IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 18 September 2009   (all times are UTC)

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00:07
<IBC_jkenney>
fixed
00:07
added a source package did a update
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05:01
<garymc>
Yo!
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05:09
<hipy>
]
05:09
=]
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05:37
<shamael>
i have a question for stgraber: i need to create a openvz ltsp server, so i will be trying out your howto for ltsp-cluster. However, i am using proxmox as a host, so i already have the ubuntu templates ready: is the python script "vz-template-creator.py" going to do some peculiar customization or is its output a regular ubuntu template?
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<ltsppbot>
"adsad" pasted "zxzx" (1 line) at http://pastebot.ltsp.org/510
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<ltsppbot>
"asdasdsa" pasted "asdasdsa" (1 line) at http://pastebot.ltsp.org/512
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08:25
<stgraber>
shamael: our template is quite different from the regular ubuntu one, main difference is that it contains ubuntu-minimal and so is a lot closer to a real installation of Ubuntu.
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09:32
<yoshi__>
little question i installed firefox as local app with flash plugin did the NAT trick and changed my lts.conf everything works, perfectly after that is installed the ubunty-restricted stuff and java in the chroot. But now when i run firefox as local app is see the plugins installed in firefox but firefox won't pick it up and use them, if i go to a java site it complains it has a missing plugin if i want to see a movie embedded it complains again ... any idea
09:32
however works when using firefox in non local apps mode.
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09:58
<nainaide>
Can I boot from a usb pen to realize wireless ltsp?
10:01
<sbalneav>
nainaide: You could. You'll have to roll it yourself. No one's done any work on this in LTSP.
10:02
Wireless isn't really a good medium for LTSP, as the latency tends to be too high.
10:03
<nainaide>
sbalneav, someone said only 802.11n afford it , doesn't it?
10:03
<sbalneav>
I have no idea. As I said, no-one's done any work on wireless in LTSP-land.
10:04
You'd have to play with it yourself.
10:04
<nainaide>
sbalneav, thanks. I will try when avaliable.
10:04
<sbalneav>
A simple test would be to simply try running some remote apps (firefox, Openoffice, etc) over ssh -X into a remote box over wireless.
10:05
nainaide: You might be waiting a while. I don't think it's on anyone's todo list.
10:05
<nainaide>
sbalneav, got it.
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10:26
<vagrantc>
otavio: looks like holger beat you to the ltsp-docs upload :)
10:27
<ogra>
is there a race ?
10:27
what can you win ?
10:27
<vagrantc>
ogra: there was a race that otavio didn't know about :)
10:27
<ogra>
hehe
10:28
<vagrantc>
seems like NEW processing for debian has been moving a lot faster ... let's see how it goes.
10:38
<panthera>
it depends on who's uploading; everyone but me gets fast NEW processing.
10:38
<johnny>
:(
10:38
ogra, i'm going to pm you
10:39
but for no good reason.. just to test my irc client (transport)
10:40
<shamael>
hi I'm going through the ltsp-cluster howto, but I'm stuck at nbd image creation
10:40
there seems to be small bug in a folder path
10:41
I get "umount: /opt/ltsp/i386//proc: not mounted"
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10:43
<sbalneav>
vagrantc: Oooh, you got it packaged?
10:43
How?
10:44
<ogra>
tape, lots of tape
10:44
<sbalneav>
Is it not in a good format for packaging?
10:45* ogra was just joking ... :)
10:46
<vagrantc>
sbalneav: it's not in the official archive yet, but you can download it from the skolelinux repository: http://ftp.skolelinux.org/skolelinux/pool/local/l/ltsp-docs/
10:46
sbalneav: or: dget http://ftp.skolelinux.org/skolelinux/pool/local/l/ltsp-docs/ltsp-docs_0.99+bzr91-1.dsc
10:48
sbalneav: all it does is install the generated pdf and html build, the manpage, and all those files that we don't know how to register with yelp
10:49
sbalneav: crazy simple packaging for his one. good job on your Makefile.
10:51
<ltsppbot>
"vagrantc" pasted "ltsp-docs debian packaging" (82 lines) at http://pastebot.ltsp.org/552
10:52
<ogra>
yay, dh7 :)
10:52
<vagrantc>
it really makes the world a better place.
10:52
<ogra>
yep
10:52
packaging boiled down to a two liner :)
10:53
<vagrantc>
there is this clause in the licensing: If you modify the software in any way, identify your software as
10:53
a variant of LTSP.
10:53
<ogra>
fine for ubuntu :P
10:54
bad for debian i guess
10:54
<vagrantc>
not sure.
10:54
we'll find out, because i didn't do anything special.
10:55
i mean, right now, i don't make any modifications ... but when freeze comes, may need to make patches to get it consistant with the version to be included in the stable release.
