IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 26 May 2007   (all times are UTC)

00:03dem has joined #ltsp
02:37Burgundavia has joined #ltsp
02:49matw has joined #ltsp
02:49vagrantc has joined #ltsp
03:12matw has left #ltsp
03:17plamengr has joined #ltsp
03:17plamengr has left #ltsp
03:33plameng1 has joined #ltsp
03:33plameng1 has left #ltsp
03:47matw has joined #ltsp
03:54matw has left #ltsp
04:15plamengr has joined #ltsp
04:15plamengr has left #ltsp
04:16ogra-classmate has joined #ltsp
04:18Burgundavia has quit IRC
05:10spectra has quit IRC
05:18maaarek has joined #ltsp
05:30ogra-classmate has quit IRC
05:51krinns has quit IRC
05:54ogra-classmate has joined #ltsp
07:00maaarek has quit IRC
07:09freet15 has quit IRC
07:13Egyptian[Home] has joined #ltsp
07:19ogra-classmate has quit IRC
07:22sepski has joined #ltsp
07:24ogra-classmate has joined #ltsp
07:39jsgotangco has joined #ltsp
07:46fernando199 has joined #ltsp
07:47fernando1 has quit IRC
07:49nf1 has quit IRC
07:55fernando199 has left #ltsp
07:57maaarek has joined #ltsp
08:07jsgotangco has quit IRC
08:07muh2000 has quit IRC
08:19ogra-classmate has quit IRC
08:38maaarek has quit IRC
08:52matw has joined #ltsp
09:04gepatino has joined #ltsp
09:08gu has quit IRC
09:17gepatino has quit IRC
09:19ogra-classmate has joined #ltsp
09:22gu has joined #ltsp
09:46floatingman has quit IRC
09:57gepatino has joined #ltsp
09:58vagrantc has quit IRC
09:58matw has left #ltsp
10:03gepatino has quit IRC
10:23Q-FUNK has joined #ltsp
10:44PMantis has joined #LTSP
10:45
<PMantis>
hi guys!
10:45
You know, the link in the topic is bad... no wiki topic.
10:47
Hmmm, weird.
10:47
When I click on the link, it takes me to: http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/viewauth/Ltsp/Downloads
11:01ogra-classmate has quit IRC
11:06ogra-classmate has joined #ltsp
11:13fernando1 has joined #ltsp
11:40matw has joined #ltsp
11:49irule has joined #ltsp
11:51matw has left #ltsp
12:00ChanServ sets mode: +o jammcq
12:01jammcq changes topic to "LTSP-5.0 is the current version that you should be using. Especially if you are new to LTSP. Check out Ubuntu and Debian for awesome integration. Or, go to the LTSP Download page at http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/DownLoads"
12:02
<jammcq>
ah, much better :)
12:02
<PMantis>
Works now
12:03
<jammcq>
thanks PMantis, odd that it's taken a month for anybody to notice that little problem
12:05
<PMantis>
I'm excited about Dell's new Ubuntu offer... tempted to get a new laptop now.
12:05ogra has quit IRC
12:08* jammcq is tempted to by the cheap laptop. kidz need a new one, and that's a good way to go
12:23sepski has quit IRC
12:23PMantis has left #LTSP
12:24sepski has joined #ltsp
12:28cyberorg has left #ltsp
12:32nf1 has joined #ltsp
13:02sepski has quit IRC
13:03vagrantc has joined #ltsp
13:15irule has quit IRC
13:30muh2000 has joined #ltsp
13:39matw has joined #ltsp
13:40matw has left #ltsp
14:04Burgundavia has joined #ltsp
14:10
<vagrantc>
Burgundavia: buenas tardes
14:11
<Burgundavia>
hey vagrantc
14:22Q-FUNK has quit IRC
14:27fastTalker has joined #ltsp
14:28
<fastTalker>
has anyone boot from an intel gigabit nic
14:30
<vagrantc>
does it support PXE ?
14:31
<fastTalker>
yes
14:31
<vagrantc>
you having trouble getting it to work?
