IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 9 September 2008   (all times are UTC)

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01:36
<Pascal_1>
bonjour
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03:57
<Nubae>
cyberorg: u there?
03:58
<cyberorg>
Nubae, yes, hi :)
03:58
<Nubae>
I'm working on the last bits of the ltsp documentation, namely updating the client chroot....
03:59
on debian and ubuntu we change the chroot using sudo chroot, copy over the sources.list, and update using apt-get update and apt-get upgrade
03:59
on fedora, the same replacing with yum install
04:00
on suse I guess its zypper right?
04:00
what corresponds to sources.list on suse?
04:01
<cyberorg>
Nubae, hmm, as we have prebuilt image, people usually either download rpm and do rpm -Uvh or use yast to update from server:ltsp repo
04:01
<Nubae>
prebuilt chroot image? ie... they never change it themselves?
04:01
<cyberorg>
users can do this too if they wish to update their own image http://en.opensuse.org/LTSP/Localapps#Updating_image
04:02
Nubae, i don't see why anyone would want to change image :)
04:02
<Nubae>
heh... I can think of at least 5 reasons... just of the top of my head...
04:03
you mention them on that page even
04:03
i;-)
04:03
but the main one would be just to update the to the latest distro
04:03
<cyberorg>
Nubae, as you can see they are all taken care of quite easily
04:03
Nubae, i update prebuilt image quite frequently
04:04
<Nubae>
ok, so I can write that on suse its better to download the latest prebuilt image?
04:04
<cyberorg>
yes, that would be recommended way, other ways are listed on that wiki link
04:04
<Nubae>
the adendum should include something about local apps and low fat/fat clients
04:05
both require modifications to the client chroot, unless u have prebuilt images for those scenarios too
04:06
<cyberorg>
Nubae, as doing chroot, run update and then mksquashfs takes just as long as recreating image, we do not have any package management installed inside the image
04:06
for some people just getting rpm update from the server is even faster
04:10
<Nubae>
right, but that doesnt answer my question about local apps and low fat clients
04:11
<cyberorg>
Nubae, that would be same as here: http://en.opensuse.org/LTSP/Localapps
04:12
they can keep running "kiwi-ltsp-setup -s" at regualar interval if they have update repository added to their image description
04:13
so nothing extra needs to be done, just rebuilding image once in a while will keep it up to date
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04:14
<Nubae>
ok, think I get it... u dont use package management, but allow a predefined number of packages to be added via the lts.conf file?
04:14
<cyberorg>
Nubae, you can just mention that "rebuilding image with update repository enabled in /usr/share/kiwi/images/ltsp/suse-11.0/config.xml will update the image"
04:15
<Nubae>
works quite differently than on other stuff so having trouble getting my head around it
04:15
<cyberorg>
Nubae, additional packages can be added via /etc/sysconfig/kiwi-ltsp and rebuilding image
04:15
Nubae, it is rather simple, "just rebuild to update"
04:16
<Nubae>
we dont have this on the other distros - /etc/sysconfig/kiwi-ltsp
04:16
its used for rebuilding and updating chroot?
04:16
is it just a list of packages?
04:17
<cyberorg>
Nubae, it is a central config file for building ltsp image
04:17
<Nubae>
oook... think I gotcha now...
04:17
<cyberorg>
it stores variables that are used when building image, like adding apps, paths, network config etc
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04:18
<cyberorg>
so user dont have to mess with dhcpd.conf, just just edit this one file and run kiwi-ltsp-setup -d to configure it
04:18
https://forgesvn1.novell.com/viewsvn/kiwi-ltsp/trunk/kiwi-ltsp/ltsp/suse-11.0/kiwi-ltsp?revision=270&view=markup
04:18
that is how it looks like :)
04:19
various switches: http://forgeftp.novell.com/kiwi-ltsp/kiwi-ltsp-diagram.png
04:19
<ace_suares>
nyone on how many and what type of servers I need for 65 clients ?
04:19
<Nubae>
hmmm... so if in local apps... u add suse-desktop its like a fat client?
04:20
ace_suares: preferably 2, but can be done with one
04:20
<cyberorg>
Nubae, for local app user just adds list of packages to install in /etc/sysconfig/kiwi-ltsp LOCAL_APPS variable, rebuild image and they get installed
04:20
<ace_suares>
Nubae: so, OpenOffice, Firefox, and CrossOver with MS Publisher can run 2 'servers' with 65 clients ????
