IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 16 April 2011   (all times are UTC)

00:26cyberorg (~cyberorg@opensuse/member/Cyberorg) joined #ltsp.
02:23Trixboxer (~Trixboxer@office.supportdepartment.net) joined #ltsp.
03:11Faithful (~Faithful@202.189.73.144) left irc: Read error: Connection reset by peer
03:25drdata (~drdata@pool-173-57-189-158.dllstx.fios.verizon.net) joined #ltsp.
03:26drdata (drdata@pool-173-57-189-158.dllstx.fios.verizon.net) left #ltsp.
03:47mistik1 (mistik1@unaffiliated/mistik1) left irc: Ping timeout: 248 seconds
04:23mistik1 (mistik1@unaffiliated/mistik1) joined #ltsp.
06:45ska (~ska@cpe-66-25-185-112.austin.res.rr.com) joined #ltsp.
06:45
<ska>
Is there a list of good thin-client hardware? Espeicially clients.
06:46
I'd like to boot from CF or some other type of flash.
06:53
<muppis>
You don't need any local media to boot thin. It boots over lan from server.
07:07
<ska>
Do the thins need to keep an NSF connection to the server permanent?
07:09
<alkisg>
NFS? Yes, either nfs or nbd or aoe or something
07:09
<ska>
Ok, I thought there was an option for one-time upload to static image.
07:10
<alkisg>
No, LTSP is about netbooted terminals with no local storage (or if there's a local storage, we don't use it for booting)
07:12
<Roasted>
ska, to give you an idea, in my test bed when I tested LTSP at first, I let Windows on the local hard drives but simply adjusted the boot menu to boot to network first, thereby ignoring the local hard drive (and Windows) even existed.
07:12
<ska>
alkisg: ok, I thought there might be an option that stores the / tree in a Ramfs/squashfs or similar. That was a network hickup won't crash the client.
07:12
<Roasted>
That way if Ubuntu was too much of a shock they could F9 during boot and select HDD and go back to Windows instead.
07:12
<ska>
s/was/way
07:13
<alkisg>
ska: if the client isn't logged on to the server when the hickup happens, then no big deal there. If it's logged on, then you have an ssh connection, so even if you had the image loaded in RAM, the client would still crash on network problems
07:13
So you don't really save much with a local image, except in some other use cases like fat clients on slow networks etc
07:14
<Roasted>
alkisg, on a fat client lab, if the network hiccups, does it exhibit the same problem a thin client lab would?
07:14
<alkisg>
Well we need to better define "hiccup" here
07:14
<Roasted>
enough of a hiccup to break the connection
07:14
a downed switch etc.
07:14
<alkisg>
E.g. nbd has the -persist option, which reconnects
07:15
So, the fat client disk will be reconnected
07:15
<ska>
Hiccup = 5 second network outtage
07:15
<alkisg>
But, ssh doesn't reconnect
07:15
So any sessions are lost
07:15
On fat clients though, that doesn't matter much
07:15
<Roasted>
so you're stuck whether fat or thin if a drop occurs
07:15
<alkisg>
After the initial authentication, the session runs locally
07:15
But, there's a problem with /home, which by default is with sshfs
07:15
That too, will get disconnected
07:16
But if you use nfs /home, then there's reconnection there
07:16
<Roasted>
but since clients go "through" the server for network access, they wouldn't suffer from that if a drop happens?
07:16
<alkisg>
In short, nbd and nfs reconnect, ssh doesn't
07:16
<Roasted>
does fat use ssh?
07:16
or just thin
07:16
<alkisg>
All use ssh for authentication
07:17
Fats and localapps normally use ssh for /home too, but they can also use NFS if instructed
07:17
(sshfs)
07:18
<Roasted>
after authentication, is ssh not used?
07:19
<alkisg>
Thins: the whole session is through ssh
07:19
Fats: ssh is basically used for sshfs /home
07:19
<Roasted>
man I really hope I can get fats working someday :(
07:19
I don't use /home on fats. I just set links to our storage servers and students click accordingly.
