IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 13 January 2012   (all times are UTC)

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12:55
<VectorX>
few questions on the topic\
12:56
so i got one client machine booting up, got a switch, plugged in the server to port 1, and the client to another port, what configuration do i need to do for it to boot up now ?
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13:07
<VectorX>
sorry got d/c
13:09
so i got 2 clients plugged in, one boots up and the other says "PXE-E61 Media test failure, check cable" at boot init
13:09
i switched the cable so that can be ruled out
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13:24
<alkisg>
!gpxe | echo VectorX
13:24
<ltsp`>
VectorX gpxe: the successor to etherboot (http://etherboot.org). To download bootable floppy, cd, usb, kernel etc images, visit http://rom-o-matic.net/
13:24
<alkisg>
You can try that, it produces much better error messages
13:28
<VectorX>
i am wondering if the lan itself went bust, the lights are not coming on
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13:33
<VectorX>
actually i just plugged it in directly to the server again and its working
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13:51
<VectorX>
tried a different type of cable and it worked
13:55
where can i find info on setting up the client image ?
13:55
with software
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14:04
<lipinski>
Anyone have any luck with LTSP on Ubuntu Oneiric (11.10)? My client does not have a launcher..
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14:06
<alkisg>
VectorX: do you mean localapps? or fat clients?
14:06
lipinski: it works fine here, yes
14:06
<lipinski>
just a standard LTSP install.
14:07
Everything was working on older Ubuntu. I upgraded to 11.10, then ran ltsp-build-client to get the new client image built.
14:07
<alkisg>
What is your problem?
14:07
<lipinski>
When the client starts up, I get the desktop, but there is no launcher "bar" or anything. So, I can't start any programs.
14:07
I had to Ctrl-Alt-T to get a terminal and kick off a program that way.
14:08
Same as this person: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1870857
14:08
<alkisg>
Maybe your graphics card can't handle unity, try with unity-2d or with the gnome fallback session
14:08
Run unity from that terminal
14:08
(or unity-2d, etc etc) to see if it works
14:08
<lipinski>
ok - will give a try. back in a few
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14:10
<alkisg>
dgroos: hey, did it work?
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14:11
<lipinski>
yes - unity died.
14:11
so I ran unity-2d-launcher and that got me a launcher bar.
14:11
<alkisg>
Search the mailing list archives, there's a note there about selecting unity-2d
14:11
<lipinski>
excellent - thanks.
14:12
<alkisg>
lipinski: something like that, but for unity-2d:
14:12
!classic-gnome
14:12
<ltsp`>
alkisg: classic-gnome: To set classic-gnome as the default session instead of Unity in Ubuntu >= 11.04, put LDM_XSESSION="gnome-session --session=classic-gnome" in lts.conf
14:15
<lipinski>
I can't find how to set Unity-2d.
14:15
I see the LDM_XSESSION line for lts.conf for using gnome classic
14:16
This?:
14:16
LDM_DIRECTX=True
14:16
LDM_SESSION=”gnome-session –session=ubuntu-2d”
14:19
<alkisg>
Probably
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14:25
<lipinski>
ok - going to try that. Thanks all for thje help
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16:06
<alkisg>
dgroos, dgroos_, dgroos1: if you can give me remote access to one of your clients, I can try to see why you're getting gray icons...
16:08
<dgroos__>
alkisg: hmmm… let me think how I can do that remotely--launching a virtual box fat client on the server?
16:09
The problem with that is that the keyboard map is messed up when I do that through NX to the server...
16:10
<alkisg>
dgroos__: sure, a vbox fat client would be fine
16:10
Which nx server are you using?
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16:10
<dgroos_>
openNX
16:11
as the client.
16:11
<alkisg>
Anyway I can get access to the VM with rdesktop too (vbox supports that)
16:12
So I don't think the keyboard map will be an issue
16:12
<dgroos1>
OK, it's started... what was that command to connect, again?
16:13
<alkisg>
x11vnc -noshm -connect alkisg.dyndns.org
16:15
<dgroos1>
'k, I just logged in to the vm fat client
16:17
<alkisg>
Thanks, let's see...
