IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 30 May 2011   (all times are UTC)

00:20
<Hyperbyte>
Morning! :)
00:47
<alkisg>
Goood morning :)
00:54
<dubkat>
ssh for secure authentication - you just asked about non-encrypted
00:54
i'm confused or you're just not being clear
00:54
anyway, bed &
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01:14
<Hyperbyte>
dubkat, authentication encryption != session encryption
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02:02
<Hyperbyte>
Anyone here know how I can force a umask for all people who log in to Gnome?
02:03
I set it in /etc/profile, but apparently that does nothing to the Gnome session. I set it in a script that runs on Gnome startup, but I think that only affects the script and not the whole session
02:03
I think it can be done via ~/.gnomerc, but I would like to avoid user-specific configuration.
02:04
<alkisg>
Hyperbyte: ubuntu? read /etc/login.defs
02:05
# Therefore the use of pam_umask is recommended as the solution which
02:05
# catches all these cases on PAM-enabled systems.
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02:17
<Hyperbyte>
Hrm, I changed it to 002 in /etc/login.defs but it's still 0022 when I type 'umask' in a Gnome terminal
02:17
Or do I need to restart the server?
02:18
<alkisg>
Hyperbyte: don't change login.defs, READ it :)
02:18
I.e. use it as documentation, not as a configuration file
02:19
<Hyperbyte>
I did... but from what I can gather, it's a configuration file?
02:19
# /etc/login.defs - Configuration control definitions for the login package.
02:19
<alkisg>
It is a configuration file, and inside it they mention why you should NOT using for umask, and what to use instead
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02:21
<Hyperbyte>
Sorry, I don't see that in the file...
02:21
Let me go back a step.
02:21
<alkisg>
Hyperbyte: see what I pasted above:
02:21
02:21
02:21
Don't you have those in your login.defs?
02:21
<Hyperbyte>
I have a directory in /home/ with shared files. I want all files and directories created in there to be group-writable.
02:21
No, that's not in my login.defs
02:21
<alkisg>
There's a whole paragraph about the umask problem, and there's advice on where to set it
02:21
Hmmm let me boot a natty vm...
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02:22
<Hyperbyte>
Don't bother
02:22
http://secondary.recreatie-zorg.nl/jan/login.defs
02:22
:)
02:22
<alkisg>
Hmmm they deleted all the comments, let me paste you mine...
02:23
Search for umask: http://pastebin.com/dJ4uUzKG
02:23
There was a looooong talk about umask in bug reports etc, and that paragraph best summarized the situation
02:23
I don't know why they deleted it in natty, maybe something even newer came up?
02:25
<Hyperbyte>
So how do you use pam_umask? It's not a command, can't find any configuration pertaining to it, except /etc/login.defs
02:25
<alkisg>
man pam_umask
02:25
or http://manpages.ubuntu.com/pam_umask
02:27
<Hyperbyte>
Okay, so basically I add "session optional pam_umask.so umask=002" to /etc/pam.d/common-session, correct?
02:35
Success!
02:36* Hyperbyte high fives alkisg
02:36* alkisg hasn't fiddled with umask for a long while... glad I was able to help :)
02:37
<Hyperbyte>
Strange that this can't be found so easily via Google... all I found was a whole bunch of Ubuntu forums threads talking about /etc/profile
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04:21
<andygraybeal>
morrrningn
04:22
<Hyperbyte>
Afternoon. :)
04:22
<andygraybeal>
hi Hyperbyte !!
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05:41
<fossala>
I have a 2x dualcore 2.2ghz (opteron) with 16gb ram. Would it be powerfull enough to power 4 thin clients?
05:41* alkisg is using core 2 duos with 3 Gb RAM to power school labs with 12 thin clients :)
05:41
<alkisg>
So yeah, more than powerful enough
05:42
<fossala>
What is the speed like?
05:42
<alkisg>
Gigabit network everywhere?
05:43
<fossala>
Yeah.
05:43
<alkisg>
So all will be fine except for 3d apps and for flash
05:44
Flash will kill the cpu (but ok for 4 clients) and doesn't use xv acceleration so it also kills all the network bandwidth, escpecially for fullscreen
05:44
<fossala>
alkisg: Thanks.
