IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 25 October 2007   (all times are UTC)

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00:01
<Nurionn>
hi
00:02
i've a problem using ltsp-5 on debian etch
00:02
I can connect whit any client on the server, but only once.
00:03
afterwards it shows the error-message 'PXE-E61: Media check failure, check cable'
00:04
anyone an idee what I can do? (sorry if my English isn't correct, I'm from Switzerland)
00:10
<lns>
Nurionn, that is a physical cabling issue
00:10
make sure your network cable and switch/hub are ok
00:11
<Nurionn>
they are ok, but only until the first restart
00:11
on every client I testet
00:16
I'll just test another (non-managable) switch, even I'm almost sure the other one works...
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00:23
<Nurionn>
is it possible that a client receives an IP adress (and I can ping it) even it shows 'PXE-E61: Media check failure, check cable' ?
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01:52
<osl>
hi all , i wanna ask wut's about the right type of clustering that should be used with LTSP ??
01:53
ogra, are u there ?
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02:34
<sep>
osl,i tested it with LDM_SERVERS=server1,server2,server3 but dont use it in production
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02:57
<Nurionn>
I've found something out: If i take off the power cable, they work anew.
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02:57
<Nurionn>
is it possible, that they dont properly shut down and stock some information local?
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02:58
<Nurionn>
(I mean the thinclients)
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03:48
<gypsymauro>
hi
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03:49
<gypsymauro>
I've installed ltsp 5 on gutsy but I dunno how to set the default language and the use of local devices, reading lts.conf it says that isn't used anymore and there is a file in the tftp root but it's using nfs not tftp.. (?)
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04:02
<EXP2>
i have 71.0 and ltsp 5 combination. i have installed nvidia-glx and dependencies to chroot. but when i use XSERVER= nvidia, i get a blank screen. when i don't use that it works, but when logging out mouse cursor becomes invisible
04:02
7.10
04:03
it worked with 7.04 nad ltsp5
04:03
and
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04:56
<osl>
gypsymauro, if u want to use the /opt/ltsp/(Arch)/etc/lts.conf then u have to compress the image everytime u modify it .. if u don't want to do that then u have to copy lts.conf to /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/(Arch)
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06:00
<EXP2>
i have a serious problems with 7.10/ltsp5 and nvidia graphics
06:00
it won't work
06:00
i get a blinking line in top corner
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06:04
<EXP2>
i have installed nvidia-glx into /opt/ltsp/i386/, and ltsp-update-kernels
06:04
ogra are you here?
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06:29
<EXP2>
how you can change screen resolution in 7.10/ltsp5
06:32
ping ogra
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06:51
<EXP2>
anyone have 7.10 and ltsp5 working?
06:54
<Nurionn>
no sorry, can't help you
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07:07
<EXP2>
finally i got it working but but resolution is on ly 800x600
07:08
how i can make it bigger?
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07:17
<ogra_cmpc>
EXP2: set X_MODE_0="1024x786" in lts.conf
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08:00
<sbalneav>
Morning all
08:00
<Blinny>
Good morning!
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08:15
<cdealeer>
[sbalneav]:: good morning. You think that you will be able to see the password expiration issue until the next month? Its something very important to me =D
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08:33
<Guaraldo>
!s
08:33
<ltspbot>
Guaraldo: "s" is Scotty!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
08:33
<sbalneav>
cdealeer: Well, it worked here for me, can you look on the thin client, in /var/log/ldm.log, and email me it's contents for a password change?
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09:18
<sbalneav>
!localdev
09:18
<ltspbot>
sbalneav: "localdev" is (#1) Information regarding using pluggable devices and cdroms with LTSP can be found at http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/LTSP-42-LocalDev, or (#2) for ubuntu: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EnableLTSP5LocalDevices, or (#3) for debian-edu: http://wiki.debian.org/DebianEdu/HowTo/LocalDeviceLtspfs, or (#4) http://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebugLocalDev
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09:58
<daresbalat>
hey, ive got a thin client working fine, btu the graphics are pretty sluggish - is there anything i can do to speed this up?
09:59
hey, ive got a thin client working fine, btu the graphics are pretty sluggish - is there anything i can do to speed this up?
10:00
whoops
10:00
<sbalneav>
daresbalat: Care to give us a little more info? Which server, version of ltsp?
10:00
What kind of thin client
10:00
what's your network speed
10:00
<daresbalat>
kubuntu feisty server with a neoware thin client
10:00
<sbalneav>
how fasts your server
10:00
etc.
10:00
<daresbalat>
umm normal network is that 10mbs?
10:01
server is a p4 with 1.5 gb ram
10:01
wondered if there was some useful lts.conf one liner :)
10:01
<sbalneav>
Well, I don't know, what do you have? Is it a 10 mbps network?
10:01
<daresbalat>
yeah
10:01
<sbalneav>
That would be your biggest problem.
10:01
<Blinny>
sbalneav: You sure?
10:01
sbalneav: You could add SPEEDUP_MY_SERVER = Y to lts.conf
10:02
<daresbalat>
yeah i mean ive run stuff like this before and its not been so sluggish...
10:02
<sbalneav>
MAKE_EVERYTHING_FASTER = Y
10:02
<Blinny>
I did it to my car and now it's superfast.
10:02
<daresbalat>
s there anyway i can allocare ram to the thi client graphics?
10:02
<ogra>
your car uses an lts.conf ?
10:02
<daresbalat>
(sorry im not used to this keyboard)
10:02
<Blinny>
ogra: Of course. It needs to connect to my bigcar at home in order to start.
10:03
<ogra>
whee
10:03
<sbalneav>
You might also want to look at updating the ldm to accept the LDM_DIRECTX parameter
10:03
!ldm
10:03
<ltspbot>
sbalneav: "ldm" is You can find the updated ldm that supports the LDM_DIRECTX parameter for bypassing ssh encryption at http://alburg.net/ldm
10:03
<ogra>
remote booting car :)
10:03
<Blinny>
*vroom*
10:03
<sbalneav>
An upgrade to gutsy would help that too.
10:03
<ogra>
sbalneav, you should update that text
10:03
<sbalneav>
yeah
10:03
<ogra>
its not really "the updated ldm" anymore :)
10:03
<sbalneav>
ltspbot: forget ldm
10:03
<ltspbot>
sbalneav: The operation succeeded.
10:03* ogra relocates
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10:04
<daresbalat>
so you think i should upgrade to gutsy? im a bit lost now :p
10:04
all this car talk
10:04
<sbalneav>
ltspbot: learn ldm as: For feisty users, a newer LDM will allow you to use the LDM_DIRECTX parameter. Either update to gutsy, or get a backported feisty LDM at http://alburg.net/ldm
10:04
<ltspbot>
sbalneav: (learn [<channel>] <key> as <value>) -- Associates <key> with <value>. <channel> is only necessary if the message isn't sent on the channel itself. The word 'as' is necessary to separate the key from the value. It can be changed to another word via the learnSeparator registry value.
