IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 28 August 2014   (all times are UTC)

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05:08
<gdi2k>
I'm trying to get NBD swap working. I'm using Xubuntu 14.04 with fat clients. I've followed the instructions on https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/EnableNBDSWAP which worked for me previously, but not this time. No swap shows up on the thin client. How can I diagnose this?
05:09
(I meant to say: No swap shows up on the fat clients")
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07:12
<tunapanda>
hey all. Have just installed LTSP onto a server. Thin clients will get to login screen but I can't login (error: no response from server, restarting).
07:12
Have tried ltsp-update-sshkeys and ltsp-update image but no change
07:12
any ideas? Thanks.
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10:57
<gdi2k_>
bennabiy, many thanks for making available those packages, I installed them today. However, the function I'm after, LDM_PASSWORD_HASH = True doesn't seem to be working for me. After rebooting clients, the /etc/shadow file does not contain the user's hashed password on the client
10:58
I've added the variable to lts.conf - is there anything else that needs to be done to make it work?
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12:48
<uuuolliw>
Hello. Someone once encountered a problem of bad uname kernel version for server686/client486 architecture ?
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14:49
<bennabiy>
gdi2k_: Is this for thin or fat clients?
14:50
<gdi2k_>
bennabiy, fat clients
14:50
<bennabiy>
Ahh, do not use a space in the lts.conf
14:50
LDM_PASSWORD_HASH=True
14:51
<||cw>
uuuolliw: what kind of problem?
14:51
<gdi2k_>
bennabiy, uh, didn't know it was so sensitive - let me try now...
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14:54
<bennabiy>
yes, it should work for you if you take the spaces out. Also, be careful if you generated lts.conf by way of ltsp-config. If you added the entry to the very bottom, it would only take effect with OLD MONITOR config.
14:55
alkisg, vagrantc: I wonder if we should make it much more clear that anything added to the end is going to only fall under [OLD MONITOR] and not take effect unless their system qualifies.
14:56
<cryptrat>
Hi Asterisks, i have a question, i recently updated the LTSP and NBD-Server and now the LTS.CONF line LTSP_FATCLIENT=false isn't working
14:56
would you have any other suggestions?
14:56
or should i try rolling back
14:58
<gdi2k_>
bennabiy, still the same issue after removing the spaces. I created the lts.conf myself and only have one [default] section
14:58
<bennabiy>
Even if we made the default lts.conf template have a section which says something along the lines of... "Insert global settings in this space: <newline> #################### START GLOBAL SETTINGS ################ <a couple blank spaces> ################# END GLOBAL SETTINGS #################" something like that
14:58
<gdi2k_>
bennabiy, /etc/shadow shows my user like this: username:!:16310:0:99999:7:::
14:59
<bennabiy>
gdi2k_: one second.
15:00
gdi2k_: and you are sure you grabbed the most recent ldm?
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15:00
<bennabiy>
welcome alkisg
15:01* alkisg waves
15:01
<markit>
hi alkisg :) long long time
15:01
<alkisg>
Hi markit, indeed, how are you doing?
15:01
<markit>
I've already some questions for you, lol
15:02
alkisg: I should have been on holiday, but had to work, so school upgrade (and tests) for 14.04 has not been made
15:02
wondering if is something I could try in these last 15 days of better not :)
15:02
<alkisg>
Here we decided to stick to 12.04, as gnome-flashback regressed a lot in 14.04
15:02
<markit>
at the end of the last year I did some "programming lessons" with raspberrt py and scratch, children very interested, we will do again this year
15:03
<gdi2k_>
bennabiy, yes, my versions are like this: http://paste.ubuntu.com/8169655/
15:03
<markit>
alkisg: I'm using kde, so I could try... is something I really need to know for 14.04?
15:03
<alkisg>
From ltsp, not really, things work as usual
15:03
<markit>
I mean, something changed? and your repo will be updated for 14.04 or not?
15:03
<alkisg>
From kde, no idea
15:04
<markit>
I mean, for 14.04 do I have to put greek repo as usual or better not, since you don't support it?