05:44
<alkisg>
You're welcome
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05:45
<fossala>
alkisg: I'm doing it on a budget. How powerfull will the thin clients need to be (Picked up the server for 30quid on ebay :D)
05:46
All that needs to run is web browser and editors. Occational gcc.
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05:47
<alkisg>
It depends on the expected use. A web browser can e.g. be "reading wikipedia" == minimum cpu/bandwidth, or "watching youtube" == maximum cpu/bandwidth
05:47
The recommented minimum is something with 256 ram, for thin client use only
05:48
While with 512 RAM and more, you can start using localapps (local firefox/flash => runs faster on some occations)
05:48
For only 4 clients you should be able to avoid localapps...
05:48
(the bare minimum is 64 ram, but that's asking for trouble :))
05:48
<fossala>
Its only for home use.
05:49
The ones I've looked into have 512mb/1gb ram.
05:50
<alkisg>
Should be fine then
05:50
<fossala>
Awesome. once again thanks for your help.
06:03
I have found a Wyse V90L for 30 quid + p&p. Is 10/100 network fast enough for the client?
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06:33
<alkisg>
The network is more important than cpu usually
06:33
Also if you have a mixed-mode network (half gigabit, half 100mbps) you need to watch out for the flow control problem: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/FlowControl
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06:36
<Gnoze5>
Yellow
06:36
<alkisg>
Green
06:36
<Gnoze5>
how are you ?
06:36
<alkisg>
And "pink" she put down the telephone (that's from a joke, isn't it?)
06:37
<Gnoze5>
yes it is lol
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06:47
<mgariepy>
good morning everyone
06:47
<Gnoze5>
good morrow mgariepy
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07:55
<antoiner>
Hi, I've tried LTSP with Edubuntu 11.04 without Unity. However my thin clients automaticaly run by default Unity. How can I change my server or client chroot in order to have the classic gnome (without effect) automaticaly by default on my thin clients ?
07:57
<mgariepy>
antoiner, in LDM, you can click on "preferences" then "session" and select "ubuntu-classic no effect"
07:58
<antoiner>
mgariepy: I want to avoid user interaction with that part ..... in fact if I can get totaly rid of Unity it's better.
07:58
mgariepy: I do not have any grief against Unity, it's just it does not still offer me what I need to.
08:00
<mgariepy>
i have a ldm package that fixes the LDM_SESSION related to https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/770323
08:00
antoiner, maybe this is what you need " https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/edubuntu-users/2011-April/006691.html
08:03
<antoiner>
mgariepy: I've tried the manual override in the mailling list : I've changed lts.conf, made the script and made it executable and ran my thin client and nothing ...... Is there something I'm missing ?
08:07
<mgariepy>
antoiner, try installing this package in your chroot and set the LDM_SESSION="gnome --session=2d-gnome" https://launchpad.net/~mgariepy/+archive/ppa/+files/ldm_2.2.2%7Ebzr1383-0ubuntu1%7Eppa1%7Ereally-2.2.1_i386.deb
08:07
this should work.
08:08
i also have a 64bit package if necessary in my ppa.
08:09
<antoiner>
thank you very much
08:09
<mgariepy>
you are welcome :)
08:10
<antoiner>
by the way, do you know a method that I can use to replace openssh to lsh ? Or at least where I can look for changing openssh/ltsp link ?
08:11
<mgariepy>
antoiner, no i use localapps to prevent saturated network problem and it's working great even with italc.
08:21
<antoiner>
;) I see you saw my e-mail ;)
08:24
mgariepy: What does your ltsp package in your ppa ? version upgrade ?
08:28
<mgariepy>
it's the latest code from the trunk
08:29
antoiner, i made it to fix https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/770323
08:37
<antoiner>
mgariepy: One last question ... is Italc of edubuntu 11.04 is broken ? I can't get ICA work .... :(
08:37
<mgariepy>
i haven't tried it with 11.04 yet.
08:38
<antoiner>
mgariepy: Thank you for your help ! Too bad for the lsh theme because the zlib/huffmann compression of openssh is quite weak and it's never bad, in a atom thin client, to try to lower network stress. I'll use
08:39
local applications
08:39
<alkisg_web>
antoiner: video compression would kill the server cpu just for a couple of clients
08:39
So it wouldn't be a good thing
08:41
<antoiner>
Video is not the only case where network is saturated ... it saturates in general when the whole screen change .....
