IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 7 March 2010   (all times are UTC)

00:00
<laron>
Are the same steps taken to set up an XUbuntu LTSP server as setting up a straight Ubuntu LTSP server?
00:00
also, are there any benefits to setting up an xubuntu ltsp server over a straight ubuntu ltsp server?
00:02
<alkisg>
I don't think so :)
00:02
<laron>
you dont think there are any advantages?
00:02
<alkisg>
Yup
00:02
<laron>
ok
00:02
<alkisg>
Also, gnome is the most tested one, so it's more bug-free for ltsp
00:02
<laron>
thanks
00:02
ok
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00:49
<johnny>
alkisg, i hope you report the bug for palimpest
00:49
i'm sure nbd is something easy to overlook
00:49
altho really.. i guess you could use palimpest to build images :)
00:49
<alkisg>
johnny: I didn't... I don't use palimpset anyway, so...
00:50
<johnny>
well.. didn't you see that thing that allowed you to use it on remote servers?
00:51
<alkisg>
Erm, nope, I was trying to see what palimpset was all about, but I quickly lost interest. What does it do on remote servers?
00:51
<johnny>
uhmm.. the same thing it does for local ones..
00:52
allow you to create partitions.. format disks.. etc..
00:52
and lvm stuff in the next version..
00:52
<alkisg>
so... display a lot of errors etc? :D
00:52
<johnny>
hmm?
00:52
well.. i never ran it on a system that used nbd before..
00:52
<alkisg>
I tried to do 2-3 "normal" stuff, and all I got was errors
00:52
...so I thought it'd give it a few years to grow up before trying it again :D
00:53
<johnny>
i used it to format my external hard drive
00:53
worked like a champ
00:53
and.. will be testing it with lvm as soon as i get f13 alpha
00:53
<alkisg>
Why are they creating new tools instead of promoting existing and tested ones, like gparted?
00:53
<johnny>
oh.. i also used it to change my encypted partition password with dm-crypt stuff
00:54
because.. of how it fits into the system
00:54
gparted does too much
00:54
palimpest is just a frontend..
00:54
<alkisg>
isn't gparted also a frontend to libparted?
00:54
<johnny>
sure..
00:54
but.. does libparted communicate over dbus?
00:55
<alkisg>
I surely hope *not* :)
00:55
<johnny>
can you run gparted on a remote machine without X?
00:55
<alkisg>
Not all low level libraries should be dbus aware
00:55
One can just make dbus wrappers around them...
00:55
<johnny>
perhaps palimpest talks to parted..
00:56
i know hal used to have an optional dep on parted
00:56
before they split that crap out
00:56
<alkisg>
It doesn't depend on libparted, though...
00:57
<johnny>
as i said.. you can use it on a remote system
00:57
do you have anything that deps on parted?
00:58
i can't find the post.. davidz's blog is down.. db connection error
00:58
anyways.. he tunneled dbus over ssh
00:58
and was able to use palimpest to manage his remote disks
00:59
hmm.. interesting..
00:59
new -> Software raid array
00:59
also.. palimpest .. (i can never remember how to spell it) talks smart
00:59
unlike gparted
01:00
<alkisg>
Yes, and I have 2 out of my 3 laptops complain about smart errors, while there is none :)
01:00
<johnny>
on which os was that?
01:00
<alkisg>
karmic & lucid
01:00
<johnny>
that bug was fixed for me shortly for f12
01:00
suprised it's still there in lucid
01:01
i can understand in karmic
01:01
i remember that bug
01:01
<alkisg>
Hmmm I'll test better for that
01:01
<johnny>
the bug has gone away since some time
01:02* alkisg also doesn't like the palimpsest interface... too chaotic..
01:02
<alkisg>
I think it also doesn't fix a standard 1024x768 screen
01:02
*fit
01:04
Hmm copyright redhat, eh? So they'll spend some resources on its development... hm...
01:04
<johnny>
davidz works for redhat..
01:04
so yes
01:04
hmm.. fit in which direction alkisg ?
01:04
<alkisg>
vertically
01:05
<johnny>
hmm..
01:05
<alkisg>
If I select a harddisk, it barely fits
01:05
<johnny>
i have 1680x1050
01:05
<alkisg>
So in a smaller resolution, it wouldn't...
01:05* alkisg tests 1024x768...
01:05
<johnny>
what version do you have?
01:05
what does it say in About ?
01:06
mine only changes size horizontally when i select a drive
01:06
and less than half the screen
01:06
so.. it would be fine on 1024x768..
01:06
not sure about netbooks..
01:06
guess i'll see
01:07
mine says 2.28.1
01:07
<alkisg>
It does fit on 1024x768, but not on 1024x600
01:08
<johnny>
so what version do you have?