15:04
<alkisg>
There's no need to upload a newer ltsp version to the ppa, the ubuntu one is current enough
15:04
<cryptrat>
anyone know how to make a fat client boot as a thin client other that LTSP_FATCLIENT=false ???
15:04
<alkisg>
If you've been using the ppa in 12.04, put it in 14.04 too
15:04
I'll probably send some updates there during the next couple of years...
15:05
cryptrat: put your lts.conf to pastebin
15:05
<markit>
I see :) ehm, how are you doing? (forgot to ask in the urge to get these info, lol)
15:06
<alkisg>
Vacations end in the weekend... so it's been very nice so far, but things are starting to look down now :D
15:06
You?
15:06
<bennabiy>
gdi2k_: might be a silly question, but did you update the packages within your image?
15:06
It is not enough to just do it on your server
15:07
<gdi2k_>
ah so I have to ltsp-update-image afterwards too? thought it was literally just a server thing!
15:08
(not such a silly question!) ;)
15:08
<markit>
alkisg: I had some work to do so vacations have been pratically ruined. In addition here was raining almost any day... incredible but true
15:08
<bennabiy>
gdi2k_: It needs to make it to your fat client
15:09
<cryptrat>
thanks i think i found my problem for some reason i must have hit a / key when i edited the lts.conf as there was a /[DEFAULT] removed that extra mark rebooted the machine and loads as a thin client again
15:09
<gdi2k_>
bennabiy, thanks! updating image now...
15:09
<markit>
alkisg: are you considering move to lxde or something else (ehm, kde if I can convince developer to make it more "lighter") in the near future?
15:10
I think gnome-fallback is a dead horse, no?
15:10
<bennabiy>
gdi2k_: great. Let me know if there are more problems
15:10
markit: MATE works great
15:11
<alkisg>
markit: people are still working on gnome-flashback, and yes mate is looking like it's going to be actively maintained
15:12
I'm not thinking about lxde/kde... i'm between gnome-flashback, mate, and gnome and lxde-qt in the future
15:12
<uuuolliw>
||cw: it's good, i'm use C programe for FakeUname
15:16
<gdi2k_>
bennabiy, still the same :( no hashed password in /etc/shadow
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15:20
<bennabiy>
gdi2k_: how did you generate your fat client?
15:20
ltsp-update-image -c / ?
15:21
<gdi2k_>
I updated using "ltsp-update-image" only
15:21
not familiar with -c option
15:21
<bennabiy>
runs the cleanup scripts
15:21
<gdi2k_>
ah ok - it's safe?
15:21
<bennabiy>
yes
15:21
<gdi2k_>
ok, giving it a shot now...
15:22
<bennabiy>
It will take your current server and make a fat client image out of it
15:22
so whatever you have installed on your server, will be installed on your fat client
15:22
<gdi2k_>
what about all the apps I installed inside the chroot?
15:22
<bennabiy>
This does not generate a chroot.
15:23
It just makes a squashfs image file
15:23
<gdi2k_>
with the chroot as the basis? or the server as the basis?
15:24
<||cw>
the server
15:24
<bennabiy>
server
15:24
<gdi2k_>
so it will not contain all the apps I installed in the chroot right?
15:24
<alkisg>
bennabiy: I think gdi2k_ is not using ltsp-pnp, no reason to force him to use it if he prefers using a chroot...
15:24
<||cw>
basically, so it acts like a thin client, having the apps that are available on the server
15:24
<alkisg>
So it's plain ltsp-update-image, no need for `-c /`...
15:25
<||cw>
so that thin clients built normally and fat clients built off / will be "in sync"
15:25
<gdi2k_>
yeh, I have set up the chroot as I need - I don't want to use the server as the basis for my clients
15:25
<bennabiy>
alkisg: When I asked, he said just plain ltsp-update-image so I thought he already made it from that
15:25
<alkisg>
gdi2k_: did you put the ppa in your chroot as well?
15:25
<gdi2k_>
no
15:25
<alkisg>
There you go.
15:25
<||cw>
is there a downside to pnp?
15:25
<gdi2k_>
I just grabbed the debs
15:26
<alkisg>
Ah ok, if you put them to the chroot...