14:32
<fastTalker>
yes i get a kernel panic when it is booting
14:32
...because it cannot detect my nic
14:32
<vagrantc>
ah, well.
14:32
fastTalker: what distro?
14:32
<fastTalker>
debian
14:34
<vagrantc>
ltsp version?
14:35
<fastTalker>
4.2
14:35
<vagrantc>
hrm.
14:35
i'm clueless on 4.2 ...
14:35
<jammcq>
what kind of nic ?
14:36
<fastTalker>
it's onboard 82573v
14:36
intel
14:37
i have to manually compile the e1000 module for debian but i am not sure how to do that for ltsp
14:37
<jammcq>
e1000 should be no problem, I think it's already in the ltsp kernel
14:38
<vagrantc>
what version of debian you running?
14:38
<fastTalker>
testing
14:38
<vagrantc>
e1000 has been in standard debian kernels since sarge, i thought ...
14:38
<jammcq>
yeah, e1000 is there already. so, maybe you just need to tell the kernel to use it
14:39
<vagrantc>
fastTalker: would you consider trying ltsp5 in debian?
14:39
<jammcq>
http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/KernelOptions
14:39
read that page, for info about how to tell it which driver to use
14:39* jammcq watches vagrantc shift into sales mode :)
14:40* vagrantc looks at feet
14:40Q-FUNK has joined #ltsp
14:41
<vagrantc>
jammcq: you're the one who set the topic :)
14:41
the topic that begins with "LTSP-5.0 is the current version that you should be using."
14:41
<jammcq>
yeah, that was me
14:43
<vagrantc>
jammcq: hey, howzabout updating some tarballs? :)
14:44
<jammcq>
yeah, I should definately do that. maybe this weekend would be a good time
14:44
it's not like it's hard to do
14:44
<vagrantc>
apt-get update
14:44
apt-get upgrade
14:44
jammcq: though you should also grab ltspfsd from lenny (etch+1)
14:45
<jammcq>
i'm thinking that a complete rebuild is needed for ubuntu
14:45
<vagrantc>
jammcq: and maybe grab the ltsp packages from lenny.
14:45* vagrantc is wearing the debian hat
14:45
<jammcq>
something about whether the chroot was built with the most current ltsp-build-client
14:45
vagrantc: can I just build a lenny box, and install ltsp on that, and then tar up that chroot ?
14:46
<vagrantc>
jammcq: if you want to maintain security updates for all the lenny packages ...
14:46
<fastTalker>
adding NIC=e1000 as a kernel parameter fixed it
14:46
<jammcq>
fastTalker: cool, glad to hear it helped
14:46
<fastTalker>
i was trying to use insmod=e1000
14:46
thanks
14:46
<vagrantc>
jammcq: what might be a good idea is to do an etch tarball + newer versions of ltsp-specific stuff
14:47
<jammcq>
how do I do that?
14:48
<vagrantc>
well, the process could be improved ... but at the moment i'd say build an etch tarball, add an entry to sources.list for lenny, and then upgrade individual packages ...
14:48
ldm ltspfsd ltsp-client
14:49* jammcq is confused. are you saying I should start with etch, and add *some* things from lenny?
14:49
<vagrantc>
exactly
14:49
seeing as ltspfsd isn't in etch at all ... and there's already some bugfixes for ltsp-client
14:50
jammcq: that way, the only moving target is the ltsp stuff. everything else is still stable and security-supported.
14:51
jammcq: i could set up an apt repository with etch backports if you'd like.
14:51
<jammcq>
but.... is that really a good solution for us to provide a stable ltsp chroot for people to test out on other distros?
14:52
why not just a bone-stock etch ltsp ?
14:52
if they want newer things, they could build their own debian server
14:52
<vagrantc>
because it doesn't include ltspfs
14:52
<jammcq>
what is debian using server-side for ltspfs ?
14:52
<vagrantc>
and there's some stupid bugs we weren't able to fix in time for release
14:52
<jammcq>
still lbus ?