10:56
<ogra>
well, i think that sentence can be very widely interpreted
10:56
given that your packages are all called ltsp-something ... i would say thats fulfilled to 100%
10:57
<vagrantc>
with that interpretation, we may as well remove that clause from the licensing entirely.
10:57
<sbalneav>
vagrantc: Awesome
10:57* sbalneav hugs vagrantc
10:57
<vagrantc>
sbalneav: it was really the easiest packaging i've ever done :)
10:58
<sbalneav>
I should look at something like gnome-terminal's packaging, I know it's docs are xml, it does some scrollkeeper magic.
10:58* vagrantc hopes the debian/copyright is sufficient
10:58
<vagrantc>
scrollkeeper, eh?
10:58
<johnny>
rarian now..
10:58
<ogra>
scrollkeeper is dead since ages
10:59
<sbalneav>
Then how come every time I have gnome updates, there's always the long pauses for "updating scrollkeper"
11:00
<ogra>
ancient release ?
11:00* vagrantc ponders the meaning of ancient
11:00
<ogra>
hardy :)
11:01
<sbalneav>
I always love ogra's pronouncements of doom. "<x> is dead since ages". He's like #ltsp's personal Mandos!
11:01
<ogra>
heh
11:01
<sbalneav>
Oh, yeah, that "Long Term Support" release us businesses are supposed to use :)
11:01
http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Mandos
11:01
<ogra>
i think the dpkg hook never changed its text
11:02
scrollkeeper was actually put to dead in/pre hardy
11:02
<johnny>
yes.. i remember when rarian came.. there was a package scrollkeeper-compat for awhile on gentoo
11:02* sbalneav awaits ogra's rendition of "The Doom of the Noldor"
11:02
<johnny>
while everything updated
11:04
<sbalneav>
"Patches unnumbered ye shall shed, and jammcq shall fence #ltsp against you, and shut you out..."
11:04
Is my nerd showing?
11:05
<johnny>
one of the most famous ruby community members recently quit, his twitter message was something like .. why bother, it all becomes obsolete quickly anyways
11:05
<ogra>
*grin*
11:05
<johnny>
he wrote "why's poignant guide to ruby"
11:05
filled with cartoon foxes
11:06
hmm.. i'm getting 1.2 mb/s on my wireless outside.. that's not too bad...
11:09
<hipy>
Wow! I just installed ubuntu 9.04 with ltsp ( altnerate cd
11:09
that login screen is nice!
11:09
btw in the bottom i now see ltsp20 ( ip is 0.20 )
11:09
is that connected with eachother?
11:10
<vagrantc>
yes, based on ip address
11:10
<hipy>
ok
11:10
then this is a new version of ltsp:D
11:10
<vagrantc>
well, ancient by now.
11:10
<ajohnson>
I'm wondering if it's possible to put a complete OS install in /opt/ltsp and then use the PXE image that loads on boot to mount the complete OS.
11:11
No remote execution, just use the framework to PXE boot an entire OS with NBS filesystem
11:11
<hipy>
Well, i dont know a lot about pxe what i do know is that you can install from a thinclient the os
11:11
:p
11:11
<ogra>
ajohnson, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LiveCDNetboot
11:12
<ajohnson>
ogra: Looking, thanks for the link
11:13
I would want to make sure /home was mounted as an NFS share for config file persistance, but other than that, this type of thing is pretty close to what I'm looking for
11:13
user preferences, etc
11:14
<ogra>
newer releases of the livecd have a persistence flag ... not sure that works over the net though
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11:14
<ogra>
its more for USB keys running a live system and having a spare partition
11:14
<ajohnson>
right
11:14
<ogra>
you could use it and hand out every user a usb key ;)
11:15
<ajohnson>
XMB for live system, YMB for persistance
11:15
<ogra>
they would keep the persistent data on it
11:15
<ajohnson>
hehehe
11:15
Our system operates in a prison, so I can't do that, unfortunately
11:15
I would have to superglue them in to the USB slot :)
11:16
<yoshi__>
hi everyone installation ltsp5 ubuntu jaunty everything works and when we put on the terminal it boots quickly until the login screen, then when we login with a username and pass the desktop loads verry slowly first we see the wallpaper, then an empty pannel, wait 40 seconds then the application shortcuts and at last the desktop icons after 1 minute.
11:16
our network is gigabit
11:16
any idea's
11:17
<alkisg>
yoshi__: after that, does it run fast?
11:17
<yoshi__>
yes
11:17
then it runs normal except if iam into firefox and click the right mouse button
11:17
but i read there is a patch for that
11:17
<alkisg>
Yeah...
11:18
And is that an ltsp problem? I.e. if you sit on the server, it opens faster?
