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if I have a disk in the drive and reboot it will mount the drive, but if I open the drive it disappears and won't remount, and I can't insert a dvd after a fresh boot and have it recognize it other than to flash the icon and disappear. as far as the debug steps, there is no fuse group, and I'm not seeing recognition in dmesg for the drive..
It may be that bug that I remember, but I don't remember which one it was. E.g. it may be this one: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ltsp-upstream/ltspfs/ltspfs-trunk/revision/143
You can try getting a more recent ltspfs version from launchpad and copying it to your chroot manually...
alkisg, we actually talked at work about Windows -based LTSP -like system with our co-op company.
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And? Any progress there?
Not yet, talking was more like possibility to do so.
As you described it when you mentioned about Windows version of nbd-serverr.
Ah - yeah that wouldn't be too hard
I thought you were talking about booting windows on the clients :)
Because we have lot of customers still running IE6 and Adobe Reader 7
A windows nbd-server doesn't really offer much though, as you still have linux underneath. And e.g. you'd still need a linux machine to update the image.
That can be done in vm.
You can have a full server in vm too :)
I know. :)
this is odd.. the configure script wasn't able to detect fuse or x11 or the current LTSPFS...
I was amazed and shamed when I had to visit in one of our customers office (as myself, not work related) and I saw their systems. All software was left as is after installation, not updates nor upgrades at all.
looks like stgraber has been busy tagging branches while i was on the train...
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alkisg, there's three kvm based vm-hosts under my control in work. I'm more familiar with them than ltsp, and I'm getting good with ltsp.
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hm... annoying dependency errors.. where can I change the PKG_CONFIG_PATH variable, is that in the configure or?
Luke_Wolf: why don't you try just copying the ltspfs scripts over your existing ones?
stgraber: if i'd known you were going to tag ldm 2.1.3, i would've done it a few days ago ... as i just did an upload with all the patches from ldm-trunk
am I going to have to restart the server for changes to take effect?
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how do I make other input methods available on the thin clients running firefox?
I need korean and Chinese for example
ftherese: I do not know for sure but I suppose it goes the same way as installing language support in general.
Just add languages to the server and that should be it.
ok, I'll try that elias_a thank you
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Hi guys, i am having a problem with ltsp5 on gentoo, i've made possible to install a client, the ldm shows up but when i try to log in, is like is not "reading" the OS users. So i've created one user inside chroot of ltsp and it works. Which could be the reason?
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[GuS]: are you sure you're using ldm? ldm runs ssh, so it wouldn't work with a local user
(unless of course you actually have sshd installed on the chroot, and you point ldm to it for user authentication)
uhmmm interesting. Well, for what it seems is ldm, cause has ltsp logo and such but i could be wrong. So, where i configure the ldm for not chroot sshd? (sorry if i dont give more data, the installation was made from another admin and i must continue it)
I think it reads the "LDM_SERVER" environment variable
(which is supposed to come from the screen.d/ldm script (=SERVER there), which is supposed to come from lts.conf or from dhcpd
mm, well in lts.conf the server is the local server IP, i will look in the ldm script
change the ldm script so that it runs a /bin/xterm and check inside that shell if everything is ok.
ok, thanks alkisg. I will start from here then :)
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from the topic: "Gentoo is getting very close" ==> it's not there yet ==> some debugging will be needed :)
alkisg: indeed, and i know... but we use Gentoo in the company i work... so i dont have alternative :( (even when i dislike it...)
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alkisg: also i dont know if this is usefull information, seems all ok http://pastebin.com/cLskUsZA
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well, i think is not ldm which i am using
Trying to do NAT redirection for PCs on my ltsp network.
Since NetworkManager (GUI) uses /etc/NetworkManager/system-connections/ instead of /etc/network/interfaces, where should I put "up iptables-restore < /etc/ltsp/nat".
Is there a place provided by Network Manager for adding additional commands, like this?
Yes. Read this paragraph *and* the next one (two methods there): https://help.ubuntu.com/community/IptablesHowTo#Solution%20#2%20/etc/network/if-pre-up.d%20and%20../if-post-down.d
Why do you need NATting? It shouldn't be needed unless you use localapps...
PCs running Windoze.
Those shouldn't be on the same network as ltsp
(I know, it's such a waste, but the teacher is more comfortable, if it's still around.)
