IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 5 June 2012   (all times are UTC)

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01:39
<highvoltage>
alexqwesa: you're still awake!?
01:42
(oops, meant alkisg)
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05:52
<mealstrom>
good morning
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10:52
<garymc>
Hi guys, does anyone know how I can have a logged off timer on the workstations to monitor how long my employees have been on their break?
10:53
they get half an hour break and I want them to have a timer on the screen. also a log of their break lenght as some people are going for longer than they should
11:02
<alkisg>
What if they don't log off but stay logged in while they take their break?
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11:04
<andygraybeal>
morning
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11:08
<iku_vlc>
hii
11:09
i have a problem when i run firefox on the thin clients
11:09
firefox do not open at full screen
11:09
some has this problem too?
11:17
hello????
11:17
somone there?
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11:18
<alkisg>
iku_vlc: you asked if someone has that problem, obviously not...
11:19
<iku_vlc>
or a similar problem when trying runin an application??
11:20
<alkisg>
Nope
11:20
<ogra_>
alkisg, does epoptes have any resource monitoring capabilities ?
11:21
(someone on the ubuntu-users ML is looking for a monitoring tool for ltsp clients)
11:21
<alkisg>
ogra_: it has a right click => propertis to display the hardware, other than that one can use the "run command on clients" dialog to run whatever he wants
11:21
What does he want to monitor, CPU usage, network bandwidth etc?
11:21
<ogra_>
no idea
11:22
well, network resource monitoring is what he asks for it seems
11:22
<alkisg>
..but now that you mention it it'd be a good idea to include some client stats in the client properties dialog
11:22
<ogra_>
https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-users/2012-June/260681.html
11:23
<garymc>
alkisg we check they log off. a supervisor does
11:23
or is there any other way to check it?
11:24
cos doing it with a watch doesnt seem to be helping
11:24
<alkisg>
You can easily check if they're logged in or not, e.g. by typing "w" on your server. And you can use a client idle time with xprintidle.
11:26* ogra_ would make them lock the screen and just hack the screensaver to note down the lock and unlock times
11:26
<ogra_>
or something along these line
11:27
<garymc>
ok i want them to be logged in all the time. I just want a Timer that is on screen that is GREEN for 30 mins then goes red if they dont click back in before it goes red. and some sort of way of tracking
11:31
<alkisg>
I don't know of a tool with all that you ask, so you'd probably have to make a small script for it
11:35
<garymc>
hmm ok
11:37
<andygraybeal>
iku_vlc, hey, i dn't have that problem.. full screen works great :)
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11:46
<iku_vlc>
i can get forefox working on full screen, im running it after a xsession is started
11:49
and around firefox windows a black screen and X cursos apears
11:50
maybe an script capture, explain better than i
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11:53
<alkisg>
iku_vlc: do you login first, so that a window manager is started?
11:53
Or are you trying to run something like a kiosk?
11:53
<iku_vlc>
http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/2984/firefoxissue.png
11:54
yes
11:54
with out a like :P
11:55
and dont works the plugin r_kiosk on the thin client
11:55
when i run firefox in the server(clients chroot) it work
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12:07
<alkisg>
iku_vlc: you need to run a window manager to have maximized windows
12:07
That's why you have to login first, or use the kiosk plugin
12:08
<iku_vlc>
i do autologin
12:09
<alkisg>
iku_vlc: are you setting LDM_XSESSION?
12:09
<iku_vlc>
kiosk plugin..of ltsp or firefox kiosk plugin?
12:09
<alkisg>
LTSP kiosk plugin
12:10
<iku_vlc>
i9mk not setting LDM_XSESSION
12:10
<alkisg>
How are you running firefox? From where?
12:11
<iku_vlc>
i put an rc script that start firefox
12:11
<alkisg>
Where?
12:11
<iku_vlc>
i think is before xsession begins
12:12
<alkisg>
Right, it's like if you set LDM_XSESSION
12:12
So the session doesn't load and you don't have a window manager
12:12
<iku_vlc>
in chroot/usr/share/ldm/rc.d/
12:13
then why firefox start in a window?