14:53
<vagrantc>
debian etch has no support for ltspfs without grabbing packages from lenny
14:53
<jammcq>
right, but what is it using server-side, to handle local devices?
14:53
lenny that is
14:53
<vagrantc>
but it works with the ltspfs* packages in lenny
14:54
i repackaged the ubuntu ltspfs for debian
14:54
<jammcq>
ok, lets say that someone wants to take our "etch chroot +lenny ltspfs" tarball, and install that on his fedora core 7 server. what else would he need to install on that fc7 box to make local devices work?
14:55
<vagrantc>
jammcq: he'd need to use the ubuntu/debian implementation of ltspfs, i think.
14:55
<jammcq>
ummm, i'm thinking that's probably not gonna be easy on a fc7 box
14:56
<vagrantc>
i've been saying that for months
14:56
<jammcq>
if we have no tarballs containing those bits, the guy is gonna be in trouble
14:56
so, if that's the case, then what's the point in supplying lenny-ltspfs stuff?
14:57
<Burgundavia>
vagrantc: are we talking upstream responsibilities again?
14:57
<vagrantc>
Burgundavia: indeed we are!
14:57PMantis has joined #LTSP
14:58
<jammcq>
if you wanna have the "upstream responsibilities" talk, we can do that, but it makes no sense to worry about lenny ltspfs bits until we resolve that. or am I just confused?
14:58
<vagrantc>
jammcq: it *might* cause someone to do the task of porting the packaging to an rpm based system who wasn't ambitious enough to port ltsp5 to rpm based systems?
14:58
<PMantis>
uh-oh, jammcq has ops, behave!
14:58
<vagrantc>
and then that's one step out of the way.
14:59* jammcq thinks the more likely outcome is someone will go through the time and trouble of installing the tarball, thinking they've got something pretty cool, only to find out they don't have local devices
14:59
<Burgundavia>
if the tarball allowing local devices was in the same location, it wouldn't be a big problem
14:59
<PMantis>
So, what's the state of LTSP 5.0 with Ubuntu 7.04 now... I've been out of the loop lately.
15:00
<vagrantc>
the tarball is also a lot easier to install.
15:00
<jammcq>
with lenny and Ubuntu both using the same ltspfs, is it safe to assume that if someone DOES do the needful, by creating the ltspfs-server stuff for their distro, it should work for both the Ubuntu and the debian tarballs ?
15:00
<vagrantc>
PMantis: other than some slowness complains, it works.
15:01
jammcq: probably hopefully?
15:01
<jammcq>
well, that's a *good* thing then
15:01
<vagrantc>
jammcq: the only thing i'm not sure is if there will be conflicts with different fuse implementations
15:01
<jammcq>
hopefully fuse between debian and ubuntu are the same
15:02
<vagrantc>
i haven't actually tried it, but that would be something good to find out
15:02
but i was more thinking fuse between debian, ubuntu and FOO were the same
15:02
<PMantis>
Ahh, so that means local-dev on Feisty works...
15:02
<jammcq>
actually, it's not like a FUSE protocol
15:02
<Burgundavia>
might it make sense to declare a minimum FUSE version?
15:02
<jammcq>
it's the LTSPFS protocol that needs to be the same
15:02
and that should be easy to control
15:03
fuse is just the framework that supports LTSPFS
15:03* vagrantc doesn't know enough about FUSE to really know if there will be compatibility concerns but was just raising the issue so that others who have a clue can think about it
15:04
<PMantis>
Scotty did some nice work there (likely other contributors by now though)
15:05
<vagrantc>
to me, fuse is black magic and i'm happy it tends to work so well
15:06
<jammcq>
it's just some magic goo that exposes the VFS to userspace processes
15:06
it's elegant in its simplicity
15:06
or simple in its elegance
15:06
one of those
15:08
<vagrantc>
so, anyways ... my thought regarding the tarballs, is that it should contain the most current ltsp stuff available that's compatible with the distro in question ... that's why i suggest making an etch tarball with a few ltsp-specific packages from debian
15:08
debian lenny
15:08* jammcq had to become op, to fix the topic. now he doesn't know how to un-op himself
15:09
<PMantis>
jammcq: If you give me ops, I'll remove yours for you. ;)
15:10fastTalker has quit IRC
15:12
<vagrantc>
another reason the tarballs are useful is for cross-architecture support.
