrantc, i'll change that immediately
07:48
vagrantc, that could become common stuff
07:49
<vagrantc>
yeah, probably
07:49
<ogra>
even though thats only one var
07:49
the rest is dpkg/apt depending
07:50
<vagrantc>
yeah, with the controlgen stuff working, we can just have EARLY_PACKAGES=${EARLY_PACKAGES:-"ltsp-client"}
07:50
MIRROR still differs ...
07:51tiagovaz has joined #ltsp
07:51
<vagrantc>
i'll think a lot about how we can merge more of the plugins
07:52
<Gadi>
morning, guys. does anyone know if there is a way I can tell mkinitramfs to pull in other binaries/dpkgs when it generates the image?
07:52
<vagrantc>
Gadi: yes :)
07:53
<yopla>
what script does generate tftp ltsp tree?
07:53
<Gadi>
care to share with the class, vagrantc?
07:53
<vagrantc>
Gadi: look in /usr/share/initramfs-tools/hooks/*
07:53
Gadi: you probably want to make use of the copy_exec function
07:54
<Gadi>
ah, so thats the diff between hooks and scripts
07:54
got it
07:54* Gadi hands vagrantc an olive
07:54
<ogra>
Gadi, in ubuntu a very good example is to look at all udev scripts in /usr/share/initramfs-tools to get a good overview
07:54
<vagrantc>
Gadi: if you make it a package, put it there. otherwise, stick it in /etc/initramfs-tools/hooks
07:55
<Gadi>
right
07:55
<vagrantc>
Gadi: oh, i've had plenty of olives today
07:55
<daya>
vagrantc, in my another testing syste, xdmcp is not running, what should I do,
07:56
<vagrantc>
daya: LTSP 5 doesn't use xdmcp by default
07:56
<daya>
vagrantc, oh,
07:56
<vagrantc>
you do need sshd running, though
07:57
<ogra>
well, soon we'll likely get rid of XDMCP completely
07:57
<daya>
ogra, :)
07:57
ogra, nice
07:57
<ogra>
or do we have any reason to support it
07:57
?
07:57
now with LDM_DIRECTX :)
07:58
<daya>
no, but I am testing ltsp 5. on my system
07:58
now this time I am trying through the tar ball
07:58
image
08:04
<vagrantc>
ogra: i really doubt if you'll see xdmcp die completely.
08:05
<ogra>
but support from our side for it will
08:05
or do you plan to add features for XDMCP ?
08:06
<vagrantc>
no plans on my part.
08:06
gladly leave someone else to maintain the "startx" script.
08:06
<ogra>
se should probably switch the startx script to call ldm with LDM_DIRECTX
08:06
<vagrantc>
no.
08:06
just no.
08:07
leave it alone, and recommend the alternative. let people decide for themselves.
08:07
<ogra>
well
08:07
<daya>
vagrantc, any idea root@nepalinux:~# ltsp-update-sshkeys
08:07
/usr/local/sbin/ltsp-update-sshkeys: line 5: ip: command not found
08:07
about it,
08:07
<ogra>
its way more insecure than direct_x
08:07Skarmeth has joined #ltsp
08:08
<daya>
vagrantc, here i am using tar ball, for installing and mainiting ltsp
08:08
<vagrantc>
ogra: i can't think of reasons at the moment, but i am sure there are advantages to xdmcp, and i don't presume to claim we've entirely obsoleted it.
08:08
daya: do you have the ltsp-server package installed?
08:08nobios has joined #ltsp
08:09
<daya>
I am using tar ball , that I have extracted in /opt directory
08:09
<yopla>
arg! my first ltsp client kernel panics
08:09
<ogra>
well, apparently the iproute package is missing in your install (i thought that was essential even in debian)
08:10
<vagrantc>
daya: i know you're using the tarball, but do you have the ltsp-server package installed ? you'll want to have all of it's dependencies met.
08:12
<daya>
vagrantc, sorry I don't get u for the first time, I have already installed tftpd-hpa, dhcp3, and nfs
08:13
<vagrantc>
daya: you may as well install ltsp-server, even if using the tarball.
08:13
<ogra>
yeah, that makes sure the deps for the scripts are there
08:13
<vagrantc>
daya: that will pull in all the needed dependencies
08:14
<daya>
vagrantc, ok
08:14
<yopla>
ipconfig: eth0: SIOCGIFISINDEX: No such device
08:14
then kernel panic
08:15* vagrantc wonders why everything is broken today
08:15
<ogra>
yopla, looks like you have an unsupported NIC in the client or force a driver on it thats not working for that card
08:15
<yopla>
I think so :/
08:16
this is a cheap marvell yukon on a cheap laptop
08:16
<ogra>
which distro ?
08:16
<vagrantc>
yopla: is it a built-in network card ?
08:16
<yopla>
orga: distro sid
08:17
<ogra>
hmm, then vagrant is your man
08:17* vagrantc hasn't actually done any sid installs since etch was released
08:17
<yopla>
vargantc: duno... I know that it's recognized in 2.6.20
08:18
<ogra>
yopla, for a test you could try the feisty tarball
08:18
<vagrantc>
yopla: yes, but is it a card you insert into the laptop, like a PCMCIA or USB card?
08:18
<ogra>
it uses 2.6.20
08:18
<vagrantc>
yopla: or is it built into the laptop case?
08:18
<yopla>
orga: nope now it's 2.6.21
08:19
<vagrantc>
yopla: and is it wireless?
08:19
<yopla>
vargantc: it's onboard ethernet card
08:19
<ogra>
yopla, feisty doesnt use 2.6.21
08:19
<yopla>
orga: I'm on sid
08:19Gadi has left #ltsp
08:19
<ogra>
<ogra> yopla, for a test you could try the feisty tarball
08:19
<ogra> it uses 2.6.20
08:19
<yopla>
ok
08:20
is it possible to ltsp-client-build feisty with sid package?
08:20
<ogra>
just move the sid ltsp chroot out of the way, and untar the feisty tarball in /opt/ltsp
08:20
<vagrantc>
ogra: if your debootstrap supports feisty
08:20
<ogra>
nobios, thats not possible
08:20
s/nobios/no/
08:21
<vagrantc>
well, you'll probably run into other problems. just use the tarball
08:21
<yopla>
Ok
08:21
where to get it?