11:18
<yoshi__>
i installed an ltsp before with 8.10 and there everything was fast after the login
11:18
yes on the server its instantly its a dual quad core with 32 gig of ram
11:18
a dell T605
11:19
<alkisg>
Try with the patch first, maybe it'll also solve this and you won't have to debug it...
11:19
<yoshi__>
ok tx but i see the patch here how ot i deploy the patch i never did that
11:20
<alkisg>
It's there: https://launchpad.net/~stgraber/+archive/ppa
11:20
<yoshi__>
ok tx ill try that
11:20
<alkisg>
...you can put this ppa in your sources, both in the server and the chroot, and dist-upgrade both of them
11:21
<yoshi__>
alkisg i got another question a ask many times but nobody seems to know it or is able to answer
11:21
tx alkisg :)
11:21
i installed firefox as local app with flash plugin did the NAT trick and changed my lts.conf everything works, perfectly after that is installed the ubunty-restricted stuff and java in the chroot. But now when i run firefox as local app is see the plugins installed in firefox but firefox won't pick it up and use them, if i go to a java site it complains it has a missing plugin if i want to see a movie embedded it complains again ... any idea ? It however wor
11:21
using firefox in non local apps mode.
11:21
i am trying to figure this out now for almost 2 weeks
11:22
now the kids are working on the server and not as local app firefox
11:22
it works but i would rather use the power of our clients
11:22
for firefox
11:23
could you have any idea or where to look
11:23
or do i have to reboot the server
11:23
that is what i thinking now
11:23
mmm
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11:24
<alkisg>
No, you shouldn't have to reboot the server
11:24
But I see that ubuntu-restricted-extras depend on gconf, and gconf doesn't work as a localapp. Maybe that has something to do with it.
11:25
I haven't tried it, though, except only for the flash player which worked.
11:25
<yoshi__>
ahaa an answer
11:25
flash works great
11:25
the rest java and so on don't
11:25
and the school uses java en quicktime movies and so on
11:25
<alkisg>
Java isn't in the ubuntu-restricted-extras package, though
11:26
<yoshi__>
no thats right, but it doesnt work either
11:26
while i see the plugins installed
11:26* alkisg doesn't have a clue about this. :)
11:27
<Lns>
yoshi__, java browser plugin isn't working for you?
11:28
<yoshi__>
Lns not if firefox is installed as local app
11:28
<Lns>
yoshi__, did you install sun-java6-plugin in the chroot?
11:28
<yoshi__>
Lns yes
11:28
everything
11:28
<Lns>
it's listed in about:plugins?
11:28
<yoshi__>
i used the restriced and installed this together with java
11:28
Lns yes
11:29
alkisg tx for all the help and advice
11:29
<alkisg>
yw :)
11:29
<Lns>
hrm
11:29
have you tried creating a new test user and trying localapp firefox with that?
11:30
maybe something in your .mozilla is preventing from seeing the globally installed plugin?
11:30* Lns doesn't have much exp. w/localapps yet so bear with him
11:33
<yoshi__>
Lns i will try that
11:33
great suggestion
11:34
i will keep you guys posted :)
11:34
<Lns>
ok
11:34
<yoshi__>
who is actually in charge of ltsp ?
11:34
is there a developers group we can write to ?
11:34
how many people are working on it ?
11:34
<sbalneav>
You're on it right now.
11:34
Gadi, vagrantc, warren, ogra, stgraber, myself, etc.
11:35
<yoshi__>
aha
11:35
<ogra>
dont forget johnny
11:35
<yoshi__>
:)
11:35
<sbalneav>
Ah, yes!
11:35
<yoshi__>
you guys schould get paid !! your doing a great job :)
11:35
i had milions for sure i would sponser this :)
11:35
<sbalneav>
We do get paid: by our respective jobs. This we do for fun.
11:36
Well, speaking for myself, anyway.
11:36
<yoshi__>
you schould have this as job :)
11:36
<Lns>
yoshi__, money just gets in the way of creative development ;)
11:36
<yoshi__>
ltsp could be a great open source alternative for citrix and ms ts
11:36
<Lns>
it is. ;)
11:37
<sbalneav>
It is already :)
11:37
<yoshi__>
Lns: yes thats true but people also have more time to work on it, now they have to work 8 ours a day and in the after ours the dev
11:37
<johnny>
yoshi__, well.. some of the use cases it's not good at. like over the internet
11:37
which citrix stuff is good for.
11:37
but there are other free solutions
11:37
<yoshi__>
sbalneav: yes it is but still there are some futures that are missing that we can use
11:37
<Lns>
of course there's freenx too ;)
11:37
<johnny>
perhaps google's nx server will help..
11:37
i wonder if they are working on it still
11:37
<yoshi__>
yes neatnx
11:37
<Lns>
neatx *
11:38
<sbalneav>
yoshi__: So, send us patches.