If they are, you'd better just use one nic on the server, there's no point in using 2 nics then
No, it works. It's just that I have to put it where it will be recognized by the system.
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Last time we went back to using Network Manager, it blew away a working system.
I understand that it works, I'm just saying that it's not necessary, you complicate your network setup without reason
Why doesn't it just work with standard DHCP, then?
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Connecting to any web page.
Because you're using 2 nics
OK never mind go on it will work like you do it
I was just proposing another -simpler- method, but you're closer to completing the 2 nic setup, so never mind
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Won't the extra card help overall througput, though?
(not the way you got it wired)
Interesting. I thought this was the best way to do it.
(It's the standard way.)
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The standard way is not to connect the other PCs on the ltsp subnet :)
Don't worry, it'll work fine, go on...
Well, that goes without saying. I was hoping wine would negate the need for the Windows side, but alas, it screwed up my install and is too complex to deal with.
So, where does one put the "up iptables-restore < /etc/ltsp/nat" command, using Network manager?
See the link I pasted above
ahh, thanks. I missed it earlier.
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alkisg: i've upgraded ltsp to 5.2.4 and tried to build a new ltsp client, which i have this error: http://pastebin.com/BWydV7ze any ideas? seems like a path problem
alkisg: is the layman path which changed?
[GuS]: I've no idea about Gentoo, sorry
Never even seen it running
ahh ok :(
jaja me either the v5 :P
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Any gentoo users in the channel? :D
ok fixed.. seems it was the new path of layman
there are a few of us
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alkisg: i have a doub about the old ltsp4.2, actually a thin client can mount a CDROM drive?
of you need to configure it?
I've never seen the old ltsp 4.2 :)
(so I guess that you'll get better answers if you ask in the channel and not me personally - as I'm neither a gentoo nor ltsp 4.2 user :))
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is anybody familiar with installing firefox plugins on localapps installations?
vagrantc: instead of modifying .desktop entries, wouldn't it be cleaner to implement localapps menu handling like this?
1) Create a bin directory somewhere, e.g. /tmp/userxxx-bin, and put it first into the user path.
2) Fill it with small shell scripts, e.g. for firefox that would be: ltsp-localapps firefox $@
The advantages I'm thinking of are: 1) simpler, and 2) commands would work even outside of the menus (e.g. a user trying to run firefox from the console, or a server thunderbird trying to invoke a localapps firefox)...
(I think most .desktop files don't use absolute paths for their commands - this might even be in the specification, not sure...)
(in (2), symlinks to a "run-ltsp-localapp" script would also work, no need for many different scripts)
(and (3), it might even work for non-xdg compliant DEs that don't use .desktop files for their menus...)
(heh and (4) no need to change any panels, those should also work)
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Hmm 35 out of 239 apps in my /usr/share/applications use absolute paths :-/
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alkisg: i think the full paths issue was one of the problems... even if *most* don't, some do
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Yeah I saw it at the end. Petty, it would be nice if noone of them used absolute paths
alkisg: overall, i like that idea better
(it would even be nice for non-ltsp setups, e.g. a user may override firefox this way in his own ~/bin)
file bugs :)
Except for opera though, I don't see any app that I would be interested in running it as a localapp
(that uses absolute paths)
Ah, and maybe nxclient
|11:34||* vagrantc ponders if it would be worth getting into various policies... and then the problem would eventually correct itself|
Unfortunately it's not there yet: http://standards.freedesktop.org/desktop-entry-spec/desktop-entry-spec-latest.html
"The executable program can either be specified with its full path or with the name of the executable only."
how can we do evil properly with all these full paths laying around?
alkisg: sounds like... more work... but we could do both tweaked .desktop and PATH hacks
I thought of it. It doesn't sound bad, it would help with the thunderbird/firefox issue
debian is frozen, so any craziness we come up with most likely won't be in the upcoming debian release
stuck with craziness of the past :)
Wow... so maybe in the autumn we'll see a new debian? that cycle was quick...
alkisg: also, the snippets would need to handle all manner of insane quoting
alkisg: hope so
vagrantc: a simple symlink to a new script of ours would do, e.g. symlink /tmp/userxxx-bin/firefox to /usr/bin/run-ltsp-localapp,
alkisg: debian's got a reputation for *really* slow cycles based on a single cycle several releases back that too insanely long
and then check $0 to get the name of the executable
alkisg: the last several release cycles were generally under 2 years
Right, I thought I heard they wanted to speed it up a little
Btw, we could also do that locally for remoteapps
E.g. a local firefox would launch a remote thunderbird with a mailto: link
there was a botched attempt at speeding it up a lot to try and sync up with ubuntu's LTS, but the developer base revolted
largely for good reason, i think
Yeah it's too soon for this
If, at some point, a very large percentage of the developers synchronize with a 6month cycle, then maybe debian could try it again... i think...