12:14
<alkisg>
That's what programs do if no window manager is present, please google for what a window manager is
12:14
<iku_vlc>
if i put that script after an x session starts i should be able to start at full screen?
12:15
<alkisg>
If the xsession starts you'll have a full desktop with menus and everything. You can run things there from /etc/xdg/autostart on the server
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12:30
<mealstrom>
hi, any idea how to fix sound quality on thin client running sflphone locally using usb headset?
12:31
<Hyperbyte>
mealstrom, you haven't really told us what's broken yet. :)
12:31
<mealstrom>
dont know how to describe it.
12:32
ill try. it sounds like someone has put equalizer levels of low frequency to high
12:33
<Hyperbyte>
Does it sound a bit like hissing in high frequencies?
12:34
<mealstrom>
yes. yours describe is better
12:36
Hyperbyte: have you manged with this?
12:39
<alkisg1>
mealstrom: try SOUND=False in lts.conf, and see if it gets any better
12:39
(that disables pulseaudio, just to see if it works fine with direct alsa)
12:39
<Hyperbyte>
mealstrom, which Ubuntu version?
12:40
<mealstrom>
Hyperbyte: 12.04
12:40
<Hyperbyte>
alkisg1, sflphone natively works with PulseAudio
12:40
<alkisg1>
Hyperbyte: we start pulseaudio in system mode to listen for remote connections
12:40
It's not the "regular" pulseaudio server
12:41
Don't know if that makes a difference, but it's not hard to try with SOUND=false
12:41alkisg1 is now known as alkisg
12:41
<mealstrom>
so i've to try with "Sound=false" ?
12:41
<alkisg>
That's what I proposed above, yes
12:41
<mealstrom>
ok. i let you know in few minutes about the result
12:41
<alkisg>
If Hyperbyte has a better idea though, you should listen to him, he's more into sound these days :)
12:42
<Hyperbyte>
And he's using SFLphone too.
12:43
I have to say mealstrom, I noticed the same hissing when I first started using SFLphone
12:43
But either it has disappeared, or I no longer hear it.
12:43
<mealstrom>
im open for any ideas that would help me to solve this
12:44
<Hyperbyte>
Which headset are you using?
12:45
<mealstrom>
Hyperbyte: what was yours solution?
12:46
Hyperbyte: im using planktronics 646dsp
12:46
alkisg: after sound=no i only have "dummy" soundcard. No usb sound.
12:47
<alkisg>
mealstrom: if you run alsamixer, do you see the usb card?
12:47
(locally)
12:47
<mealstrom>
alkisg: yes, i see it
12:48
<alkisg>
Can't you configure your phone to use that card?
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12:50
<mealstrom>
alkisg: sflphone doesnt start.
12:50
<alkisg>
You may need to change its configuration before it can start, if you have it configured to use pulseaudio by default
12:50
<mealstrom>
ill try
12:51
<alkisg>
I've never seen that sflphone app, I'm just guessing
12:57
<mealstrom>
alkisg: even with clean config, it does not let me check it configuration tab.
12:58
<alkisg>
mealstrom: are you running that from a local xterm, or as root?
12:59
If as user, you may need to put him in the audio group
12:59
Anyway gotta go, bbl
13:00
<mealstrom>
see you
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13:02
<mealstrom>
Hyperbyte: have you fixed this problem /
13:02
<Hyperbyte>
mealstrom, I don't know.
13:02
My colleagues never noticed it, and I've probably stopped hearing it.
13:03
My advice: try to capture the error, in sound... make a recording via sflphone, and one via local audio recorder
13:03
Make the difference hearable for everyone, and then send a mail to the SFLphone mailing list
13:04
http://lists.savoirfairelinux.net/mailman/listinfo/sflphone
13:04
I'm subscribed there too. If you make a good test case, I'll run the same test and back you up.
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14:13
<iku_vlc>
hii again
14:13
after lunch and a time to think about it i used thew kiosk plugin
14:14
and sucessfully runnin
14:14
but have the same problem
14:14
firefox do not recognize r_kiosk plugin
14:15
to run in full screen mode
14:19
i installed plugin in the chroot but nothing
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14:34
<iku_vlc>
has someone the same problem with this or other program?