15:26
<gdi2k_>
so I need to be installing those LTSP and LDM packages inside the chroot
15:26
<bennabiy>
yes
15:26
<gdi2k_>
ok got it! :) thank you! I thought they were only server packages
15:26
<alkisg>
||cw: some people prefer to have different programs on the server... or a different arch
15:26
gdi2k_: did you actually install ldm to your server?
15:27
<gdi2k_>
yes
15:27
<alkisg>
That one was supposed to go to the chroot
15:27
<gdi2k_>
not needed now I think about it
15:27
yes, understand now
15:27
seems obvious in hindsight!
15:27
ldm runs on the client of course
15:29
so in the chroot I need ltsp-client-core, ltsp-client and ldm packages, but not the server packages right?
15:30
and not the builder packages presumably
15:30
<bennabiy>
gdi2k_: sounds right, but alkisg would know more
15:31
<alkisg>
Paste the output of ltsp-info...
15:32
<gdi2k_>
within chroot?
15:32
<alkisg>
Outside of it
15:32
sudo ltsp-info
15:33
<gdi2k_>
http://paste.ubuntu.com/8169850/
15:33
sorry, you got the top of the chroot before I exited in that paste
15:33
from line 7 is what I meant to paste
15:34
<alkisg>
The packages that you see in the chroot... uninstall them from the server
15:35
<gdi2k_>
ltsp-client, ltsp-client-core and ldm ?
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15:36* bennabiy waves to vagrantc
15:36* vagrantc waves
15:36
<bennabiy>
vagrantc: What is the best way to handle pinning in a chroot install?
15:37
<alkisg>
gdi2k_: and another one, look again. :)
15:37
bennabiy: why is pinning needed? what's the problem with mint 17?
15:37
<bennabiy>
alkisg: mintsources conflicts with software-properties-gtk, thereby stopping the install
15:38
since s-p-gtk is a hardcoded reference in things like synaptic
15:38
<alkisg>
How does pinning solve the issue?
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15:39
<Hyperbyte>
Doesn't pinning always solve every issue at all times?
15:40
<bennabiy>
really, it will only solve it if I can control the APT sources, to have more than one mirror and pin the priority
15:40
back in a minute
15:42
<alkisg>
synaptic only suggests software-properties-gtk, why would that be an issue?
15:42
<bennabiy>
https://github.com/linuxmint/mintsources/issues/30
15:43
<gdi2k_>
alkisg, hmm, those are the only 3 I installed in the chroot - what am I missing? anyway, I updated the image but still no success - no hashed passworrd in /etc/shadow
15:43
<alkisg>
gdi2k_: lines 35 and 36 in your paste
15:43
I.e. you don't need ltspfsd in your server
15:44
<bennabiy>
gdi2k_: you can check the ldm log as well to see if hashpass is firing. It should leave a note if it runs.
15:45
<gdi2k_>
alkisg, ok got it
15:46
<alkisg>
bennabiy: in the issue you posted, the poster just gives a wrong solution
15:46
Then he finds a better one
15:46
<gdi2k_>
bennabiy, no nothing like that in ldm.log on the client
15:46
<alkisg>
You don't need provides nor multiple sources...
15:51
<gdi2k_>
alkisg, if I uninstall those things, it suggest I no longer need useful things like gtk2-engines human-theme language-pack-en language-pack-en-base
15:51
(on the server, not chroot)
15:52
but removing them will not solve my hashed password issue anyway I don't think
15:52
<alkisg>
gdi2k_: that's an unrelated issue with your server installation... :)
15:52
Are you sure gtk2-engines is needed?
15:52
Because it's possible that only ldm needs that
15:52
So it's safe to remove it now that you don't have ldm on your server :)
15:52
<gdi2k_>
yes, maybe
15:52
<alkisg>
Anyway, yes, removing ltspfsd won't make the problem go away
15:53
<gdi2k_>
here's the full list: http://paste.ubuntu.com/8169999/
15:53
<alkisg>
gdi2k_: run this: sudo apt-get purge --autoremove
15:53
Then press ctrl+c
15:53
You'll see the list of packages that are not needed _before_ removing anything like ltspfsd...