16:19
dgroos1: wait, the plan is to run epoptes on a fat client?
16:19
<dgroos_>
right
16:20
<alkisg>
Ah, I only copied the client certificate, that won't do then...
16:21
Ah #2, and you'll be using remoteapps to launch epoptes from the fat client?
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16:22
<alkisg>
dgroos_: epoptes isn't installed in your chroot... but that's ok, remoteapps is a good approach to do that
16:22
<dgroos_>
Well, we did that, but I seem to remember that changing with the newer version of epoptes
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16:23
<dgroos_>
(from a couple of months ago)
16:24
<alkisg>
You *could* have all the other fat clients connect to a specific fat client which the teacher uses,
16:24
<dgroos_>
I think it was no longer needed since one didn't need to sudo to launch epoptes since the user group was defined in the prefs...
16:24
<alkisg>
but you'd need that fat client to have a static IP or dns name,
16:24
and if you have a mixed-mode network, gigabit on the server and 100mbps on the clients, you'd lose the gigabit speed
16:25
So in general I prefer the remoteapps approach
16:25
<dgroos_>
so remote apps still the best way? Right, that was it as well.
16:25
<alkisg>
I don't remember suggesting something else to you...
16:25
So yeah let's stick to remoteapps
16:25
<dgroos_>
OK, let me resurrect my memory on this.
16:25
sure :D
16:25
<alkisg>
So... now, you launched a fat client and you ran epoptes
16:25
...where did you find epoptes, if not on the server?!
16:25
It's not installed in the chroot
16:26
<dgroos_>
?
16:26
<alkisg>
epoptes and epoptes-client get installed in the server
16:26
Only epoptes-client gets installed in the chroot
16:26
So you can't run epoptes from a fat client
16:26
<dgroos_>
I think this VM I just launched is a fat not thin client...
16:26
<alkisg>
Unless you already use remoteapps
16:26
(or if the VM is a thin client)
16:27
<dgroos_>
OK…
16:28
OK can you type into the vm the ltsp-remoteapps epoptes command?
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16:28
<dgroos_>
my keymap….
16:29
:D
16:29
<alkisg>
Hehe
16:30
I think we had modified the epoptes.desktop file to run remotely
16:30
Or we put an /home/username/bin/epoptes override to do that
16:30
<dgroos_>
Wouldn't epoptes work on the server?
16:30
yes
16:30
<alkisg>
Because I see the gnome-terminal having a different hostname (the fat client one),
16:30
from epoptes, which says the server hostname in the title bar
16:31
So anyway... outside the VM, are you on the server?
16:31
So, can you run epoptes there?
16:32
If you manage to type `setxkbmap us`, you'll fix the keyboard map problems :)
16:32
<dgroos_>
yes, but grayed out as well as well…
16:32
I'll do that! in the terminal? w/sudo?
16:33
<alkisg>
Without sudo
16:33
In a terminal inside the nx session
16:33
<dgroos_>
'k
16:33
<alkisg>
Maybe middle click (for copy/paste) will work with your NX client
16:33
<dgroos_>
Yes!
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16:37
<dgroos_>
thanks for trying!
16:39
<alkisg>
dgroos_ you can enable rdp for that vbox client
16:39
And use rdesktop to access it
16:40
...but it goes too far... if I had ssh access, I could do it from here, but maybe it's too much to ask
16:40
Maybe postpone it for when you're on-site?
16:40
<dgroos_>
The deal is that to get access to the server I have to go through VPN
16:41
I don't mind doing this.
16:41
<alkisg>
OK, let's go private...
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16:59
<alkisg>
dgroos_: I'm going to assume that after we regenerated the server certificate, we didn't restart the epoptes daemon
17:00
<dgroos_>
I didn't restart the server...
17:00
<alkisg>
...so it kept running from Jan 10, with the old certificate, thus rejecting new connections that had the new certificate
17:00
<dgroos_>
right.
17:00
<alkisg>
I was supposed to run `sudo service epoptes restart` after regenerating the openssl key yesterday
17:00
<dgroos_>
I didn't think of that.