10:05
<sbalneav>
ltspbot: learn ldm as For feisty users, a newer LDM will allow you to use the LDM_DIRECTX parameter. Either update to gutsy, or get a backported feisty LDM at http://alburg.net/ldm
10:05
<ltspbot>
sbalneav: The operation succeeded.
10:05
<sbalneav>
!ldm
10:05
<ltspbot>
sbalneav: "ldm" is For feisty users, a newer LDM will allow you to use the LDM_DIRECTX parameter. Either update to gutsy, or get a backported feisty LDM at http://alburg.net/ldm
10:05
<daresbalat>
loooooool
10:05
okok i get it :p
10:05
<sbalneav>
not directed at you
10:05
I'm just updating the info and making sure it works.
10:06
<daresbalat>
haha ahhh i thought the bot was flipping out :)
10:08
so... is there anythign i can do to improve my thin client graphics performance? or will i just need a betetr graphics card?
10:09
<sbalneav>
uhhh
10:09
Didn't you see what we just did with the ldm?
10:09
you could try that.
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<daresbalat>
what is the ldm? ltsp display manager?
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10:10
<sbalneav>
yup
10:10
<daresbalat>
hmm so what would i do with that file?
10:11
<sbalneav>
Replace the ldm that's in /opt/ltsp/i386/usr/sbin with that one
10:11
make sure it's executable
10:12
<daresbalat>
ahha gottit
10:12
thanksss
10:12
<ogra_cmpc>
and set LDM_DIRCTX=True
10:12
<sbalneav>
add LDM_DIRECTX=True to your lts.conf file
10:12
<daresbalat>
so whats that line doing?
10:12* ogra_cmpc pokes his E
10:13
<sbalneav>
Bypassing the ssh encryption
10:13
<daresbalat>
ahhhhhh nice
10:14
saves a lot of unneeded encryption?
10:14* ogra_cmpc wouldnt say unneeded
10:14
<daresbalat>
hehehe
10:15
<ogra_cmpc>
i.e. i wouldnt do online banking with LDM_DIRCTX=True in a public thin client setup
10:15
<cdealer>
[sbalneav]:: hwo do i log in the thinclient tty ?
10:15
<daresbalat>
ah no this isnt public
10:16
<ogra_cmpc>
daresbalat: well, its not your home network, there are users, arent the4re ?
10:16
<daresbalat>
cdealer: you need to chmod into your thi client fodler and use passwd
10:16
ogra_cmpc: its a home office network :)
10:16
<ogra_cmpc>
cdealer: or set SCREEN_02=shell
10:16
<Blinny>
Gutsy already has that LDM right? So if s/he were on Gutsy s/he would only have to set the LDM_DIRECTX parameter?
10:17
<ogra_cmpc>
Blinny: exactly
10:17
<cdealer>
[ogra_cmpc]:: at /opt/ltsp/i386/lts.conf, right?
10:17
<Blinny>
Thank you.
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10:17
<daresbalat>
ogra_cmpc, sbalneav thanks for your help, gonaa do a reset and see how it goes
10:17
ttfn
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10:17
<ogra_cmpc>
cdealer: in gutsy rather use /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/lts.conf
10:19
<Blinny>
Is it more trouble than it's worth to run the x86_64 ver of Gutsy? Mind, I have 8GB RAM and I'd rather not stray from default kernels.
10:20
<cdealer>
[ogra_cmpc]:: ok, rebooting now =)
10:21
<ogra_cmpc>
Blinny: i'm not sure how the status of flash is atm
10:21
thats the only thing that would hold me back for using amd64 in case my users want folash
10:21
s/for/from
10:21
<Blinny>
Right now I run FF64 through npviewer
10:21
or, the plugins for FF64 through npviewer
10:21
Except Java crashes randomly.
10:22
<ogra_cmpc>
native java on amd64 should be fine
10:22
<cdealer>
[Blinny]:: npviewer? How do you see npviewer reports on linux? O.o
10:22
<ogra_cmpc>
(gutsy has icedtea already)
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10:23
<Blinny>
cdealer: npviewer is a component of nspluginwrapper, a 32-bit plugin loader for 64-bit FF
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10:23
<Blinny>
Nice.
10:24
I tried blackdown's but it didn't fare so well.
10:24
<daresbalat>
hmm. doesnt seem to have made much difference :(
10:24
<Blinny>
ogra_cmpc: but there aren't any physical limitations on RAM/CPUs/Cores/etc in the server edition of Gutsy?
10:24
<sbalneav>
daresbalat: It probably wont if your network is 10mbs
10:25
<cdealer>
[Blinny]:: here npviewer is being used to see some kind of reports that looks like pdf files... but dont
10:25
<ogra_cmpc>
Blinny: the several kernel packages fulfull different purposes ... the -server kernel is what you want for 8gig
10:25
<daresbalat>
sbalneav: is it really that netowrk intensive? hmmm
10:26
<sbalneav>
Well, seeing as how EVERYTHING comes across the network, graphics, root dir, etc.
10:26
<ogra_cmpc>
Blinny: or if you have around 64CPUs you could use teh -bigiron flavor ;)
10:26
<Blinny>
heh
10:26
<daresbalat>
sbalneav: ahh. would putting mroe ram in the thin help? or irrlevant?
10:26
<cdealer>
[ogra_cmpc]:: any further configuration for my shell work? Placed a lts.conf file with SCREEN_02=shell on the path you said and didnt work, made the same on /opt/ltsp/i386 doesnt work too ... I have a login prompt on tty1 but cant login, tried already with all the box users
10:26
<Blinny>
ogra_cmpc: Thanks.
10:27
<ogra_cmpc>
cdealer: dont forget you need a [default] section
10:27
<sbalneav>
daresbalat: how much ram is in it?
10:27
<cdealer>
[ogra_cmpc]:: that is it =D
10:27
<daresbalat>
sbalneav: not sure. hmm. and dont know how id check without taking it apart
10:27
<Blinny>
The BIOS post screen will tell you yes?
10:28
<ogra_cmpc>
cdealer: also if you still want the graphical login on tty7 add SCREEN_07=ldm
10:28
<daresbalat>
ahh yeh good thinking
10:28
i thnk it is maybe 128meg ram
10:28
<cdealer>
[ogra_cmpc]:: ok, will try to login with a expired password user and get the log to sbalneav see whats happening
10:29
<daresbalat>
theres a sticker on the side syaing it... but it could lie
10:29
<ogra_cmpc>
cdealer: great :)
10:29
daresbalat: do you know which graphics chipset is in there ?