08:21
<ogra>
!download
08:21
<ltspbot`>
ogra: "download" is http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/DownLoads
08:21
<vagrantc>
!tarball
08:21
<ltspbot`>
vagrantc: "tarball" is http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/Ltsp5TarballInstructions
08:22* ogra hopes that thing is fianlly updated to the final release
08:22
<yopla>
orga ltsbot: tahnks a lot
08:22
<vagrantc>
ogra: i'm guessing it hasn't been
08:22
<ogra>
the pre release boots half as fast (about 20secs slower)...
08:22
vagrantc, well, i asked jammcq weekly to update it since the release
08:23
<vagrantc>
ogra: me too. pesky upstream.
08:23
<ogra>
slackers
08:24
<daya>
vagrantc, one simple question
08:24
vagrantc, :D
08:25
<vagrantc>
ogra: i even "backported" ltsp 0.99debian12 and ltsp for etch for jammcq to update the chroot.
08:26
<daya>
vagrantc, which dhcp file is used by ltsp
08:26
<vagrantc>
with dhcp3-server ... /etc/dhcp3/dhcpd.conf
08:26
you can add an "include" line to in to point to /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf if you want.
08:28
<daya>
and what about that is included with ltsp
08:30
<ogra>
/etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf is included in ltsp ... but it doesnt matter which opne you use
08:30
there should be an example file in /usr/share/doc/ltsp-server/examples/
08:31
<vagrantc>
ogra: ok ... so you said mdz is objecting to server-side code ... what about an ldm-server metapackage ?
08:31
ogra: because there are actually some things it would be nice to handle dependency wise.
08:31
<ogra>
vagrantc, btw you will get massive problems with ltsp-manager and the dhcp.conf location, python-ltsp doesnt and will never touch /etc/dhcp3-server/
08:32
vagrantc, agreed, at least for ldminfod
08:32
but that should be the ldminfopd package rather :)
08:32
<vagrantc>
ogra: yes, but also dependency on x11-common and other stuff
08:32
<ogra>
what for a dep on x11-common ?
08:32
<vagrantc>
/etc/X11/Xsession
08:32
<ogra>
ah, right, i thought because of Xsession.d
08:33
(which i want us to not touch anymore)
08:33
<vagrantc>
because that's what LDM uses to start the user's session
08:33
<ogra>
i'd prefer to have that solved on the client side
08:33
<vagrantc>
so we re-implement Xsession client-side ?
08:33
<ogra>
like having a list of possible paths to iterate over
08:34
<vagrantc>
that's not what i'm talking about
08:34
<ogra>
for the known distros at least
08:34
and a fallback to xterm or so
08:34
<vagrantc>
you need a dependency on whatever pulls in the Xsession stuff
08:34
<ogra>
no
08:34
you need to be able to find something you can execute in X
08:35
<vagrantc>
you'd rather use documentation over dependency resolution?
08:35
<ogra>
nobios, i'd rather use a sane fallback
08:35
<vagrantc>
what if there is not one single X program installed on the server?
08:35
<ogra>
s/nobios/no/
08:35
<vagrantc>
there is no sane fallback.
08:35
<ogra>
we'll throw an error "please install a desktop session on your server"
08:36
<vagrantc>
that's assinine.
08:36
<ogra>
we have full communication now with scotties changes there is no need for server side stuff if we can solve it cleaner via a direct link
08:36
and better automated as well
08:36
and distro agnostic
08:37
<vagrantc>
have you looked at what Xsession actually does?
08:37
<ogra>
i dont care
08:37
<vagrantc>
to re-implement that client-side would be insane.
08:37
<nobios>
ogra: that why I changed , to . on auto completing nicknames :)
08:37
<ogra>
i never said anything about re-implementing
08:37
<vagrantc>
ogra: it handles a lot of things many programs expect to be working.
08:37
yes, let's just introduce hundreds of bugs.
08:37
<ogra>
right thats why we should use the distros Xsession if its available
08:38
??
08:38
<vagrantc>
much saner than re-implementing everything.
08:38
<ogra>
whats so problematic with adding one single case condition to the code ?
08:38
i really dont understand your problem here
08:39
<vagrantc>
i think we're talking about different things.
08:39
<ogra>
no
08:40
i dont think so
08:40
<vagrantc>
well i do.
08:40
:P
08:41
<ogra>
i want to have a runtime test that immediately tells the admin to install a desktop session independently of distro or any other stuff, you want to have that solved through deps by adding extra server sided packages instead
08:41
<vagrantc>
when LDM logs a user in, it needs to run something...
08:41
<ogra>
and if it cant is should advise the admin what to do
08:42bronze has quit IRC
08:42
<ogra>
i'm fine with making X11-common an ltsp-server-standalone dep ... but not with adding extra packages just for that
08:42
<vagrantc>
i'd rather move it out of ltsp-server-standalone
08:42
or ...
08:42
no
08:42
fine in standalone
08:43
<ogra>
especially since that wont solve any of the probs we have with the tarballs
08:43
<yopla>
ouch
08:43
same trouble
08:43bronze has joined #ltsp
08:43
<ogra>
the tarball stuff can only be solved client side and scotties wrapper will give us all we need to do *everything* only via the client side if we want to
08:44
<vagrantc>
yopla: your NFS server is messed up.
08:44
ogra: yeah, i don't object to that.
08:44
ogra: but why shift to documentation what could *easily* be handled by dependencies?
08:44
<yopla>
orga: no, I think my pxe kernel is wrong
08:44
<ogra>
it will only be handled for us
08:45
but not for speial setups and other distros
08:45
<vagrantc>
ogra: that doesn't mean we can't implement the additional error checking you're suggesting
08:45
<ogra>
i think both is tha way to go
08:45
<yopla>
orga: is there a way to dmesg the client?
08:45
<vagrantc>
ogra: both ... as in an ldm-server plus additional client-side error checking?