07:21
<alkisg>
strace -e trace=file "command-to-join-domain"
07:21
This will show you the files that likewise stores the domain joining info
07:21
<Roasted>
I join the domain via terminal anyway
07:21
would that help?
07:21
<alkisg>
Then you could store those files *per terminal*
07:21
I.e. join each client separately, as if it were a standalone machine
07:22
<Roasted>
but how... if each session is like a live disk...
07:22
<alkisg>
Store those files on the server, and on boot fetch them
07:22
A live disk with /home on the server
07:22
You can also have other stuff on the server, and copy them locally
07:22
It's not hard, 2-3 lines in a startup script
07:22
<Roasted>
so do what.. put hem in /etc/skel so each profile gets them?
07:22
<alkisg>
No, it's per client, not per user
07:23
You'd save the "domain joining" info
07:23
And reapply it on each boot, for each different client
07:23
It's pretty easy once you find out which files likewise writes to
07:24
<Roasted>
And you think that will remove the authentication BS I run into?
07:24
<alkisg>
It'll make them "identical" to standalone machines
07:24
Do you have that authentication BS on standalone machines/
07:24
?
07:24
<Roasted>
Nope.
07:25
only fat clients.
07:25
<alkisg>
Then nope on fats too
07:25
<Roasted>
Would this be rejoining them each time, or would it just be referencing files that makes ethe connection possible?
07:25
<alkisg>
Take another example. Hostname
07:25
Each ltsp client needs a different hostname. What do we do? We make a startup script that generates a hostname
07:25
Yours would be similar, except it'd copy some files instead of generating them
07:25
No, you'd only join them once
07:28
<Roasted>
So there's two angles here I need to accomplish. I need to find the files likewise opens during the boot process and copy them locally to each box. On the flip side, I also need to write a script o generate a hostname for each client.
07:28
Can I create 30 hostnames and have each box at random just pull one of the hostnames from that pool as they fire up?
07:28
<alkisg>
Ermmm no, the hostname was an example
07:28
Forget about it
07:28
<Roasted>
I see
07:28
<alkisg>
(1) you need to find out the files that likewise modifies when *you join a domain*. Not on boot.
07:29
(2) You need to boot all clients and join them to the domain, and *save that files on the server*
07:29
(3) Then you need a script that copies those files from the server to the client on boot, to their appropriate places
07:30
<Roasted>
so the client needs to get its exact files on boot... nobody elses
07:30
but its files from when it was joined
07:30
<alkisg>
Right
07:30Last message repeated 1 time(s).
07:30
<alkisg>
Probably just a couple of files, a few kb
07:30
<Roasted>
right. that's what I would expect.
07:30
<alkisg>
You could use tftp or anything for that, or even store them to the chroot
07:30
<Roasted>
I might be kind of lost on the creation of the script, however it sounds like it would be simple.
07:31
<alkisg>
So the (2) and (3) parts are trivial
07:31
The (1) part would be trivial for someone with likewise knowledge
07:31
<Roasted>
I can post on likewise forums for that.
07:31
While very helpful, they were a bit lost on what I was asking about the fat client authentication thing.
07:31
<alkisg>
OK. You can then try to reproduce it manually, i.e. do parts (2) and (3) with shell commands without scrpit
07:31
script
07:32
You didn't word it correctly
07:32
(probably)
07:32
You could say "I boot a live cd and join a domain"
07:32
<Roasted>
Not too sure... I spent a lot of time on it.
07:32
What would you think is more practical? Storing the files to the chroot or scripting it?
07:32
<alkisg>
"what files do I need to save, so that if I reboot the live cd, I can fetch those files and have the computer join the domain without reentering passwords etc"?
07:32
Both are trivial, no big deal there, don't worry about (2) and (3)
07:33
<Roasted>
I'll repost and ask that question the way you just worded it.
07:35
<alkisg>
Btw you can then put the AD authentication stuff on the chroot
07:35
And stop using ldm, and use gdm instead
07:35
<Roasted>
what are the advantages?
