IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 11 September 2012   (all times are UTC)

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03:10
<k4m3h4t3>
somebody help me
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03:42
<alkisg>
stgraber: ogra said it was needed, and a user here confirmed that it worked, that's about all I know about jetpipe :)
03:42
!ask | echo k4m3h4t3:
03:42
<ltsp>
k4m3h4t3: ask: Don't ask to ask a question, simply ask it, and if someone knows the answer, they'll respond. Please hang around for at least a full hour after asking a question, as not everybody constantly monitors the channel.
03:47
<k4m3h4t3>
i was install edubuntu 12.04.1 and option lstp was active but why i can't find ltsp after instaltion finish
03:48
!ask installation ltsp
03:48
<ltsp>
Error: "ask" is not a valid command.
03:48
<k4m3h4t3>
!ask
03:48
<ltsp>
ask: Don't ask to ask a question, simply ask it, and if someone knows the answer, they'll respond. Please hang around for at least a full hour after asking a question, as not everybody constantly monitors the channel.
03:54
<stgraber>
alkisg: hmm, ok... would have to check the python code, because although it surely works to just spawn it in the background, it's wrong as jetpipe is supposed to do that itself...
03:55
<alkisg>
stgraber: it might also be related to the fact that it's now run from pid 1, init, although I can't imagine why exactly...
03:56
k4m3h4t3: so now you don't have ltsp installed? dpkg-query -W ltsp-server
03:57
<stgraber>
alkisg: yeah, can't see why that'd have any effect, would have to try and run it to figure out what's going on
03:57
alkisg: based on the code, it should always background itself unless called with -d
03:58
<alkisg>
When I run `bash` from init, it says "no job control available", dunno why bash says that, but it might be related somehow
03:58
(and then & works... !)
04:01
<k4m3h4t3>
the result :ltsp-server 5.3.7-0ubuntu.2.2
04:01
alkisg the result :ltsp-server 5.3.7-0ubuntu.2.2
04:01
<alkisg>
k4m3h4t3: so, you do have ltsp installed, are you trying to find it in the menus?
04:02
<k4m3h4t3>
i was try. but i can't find in the menus
04:02
<alkisg>
LTSP doesn't have any menus
04:02
<k4m3h4t3>
yes
04:02
<alkisg>
Always
04:02
Not just in your installation. In general, ltsp doesn't offer any menus in gnome or other desktop environments
04:03
<k4m3h4t3>
usuaaly place in the menus, don't you? or in place application/other
04:03
<alkisg>
It's a set of services, not some program that you run from a menu
04:03
<k4m3h4t3>
so what should i do
04:04
<alkisg>
Boot a thin client?
04:05
<k4m3h4t3>
why if i try live cd i can find ltsp in the menus or icon. but if instal in my laptop can't find in the menus or icon
04:06
<alkisg>
The live cd has a "start ltsp" menu
04:06
When you install it, ltsp always runs, you don't have to start it
04:08
<k4m3h4t3>
mean i can't use the aplication?
04:08
<alkisg>
I mean that ltsp already runs, and you can start a thin client with it
04:09
You don't have to "see" an application to use it
04:10
<k4m3h4t3>
oh... mean ltsp has install in my laptop?
04:11
<alkisg>
Yes
04:12
<k4m3h4t3>
and then how do i use ltsp ltsp if the icon was not there ? like configuration ethernet
04:12
<alkisg>
Those tasks are not related to ltsp, there's no "ltsp icon" for them
04:13
To configure the network, you either use the network manager applet, or edit /etc/network/interfaces
04:17
<k4m3h4t3>
oh so. furthermore, if I reserve the 2 computers, one server edubuntu another windows. how configure? cause not icon in place
04:17
<alkisg>
Configure what?
04:18
Really, LTSP doesn't have a configuration icon
04:18
You edit text files to configure the related services
04:18
<k4m3h4t3>
so that the client computer can use ltsp
04:18
<alkisg>
You enable "PXE" in the bios
04:20
<k4m3h4t3>
then whether in its existing configuration server computer to do?...
04:21
<alkisg>
I didn't understand that question, say it again with other words
04:22
<k4m3h4t3>
You enable "PXE" in the bios <<< this in computer client. don't you?