08:45
<ogra>
yopla, once it is running it will write to the servers syslog
08:46
vagrantc, both as in ltsp-server-standalone and error checking ;)
08:46
<vagrantc>
ogra: bah.
08:46
<ogra>
i want to see more content first before we introduce an ldm-server package
08:47
just for a dependency its not worth to maintain an extra package
08:47
<vagrantc>
but you refuse to accept any more content :P
08:47
<ogra>
no i push for implementing it on the client side :)
08:47
<vagrantc>
how do you implement ldm-server dependencies client-side ?
08:47
<ogra>
(where easily< possible at least)
08:47
not at all
08:48
but for that one dep we can use -standalone
08:48
<vagrantc>
so, how would you suggest installing additional ldm servers in a load-balanced environment?
08:48
install ltsp-server-standalone on all of them?
08:48
<ogra>
not at all ?
08:48
apt-get install openssh-server ?
08:49
<vagrantc>
apt-get install openssh-server x11-common *buntu-desktop ....
08:49
?
08:49
<ogra>
didnt our first implementation only talk about an admin maintained list ?
08:49
*buntu-desktop includes x11-common
08:50
if we need server sided code for loadbalancing at some point, i'm fine introducing ldm-server for that if that helps in any way
08:50
but the first implementation wont need that
08:51
<vagrantc>
hrm. ubuntu-desktop depends on gdm ...
08:51
<ogra>
right
08:51
which is fine
08:52
the desktop packages in debian dont depend on x11-common ?
08:52
not even indirectly ?
08:52
<vagrantc>
no, but it pulls in a lot of stuff completely uneccesary to an ldm server
08:53
<ogra>
??
08:53
<vagrantc>
for example, gdm
08:53
<ogra>
it pulls in a desktop environment
08:53
yes, you need gdm if you want to log in graphically
08:53
you know ?
08:55
<vagrantc>
you sure don't if you're logging in via LDM, do you?
08:55
<ogra>
but if i log in on the server
08:55
<daya>
I have these line in dhcpd.conf file ,tftfilename "/ltsp/i386/pxelinux.0 , option root-path "/opt/ltsp/i386,
08:56
<ogra>
daya, looks good
08:56
<daya>
I says tftp file not found in client , where should exactly I check
08:56
<ogra>
did you run ltsp-update-kernels ?
08:57
<daya>
ogra, yes,
08:57
<ogra>
it copies the kernels to /var/lib/tftpboot
08:57
which is what the tftp client sees as /
08:57
<daya>
root@nepalinux:boot# ltsp-update-kernels
08:57
Skipping invalid chroot: /opt/ltsp/pkg_cache
08:57
Skipping invalid chroot: /opt/ltsp/data
08:57
Updating /var/lib/tftpboot directories for chroot: /opt/ltsp/i386
08:58
<ogra>
so do you have an ltsp dir in there ?
08:58
and an i386 dir below
08:59
<daya>
yes,
08:59
root@nepalinux:i386# ls
08:59
System.map-2.6.18-4-486 initrd.img nbi.img pxelinux.0 vmlinuz
08:59
config-2.6.18-4-486 initrd.img-2.6.18-4-486 nbi.img-2.6.18-4-486 pxelinux.cfg vmlinuz-2.6.18-4-486
09:00
<ogra>
looks ok
09:00
did you tweak your /etc/inetd.conf somehow ?
09:00
<vagrantc>
ogra: i guess i'm thinking more like a server administrator with a rack-mount of ldm servers, where having GDM on the system would be a detriment rather than an asset.
09:00
<ogra>
there should be a line like: tftp dgram udp wait root /usr/sbin/in.tftpd /usr/sbin/in.tftpd -s /var/lib/tftpboot
09:00
in 7etc/inetd.conf
09:01
<yopla>
can I use a standard vmlinuz in tftp tree?
09:01
<daya>
I have done nothing in inetd.conf file
09:01
<vagrantc>
yopla: it is a standard vmlinuz
09:02
<yopla>
Ok, i'll try another one then
09:02
<ogra>
daya, check that the line matches
09:02
<daya>
tftp dgram udp wait root /usr/sbin/in.tftpd /usr/sbin/in.tftpd -s /var/lib/tftpboot
09:02
<ogra>
ok, looks fine
09:03
daya, are you sure there is no other dhcp server in your network ?
09:03
<daya>
ogra, still getting same error
09:04
yes , no other dhcp server running
09:06
<vagrantc>
yopla: or ... what do you mean by standard vmlinuz ... by default it uses the standard debian kernel and initramfs image
09:07
yopla: the initramfs is generated to do network boot
09:07irule has joined #ltsp
09:07
<daya>
now my client system hangs in this step:
09:08
TFTP Prefix:/ltsp/i386
09:08
Trying to load:pxelinux.cfg/01-00....................
09:08sbalneav has joined #ltsp
09:08
<ogra>
!s
09:08
<ltspbot`>
ogra: "s" is Scotty!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
09:08
<sbalneav>
Morning!!!
09:08SBNet has joined #ltsp
09:09
<daya>
root@nepalinux:init.d# ps -aux | grep tftp
09:09
Warning: bad ps syntax, perhaps a bogus '-'? See http://procps.sf.net/faq.html
09:09
root 10254 0.0 0.1 2104 624 ? Ss 19:29 0:00 /usr/sbin/in.tftpd -s /var/lib/tftpboot
09:10
<ogra>
thats bad
09:10
<vagrantc>
heh
09:10
dpkg -l '*tftp*'
09:10
<ogra>
it should be started by inetd (which is the default)
09:10
<vagrantc>
daya: dpkg -l '*tftp*'
09:11
<ogra>
(or are there tftpd packages not defaulting to inetd ?? i wouldnt know any)
09:11
<daya>
vagrantc, root@nepalinux:init.d# dpkg -l | grep *tftp*
09:11
ii tftpd-hpa 0.43-1.1 HPA's tftp server
09:11
root@nepalinux:init.d#
09:11
<vagrantc>
defaul for tftpd-hpa is to run from inetd ...
