IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 22 November 2009   (all times are UTC)

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06:46
<moldy>
hey
06:46
after upgrade to karmic, the "login as guest" button is gone -- any idea ahy?
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07:19
<moldy>
where can i find reference documentation for LTSP?
07:19
all the links i can find seem to be broken
07:20
<alkisg>
moldy: it's being moved to sourceforge
07:20
<moldy>
alkisg: i noticed that, but where can i get it?
07:21
http://sourceforge.net/apps/mediawiki/ltsp/index.php?title=Ltsp_LtspDocumentationUpstream
07:21
<alkisg>
I think Karmic has an ltsp-docs package
07:21
<moldy>
that's the page you get to when you follow the links from ltsp.org
07:21
the link to the pdf throws a 404
07:25
alkisg: the ltsp-docs package has the pdf, thank you. someone should fix that link.
07:26
<alkisg>
moldy: it's not the only problem in the wiki right now...
07:26
It's in the middle of the moving, 80% of the links there do not work
07:26
<moldy>
alkisg: ah, i see
07:27
so it was bad timing on my part :p
07:27
<alkisg>
Yup... try again in a few weeks or so :D
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07:33
<moldy>
it would be nice if one could move the documentation in a way that keeps it accessible for users, though ;)
07:33
for me, it's not a big problem, but for someone who is just taking a look at ltsp, it probably is
07:40
<alkisg>
Sure, I agree. I heard that the server died, though, so I don't know about the available resources...
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08:18
<Denbert>
Hi there - The topic LTSP doc site is down, giving me this "An error has been encountered in accessing this page. "
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08:42
<Denbert>
Anyone here with experience for at school setup with 150 clients?
08:57
<cyberorg>
Denbert, http://sourceforge.net/apps/mediawiki/ltsp/index.php?title=Ltsp_LtspDocumentationUpstream
08:58
Denbert, there should be docs on distro wikis too, for example http://en.opensuse.org/Category:LTSP
09:01
<Denbert>
Cygerorg, the first link says "Not logged in"
09:02
I haven't tried suse before, as i really like the Debian/Ubuntu apt get system
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09:02
<Denbert>
I'll look at the suse page
09:02
<cyberorg>
https://sourceforge.net/apps/mediawiki/ltsp/index.php
09:02
<Denbert>
Thanx
09:03
<cyberorg>
Denbert, suse instructions will be specific to suse, upstream docs work on all distros :)
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09:03
<Denbert>
cyberdog, the https://sourceforge.net/apps/mediawiki/ltsp/index.php asks for user and password
09:04
<alkisg>
http://sourceforge.net/apps/mediawiki/ltsp/index.php?title=Main_Page
09:04
<cyberorg>
http://sourceforge.net/apps/mediawiki/ltsp/index.php?title=Main_Page
09:05
alkisg, you beat me to it :)
09:05
<alkisg>
;)
09:12
<Denbert>
Thanx - I'll try install Ubuntu 9.10 with LTSP right away as this version should be with LTSP5
09:14
http://www.ubuntu.com/products/whatisubuntu/serveredition/technologies/ltsp - I love the "If you use a machine with two network cards, your server will work directly out of the box"
09:15
Looks like a M$ sales document :)
09:16
<alkisg>
Heh, it does work out of the box with 2 cards though
09:16
But, with 1 card, it need fiddling with some configuration files
09:22
<Denbert>
I'm testing in VMware 2.0.1 - hence I've added one more nic :)
09:26
A server holding 150 clients, isn't it a serious server?
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09:52
<Denbertuz>
Wow - It's simply outstanding - it really worked out of the box
09:53
Is it possible to get access from an Windows XP via RDP?
09:54
<cyberorg>
Denbertuz, for 150 clients you may need to cluster 2 or more servers
09:55
<Denbertuz>
Ok
09:58
First test was VERY impressive - took 20 min to install - no settings at all - just network boot at the client, and bingo: http://hegnstoften.net/pictures/pxe-boot-in-vmware-terminal.png
10:00
My daugthers school i planning a Terminal Server from M$ as they are doing huge sales efforts
10:00
I'll suggest them the ubuntu solution as an alternative
10:02
<alkisg>
There are 2 ways to use RDP, either from inside the gnome session, or at startup, replacing ldm completely
10:02
(i.e. RDP_SERVER and RDP_OPTIONS in lts.conf)
10:05
<Denbertuz>
The school want's to offer the students to bring their own laptops
10:05
This is why the RDP implementation is needed
10:06
Or could it be done with some sort of boot image on an USB/CD/FLOPPY
10:06
<cyberorg>
Denbertuz, for school check this out too http://en.opensuse.org/Education/Live :)
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10:12
<alkisg>
If the students bring their own laptops, then why do you need ltsp for?