15:54
<markit>
alkisg: I'm going to leave, just to tell you a strange thing happend to me 3 days ago, so you can add in your deep "brain knowledge base". Clients did dhcp but stopped with "TFPT" and an arp problem... was a cat5 cable that was put again in an empty connector instead than in a pc (so created a loop). Maybe good switch mitigate the problem (usually you have and "arp storm" and switch knocked out) but made it more difficoult to resolve
15:54
<alkisg>
sudo apt-get purge --auto-remove
15:54
<gdi2k_>
it only suggests syslinux
15:54
<vagrantc>
bennabiy: apt pinning is at best a hackish workaround generally broken designs
15:56
<alkisg>
gdi2k_: you can check your apt history, those packages were installed today that you installed ltsp-client in your server
15:56
It should be safe to remove them
15:56
<gdi2k_>
alkisg, ok thank you
15:56
any other ideas how I might address the hashed password issue?
15:56
<alkisg>
I haven't tested that, sorry, no
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15:56
<bennabiy>
vagrantc: what would you suggest?
15:56
<vagrantc>
bennabiy: fix mint.
15:57
bennabiy: i think mint's reliance on apt pinning to workaround conflicts with ubuntu's repositories is an unsustainable hack.
15:57
<alkisg>
It doesn't use pinning
15:58
It just makes sure that software-packages-gtk isn't preinstalled when the cd is created
15:58
<bennabiy>
yes
15:58
<vagrantc>
how do they prevent security updates on the linux kernel packages?
15:58
<alkisg>
If you do the same with ltsp, problem solved
15:58
I meant in the specific issue that bennabiy tries to solve, not in general
15:58
<vagrantc>
but why should software-packages-gtk not be installable in the first place?
15:58
<gdi2k_>
vagrantc, do you have any suggestions about how I may diagnose the hashed password function in the latest ltsp versions not working? I have the updated packages that include it, but no sign of it working in the logs, and /etc/shadow does not contain hashed pass
15:58
<alkisg>
They provide an alternative package
15:58
One which doesn't "replace" s-p-g
15:59
<vagrantc>
gdi2k_: did you enable it?
15:59
gdi2k_: in lts.conf?
15:59
<gdi2k_>
yes
15:59
<vagrantc>
gdi2k_: is your lts.conf respected in other ways?
15:59
<bennabiy>
gdi2k_: where is your lts.conf located?
15:59
<vagrantc>
alkisg: then it should fix the issue
15:59
alkisg: in their package
16:00
<alkisg>
Yup, I agree about that part
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16:03
<gdi2k_>
vagrantc, my lts.conf is at /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/amd64/lts.conf
16:03
vagrantc, I am not sure if it is being respected or not - quick way to test?
16:04
vagrantc, it is enabled there, I will post
16:04
<vagrantc>
gdi2k_: set SCREEN_02=shell and SCREEN_DEFAULT=02 in it and see if you get a shell
16:04
gdi2k_: when you boot a client
16:08
<gdi2k_>
vagrantc, yes, lts.conf is being respected
16:08
vagrantc, looks like this: http://paste.ubuntu.com/8170098/
16:14
a more urgent topic, my nbd swap is not working since I tried to place it on a drive as my SSD / drive is too small to support all the clients. I've changed it back temporarily but the clients aren't getting it - is there any service I need to restart, and can I do it without wreaking havoc on running client sessions?
16:16
<vagrantc>
my guess would be restart nbd-server, but that would be disruptive to running clients
16:23
<gdi2k_>
vagrantc, thanks, apparently yes
16:28
<alkisg>
gdi2k_: how did you try to place it to another drive?
16:28
By mounting /tmp/nbd-swap on another drive?