04:22
<alkisg>
Yes
04:22
That's to tell the client to boot from the network
04:24
<k4m3h4t3>
and the computer server? must be configure?
04:25
<alkisg>
Not its, BIOS, no
04:25
If you change the server IP, then you need to make some changes in the configuration files with gedit
04:26
But if you don't change the IP, it should work now
04:26
<k4m3h4t3>
mean in computer server automaticly configure>
04:28
<alkisg>
Yes, once, when you install it
04:29
<k4m3h4t3>
oh.. i see .. i see..
04:29
looks like I need a tutorial further. Can anyone help me?
04:30
<alkisg>
Better read the ltsp documentation
04:30
!docs
04:30
<ltsp>
docs: For the most current documentation, see https://sourceforge.net/apps/mediawiki/ltsp/index.php?title=Ltsp_LtspDocumentationUpstream
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05:08
<k4m3h4t3>
alkisg thanks.. i will donlot
05:09
alkisg i have any ask
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07:06
<k4m3h4t3>
wb alkish
07:06
alkisg
07:06
<alkisg>
Hello
07:07
<k4m3h4t3>
i stiil have any ask. hehehe
07:21
<Hyperbyte>
!ask
07:21
<ltsp>
ask: Don't ask to ask a question, simply ask it, and if someone knows the answer, they'll respond. Please hang around for at least a full hour after asking a question, as not everybody constantly monitors the channel.
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07:23
<k4m3h4t3>
if i instal edubuntu 12.04+ltsp in virtualbox. can work?
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07:25
<alkisg>
Yes
07:26
<k4m3h4t3>
how about in client. can work?
07:27
<alkisg>
Yes
07:27
<Hyperbyte>
Interesting... is there any noticable slowdown when running a thin client server inside a VM?
07:27
<alkisg>
Depends on the virtualization technology, vbox is usually 10% slower wrt cpu
07:28
<k4m3h4t3>
Hyperbyte : it's very slow?
07:30
<Bootless>
Nearly every virtualization slows down the virtual machine
07:30
<Hyperbyte>
Well I wouldn't use vbox, I'd use qemu-kvm
07:30
<sep>
k4m3h4t3, 10% reduction is not "very slow" it's a bit slower then running native, but that's expected with virtualization
07:30
<Bootless>
depends on how much machines you virtualize on one host
07:31
<Hyperbyte>
Wait - I'm not talking about capacity, I'm talking about speed
07:31
<Bootless>
me too?
07:31
<k4m3h4t3>
i see i see. ok. thanks before. but i must go now. c u letter everybody. thanks
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07:32
<Hyperbyte>
No, I mean - when using thin clients which log into an LTSP server in a VM, will my interface be slower?
07:32
I mean noticably slower.
07:32
<alkisg>
Hyperbyte: kvm is usually faster than vbox, as long as the cpu is supported
07:32
<Hyperbyte>
Talking about latency here...
07:33
alkisg, you mean if the CPU has virtualization built into chipset, right?
07:33
<Bootless>
I think with one server and one client you don't notice a latency
07:33
<alkisg>
Yeah
07:34
<Hyperbyte>
Yeah, noticed that at the radio station... had a dual Xeon server which was a bit dated... didn't support kernel virtualization, but we though that much raw computing power would cut it anyways
07:34
Man did we come back from that. :/
07:36
I'm thinking of virtualizing everything here at work
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07:37
<Hyperbyte>
Right now we have about five servers, I'd like to reduce that to one. Will also make system upgrades a whole lot easier. I could just create a clone of the LTSP server, run my software updates, test them, see how they work etc... and when I'm satisfied switch the clone over to the real server
07:37
<Bootless>
We use in our ltsp cluster 3 ESXi server and virtualize with them
07:38
<Hyperbyte>
:)
07:39
<sep>
Hyperbyte, debian+kvm+libvirt and virt-manager for the pointy clicity admins, very nice
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07:42
<muppis>
Isn't ESXi much like that? kvm/libvirt can be controlled via virsh as well. ;)
07:47
<Hyperbyte>
sep, except that I'd do Fedora where you do Debian. :)
07:48
<sep>
muppis, esxi is vmware, kvm + libvirt is just apt-get install kvm virt-manager ; done :)
07:49
in fedora world i assume you replace apt-get with yum... ? :)
07:50
<alkisg>
Hyperbyte: linux can be cloned to different hardware very easily, so /me doesn't bother with virtualization at all... :)
07:51
<muppis>
sep, I know. I use kvm as daily basis. :)
07:51
<sep>
muppis, what you use for disk image storage ?
