IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 16 January 2012   (all times are UTC)

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06:27
<fiberglasscivic1>
Hello all, I need help with customizing clients
06:29
<alkisg>
!ask
06:29
<ltsp`>
alkisg: ask: Don't ask to ask a question, simply ask it, and if someone knows the answer, they'll respond. Please hang around for at least 15 minutes after asking a question, as not everybody constantly monitors the channel.
06:33
<vagrantc>
alkisg: so i noticed the new version re-generates the server certificate in the client too...
06:34
<alkisg>
Hi vagrantc. No, the user is supposed to transfer that manually
06:34
<vagrantc>
alkisg: there's no way to simple update the expiration date?
06:34
alkisg: yes, but the postinst regenerated the certificate
06:34
on the client
06:34
<alkisg>
By "client" you mean the epoptes "server", right? Yeah
06:35
vagrantc: planned announcement: https://sites.google.com/a/epoptes.org/www/news/_draft_post#
06:35
I don't know about the date, I thought that too, but I doubted it, as it's part of the certificate itself,
06:35
<vagrantc>
alkisg: no... when i upgraded it in ltsp, i saw a message about generating a new server cert
06:35
but i don't see ho wthat would happen.
06:36
<alkisg>
When epoptes is upgraded from 0.3.x, a new certificate is generated
06:36
When epoptes-client is upgraded, nothing happens
06:36
The user is supposed to manually transfer the server.crt to the chroot or his standalone workstations
06:36
Now, even if we could update the date only, we'd need to do that on the clients
06:37
<vagrantc>
sure
06:37
<alkisg>
So the user would still have to chroot and upgrade epoptes-client...
06:37
<vagrantc>
i dunno... maybe i was looking at the wrong screen or something...
06:37
<alkisg>
Do you think we're allowed to run `epoptes-client -c` to fetch the certificate from the server in this case?
06:37
<vagrantc>
i committed a few missing dependencies for epoptes-client as well...
06:37
<alkisg>
Saw them, ty...
06:38
<vagrantc>
every since i made ltsp-build-client build a truely minimal chroot, i'm finding all sorts of missing deps in things.
06:38
<alkisg>
Hehe
06:39
I found one about svg while trying to run it in KDE too...
06:39
(the client)
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06:44
<alkisg>
vagrantc: so I was thinking, how about we did a release today to get rid of that certificate problem (and have the groups feature tested etc), and then after a week or so, to make another release that adds vinagre support + the few missing translations (i.e. I'm thinking of mailing the translators today).
06:44
Does that sound OK, or should we wait for vinagre + translations and only make 1 release?
06:45
<vagrantc>
i'd like to get the cert problem fixed ASAP
06:45
alkisg: was wondering if you might want a cert generation script wrapper, instead of just dumping it in postinst
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06:51
<alkisg>
vagrantc: like, /usr/share/epoptes/generate-certificate, which the sysadmin could use to generate a certificate even after postinst?
06:52
<vagrantc>
alkisg: yeah, or if they wanted to regenerate their certs for some reason
06:53
the postinst could simply call that, then...
06:53
<alkisg>
Yup... I just don't know in which cases the sysadmin would need that, and not to call openssl himself, to add extra data that we don't provide
06:54
Like the authority or company name or manual expiration date etc
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06:56
<vagrantc>
it was a thought, i'm not set on it
06:57* alkisg keeps it in mind, and goes on to rename "students" to "users" etc
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07:03* alkisg also makes a note to put info for certificate regeneration in the wiki
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07:27
<fiberglasscivic1>
!ask
07:27
<ltsp`>
fiberglasscivic1: ask: Don't ask to ask a question, simply ask it, and if someone knows the answer, they'll respond. Please hang around for at least 15 minutes after asking a question, as not everybody constantly monitors the channel.
07:28
<fiberglasscivic1>
I am working on customizing my thin client builds and would like to know how to make it so that the client can make permanent changes
07:34
<alkisg>
Permanent changes where? Whatever they change in their home directory is permanent...
07:36
<fiberglasscivic1>
Things like panel items and install programs
07:36
<alkisg>
To install programs, you just give them sudo access (or root access in debian)
07:37
To change panel items, they just edit the panels, nothing special
07:37
<fiberglasscivic1>
The problem I have is that when the client reboots, those changes are lost
07:37
<alkisg>
Maybe you have a broken setup somehow?
07:38
When a user on a thin client logs in, he's working on the server
07:38
So any changes he does are done on the server immediately
07:38
E.g. if you login on thin-client-1, and install gimp, then thin-client-2 immediately has gimp
07:38
Did you do a normal installation? Or did you do something weird like adding users to the chroot, and gdm, or fat clients etc?
07:40
<fiberglasscivic1>
I followed a tutorial at this link http://www.havetheknowhow.com/Configure-the-server/Install-LTSP.html
07:41
<alkisg>
OK, so try what I said above
07:41
Open a thin client, and install a program, e.g. htop
07:41
Then check on another thin client if that program is immediately available. It should be.