16:29
<gdi2k_>
alkisg, I fixed it already, but I changed the config from exportname = /tmp/nbd-swap/%s to exportname = /home/nbd-swap/%s
16:29
alkisg, I created that directory and I think I set the permissions correctly, but it didn't work
16:29
(/home is on spinning disks, / is on SSD)
16:30
<alkisg>
Put the "nbd" user as the owner of that dir
16:30
<gdi2k_>
alkisg, no, that was likely the mistake. I see now that nbd-swap in /tmp is owned by nbd
16:31
I will play with it tomorrow evening when everyone is off, thank you for that tip
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16:33
<bennabiy>
gdi2k_: I am off to get some lunch, but will be back a little later. A couple things to check on your client would be to see if the shadow.sed file is being generated
16:33
<gdi2k_>
bennabiy, thanks! should it be in /etc ?
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16:34
<bennabiy>
vagrantc: do you remember where we put it?
16:34
<alkisg>
/var/cache/ltsp
16:34
<bennabiy>
ah yes
16:35
sorry, I hit my head pretty hard yesterday, still somewhat recovering
16:35
<gdi2k_>
I have shadow at that location. but not shadow.sed
16:35* vagrantc thinks it should go in the ldm package
16:35
<bennabiy>
vagrantc: the rc.d stuff?
16:35
<vagrantc>
as it's an LDM feature added to localapps
16:35
<bennabiy>
I agree, and that was how I had it originally :)
16:36
feel free to move it :)
16:36
I will be back.
16:36* bennabiy waves
16:36
<vagrantc>
bennabiy: alkisg eventually convinced me, but after actually deploying it, i'm no longer convinced
16:37* alkisg doesn't see the difference between that feature, and the other features in X01-localapps
16:37
<alkisg>
localapps and ldm are interweaved, but password hash is a localapps thing...
16:38
<vagrantc>
if anything, localapps support could e made into it's own source
16:38
<alkisg>
If we implement localapps over libpam_sshauth, the password hash would go there as well
16:38
It's not specific to ldm...
16:38
<gdi2k_>
alkisg, on the topic of nbd-swap, is all of the allocated swap actually consumed on disk, or is only the amount actually required by the client consumed? For example, if I have a client that has been allocated 4 GB but is only using 200 MB swap, how much actual server disk space is used?
16:38
<vagrantc>
alkisg: well, the feature is LDM_PASSWORD_HASH ... so it seems pretty LDM specific :)
16:39
<alkisg>
All the LDM* variables will go away in ltsp6 anyway :)
16:39
<vagrantc>
alkisg: libpam_sshauth wouldn't require it at all
16:39
it's a workaround for not having libpam-sshauth working
16:39
<alkisg>
True, bad example on my part
16:39
LDM_USERNAME etc are in X01-localapps, not in the ldm package
16:40
LDM_SERVER, LDM_HOME etc etc
16:40
<vagrantc>
i'm not saying it's all implemented correctly, but that doesn't mean we can't make it cleaner in the future
16:41
<alkisg>
It's a hack that shouldn't be needed in the first place, so in the future it's not going to be there at all...
16:41
<vagrantc>
but it's true, the features are quite intertwined
16:41
<alkisg>
gdi2k_: google for "sparse files"
16:41
Short answer, no, not all space is consumed at first
16:41
vagrantc: how's debconf going?
16:42
<gdi2k_>
alkisg, perfect thank you
16:43
<vagrantc>
alkisg: great! though not much time for actual coding!
16:43
debconf is as much a social event as a technical event, though it also lays the groundwork for what technical things are worth implementing
16:46
<gdi2k_>
bennabiy, it's late here (00:45) and I have to get some sleep, but feel free to post any ideas you have about how I could diagnose the issues with hashed passwords and I will run through them in the morning and post back... maybe you'll still be online...
16:46
many thanks everyone for your help!
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17:08
<bennabiy>
vagrantc: is there a method for handling packages to be removed at a certain point in the chroot install?
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17:09
<vagrantc>
bennabiy: no, but easy enough to create one
17:10
<bennabiy>
basically, because of the limitations on debootstrap, I need to install a stock 14.04, remove a couple packages, add the late mirrors and then add the packages I need
17:10
<vagrantc>
bennabiy: just look at the package installation hooks, and create the inverse
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17:12
<bennabiy>
!learn bennabiy_todo as Fix Mint 17 support - create package removal hook and update script
17:12
<ltsp`>
The operation succeeded.