04:21
<Nubae>
right... but if someone wanted a full fat client
04:21
ie, everything running locally
04:21
<ace_suares>
ans what ki9nd of servers core2duo ?
04:21
<Nubae>
xeon processors for that setup
04:21
<cyberorg>
Nubae, that would not be ltsp client at all then :)
04:21
<Nubae>
for crossover
04:21
and lots of ram
04:21
<ace_suares>
yeah lots of ram
04:22
would you cluster the machines ? or just have 32 on one server and 33 on the other server ?
04:22
<Nubae>
cyberorg: why not, u are running it from a central location... its just ltsp fat client instead of thin
04:22
<cyberorg>
Nubae, kiwi can create those kind of images too, including network installation images
04:22
Nubae, just the image would be mounted from the server then, right?
04:22
<Nubae>
ace_suares: if u have the choice... set up 2 servers
04:23
<ace_suares>
Nubae: seperately then ///
04:23
what about users, how do you share them with all servers ? and homedirs
04:23
<Nubae>
ace_suares: hmm... use ldap
04:24
<ace_suares>
Nubae: okay
04:24
Nubae: good thinking!
04:24
Hvae you set up ltsp somewhere? how many clients?
04:24
<Nubae>
ace_suares: I have, approx. 150 clients
04:25
cyberorg: more or less, except its a customised chroot depending on what kind of apps, etc they want... with central authentication via ldap and home share via nfs
04:25
so its not totally fat client
04:26
<cyberorg>
Nubae, i haven't worked on such setup but it should be easily possible
04:26
<Nubae>
cyberorg: how do you do kiosk?
04:26
<cyberorg>
Nubae, i just work on ltsp part, no low fat :)
04:26
<Nubae>
cyberorg: just wondering if all this can be done from your central kiwi-ltsp file
04:27
<cyberorg>
Nubae, yes it can be, if someone requests it
04:27
<Nubae>
well, I'm not the only one interested I'm sure...
04:27
ldap inside the client and nfs shared home is all the image needs
04:28
<cyberorg>
Nubae, if you want please file an enhancement request, i'll try and do such setup, something that work out of box ;)
04:28
<ace_suares>
Nubae: and how many serbers
04:29
<Nubae>
cyberorg: right now I load 2 seperate chroots one for normal thin clients and another that loads what I've just described
04:30
but its a pain in the ass because I've had to really modify the chroot (get sound, printing working, share home structure, specialised apps [crossover, ms stuff], ldap)
04:30
ace_suares: I'm running one right now, but have tried with several
04:30
works better with several, one point of failure is never good
04:30
but its easier to maintain :-)
04:31
<ace_suares>
Nubae: one server, 150 thin clcients, using office and firefox? gnome of somehting lighter ?
04:31
<Nubae>
cyberorg: did u mention the centralised config file to general ltsp... seems like it would be useful
04:32
ace_suares: its a quad core server with xeon processors and 16 gigs of ram
04:32
<cyberorg>
Nubae, many times, that is one of the core of what we are doing, user does not have to hunt for stuff to change, we should just one one config which deals with everything related to our setup
04:33
<Nubae>
regular ubuntu on it, but with serious limitations to flash and website usage (ie... very strict dansguardian rules)
04:33
cyberorg: how have they reacted to integrating into central ltsp 5?
04:33
<cyberorg>
just one config and one command to everything
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04:34
<cyberorg>
Nubae, upstream feels the current plugin system works well for everyone without single command and single config file
04:34
<Nubae>
ah :-)
04:35
<cyberorg>
Nubae, that reminds me, this is also one of the reason we don't keep mentioning ltsp-build-client and all ltsp commands even though we have them as wrapper to kiwi-ltsp-setup script
04:35
<ogra>
Nubae, apart from the fact that the config file wouldnt have anything to do with the plugin system :)
04:35
<cyberorg>
me as administrator just want to learn one command
04:36
<ogra>
what such a config file would do is set the values ofr teh options ltsp-build-client --extra-help shows
04:36
<Nubae>
yeah I see the usefulness, but its a dramatic change from the way things have been done till now
04:36
<ogra>
its not
04:37
you would just set the values to options of ltsp-build-client
04:37
<johnny>
i personally don't really use the plugins , i just pass em to my builder
04:37
<cyberorg>
ogra, so why dont we put --extra-help in a config file?