(I'm saying that because gnome, kde, ubuntu, fedora etc settled for a 6 month cycle, so maybe some devs could slowly get used to that)
(although imho 6 months is too little, a year would be more sane)
|11:47||* vagrantc nods|
Hmmm we can modify ltsp-localapps to *be* the wrapper script: if "$0" != "ltsp-localapps" ==> then it was launched as "/tmp/userxxx-bin/firefox" so it should run firefox instead
that sounds reasonable
(and the same for remoteapps)
think you'll need if "$(basename $0)" != "ltsp-localapps"
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"$(basename "$0")" even
ok, back to work for now...
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alkisg, I replaced all instances of the files with the ones in the scripts folder, but the problem is still there, and now it doesn't mount from boot.
Luke_Wolf: both in the chroot and in the server?
(ltspfs / ltspfsd ?)
I copied over the ones in /usr/... and /opt/... yes, I didn't chroot though..
ltspfs goes in the server: http://packages.ubuntu.com/lucid/all/ltspfs/filelist
ltspfsd in the chroot: http://packages.ubuntu.com/lucid/all/ltspfsd/filelist
ufffff at last! now i can login to ltsp client :D
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alkisg, vagrantc can one of you bug the new fedora maintainer to start hanging out in here?
johnny: did he really take up maintaining ltsp? I didn't see any answers from warren...
well warren left fedora
so he might not ever check his ltsp-developers subscribed email
maybe he needs to be bugged more directly
this situation needs to be resolved
not being able to install ltsp on fedora13 is b a d bad
there's no reason it can't support nbd now
since he can use dracut
|12:23||* alkisg isn't the right person for any fedora-related conversations anyway, as he never used fedora...|
But if there was a new maintainer, shouldn't he ask for commit rights etc?
Well, imho, if he doesn't care to ask for commit rights, then... :-/
maybe he's still waiting
i'm just suggesting that he be offered commit rights
unless he's still having trouble becoming the maintainer of the fedora packages themselves
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I believe the correct way would be for him to resolve any issues, then come again here (as he came in the first place) or mail the ML and ask for commit rights... Giving them to someone that didn't even ask and didn't yet contribute anything doesn't sound right to me... But then again I'm probably the newest member so my opinion doesn't matter much :)
well it sounds like the process is more rigorous than necessary
giving before contributing is no problem
altho dvcs makes it easier to do so
"I also have a prototype project in mind to eventually revamp LTSP in Fedora with a far more efficient approach to thin clients and remote desktops."
So I wonder if warren has something else in mind for fedora...
well, i would hope they would be working upstream with us
if not.. then they are big liaris
liaris sounds worse:)
that is.. unless the ltsp developers were against his ideas at BTS or some hackfest
but i think i would have heard about that
alkisg, no dice. theres a file in the list for ltspfs that is not in the source package, (well it is there, just not compiled) /usr/bin/lbmount , and one in ltspfsd /lib/udev/rules.d/80-ltspfsd.rules that latter one doesn't even exist in a .c file, and a find doesn't come up with any results..
Luke_Wolf: ok, I think it was worth a shot, just revert them (or reinstall the packages)...
No other ideas from me :)
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our original process involved the distros determining who had commit rights
ideally, warren would have added a new person to work on fedora... in absence of that...
without that, i'd want to actually see some branch merges to bring it up to speed that didn't break everything for everyone else
i don't think that's too much to ask
i don't really known how fedora works, but i'd be ideal if fedora would have some mechanism of saying "yes, this person is the new LTSP fedora person"
debian has an MIA process for when people go unresponsive
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|12:50||* alkisg reads a paper about a caching nfs client... "and improves on the basic client by up to a factor of 14 when reading from files that are cached locally."|
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If we were able to cache a fat client image to a usb stick with such an nfs client, it would make possible to run almost unlimited fat clients on a low speed network...