10:30
<daresbalat>
ogra_cmpc: i put in an old ati pci card
10:31
<ogra_cmpc>
well, might be that its not well supported and teh vesa driver gets used automatically
10:31
<daresbalat>
hmm i had to put a specific line in to make it work, XSERVER=ati
10:31
<ogra_cmpc>
that would make your screen a bit sluggish
10:32
<daresbalat>
ogra_cmpc: i think its some kind of 3d rage
10:33
<ogra_cmpc>
there is probably another driver you can use ... try radeon
10:33
<cdealer>
[sbalneav]:: want me to send to your email or pastebin ?
10:33
<daresbalat>
ogra_cmpc: ok, cool :)
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10:33
<daresbalat>
ogra_cmpc: you think it shouldnt be this sluggish?
10:34
<ogra_cmpc>
depends, i dont know your setup ...
10:34
<daresbalat>
ogra_cmpc: thats cool. i mean its only 1 thin client, its kinda weird. ive never done thins with kde before though
10:34
<ogra_cmpc>
but graphics card driver would be my first look after making sure the network is fine and fast enough in thats case
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10:35
<daresbalat>
cool. im test driving these eons for some social centre setup i need to do soon, would be godo fi they could work well coz theyre super cheap and very nice and quiet
10:35
ill try it just gonan reset, brb
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10:38
<cdealer>
[ogra_cmpc]:: why every file i save on the client i cant see on the server? Im trying to save the log so I can just send it but it doenst appears here
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10:41
<daresbalat>
ogra_cmpc: well it seems almost exactly the same if not worse. maybe you're right and tis defualting to vesa
10:41
is there any way to tell for sure?
10:42
<ogra_cmpc>
thats feisty ?
10:42
<daresbalat>
yeah
10:42
would upgrading to gutsy be an idea?
10:42
<ogra_cmpc>
sudo chroot /opt/ltsp/i386 passwd
10:42
copy and paste that
10:43
that sets a rootpw in the client
10:43
use: sudo chroot /opt/ltsp/i386 passwd -l
10:43
to lock it again later
10:43
if thaqts set, you can log in on the client at the console as root with the pw you just set
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10:44
<daresbalat>
ahh ok
10:44
<ogra_cmpc>
read /etc/X11/xorg.conf on teh running client
10:44
and see if its vesa, ati or whatever
10:44
<daresbalat>
so do i need to quit the gui to get to the terminal login?
10:45
<ogra_cmpc>
hit ctrl-alt-f1
10:45
<cdealer>
[ogra_cmpc]:: but im loged already on the thinclient ... the problem isnt to login is to see the ldm.log file I just copied... (cp /var/log/ldm.log /home)
10:45
<sutula>
Should client USB disks work? If so, where should they show up?
10:45
<ogra_cmpc>
to get back to gui hit ctrl-alt-f7
10:45
<daresbalat>
ogra_cmpc: of course, thanks.
10:46
ogra_cmpc: it says ati, even tho i just cahnged it to radeon?
10:47
<ogra_cmpc>
then the radeon driver didnt work and it fell back to ati
10:47
try vesa for teh fun of it :)
10:47
<daresbalat>
lol, ok
10:48
alright, brb again :)
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10:54
<ogra_cmpc>
cdealer: /home?
10:54
why?
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10:54
<ogra_cmpc>
/home on the client is the clients ram ,,, wont gain you much
10:54
<cdealer>
[ogra_cmpc]:: just want to copy somewhere so I could see it from here... on the server box
10:54
<ogra_cmpc>
scp it
10:55
<cdealer>
[ogra_cmpc]:: I tried... its says that the public key was not found bla bla bla =/
10:55
<ogra_cmpc>
scp <filename> <a_valid_user_on_the_server>@server:/tmp/
10:55
hmm
10:58
<sbalneav>
use the ip address of the server, maybe
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10:58
<daresbalat>
ogra_cmpc: what are the chances, vesa deosnt work :)
10:58
think its because its an LCD monitor and whatever defualt res it was throing up it didt like
10:58
<cdealer>
Permission Denied, please try again; Permission Denied, please try again; Permission denied (publickey, password).; lost connection (every frase in a new line
10:59
[sbalneav]:: ogra, ^
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11:12
<cdealer>
O.o
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11:17
<cdealer>
[sbalneav]:: Warning: no xauth data; using fake authentication data for X11 forwarding. Is this normal on ldm.log?
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11:21
<daresbalat>
im gonan take a break. thanks for everyones help
11:23
<sutula>
Can anyone help debug client USB storage woes? This on the Debian/Ubuntu packaging.
11:24
I've seen the wiki section on Local Drive Access, but the USB device doesn't get automounted
11:25
I don't know where syslog logs to, so can't see if there's any error output when I plug it in
11:25
It does show up in /proc/bus/usb/devices
11:25
<sbalneav>
!localdeb
11:25
<ltspbot>
sbalneav: Error: "localdeb" is not a valid command.
11:25
<sbalneav>
!localdev
11:25
<ltspbot>
sbalneav: "localdev" is (#1) Information regarding using pluggable devices and cdroms with LTSP can be found at http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/LTSP-42-LocalDev, or (#2) for ubuntu: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EnableLTSP5LocalDevices, or (#3) for debian-edu: http://wiki.debian.org/DebianEdu/HowTo/LocalDeviceLtspfs, or (#4) http://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebugLocalDev
11:25
<sbalneav>
Link #4 there should help you
11:26
<sutula>
sbalneav: Thanks...I'll start there
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11:35
<ogra_cmpc>
sbalneav: server defaults to teh server IP, its added to /etc/hosts at boot
11:35
<sbalneav>
yeah
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12:03
<aep>
hi
12:04
so where do you folks get your thin clients from. the ones i can find for X11 are so expensive, i could just buy a full machione
12:04
<vagrantc>
but do you *want* a full machine?
12:04
<aep>
well no
12:05
<lns>
aep, you can check out www.disklessworkstations.com - that helps the development of LTSP
12:05
<aep>
i want a stupid terminal that can run an X server
12:05* aep does
12:05* aep gasps
12:05
<lns>
or, I just found http://www.thesymbiont.com as well, they seem to have decent prices
12:05
<aep>
120€
12:05Daggett has quit IRC
12:05
<vagrantc>
getting a good thin-client will reduce your electricity costs considerably.
12:06
<aep>
where is the point of terminals when they cost more then a fat client :(
12:06
<vagrantc>
they on't have moving parts (i.e. rarely break down) and use way less electricity.