04:37
<johnny>
--extra-help is just a list
04:37
the options can come from a config file
04:37
the scripts read in /etc/ltsp/ltsp-build-client.conf and can preset the values
04:37
<ogra>
cyberorg, feel free to write a wrapper to ltsp-build-client
04:37
<Nubae>
ogra: except the dhcp stuff
04:37
<johnny>
i think that is the name anyways..
04:38
all the run time stuff is in lts.conf tho
04:38
<ogra>
Nubae, right, because you likely break distro rules by blindly changing dhcpd.conf
04:38
<cyberorg>
ogra, if i knew all distros as well as i do suse and could code a bit too :)
04:38
<ogra>
or at least end up with very upset admins if their config *just changes*
04:38
cyberorg, no
04:38
<johnny>
oh. yeah. we would never support such a thing on gentoo :)
04:38
<Nubae>
maybe I'm misunderstanding... but if cyberorg is saying a centralised config file is all one needs to touch... and it doesnt break stuff... its a good thing, no?
04:39
<ogra>
you dont need to know any distro for a wrapper around ltsp-build-client
04:39
thats the point i'm trying to get across to you since months
04:39
<johnny>
a wrapper around?
04:39
<cyberorg>
ogra, the script i could write was about 15 lines, captain_magnus made it really usable
04:39
<ogra>
johnny, to seed the options with values from a config
04:39
<johnny>
that already works?
04:39
i could swear it does
04:39
<ogra>
johnny, might even be
04:40
<johnny>
every ltsp command reads in /etc/ltsp/$commandname.conf
04:40
that i can remmeber
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04:41
<ogra>
i never use that ... but vagrant might have added such a thing
04:41
<johnny>
i know you don't.. :)
04:42
<ogra>
but if it wouldnt be there it would be a five line wrapper :)
04:42
whithout *any* distro specific knowledge
04:42
<johnny>
ogra, .. i have some distro specific options...
04:42
<cyberorg>
ogra, if a new admin takes over the server, how would he know what exact options the ltsp server was built with? passing options at commandline are lost, but the config file would still be around
04:42
<johnny>
like MAKEOPTS
04:43
<ogra>
johnny, we all have *some* bt the majority is identical through our common frontend
04:43
<Nubae>
cyberorg: plus its centralised... one location to do all configuration
04:43
<johnny>
Nubae, that already works
04:43
or should
04:43
<ogra>
cyberorg, feel free to implement such a thing if vagrnat hasnt already
04:43
<johnny>
as far as any option that ltsp-build-client accepts
04:44
any ${VAR} in any of the ltsp-* scripts should work with it
04:44
<ogra>
but if johnny says it exists you might even be able to seed just the plugin configs
04:44
<Nubae>
johnny: and where is that config file held?
04:44
<ogra>
in /etc/ltsp
04:44
<johnny>
Nubae, i just told you? :)
04:44
/etc/ltsp/${commandname}.conf
04:44
<Nubae>
k sorry gotcha
04:45
<cyberorg>
ogra, ltsp does not deal with tftp, nfs, xinetd, dhcpd configuration so there wont be much that could go in there, as you mentioned some time back you are not interested in ltsp-server-initialize kind of thing at all
04:45
<ogra>
cyberorg, it doesnt because thats massively evil
04:45
<cyberorg>
the central config we are using has configuration for those services too
04:45
<Nubae>
cyberorg: dhcp config is already in there
04:46
<ogra>
if you hd a running tftp and dhcp setup in your network and would be an amdmin, would you like if installing a package breaks your network ?
04:46
<Nubae>
well, linking to a set of config files to make a bigger config file is all that is right?
04:46
<ogra>
not really
04:46
yu need a parser
04:47
<Nubae>
ah right
04:47
<cyberorg>
ogra, no, that is why there are various switches, they are immensely useful for admins who do not know what services are required or how to configure them
04:47
<johnny>
pl// ot dpesm
04:47
<ogra>
and the only thing you actually need to adjust is dhcpd.conf
04:47
i dont see why you would break the distros setup for tftp or nbd
04:47
cyberorg, but thats already all done automatically
04:47
you *dont touch* tftp
04:48
its run by inetd ...