11:38* Lns thinks sbalneav has "So, send us patches" on a hotkey ;)
11:38
<yoshi__>
sbalneav: if i could code immediatly but i dont't know how to even start
11:38
<sbalneav>
I've said it a million times
11:39
Free software isn't about US solving YOUR problems. It's about helping YOU to solve YOUR problems. :)
11:39
<Lns>
+1
11:39
<yoshi__>
for example sabayon its a tool that we miss :)
11:39
<johnny>
consumers becoming producers..
11:39
that's what this whole internet social networking thingamabob is about to me..
11:39
<sbalneav>
yoshi__: You know, of course, I've been fixing it, yes?
11:39
<Lns>
case in point: I found a cool firefox config editor switch that helped my schools out (disable password manager). I simply put it on the ubuntu wiki so i could reference it. And for everyone else, too. =)
11:40
<yoshi__>
yes if you can code you can change something but when i look at ltsp i don't know where to start
11:40
<sbalneav>
It's working now in Karmic, and I have PPA packages for Jaunty
11:40
<alkisg>
Lns, link?
11:40
<yoshi__>
sblaneav no ? i didn't know that does it work again under jaunty
11:40
ooo
11:40
<Lns>
alkisg, the ubuntu ltsp wiki under 'optimizing firefox'
11:40
<sbalneav>
Check my ppa
11:40
<johnny>
yoshi__, there's also documentation, art, translation,
11:40
there are plenty of non code ways to contribute
11:40
<sbalneav>
http://launchpad.net/~sbalneav
11:40
<Lns>
yeah..i'm not a coder by far
11:40
<sbalneav>
ok, off for lunch
11:41
<yoshi__>
johnny im busy writing an installation tutorial how we did in our school
11:41
its not much but maybe i can help others
11:41
<johnny>
try not to duplicate what already exists
11:41
did you read !docs
11:42
err
11:42
!docs
11:42
<ltspbot>
johnny: "docs" is For the most current documentation, see http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/LtspDocumentationUpstream
11:42
<johnny>
who's bot? i like the syntax of this other bot we use in some xmpp rooms
11:42
where you could say
11:42
<Lns>
yoshi__, sound like that would fit well on the SuccessStories part of the ltsp.org wiki
11:42
<johnny>
did you read [xep 182]
11:42
and it would print the link
11:42
<alkisg>
Lns: nice, thanks! Except for "// Disable offline/disk caching of web pages" which I think should be enabled unless one has squid installed.
11:42
<yoshi__>
Lns well i was thinking of putting it there
11:42
<Lns>
yoshi__, you should
11:42
<yoshi__>
i thinks i woulde be the first belgian school
11:43
6 schools to be exactly
11:43
:)
11:43
<Lns>
alkisg, well it's kind of redundant when you have many hundreds of users caching the same webpages ;)
11:43
<yoshi__>
2000 students
11:43
<Lns>
nice!
11:43
<otavio>
vagrantc: sorry :( I'm short in time lately
11:43
<Lns>
that's a pretty hefty install =)
11:43
<yoshi__>
we just integrated google apps for education
11:43
<Lns>
write about how that went too.
11:43
<alkisg>
Lns: no, because they are cached in different dirs and if you don't cache them they'll just be downloaded again and again
11:43
<Lns>
i'm sure lots could benefit from your experience
11:43
myself included
11:44
<yoshi__>
Lns yes and the 6 locations are app 20 km from eachoter
11:44
<johnny>
uggh.. more software needs to stop slacking off and go xdg
11:44
<Lns>
alkisg, ? caching is per-user isn't it? in ~/.mozilla
11:44
<johnny>
Lns, it would make software like sabayon much easier to take care of ..
11:44
<yoshi__>
now they are paying microsoft a lot of licenses
11:44
thats why i was looking for sabayon :)
11:44
<alkisg>
Lns: yes, so why would you disable that cache? :-/
11:45
<Lns>
alkisg, think of the server hdd space, disk writes when many are using firefox, etc
11:45
that's a lot of stuff going on for just cache that is probably used elsewhere, like you said, a central proxy
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11:45
<Lns>
i'm not saying you HAVE to enable it, either.. ;)
11:45
just put it down as a useful option
11:45
<yoshi__>
Lns google apps for education i great really
11:46
<alkisg>
Lns: I agree that using squid is a better solution, but turning off cache and re-downloading everything again and again from the internet is a bad idea if one doesn't have squid...
11:46
<Lns>
alkisg, agreed...
11:46
<alkisg>
Lns: in any case, thanks, the other ones were really helpful :)
11:46
<yoshi__>
its not diffucult to maintain and easy to setup, the only thing that can be confusion it to many options for users
11:46
<Lns>
alkisg, ;)
11:46
yoshi__, does google apps have a presentation/slideshow app?