10:12
<Denbertuz>
thanx for fast info cyberborg and alkisg - I'm of to match day at the local soccerteam. I'm surely return here for more questions :)
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10:14
<cyberorg>
alkisg, tried new li-f-e iso yet?
10:16
check it out if you haven't already, it is miles ahead of the last one you tested :)
10:16
'night
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10:46
<test-guest>
good morning/evening/afternoon - whatever applies
10:46
<alkisg>
cyberorg: thanks - I'll try it, but unfortunately I invested to much to .deb to change to .rpm now.. :(
10:57
<test-guest>
Might I ask a question specific to ltsp clients on an Xubuntu Hardy LTSP server?
10:58
USB devices show up on Gnome desktop but not on XFCE desktop (both ubuntu-desktop and xubuntu-desktop installed). This is for a amd64 server with i386 clients
11:01
Is this a known issue with XFCE LTSP clients, or can you suggest things I should look at within XFCE? I have looked to desktop and removable devices should show (CD on server shows on desktop), I have set thunar to use all possible combinations of removable devices.
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12:27
<nico1>
hello
12:28
<alkisg>
Hi
12:28
<johnny>
/me thinks alkisg should have a donation button
12:29
<nico1>
i cant access tftp server from a thin client
12:29
it says connection timed out
12:30
<alkisg>
johnny: ;)
12:32
<johnny>
alkisg, that's why i think irc is limiting to us..
12:32
would be cool to have full xmpp muc instead..
12:32
and a web interface with little donation buttons next to your name :)
12:33
<alkisg>
johnny: remember the other time you were telling me something about xmpp groups?
12:33
Can you remind me how they're called?
12:33
nico1: distro/version?
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12:34
<johnny>
xmpp groups?
12:34
remind me what i was talking about :)
12:34
<alkisg>
Grrrr
12:34
:D
12:35
Never mind I'll look at the irc logs... (I can't remember what exactly we were talking about...)
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12:39
<alkisg>
johnny: "shared roster"
12:39
What's that?
12:39
<johnny>
what about it?
12:39
what does it mean?
12:39
it means that you can have all people be friends which each other automatically
12:39
<alkisg>
OK, how do I do that?
12:40
<johnny>
uhmm.. it's server dependent
12:40
not all servers implement it, and not all servers implement it in the same way (yet)
12:40
<alkisg>
Do I setup a local xmpp server? Which one?
12:41
(I think xmpp can help us in the classroom; enable students to share files, the teacher to help a student with desktop sharing etc)
12:41
<johnny>
well, some of it will work automatically, even via zerconf on the same subnet
12:42
everybody on the subnet can/will see each other if the zeroconf account is enabled
12:42
<alkisg>
But "people nearby" that empathy has doesn't support everything that other xmpp account support (e.g. audio/video/desktop sharing etc)
12:42
<johnny>
ah
12:42
figured it'd support desktop sharing..
12:42
sorry
12:42
<alkisg>
So I think if I setup an xmpp server, I could do that
12:43
But I'd lose the "everyone knows all" thing
12:43
Could you recommend me an XMPP server?
12:43
<johnny>
hmm... hard choice..
12:43
ejabberd or prosody i guess
12:44
<alkisg>
Ah. Nice, with a quick look at their web pages, I thought I'd go with jabber2 :)
12:44
<johnny>
prosody seems to have a few less features than ejabberd, but the community is nicer
12:44
no.. jabberd2 is only semi active
12:45
<alkisg>
? no package for prosody in Ubuntu?!!!
12:45
ejabberd it is, then :)
12:50
<johnny>
ejabberd is much harder to configure i think
12:51
i'm not in the support chatroom for ejabberd either
12:51
only prosody
12:52
i also wouldn't recommend that you use ejabberd 2.0.5
12:52
or any 2.0.* version really
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14:56* vagrantc wheezes at the thought of remoteapps
14:56
<vagrantc>
ltsp-notquitesurewherebuthopeitstherightplaceapps
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17:10
<stgraber>
just so that everyone knows, I'll have someone at Revolution Linux to work on a nbd proxy
17:11
kind-of small application that will run on the thin client, simulate a nbd server, handle the communication with the kernel space nbd and will maintain the link with the actual nbd server
17:11
that way we'll be able to solve these disconnections issues and have reconnection work a lot better than it currently does
17:12
I'm hoping to have a proof of concept done next week that I'll commit to ltsp-trunk (could be a separate project in the future though)
17:12
<vagrantc>
crazy
17:13
<stgraber>
yep, but easier than trying to push a change in upstream linux kernel :)
17:13
and that way we can also support reconnecting to a pool of server instead of a single one (especially useful for me ;))
17:14
<vagrantc>
stgraber: seems like code that would belong in the nbd userspace tools
17:16
<stgraber>
vagrantc: yeah, long term plan is to have the kernel talk to userspace and handle the connection from userspace, not sure we'll have energy to put on doing that though (on company time I mean)
17:17
<vagrantc>
stgraber: will be curious to see how it all pans out :)
17:18
<stgraber>
so far I did a 50 lines proof of concept in python and it kind-of works though the code is extremely ugly :)
17:18
so doing it in C should be both faster and will allow us to share some code with nbd-server
17:18
<vagrantc>
it's going to be harder to switch to NBD in debian by default now that linux-modules-extra-2.6 is going away ... i've been looking at dkms to see if it's feasible.