07:41
And if you reboot both clients, the program should still be there
07:42
If you see any indication that that's not the case for you, stop and say so
07:42
<fiberglasscivic1>
Ok, give me a minute
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07:59
<fiberglasscivic1>
Ok, I installed a program on one thin client and logged into a second. The second thin client doesn't have the new program
08:05
<alkisg>
fiberglasscivic1: from the first thin client, type: hostname
08:05
Is that the hostname of your server?
08:06
<fiberglasscivic1>
no
08:06
<alkisg>
Then your setup is wrong
08:06
When you login, do you see the LDM screen? http://www.stgraber.org/download/images/ldm.png
08:07
Also, which distro are you using? ubuntu server? Which version?
08:08
<fiberglasscivic1>
I do not see the ldm screen. Ubuntu Server 10.04
08:09
<alkisg>
What do you see when you login on your thin clients?
08:09
GDM? A text console?
08:10
<fiberglasscivic1>
http://img651.imageshack.us/img651/7980/screenshotrd.png
08:10
I believe that's gdm
08:10
<alkisg>
Indeed
08:10
So you did 2 things wrong
08:10
1) you install gdm (or ubuntu desktop or something) in your chroot
08:10
That would make your clients fat clients, not thin clients
08:11
2) you created users in your chroot
08:11
You should create users in your server instead
08:11
Delete your chroot and start over
08:11
<fiberglasscivic1>
Easy enough
08:11
<alkisg>
Remember that you need ubuntu-desktop installed on your server
08:11
Even if it's a server installation instead of a desktop one
08:12
<fiberglasscivic1>
I have it installed so I can vnc into the server
08:12
<alkisg>
OK
08:13* alkisg would use x2go instead of vnc though
08:17
<fiberglasscivic1>
I will check it out. There are some limitations in VNC that I don't like anyway
08:20
While I'm waiting on the client to build, I have another question. I read about auto login for specific machines by adding info to the dchpd.conf file. Will this also select the desktop environment if there are multiple types available?
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08:39
<alkisg>
fiberglasscivic1: you don't need to add info to dhcpdc.conf for this. You put the autologin info to lts.conf
08:39
!lts.conf
08:39
<ltsp`>
alkisg: lts.conf: http://manpages.ubuntu.com/lts.conf
08:40
<alkisg>
Read the man page for autologin while you wait :)
08:40
<fiberglasscivic1>
that's where I'm at now
08:40
lol
08:40
I want to be able to boot htpc's from my ltsp server
08:41
as well as normal terminals
08:41
your info fixed my problem. Thanks for the help
08:41
no more adding users to the chroot
08:42
<muppis>
fiberglasscivic1, if you want to use DVD drive in htpc, you need add user to cdrom group in chroot to able access the drive.
08:43
<alkisg>
fiberglasscivic1: what are your htpc client specs? RAM, CPU ?
08:43
If they have enough RAM, you'll probably want to use them as fat clients
08:43
Because multimedia streaming with local lan X traffic is slow + cpu + bandwidth consuming
08:44
<muppis>
I runned xbmc as local app.
08:44
<alkisg>
muppis: but you had to do a lot of workarounds for the dvd to work etc
08:44
While with fat clients they'd just work
08:44
<muppis>
alkisg, not really. Just add user to cdrom group. :)
08:45
<alkisg>
muppis: what about camera?
08:45
And, why have all the ltspfs overhead?
08:45
Traffic going from the client to the server and then to the client again?
08:45
<muppis>
xbmc access directly to device, doesn't use ltspfs.
08:46
<alkisg>
Anyway the concept is the same with either localapps or fat clients, i.e. to run the apps locally
08:47
Did you install firefox locally as well?
08:47
<fiberglasscivic1>
probably the Foxcon nt435H with Intel Atom D425 @ 1.8ghz and 1GB or 2GB of ram
08:48
no DVD drive
08:48
<muppis>
Dedicated chroot and user for htpc, only launching xbmc.
08:48
<alkisg>
fiberglasscivic1: yeah either with localapps or with fat clients, try to run your multimedia apps locally
08:49
!fatclients
08:49
<ltsp`>
alkisg: fatclients: You may find some info about the Ubuntu/LTSP implementation of fat clients at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/FatClients
08:49
<alkisg>
...and somewhere near there there's a page for localapps too
08:49
<fiberglasscivic1>
I'm familiar with that section. It's where I've learned a lot about thinclients and network booting in general
08:59
by running the apps locally, will that help to smooth out video? or does the server hardware matter for that
09:00
<muppis>
It will help smooth. Local apps are only loaded from server, everything else is happened in client.
09:01
<fiberglasscivic1>
I'll look into it.
09:01
<alkisg>
Accelleration from the graphics card on the client also helps (e.g. vdpau) to play hd video
09:03
<fiberglasscivic1>
I'm going to look into this further tomorrow. It's 4am here now. Bed is calling. lol
09:03
Again, thanks to everyone for the help
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14:21
<_UsUrPeR_>
stgraber: woo! Fix committed upstream -- https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/907055
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14:25
<alkisg>
Woot, way to go _UsUrPeR_!