11:47* Lns is scared for when teachers start using OOo impress and run into the pixmap bug again :(
11:47
<yoshi__>
Lns yes
11:47
<johnny>
i wonder what it will take to fix that thing Lns
11:47
that is certainly far above my pay grade
11:47
<Lns>
johnny, i have no clue..people keep saying they're going to look at it and then they don't
11:48
<johnny>
maybe you should put up a bounty for it..
11:48
and post it to slashdot :)
11:48
<Lns>
heh
11:48* Lns loves inurl:domain.tld for google
11:49
<Lns>
https://bugs.launchpad.net/openoffice/+bug/315300
11:49
<johnny>
i wonder how much all this new work in cleaning up X will help Lns
11:49
<Lns>
everyone should comment on that as well as the upstream =)
11:49
johnny, ?
11:49
<johnny>
kms, gallium 3d, etc
11:49
<Lns>
johnny, ?? url?
11:49
<yoshi__>
well it was very intressting talking to you all :) tx for all the help i will surely come back an contribute as soon as we got something finnisched, next week our main server is going life for 130 kids approx for the first school :)
11:49
<johnny>
huh?
11:50
Lns, aren't you familiar with kms?
11:50
<Lns>
yoshi__, nice. definitely come back and chat
11:50
nope
11:50
lemme google
11:50
<johnny>
seriously?
11:50
<ogra>
kernel mode switching
11:50
<johnny>
drivers are moving to the kernel..
11:50
kernel mode setting ogra
11:50
<ogra>
wont gain you speed on X though
11:50
yeah, that :)
11:50
<Lns>
ooooh that's right
11:50
<johnny>
no.. i didn't say it would.. i'm talking about maintability
11:51
<Lns>
so no .5sec delay when switching TTYs?
11:51
<johnny>
and being able to have people figure out where problems are easily
11:51
or easier.. rather
11:51
maintainability*
11:51
<Lns>
oh
11:51
<johnny>
Lns, more work happens in the kernel, less in X
11:51
as the process has been going
11:52
as have been going with hal and udev
11:52
and how most people don't need xorg.conf
11:52
etc
11:52
<Lns>
s/switching/setting/ ?
11:52
<johnny>
yes
11:52
<Lns>
http://www.workswithu.com/2009/07/15/ubuntu-910-preview-kernel-mode-setting/
11:52
<johnny>
Lns, it's better in fedora
11:52
since ubuntu is going a different route for splash
11:52
than fedora
11:53
fedora uses kms for the splash and switching to x (via plymouth)
11:53
ubuntu is going to focus on getting to X quicker in karmic +1
11:53
<Lns>
that's pretty cool.
11:55
<johnny>
Lns, you should probably read 2 sites more frequently
11:55
<Lns>
I remember a DOS attack a long time ago by rapidly hitting CTL+ALT+Fn that would lock the video in linux...
11:55
<johnny>
phoronix, and lwn archives
11:56
<Lns>
johnny, i'll check em out, thx
11:56
<johnny>
phoronix is kinda a gamersite or linux "power user" site..
11:56
which means they talk about benchmarks and new video stuff in linux alot
11:56
along with hardware reviews and whatnot
11:56
<Lns>
cool
11:57
<johnny>
lwn is more for developers, but i still think you would appreciate it
11:57
lwn is a pay site.. the first week the archive is closed
11:57
then it is open when the next one comes out
11:57
it is worth paying for
11:57
but you should browse it often even if you can't afford to pay yet
11:57
ask dberkholz about it
11:57
he pays for it :)
11:57
if you want a testimonial
11:59
<Lns>
hehe.. ok
11:59
<johnny>
it is the most concise way to keep up with big security issues, new features, distro releases, etc
12:00
if there is one site you'd want to go to keep track of what is happening in the development community.. that would probably be it
12:00
<Lns>
i've been on lwn a few times before...very good site
12:01
<johnny>
as soon as i can afford it.. i'm going to pay
12:01
that and phoronix..
12:01
phoronix is probably cheaper
12:01
$10 for 3 months
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13:16
<nivelpp>
hi , i have one quation abou bootin thin clients , i want to boot thin clients behind nat
13:16
my configuration dhcpd on the nat:
13:16
subnet 172.16.20.0 netmask 255.255.255.0 {
13:16
range 172.16.20.10 172.16.20.100;
13:16
option domain-name-servers xx.32.yy.5;
13:16
13:16
option routers 172.16.20.1;
13:16
next-server xx.32.yy.30;
13:16
option root-path "/opt/ltsp/i386";
13:16
if substring( option vendor-class-identifier, 0, 9 ) = "PXEClient" {
13:16
filename "/ltsp/i386/pxelinux.0";
13:16
} else {
13:16
filename "/ltsp/i386/nbi.img";
13:16
}
13:16
}
13:16
13:16
but tftp does not search image on the correct server
13:16
i thing he search it on the nat
13:17
xx.32.yy.30 is public ip , and there is correstly configured ltsp
13:18
can you help me ? thanks
13:23
<hipy>
Darn
13:23
Those graphic designers at ltsp did a nice job on login screen on ubunt 9.04
13:23
:)
13:25
<alkisg>
nivelpp: if you sit on a pc in the "local" network, install a tftp client, and try to get e.g. the kernel from the remote tftp server, does that work?