04:48
inetd *is set up automatically* by the scripts already
04:48
<Nubae>
a switch for nbd or nfs makes a little sense though
04:48
<johnny>
with nbdroot
04:48
and such
04:48
<ogra>
the *only thing* you change is dhcpd.conf
04:48
<cyberorg>
ogra, tftpd is disabled by default, so we do it from our wrapper script
04:48
<johnny>
Nubae, that exists,.. in the chroot
04:48
<ogra>
Nubae, the switch is there already
04:48
<cyberorg>
ogra, http://forgeftp.novell.com/kiwi-ltsp/kiwi-ltsp-diagram.png
04:49
<ogra>
cyberorg, because you dont use the upstream toold
04:49
tools
04:49
all you need to adjust with ltsp us dhcpd.conf on all distros using the upstream setup
04:49
<Nubae>
so what suse has is a parser on top of everything that sends variables to various configuration files
04:50
<johnny>
and enable tftp in his case
04:50
<ogra>
right, suse uses its own distro specific frontend
04:50
kiwi-ltsp is like yast for ltsp
04:50
<johnny>
not that big of a deal to say enable tftp..
04:50
<cyberorg>
yeah https://forgesvn1.novell.com/viewsvn/kiwi-ltsp/trunk/kiwi-ltsp/ltsp/suse-11.0/kiwi-ltsp-functions.sh?revision=266&view=markup
04:50
the one ogra calls monolithic monster :)
04:50
<ogra>
without using ltsp actually
04:51
which is what jammcq and i are discussing with zonker since a month
04:51
<Nubae>
well, from the admin end, I can see why it would be useful to just edit one file
04:51
<ogra>
in the hope to get a kiwi and an opensuse dev to the BTS to solve it
04:51
<johnny>
editing files?
04:51
where's the point and click?
04:51
lol
04:52
<Nubae>
yeah its a bit of a pickle... :-) right now, cant add kiwi-ltsp stuff to documention, its too different
04:52
<cyberorg>
ogra, you guys would have to put some pressure to get someone over, i have been trying since long time, can't seem to get anyone interested
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06:12
<ogra>
DRBL surely also has companies that offer commercial support
06:12
<cyberorg>
ogra, novell decision makers who do not see benefit in supporting ltsp are unfortunately making a big mistake
06:12
<ogra>
cyberorg, yes, but hey already have their product and dont want to cannibalize it
06:13
<Nubae>
yeah... ndiyo.org has been doing that for a while now
06:13
<cyberorg>
ogra, they should learn from unilever example ;)
06:13
<ogra>
if i would be bound to something my company invested in like SuSE/Novell did i would do the same
06:13
simply because yu would burn a lot of money
06:14
once you make the decision to go your own way and money is involved, changing stuff is difficult and expensive
06:14
<Nubae>
but not impossible
06:14
see apple :-)
06:14
<ogra>
so i can totally understand that Novell wants to protect their investment
06:15
(that indeed doesnt explain why OpenSuse doesnt jump in on ltsp though :) )
06:15
<cyberorg>
ogra, to spare one dev even part time for such a big corporation should not be a big deal, if it gives their customer more choice to me it seems to be a sound thing to do
06:15
<ogra>
it indeed is from a community POV
06:15
<Nubae>
cyberorg: but they won't and the reason is they have their own technology
06:15
<ogra>
but these companies are management driven and have to make their revenue
06:16
<Nubae>
unless the thing starts failing
06:16
then u will see how quick they junp to support ltsp
06:17
<cyberorg>
Nubae, they are not at all working on diskless thin clients, they are more concentrated on wyse, HP and such TC with embedded OS with citrix client or something like that, very "enterprise" :)
06:17
<ogra>
cyberorg, imagine you are manager ... you have a dev who gets in $150/h if you sell his coding power to a customer who wants a customized thin client solution ...
06:21
<cyberorg>
ogra, they don't understand the purpose of ltsp then, ltsp just is not competing product to their offerings
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06:22
<cyberorg>
it adds value to their claim that they are the best in TC business
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06:27
<Q-FUNK>
ogra: would you happen to know what are the rules for using the ubuntu logo in 3rd-party documents or have a URL to a document that explains this?