07:51
...(i think this is off topic) :P
07:52
<muppis>
sep, varies, bu mostly lvm or iscsi.
07:52
<sep>
so you have a iscsi san ?
07:53
just another nix box ? or a dedicated san ?
07:53
<Hyperbyte>
alkisg, it's a lot easier to choose 'clone machine' in a GUI and have your new test machine, than to go to the boss with a hardware request, clone the OS, add it in the server room, do your testing, then discard the machine...
07:54
<muppis>
sep, drbd/pacemaker based san.
07:54
<alkisg>
Hyperbyte: rsync is much easier than installing esxi etc :)
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07:54
<Hyperbyte>
alkisg, trust me - once you go virtual you'll never go back. :P
07:54
<alkisg>
Nah, that's good for windows only :P
07:54
<Hyperbyte>
Not true
07:55
At the radio station we have lots of different servers, for different purposes
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07:55
<Hyperbyte>
We used to have 8 servers in our rack, six of which were Linux
07:55
There's now only 3 left, and one will be gone as soon as I get time to virtualize it
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07:57
<alkisg>
Whenever I need VMs, I run them inside a master linux server, not inside esxi or xen etc... but maybe I haven't had need for large scale installations yet (and I probably never will)
07:57
We do have esxi on some servers, but not ones that I maintain myself..
08:00
<sep>
muppis, iow basically built your own ? :) nice
08:02
alkisg, i have about 40 linux machines on a linux kvm machine. the rackspace/cooling/power reduction is veeery nice :) not to mention the reduction in servers. network hardware and similar
08:03* alkisg would try lxc for that, or VMs over a plain linux installation (not kvm) otherwise
08:03
<alkisg>
But anyways, I'm not using any installations with multiple servers, so I'm not entitled to talk :)
08:05
<sep>
alkisg, well... i have windows hosts on the same as well :)
08:06* alkisg doesn't doubt the benefit of VMs, but the benefit of esxi/xen etc vs a normal linux server under the VMs
08:07
<sep>
alkisg, lxc is like vservers? i used that beforce, but then i needed different kernel versions.. and hence kvm ..
08:08
<alkisg>
Yeah I think lxc needs the same kernel, but you can still run any VM technology, vbox, kvm, vmware over a plain linux server instead of esxi/xen
08:08
<sep>
alkisg, i use plain debian
08:09
<alkisg>
Then we don't have any difference in opinions! :)
08:10
<sep>
i probably just misunderstood you,.
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13:19
<k4m3h4t3>
hello
13:19
<mealstrom>
hi
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13:30
<k4m3h4t3>
hello
13:31
<gvy>
hi
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13:38
<k4m3h4t3>
hello
13:38
<knipwim>
hi
13:40
<k4m3h4t3>
what mean boot pxe and thin?
13:41
<knipwim>
http://wiki.ltsp.org/wiki/PXE
13:41
thin means all user programs run on the server
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13:42
<k4m3h4t3>
mean we dont need client?
13:44
<knipwim>
no, it means the program runs on the server, but it's output is shown on the client
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13:48
<||cw>
k4m3h4t3: it means the client doens't have to be powerful enough to run the applications, since they run on the server
13:49
k4m3h4t3: "thin" also refers to reduced hardware at the clients. no hard drive (pxe boot instead) and less ram needed
13:53
<k4m3h4t3>
is it two different things?
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14:06
<gvy>
in general, yes
14:06
a thin client can be booted from its local hdd but otherwise showing remote apps running on a server
14:07
or a "fat" client can be diskless with networked boot/filesystem but running apps locally
14:08
<k4m3h4t3>
i see isee
14:09
when we use HDD ltsp revoked or not?
14:14
<gvy>
ltsp can help with both these things or any of them: remote boot ("diskless") and remote apps ("thin")
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14:21
<k4m3h4t3>
gvy : goog answer. its make more understand
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14:24
<k4m3h4t3>
*good
14:25
<gvy>
YW :-)
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14:51
<k4m3h4t3>
gvy are you using ltsp?