13:25johnny has left #ltsp
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13:27
<nivelpp>
alkisg: i am going to try this
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13:40
<nivelpp>
alkisg: no it is not working , it says unknown host ...
13:40
<alkisg>
nivelpp: unknown host? aren't you trying with the ip?
13:40
<nivelpp>
yes i am
13:41
i have installed tftp from ubuntu 9.10
13:41
<alkisg>
nivelpp: does tftp work over nat? I don't know...
13:41
<nivelpp>
alkisg: is there possible solution ?
13:42
<alkisg>
nivelpp: well, one way is to install a tftp server locally, and copy the remote server's dir there
13:44
<nivelpp>
alkisg: dir tree, this means that i have to install tftp server on nat , and copy /var/lib/tftpboot and /opt/ltsp ?
13:44
<alkisg>
The downside is that every time you update the chroot's kernels, you'll need to copy them to the local tftp server also
13:44
nivelpp: only the /var/lib/tftpboot dir
13:45
nivelpp: but let me say again that *I don't know* if tftp works over nat. If it does, then you don't need to do the copying...
13:47
<nivelpp>
alkisg: i have found this http://www.tftp-server.com/tftp_server_faq.html , your answer is correct
13:49
<alkisg>
nivelpp: ok. So just install a local tftp server, it shouldn't be hard...
13:50
nivelpp: also, if you're going to have many such nat subnets, take a look at this: http://resin.csoft.net/cgi-bin/man.cgi?section=8&topic=tftp-proxy
13:50
I didn't read it, but if it is indeed a proxy tftp server, then you don't have to copy/update the tftpboot dir
13:51
nivelpp: lastly, I think gpxe can be used to boot over http instead of over tftp
13:52
<nivelpp>
alkisg: yes ok , i will install tftpd and copy /vat/lib/tftpboot , is there some specific configuration and what files i need to copy every image update ?
13:54
<alkisg>
Copy ==> the whole /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386 dir, configuration ==> you need to tell the clients where the ltsp server is
13:54
One way to do that is by appending nbdroot=<ip>:/path to pxelinux.cfg/default
13:56
<Lns>
Who's using Jaunty LTSP?
13:56* alkisg raises hand
13:57
<nivelpp>
alkisg: thanks
13:57
<Lns>
alkisg, can you give me a very brief line as to its stability overall? I'm considering upgrading one of my school servers from Hardy because of the need for localapps.
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13:58
<alkisg>
Lns, imho, quite stable, except for some intel-based cards
13:59
<Lns>
Hmm.
13:59
<alkisg>
Lns, of course updating from stgraber's ppa is needed; but maybe you don't want to keep it to your sources after the update :-/
14:00
<Lns>
alkisg, what does stgraber's ppa do for ltsp in jaunty?
14:01
<alkisg>
Lns, fixes the xlib bug, fixes the ldm hanging at logout bug...
14:01
<Lns>
xlib = the slow java thing?
14:01
<alkisg>
Yes, and the right firefox click
14:01
<Lns>
ah
14:01
see i don't get the right-click firefox bug in hardy
14:02
<alkisg>
Well, with the updates you won't get it in jaunty either
14:02
<Lns>
anyway...i'm considering the upgrade because i'm getting many complaints of slow firefox and lockups in our java-based typing tutor
14:02
and other misc. sites
14:02
we're gonna have to upgrade the ram in our clients though, too, they only have 128mb
14:02
<alkisg>
Lns, go for it
14:02
Lns, you don
14:02
don't need to update it unless you need localapps
14:03
I have clients with 64 / 128 ram, they work find
14:03
fine
14:03
<Lns>
well i'm assuming we'll need localapps for firefox/openoffice at least
14:03
maybe i can build a jaunty vm and simply switch back and forth to test...
14:04
<alkisg>
Lns, you could tar the server's / partition to another partition, do an upgrade, and if it doesn't go well, just use the hardy partition...
14:04* alkisg always has 2 partitions with the os in them
14:06
<Lns>
true true
14:06
hmmmmmm
14:08
<alkisg>
Lns, how much ram do you suppose you'll put to your clients?
14:08
<Lns>
alkisg, I'm not sure what the limit is on them, i'm guessing probably 512
14:09
<alkisg>
Yeah you'd be seeing great improvements in speed with localapps and 512Mb...