17:12
<bennabiy>
!bennabiy_todo
17:12
<ltsp`>
bennabiy_todo: (#1) Finish patching LinuxMint code to detect NON mint chroot build requests on mint, and to build a mint chroot on non mint server., or (#2) document hash directive (following example http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ltsp-docwriters/ltsp/ltsp-docs-trunk/revision/146 ), or (#3) Fix Mint 17 support - create package removal hook and update script
17:12
<bennabiy>
vagrantc: Did I end up documenting the hash?
17:12
I cannot remember
17:13
I thought I did
17:13
<vagrantc>
bennabiy: i *think* so ...
17:13
bennabiy: yup, and i made some corrections
17:13
<bennabiy>
!forget bennabiy_todo 2
17:13
<ltsp`>
The operation succeeded.
17:14
<bennabiy>
vagrantc: That is right. I remember now
17:14
!LinuxMint
17:14
<ltsp`>
LinuxMint: https://launchpad.net/~bennabiy/+archive/testing Developmental Branch for Mint support
17:14
<vagrantc>
vcs >= remembering
17:14
<bennabiy>
I have trouble remembering where my files are let alone vcs ;)
17:15
I double version control
17:15
bzr keeps track of individual things, but then I keep a git of all my bzr controlled files
17:16
so I actively update my git, and then update my bzr when I am ready to push a commit
17:16* vagrantc just uses git-remote-bzr
17:16
<bennabiy>
any downside to using it?
17:17
<vagrantc>
the was a bug in older versions that didn't handle filetype conversions (i.e. file to symlink)
17:17
but that's fixed now
17:18
it also can't push tags
17:18
but it can pull them fine
17:19
so i do still keep a local copy of bzr.
17:20
but i've been doing most of my work in git lately ...
17:20
bennabiy: probably can use the package in debian ... dunno if it's hit ubuntu yet
17:22
<bennabiy>
!learn mint17 as For thin clients - #ltsp-build-client --dist=trusty --mint-dist=none (and for fat clients, use the ltsp-pnp method) #ltsp-update-image -c /
17:22
<ltsp`>
The operation succeeded.
17:23
<bennabiy>
!mint17
17:23
<ltsp`>
mint17: For thin clients - #ltsp-build-client --dist=trusty --mint-dist=none (and for fat clients, use the ltsp-pnp method) #ltsp-update-image -c /
17:23
<bennabiy>
until I can get the code working
17:26
<vagrantc>
ltsp-pnp should work without a hitch, no?
17:28
<bennabiy>
ltsp-pnp works fine
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17:28
<bennabiy>
for fat clients
17:29
There is a way you can do ltsp-pnp, and then extract to a folder the squashfs image
17:29
to make a chroot
17:30
I wonder if we could put a flag which would be able to make a chroot using the ltsp-pnp method post cleanup
17:30
so that it is not just an image file created, but also the chroot to go with it
17:30
<vagrantc>
why do you want the chroot?
17:31
<bennabiy>
because I like to keep my server environment clean of some apps that I might want in the chroot
17:31
<vagrantc>
you could probably write some "cleanup" hooks that add/remove packages before building the image
17:32
<bennabiy>
can I put them in the ldm package?
17:32
;)
17:32
<vagrantc>
uh.
17:32
<bennabiy>
sorry, bad joke
17:33
<vagrantc>
i'll be on-again off-again today
17:33
heading down to the conference soonish
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17:33
<bennabiy>
ok
17:33
I am going to be here and gone as well
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19:44
<championofcyrodi>
looks like i have to stand up an LTSP server using CentOS 6.5 only :\
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20:18
<bennabiy>
I do not want to speak too soon, but I might have found a simple solution to the package issue. testing if --exclude software-properties-gtk will work
20:26
<vagrantc>
in debootstrap?
20:26
that seems like a really high-level thing to be pulled in by debootstrap
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21:10
<bennabiy>
woohoo! it worked!
21:10
will update the code tomorrow
21:11
It was being pulled in by some of the mint / mate packages
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