09:12
<daya>
root@nepalinux:init.d# cat /etc/default/tftpd-hpa
09:12
#Defaults for tftpd-hpa
09:12
RUN_DAEMON="yes"
09:12
OPTIONS="-l -s /var/lib/tftpboot"
09:12
do i have done something wrong
09:13
<vagrantc>
apt-get --purge remove tftpd-hpa ; ap-get install ltsp-server tftpd-hpa
09:13
<daya>
vagrantc, I have already installed ltsp-server, when u told me earlier
09:14
ok I will reinstall tftpd-hpa,
09:14
<vagrantc>
if you remove tftpd-hpa, it will remove ltsp-server
09:14
<daya>
oh,
09:18
tftpd-hpa can be started by the inetd superserver or as a daemon and handle incoming connections by itself. The │
09:18
│ latter is only recommended for very high usage servers. │
09:18
│ │
09:18
│ Should the server be started by inetd?
09:18
sorry ,
09:18
<vagrantc>
go with the default.
09:18
<daya>
ok
09:18
root@nepalinux:init.d# ./tftpd-hpa restart
09:18
tftpd-hpa disabled in /etc/default/tftpd-hpa
09:19
what should I do
09:19
<ogra>
nothing
09:19
be happy and boot a client
09:19
<daya>
ogra, hi
09:19
<ogra>
the above is what you wanted
09:20
<daya>
ogra, but this time I got tftp time out, and client just hangs
09:21
<ogra>
make sure your inetd is running
09:21
<vagrantc>
bzr st
09:21
<ogra>
(ltsp-server should have pulled in openbsd-inetd)
09:21
<daya>
root@nepalinux:init.d# ps -aux | grep inetd
09:21
Warning: bad ps syntax, perhaps a bogus '-'? See http://procps.sf.net/faq.html
09:21
root 8915 0.0 0.1 1780 588 ? Ss 19:02 0:00 /usr/sbin/inetd
09:22
<vagrantc>
daya: see that warning? that has nothing to do with LTSP. but you should listen and drop the - from your ps commands.
09:23
<ogra>
yeah, saves a line in pastes :)
09:24
<daya>
vagrantc, o,k :)
09:24
:D
09:24
what is the soultion then, I am feeling late to go to my home, from my off.
09:25
<ogra>
bah, crap, gnome-power-manager dropped all hal code ... none of my ltsp patches apply :(
09:25
vagrantc, btw, its probably good to get at least some of them into debian
09:26
the nautilus and gnome-vfs patches as well as the powermanagement ones
09:27
<vagrantc>
ogra: are there any bugs filed?
09:27* vagrantc suspects it won't happen without bugs
09:27
<ogra>
i dont think so
09:28
<vagrantc>
ogra: didn't some of those patches get included upstream?
09:28
<ogra>
some went upstream with the latest gnome though
09:28
but even sid is far behind on gnome
09:29
<daya>
I got this in my client system PXE-E32-TFTP open timeout , feeling too tired of the error
09:31boxrock has joined #ltsp
09:32
<daya>
ogra, vagrantc any way thanks for the help,
09:32lambda has joined #ltsp
09:32
<daya>
ogra, vagrantc bye
09:33
<boxrock>
can anyone tell me why my thin-client x term hangs after a while esp. at higher resolutions?
09:34
<ogra>
boxrock, ram usually
09:34
<boxrock>
bad memory , on server?
09:35tiagovaz has quit IRC
09:36daya has quit IRC
09:36
<ogra>
boxrock, not enough ram on the client ... do you have any kind of network swapping enabled ?
09:39
<boxrock>
ogra, i used a stock 7.04 config
09:39
<ogra>
that should have given you NBD_SWAP ...
09:40
so how much ram do your clients have ?
09:40boxrock has quit IRC
09:42boxrock has joined #ltsp
09:42nobios has left #ltsp
09:44
<boxrock>
ogra: my client crashed, if you responded after my last msg i missed it. thx
09:46
<ogra>
so how much ram do your clients have ?
09:50
<boxrock>
it could be as low as 128m
09:50
<ogra>
hmm, 128 should be fine
09:50
even without swap
09:51* highvoltage has never seen a thin client even using half of that
09:53
<ogra>
well, with many local devices you would eat some ram
09:53
<vagrantc>
*many*
09:53
<highvoltage>
oh yes
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09:53
<vagrantc>
ogra: can't we start cdpinger from udev ?
09:55boxrock has quit IRC
09:55
<ogra>
we could, does that make any difference ?
09:56
<vagrantc>
well, if a cd gets inserted after the ltsp-client init scripts run ...
09:56
er, installed
09:56
<ogra>
right
09:56
but you need to catch it on boot as well
09:57boxrock has joined #ltsp
09:57
<vagrantc>
ah well. just a passing though.
09:57
t
09:57
<ogra>
cdpinger is only to work around the fact that its not possible to monitor the CDrom
09:57
from the kernel
09:58
<vagrantc>
our current scripts only run it if the devices are present during the init script run ...
09:59
<ogra>
right
09:59
given that udev cant handle more than one /dev/cdrom thats fine for preinstalled CDroms
10:02boxrock has quit IRC
10:03
<ogra>
vagrantc, feel free to change it if it doesnt stop working saving ram on non-cdrom clients is always helpful :)
10:03
vagrantc, there is a development team meeting in #ubuntu-meeting btw
10:04
(just starting)
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10:07
<mhterres>
morning
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11:02
<yopla>
hello again. My nfs server is broken :-(
11:03
hello again. My nfs server is broken :-(
11:04
<sbalneav>
Guess you need to fix it then.
11:04
<yopla>
lol
11:04
yes bue I don't know where's the trouble
11:05
i've got RPC: failde to contact portmap
11:05
on server
11:05lambda has quit IRC
11:05
<sbalneav>
So, looks like your portmap process isn't running.
11:05
ps -ef | grep portmap
11:06
What kind of server are you running? What distro?
11:06
<yopla>
daemon 21413 1 0 16:02 ? 00:00:00 /sbin/portmap
11:06
<sbalneav>
You got this on the server?
11:06
Or on the client?
11:07
<yopla>
oooooops
11:07
it wasn't the correct IP on client
11:07
sorrrry
11:07
<sbalneav>
So, your nfs server wasn't broken, your client was broken.