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17:21
<Mip>
Hey Gang -I have a local mirror of ubuntu and would like to point my chroot/thin clients to it. I've edited the /etc/apt/sources.list file once the I've built my client, but is there a way to specify that the mirror be used when *building* the client?
17:22
<ogra_>
ltsp-build-client --extra-help
17:22
iirc
17:22
there should be an option
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17:24
<Mip>
thanks
17:25
btw - where's the best documentation for 12.04 as an ltsp? I'm setting up a server now for use in the fall, so I have some time to tweak and test, but figure it's a good time to make the move from lucid to precise.
17:29
<ogra_>
well, there is treh ltsp-docs package that should always be up to date
17:37
<Mip>
--copy-sourceslist as an ltsp-build-client option looks good.
17:48
I see that ltsp-docs wasn't included by default when everything else was. I'll add it once my client has been built
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18:17
<vagrantc>
alkisg: committed a proof of concept for X-$Vendor-$Package_relation
18:21
<alkisg>
vagrantc: Howdy. Nice! Does it work as expected?
18:21
<vagrantc>
alkisg: i tested it and it seemed to ...
18:21
alkisg: i used vendor:Depends, vendor:Recommends ... and then you set X-Debian-Depends in the relevent package section.
18:22
alkisg: it supports arbitrary X-$VENDOR-$FIELD values
18:22
alkisg: and will create a corresponding vendor:$FIELD variable
18:22
<alkisg>
Sounds like you should blog about it, maybe others could find it useful too ;)
18:22
vagrantc: btw why not recommend: ltsp-docs in ltsp-server?
18:22
<vagrantc>
alkisg: i've got to do more vetting, lintian made some grumblings
18:23
<ogra_>
alkisg, ++
18:23
<vagrantc>
alkisg: i will most definitely add that recommendation :)
18:23
alkisg: i went with vendor: rather than dist:
18:23* vagrantc should start blogging at all, probably
18:25
<vagrantc>
i also wanted to blog about the vexpress kernel supported by qemu in debian ...
18:25
and cross-building ltsp with it
18:25
i can test two aspects of qemu and ltsp all in one go :)
18:25
<ogra_>
debian still has it ?
18:25
ubuntu dropped it a while agi
18:26
*ago
18:26
<vagrantc>
qemu?
18:26
<ogra_>
vexpress
18:26
<vagrantc>
we just got it
18:26
<ogra_>
ah
18:26
<alkisg>
vagrantc: ah, I was trying to fix the DNS_SERVER=auto variable, as it doesn't work. I though this: http://paste.ubuntu.com/1025471/
18:26
<vagrantc>
it's the only one supported by upstream qemu that also does armhf
18:27* vagrantc tries very hard to ignore #ltsp for a while
18:32
<vagrantc>
alkisg: but at risk of being unable to ignore, i committed the code to the ltsp-debian-packaging branch
18:35
<alkisg>
vagrantc: seems very elegant, you didn't even have to put the Recommends: etc fields?!
18:38
<vagrantc>
alkisg: it just checks for X-Foo-Bar and then adds a vendor:BAR variable if present.
18:38
alkisg: you do need to then put ${vendor:BAR} in the corresponding field.
18:38
alkisg: so you could literally put any arbitrary field in there.
18:40
<alkisg>
Very nice! /me pushes an ltsp-server-dnsmasq-el.conf example, hope noone objects...
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18:49
<alkisg>
vagrantc: is it appropriate for sch-scripts to ship /usr/share/doc/ltsp-server/examples/ltsp-server-dnsmasq-el.conf (or a symlink there)?
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19:13
<Mip>
I'm getting a boot error on my thin clients: Could not find kernel image: vmlinuz, followed by a boot prompt. I tried rebuilding the client (twice), but it's not working. I'm trying to build for fat clients
19:14
This is the command and options I ran: sudo ltsp-build-client --arch i386 --mirror http://10.105.0.45/ubuntu/ --purge-chroot
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19:21
<alkisg>
Mip: ls -l /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386
19:24
<Mip>
there's a vmlinuz there, and it points to vmlinuz-3.2-24-generic-pae, but the date is from the day I installed the server, not today.