06:27
<ogra>
Q-FUNK, not really ... we ahve a mail address for it afaik
06:28
Q-FUNK, http://www.ubuntu.com/aboutus/trademarkpolicy
06:28
trademarks@ubuntu.com
06:35
hmm
06:35
so our next release is called jaunty jackalope
06:39
<Nubae>
jaunty... lol
06:39
<johnny>
yeah f'real
06:39
lol
06:39
that sounds like ogra's new nickname
06:39
<ogra>
heh
06:39
<johnny>
he is jaunty at least
06:40
<Nubae>
jackalope isnt a real animal....
06:40
<johnny>
lol
06:40
uhmm.. i think only people who watched funniest videos with dave couiller
06:40
know what a jackalope is
06:40
lol
06:40
<ogra>
in germany its a quite ancient "non" animal
06:41
and pretty popular as well
06:41
i think it comes from a fairytale
06:42
<kwak>
anyone knows how to use newusers command to add batch users?
06:42
<ogra>
http://de.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Bild:Wolpertinger.jpg&filetimestamp=20080829140408
06:42
<johnny>
FOUND IT
06:42
<ogra>
from albrecht duerer ...
06:42
<johnny>
or one of em
06:42
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=By9sHP1MWVk
06:42
Nubae, watch it ..
06:42
<ogra>
drawn at 1502 ad
06:43
<Nubae>
:-)
06:44
too weird
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06:47
<johnny>
it was a skit in America's Funniest People 15 years ago or so
06:47
or something like that
06:48
dave uhmm.. coullier hosted it (can't remember the spelling)
06:48
if you're familiar with alanis morrisette.. you'd know him as the guy she wrote that really nasty song about :)
06:49
she was worldwide iirc..
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06:51
<Nubae>
heh yeah I know the song
06:53
<johnny>
btw.. he was also joey on full house.. if you ever saw that show..
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07:47
<lejo>
johnny: with the 'now' hot twins ;P
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07:48
<johnny>
lol
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08:08
<klos>
is it possible to run LTSP with compiz, so you could get the effects from the client ?
08:08
if the client supports graphics acceleration
08:09
*on the client
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09:38
<ace_suares>
klos: yes, i think so. Depends on the graphics card of the client
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10:27
<sbalneav>
Morning all
10:29
<ogra>
!s
10:29
<ltspbot>
ogra: "s" is Scotty!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
10:29
<ogra>
hey sbalneav
10:29
did you subscribe me to the SRU bug for ldm ?
10:30
<sbalneav>
Haven't done it yet, ran into a printing problem
10:30
Say
10:30
<ogra>
ah
10:30
<sbalneav>
I've fixed a bug in upstream CUPS
10:30
<ogra>
cool
10:30
<sbalneav>
Multi-tray printing was/is broooooken badly for openoffice
10:31
turns out the pstops filter was busted
10:31
<ogra>
tkkamppeter is the cups guy in #ubuntu-devel
10:31
though cups abandoned ps with the new release afaik
10:31
<sbalneav>
Wonder what would be the process of getting that .... what?!?!
10:31
<ogra>
its all pdf now
10:32
<sbalneav>
But the PRINTER doesn't understand pdfs
10:32
it only understands postscript
10:32
<ogra>
but i might be wrong, till of pitti can tell you about that i guess
10:32
<sbalneav>
hm
10:32
ok, maybe I need to file an SRU for that other bug as well.
10:32
<ogra>
afaik cups expects pdf as input format
10:33
all apps are being changed atm ... i.e. oo.o, gnome-print libs etc
10:34
<sbalneav>
Hmm, well I better check to see if multi-bin printing works on that.
10:35
<ogra>
i just printed something today on intrepid and didnt find any issues ...
10:35
but then i just plug in my HP USB printers to my lappie
10:36
without much special feature usage
10:36
oh, tkkamppeter is just around in -devel btw
10:37
<Nubae>
can someone post an example dhcpd.conf file with mac addresses and subgroups (for documention)
10:37
<ogra>
uhg
10:37* ogra never ever uses that or poposes that ...
10:38
<Nubae>
its mentioned in the documentation, but needs an example to make sense
10:38
<ogra>
i'D just point guys who want such a complicated setup to read a dhcp book i guess
10:38
<Nubae>
I didnt add that
10:38
heh, that's a bit extreme, dontcha think?