17:00
<alkisg>
I don't remember if I did, I'll assume not
17:00
<dgroos_>
I don't remember you doing that.
17:01
<alkisg>
So until you notice any other problems, I'll ...close the case :P
17:01
(left vnc)
17:01
<dgroos_>
Thanks for your help again!!!
17:01
so, remote apps the way to go on the fat clients?
17:02
<alkisg>
np, thanks for being a beta tester ;)
17:02
Yes
17:02
That's what we have the desktop icon for
17:02
But you can also override it with an /home/username/bin/epoptes wrapper
17:02
<dgroos_>
I live somewhere between alpha and beta in my life :)
17:02
<alkisg>
So that it works with the normal icon from the gnome menu
17:03
...with the following contents:
17:03
#!/bin/sh
17:03
ltsp-remoteapps /usr/bin/epoptes
17:04* alkisg goes on to prepare the certificate solution...
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17:05
<dgroos_>
have fun!
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17:21
<dgroos_>
alkisg:
17:22
<alkisg>
yup?
17:22
<dgroos_>
alkisg: (hit that enter key too quickly…)
17:22
<alkisg>
Hehe
17:22
Go on
17:23
<dgroos_>
OK, fyi I was on the client, ran /usr/sbin/epoptes-client and then when I control-C it I disconnected from epoptes which was running on the server.
17:24
Not that I figure a student would figure that out :)
17:25
<alkisg>
dgroos_: any user can kill epoptes-client, yeah. In the future we want to make it a session master, so if they kill it, their session dies :P
17:25
(otherwise we'd have to run it as root and we don't want that)
17:25
<dgroos_>
right.
17:25
<vagrantc>
should be pretty easy to make it a master session
17:25
<alkisg>
vagrantc: the certificate generated by default by openssl is only valid for 1 month, so epoptes installations have started not working... I'm thinking of doing this on the next version to fix it:
17:25
On postinst, if we're upgrading a "broken" epoptes version, we regenerate the certificate and make it last for 10 years, and display a debconf NOTE to the user, to notify him that the certificate was regenerated and that he should copy it to his chroot or his clients. Does that sound OK, postinst-wise?
17:26
<vagrantc>
alkisg: sure
17:26
<alkisg>
Thanks :)
17:26
<vagrantc>
although i'd go more with 5 years, but whatever.
17:26
<alkisg>
5, no problem
17:27
<dgroos_>
Does that solution relate to making it so that if a student shuts down the computer when it is in lock-out mode, then restarts and re-logs in it will go back to the lock-out mode?
17:27
That's a pretty big feature.
17:28
<alkisg>
dgroos_: no, that too is planned, but it's unrelated
17:28
<dgroos_>
ah.
17:28
<alkisg>
Do you think it's very significant?
17:28
I'd just re-lock any users that logoff...
17:29
<dgroos_>
assuming I'm monitoring that and not in the middle of some instructional move.
17:29
<alkisg>
True
17:30
<dgroos_>
and students know when to try things :) they are smart like us all :)
17:30
<alkisg>
The way we arrange the classrooms, the teacher always sees the physical student screens
17:31
So I keep forgetting that there are other classroom arrangements too
17:31
<dgroos_>
Really, there is a standard layout?
17:31
<alkisg>
There is some literature about how it's best done, yes,
17:31
<dgroos_>
We do it however here. Of course my screens are under the table top :)
17:31
<alkisg>
but almost all labs here use a pi-shaped layout
17:32
<dgroos_>
π-shaped?
17:32
<alkisg>
3 sides computers, 4th rectangle side == teacher
17:32
Hehe, yup, π-shaped :)
17:32
That's how we call it
17:32
<dgroos_>
sure
17:33
It wouldn't work here as we often need more clients available--there is usually rows in the middle was well.
17:33
*as
17:33
<alkisg>
You must have larger labs than us :)
17:33
<dgroos_>
more like a pie with filling ;)
17:34
30 + clients I think, sometimes.
17:34
<alkisg>
Ouch. Each student has his own PC?
17:35
We usually have 12 clients and < 20 students
17:35
<dgroos_>
Often. There is national-mandated testing and it is now done on computers.