19:24
<alkisg>
Then probably ltsp-update-kernels hasn't ran because ltsp-build-client failed, check its logs
19:27
<Mip>
Given that this has happed before (and I moved the old i386 and image directories), should I try to start from scratch (other than reinstalling the server)? The thin client booted fine the *1st* time I tried, before I ran updates on the server and chrooted thin client. I'll take a look at the logs, though.
19:30
I don't think the images are actually there -
19:32
there are black boxes in the terminal window around the image (initrd.img, which is a symlink, and it's target). This is the case for the nib, and vmlinuz as well
19:32
<alkisg>
Mip: the ltsp-build-client logs hold the key to the mystery
19:33
<Mip>
ok - thanks ;-)
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19:34
<Mip>
There's this - Skipping netabootwrap images. Install the aboot package if you need them.
19:35
<alkisg>
Ignore that
19:37
<Mip>
Here's the log - http://pastebin.com/Cx4qir7B
19:37
<alkisg>
Mip: no, before that
19:38
E.g. it's possible that it didn't find the linux kernel to install
19:38
What's in your /opt/ltsp/i386/boot now? ls -l there
19:38
<Mip>
I'm using screen - maybe I missed the top part
19:39
gpxelinux.0 memtest86+.bin memtest86+_multiboot.bin pxelinux.0 pxelinux.cfg
19:39
<alkisg>
No kernel
19:39
<Mip>
yeah, I see that now....
19:39
<alkisg>
So in the logs you'd see some message about not finding some packages
19:39
<Mip>
okay let me look again...
19:40
FTR - here's my ltsp-build-client.conf file http://pastebin.com/Xiv5ERJ9
19:42
<alkisg>
E.g. your mirror might not contain all the necessary packages
19:42
Why not use --mount-package-cache instead?
19:44
<Mip>
Okay - I'll try that again - it seemed slow, so I didn't think it was working. I'll try it now. How can I be sure to clean out any crud I've created so far? I'm wondering if could also be part of the problem.
19:49
<alkisg>
--purge should suffice
19:49
Downloading e.g. 700 mb from the net does take time :)
19:51
<Mip>
alkisg: I thought if I used --mount-package-cache, it wouldn't redownload from the net. WHen I ran netstat and saw a bunch of connections, I figured I hadn't specified the option correctly
19:52
<alkisg>
Mip: it won't redownload if it has downloaded them once before
19:52
Mip: du -sh /var/cache/apt/archives/
19:53
<Mip>
There's only 26 m of archives - that's surprising to me
19:53
<alkisg>
Did you run apt-get clean?
19:54
<Mip>
no
19:54
<alkisg>
When you _don't_ use --mount-package-cache (or the package dir in build-client.conf), then the files go to the chroot
19:54
And it gets bigger unecessarily, and they're removed afterwards
19:54
So that'd explain your cache small size
19:55
(10:54:51 μμ) alkisg: And it gets bigger unecessarily, and they're removed afterwards ==> no actually they're not removed from the chroot
19:55
<Mip>
okay - thanks
19:55
<alkisg>
You should be still able to find them there
19:55
In /opt/ltsp/i386/var/cache/apt/archives
19:55
<Mip>
right - I was just thinking that...
19:55
<alkisg>
So, copy them to your server before running ltsp-build-client --mount-package-cache
19:56
<Mip>
yeah, too late…. it's okay. I need another cup of coffee anyway. ;-)
19:57
It's in the Unpacking stage, so it shouldn't' be too long now
19:58
well, now it's downloading more stuff....
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19:58
<vagrantc>
alkisg: where was that pad specing out the new ideas we had for update-kernels?
19:58
<alkisg>
!pad
19:58
<ltsp`>
alkisg: pad: http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/ltsp
19:59
<vagrantc>
oh right, javascripty
20:00
<alkisg>
vagrantc: could you have a quick look at this?