10:38
<ogra>
its really something you sholdnt play with without having the necessary background knowledge
10:39
<Nubae>
ok, then I take out adding static entries to dhcpd.conf ?
10:40
<ogra>
no, mention it but also mention that users wanting that should collect the necessary dhcp knowledge first
10:44
<Nubae>
k
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10:58
<cyberorg>
ogra, what are the hackfest dates?
10:58
<ogra>
early november, jammcq can tell you the exact dates
10:58
<cyberorg>
is the details posted on wiki somewhere?
10:58
ah, ok
10:59
jammcq, ping
10:59
<ogra>
it should, but dont ask me :)
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11:00
<jammcq>
cyberorg: pong
11:00
sbalneav: Scotty !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
11:01
<cyberorg>
jammcq, got it, 6 Nov, maine
11:01
<jammcq>
ah
11:01
yeah, today i'll pin it down for sure. Gotta call the motel to reserve the whole place
11:01
is Nov 6-9 good for everyone?
11:01
<sbalneav>
yep
11:02* ogra thinks so
11:03
<ogra>
though i didnt book yet
11:07
<jammcq>
ok, we have the hotel
11:07
they have 20 rooms and they're all open
11:07
I'll pin down the costs later today. last year, the rate was $60/nite
11:08
some people might like to have their own room, others may want to share the room, splitting the cost
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11:13* ogra doesnt care
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11:42
<Q-FUNK>
where at?
11:42
ah, maine
11:43
any way these meetings could be held outside USA, every once in a while?
11:44
<laga>
as much as i'd like to make fun for people not wanting to go to the US.. they're right ;)
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12:58
<brendan_>
i am trying to turn off ssh tunneling on an ltsp-5 install. i know i saw it on the web the other day, but now for some reason i can't find it...i know it's just one line in the lts.conf, but, what is that line?
12:58
<vagrantc>
LDM_DIRECTX=True
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12:59
<brendan_>
haha
12:59
thanks
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15:51
<ace_suares>
q-funk, r u there ????
15:51
q-funk slaes question !
15:51
q-funk sales question !
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15:55
<wwx>
:-)
15:55
looks like you try to wake him up
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15:56
<Q-FUNK>
re
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15:56
<Q-FUNK>
ace_suares: wassup? :)
15:58
<ace_suares>
hey man !
15:59
how are you. I am making a quote for a 65 thin client system. I try to get thin can in there too. The latest model, what does it cost ?
15:59
teh dbe62
16:00
and what about RDP can it do RDP too ?
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16:01
<ace_suares>
Q-funk !?
16:03
<Q-FUNK>
RDP is a separate issue
16:03
<ace_suares>
win ce costs extra ?
16:03
<Q-FUNK>
yup
16:03
<ace_suares>
so what costs dbe62 with only pxe and what wit win ce ?
16:03
<warren>
Q-FUNK: so about that missing button...
16:03
<ace_suares>
hi warren :-)
16:03
<Q-FUNK>
LOL
16:04
ace_suares: for this, better request a quote via my artec mail :)
16:04
<ace_suares>
can't you PM me ? I jus tneed a ballpark they will contact you via maill
16:08
<warren>
Q-FUNK: dude, you can totally sell buttons
16:08
Q-FUNK: you're saying no to money =)
16:08
<Q-FUNK>
warren: I brought the idea up. was totally laughed at
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16:08
<warren>
hahah
16:09
Q-FUNK: they don't think people would buy it?
16:09
Q-FUNK: sure it is funny, but people would seriously buy it.
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16:16
<wwx>
yep, i'll take two
16:17
one with green and one with yellow led, so then it's visible that at least power is switched on
16:18
don't know yet which color i prefer
16:18
:)
16:33
<warren>
it makes a screeching noise until you turn it off
16:36
<wwx>
yes, additional fan noise emulation option
16:37
then it looks much more powerful than it was
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21:05
<sbalneav>
Evening all
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21:30
<sbalneav>
Hello again!
21:30
Whoohoo!
21:30
Processor and ram upgrade complete
21:33
Now I've got the Core 2 Duo 8500 with the VT extentions, so I can properly play around with KVM or Xen
21:42
<warren>
sbalneav: woo hoo
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23:48
<stgraber>
sbalneav: yeah, will be a lot easier to do VM testing now :)
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