14:53
<thebwt>
is there a sane way to do ltsp with 2 monitors?
14:53
<gvy>
k4m3h4t3, sorta... http://en.altlinux.org/LTSP
14:54
<k4m3h4t3>
why not edubuntu?
14:54
<gvy>
'cause it would not even work on 64m clients when I looked at it
14:55
or due to the difference in fundamental approaches with sabdfl
14:55
<ogra_>
you probably looked not friendly enough :)
14:55* ogra_ knows alkisg runs his school just fine on 64M clients with edubuntu
14:55
<gvy>
ogra_, well I even reported it IIRC :) 5.10 beta wouldn't finish booting the client
14:55
good :-)
14:55
<ogra_>
5.10 ?!?
14:56
thats 7 years ago
14:56
<gvy>
we fixed that for 16m clients back then and suggested a stripped-down kernel with swap-over-net if you might remember
14:56
or 6.10 even
14:56
doesn't make a huge difference by now
14:56
<ogra_>
six still :)
14:56
well, you dont think the code evolved over 6 years ?
14:57
i think 80% pf the python code was ripped out over these years
14:57
*of
14:57
<k4m3h4t3>
oh
14:58
<ogra_>
and replaced by something less ressource hungry
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15:01
<mnevans>
Hello LTSP world. I'm having a problem booting clients: Ubuntu 12.04 server and amd64 clients.
15:02
The problem seems to be that nbd-server will not start: dmesg indicates a segmentation fault.
15:02
While I figure out what's wrong there, can you tell me how to go back to isc-dhcp-server running the show?
15:02
Thanks in advance.
15:03
Or if anyone's seen this, best way to fix what appears to be a broken nbd-server.
15:05
<gvy>
ogra_, I hope that at least some initial curves have been ironed out :)
15:05
<ogra_>
lost did
15:05
<thebwt>
mnevans: back to ics-dhcp? were you doing proxyDHCP?
15:05
<ogra_>
*lots
15:07
<thebwt>
mnevans: if you aren't using a standard dhcp setup, you need to manually specify the nbd-server's adress in pxelinux.cfg/default
15:08
<knipwim>
ogra_: were you the one with the pandaboards?
15:08
or was that someone else in #ltsp
15:08
<mnevans>
@thebwt: I think I am using a standard dhcp setup: server has two NICs; LAN is 192.168.0.1 and clients are 192.168.0.{range}.
15:08
<thebwt>
mnevans: doh but re-reading your query, "sudo service nbd-server start" is what segfaults
15:09
<ogra_>
knipwim, i do have a bunch of pandas, but others do too
15:10
<mnevans>
@thebwt, yes: nbd-server start is what segfaults. I have tried ltsp-update-kernels and ltsp-update-image. No errors. I was wondering if anyone else has seen this;
15:10
or maybe I should look into nbd-server problems in another forum.
15:11
<knipwim>
ogra_: was wondering specifically about the pxe boot
15:11
but apparently there's a u-boot patch for that
15:13
<ogra_>
knipwim, all ubuntu u-boot versions default to PXE if they dont find a kernel locally
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15:17
<mnevans>
... I can't find anything on google about nbd-server and a segmentation fault problem since 2007...
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15:38
<mnevans>
Anyone know where I can get help on nbd-server on Ubuntu? I tried reinstalling it and restarting it, but there's no indication it actually did, in dmesg.
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15:44
<alkisg>
mnevans: put the result of this command to pastebin: grep -r '' /etc/nbd-server
15:44
gvy: what are the current kernel + ram requirements for ltsp in altlinux?
15:44
<mnevans>
Ah Alkisg, my hero.
15:45
@alkisg: http://pastebin.com/w1QxvcdA
15:46
<alkisg>
12.04 can still boot with 64mb ram clients if one removes plymouth from the initramfs, but kernel + X take up all the RAM, I don't know how we could lower that part
15:46
<ogra_>
alkisg, MODULES=dep ;)
15:46
<alkisg>
ogra_: dep == the server hardware though, not the clients... right?