01:08
<alkisg>
2.29.90-2
01:08
<johnny>
ah.. it doesn't seem chaotic in 2.28.1
01:08
i feel like the earlier one.. before settling on gnome versioning was pretty bad
01:08
i haven't seen a 2.29 one yet tho
01:09
<alkisg>
I think it has too much data on one page
01:09
Without even providing a scrollbar..
01:09
<johnny>
hmm.. i even have a scroll bar
01:09
<alkisg>
In the right side?
01:09
Not in the left side where the disks are...
01:10
<johnny>
you need a scroll bar? at which res?
01:10
<alkisg>
1024x600
01:10
<johnny>
ah yes..he should be bugged to fix it for netbooks
01:10
i wonder if such a bug is already filed
01:11
<alkisg>
I work on 1280x800, but I was just trying to see if it gets a scrollbar for lower resolutions
01:11
<johnny>
it wouldn't be the first app that doesn't do the right thing on netbooks..
01:11
f-spot redid their config dialog for netbooks only during the last cycle iirc
01:11
<alkisg>
Yeah gnome doesn't scale well for small screens
01:12
<johnny>
hopefully gnome-shell scales better in general
01:12
alkisg, so.. at least it's likely free drivers for nvidia will support gnome-shell in the near future
01:12
<alkisg>
Anyway... I'm looking to get a "listener" app inside the ltsp users sessions, so that I can send commands to the students...
01:12
<johnny>
so.. lucid +1 should have 3d with open drivers for nvidia ..
01:13
send commands?
01:13
what kinda commands?
01:13
<alkisg>
Something like what italc does
01:13
<johnny>
you mean like click on stuff for them/
01:13
<alkisg>
E.g. "open a video" "clear firefox cache" etc
01:13
<johnny>
?
01:13
<alkisg>
shell commands
01:13
But with access to $DISPLAY, to gconf etc
01:14
<johnny>
hmm... so you would do it without ssh?
01:14
why not just do it with ssh?
01:14
<alkisg>
Yeah, I think that a listener would be better
01:14
I.e. each user loggin on, would contact the server, instead of vice-versa
01:15
I could ssh to a fat client and send some commands as the active user, but I'd need to get into hoops to get the $DISPLAY and the dbus address etc
01:15
Also, reverse connections would make it easier to see which users are logged on, on which pc etc
01:15
<johnny>
makes me think of this ..
01:15
http://people.redhat.com/nalin/oddjob/oddjob.html
01:16
altho.. your defintion is privileged is a bit different in that case..
01:16
<alkisg>
dbus over ssh? that'd be twice as hard...
01:17
<johnny>
well.. we did have that p2p dbus thing the other day..
01:17
and i as i said.. davidz showed how to do dbus over ssh in that post..
01:17
<alkisg>
That would make it unnecessarily complicated for my needs
01:17
I'd have to solve 3 problems instead of 1...
01:18
What I'm thinking of is utilizing the ssh connection that the users already have
01:18
<johnny>
ah.. google cache..
01:18
http://74.125.113.132/search?q=cache:-l-VNGpISHwJ:blog.fubar.dk/%3Fp%3D108+site:fubar.dk+108&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us
01:19
<alkisg>
I.e., they'd run a program, listen to a unix socket or a pipe or something, and I'd give them commands over that. This way the traffic would encrypted, and when the session finishes, the connection would also close
01:20
<johnny>
sure.. you can go back down the socket anyways right?
01:21
hmm.. incron..
01:21
<alkisg>
The easiest way to do it would be with mkfifo on the user's home dir, but it doesn't work with sshfs
01:21
so it won't work for localapps users or fat client users...
01:22
Right, I've looked for inotify, but I don't think it works over sshfs as well
01:23
So I'm thinking about some cool redirection... ssh -o controlsocket command | some local command...
01:24
...and it would also be nice if that was part of the session, so that the student's couldn't kill it without killing the session
01:40
Hmmm LOCALDEV should be false for fat clients...
02:05
In /usr/share/polkit-1/actions/org.freedesktop.udisks.policy, how can I specify that I want to allow all users in the fuse group to be able to mount disks without getting an authentication prompt?
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02:20
<alkisg>
Uhmmm the local consolekit session isn't considered ACTIVE, so it failes in PK authorizations...
02:21
How can we tell CK that the local user sessions are active?
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06:37
<martijn>
need some help getting hp t5520 thin client to work. laptop as client is ok. t5520 does boot, show login screen, login goes fine, but then after some time login screen shows up again... anyone?
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08:21
<martijn>
need some help getting hp t5520 thin client to work. laptop as client is ok. t5520 does boot, show login screen, login goes fine, but then after some time login screen shows up again... anyone?
08:21
<alkisg>
distro/version?