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alkisg, i have some atom boxes with sdcard/compact flash ide interfaces
Here we mostly use netbooks as fat clients (many students bring their own to the school)
There are also a few modern pc labs, but only a few. In both those cases caching could be done on the local disk...
ah.. well usb would be perfect then
it's not perfect for us tho.. :(
somebody would steal it or lose it
Don't those have internal usb ports?
But anyway, sure, caching isn't for all cases. Where applicable though I think it would help a lot.
Broadcasting could also be used, so that when a client asks for some part of a file, all clients get it and update their copies. Hmmm... sounds like a good project for google summer of code :D ...
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Guys, i have a weird problem, being inside ltsp client, in gnome sessión, the Applications Menu does no have anything... any tip?
does not show the apps menu
then you didn't install the apps ?
but if you emerged the entirety of gnome it should show up
if that's not the case, your problem is not with ltsp, but gentoo
to confirm it's not an ltsp problem, you could log into the server directly...
ah yes :)
|13:24||* johnny pokes vagrantc|
even if i'm dumb.. i'm sure ya'll missed me
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johnny: i believe you didnt think in the question you made :P
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of course all apps are installed
johnny: and when i log into server the application menu does show
that seems unlikely
i don't even see how it's possible
as you are logged directly into the server, so all apps should show
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unless it defaulted to fatclient somehow? or localapps got triggered strangely
johnny: yeah, pretty weird...
gentoo has no fat client support
ah, peerhaps on the local apps.. but seems unlikely
knipwim, are you about?
|13:42||* vagrantc wonders how it got patched out|
vagrantc, it's OS specific
debian doesn't have good support for fatclients, but the code's all there and does work
pretty sure it's under Distro/
it's mostly just ldm hooks
|13:43||* [GuS] re-emerging gnome-menus just in case|
johnny: to make it easy to use is distro specific, but the core functionality is all there
[GuS]: so if you press alt+f2 => xterm, that xterm is on the server?
|13:45||* alkisg thinks Gus was logging in with a local user in the chroot previously...|
alkisg: that was fixed, so no :)
i am logged in into the remote server
What do you get with "echo $XDG_DATA_DIRS" ?
Uhm except for 's/gdm/gnome', that sounds reasonable...
also when i try to "Edit menu" does nothing
And if you run `alacarte` (the menu editor) from the console? Any messages?
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ok fixed D
What was it?
deleted gnome-applications.menu and regenerated it again, so i believe gentoo based...weird that only happen in my user
so 've cleaned my home and did that too
hm.. I guess I should have made backups of those various files, because after a few reinstalls of ltspfs and ltspfsd, I'm not back to the previous state.. who's the person in charge of the Fedora side of this or theoretically in charge?
fedora's kind of abandoned, at the moment
Luke_Wolf: it used to be warren togami, but he's stopped doing fedora stuff as best i can tell. someone tried to take over maintainership, but i don't rightly know where they're at.
Luke_Wolf: Gavin Spurgeon <firstname.lastname@example.org> asked if they could take over the fedora maintenence
someone was mentioning the issue earlier today
it really is a shame to not have active fedora support at the moment ... even though i'm a debian loyalist :)
vagrantc: have you mooed today?
|14:15||* alkisg thinks we need to change the irc topic to something more appropriate :D|
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there.. he's been emailed
Luke_Wolf, or you could just switch to ubuntu
but hopefully fedora will come back alive
well.. I switched from ubuntu because I felt the newer versions were locking me out of customization and I didn't like the way their default gnome setup was going, although that could have and probably was just the gnome updates.. (I mean how much longer till we get a new gdmsetup?).. I do miss the ubuntu version of the packagekit, but otherwise I've been pretty happy with Fedora..
fedora has a different tool than ubuntu for gdm setup?
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currently there is no gdm tool in fedora, because they're waiting on the gnome developers to eventually (like when duke nukem forever comes out) write their replacement tool, you can do some stuff with directly modifying files, but..
the only thing you can do with the login screen is changing the background
yeah, and doing so is a bit of a pain
I don't think any distro can be blamed for the gnome tools that don't yet exist though...