14:09
<Lns>
it's going to be a tough sell though, they were expecting everything to 'just work' the way it is
14:09
the CPUs are Via 1GHz though, which i'm kind of wondering about...
14:12
<alkisg>
This year I'm on a school with brand new core 2 duo PCs, with 2 Gb RAM etc... I want to try a non-LTSP setup for once, and see how that goes with administration...
14:13
<Lns>
alkisg, how do you plan on centralizing administration?
14:15
<alkisg>
I'm not sure, but I'm going to invest some months on learning about this. LDAP vs NIS vs insecure nfs-exported /etc/passwd, NFS vs AFS vs local /home dirs, cloning partitions, developing scripts for tasks...
14:15
If anyone has any proposals/pointers, I'm all ears :)
14:18
<Lns>
i'd say ldap would really be the way to push
14:19
ah, nm, the clients we have are Via 800MHz...jeez i dunno if that would even handle localapp firefox..
14:19* Lns sighs
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14:21
<nivelpp>
alkisg: i was able to boot pxelinux but system faild to start , can you explain what you min in this line ? (20:54:30) alkisg: One way to do that is by appending nbdroot=<ip>:/path to pxelinux.cfg/default
14:21
i have only add lts.conf , with SERVER=ip
14:21
<alkisg>
nivelpp: did it hang in busybox?
14:23
<nivelpp>
alkisg: yes , exactly
14:23
<alkisg>
nivelpp: in the *local* tftp server, do: sudo gedit /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/pxelinux.cfg/default
14:23
and append nbdroot=<ltsp-server-ip>,2000 after the "quiet splash"
14:24
(in the same line, not in a new one)
14:26
<Lns>
alkisg, you running 64-bit jaunty?
14:26
<alkisg>
Nope, i386
14:27
<Lns>
hmm
14:27
do you know of any lagging issues w/amd64 in jaunty for ltsp?
14:27
lagging meaning unresolved..
14:27
<alkisg>
Sorry, no idea about amd64
14:28
<Lns>
k
14:30
<nivelpp>
alkisg: is this configuration correct ?
14:30
DEFAULT localboot
14:30
TIMEOUT 50
14:30
PROMPT 1
14:30
DISPLAY display.msg
14:30
LABEL linux
14:30
KERNEL vmlinuz
14:30
APPEND ro initrd=initrd.img quiet splash nbdroot=xx.88.yy.30,2000
14:30
LABEL localboot
14:30
LOCALBOOT 0
14:40
<Lns>
Does anyone use Epiphany web browser w/ltsp ?
14:41nivelpp has left #ltsp
14:45
<Guest41664>
my users used it a couple releases ago when firefox was giving me constant "firefox is already running" errors
14:45
that was an annoying period
14:46
lemem change my nick :(
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14:51
<alkisg>
nivelpp: I think you need to use : instead of comma: nbdroot=xx.88.yy.30:2000
14:52
<nivelpp>
alkisg: ok , i wil try it
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15:30
<nivelpp>
alkisg: thanks , you are awesome , it works
15:30
:)
15:30
<alkisg>
Nice!!! :)
15:31
<nivelpp>
alkisg: but i have many other problems now :)
15:31
<alkisg>
Heh... :P like?
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15:33
<nivelpp>
alkisg: it is very slow (especially gnome menu) ... and when i try to set LDM_DIRECTX=True , i can not log in ( when i type pass and press enter , screen goes blank with mouse bussy cursor )
15:33
<alkisg>
nivelpp: how fast is your network link?
15:33
<nivelpp>
it is not limited with hardware ... server is six core intel , and nat is dual coore amd
15:34
connection between nat and server is 100Mbit
15:34
<vagrantc>
NAT ?
15:34
LDM_DIRECTX won't work over NAT
15:34
<nivelpp>
vagrantc: yes nat
15:34
vagrantc: oh, that is bad
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15:35
<vagrantc>
there's NAT between the server you're logging into and your thin clients?
15:35
<nivelpp>
vagrantc: yes
15:35
<vagrantc>
no LDM_DIRECTX for you.
15:36
<nivelpp>
i dont understand why it is so slow with ssh compression and encryption
15:36
<alkisg>
vagrantc: just wondering, why?
15:37
<nivelpp>
alkisg: do you thing that it is possible ?
15:37
<alkisg>
Nope, I believe vagrantc, I'm just wondering
15:37
<nivelpp>
alkisg: ok
15:38
is there any way to speed up ssh encrypted connection ?
15:38
<alkisg>
nivelpp: how fast are your clients?
15:38
<johnny>
patch in the null cypher
15:38
and use that
15:38
of course it won't really be encrypted
15:38
but it will work through the nat
15:39
<nivelpp>
alkisg: i am testing it on dual core amd laptop 2,2ghz ... and 4 gb ram
15:40
<alkisg>
I see... is there much latency between the client and the server?