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08:23
<martijn>
ubuntu 9.10
08:24
<alkisg>
So you see ldm, enter a username/password, and after that you see "server did not respond, restarting"?
08:26
<martijn>
server seems to respond ok to username/password, but after 20 seconds it seems to hang and ldm shows up again, no ¨server did not respond...¨
08:27
<ogra_cmpc>
did you check ~/.xsession-errors ?
08:30* alkisg loves the console kit documentation... http://www.freedesktop.org/software/ConsoleKit/doc/ConsoleKit.html#id312255
08:30
<alkisg>
Defining the Problem: To be written.
08:31
<ogra_cmpc>
your chance to submit upstream documentation !!
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08:33
<alkisg>
ogra_cmpc: do you know if all (ltsp-related) distros use CK? I don't think LTSP uses CK now to launch the session, so PK doesn't work... could I try to put that in, i.e. do all ltsp-supported distros have ck-launch-session?
08:34
<ogra_cmpc>
no
08:34
ssh uses CK
08:34
<alkisg>
Yes, but localapps & fat clients do not (on the thin client)
08:34
<ogra_cmpc>
you dont need to do anything for CK integration, its integrated since hardy
08:34
so fix the policies
08:35
<martijn>
restarted the client, new login, no errors logged in ~/.xsession-errors
08:35
<alkisg>
ogra_cmpc: Hmmm... now, ck-list-sessions says that the local user is not ACTIVE. Should I fix the policies for inactive users, or should I change LTSP to use ck-launch-session, when that is available?
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08:36
<ogra_cmpc>
alkisg, you should never use ck-launch-session at all
08:36
<alkisg>
Why?
08:36
<ogra_cmpc>
because else you double register
08:37
ssh already registered your session
08:37
<alkisg>
martijn: can you try sudo ltsp-update-sshkeys and sudo ltsp-update-image, to get that possibility out of the way?
08:37
ogra_cmpc: ssh registers the session on the server, not on the client
08:37
So any localapps there do not properly work
08:37
<ogra_cmpc>
oh
08:37
<alkisg>
*on the client*
08:37
<ogra_cmpc>
you should have said that in the beginning :)
08:37
<alkisg>
(04:35:16 μμ) alkisg: Yes, but localapps & fat clients do not (on the thin client)
08:37
<ogra_cmpc>
well, the prob here is once again dbus :)
08:38
<alkisg>
ogra_cmpc: i.e. instead of running su - ldm_session or whatever, to run su - ck-launch-session ldm_session whatever...
08:38
<ogra_cmpc>
if you get proper dbus communication going your session will be properly registered on both sides
08:38
everything else is a hack
08:39
<alkisg>
For fat clients, I don't need two bus sessions
08:39
I only work locally, on the client
08:39
But still the CK complains that the users is not active
08:39
<ogra_cmpc>
which should just work
08:39
<alkisg>
Because we don't call ck-launch-session
08:39
<ogra_cmpc>
since gdm cares for the CK registering
08:39
<alkisg>
But we don't use gdm :)
08:39
<ogra_cmpc>
ck-launch-session is an evil hack for last resorts
08:40
<alkisg>
OK, should we call dbus opensession instead?
08:40
<ogra_cmpc>
find out why gdm doesnt work right in the fat client setup
08:40
<alkisg>
because we don't use gdm :)
08:40
We still use ldm on the fat clients
08:40
<ogra_cmpc>
and fix dbus for the localapp case
08:40
ugh
08:40
why ?
08:40
<alkisg>
To get authenticated on the server
08:40
<ogra_cmpc>
hmm, that sounds like broken design
08:41
<alkisg>
How would we get authenticated with gdm? We don't have any local users...
08:42
<ogra_cmpc>
no idea, how did nubae do it ?
08:42
<alkisg>
He copied the whole passwd & shadow etc on the client
08:42
<nubae_>
plus some other stuff yeah
08:42
<ogra_cmpc>
well, all these solutions sound like gross hacks
08:42
<nubae_>
like cleaning, sorting, etc
08:43
<ogra_cmpc>
ldm simply isnt designed for running local sessions
08:43
<alkisg>
Sure, a libpam_sshauth would make it a lot cleaner
08:43
<ogra_cmpc>
i personally wouldnt bloat it with such CK hacks but try to fix gdm
08:43
afaik gdm has a ssh backend
08:43
<alkisg>
But for now, a consolekit session should be started locally, and it isn't. So either a script or ldm should do that..
08:43
<ogra_cmpc>
at least it used to
08:44
<nubae_>
why cant we use the ssh tunnel for authentication?
08:44
<ogra_cmpc>
because you need to authenticate that tunnel first
08:44
*before* the DM is up
08:44
<nubae_>
ah right gotcha
08:45
<ogra_cmpc>
ther is no safe way to do that
08:46
<martijn>
alkisg: tried sudo ltsp-update-sshkeys and sudo ltsp-update-image... did not help...