15:12
<jammcq>
yes
15:13
<vagrantc>
at which point it would be useful to have ltspfs
15:13
<jammcq>
I just wanna make sure the tarball is supportable. etch chroot with lenny ltspfs just worries me a bit
15:13
but you are the debian master. if you say it's the way to go, i'm which you
15:14
<vagrantc>
jammcq: well ... here's what i can do ... i can maintain a repository of backports such that you only need to add an --extra-mirror argument
15:15
<jammcq>
seems like a good plan
15:15
I've got to run out for a while, i'll try to setup the new chroot when I get back
15:15
<vagrantc>
jammcq: and i'll test that the packages work with etch before including them in the backports repository, so we're not just willy-nilly pulling stuff from lenny
15:17stillflame has quit IRC
15:18stillflame has joined #ltsp
15:24
<cliebow>
and lenny is??
15:24
<vagrantc>
etch+1
15:27
eeyk. i gotta go make food before they close the kitchen. which means no more entireweb for vagrant tonight.
15:27
morning, afternoon, and night all
15:27vagrantc has quit IRC
15:34Egyptian[Home] has quit IRC
15:38maaarek has joined #ltsp
15:39
<dem>
jammcq: do you know what happened with the load balancing stuff?
15:39
somehow i got notification it got put on the program, then it got deleted...
15:45
<cliebow>
jammcq:i hear there is a Brazilian restaurant opening that i cana see from the porch..
15:51
<dem>
also jammcq can you tell me where the brazillian place is san francisco
15:51
<Burgundavia>
dem: I know jorge has somebody working on it
16:02fernando1 has quit IRC
16:17J45p3r has joined #ltsp
16:45
<jammcq>
hey kidz
16:46
dem, the brazilian place in SanFran is called Espetus, and it's on Market, right around 12th
16:57cliebow has quit IRC
17:06Q-FUNK has quit IRC
17:07Q-FUNK has joined #ltsp
17:10cliebow has joined #ltsp
17:16fernando1 has joined #ltsp
17:20
<cliebow>
http://espetus.com/
17:20
den:http://espetus.com/
17:20
<jammcq>
yeah, cliebow knows
17:21
<cliebow>
oh my gawd..
17:21
time to turn on the barbi...second best but..
17:21spectra has joined #ltsp
17:23
<cliebow>
leaves are out...internet is intermittent..
17:41
jammcq:i hear there is a Brazilian restaurant opening that i cana see from the porch..
17:41
<jammcq>
wow
17:45stillflame has quit IRC
17:46
<PMantis>
cliebow: You need a bigger antenna. :)
17:46
I hear Pringles makes a god one.
17:46
errr good
17:47
GTG
17:47PMantis has left #LTSP
17:47PMantis has joined #LTSP
17:47PMantis has left #LTSP
17:51maaarek has quit IRC
18:23
<cliebow>
ill let you know if it meets expectations..
18:33Q-FUNK has quit IRC
19:02cliebow has quit IRC
19:33cliebow has joined #ltsp
19:43PMantis has joined #LTSP
19:46spirit67 has joined #ltsp
19:58PMantis has left #LTSP
20:11cliebow_ has joined #ltsp
20:11cliebow has quit IRC
20:13Burgundavia has quit IRC
20:14
<spirit67>
does anyone have experience with ltsp and external monitors?
20:16
laptops on docking stations in particular
20:26chupacabra has joined #ltsp
20:26ogra-classmate has quit IRC
20:28Rhez has joined #ltsp
20:29
<Rhez>
Hey, I'm not here about ltsp, but I figured people here would know the most about what I need help with. my dvd-rom isnt working, and I need to boot a DVD OS installation disk. My only other source of a dvd-rom is in my laptop, is it possible to network boot the dvd from my laptop to my pc?