15:47
mnevans: sudo service nbd-server restart
15:47
sudo netstat -nap|grep 10809
15:47
<ogra_>
alkisg, well, then either list or just use /etc/initramfs-tools/modules
15:47
<alkisg>
ogra_: and any hints for lower X usage? E.g. xvesa needs 10% of the ram that xorg needs... :-/
15:47
<ogra_>
point is, if you drop the modules you will free a lot of RAM the initrd would usually eat
15:48
<alkisg>
ogra_: but the initramfs memory is freed after boot, right?
15:48
<ogra_>
alkisg, ever tried xfbdev on x86 ?
15:48
yes, its freed up but will definitely leave you more room for switching over to the nbd root
15:48
<alkisg>
I mean, I tried with huge initramfs or with small initramfs, and at the point of init=/bin/bash, both needed the same amount of ram
15:48
<gvy>
alkisg, 16m :)
15:48
<alkisg>
gvy: what kernel?
15:49
<mnevans>
@alkisg: here is output after sudo service nbd-server-restart from dmesg: http://pastebin.com/PwsWwKhC
15:49
<ogra_>
16M with a distro kernel ?
15:49
<gvy>
2.6.27 in release, 2.6.32 in beta (which isn't *that* much polished)
15:49
<ogra_>
alt must have bad HW support or super clever kernel maintainers :)
15:49
<gvy>
ogra_, ALT ships several kernels
15:49
the latter :]
15:50
(half a joke as you guessed)
15:50
<ogra_>
well, ubuntu ships several kernels too
15:50
<alkisg>
gvy, and xorg or xvesa?
15:50
<gvy>
the trick is considering the lines
15:50
alkisg, usually native xorg drivers
15:50
<alkisg>
mnevans: looks like a clear nbd-server problem, I'd report that to launchpad, or bugs.debian.net
15:50
<gvy>
DISCLAIMER: not trolling but rather sync() :-)
15:51
<ogra_>
sad, i thought we were trolling
15:51
:P
15:51
<gvy>
just in case, beta images here: ftp://ftp.linux.kiev.ua/pub/Linux/ALT/people/mike/iso/terminal/
15:51
ogring then :-]
15:51
<ogra_>
haha
15:51
<mnevans>
@alkisg: seems so, but I am not sure. For one thing, an i386 client with image built on May 22 does reboot successfully. Why would nbd-server work for that?
15:52
<alkisg>
mnevans: sudo netstat -nap | grep 10809
15:52
<mnevans>
@alkisg: that returns: tcp 0 0 0.0.0.0:10809 0.0.0.0:* LISTEN 43107/nbd-server
15:52
<alkisg>
gvy: how do 16mb ram clients cope with X pixmap caching? E.g. firefox here can take up to 500mb of local ram when one visits a badly designed site (not localapp, running on server)
15:53
mnevans: that's strange, so, segfaulting AND running after the segfault?
15:53
mnevans: are you sure that dmesg line was produced because of the restart command?
15:53
Or was it produced when a client tried to connect?
15:54
<mnevans>
Well, something is letting the i386 client start. And I am writing you from an amd64 client that hasn't been rebooted since this problem surfaced yesterday.
15:55
<alkisg>
mnevans: well, run: dmesg | tail; sudo service nbd-server restart; dmesg | tail
15:55
...and see if there's a new line there just after the restart
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15:56
<alkisg>
If it's an old line, then it's not related to restarting, but to client connections
15:56
<gvy>
alkisg, hence the swap-over-net patches mentioned again
15:56
<alkisg>
Which then makes sense, since it's a forked process, not the main nbd-server process
15:56
gvy: are those different than the upstream nbd swap support in ltsp?
15:56
<gvy>
alkisg, you get deadlocks with current vanilla kernels
15:57
<alkisg>
gvy: the problem with swap over the network is that it's basically unusable, when ram is not enough
15:57
<gvy>
there are common/similar and different aspects to nbd/nfs swap but overall, the patches aren't still in mainline
15:57
<mnevans>
I *think* isc-dhcp-server is running: see http://pastebin.com/aR5DjBDE
15:57
<alkisg>
We're not getting crashes, but the clients then are unusably slow
15:57
<gvy>
zijlstra works on that and suse ships them
15:57
<alkisg>
mnevans: isc-dhcp is completely unrelated to the nbd-server chat, so no need to mention it at all
15:58
<gvy>
alkisg, well I used to work on 32m client for a few days and on a 64m client for many months (or was that a couple of years?..)