17:35
<alkisg>
(we split classes with 30 students to two, when they go to the computer lab)
17:35
<dgroos_>
less than 20 students?
17:35
OK
17:35
Who supervises the half that stays back?
17:36
<alkisg>
They do another lesson
17:36
<dgroos_>
on their own?
17:36
<alkisg>
No, with a teacher
17:36
So class A gets split into A1 and A2
17:36
<dgroos_>
Oh, so there is a computer lab teacher?
17:36
<alkisg>
A1 does some computer lesson,
17:36
and A2 does some technology lesson
17:37
And some other day in the same week they do the opposite
17:37
<dgroos_>
Sure, makes tons of sense, I was just wondering how you manage it with teachers.
17:37
<alkisg>
The same happens with gymnastics and english language teachers
17:38
<dgroos_>
So these teachers have half-sized classes?
17:38
<alkisg>
Class A gets splitted into "A-students advanced in english" and "A-students with only basic english knowledge"
17:39
<dgroos_>
We don't spend that much money on that many teachers. :(
17:39
<alkisg>
So it's easier for the english teacher to do a lessson without half of the students getting bored
17:39
<dgroos_>
for sure.
17:39
<alkisg>
I think, relatively speaking, we're getting paid better too... but I fear that's going to change
17:39
E.g. a teacher gets about the same money as a programmer or a sysadmin etc
17:40
<dgroos_>
I've been thinking of you as I read our newspapers about the goings-on in Greece.
17:41
Sounds tough.
17:41* alkisg has given up on catching up with the news... and just waits for the crisis to be over
17:41
<alkisg>
Yes, they cut about 1/4 of our salaries
17:41
<dgroos_>
wow!
17:42
<alkisg>
So it's pretty hard, especially for families where only one parents works
17:43
<dgroos_>
for sure, that puts more pressure for more families to have both parents gone working and that's harder for the family.
17:43
Your wife work outside the home?
17:44
<alkisg>
She's an english teacher
17:44
<dgroos_>
:)
17:44
<alkisg>
So we're ok yet, even with 3 kids
17:44
<dgroos_>
:)
17:44
<alkisg>
But we can't put aside any money any longer, whatever we make, we spend
17:45
<dgroos_>
wow and imagine those with 1 paid-working adult in a family system...
17:45
<alkisg>
Yeah my cousin, taxi-driver, even had to go on strike for 1 month, so they had no income whatsoever... _that_ is hard :-/
17:46
<mistik1>
The sad part of all this is that the crisis state of the world is just begining
17:46
<alkisg>
What I haven't figured out yet, is who is pushing that crisis
17:46
<dgroos_>
?
17:47
<alkisg>
Economic crises don't just "happen", do they?
17:47
Someone must be pulling the strings somewhere...
17:47
<mistik1>
The worlds economy is off balance, too few has been making too much for far too long
17:48
<dgroos_>
I know that my car can break down when I'm driving even when I don't do something stupid or malicious...
17:48
<mistik1>
if one guy can take 800 billion out of an economy how much can he posibly put back in
17:48
<dgroos_>
mistik1: so true!
17:48
<mistik1>
The world cannot sustain in that manner
17:50
<dgroos_>
bbl
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17:57* vagrantc would say the illusion of the many economic shell games are starting to show through
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18:00
<vagrantc>
alkisg: so, planning on making a bugfix release for epoptes, then?
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18:26
<alkisg>
vagrantc: no, Phantomas has the groups feature ready and it only needs some debugging, so I'll wait for that, I guess it's a matter of a few days
18:28
I hope that release will be stable enough to see wider adoption. It's even been translated to > 5 languages now :)
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18:29
<vagrantc>
nice
18:29
so i probably should bother making an official backport of 0.3.x to debian stable?
18:30
should not bother
18:31
alkisg: have you seen xpra? i've heard it has some stability issues, but might be interesting for epoptes
18:32
<alkisg>
(08:30:39 μμ) vagrantc: should not bother => yup, wait for the groups feature
18:32
xpra is for running X under windows, right?
18:32
I think cygwin would be more appropriate, for epoptes-client...