20:37
<spirit67>
yes it is
20:40Burgundavia has joined #ltsp
20:47
<Rhez>
spirit67 how would I go about doing that?
20:47J45p3r has quit IRC
20:59
<Rhez>
??
21:00Rhez has quit IRC
21:02cliebow_ has quit IRC
21:07cliebow has joined #ltsp
21:07Burgundavia has quit IRC
21:08spirit67 has quit IRC
21:22ltspbot has joined #ltsp
21:23sbalneav has joined #ltsp
21:23
<sbalneav>
Evening all
21:50Burgundavia has joined #ltsp
22:38spectra has quit IRC
22:47
<chupacabra>
yo scotty
22:47
<sbalneav>
Hey chup!
22:47
<chupacabra>
hows trix?
22:47
<sbalneav>
Not bad. Just sitting here doing some coding.
22:48
<chupacabra>
you keeping those canucks in line? hehehe
22:48
<sbalneav>
Yeppers!
22:48
How's things with you?
22:48
<chupacabra>
im trying to corral these texicans
22:48
<sbalneav>
I hear you're not supposed to mess with them :)
22:49
<chupacabra>
I am one so I can get away with it. lol
22:49
cooking some chili... no beans
22:49
<sbalneav>
All meat?
22:50
<chupacabra>
yup and chilis and onions and tomatoes
22:50
and cumin
22:51
1/2 feral hog. love that meat.
22:51
<sbalneav>
Mmmm, onion.
22:51
cool.
22:51
<chupacabra>
12 kilos of meat
22:51
yall use metric right
22:53
<jammcq>
hey kidz
22:55
<sbalneav>
hey jammcq
22:56
<jammcq>
what's happening?
22:57
<sbalneav>
ugh, just trying to get an ssh to properly spawn in C.
22:58
ssh does a ton of whacky stuff with pty's, so I've had to use openpty, fork, login_tty, setsid, etc etc etc to get it to go.
22:58
<jammcq>
hmm, how does python do it?
22:59
<sbalneav>
I've got it spawning properly now, and can enter the password. So now I need to add in the stuff for doing select()'s to read/write the data.
22:59
same way, but of course, it's all done for you under the covers.
22:59
<chupacabra>
but why?
22:59
<sbalneav>
why what?
23:00
why spawn ssh?
23:00
<chupacabra>
are you trying to get ssh to properly spawn in C?
23:00
<jammcq>
do you think python did all that openpty, sesid stuff?
23:00
<sbalneav>
chupacabra: We're re-implementing it in C because the python was too slow.
23:01
jammcq: Yep, I looked at the source code under the covers.
23:01
<jammcq>
wow
23:01
<chupacabra>
ahh makes sense now
23:01
<jammcq>
is there a python module specifically for spawning ssh?
23:01
or does python always do that when spawning a sub-process?
23:02
<sbalneav>
No, they use the "subprocess" module, which spawns progams with their own controlling TTY, and all io rerouted.
23:02
If you just do a regular fork/exec, it doesn't work.
23:03ChanServ sets mode: -o jammcq
23:03
<sbalneav>
And a fork/exec/dup2 doesn't work either, because ssh does all kind of fancy stuff under to covers to FORCE you to enter the password on the tty.
23:03
<jammcq>
ah
23:04
<sbalneav>
I figured it all out by looking at both the source for the python subprocess module, and the source for the expect program :)
23:04
<jammcq>
hmm, kinda nice not having the hood welded shut, eh?
23:04
<sbalneav>
it's a lot of fancy code footwork. I've had a 3 day crash course in pty's :)
23:04
yep.
23:04
Always nice to be able to stand on the shoulders o giants.
23:05
<jammcq>
I had to do the pty, setsid stuff when I wrote the code that launches the sessions from init, in ltsp-4.x
23:05
so, at one time, I knew how to do that
23:08
<chupacabra>
beyond me
23:44sbalneav has quit IRC
23:53jsgotangco has joined #ltsp