12:06
<lns>
that's kinda what I don't get..you get much less computer, but for more money? ...Thin clients are still a commodity I think, that's why..when they become more mainstream, they'll have more competition
12:07
HP recently bought Neoware
12:07
<ogra_cmpc>
aep: about 60% power cost savings
12:08
centralized maintenance (all you have to care for is the server)
12:08
easy replacement if something breaks with no dataloss (userdata is on teh server, replacing a client doesnt take more than changing a lightbulb)
12:09
<vagrantc>
or, just find used computers that consume more power but cost nothing
12:09* ogra_cmpc would take thin clients even if they would cost more than teh standard PCs
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12:09
<aep>
yes the centralized maintainance is what i want. but hard to convine the bosses when a thin client costs more then a fat client
12:10
<lns>
aep, they don't really cost more, just almost the same, at least as far as i've seen
12:10
<aep>
it's allready a pain telling them outlook won't work pfft
12:10
<lns>
thesymbiont.com has good prices, check out their SYM1110
12:11
it's small and sexy, too - that is a major thing for the "microsofties"
12:11
<vagrantc>
aep: so, do some math.
12:11
<aep>
lns: for me too :p
12:12
<vagrantc>
aep: your bosses will like it if it can demonstrate a significant cost savings. and if you can't demonstrate that, then maybe you shouldn't switch.
12:12
<lns>
aep, yes...as much as techies don't want to admit it, the physical look of things is REALLY a major factor regarding if you enjoy using it or not
12:12
just look at apple
12:12* ogra_cmpc has no browser available but maddog gave a talk in portlad at ubuntulive with nice numbers in teh slides
12:13
<ogra_cmpc>
you should probably google for maddog thin client savings and might get a nice presentation for your boss
12:13
<aep>
lns: you happen to know the prices for thesymbiont?
12:13
<ogra_cmpc>
(he computed in gigawatts though, not in dollars)
12:14
<lns>
aep, I just got a quote yesterday for a batch of 20 SYM1110 - they were $229 each
12:14
US
12:15
<aep>
ew. still a lot.
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12:15
<lns>
aep, well... you might want to look at buying used computers then =p you can't get much lower than that, and if you can, i'd love to hear where
12:15* lns is afk
12:16
<aep>
yeah sad
12:16
<vagrantc>
there's a few thin-clients for around US $120 ... but they tend to suck.
12:17* ogra_cmpc wouldnt expect something good below $200 (new indeed)
12:18
<aep>
that's a standard desktop machine, vista included :(
12:18
oh dollars.
12:18
<vagrantc>
aep: you're not going to win any arguments on initial costs. you're going to win on maintenance: medium to long-term costs.
12:19
<ogra_cmpc>
buy them used :) you can get 10 clients for $1000 of the same quaity from ebay
12:19
<aep>
well... we got 8 computers here
12:20
actually i just want an ltsp to stop running around the building fixing them
12:20
<ogra_cmpc>
how much time do you spend each week for running around?
12:20
<aep>
i guess ltsp just dooesn't make sense at that scale
12:20
like 3 hours a day
12:20* vagrantc finds it makes sense on a scale of 3+ computers
12:21
<ogra_cmpc>
ltsp makes alwazs sense :)
12:21
<aep>
:D
12:21
not with that terminal prices :(
12:21* vagrantc will stop beating a deaf horse
12:21
<ogra_cmpc>
well, lets assume you cost $40/h for your boss ...
12:22
thats $120 he savews per day
12:22
<aep>
indeed. that's a good point :D
12:22
<vagrantc>
hell, we could assume $ 0.25 the way aep is talking
12:22
<ogra_cmpc>
since you can work on more important stuff during that time now
12:22
<vagrantc>
hardware is almost always cheaper than human labour
12:22
<ogra_cmpc>
yeah
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12:23
<aep>
hmm
12:23cdealeer has quit IRC
12:23
<vagrantc>
like i said earlier, do some math.
12:23
<aep>
i think for now i will just go for floppy boot on the desktop machines we have
12:23
<ogra_cmpc>
you really save in all areas ... apart from HW costs
12:23
<vagrantc>
using existing resources is an excellent idea.
12:23
<aep>
yeah
12:23
<ogra_cmpc>
yeah
12:24
<vagrantc>
aep: how old are these machines? many machines 2002+ have network boot built-in
12:24
<aep>
very different. i think two of them have+
12:25
<vagrantc>
you can also set up network boot from hard drive, instead of floppies
12:25
<aep>
i would like to reduce the noice in the office as a nice side effect ;)
12:25
that makes the graphics dudes happy
12:25
<vagrantc>
well, you can set the hard-disks to spin down when not in use
12:25
<aep>
nice idea!
12:25
<vagrantc>
sure beats having to support floppy disks.
12:25
<aep>
boot-> xdmcp -> spin down
12:26
<ogra_cmpc>
ltsp is beyond xdmcp ... we dont use it since two years anymore ;)
12:27
<aep>
:o
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12:27
<aep>
what's the modern standard?
12:27
<ogra_cmpc>
ssh
12:27
either with encrypted Xtransport or only with encrypted password exchange
12:28
<aep>
interesting
12:28
<ogra_cmpc>
the latter is pretty much teh same as xdmcp, but less insecure
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12:28* aep wonders how NX would perform on wlan
12:28
<vagrantc>
slightly more secure than xdmcp ...
12:28
<ogra_cmpc>
well, the critical parts at leats
12:29
*least
12:29
<moa->
Quick question: has anyone successfully got sound to work on a server with no sound card?
12:29* vagrantc never puts sound cards in the server
12:29
<moa->
make dummy sound cards?
12:29
I can't get esd to start up
12:30
<aep>
you start it on the client
12:30
<ogra_cmpc>
pulse doesnt care about soundcards
12:30
err, esd ?
12:30
<aep>
starting it on the server doesn't make sense, does it?
12:30
<ogra_cmpc>
right, esd will surely need hacking, thats why we dont use it anymore since some time
12:30
<moa->
What do you suggest ?
12:31
<ogra_cmpc>
no idea, i dropped esd to not have tio think about that :P
12:31* vagrantc thinks it would be a good time to find out what distro and ltsp version moa- is using
12:31
<aep>
starting esd on the client :p
12:31
<moa->
lol, gentoo and 4.2
12:31
<ogra_cmpc>
yeah, what distro/ltsp version is that
12:31
ah, well
12:34
<moa->
any suggestions on sound daemon?
12:35
<vagrantc>
!sound
12:35
<ltspbot>
vagrantc: "sound" is http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/Sound
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13:18
<outofrang1>
Is there separate docs for LTSP-5 or just the distribution specific docs? http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/Documentation doesn't seem to have docs for LTSP-5, just links to Ubuntu wiki, so I'm a bit confused about that.
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13:25
<vagrantc>
outofrang1: the documentation is a little more distro-specific now
13:25
outofrang1: so if you're using ubuntu, i'd recommend using the LTSP documentation from ubuntu
13:31
<outofrang1>
vagrantc: thanks. Do the LTSP-4 docs still apply mostly? Is that a good place to get a primer on LSTP, or is there so much different now that it would be misleading?
13:31
<vagrantc>
outofrang1: there is enough different that it's misleading
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13:32
<vagrantc>
if you know what the differences are, you ight be able to figure out what still applies and what not... the very basic premise is the same, but almost everything under the hood has changed.