15:58
<alkisg>
gvy: gotcha, that's what I wanted to hear. And it was usable, without real problems?
15:58
<gvy>
sorta eatin' our own dogfood :-)
15:58
<alkisg>
gvy: because in my experience (I tried working on a client with 64 ram), it wasn't for real work
15:58
<gvy>
yes, after having solved the deadlock one
15:59
<alkisg>
No hangs at all. Just really slow
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15:59
<alkisg>
E.g. when firefox hit a page with a jpeg image, whose *uncompressed* size was big enough to use nbd swap (e.g. 50 mb), the client might need more than 1 minute to render it
15:59
<mnevans>
@alkisg: Sorry. Here is output of dmesg | tail; sudo service nbd-server restart; dmesg | tail: http://pastebin.com/wW2eGiBE
15:59
<gvy>
alkisg, as for the best results that were actually shipped to Russian schools, you can test ftp://ftp.linux.kiev.ua/pub/Linux/ALT/4.0/Terminal/current/iso/altlinux-4.0.0-terminal-i586-en-cd.iso
16:00
of course no miracles inside, won't help a browser trying to hit 800m
16:00
<alkisg>
mnevans: so, no entry in dmesg for nbd-server restart
16:00
<gvy>
I'll probably wait aside, parallel discussion is brain weary
16:01
<alkisg>
gvy: thank you for your feedback :)
16:01
<mnevans>
@alkisg: well, no: it is the same message about a segmentation fault I pasted earlier.
16:01
<alkisg>
mnevans: ok, now try to boot a client and see if it produces the segfault line then
16:01
<gvy>
alkisg, hey thank *you* :-)
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16:03
<mnevans>
alkisg: No, it doesn't; but gives this: init: isc-dhcp-server main process (41952) killed by TERM signal
16:06
<alkisg>
mnevans: isc-dhcp is completely unrelated to nbd-server
16:06
Let's take the problems one at a time
16:06
So, when does nbd-server segfault?
16:07
<mnevans>
alkisg: nbd-server segfaults when I try to start it: sudo service nbd-server restart gives two segfault errors:
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16:08
<mnevans>
alkisg: before we get too deep, maybe I should give the server a reboot?
16:09
<alkisg>
mnevans: the dmesg ; restart; dmesg line above suggested that it doesn't give errors when you restart it
16:10
And that the errors in dmesg were older ones
16:10
http://pastebin.com/wW2eGiBE
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16:10
<alkisg>
line 11: [612491.400424] init: isc-dhcp-server main process (41952) killed by TERM signal
16:10
line 25: [612491.400424] init: isc-dhcp-server main process (41952) killed by TERM signal
16:10
So there was no new dmesg line after the restart
16:10
No segfault in the pastebin you sent
16:10
<mnevans>
What about: [612047.075241] nbd-server[40319]: segfault at 50 ip 0000000000402ac9 sp 00007fff841e8cd0 error 4 in nbd-server[400000+a000]
16:11
<alkisg>
See the time
16:11
612047 < 612491 < the nbd restart time
16:11
It's an old dmesg entry, not produced by the restart you just tried
16:12
Try it again; restart it 10 times; it won't produce any new segfaults in dmesg
16:12
<mnevans>
alkisg: OK... and I see the following using ps: nbd 47307 0.0 0.0 22316 920 ? Ss 12:05 0:00 /bin/nbd-server
16:12
Maybe it is running?
16:12
<alkisg>
mnevans: yes, it is running, and we haven't yet found out when it segfaults
16:13
You can't reproduce it currently; try things until you can
16:13
<mnevans>
alkisg: like rebooting a client? What other things do you think might cause nbd-server to segfault?
16:14
<alkisg>
rebooting clients might, sure
16:14
<mnevans>
Would this explain why I still have i386 client booting, and one amd64 client booted (but will likely fail when I try to reboot it)?
16:14
OK, let's see what we can do...
16:15
alkisg: if nbd-server is running, why wouldn't clients boot?