07:36
<alkisg>
With ad authentication directly on the client you wouldn't need ssh at all
07:36
So no problem at all with network hiccups
07:36
<Roasted>
but if I'm already on a fat client, network hiccups would be rare to be effected by anyway
07:36
<alkisg>
But that would require a few minor scripts. Leave that for later
07:36
Not really, because your whole /home is with sshfs
07:37
<Roasted>
but I don't really use /home for the users.
07:37
Their "/home" is our windows file server I have links to on the desktop.
07:37
<alkisg>
So any hiccup would break the connection, and your fat client wouldn't even have access to the desktop settings, wallpaper etc
07:37
<Roasted>
oh
07:37
I see
07:37
<alkisg>
It's not only "documents", you have "~/.local", "~/.gconf" etc
07:38
<Roasted>
yeah... I get what you mean now
07:38
well, I posted on likewise forums so we'll see what they say.
07:42
alkisg, is there anything that brewed up in the time discussion you were working on?
07:42
<alkisg>
I filed a bug about it in upstart
07:42
<Roasted>
anything else I can test on my end?
07:42
<alkisg>
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/upstart/+bug/759568
07:43
Nope, no need, I know exactly when it happens now
07:43
<Roasted>
nice, nice
07:43
if there's anything I can do to help test please let me know
07:43
<alkisg>
Your time problem is solved now, right?
07:44
<Roasted>
Well it works fine for me, however last we talked I didn't try anything new, and you sounded like you were on to something heavy at the moment.
07:44
So I just kind of sat in "stand by" until I heard more.l
07:44
<alkisg>
Yes, the problem wasn't related to time only
07:44
That's why I looked more into it
07:44
<Roasted>
I forget which line I used... because I had 3 options from what gadi/vagrantc/and you suggested to me.
07:45
<alkisg>
Something, maybe upstart, kills any processes spawned by initscripts if they delay
07:45
<Roasted>
but you also gave me 2 lines from what I'm reading here
07:45
<alkisg>
It doesn't matter now, I've seen when it happens
07:45
<Roasted>
I think I was still using vagrantc's suggestion
07:45
Sounds good. Appreciate the help.
07:45
I'll bookmark the bug so I can track it.
09:06Roasted (~jason@unaffiliated/roasted) left irc: Ping timeout: 246 seconds
09:14andygraybeal (~andy.gray@obsidian.casanueva.com) joined #ltsp.
09:29alkisg (~alkisg@ubuntu/member/alkisg) left irc: Read error: Connection reset by peer
09:30alkisg (~alkisg@ubuntu/member/alkisg) joined #ltsp.
10:01Roasted (~jason@unaffiliated/roasted) joined #ltsp.
10:22
<andygraybeal>
does anyone here use opennebula, and if so..do you recommend it to others?
10:23
i still haven't gotten into clustering, but i would like to be able to cluster for highavailability (if one system decides it wants to fail)
10:45alkisg_tinycore (4fa74ae3@gateway/web/freenode/ip.79.167.74.227) joined #ltsp.
10:46alexqwesa_ (~alex@2001:5c0:1000:b::5221) left irc: Read error: Operation timed out
10:46
<alkisg_tinycore>
Opera on tinycore Linux. RAM usage: 56 MB :O
10:46
<andygraybeal>
nice
10:47
prolly kicks the pants off of firefox, yes?
10:47
<alkisg_tinycore>
Yup, it uses half the RAM and has double the speed of debian/lxde/firefox that I tried installing locally on that old thin client with 128 RAM
10:49alexqwesa (~alex@alexo-veto.broker.freenet6.net) joined #ltsp.
11:07alkisg_tinycore (4fa74ae3@gateway/web/freenode/ip.79.167.74.227) left irc: Ping timeout: 252 seconds
11:28Ahmuck-Sr (~quietly@p178n22.ruraltel.net) joined #ltsp.
11:28Ahmuck (~quietly@p178n22.ruraltel.net) left irc: Ping timeout: 240 seconds
11:44cyberorg (~cyberorg@opensuse/member/Cyberorg) left irc: Remote host closed the connection
12:29rad4Christ (~rad4Chris@165.166.57.122) joined #ltsp.
13:13alkisg (~alkisg@ubuntu/member/alkisg) left irc: Quit: Leaving.