20:00
(09:26:48 μμ) alkisg: vagrantc: ah, I was trying to fix the DNS_SERVER=auto variable, as it doesn't work. I though this: http://paste.ubuntu.com/1025471/
20:00
I think you once said that you didn't like falling back to some default dns server if DNS_SERVER was empty...
20:00* vagrantc hacks ltsp on breaks :)
20:01
<alkisg>
Lines 12 to 18
20:01
In short, if DNS_SERVER is unset, I'm using dig to check if the server or the gateway or google's dns are (reachable) dns servers
20:01
<vagrantc>
alkisg: what's the diff from the old code?
20:02
<alkisg>
The old code was using "DNS_SERVER=auto", and nc
20:02
The nc part won't work with DNS as it uses UDP
20:02* vagrantc hasn't used dig in ages
20:02
<alkisg>
So the old code was never used
20:02
<vagrantc>
i usually use host
20:02
<alkisg>
Also, "dig" shouldn't be in thin chroots anyway,
20:02
so I primarily want that for people using ltsp-pnp with ipappend 3...
20:03
<stgraber>
alkisg: partly true, DNS uses both UDP and TCP. People tend to assume that the TCP side of things are optional until they try to resolve a DNS record bigger than the UDP packet size and wonder why they don't get a reply ;)
20:03
<vagrantc>
all this efficient variable substitutions need more comments :)
20:04
<alkisg>
stgraber: right, so doing an actual dns query is the best solution i guess
20:04
<stgraber>
yes
20:04
<alkisg>
vagrantc: the "@" is part of the dig syntax, i.e. ${SERVER:+@$SERVER} is just SERVER with a @ in front of it, or empty if unset...
20:05
I think if we're to put such comments, we should put them in some global doc, with coding styles, tricks etc
20:05
<vagrantc>
in-code comments are still a good idea... i never use them enough
20:06
<alkisg>
So, would anyone mind if I committed that?
20:06
It shouldn't affect thin clients anyway, only fat clients with ipappend=3, where dns is broken otherwise (unless defined in lts.conf)
20:06
<vagrantc>
it only runs if dig is installed ...
20:07
alkisg: so, it's looking for a value to set the dns server?
20:07
<stgraber>
why not use: host <query> <server> ?
20:07
<alkisg>
vagrantc: is either dig or host or nslookup installed in a default debian thin chroot?
20:08
stgraber: when I was googling about dns lookups some years ago I saw dig and started using it, but I've no idea what people usually use or if host is better
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20:08
<alkisg>
If it is, I don't mind switching to it
20:08
<vagrantc>
alkisg: i'm not sure ... i don't think so
20:08
<alkisg>
In Ubuntu chroots, none of them are preinstalled
20:08
(thin)
20:08
While in fats, all of them
20:08
<vagrantc>
alkisg: if there is no gateway?
20:08
<stgraber>
host is more common in ubuntu than dig, as IIRC ubuntu-standard ships host
20:08
<alkisg>
vagrantc: then it won't be checked
20:09
<stgraber>
hmm, so is dnsutils => dig, nevermind :)
20:09
<alkisg>
stgraber: ok, /me looks if `host` has options to minimize the time needed...
20:09
<stgraber>
alkisg: so apparently Ubuntu ships both with ubnutu-standard, so I don't care ;)
20:10
<alkisg>
stgraber: it also doesn't appear to support multiple queries, so I'd have to use loops in the code
20:10
<stgraber>
I thought we no longer shipped dig, but apparently I was wrong. We might end up killing it in the next spring cleaning of the seeds though as I can't really justify its presence in ubuntu-standard
20:14
<alkisg>
Ah, it's bundled with "bind", so it should have more reputation than "dig"... let me see if I can use that instead
20:16
<vagrantc>
alkisg: so, this will only be run when $utility is installed, and only if DNS_SERVER is not set or found from DHCP ?
20:16
<alkisg>
vagrantc: right
20:16
<vagrantc>
ok, with the DHCP being preferred, i'm fine with it.