16:15
<alkisg>
Wrong dhcp, tftp, nbd, whatever settings, there are thousands of reasons why clients won't boot
16:16
You need troubleshooting, to report the messages on the clients, etc etc
16:16
<mnevans>
(I realize that's a huge question but there's no indication from screen output on the clients what's wrong. Last line is: "trying to load: pxelinux.cfg/default ok"
16:16
<alkisg>
It's also possible that nbd-server might crash when the clients connect to it
16:16
!quiet-splash
16:16
<ltsp>
quiet-splash: to disable the splash screen in Ubuntu, in order to see any boot error messages, run `sudo gedit /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/pxelinux.cfg/default` and remove quiet splash .
16:18
<mnevans>
alkisg: yes, I get three more lines:
16:19
loading initrd.gz...
16:19
loading vmlinuz...
16:19
loading, please wait...
16:19
(I am typing this from memory and probably got these out of order...)
16:21
alkisg: ps auxw | grep nbd-server gives this output: http://pastebin.com/EeiwnVsY
16:21
There seems to be one line per restart of the thin client.
16:22
<alkisg>
That's normal
16:22
<mnevans>
... and dmesg gives the segmentation fault.
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16:24
<mnevans>
alkisg: So the behavior seems to be: (1) starting an amd64 client causes nbd-server to segfault. (2) Existing amd64 client is unaffected. (3) i386 client can be restarted without problem. (4) amd64 client restart loads vmlinuz and initrd but then hangs.
16:31
alkisg: correction to (1) above: starting an amd64 client doesn't necessarily cause nbd-server to segfault. But it hangs at loading, please wait...
16:32
<alkisg>
Did you manage to segfault nbd-server recently?
16:36
<mnevans>
alkisg: well, at [614192.436183] > [610781.442706] . (About 13 mins and at least two client reboots ago).
16:36
<alkisg>
Did you take note what caused the segfault?
16:36
E.g. booting an amd64 client?
16:37
If you properly removed quiet splash, and the amd64 client hangs at loading kernel, then it doesn't even try to connect to the nbd server. At all.
16:37
<mnevans>
I'd sure like to have, but it's unclear. I had thought it was booting the amd64 client; but then I tried to replicate, and although the client did not boot, nbd-server did not segfault.
16:39
alkisg: more /opt/ltsp/amd64/boot/pxelinux.cfg/default : http://pastebin.com/53tAeT6x
16:40
Let me try another client reboot now.
16:41
alkisg: can I safely delete "plymouth:force-splash: as well?
16:42
<alkisg>
mnevans: yes, do so
16:42
mnevans: also vt handoff
16:43
<mnevans>
... another thin client reboot - no more information. Let me try those additional boot option changes and retry...
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16:48
<mnevans>
alkisg: OK, another thin client reboot with plymouth:force-splash and vt handoff=7 deleted. A lot more messaging but it flew by too quickly to read. Is it logged somewhere (or can I turn that on?)
16:48
(and no segfault).
16:49
<alkisg>
mnevans: boot an amd64 client and see where it stops
16:49
<||cw>
dmesg should show it all again, right?
16:49
<mnevans>
Stops at...[going over to look...]
16:49
<alkisg>
Usually dmesg can't be accessed when the client hangs...
16:50
<||cw>
ah true
16:50
<mnevans>
alkisg and ||cw: It stops at plymouthd: ... assertion failed...
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16:50
<||cw>
only other way I know of is a serial console with a scrollback buffer or log
16:50
<alkisg>
mnevans: that's very late in the boot process, probably at the point where X should start
16:51
mnevans: try this in pxelinux.cfg/default: ltsp.break=50-fstab break=50-fstab
16:51
(I don't remember which of those 2 options are valid for 12.04, but one of them should work and give you a shell)
16:52
<mnevans>
alkisg: Yes. Try that on another line or in the append... statement? (sorry if this is a stupid question)
16:54
<alkisg>
mnevans: put it in the same line where quiet splash were
16:55
<mnevans>
alkisg: roger that.
16:55
<gvy>
*bang*bang*bang*
16:55
<thebwt>
is there a sane way to do ltsp with 2 monitors? We keep getting monitors flipping.
16:56
<gvy>
thebwt, maybe a fixed xorg.conf?..
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16:57
<alkisg>
XRANDR* commands can handle 2 monitors
17:03
<mnevans>
alkisg: OK, I added those to the append in default, and things scroll by a little more slowly; but I don't know what that did otherwise. Still no segfault.