08:44
<mgariepy>
video, screensaver (which i set as mandatory to black) and mostly games saturate the network, when an applications saturate too much the network it makes sense to run it locally.
08:50
<antoiner>
It makes sense but it's not always the best solution.
08:50
The economic model of a LTSP solution is to center everything to the server.
08:50
When using for instance CAD software or softwares like blender, you'll like to build a strong server with thin clients and not put too much power to the thin clients.
08:50
However this is turning to be too complex because the network is saturated easily (bandwidth and packets per seconds).
08:51
Trouble that can be avoided by doing a very small X-Forward cache with a better compression method than the one forced by openssh in sshv2 protocol
08:52
<alkisg_web>
Have you actually tried this, or you just suppose that it would work?
08:52
Because in my experiense, compression in lan only makes matter worse
08:55
<antoiner>
it's just bluepaper ....... I try to do it. Here in my test lab of 30 thin clients, enabling the compression of openssh made things quicker without a big payload (Server is a Core 2 Duo at 2.4Ghz and clients are Atom N270)
08:55
<alkisg_web>
Do you have actual numbers? Bandwidth, cpu usage etc?
08:57
I believe even if just a few clients visit youtube with compression on, the server cpu usage will be 100%
08:58
<antoiner>
in a youtube usage the server cpu is at less than 10% and the client one less than 10%
08:58
and the bandwith is at near 90Mbps with is the top it can achieve with 2000 packets per sec
08:59
and 90Mbps in a windowed mode
08:59
youtube
08:59
not fullscreen witch is impossible to see
08:59
<alkisg_web>
That's with LDM_DIRECTX=False, whch is usually the default setting?
09:00
Or with LDM_DIRECTX=True?
09:00
<antoiner>
in True
09:00
<alkisg_web>
Then you're *NOT* using ssh
09:00
Not compression, not anything
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09:00
<antoiner>
oops
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09:00
<antoiner>
I thought it was only the encrypting algorithm
09:00
<alkisg_web>
Try again with LDM_DIRECTX=False, which is the default, you'll see what I'm talking about
09:01
You won't be able to work with more than just a few clients
09:01
<antoiner>
ok doing right now
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09:13
<antoiner>
lol all the window managers broke ........ I need to reinstall first ....... Thank you for the Tip. By the way, lowering to arcfour does not makes things better ?
09:24
<Gnoze5>
no ssh might be a bad idea..
09:24
btw alkisg_web does it use HPN by default?
09:25
<antoiner>
HPN ?
09:27
<Gnoze5>
High Performance SSH
09:27
i dont even know if you can in this situation
09:27
but i believe ssh is limited to 64k by default
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09:30
<antoiner>
what are the requisities for HPN ?
09:32
<Gnoze5>
i just thought of hpn tbh i dont even know if it can be used in this context
09:34
im not sure if it works with interactive sessions
09:37
<antoiner>
ok ;)
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12:10
<andygraybeal>
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1096/894127714_9f98afa6f5_o.jpg
12:11* alkisg could reuse those as closets :D
12:12
<andygraybeal>
:)
12:22
<stgraber>
anyone has an objection to me tagging a new ldm for upload in Oneiric ?
12:36
<highvoltage>
ldm v3.0.0? :p
12:42
<andygraybeal>
nice :)
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13:07
<stgraber>
nah, enough 3.0 for the week :)
13:08
Created tag ldm-2.2.2.
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13:10
<Dantix>
hi all, I'm in troubles to get booting a thin client. I've configured the box at mi datacenter and boots fine. The box must be at fabrile store, its place is trought a fiber optic link and a a switch, installed there I've receive "nfs server not responding, still trying"
13:11
and never boots
13:11
I have other boxes there and works fine, must be a kernel options related issue?
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13:17
<stgraber>
mgariepy: can you give me the magic string to start in classic gnome mode ? (value of LDM_SESSION)
13:21
mgariepy: nevermind, got it
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14:40
<antoiner>
Someone knows witch tftp server is used for ltsp under edubuntu 11.04 ? I try to restart it without restarting the whole server after installing ltsp ..... I've tried openbsd-tftp and tftpd-hpa but no results ...
14:40
<vagrantc>
might still be openbsd-inetd
14:41
<mnemoc>
antoiner: netstat -nlp will tell you what process is listening the tftp port
14:42
<antoiner>
it tells me "in.tftpd" ...... what is this tftp daemon ?