13:22
<andygraybeal>
anyone virtualizing their LTSP machines, i need some help
13:23
how do you get two network cards on an LTSP virtual machine... and hvae the second network card send out DHCP addresses to real physical clients?
13:23
<abeehc>
vlans i figure
13:23
do you have two in the host?
13:23
<andygraybeal>
yea, there are two nics in the host
13:24
i'm using KVM/libvirt
13:24
<abeehc>
it's not pretty really
13:24
i think you gotta create two br interfaces
13:24
<andygraybeal>
neither is my girlfriend, but it still works.
13:24
<abeehc>
im realy intimate
13:24
<andygraybeal>
abeehc, that's what i'm thinking... but the second br would be static? i'm so confused by this
13:25
<abeehc>
I'm not sure yo uneed to give the host an ip on the second br
13:25
<andygraybeal>
it needs something, right?
13:25
static or dhcp?
13:25
<abeehc>
ive got a real serious cold though.. lemme just see how my vlans go again
13:25
<andygraybeal>
can't be just nothing ... yes?
13:25
<muppis>
Manual in host.
13:25
<abeehc>
manual i think
13:26
<andygraybeal>
is manual different from static?
13:26
<muppis>
Yes.
13:26
Static requreis settings, manual leaves is it as is.
13:26
<andygraybeal>
ah.. confusion.. must read
13:26
okay thank you muppis
13:26
i just sent this out to the list too
13:26
<abeehc>
yeah even for my vlans after the primary interface evertyhing is manual
13:27
<andygraybeal>
can you pastebin a /etc/network/interfaces config for me?
13:28
<abeehc>
i can it has some other funny stuff too
13:28
<andygraybeal>
or just email me
13:28
if you want
13:28
andy dot graybeal at casa nueva dot com
13:29
<abeehc>
http://pastebin.com/gYz9BheE
13:29
that does work for my vlanning switch
13:30
<andygraybeal>
what brand/model do you have?
13:30
<abeehc>
it struck me the other day an interesting thing to play with on the guest is noop io
13:30
<andygraybeal>
i've been swooning over an HP
13:30
<abeehc>
i try an only use hp
13:30
procurve 2848 '
13:30* andygraybeal looks it up
13:30
<abeehc>
little old but capable
13:30
really.. it's overkill at home
13:31
but my real girlfriend doesn't come into my office and look at my other girlfriends
13:31
thy are all kinda loud too real or otherwise
13:31
<andygraybeal>
:)
13:32
when you say it's a little old, what do yuo mean? i'm thinking about buying it for our small office here at wokr
13:32
<abeehc>
i'm pretty sure mfg date is about 3-4 years ago.. i have some friends in a big company; gave me 5 of them for nothin
13:32
rececycleftw
13:32
<andygraybeal>
wow
13:32
it supports vlans?
13:32
i mean iobviously
13:33
and it's GB!
13:33
they is selling $500+ a pop on ebay
13:33
i'll buy one from you if you want to sell
13:33
if your in the states i guess
13:33
ididn't think abou tthat sort of thing
13:35Trixboxer (~Trixboxer@office.supportdepartment.net) left irc: Quit: "Achievement is not the end, its the beginning of new journey !!!"
13:35
<abeehc>
i would but i only kept one and more or less donated the rest to my work cause we are poor
13:36
for sure i couldn't go without decent vlanning anymore heh
13:36
<andygraybeal>
how do you control them, is it web interface or command line (or both?)
13:37
i've never used a managed switch before and i'm a little scared, and this is the cheapest 48 port GB one i've seen so far!
13:38
<abeehc>
both are available provided your patient enough for the web java
13:38
i pref the command line it's quicker
13:38
<andygraybeal>
ah okay awesome
13:38rad4Christ (~rad4Chris@165.166.57.122) left irc: Read error: Connection reset by peer
13:39rad4Christ_ (~rad4Chris@165.166.57.122) joined #ltsp.
13:39
<andygraybeal>
so the switch has an ip address and can handle different network segments all at once... this is what i need
13:39
<abeehc>
absolutely
13:39
<andygraybeal>
awesome, i'm going to get one off of ebay
13:40
abeehc, what is your work?