17:04
And the client hung at the same point: plymouthd ... assertion failed...
17:06
<alkisg>
mnevans: it appears that break=50-fstab didn't work. Try putting SCREEN_07=shell in lts.conf, so that X doesn't start
17:06
[Default]
17:06
SCREEN_07=shell
17:06
<mnevans>
alkisg: I am struck by your comment: "that's very late in the boot process, probably at the point where X should start." Could a recent xorg upgade or xorg.conf be the problem?
17:07
...I think you read my mind (what little there is). Let me try that.
17:11
alkisg: I think some progress. adding that line to lts.conf (for the stanza of that client) gives me a console prompt.
17:11
<alkisg>
mnevans: lspci -nn -k | grep -A2 VGA
17:14
<mnevans>
alkisg: video card is: Radeon HD6310 (AMD "Wrestler") and the radeon driver is being used.
17:14
I wonder if I need to reinstall the fglrx driver into the chroot?
17:16
per one of our past exchanges: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/AMDE-350
17:18
...Or else remove the /opt/ltsp/amd64/etc/X11/xorg.conf that points to the fglrx driver, as it appears I have video under the free radeon driver?
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17:37
<mnevans>
alkisg: OK, I tried just changing /opt/ltsp/amd64/etc/X11/xorg.conf to point to the radeon driver, but that doesn't seem to work.
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17:43
<mnevans>
alkisg: I tried: ltsp-update-kernels, ltsp-update-image, reboot client: this sequence seems to have given me a segfault when I rebooted the client.
17:46
But then nbd-server restarted, and when I login (with SCREEN_07=shell) and then startx, I have what appears to be a failsafe xterm. I can pop up xclock but little else. And of course I am logged into the client rather than the server.
17:48
<alkisg>
startx there isn't LTSP, if you get X working then remove SCREEN_02=shell
17:52
<mnevans>
alkisg: thank you. When I do that, I am back to hanging at the "plymouthd ... assertion failed..." line.
17:53
<alkisg>
It sounds like bad lts.conf settings (wrong xorg.conf), pointing to bad driver etc
17:53
<mnevans>
alkisg: a real basic question. When I do ltsp-update-kernels and then ltsp-update-image, I should be updating the chroot to the latest kernel on the server. Correct?
17:53
<alkisg>
When you run starts, the xorg.conf generated by ltsp isn't used
17:53
No
17:53
You need to chroot + update inside the chroot
17:54
(08:53:38 μμ) alkisg: When you run starts, ==> startx
17:55
<mnevans>
Well, maybe this is the problem. In lts. conf I point to XSERVER=fglrx. I;'ll try changing that to radeon and see what happens.
17:56
<alkisg>
Just omit it completely
17:56
<gvy>
mnevans, these two require very different kernel modules (and might require different initrd images if the modules get there)
17:56
<mnevans>
But I am confused then. Because once I do ltsp-choot there is no ltsp-update-image or ltsp-update-kernels.
17:57
alkisg: omit what completely?
17:57
<||cw>
mnevans: you have to exit the choot once you are done modding it
17:57
<alkisg>
XSERVER
17:57
sudo chroot /opt/ltsp/amd
17:57
apt-get update
17:57
apt-get dist-upgrade
17:57
exit
17:57
ltsp-update-kernels, image etc
17:57
I.e. you need to run apt-get update inside the chroot, to get the newer kernels etc
17:58* alkisg switches away from irc to get a bit of work done... :)
17:58
<mnevans>
alkisg, ||cw, gvy: thank you. First I am going to comment out the XSERVER=radeon line and reboot the client.
17:58
alkisg: thank you, I hope to also do so... :) Thanks for your help.
17:59
<alkisg>
yw
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18:09
<mnevans>
alkisg: your timing is good. Commenting out the XSERVER= line in lts.conf solved the problem. So I think I can stop using fglrx and stick with radeon.
18:11
p.s. I never knew that to update the chroot I had to do apt-get update, upgrade within the chroot, then exit and run ltsp-update-kernels, image, etc.
18:17
So it is still running a version of the system from the original 12.04 fresh install last april, not with any updates from now til then.
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18:29
<ltspuser_36>
Hi, could anyone tell me if I can install ltsp on my home and use an external (free) linux server?
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