11:08
<yopla>
lol you're right
11:08
<sbalneav>
Here's a tip that will get you better help, faster
11:08
<yopla>
my ltsp client is broken
11:09
<sbalneav>
Instead of coming into a channel, and saying "something is broken :(", you might want to say something like this:
11:09
<yopla>
i've got running /script/nfs-premount
11:10
then "nfs mount need a path"
11:10
<sbalneav>
"Hi, I'm running LTSP version blahdeblah on distro FooFoo, on a server with 4 gigs of ram. When I turn on the client, I get "googoogoo" error. Could anyone tell me what's wrong?
11:10
OK, so check your dhcpd.conf
11:11
<yopla>
sbalneav: you're right.. bit me :)
11:11
<sbalneav>
Anywho, I have to go to a meeting.
11:11
I'll be back later.
11:13
<yopla>
ok
11:13
I have to go home.
11:13
I'll test again later
11:13
bye channel
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11:34
<ohmbr>
hi, how do i know with client ltsp am I?
11:38
I got it.. echo $DISPALY...
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12:05
<vmlintu>
sbalneav: Hello! Got a second to check ltspfs behaviour? I've been trying to investigate why ltspfs mounts sometimes hang and for example 'df' -command blocks when trying to show ltspfs information.
12:07
What I found out was that in file ltspfs.c the ltspfs_read() method never calls pthread_mutex_unlock() if there was an error while reading and instead just returns.
12:09
I checked both the cvs version and the sources for the ubuntu ltspfs package version 0.4.3 and they both do the same.
12:14
What happens is that if the local device being used has e.g. corrupted filesystem, it returns an error to ltspfs when trying to read a file. Because ltspfs received an error, it returns from the ltspfs_read() method without freeing the lock and so nautilus/konqueror/what ever is hanging forever until the ltspfs process is killed.
12:17jstraw is now known as Lumiere
12:18
<vmlintu>
Is there any reason why pthread_mutex_unlock() is not called in case of an error or is a bug? Changing it to free the lock in case of an error did fix the problem for me, but I'm wondering what problems this might bring..
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13:02
<ohmbr>
hi, I'm trying to install a printer on ltsp client... I changed the lts.conf and ther client shows up on the network printer information...
13:02
but it isn printing...
13:02
what may I doing wrong?
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13:26
<ogra>
grmbl, vagrant ....
13:31vagrantc has joined #ltsp
13:34
<ogra>
vagrantc, grmbl
13:34
i didnt check the deps you added ...
13:35
now i just reintroduced esound in ubuntu :P
13:35
<vagrantc>
ogra: yeah, well, you should've seen that last merge.
13:36sepski has joined #ltsp
13:36
<ogra>
why do you depend on esound-utils ? i thought you merged all the pulse stuff
13:36
so drop te deps to nas and esound
13:36
*the
13:37
<vagrantc>
sure
13:38
<ogra>
libasound2-plugins, libgstreamer-plugins-pulse0.10-0 of -standalone should suffice
13:38
<vagrantc>
ogra: the switch to controlgen will make that much easier to keep track of in the future. but the merging was challenging.
13:38
<ogra>
indeed
13:38
actually only libasound2-plugins is really needed
13:39
libgstreamer-plugins-pulse0.10-0 is rather gnome specific, dunno if you want that in debian
13:39
<vagrantc>
well, that's the beauty. we don't need to have the same deps in debian.
13:40
<ogra>
well, we should probably have ltsp-server-sound depending on ltsp-sound-gnome | ltsp-sound-kde | ltsp-sound-native (whatever native might be)
13:40
and ltsp-server-sound bringing libasound2-plugins
13:41
|esound |nas for the dinosaurs
13:41
<vagrantc>
does it include any code, or just a metapackage?
13:41
<ogra>
hng ... this powermanager changes are evil
13:41
only a metapackage
13:42* vagrantc stabs ogra with ldm-server
13:42* ogra curses while poking around in haö code
13:42
<ogra>
*hal
13:42
vagrantc, *sigh* ok, go for it ....
13:43
even though i want that case condition in the wrapper as well :P
13:43
<vagrantc>
i just don't see what an ltsp-sound-server is ok where ldm-server was not :P
13:43
<ogra>
yeah
13:45* ogra tries sudo ltsp-build-client --chroot gutsy
13:45
<vagrantc>
ok, so dropping esound-clients | nas-bin from ltsp-server
13:45
<ogra>
lets see what still works :)
13:45
yep
13:46
we have what we need in -standalone
13:46
its pretty cool that you dont need the daemon on the server with pulse
13:46
<vagrantc>
leave libasound2-plugins in -standalone ... drop libgstreamer-plugins-pulse0.10-0
13:47
nice!
13:47
pulseaudio-esound-compat ?
13:47
<ogra>
hmm, why does debootstrap hang ...
13:47
<vagrantc>
currently a recommends for -standalone
13:47
<ogra>
yep
13:47
you can use it if you want
13:48
<vagrantc>
ok.
13:48
i only played with pulse briefly once
13:48
<ogra>
we still set ESPEAKER so apps using esd can forward through it to pulse if you install pulseaudio-esound-compat
13:48
<vagrantc>
right
13:48
nice bonus
13:48
<ogra>
but usually all apps should use alsa, it works fine without the compat stuff
13:49
yep
13:49
<vagrantc>
very cool
13:49
<ogra>
the only drawback is flash
13:49
<vagrantc>
how hard is it to set up the alsa stuff ? i mean, i know it's default in ubuntu ... just wondering for debian
13:49
we've go an open bug "document sound"
13:49
flash is always a drawback, yes.
13:49
<ogra>
there is a bug in flash that adobe doesnt cloes ... it opens pulse connections over and over without closing them
13:50* vagrantc can't wait for the next multimedia-takes-too-long-to-be-supported-in-free-software phenominon
13:50
<ogra>
so someone wrote a lib called libflsahsupport thats makes your firefox unstable and is strangely licensed but asdds a workaround for the flash bug
13:50
*libflashsupport
13:51
<vagrantc>
ok, ltsp-client ... for ubuntu ... i have pulseaudio-esound-compat | esound | nas ... i suspect you want something different.