17:19
<stgraber>
if dkms is working correctly in Debian (I know it's not that much used), then it should be extremely easy to do
17:19
you just need a dkms-ified nbd module and have the initramfs rebuilt afterwards
17:19
<vagrantc>
will be evaluating using LTSP_FATCLIENTS at freegeek which may push the need to switch to NBD if it's just too durned slow
17:20
well, NBD is an in-tree kernel, but other stuff (aufs or other unionfs alternative) might not be.
17:20
but in theory, maybe dkms will actually make it simpler.
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17:23
<stgraber>
I've been using dkms for all my out-of-tree modules so far and it works great, brings you a lot of advantages on upgrade
17:31
<vagrantc>
well, look forward to it, then :)
17:32
of course, that'll basically require a build environment in the chroot...
17:42
huh. wiki.ltsp.org points to the same location that ltsp.org points to.
17:42
y'all moved the wiki to sourceforge?
17:46
<stgraber>
don't think so
17:46
hmm, actually, looks like somebody did
17:47
and forgot to mention it (at least I didn't see it on the ML until someone complains about missing pages)
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17:52* stgraber just sent an email to the ML about it, trying to understand what's happening there
17:52
<stgraber>
especially as I don't consider moving to Mediawiki as being a good choice (considering that Revolution Linux is trying to move away from it after using for a few years and having issues with it)
17:53
<vagrantc>
so it goes
17:54* vagrantc is happy to see the wiki moved away from twiki
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17:55
<stgraber>
well, I personaly like MoinMoin, used Twiki for a few projects with no major issues and unfortunately had to maintain a few Mediawiki ...
17:55
<vagrantc>
freegeek uses mediawiki extensively ... i deal.
17:55* vagrantc struggles with moinmoin
17:56
<stgraber>
Mediawiki is usually fine as long as you don't need ACLs and don't use too many extensions
17:56
I also had quite a lot of issues with utf-8 though I think we solved them now
18:05* vagrantc wishes to find someplace to use ikiwiki
18:06
<johnny>
is ikwiki the best dvcs wiki?
18:06
i don't know
18:06
seems pretty ugg to me
18:08
<vagrantc>
i think using a real revision control system for a backend is pretty intelligent.
18:08
<johnny>
git-wiki might be worth looking at
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23:29
<cyberorg>
alkisg, not for switching, for constructive criticism(and praises mostly) :D
23:30
<alkisg>
Heh, sure, I can do that ;) You deserve it :)
23:43
<cyberorg>
alkisg, this image includes graphical boot loader, your suggestion :)
23:44
<alkisg>
I've done a live Ubuntu/LTSP remix as well, it goes pretty well considering it runs from a DVD....
23:46
I've put an if-up script that automatically reconfigures dnsmasq whenever the IP changes, so it runs completely automatically, with no user configuration needed...
23:47
<cyberorg>
wow, i can test that, use some tricks, where can i get it?
23:49
how do you specify dhcp range to give out to clients?
23:50
<alkisg>
It's basically the ltsp-server-pnp script I gave you some time ago.
23:51
It's a live dvd, so I don't expect the user to rewire his network; I expect an existing dhcp server there.
23:54
<cyberorg>
right, so dnsmasq just serves as proxy dhcp, can we get it to take over the role of dhcp server if no other is found in the network automatically?
23:55
<alkisg>
Sure, that's just a line in the configuration file. But how can you detect that?
23:55
E.g. the dhcp server may be temporarily down when the ltsp server is booted, and it could get up again after a few seconds...
23:56* alkisg is fine with *requiring* a dhcp server :D
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23:58
<cyberorg>
i am just thinking from "works under all scenarios" POV :)
23:59* alkisg is thinking from "it never *breaks* stuff" POV :D
23:59
<alkisg>
If no dhcp server is present, then the user knows to setup his network anyway
23:59
He'll have to assign a static IP to the server etc etc