A basic gdmsetup was implemented for lucid, but something better should be implemented upstream..
yeah, I agree distros can't be blamed, but I do prefer the scheme that fedora takes, over the schemes that ubuntu did when I used it
does someone has a guide that could possible make work localdevs and sound on think client?
i've tried some, and does not work
there is no guide neeeded
for usb devices and cd readers
for scanners and cd burning, there is no support
in ltsp at all
it's more likely that you have a software bug
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but someone made it possible in any distro? :P
well, printers does work in my case
and i've switched (bah.. ir our company) to v5 to see is this was improved
it worked in gentoo at one point
it worked for me when i was working on it
i have no idea what packages might be broken these days tho
it could be that your kernel in the chroot doesn't have drivers for your hardware
you'll have to check that
well, indeed it has
and i did loaded the driver in lts.conf
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/opt/ltsp/x86/lib/modules/2.6.34-gentoo-r1/kernel/sound/pci/hda/snd-hda-intel.ko | SMODULE_01 = "snd-hda-intel"
you shouldn't have to specific any modules
well... just in case...
don't do that
remove all specifics that aren't required from lts.conf
and then start reading logs when you try to play sounds
and also check to see if the pulseaudio process is doing anything
ok, i will
well guys, thanks... at least today i made some progress on ltsp5 gentoo
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I would switch to KDE but their packagekit is kind of meh, and kwin doesn't really support nouveau yet..
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I'm seeting an error "tftp: client does not accept options" in my syslog, as well as a complaint that tftp doesn't have permission to open the partition I'm using for nbd.
Are the two related? Or not really?
tftp has nothing to do with nbd
What's the exact message for that?
alkisg: I need coffee. The permission denied message was from nbd_server, not tftp (which I thought it was from)
My mistake :)
|16:27||* Kyle__ had actually just added the tftp user to the disk group... not what he needed.|
Kyle__, the not accept options is rarely a problem
i used to see it all the time
before i got newer clients
Yea, I just confused two lines.
Is there any good reason _not_ to switch inetd to using the nbd user instead of nobody for nbdrootd?
|16:29||* Kyle__ really isn't confortable with putting the user nobody in the disk group.|
|16:32||* Kyle__ is actually kindof surprised that P4 dell workstations would be considered old for tftp clients.|
Why would you put the nobody user in the disk group?
"tftp clients" ==> tftp is just to download the kernel, it isn't used after that, so even a 15 year old pc can be used as a "tftp client"...
(maybe you meant nbd clients?)
alkisg: I know.
inetd is using the user "nobody" for the nbdrootd server.
So the choice is chmod the block device used for an image, or add the user who's running the nbdrootd server to the disk group.
Ah ok you use a block device. Sure you can change that specific line in inetd.conf...
Is there any good reason not to?
Before I go mucking about in everything :)
|16:38||* alkisg can't think of anything|
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|16:51||* alkisg1 just changed his inetd.conf to export /dev/sda3 with the nbd user (in disk group), it worked fine...|
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hm... So I can mount the dvd drive locally using tty2.. the question is how to get it to be usable..
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is it possible (and or advisiable) to run an ssh server on ltsp fat clients?
Kyle__: it's definitely possible
Kyle__: I'd personally advice against running a public ssh server where anyone can login because of limited memory, but for admin access it has been working great for us
vmlintu_: OK. How did you go about setting it up? I'm using ubuntu based fat-clients, and tried just installing the ssh-server via apt. It didn't exactly work :) Couldn't log in nomatter what.
Which user are you using to login?
I tried my own user, as well as some others.
Does the user exist in chroot's /etc/passwd?
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No, just in the server's. That's the issue?
If you don't have pam rules set up to read the users from the server, then it needs the users locally in chroot
Ah I see.
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hm.. can I mount a drive locally in a terminal and then connect to it?
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hm... perhaps connect to it as if its a server?..
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Is there a way to manually connect to a local drive?
i dont understand
locally, as in mount a drive on a client?
local is a term that needs to be qualified round here i guess
yes, manually mount a local dvd drive on a client, so I can see it from LDM, rather than just TTY2
not that i'm aware of
would kinda work if mounted on the server
but how would I mount it on the server?
put it in the dvd drive of the server :)
i guess if you mounted it on the filesystem somewhere the client would see the same
yeah, the trick is getting it to mount on the server filesystem rather than just on local however..