13:51
<ogra>
we need to package that this release
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13:53
<ogra>
the compat code gives us the socket for ESPEAKER and additionally it depends on pulseaudio so we get that for free
13:53
s/socket/socket and port/
13:55
so the dep is correct
13:58
hm, i'm curious what will happen if i disable the X detection code completely once that chroot is built
13:58
<vagrantc>
heh.
13:58
<ogra>
xorg is supposed to just work ... but i havent see that yet
13:59
xrandr is pretty cool to adjust all the stuff we do in the initscript atm at runtime
14:00
so it would suffice if it comes up with a standard resolution and some default values an we can use xrandr to adjust it at runtime
14:01
hmm, we could even start X from rcS already i guess
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14:52
<vagrantc>
ogra: or would you rather just depend on pulseaudio-esound-compat or ltsp-client ?
14:52
<ogra>
pulseaudio-esound-compat should be a dep of ltsp-client
14:53
it puls in pulse and gives us the esd socket and port
14:53
meh
14:53
<vagrantc>
pulseaudio-esound-compat | esound | nas
14:53
is what it is now
14:53* ogra builds te third gutsy chroot now
14:53
<ogra>
yeah, thats fine
14:53
<vagrantc>
i was wondering if i should change it to just pulseaudio-esound-compat
14:53
<ogra>
ah
14:54
well, as a dep it should offer alternatives, if people really urgently want esd or nas they should be able to
14:54
<vagrantc>
if they want the alternatives, they can install ltsp-client-core
14:54
<ogra>
hmm, right
14:54
<vagrantc>
:)
14:55
<ogra>
yeah so drop it there
14:55* ogra curses usplash
14:55
<vagrantc>
in debian i'd probably keep all the alternatives ... but in ubuntu it seems like the "one of anything" applies
14:55
sort of
14:56
<ogra>
well the first one should be priorized and we pull it in from EARLY packages anyway
14:56
<vagrantc>
well, i'd like to drop as much as possible from EARLY_PACKAGES
14:56
EARLY_PACKAGES="ltsp-client"
14:56
<ogra>
hmm
14:57
hairy
14:57
<vagrantc>
rather than having hidden RC bugs?
14:57
<ogra>
well
14:57
rather than having a package with really logn crapy dep lines
14:57
*crappy
14:57
<vagrantc>
having the dependencies all in a package means that we can more easily spot breakages on a distro-wide level
14:58
<ogra>
right but still the dep list will be horribly ugly
14:58
anyway
14:58
seems sane
14:58
just doesnt look sane :)
14:58
<vagrantc>
well... we'll sit on that for a while.
14:59
<ogra>
nah, why ?
14:59ohmbr has joined #ltsp
14:59
<ogra>
just moving them over from the variable shouldnt be to hard
15:00
<vagrantc>
ok.
15:00
<ogra>
for a start 1:1 should be fine
15:00
<vagrantc>
i'll finish up the sound cleanup and then add more of that in.
15:04a5benwillis has quit IRC
15:05
<vagrantc>
ogra: ok .. .so move all EARLY_PACKAGES as hard dependencies on ltsp-client?
15:06
<ogra>
yes
15:06
<ohmbr>
I have ltsp 4.2 on kubuntu and I want to upgrade to 5... i'll find a problem to do that?
15:06
<ogra>
even though what you are doing there should have been called ubuntu-thin-client :)
15:06
<vagrantc>
ogra: would you rather call it that?
15:06
<ogra>
thats why we had added it back then
15:06
i just wonder
15:07
thats the historical mane of it ... a tribute to mdz .... not necessarily needed to keep though
15:07
<vagrantc>
do you still want ldm in EARLY_PACKAGES ... i remember you needed it for a specific reason... CDs maybe ?
15:07
<ogra>
no i need the dep for Cds
15:08
<vagrantc>
right. i'll leave it.
15:08
any others shold be left in?
15:08
<ogra>
yep
15:08
i'll sort that for ubuntu later
15:08* ogra -> dinner
15:08
<vagrantc>
so, i shouldn't commit that stuff then?
15:09
<ogra>
sure, do it ... i'll sort whats broken i meant :)
15:09
<vagrantc>
ok.
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15:31
<ace_suares>
ogra!
15:31
hi vagrantc!
15:31
<vagrantc>
greetings
15:31
<ace_suares>
Can anyone write a spec on LP ?
15:31* ace_suares bows to vagrantc
15:33
<ogra>
woah
15:33
on the t-1220 X works without config file
15:33
<vagrantc>
nice :)
15:33
<ogra>
but then thats using vesa anyway
15:34* ogra gets the stopwatch
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15:35
<ogra>
45 sec to X
15:35
<vagrantc>
compared to ... ?
15:36
<ogra>
77 sec to ldm
15:36
well, i tried feisty will all the speedups today on the same machine with over 90 sec
15:36
seems the kernel is faster
15:37
ok, now without udevsettle
15:38
<ace_suares>
ogra, vagrantc, if you have a sec. Can anyone write a spec on edubuntu ? I.e. me, and will this attract comments on the spec ?
15:38
<ogra>
(thats all still with the feisty ldm btw)
15:39
hmm same numbers
15:39
so udevsettle doesnt gain anything on that machine
15:39
ace_suares, anyone with an LP account can write specs
15:42
<ace_suares>
ogra: and is ruby accepted within edubuntu or has everything to be in python ?
15:43Q-FUNK has joined #ltsp
15:45* vagrantc can't wait to rip apart the kiosk plugin
15:45
<ogra>
yay
15:45
e2300 witout X config starts as well
15:45
but ldm is a joke ...
15:46
takig 2/3 of the boottime
15:46
lol, 3 min 12 sec
15:46Q-FUNK has quit IRC
15:46
<ogra>
ace_suares, well pythin is surely preferred
15:46
i'm not even sure ruby is in main
15:46
*python
15:47
ah, 1.8 is in main
15:48
<vagrantc>
ogra: you realize, in feisty, that update-sshkeys gets run once as an Ubuntu plugin and once as a common plugin ?
15:49
hmmm...