20:17
<alkisg>
Nice, ty
20:19
<Mip>
alkisg: the ltsp-build-client failed. http://pastebin.com/urG2HvbE
20:19
Actually - just posted the last part with the errors
20:20
<alkisg>
Mip: it seems like you're having network problems, that file should have been downloaded fine
20:21
<Mip>
yeah - during the end of the day, the bandwidth is in high demand. At this point, should I go into the chroot and fix it from there, or would that not create the kernels. I think this is what I tried last time.
20:21
<alkisg>
I'd just rerun ltsp-build-client until it succeeds, as downloaded files are added to the cache
20:22
<Mip>
right - I was just poking around to see if they were there. Okay - that's what I'll do. Thanks.
20:22
<alkisg>
It'd be nice if there was a "retry 3 times" option though
20:22
I've hit that problem myself in a few schools
20:22
<Mip>
Really?
20:22
<alkisg>
Fortunately now with ltsp-pnp I'm no longer using ltsp-build-client :D
20:23
Ah, it might interest you, have a look:
20:23
!ltsp-pnp
20:23
<ltsp`>
alkisg: ltsp-pnp: ltsp-pnp is an alternative (upstream) method to maintain LTSP installations for thin and fat clients that doesn't involve chroots: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/ltsp-pnp
20:23
<alkisg>
It doesn't download packages, it just reuses your server installation
20:23
...but it has to be the same arch
20:23
(as the clients)
20:23
<Mip>
Cool - it looks promising. It's the future?
20:24
<alkisg>
No, it's just an "alternative" method, which will be supported upstream
20:24
Whoever wants to use it, can select it
20:24
Both ltsp-pnp and ltsp-build-client will continue to be supported
20:24
<Mip>
I see. I think I have 32-bit on the server, even though it's new, uname -a 3.2.0-24-generic-pae #39-Ubuntu SMP Mon May 21 18:54:21 UTC 2012 i686 i686 i386 GNU/Linux
20:24
<vagrantc>
the same arch limitation is a bit of an issue for amd64 machines
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20:25
<alkisg>
Well one can use vbox then
20:25
But -pae works fine for our needs here
20:25
It even uses less memory than 64bit, due to pointer size and all that
20:26
(11:25:18 μμ) alkisg: Well one can use vbox then ==> e.g. even a headless server with no X, and a headless vbox that provides a gui to generate the fat chroot
20:27
It should also be easy enough to netinstall a distro in an RW NFS dir instead of using vbox
20:28
That would work on arm and other arches
20:29
I.e. instead of cross-arch ltsp-build-client, just netinstall a client of whatever arch
20:30* alkisg hopes Unity and the other graphical installers will support NFS installations in the future... otherwise we'd have to create a script to mount an NBD target disk.
20:32
<vagrantc>
cross-arch with arm is generally faster on a reasonably fast x86 machine that it is on most any native arm client hardware
20:34
<stgraber>
vagrantc: Debian needs more shiny hardware, there are boards nowadays that are likely faster than your current i386/amd64 builders :)
20:41
<Mip>
alkisg: thanks for your help. I've got to leave for the day, and just saw that my build needs to be download for another 30 min! Hopefully I'll catch up with y'all tomorrow.
20:41
<alkisg>
goodnight
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20:51
<vagrantc>
stgraber: well, yes, there are fancier boards, but for running ltsp-build-client, my guess is most people are doing so to support low-power arm thin clients.
21:00
if there are any people actually doing so :)
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21:29* alkisg isn't sure if there should be a common.conf, or a server.conf and a client.conf...
21:29
<alkisg>
Or server-common.conf and client-common.conf anyway
21:32
And, if we'll be shipping a conf, is there a reason to keep supporting multiple tftp dirs? It's confusing...
21:34
Let's just call it "TFTP=/var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp" and be done with it - and each distro can have a client/$VENDOR/etc/ltsp/server-common.conf override file.
21:35
The packaging can then use it to generate appropriate man pages and example files (an upstream script for that would probably be best)
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23:31
<vagrantc>
hrm. my substvars stuff didn't work ... hrm
23:32
different tftp servers on debian have different default dirs.
23:32
hence having all dirs supported.
23:34
ah, i forgot to build-dep on grep-dctrl
23:49
er, dctrl-tools