13:41ska (~ska@cpe-66-25-185-112.austin.res.rr.com) left irc: Quit: Leaving
13:42
<andygraybeal>
abeehc, ah you have a config error in your interfaces file!
13:42
<abeehc>
i wouldn't be suprised haha
13:43
<andygraybeal>
spelled bridge wrong @ bottom of br0 config paragraph
13:43
line from the bottom
13:43
switched letters
13:43
typo
13:43
hah same for all of them
13:43
<abeehc>
lol
13:44
it works i think that string is not so strict
13:44
but that doesn't look too smart
13:44
<andygraybeal>
thank you for this config and teaching me about that switch
13:44
<abeehc>
no worries good luck
13:45
<andygraybeal>
does anyone here use swipe cards for authentication to LTSP?
13:46alexqwesa (~alex@alexo-veto.broker.freenet6.net) left irc: Ping timeout: 260 seconds
13:47
<NeonLicht>
In case someone else (besides me) didn't know what swipe cards are: http://www.cartoonstock.com/lowres/dre0911l.jpg
13:49alexqwesa (~alex@alexo-veto.broker.freenet6.net) joined #ltsp.
14:29
<andygraybeal>
NeonLicht, awesome thank you
14:29
hah, awful
14:31chupacabra (~chupacabr@cpe-70-112-10-45.austin.res.rr.com) left irc: Ping timeout: 248 seconds
14:31
<NeonLicht>
haha
14:32
<andygraybeal>
:)
14:32rad4Christ_ (~rad4Chris@165.166.57.122) left irc: Ping timeout: 246 seconds
14:37chupacabra (~chupacabr@cpe-70-112-10-45.austin.res.rr.com) joined #ltsp.
14:52chupacabra (~chupacabr@cpe-70-112-10-45.austin.res.rr.com) left irc: Ping timeout: 240 seconds
14:53
<andygraybeal>
abeehc, if yuor still around.. i'm wondering being set to manual, does something need to turn it on? .... or does it just work ... with the bridged connection?
14:58
<abeehc>
hmm well you do need br-utils package i think
14:59
then your vm config file needs to reference that bridge itnerface
15:09chupacabra (~chupacabr@cpe-70-112-10-45.austin.res.rr.com) joined #ltsp.
15:15
<abeehc>
i think ifconfig should give you indication everythign went right if your troubleshooting the host boot anyway
15:16rad4Christ (~rad4Chris@165.166.57.122) joined #ltsp.
15:32rad4Christ (~rad4Chris@165.166.57.122) left irc: Quit: rad4Christ
16:00vagrantc (~vagrant@c-24-21-191-93.hsd1.or.comcast.net) joined #ltsp.
16:31herman_ (~herman@p5790A661.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #ltsp.
16:32
<herman_>
Hi all
16:32
I need some help :-)
16:33
<vagrantc>
go ahead and ask questions, and patiently wait for people to be available who can help... please include the distro and version/release you're using.
16:36herman_ (~herman@p5790A661.dip.t-dialin.net) left irc: Ping timeout: 248 seconds
16:48herman_ (~herman@87.144.166.97) joined #ltsp.
16:49
<herman_>
I have a unstable internet connection on my LTSP server and I cannot find the cause of that
16:52Egyptian[Home] (~marafa@adsl-99-168-79-235.dsl.wotnoh.sbcglobal.net) joined #ltsp.
16:58Egyptian[Home] (marafa@adsl-99-168-79-235.dsl.wotnoh.sbcglobal.net) left #ltsp.
17:22herman_ (~herman@87.144.166.97) left irc: Quit: Ex-Chat
18:22Roasted (~jason@unaffiliated/roasted) left irc: Remote host closed the connection
18:45Roasted (~jason@unaffiliated/roasted) joined #ltsp.
19:33afz0r (~afz0r@187.139.89.85) joined #ltsp.
19:34
<afz0r>
Hello there! Does anybody know about a howto or guide to set up LTSP to work with the slim login manager? All I see in the manual are gdm, kdm and xdm
19:37
<vagrantc>
afz0r: does slim support xdmcp?