15:49
<ogra>
oh207, well, we'll drop it then
15:49
<vagrantc>
maybe our pattern matching should strip off the number part somehow ...
15:49
<ogra>
it doesnt do any harm to run it twice
15:49
<vagrantc>
yeah, i know
15:49
which is probably why you didn't catch it
15:50
<ogra>
yup
15:50Q-FUNK has joined #ltsp
15:52
<vagrantc>
if you want to "move" the order of a plugin from common, you essentially have to put an empty place-holder plugin in your directory
15:52
one of the flaws of the design...
15:54
<ogra>
woah xorg 7.3 rocks so hard :) all our probs are solvd it seems :)))))
15:54
<vagrantc>
what you're saying is X configuration seemed to be the primary drag ?
15:54
<ogra>
i just heard it can even read partial xorg.conf files so we could use it for keymaps etc
15:54
<vagrantc>
or is it faster beyond that, even ?
15:54
<ogra>
its faster beyond that
15:55
<vagrantc>
oh yeah, that was my first question... partial configuration files
15:55
<ogra>
i never managed to boot the e2300 in 3 minutes with an unmodified feisty chroot
15:55
but we wont need any config files, xmodmap and xrandr at runtime will do
15:56
<vagrantc>
xrandr to set the resolution?
15:56
<jammcq>
ogra: so, how fast is it now?
15:56
<ogra>
so we can bring up a greyed out ldm with hourglass cursor and entertain the user by setting up resolution etc
15:56
jammcq, 3 mins atm
15:56
but with the old ldm and no speedups at all
15:56
<jammcq>
what was the speed just before changing?
15:56
<ogra>
plain feisty chroot
15:56
sell with all my poking 2:13 or so
15:57
standard feisty was way over 4 min iirc
15:57
<jammcq>
i'm looking for a comparison between autoconfig and no-autoconfig
15:57
<ogra>
ldm taking 1.5 min of that
15:57
jammcq, oh, ok
15:57
on the t-1220 it gains 20 seconds
15:57
77 vs 97 secs
15:57
<jammcq>
i'm guessing you ripped out the code that does the detection
15:58
whoa
15:58
nice
15:58
<ogra>
i ripperd out all X related code
15:58
but gutsy feels faster overall
15:58
<jammcq>
is it just turned off? or did you remove all the code?
15:58
<ogra>
i turned it off for now
15:58
<jammcq>
so you could turn it back on, eh?
15:58
<ogra>
but its a script so the code isnt even in ram or anywhere
15:58
right
15:59
oh207, the 2:13 on the e2300 were with a static xorg.conf ...
15:59
<jammcq>
i'm just curious about the speed difference caused by Xorg7.3 only
15:59
everything else being equal
16:00* vagrantc loves ogra's funny irc client completions
16:00
<jammcq>
:)
16:00
<ogra>
7.3 seems to start up slower, it takes 2.3 secs to get to the X cursor compared to ! or less sec
16:00
<vagrantc>
uh-oh. lights are turning off.
16:00
<ogra>
s/\!/1
16:01
<vagrantc>
they's gonna kick me out soon.
16:01
<ogra>
*2-3
16:01
where are you ?
16:01
not in your hostel ?
16:01
<vagrantc>
hostal closes common spaces at 11
16:02
<ogra>
and you get no wlan outside the ommon space i gues
16:02
s
16:02
<vagrantc>
not sure. not enough electrical outlets
16:02
and no battery life
16:02
<ogra>
ah
16:02
meh
16:02
time for new HW
16:02
<vagrantc>
well, newer :)
16:03
<ogra>
(yes yes ... new refurbished HW)
16:03
:)
16:03* vagrantc makes one quick push
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16:04
<vagrantc>
ogra: well, take a look at the mess i made of mainline when you get a chance :)
16:04
<ogra>
i will, for sure :)
16:05
<vagrantc>
i think the controlgen stuff could be improved, for sure. but it's orders of magnitude better than what we were doing.
16:06* vagrantc wants to see DIRECTX in action
16:07
<ogra>
its cool
16:07
but you really only see a difference in playing movies etc
16:07
<vagrantc>
and server load
16:07
when you've got 20 some clients
16:07
<ogra>
indeed
16:08* vagrantc was given the freindly reminder to clear out
16:08* sutula wonders what DIRECTX is in this context...pointer?
16:08
<ogra>
unencrypted X traffic via ldm
16:08
<vagrantc>
ah hell. i subscribed to mainline and launchpad is spamming me with all my commits
16:09
<ogra>
oh207, it does that now ?
16:09
doesnt seem to wrk for me
16:09
<sutula>
ogra: Darn...I'm already doing that
16:09
<ogra>
sutula, how ?
16:10
<sutula>
ogra: Logins via XDMCP instead of through ssh
16:10
<ogra>
thats crap
16:10
<vagrantc>
well
16:10
it's normal
16:10
<ogra>
i said "unencrypted X traffic via *ldm*" ;)
16:10
<vagrantc>
but LDM is better :)
16:11* sutula agrees w/r/t security, but wonders whether there are other issues
16:11
<sbalneav>
Speaking of LDM, I got the ssh subsystem to change a password last night :)
16:11
<ogra>
yay
16:11
<sbalneav>
Hey, one thing I've run into.
16:11
<vagrantc>
sutula: the cool thing is that the login happens over SSH, but the traffic is not encrypted... so should be comparable to XDMCP in speed
16:11
<ogra>
sbalneav, did you notice ? we dont need any X detection anymore :D
16:11
<sbalneav>
I modified an edgy LDM here to do the setting DISPLAY, as per gadi's patch.
16:12
gnome-screensaver stopped working.
16:12
<ogra>
yea, its cool, isnt it ?
16:12
oh
16:12
right
16:12
<sutula>
vagrantc: k, I was wishing for more speed (and that's not going to happen) but the better security would be good
16:12
<ogra>
i'll check that,can you file a bug ?
16:12
<sbalneav>
Sure.
16:12
I need to check and see if it does it via XDMCP
16:12
theoretically, it shouldn't work there either.