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13:33
<outofrang1>
Ok, I read everything on the Ubuntu site -- so maybe just need to dive in and see what happens. ;)
13:33
<vagrantc>
yes, i'm a big fan of diving in
13:34
<rcy`>
any ideas on how to debug problems with autologin in edubuntu ltsp 5?
13:34ogra_cmpc has joined #ltsp
13:34
<rcy`>
i just get an X cursor on my thin clients after i setup LDM_USERNAME/PASSWORD in lts.conf
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13:39
<outofrang1>
One thing I'm not clear on is how to install mixed platform -- we have some old iMacs that I'd like to use, but IIRC I need to boot one powerpc client via CD to install the powerpc environment. Is that true?
13:44
<Blinny>
outofrang1: Edubuntu's docs have a good bit of info on them that applies.
13:44
<Guaraldo>
outofrang1: On ltsp5 you can install a chroot to powerpc in the same ltsp server. The way to netboot iMacs I realy don't know!
13:47
<vagrantc>
outofrang1: yes, basically you have to boot a machine of the appropriate architecture, build the LTSP5 environment, and move that to the server.
13:49
<Guaraldo>
vagrantc: ltsp-build-client has an option of the arquiteture...
13:49
<ogra_cmpc>
Guaraldo: it chroots during build ...
13:49
<Guaraldo>
vagrantc: does'nt?
13:49rcy` is now known as rcy
13:49
<ogra_cmpc>
that doesnt work without the right CPU
13:49
<vagrantc>
Guaraldo: it does, but it needs to be compatible with the running architecture
13:49
<Guaraldo>
ogra_cmpc: Oh!...
13:49
<vagrantc>
i.e. on an amd64 server, you can do --arch i386
13:50
<ogra_cmpc>
you can build i386 on amd64
13:50
but not ppc
13:50
not sure how the ppc qemu thing is nowadays
13:50
<Guaraldo>
ogra_cmpc: What a bad news...
13:50
<ogra_cmpc>
(or if that runs on x86)
13:51
<vagrantc>
haven't tried qemu with ppc in a couple months, but i've never really had it working
13:51
<ogra_cmpc>
Guaraldo: well, you would need to emulate the CPU somehow
13:51
Guaraldo: but in gutsy we use images, highvoltage expressed interest to build just packages that install teh images
13:51
<vagrantc>
at some point, we could build tarballs for the most popular architectures and you could try that.
13:52
ah yes, or squashfs images
13:52
<ogra_cmpc>
its only about 140M
13:52
ppc might be 200 though ... i havent tested it
13:52
<vagrantc>
ogra_cmpc: regarding unionfs in debian ... are you sure it is 2.0 ? all the packages i can find say 1.4*
13:53
<ogra_cmpc>
what version the module in the kernel ?
13:53
thats all that counts
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13:54
<vagrantc>
ogra_cmpc: how do i tell?
13:54
<ogra_cmpc>
(or do you have to handcompile it)
13:54
modinfo unionfs
13:55
it also tells the version in dmesg if you load it
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13:56
<vagrantc>
ogra_cmpc: seems like there aren;t modules in sid anymore ...
13:56
<ogra_cmpc>
switched to aufs ?
13:56
<vagrantc>
there's aufs-modules-*
13:56
<ogra_cmpc>
yeah
13:56
but its very young still
13:56
<scrapbunny>
can anyone help be get sound on thin clients from a server with no sound card?
13:56
<vagrantc>
and debian-live claims that unionfs doesn't work with sid
13:57
<ogra_cmpc>
2.0 surely now
13:57Blinny has quit IRC
13:57
<ogra_cmpc>
not
13:57
<vagrantc>
nudging people to use aufs
13:57
<ogra_cmpc>
we tried it for some weeks in ubuntu
13:57
and it broke in many intresting ways
13:57
<vagrantc>
oh well
13:58* vagrantc is more-or-less happy with nfs and tmpfs mounts
13:58
<lns>
Hey, do you guys know anything about the Koolu thin-client certification w/Gutsy?
13:58
<ogra_cmpc>
Koolu thin-client certification ???
13:58
<lns>
http://www.koolu.com/
14:00tiagovaz has joined #ltsp
14:00* ogra_cmpc wasnt contacted by anyone
14:01
<ogra_cmpc>
i guess thats done by the montreal office, but everyone is travelling atm, cant ask anybody
14:01
(we have our summit next week)
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14:02
<lns>
gotcha. =) Those things look pretty nice!
14:02
and a fair price
14:03
<outofrang1>
So for powerpc do I need to boot the first client with powerpc? Why I'm confused is I don't see where to download a live cd for powerpc for 7.10. Edubuntu is AMD and i386 only, as the "Get Ubuntu" page also doesn't show a powerpc download.
14:04
<scrapbunny>
they look cool :) I am trying to set up a LTSP lab with dell gx110's but i can't get the log in screen to come up
14:04
and my server has no sound card so I am not sure I can have sound
14:04
<lns>
scrapbunny, you don't need a sound card in the server to have sound on the clients
14:05
<scrapbunny>
Ins- can you point me to how to set up the sound? the only stuff I can find is for ubuntu 6
14:05moa- has quit IRC
14:06
<sbalneav>
scrapbunny: What linux distro are you using, with what version of ltsp?
14:06
<scrapbunny>
edubuntu 7.10 with the latest ltsp,
14:08
at this point I have a fresh install on the server and I can PXE boot and log in on a GX240 but have no sound. on the gx110 I get the edubuntu boot screen but then the screen goes blank
14:09
<vagrantc>
probably the sound card on your thin clients isn't auto-detected
14:09
<ogra_cmpc>
outofrang1: http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/ports/releases/gutsy/release/
14:09
<outofrang1>
ogra_cmpc: Thanks!
14:10
<scrapbunny>
vagrantc- where can I go to check? sorry I am still new to thin clients and ubuntu
14:11
<ogra_cmpc>
scrapbunny: in gutsy everything is set up automatic, if pulseaudio is installed in teh client environment (which is the case by default), sound will be started for the ltsp parts of things
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14:14
<scrapbunny>
I must not have completed the install then because pulseaudio is not installed
14:14alienBOB has left #ltsp
14:14
<ogra_cmpc>
scrapbunny: create a file /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/lts.conf
14:15
put in this content: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/42147/
14:15
if you boot a client you will then have a shell on the second console for debugging
14:16
<scrapbunny>
thank you sooo much. I will try to make sure everything is installed and create that file. hopefully I can come back with good news :)
14:16
<cliebow_>
ogra_cmpc:anyone netbooted an intel mac yet?
14:17
<ogra_cmpc>
cliebow_: give me one and i'll try :)
14:17
<cliebow_>
id love to...i captured dhcp response today..
14:17
it tries to PXE boot
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14:18
<ogra_cmpc>
well, then iot should be possible
14:18
<cliebow_>
tftp fails for me..starts then fails..i have it coming up..