15:40
<nivelpp>
johnny: can you explain this more detailed ?
15:40
<vagrantc>
alkisg: LDM_DIRECTX works by setting the DISPLAY variable to the ip address of the thin-client. with NAT in the way, there's no route back to the thin-client.
15:40
<alkisg>
vagrantc: thanks :)
15:41
<nivelpp>
alkisg: <1ms
15:41
<vagrantc>
you could set ip routing, but at that point, there's not really any point to the NAT
15:41* alkisg wonders why is this slow, then....
15:41
<vagrantc>
so switch from NAT to a regular routed network.
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15:45
<nivelpp>
vagrantc: i must say it to head admin of the network , but he is not intrested in ltsp ...
15:45
but i will try
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15:50
<johnny>
nicros, not really.. i've never done it before
15:51
err
15:51
nivelpp, not really
15:51
i just heard somebody mention it
15:51
i don't think ssh ships with it by default
15:51
but it would solve that nat problem
15:52
<alkisg>
More info for the none cipher in ubuntu: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/openssh/+bug/54180
15:52
<johnny>
i think it would basically turn ssh into telnet :)
15:53
<nivelpp>
johnny: it sound good :)
15:53
<vagrantc>
a much more capable telnet
15:53
<alkisg>
I really wish they had it there, I hate to install rsync on my wife's laptop just to transfer a DVD... :-/
15:54
<johnny>
perhaps would be good for you to setup your own ppa with it then alkisg
15:55
<alkisg>
johnny: I also hate the overhead of having to check, reapply and possibly modify the patch in every ssh version :(
15:55
<johnny>
well.. if the patches use a sane naming scheme
15:55
then that woudn't be a problem now would it..
15:55
<sbalneav>
Why use the "None" cipher as opposed to using LDM_DIRECTX?
15:56
<johnny>
sbalneav, to get around a nat
15:57
<sbalneav>
Ah, so nothing to do with LTSP then.
15:57
<johnny>
huh?
15:57
yes.. it does..
15:57
<alkisg>
johnny: the patch is 50kb... I don't think it's trivial :-/
15:57
<johnny>
it's just ssh around
15:57
err it's just a way to pass through a natted network to get to ltsp app server sbalneav
15:57
<sbalneav>
Why would you have a NAT in-between the servers and the thin clients?
15:57
<johnny>
alkisg, but you could script it
15:58
sbalneav, that's just the way it is :)
15:58
<sbalneav>
Then why not simply set up an OpenVPN connection, then?
15:59
Anywho, the "None" cipher isn't included in openssh anymore anyway, and I doubt you'll get any distro accepting a patch to put it back in.
16:04
<nivelpp>
sbalneav: tahnks :)
16:04shawnp0wers has quit IRC
16:07
<nivelpp>
has opensshserver some speeder encryption methods ? (except none :) )
16:07
<johnny>
there wasa recommendation at the top of the bug post
16:08
<sbalneav>
blowfish is the "cheapest" isnt it?
16:09
<alkisg>
arcfour256 108 MB/s blowfish-cbc 75.0 MB/s
16:09
<sbalneav>
There you got
16:09
go, sorry. Arcfour
16:09
<alkisg>
From https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/openssh/+bug/54180/comments/6
16:10
<sbalneav>
I already tried to get the none cipher back in. I was told "no way no how"
16:11
This was back in the days when the code was actually still IN ssh, it just was #ifdef'd or ./configure'd out.
16:12
Now that they've actually hacked the code out... For. Get. It.
16:13hipy has quit IRC
16:19
<nivelpp>
tanks booys , i am going sleep now :)
16:19nivelpp has left #ltsp
16:21* vagrantc figured out why the keyboard/mouse was broken in squeeze: dbus and hal init scripts weren't whitelisted.
16:21* vagrantc is getting weary of keeping track of these whitelists...
16:22
<vagrantc>
i should do some testing to see how evil it would be to ditch them entirely
16:22
<sbalneav>
Testing? For evil?
16:22
One never tests for evil...
16:23
One merely... embraces it.
16:23
if evil:
16:23
do_stuff ()
16:23
Okiedoke. Packin' up for the weekend.
16:23
I'm outta here.
16:24
Have fun, youse alls.
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16:31
<johnny>
vagrantc, focus on blacklists ? :)
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16:43
<johnny>
well at least hal is disappearing..
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16:47
<vagrantc_>
johnny: well, in the spirit of ltsp5, i'd like not to special-case ltsp. whitelisting or blacklisting certain init scripts makes ltsp a special environment, rather than just a particular install of distro FOO
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16:48
<vagrantc_>
it made a big speed difference early on, but it doesn't seem to be as much the case anymore.
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21:01
<jammcq>
hello all
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