16:13
<ogra>
sbalneav, so with your 20 secs from ldm and my 15-20 secs for X detection we should be near the 4.2 boottime :)
16:13
<vagrantc>
damn, that'd be nice.
16:13
<sbalneav>
Sexy.
16:13
<ogra>
sbalneav, might be an xauth issue
16:13
or debus
16:13
<sbalneav>
aaaaaahhhhhh
16:13
<vagrantc>
without maintaining a custom kernel, libc, or X :)
16:13
<ogra>
likely dbus
16:13
<sbalneav>
yeah, maybe
16:13
hm
16:14
we'll have to figure that one out.
16:14
<ogra>
vagrantc, well, that doesnt speed up the e2300 still ..
16:14
sbalneav, consolekit should help
16:14
<sbalneav>
buh?
16:14
Consolekit?
16:14
<ogra>
we need to provide conslekit integration with ldm anyway
16:14
<sbalneav>
pointer please
16:14
<ogra>
i gave you the link before UDS when you asked about it
16:14
<sbalneav>
yeah, think I still have it? :)
16:15
<vagrantc>
oh yeah
16:15
night all, or day, or afternoon, or other appropriate parting greeting
16:15
<ogra>
the thing that defines sessions as seats for dbus and hal usage
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16:15
<sbalneav>
I'm lucky if I remember to put my pants on before my shoes :)
16:15
Night
16:15
<ogra>
it doesnt have a homepage ... must be anywhere on f.d.o ... i'm diggin
16:16
<sbalneav>
ok
16:16
yeah, googles got me there.
16:16
<lynn_>
has anybody gotten a powerpc thin-client to work?
16:16
<ogra>
http://gitweb.freedesktop.org/?p=ConsoleKit.git
16:17
framework for defining and tracking users, sessions and seats
16:17
ConsoleKit is a system daemon for tracking what users are logged into the system and how they interact with the computer (e.g. which keyboard and mouse they use).
16:17
thats from the debian experimental package
16:17
hal and friends will depend o it at soe point
16:17
*some
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16:59
<Sunborne>
Hello everybody. Sunborne here - I'm looking for some advice on auto-login. I'm running MueKow on Kubuntu.
16:59jammcq has quit IRC
16:59
<Sunborne>
My LTSP Server auto-logs in but clients don't.
17:00
In my xdmrc I have Xdmcp enable=true.
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17:02
<Sunborne>
I also have section like: [X-ws001:0-Core] NoPassEnable=true NoPassUsers=ltspguest AutoLoginEnable=true AutoLoginUser=ltspguest
17:04
Also strange - when client boots up my server's console goes blank.
17:05
Be right back - gonna go do some more googling on this problem...
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17:24
<Sunborne>
I'm back.
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17:55
<ltsppbot>
"racter" pasted "/etc/ltsp/dhcpcd.conf" (28 lines) at http://pastebot.ltsp.org/152
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18:28
<ltsppbot>
"racter" pasted "/var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/powerpc/yaboot.conf" (8 lines) at http://pastebot.ltsp.org/153
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20:12
<sbalneav>
Evening all
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20:19
<jammcq>
!s
20:19
<ltspbot`>
jammcq: "s" is Scotty!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
20:35
<jammcq>
sbalneav: ping
20:37
<sbalneav>
Pong
20:38
<jammcq>
hey, did you see that guy that supplied a patch for ltspfs ?
20:38
on the ltsp-developer list
20:38
<sbalneav>
No
20:38
When was this?
20:39
<jammcq>
today
20:39
if the media is bad, the read returns an error, and exits from the routine without releasing a mutex
20:39
yer on the ltsp-developer list, aren't you?
20:39
<sbalneav>
Yeah, but I haven't looked at it for a few days
20:39
<jammcq>
well......
20:40
<sbalneav>
Yeah, I see it.
20:41
<jammcq>
pretty cool, eh?
20:42
<sbalneav>
Well, he's only patched _read, I'll have a look through and see if theres anywhere else where there's a mutex not being freed
20:42
<jammcq>
yeah. at least _read fixes something
20:43
<sbalneav>
If I forgot it there, I probably forgot it in a few other places.
20:43
I'll have a looksee tonight.
20:43* jammcq is ordering a Dell desktop machine with Ubuntu pre-loaded
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20:53
<cliebow_>
8~)
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22:08
<mistik1>
jammcq: WoW!!!
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22:13
<jammcq>
mistik1: hey buddy
22:13
<mistik1>
hey man
22:13
<jammcq>
you sitting on the edge of your seat?
22:13
<mistik1>
This is the best game i've seen a while
22:13
<jammcq>
yeah
22:14
<mistik1>
I think its safe to say that cleveland has arrived
22:14
<jammcq>
they are definately playing some good ball
22:15
<mistik1>
In the words of Rasheed, "Both teams played hard" ;-)
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22:23
<ChinaForge>
Hello,How to get LTSP 5.0 rdesktop screen script?
22:24
<sbalneav>
Hmmm, doesn't look like we have one in there yet.
22:24
Probably just need to port it across from 4.2
22:24
<ChinaForge>
:(,Thank you.
22:25* sbalneav adds it to the todo list
22:25
<jammcq>
sbalneav: Gadi's prolly already got one. that's fairly important to him
22:25
<sbalneav>
Good point. I'll check with him next time I see him on
22:26
<jammcq>
good plan.
22:32
mistik1: i'm getting a bad feeling
22:38
<mistik1>
this may go double
22:38
icredible
22:38
<jammcq>
jeeeeeeeeez
22:38
<mistik1>
incredible even
22:39
jammcq: this is one game you should have baught a ticket for
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22:52
<jammcq>
mistik1: can you say "3T" ?
22:52
<mistik1>
All I can say is WOW!!!
22:54
Its a game of attrition
22:56
jammcq: what exactly are we seeing?
22:57
brings sharply to mind another #23
22:59
<jammcq>
and then..... depression sets in
23:00
<mistik1>
sorry bro, but you must admit this is one for the history books
23:00
<jammcq>
that's what they're all saying
23:00* jammcq misses the old team
23:01
<mistik1>
I think part of the key to this game was that ejection
23:01
I thought the same of the phoenix suspensions
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