14:43
<mnemoc>
dpkg -S in.tftpd :)
14:44
or just shoot it using `kill` to that process
14:44
it will be respawned... most likely :p
14:44
<antoiner>
it's tftpd-hpa
14:44
<vagrantc>
grep tftp /etc/inetd.conf
14:45
<mnemoc>
/etc/init.d/tftpd-hpa restart ?
14:45
<vagrantc>
unless it's configured to run from inetd
14:45
which was the default for a long time ... not sure when ubuntu switched
14:45
<mnemoc>
if it's inetd it would be "restarted" on each connection
14:45
so it's running standalone
14:45
<antoiner>
vagrantc: nothing appear
14:46
<vagrantc>
ok, good. yes, tftpd-hpa then
14:47
<antoiner>
mnemoc: done it but the TFTP still gives me timeout .... the worse is that if I restart the computer then it works ...... It's just I try to do a script that activate ltsp without restarting it and without using the install script
14:48
it says me that it cannot open connection
14:48
<mnemoc>
antoiner: confirm it's pid changes when doing the restart
14:48
antoiner: it may be blocked
14:49
in which case an stop + start might be better
14:49
<antoiner>
mnemoc: confirmed
14:49
mnemoc: already tried the stop start ....... also via "service tftpd-hpa stop/start"
14:53
<mnemoc>
and /etc/init.d/tftpd-hpa ?
14:54
but well, just confirm it's down after stop-ing it
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14:57
<antoiner>
yes I confirm it's down after a stop
14:58
and the pid change when I start it again either way ....
14:58
is there any firewall thing or apparmor thing ?
14:58
my installation is just edubuntu + apt-get install ltsp-standalone-server
14:59
<mnemoc>
check iptables-save .... but afaik there is no firewalling by default on ubuntu
15:02
<antoiner>
nothing in iptable-save only comments
15:02
<warren>
anyone on Debian or Ubuntu but you have rpm installed? I need a quick test.
15:06
<antoiner>
sorry I don't have alien or rpm installed on my system
15:22
<mnemoc>
warren: I can install them if you still need the test
15:22
<warren>
mnemoc, nevermind, got help in #debian
15:22
<mnemoc>
ok
15:36
<Gnoze5>
yellow
15:39
<Hyperbyte>
Magenta?
15:39
<mnemoc>
cyan
15:41
<Hyperbyte>
Green.
15:41
<mnemoc>
CMY...G? uhm
15:42
<Hyperbyte>
Nah, it's "key". I was just randoming though. )
15:42
* =)
15:42
<mnemoc>
:)
15:42
<Hyperbyte>
Hey, while we're on the subject of thin computing... smartphones are pretty thin, right?
15:43
My boss broke the touchscreen of his HTC Desire HD... he said the phone sucks and he's gonna buy an iPhone. That hurt me, so I offered to replace his screen if he ordered a new one.
15:43
<mnemoc>
they count as fat, as they run local apps ;-)
15:43
<Hyperbyte>
I am -never- -ever- -under- -no- -circumstance- doing that again.
15:44
If you're curious what a HTC Desire HD looks like when it's all taken apart, see: http://twitpic.com/54qf5d/full
15:44
Oh, and in case you're wondering - yes, you have to disassemble the entire mainboard before it lets go of the screen.
15:44
<abeehc>
haha............good times
15:45
<Hyperbyte>
I got it though eventually. Took me a little over 3 hours I think.
15:46
It helped that the screen was already broken. Normally it's a bitch to remove, because it's glued to the chassis... nearly impossible to remove without breaking, unless you heat it so much the glue melts.
15:46
But since the screen was broken, I just got creative.
15:47Guerdal82|atWork (~Guerdal82@LLagny-156-35-33-131.w193-251.abo.wanadoo.fr) joined #ltsp.
15:47
<Hyperbyte>
Seriously though... -never- -ever- again. http://twitpic.com/54rsxv
15:48
On that note, good night. =)
15:52
<Gnoze5>
Hyperbyte lol. crazy.
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16:07
<Gnoze5>
hm
16:07
isnt memory shared when several users are using firefox for example?
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16:39
<Gnoze5>
the channel is too quite :P
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17:41
<Gnoze5>
*quiet
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00:00--- Tue May 31 2011