18:33
<vagrantc>
seems X related from what i can see
18:34
more like VNC, but for a single application at a time, and also can resume connections and such
18:34
<alkisg>
I've tried it once, but if you're talking about porting epoptes-client to MS windows, I don't think it's suitable...
18:35
<vagrantc>
i'm not talking about windows connections at all
18:35
unless you mean X windows :P
18:35
<alkisg>
Hmmm no, but I only tried xpra under ms windows :D
18:35
Hehe
18:36
<vagrantc>
http://packages.debian.org/wheezy/xpra
18:36
essentially a rootless VNC sort of thing
18:37
<alkisg>
Yup that's what I tried... I didn't like its performance much, for my use case, so I didn't spend too much time with it
18:37
Where would that help with epoptes?
18:37
<vagrantc>
oh, i don't know... :)
18:38
just some new thing that caught my eye, i guess.
18:38
<alkisg>
From all those remote X solutions, I settled on ltsp (DIRECTX=True) for LAN, and x2go for WAN
18:38
x2go has session suspend + resume, and also sharing
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18:40
<alkisg>
vagrantc: Squeeze is similar (age-wise) to Lucid, right? epoptes runs on Lucid without modifications...
18:41
Let me see the python version...
18:41
2.6.6-3+squeeze6 vs 2.6.5-0ubuntu1, it shouldn't have any problems
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18:44
<vagrantc>
alkisg: yeah, pretty similar generations... some things are a bit newer in squeeze
18:50
<alkisg>
vagrantc: is the old version of the package being upgraded passed as a parameter to postinst?
18:51
# summary of how this script can be called:
18:51
# * <postinst> `configure' <most-recently-configured-version>
18:51
Does that mean the already installed version, or the one being installed now?
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19:02
<vagrantc>
alkisg: depends on the previous state
19:02* vagrantc digs around for docs
19:02* alkisg tries `echo "$@" > /tmp/output` from a test.postinst...
19:03
<vagrantc>
http://wiki.debian.org/MaintainerScripts
19:03
your file redirectors are quite possibly not what you'd expecrt
19:03
due to debconf
19:05
alkisg: now that i think about it, we really should avoid debconf NOTEs ... i think error *might* be more appropriate
19:05
<alkisg>
vagrantc: I was thinking to keep that note for all cases where a certificate is generated
19:05
E.g. even on clean installations
19:05
Is an error more appropriate there too?
19:06
vagrantc: http://paste.ubuntu.com/803302/
19:06
epoptes.templates
19:06
<vagrantc>
i think NOTE might even be oon it's way to deprecation ... abuse of NOTE is looked upon badly
19:08
<alkisg>
When I upgrade debian systems, sometimes the upgrade stops and a changelog is shown to me, and I need to exit that for the upgrade to continue
19:08
Is that "note" ?
19:08
<vagrantc>
think so, and that's exactly why they're looked upon with scorn
19:09
in particular, even with NONINTERACTIVE set, they tend to halt things up...
19:09
<alkisg>
I see... hmmm ok I'll leave it as a note, but only for this specific problem where the old certificate has expired
19:09
So it won't be shown ever again, except to the few people that already have a broken installation
19:09* vagrantc actually checks the paste link
19:10
<vagrantc>
also, debconf is really easy to get wrong...
19:10
<alkisg>
. /usr/share/debconf/confmodule
19:10
db_input high epoptes/generated_openssl_certificate || true
19:10
db_go
19:10
I only have that..
19:11
<vagrantc>
i guess, if you're not doing any interactive questions, it should be fine ...
19:12
the problem gets into interactive questions with configuration files, and the fact that debconf gets run twice...
19:13
<alkisg>
Do you suggest I use "error" even if I only show it for expired certificates?
19:14* vagrantc reads up
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19:49
<alkisg>
Wow we got our dedicated lintian page :P http://lintian.debian.org/full/epoptes@lists.launchpad.net.html#epoptes
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19:54
<vagrantc>
alkisg: and of course: http://qa.debian.org/developer.php?login=alkisg@gmail.com
20:07
<alkisg>
Hehe good one
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