14:18
The laptop that is
14:20
the ppc macs are fighting me tooth and nail as well nfs-wise
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14:23
<cliebow_>
Ragnar!!!!!!!!!!
14:23
<laprag_>
hey chuck
14:23
<cliebow_>
you in the States?
14:23
<laprag_>
no, i'm coming next weekend :)
14:24
<cliebow_>
bts???
14:24
<laprag_>
fot BTS
14:24
yes
14:24
<cliebow_>
ahghahh!
14:24
<laprag_>
don't want to miss that :)
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14:26
<Guaraldo>
scrapbunny: LTSP4.2 or 5?
14:26
scrapbunny: :-D
14:27
Sory, I started answering thing answered... :-D
14:27Topslakr has joined #ltsp
14:27
<cliebow_>
ogra_cmpc, i see read request for /ltsp/pxelinux.0 then an option acknowledgement packet with blocksize 512 and tsize 13552..then an error packet..option negotiation failed
14:28
<Guaraldo>
/ltsp/pxelinux.0??? wouldn't it be /ltsp/i386/pxelinux.0 ???
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14:43* highvoltage catches up
14:43
<highvoltage>
ogra_cmpc: I've been thinking about those images, do you think the appropriate place to store them would be on ltsp.org?
14:44
<ogra_cmpc>
would make sense
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15:04
<cliebow_>
Guaraldo, yeah probably..
15:05
<Guaraldo>
:-D
15:06
<jammcq>
q
15:06
q
15:06
exit
15:06
<sbalneav>
That's odd.
15:07
<cliebow_>
who??? me??
15:07
<sbalneav>
cliebow_: jammcq seems to be having trouble, can you type /quit?
15:07
<jammcq>
because some moron is tring to close Jam's session
15:07
<cliebow_>
heh
15:07
<sbalneav>
Waht, that won't work?
15:07cliebow_ has quit IRC
15:07
<sbalneav>
:)
15:07
BWAHAHAHAA
15:07
<jammcq>
would not be jam
15:07jammcq has quit IRC
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15:08
<sbalneav>
LOL
15:08
<cliebow__>
works here...
15:08
<sbalneav>
I didn't think you'd actually do it :)
15:08
<cliebow__>
of course..i always foller directiobns
15:09
<sbalneav>
Oh, man. THAT'll get you into trouble.
15:09
<cliebow__>
i see you got jammcq too
15:09
or maybe he MEANT to
15:09
<sbalneav>
Just ask them fellas at Nuremburg
15:09
<cliebow__>
yep
15:09
or Hiroshima
15:09
My dad was there just sfter the bomb
15:10
<sbalneav>
No kiddin.
15:10
My dad was in the reserve in the 50's. Staff seargent in the Nuclear Decontamination Squad.
15:11
<cliebow__>
oh yeah..i have pictures of a bridge where some poor bastard was standing when the thing went off..his shadow is on the pavement
15:11
<sbalneav>
Freaky. And sad.
15:11
brb
15:12
<cliebow__>
does "option negotiation failed" ring any bells for you? could block size be a problem in tftp for intel mac?
15:13
heck..gotta book it...
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15:23
<slidesinger>
I've read a bit about chroot jailing for apache/bind/etc. Is this a good idea for a generic lamp server? (never read about it for a lamp box)
15:29
(embarrased) That's the problem with so many open windows, every so often you grab the wrong one.
15:30Q-FUNK has joined #ltsp
15:37
<aep>
hm does that igel smartcard work with ltsp?
15:37sepski has quit IRC
15:38
<aep>
i can't image what it actually technicaly does.
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16:13
<lns>
Can anyone point me to some information on how to control printer access (through Gnome) to certain users/groups?
16:13
ahh shit nevermind =p
16:13
i <3 the new printer cp =)
16:15
how about groups, though? I have a teacher who really wants to give 'occasional' printer access to the color laser in their room, but give permenant access to the teachers
16:15
it'd be hard to assign by user every time
16:22
<sbalneav>
Don't know if there's a ui for it
16:22
but I think AuthClass Group in cupsd.conf might work, GIYF
16:23
http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/serverguide/C/ch04s09.html
16:23
<lns>
oh nice, ok thx sbalneav
16:23
<sbalneav>
Seems to indicate that might work
16:23
<lns>
GIYF = ?
16:24
<sbalneav>
Google Is Your Friend
16:24
<lns>
lol
16:24
thanks man
16:24
<sbalneav>
np
16:30K_O-Gnom has quit IRC
16:33
<vagrantc>
otavio: available for an LTSP upload tomorrow?
16:33
<otavio>
vagrantc: sure
16:33
vagrantc: np
16:33
<vagrantc>
otavio: just waiting for a couple more translations, otherwise everything seems ready
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16:35* moa_ is going bald trying to figure out sound on thin clients
16:36
<scrapbunny>
moa- i am too! this is a lot harder than i thought it would be
16:36
<vagrantc>
almost always "just works" for me
16:37
<moa_>
That's what every thing I read says
16:37
<sutula>
vagrantc: I'm out of sync...I just (finally) got your last etch-backport working, and now you have a newer version :)
16:37
<vagrantc>
if you have older cards that aren't autodetected, then you have to manually specify the modules
16:37
sutula: :)
16:37
sutula: only minor changes in the newer version
16:37
<moa_>
if I don't specify a module, it should auto detect right?
16:38
<vagrantc>
moa_: yes
16:38
<moa_>
I've been using the one that came with the thin client documentation, but I'll try the auto detect. I'm honestly out of options.
16:38
<sutula>
vagrantc: X seemed to no longer autodetect my monitors correctly...had to override the display size, but the other stuff is working
16:38
<vagrantc>
sutula: haven't been able to figure out why the background on LDM doesn't display on etch
16:39
sutula: yeah, X related stuff is harder to backport- the newer versions rely on X.org 7.2 which handles it's own configuration much better.
16:39
<scrapbunny>
where do I go to manually config the sound?
16:39
<moa_>
lts.conf
16:40
<sutula>
vagrantc: I expected it would be something like that so didn't bother with bug reports
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16:44
<vagrantc>
sutula: so can i close those two bugs? :)
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16:45
<sutula>
vagrantc: Sure, go ahead. With the chroot I built this AM I'm still seeing TZ not set right, but if you're not seeing it on other systems, it's probably something borked on my Etch server.
16:46
vagrantc: The TZ doesn't matter that much to the client's OS anyway
16:46
<vagrantc>
sutula: i haven't really verified the time zone stuff
16:46
sutula: worth fixing all the same
16:47
<sutula>
vagrantc: Well, if you do a new Etch install, then ltsp-server, check to see if the TZ value is right in the chroot (or login to a client)
16:48
<vagrantc>
i've been experiencing a similar issue with xen installs, actually ...