(I'm trying to figure out a workaround for my dvd drive on the client not mounting... and manually mounting seems like it would be the best if I could figure out how to make the bits work together..)
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I mean clearly it can mount local devices because I can mount a usb drive, but why it is screwing up on the dvd drive... I'm still trying to figure out..
what file or script manages mounting local devices?
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or is there a log for this somewhere?
hm.. okay I can ssh at 127.0.0.1 ... maybe I can ssh from the terminal and mount on the server that way?
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hm.. of course the problem with that is I need to find a decent guide to ssh.. since clearly ssh (IP) doesn't cut it..
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Say, how do you set up an ARM system to act as a thin-client (though not really truly "thin") to an x86 box?
I have a beagleboard, and there's no way to netboot, but I can boot from SD card.
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any fedora users
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Is there a port that's left open for connecting to the server via ssh that I can use from the local tty2?
because as entertaining as it might sound, going from port 1 to 9999 would be annoying at the least..
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okay nmap works for that
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Say, does anyone know how to get a non-netbootable system that does have a local drive, to attach to an ltsp server?
Specifically, the ARM beagleboard.
Local drive is SD card, but I want to use it as an LTSP client to an X86 box.
ssh or vnc maybe?
DanaG: well, first you'd need an arm chroot and either a very small kernel+initrd to chainboot (kexec) to what's on the tftp or some kind of PXE simulator (as PXE doesn't exist on ARM)
ogra would know more though he's probably asleep at the moment
It doesn't really have to be "thin", but it does need to do automatic remote desktop to some other system.
hm.. does the network address of the server change depending on whether I'm using local apps (in this case tty2) vs the ldm client?
hmm, this seems to be doing something:
sudo ltsp-build-client --arch armel --mirror http://ports.ubuntu.com
And if it gives me a "chroot" FS... then I can just deploy that as the real root!
The last challenge will be figuring out how to tell it what server to use -- since I can't etherboot.
well, if you just put the generate chroot in the ROM (needs to be smaller than 256MB) or on SD, then all you need is a /etc/lts.conf containing your configuration
at least: LDM_SERVER = <IP of the server>
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cp: cannot stat `/usr/bin/qemu-arm-eabi': No such file or directory qemu-arm-eabi not found ! chroot: failed to run command `debootstrap/debootstrap': No such file or directory error: LTSP client installation ended abnormally
qemu-arm-eabi: command not found
SO it doesn't exist.
that's when you do a ltsp-build-client from a non-arm system I guess ?
you may need qemu-kvm-extras-static outside and inside the chroot for ltsp-build-client to work on i386 building an armel chroot
ah. I don't know how to put it inside the chroot. Right now, not even the host has qemu-arm-eabi.
There's qemu-arm-static, but not qemu-arm-eabi
hmm, would building on ARM host work, then?
can you try replacing /usr/bin/qemu-arm-eabi by /usr/bin/qemu-arm-static in /usr/share/ltsp/plugins/ltsp-build-client/Ubuntu/010-debootstrap
I know that the cross-arch change was uploaded without much tests and that was a while ago. I never tried booting ltsp on my beagleboard yet ;)
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ah, sure, I'll try that.
well I've almost got the ssh figured out.. just need to get it to accept the password authentication to work... then theoretically I should be able to mount sr0 onto the server..
ah, that change seems to have worked... or at least, qemu is doing stuff.
Say, does that qemu run a full VM, or just somehow run certain binaries?
W: Failed to fetch http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/maverick-updates/multiverse/binary-armel/Packages.gz 404 Not Found [IP: 184.108.40.206 80]
E: Some index files failed to download, they have been ignored, or old ones used instead.
error: LTSP client installation ended abnormally
Time to just build arm chroot on arm.
you need to use ports.ubuntu.com instead of archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu
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sudo ltsp-build-client --arch armel --mirror http://ports.ubuntu.com
Even on ARM host, it still tries to use security.ubuntu.com!
hooray for hardcoded paths!
ah, needs a separate security-mirror!
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So, I ended up having to do:
sudo ltsp-build-client --arch armel --mirror http://ports.ubuntu.com --security-mirror http://ports.ubuntu.com --updates-mirror http://ports.ubuntu.com
and it worked?
do you have a bootable client?