08:47
<alkisg>
martijn: ok, i've also seen the problem that you're describing with some graphics cards & compiz. Did that client work before?
08:49
Hmmm so I was thinking of calling this one for fat clients: http://www.freedesktop.org/software/ConsoleKit/doc/ConsoleKit.html#Manager.OpenSession
08:49
<martijn>
alkisg: just bought it 2nd hand, it works with MS, I do not know if it worked with ltsp, never tested i guess, can i disable compiz?
08:50
<alkisg>
!compiz
08:50
<ltspbot`>
alkisg: "compiz" :: if compiz is giving you problems, one way to disable it for all users is: sudo gconftool-2 --direct --config-source xml:readwrite:/etc/gconf/gconf.xml.mandatory --type string --set /desktop/gnome/session/required_components/windowmanager metacity
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08:57
<martijn>
alkisg/ltspbot: that helped, thanks!!! can I disable compiz permanent in some configuration file?
08:57
<alkisg>
martijn: that was permanent
08:57
So you should be ok.
08:58
<martijn>
ok, thanks a lot!
08:58
<alkisg>
You're welcome
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09:02
<alkisg>
Ah, there's already code that calls ck-launch-session in /etc/X11/Xsession.d/90consolekit
09:16
<ogra_cmpc>
right
09:16
if you implement it somewhere else you will always end up with duplicated session entries
09:16
if the CK credentials arent right, fix the PK setup
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09:46
<alkisg>
Hmm the problem seems to be x11-display-device, it's null
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11:30
<alkisg>
In /opt/ltsp/i386/usr/share/ltsp/screen.d/shell we're calling "bash -login" instead of "login -f root", which leaves $HOME and $USER undefined, and so /etc/profile.d/speechd-user-port.sh complains about "expr: syntax error" (tries to use the undefined $USER).
11:31
As a minimal way around it, I'm thinking of exporting HOME and USER from screen.d/shell (i.e. I'm not sure if changing it to `login` will cause any problems). Any opinions?
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11:32
<vagrantc>
play around with it, see what happens? :)
11:32
<alkisg>
Both work for me
11:32
But I don't know what happens in other distros...
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12:53
<alkisg>
On Lucid, I'm putting SCREEN_02=shell and SCREEN_07=ldm in lts.conf, but I'm sometimes getting ldm on vt1, sometimes on vt2, and sometimes on vt7.
12:54
I suspect it's a race condition or something, but screen_session no longer functions properly
12:54
(I do have the latest upstrem version of it)
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12:55
<igudym>
hi ppl
12:56
i try to setup ltsp 5 on fedora 12
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12:57
<igudym>
all going OK, client booting show login screen, but when i enter login and password it sleep some time and return to login screen
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12:58
<igudym>
where to look for?
12:59
<vagrantc>
alkisg: i had reverted some of the recent fgconsole changes for debian.
13:00
<alkisg>
vagrantc: hmm maybe I should try with Karmic - but I'm afraid it's yet another upstart issue... :-/
13:00
*with the karmic version of screen_session, that is..
13:00
vagrantc: could you post your current debian version to pastebin?
13:01
<igudym>
may be some debug?
13:02
<vagrantc>
alkisg: i can point you to the patch in launchpad...
13:03
<alkisg>
Thanks
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13:04
<vagrantc>
alkisg: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~vagrantc/ltsp/ltsp-debian-packaging/annotate/head%3A/patches/revert-fgconsole.dpatch
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13:16
<alkisg>
:-/ ps -ef says that everything is ok, "/bin/openvt -s -f -w -c 7 -- /usr/share/ltsp/screen.d/ldm", but ldm is in vt2...
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18:24
<AndyGraybeal>
is there such a thing as wireless PXE booting onto LTSP?
18:24
<vagrantc>
!wireless
18:24
<ltspbot`>
vagrantc: "wireless" :: http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/WirelessLtsp
18:24
<vagrantc>
oh. that URL is dead.
18:25
AndyGraybeal: the short answer is no.
18:25
<AndyGraybeal>
k thank you vagrantc
18:25
freenx is it :)
18:26
<vagrantc>
AndyGraybeal: the long answer is: there are a very rare few models of wireless network cards that support PXE boot.
18:26
<AndyGraybeal>
ah very interesting, i would search those out.
18:27
<vagrantc>
AndyGraybeal: but even if you have those, you'll have to add support in a number of other places. it's technically possible, but only for the adventurous. performance with lots of wireless thin clients on the same network will suffer, too.
18:27
as they all share the same bandwidth
18:31
<AndyGraybeal>
aah interesting thank yu for discussing this.
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