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16:50
<sutula>
vagrantc: I thought it just wasn't propagated to the chroot, but it's more subtle than that...my client's OS's do seem to have the right setting...hmmm
16:51
<vagrantc>
sutula: chroot /opt/ltsp/i386 dpkg-reconfigure tzdata
16:51
sutula: see if that fixes it
16:51
<sutula>
vagrantc: What symptoms do you see in xen?
16:51
<vagrantc>
timezone is always set to UTC, even if /etc/timezone is set to something else
16:51
reconfiguring tzdata seems to fix it
16:52
<sutula>
vagrantc: That's what I saw when I first reported the bug
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16:54
<sutula>
vagrantc: So I'm seeing exactly that behavior right now...I wonder whether it has to do with doing something out of order, like when the chroot is built, it needed the TZ value earlier in the process.
16:56* vagrantc checks when it runs
16:57
<vagrantc>
sutula: ah, it happens during the finalization phase, but debootstrap is installed much earlier
16:57
er, debootstrap installs tzdata much earlier
16:58* sutula wonders what else might have similar problems
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17:00
<vagrantc>
i know locales works
17:04
<moa_>
The auto detect, detects the correct card. But no sound works. It makes no sense.
17:05
<vagrantc>
moa_: echo $ESPEAKER ; echo $PULSE_SERVER
17:06
moa_: logged in from the thin client
17:06
<moa_>
i checked the env and neither one was set
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17:08
<vagrantc>
well, that'll cause your problem
17:08
well, at least make it impossible to use
17:08
<moa_>
Those should get set automatically, correct?
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17:11
<moa_>
Got any ideas of places to check to see where it's failing at?
17:11
<sutula>
moa_: Which Linux distribution is the server running?
17:12
<moa_>
gentoo
17:12
<sutula>
moa_: Also, what version of ltsp?
17:12
<moa_>
4.2
17:13
<sutula>
moa_: Others know better than I, but sound support was different then...I have it working under 5.x
17:13* sutula can't help moa_ with 4.x sound
17:14* moa_ bangs head against wall
17:14
<moa_>
I've been debating upgrading
17:14
<sutula>
moa_: From a support standpoint, it'd certainly be easier...either that or buy a helmet :)
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17:15
<moa_>
Well, since it's a production server, and my techs work 24/7. Any ideas on seamless upgrade?
17:15
side by side installation possible?
17:16
<vagrantc>
sutula: well, copying the file earlier just causes /etc/timezone to get overwritten
17:18
<sutula>
vagrantc: I think you need to preseed the value, but I'm ignorant about exactly how it would be done
17:18
<vagrantc>
hard to preseed before any packages are installed
17:19
<sutula>
vagrantc: Yeah...how to folks do it that do unattended installs? Must be the same issue.
17:19
<vagrantc>
the set it up in debian-installer
17:20
the simple workaround, i think, is to dpkg-reconfigure tzdata
17:20
<sutula>
vagrantc: Maybe someone on OFTC/#debian-devel could help
17:20
vagrantc: Your last suggestion sounds OK, except...
17:20
<vagrantc>
?
17:21
<sutula>
...one of the symptoms I see is that packages complain that certain file times are set in the future
17:21
I'm guessing that happens because the install is done with a bogus TZ value
17:22
I think that cures itself in (UTC - TZ) hours, so it's more an annoyance
17:22
For half the world (positive TZ values), it never shows up at all :)
17:23
moa_: Again, others are more expert, but I've managed to do quick switchovers on a live system by saving /opt/ltsp as /opt/ltsp-old, and then going back to it if I have trouble. But I wouldn't expect that to work between ltsp 4 and 5.
17:24
Certainly not seamless, though...I'd think you'd need a second server for that
17:25
<moa_>
I figured as much. I've got the backup I could use.
17:25
<sutula>
moa_: Can you bring ltsp 5 up on a different machine, then do a copy to the real server when it's working right?
17:26
<moa_>
I'm going to go run all this by the boss.
17:26
be back in a few.
17:26
Thanks for all your help
17:31
<vagrantc>
sutula: ok, so adding dpkg-reconfigure tzdata after copying /etc/timezone into the chroot seems to work fine.
17:33
<sutula>
vagrantc: OK
17:33
vagrantc: I'll ask locally...I know an install expert, to see if he knows of a different approach
17:34
...but it sounds like you have at least a 90% solution
17:34
<vagrantc>
feels more like a workaround, but sure.
17:34
<sutula>
my "expert" is sick...out of the office until early next week, but I'll make a not to ask
17:34
s/not/note/
17:36
<vagrantc>
sutula: the other issue was one of the keyboard setting things, but i think that is fixed also
17:37
sutula: did you end up using the xdebconfigurator stuff for the backport ?
17:37
sutula: or did you use the new X configuration?
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17:41
<sutula>
vagrantc: I used whatever happens "stock out of the box"...I removed my old lts.conf file
17:42
5.0.31debian2~0.etch.1
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17:42* sutula isn't sure he's answering vagrantc's question
17:44
<vagrantc>
sutula: on some machines, i had to switch back to the same sort of X configuration used in 5.0.8debian3 and earlier
17:47
<sutula>
vagrantc: I guess I'm using the newer stuff then
17:47
<vagrantc>
cool
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17:51
<sutula>
vagrantc: Back to the TZ, had some discussion with some others (non-experts). Pointed me to http://www.debian.org/releases/etch/example-preseed.txt
17:51
That doesn't help, does it?
17:51* sutula hasn't studied d-i
17:53
<sutula>
One of the peanut gallery wondered whether it was as simple as exporting $TZ set to a reasonable value in the env the installer runs in, but /me doubts it's that easy
17:54
<vagrantc>
sutula: we're not using d-i at all, no.
17:55
might be worth trying $TZ
17:56
<moa_>
Well, I appreciate the help. You guys have gotten me out of plenty of predicaments, next step to fix sound: upgrade :)
17:56
<sutula>
vagrantc: If that doesn't work, what do you use, in a nutshell?
17:57* sutula could look at the code in ltsp-build-client but is too busy with other stuff right now
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18:00
<vagrantc>
anybody ever messed with micros eclipse POS systems?
18:00moa_ has left #ltsp
18:00
<vagrantc>
i've got a bunch here at freegeek
18:01
LTSP boots, but not touchscreen
18:05cliebow___ has joined #ltsp
18:07* sutula looks on ebay to find out what that is...pricey!
18:15* vagrantc suspects overpriced
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18:15
<janet>
is there a way to set up a usb printer locally on a client?
18:17
anyone on?
18:20
<vagrantc>
yes, there is a way, i don't know off the top of my head, and need to go shortly
18:20
<janet>
sad
18:20
ok thanks vagrantc i'm still googling
18:21
<vagrantc>
if using ubuntu or debian, search for "jetpipe"
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19:15
<mwright1>
Hi just wandering if anyone can help me with muekow LTSP for ubuntu?