19:37
afz0r: or are you talking about fatclients?
19:38
<afz0r>
vagrantc, not sure slim supports xdmcp, but I would guess it doesn't! netstat ap | grep xdmcp doesn't return anything
19:39
<vagrantc>
afz0r: if it does support xdmcp, you'd probably have to configure it
19:39
<afz0r>
I was wondering if it could be configured to support it or something
19:39
<vagrantc>
but in general, xdmcp is deprecated
19:40
<afz0r>
doesn't say anything about xdmcp on the slim home-page or the slim manual.
19:41
<vagrantc>
i doubt it supports it
19:41
<afz0r>
Nope
19:41
<vagrantc>
at least from the package description: "It is particularly suitable for machines that don't require remote logins."
19:42
that sounds pretty explicitly like it doesn't support xdmcp
19:42
<afz0r>
Just looked at the archwiki (I don't currently use Arch but this wiki has a lot of info) and it says slim doesn't support it
19:42
<vagrantc>
afz0r: are you doing fatclients?
19:42
afz0r: because otherwise, i'd say stick with LDM
19:42
<afz0r>
vagrantc, I'm doing thin clients, as far as I know, so I'll just switch to--I was going to say xdm
19:42
but if ldm works, hey why not
19:43
<vagrantc>
afz0r: the default LTSP is to use LDM
19:43
afz0r: what distro?
19:43
<afz0r>
vagrantc, I'm using LTSP-3
19:43
<vagrantc>
?!?!
19:43
<afz0r>
I know!
19:44
See, I'm setting it up at my workplace, and the guy in charge insists that we use version 3, on RedHat 5 servers. It's madness.
19:44
<vagrantc>
LTSP 5 has been around for what, 5-6 years now
19:44
i don't know how long ago LTSP 4.x was released ...
19:44
madness indeed.
19:45
<afz0r>
Yeah, already put up a suggestion up pretty much everyone, that we use LTSP 5 or at least 4.
19:45
But no...
19:45MorningSon (~MorningSo@cpe-72-181-35-91.satx.res.rr.com) joined #ltsp.
19:45
<afz0r>
Anyway, it pretty much works except it's not linking to a display manager.
19:45
I'll get ldm and xdm and test it with those
19:46
<vagrantc>
LDM won't work
19:46
there may be incompatibilities implemented in the X server that just plain won't work
19:46
<afz0r>
Ah, that's good to know
19:47
And I guess gdm would be too much bloat
19:47
<vagrantc>
although presumably redhat 5 is old enough that it'll be compatible
19:47
with xdmcp
19:47
<afz0r>
Yep
19:47
<vagrantc>
i.e. xdm, gdm, kdm should all be configurable with xdmcp
19:48
afz0r: they're logging into the same server running the LTSP 3 install?
19:48
or are you trying to log into other servers?
19:49
<afz0r>
vagrantc, they are logging into the server running the LTSP 3 install
19:49
There won't ever be more than perhaps 15 people connected to it at the same time, at any given time
19:50
Well, I'm off to do some testing and stuffs, brb then!
19:50
<vagrantc>
just trying to make sure you aren't connecting to some newer server
19:51
<afz0r>
vagrantc, nope
19:58alkisg (~alkisg@ubuntu/member/alkisg) joined #ltsp.
21:03alkisg (~alkisg@ubuntu/member/alkisg) left irc: Quit: Leaving.
21:41shawnp0wers (~spowers@linuxjournal/staff/shawnp0wers) joined #ltsp.
21:42shawnp0wers (~spowers@linuxjournal/staff/shawnp0wers) left irc: Client Quit
21:50shawnp0wers (~spowers@linuxjournal/staff/shawnp0wers) joined #ltsp.
21:51shawnp0wers (~spowers@linuxjournal/staff/shawnp0wers) left irc: Client Quit
22:22vagrantc (~vagrant@c-24-21-191-93.hsd1.or.comcast.net) left irc: Quit: leaving
22:58MorningSon (~MorningSo@cpe-72-181-35-91.satx.res.rr.com) left irc: Ping timeout: 276 seconds
00:00--- Sun Apr 17 2011