19:15
specifically whether the xen kernel in ubuntu supports all the LTSP stuff
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19:37
<mwright1>
ping
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20:01Lumiere is now known as Lumiere|DCUnited
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20:47
<mwright1>
ping anyone here
20:47
jammcq?
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21:03
<mwright1>
anyone know how to install ubuntu inside a xen instance and get sound
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21:36
<John_Titor>
you know where can i find some history info bout ltsp
21:50
<mwright1>
umm what sort of history
21:50
I'd like to know the future rather than the history
21:50
I can probably help you with the history though
21:50
a little bit
22:01
<John_Titor>
i mean the starts
22:02
the reason to develop it
22:02
things like thta
22:03
<mwright1>
it was jammcq.. I think he may have wanted to sell thinstations or he may have thought of that after the fact
22:04
the motivation is to have low cost computing for schools and things I think
22:04
and to save computer hardware from land fill
22:04
for instance we have a top notch HP server, but all our workstations are pentium 200 266s
22:04
they would otherwise be thrown in the bin
22:05
<John_Titor>
thx!
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22:20
<sbalneav>
Evening all
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22:38
<mwright1>
sbalneav: good evening
22:38
I have a question for you regarding Xen and Ubuntu gutsy
22:38
can I boot LTSP server inside a xen instance, and then connect my terminals to its IP address and will I get all the muekow sound etc?
22:39
<sbalneav>
I know absolutely nothing about any virtualization technology
22:39
<mwright1>
the xen Dom0 (underlying hardware OS is running centos 5 (xen 3.x) and the ubuntu will be running a -xen kernel (xen3.0_
22:39
well the OS just boots as normal, obviously there is a small performance and resources hit
22:39
<sbalneav>
I always run my linuxes on the bare metal.
22:39
<mwright1>
the main part of the question is in regards to the kernel extensions that enable LTSP sound on v5
22:40
there is some huge advantage of virtualising to do with upgrades, redundancy, backups testing, we have a 16gb ram HP Dl385 and it runs very nicely
22:40
in any case we are currently running LTSP 4.2 inside a Fedora Xen instance on top of Centos 5 however we have no sound
22:41
So I must deliver sound to my clients, and am wandering whether creating another xen instance running ubuntu gutsy, will work for the sound modules (I know it will work for everything else)
22:41
just depends how the ubuntu sound stuff works
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22:41
<mwright1>
The clients are bare metal
22:41
it's the server I'm talking about
22:41
<sbalneav>
I know absolutely nothing about any virtualization technology
22:42
So I don't know.
22:42
<mwright1>
currently the /opt/ltsp terminal stuff is directly on the bare metal (running centos5) but the OS is on the fedora instance
22:42
yes but you know lots about LTSP, I know nothing about LTSP 5 sound
22:42
the people who integrated LTSP into ubuntu would know
22:43
does LTSP 5 on ubuntu gutsy support x86_64?
22:43
<sbalneav>
Which, 64 bit clients?
22:43
Yes.
22:43
<mwright1>
no the clients are 32bit, but 64bit server?
22:43
<sbalneav>
That works as well.
22:43
<mwright1>
I'm just wandering what hapens if the clients are 32bit and the server is 64bit ubuntu
22:44
<sbalneav>
It works just fine.
22:44
<mwright1>
the clients are p200 server is dual core amd opteron 64
22:44
<sbalneav>
Lots of people run it like that.
22:44
<mwright1>
ok great. so where do you think I can ask about the ltsp sound implementation, and hhow that involves the kernel?
22:44
so to see whether the support is including in the packaged official ubuntu xen kernels
22:44
<sbalneav>
I know how the sound works.
22:45
I just have no idea if it works under Xen or not.
22:45
<mwright1>
ok so is it a kernel module that works with all kernels
22:45
<sbalneav>
I know lots of people can't seem to install LTSP under xen.
22:45
It's an alsa driver
22:45
<mwright1>
that might be cause they don't know what htey're doing
22:45
you have to seperate the boot stuff and put it on the bare metal
22:46
<sbalneav>
Or, maybe it doesn't work.
22:46
<mwright1>
that's the main issue with xen, cause of the way dhcp works
22:46
we need to get it working, I will get my guys onto it, but it sounds like it's untested?
22:46
or are there people who claim to have it working?
22:46
<sbalneav>
Utterly untested.
22:47
<mwright1>
no reports as yet as to anyone getting it working.
22:47
<sbalneav>
I don't know. Usually, whenever someone starts talking about Virtualization, I tune out, as it's not something I'm interested in.
22:47
<mwright1>
I don't understand why you are not interested
22:47
for instance it is a solution to climate change, better utilisation of resources
22:48
it's just like LTSP.. it saves the environment
22:48
<sbalneav>
No it's not.
22:48
How?
22:48
<mwright1>
and cost, which is greater accessibility
22:48
cause you can allocate multiple machines on 1 host instead of buying more hosts and use lesss real time power and less embodied energy
22:48
total lifecycle cost
22:48Amaranth has quit IRC
22:48
<mwright1>
ie we have a mta with mailing lists in xen, ltsp in xen, database server in xen
22:49
it's also just like chrooting only better. IO is better between boxes
22:49
<sbalneav>
Why would you buy multiple hosts, if you've got enough power to run it all on 1 box?
22:49
<mwright1>
anyway have to disappear.. I will get to the bttom of htis
22:49
because you don't want to run everything inside the same OS cause you might have conflicts, or have restraints on rebootin, or some solutions may be better suited to other flavours of linux
22:50
<sbalneav>
Last time I checked, a database server, mail server, mailing list server can all run under one box without xen, so why would I need to partition it up into a lot of virtual hosts to get the same thing?
22:50
<mwright1>
so this is all installed on one physical box booting multiple xen instances
22:50* sbalneav shrugs
22:50
<mwright1>
cause for desktop you want to upgrade every 6 months
22:50
<sbalneav>
I don't need it.
22:50
<mwright1>
but for database server you don't want to go through the hassle of postgresql upgrades, same for web server etc
22:50
we have a big environment and we don't want to upgrade everything all at once, so Xen solves our problem, this is in production
22:51
<sbalneav>
I run production too.
22:51
<mwright1>
we can leave our old LTSP running and set our new one up and migrate everyone 1 at a time between the two, all on the same physical hardware
22:51
<sbalneav>
3 databases, 165 users across a 1000 kilometer area.
22:51
<mwright1>
you would be a lot more competent at managing this than our team, however we may be more representativbe of the regular population
22:51
<sbalneav>
If it works for you, great.
22:51
<mwright1>
I'm just mentioning to you because you are a developer
22:51
<sbalneav>
I don't need it.
22:52
<mwright1>
anwyay have to run to a customer cheers and thanks :)
22:52
<sbalneav>
np
22:52
<mwright1>
I wasn't trying to force it on you either.
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