14:26
<_UsUrPeR_>
:D
14:26
alkisg: that is a crazy process
14:27
<alkisg>
Yeah... the bright side is that since it's so difficult, it's also difficult to get untested code into the kernel :D
14:27
<_UsUrPeR_>
true that
14:27
also, the submission process is insane, but that keeps everything organized for the maintainers
14:28
still, I feel like I just finished a doctorate dissertation :)
14:28
<alkisg>
Hehehe
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14:28* alkisg wishes he will finally get to do that in a few months himself...
14:30
<_UsUrPeR_>
heh. so do I.
14:30
The process is 90% waiting, 19% correspondence, and 1% creating the patch
14:30
err 80% waiting
14:30
also 1% math ;)
14:30
well crap
14:31
that's right - to get a patch in a kernel, you need to give 109%
14:31
<alkisg>
:D
14:34
<stgraber>
_UsUrPeR_: yeah! now Linus will hopefully pull from that branch into the 3.3 branch quite soon so the kernel team will be happy to pull the change into our kernel
14:35
and yeah the kernel has become pretty well organized making things quite a bit bureaucratic and slow, with sub-sub-system maintainers (intel driver), sub-system maintainers (drm stack) and then kernel maintainers
14:35
each of them having to review and push the changes to the next one
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14:43
<Flaw>
i'm having a bit of trouble getting thin clients to play nicely. Thus far I've managed to get them booting, PXE boot works and I get to the login manager, but after logging in, the only thing I get is a terminal window covering 1/4th of the screen
14:43
any ideas where to start looking?
14:44
this is on an ubuntu server edition, 11.10
14:46
<alkisg>
Flaw: did you install ubuntu-desktop in your server?
14:46
<Flaw>
mmmm, not that I know of
14:46
I imagined building the client image would have taken care of things like that
14:46
that would make sense though
14:50
<alkisg>
It's usually recommented to install with the alternate cd, instead of the server cd, so that you don't have to do that manually
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14:56
<Flaw>
yeah, I'll try installing that and see what happens
14:56
thanks
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15:15
<nubae>
hi... anyone here know how to make openchrome driver work properly for ltsp
15:16
seems to work fine for regular ubuntu, just not ltsp
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15:16
<nubae>
on ltsp, screen comes up with what seems to be a desynched screen...
15:16
but I've tried all I can think of in lts.conf
15:17
only thing I can think of doing is compiling a special image with the openchrome driver compiled in
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15:19
<nubae>
but that seems like a bit of a pain if there is another way.. . I did do this once before when the latest ATA driver didnt work with ltsp, so the procedure would be the same only with openchrome closed source drivers from VIA
15:21
Its pretty important in my opinion as there are now really powerful fatclients that cost 150 euros 2ghz via processor, 2 gigabytes RAM, HDMI, blueray, 1920x1080 FULL HD
15:22
Seems like a real good deal, oh and hard drive 160 gb... it makes for the perfect fatclient (ltsp based) and was made for ubuntu so...
15:23
perhaps its because I'm still with 10.04, and maybe these are running a newer openchrome fixed version of ubuntu
15:25
this is the make and model btw if anyone is interested> ZC-MC7 Zaapa
15:29
It's half the price of Acer aspire revo R3610 which though runs an atom processor seems less powerful
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17:59
<vagrantc>
!seen alkisg
17:59
<ltsp`>
vagrantc: alkisg was last seen in #ltsp 3 hours, 8 minutes, and 51 seconds ago: <alkisg> It's usually recommented to install with the alternate cd, instead of the server cd, so that you don't have to do that manually
17:59
<vagrantc>
being helpful, as usual.
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20:29
<vagrantc>
sheesh... i wonder if we shouldn't ship some sort of disable-compiz wrapper in LTSP packages...
20:30
actually, we could disable compiz from ldm based on an lts.conf setting
20:30* vagrantc wonders if there's a way to temporarily disable compiz on a per-session basis.
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20:37
<abeehc>
maybe metacity --replace
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20:38
<stgraber>
vagrantc: IIRC there's a way of disabling compiz in lts.conf. For per-user, there's a gconf/dconf key for that (can't easily check here but it's something like window-manager, gconf-editor should make it easy to find it)
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21:12
<vagrantc>
stgraber: can't seem to find the lts.conf variables...
21:15
<stgraber>
vagrantc: hmm, indeed, I thought you could override SKIP_CHECKS but apparently you can't ...
21:15
maybe mgariepy knows another way to turn off compiz
21:17
<mgariepy>
vagrantc, maybe you can just use another session which disable compiz
21:17
!ldm_session
21:17
<ltsp`>
mgariepy: Error: "ldm_session" is not a valid command.
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21:25
<vagrantc>
i was just thinking, given how often it comes up for LTSP, we should have something built-in so that users don't have to mess with long gconf commandlines
21:26
(users/sysadmins)
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21:37
<mgariepy>
!compiz
21:37
<ltsp`>
mgariepy: compiz: the default window manager in gnome is gnome-wm, which automatically chooses compiz if it thinks that the card supports it. Compiz is causing login problems to some clients (LP #673072). To disable it, see !disable_compiz. To restore it, see !restore_compiz
21:37
<mgariepy>
!disable_compiz
21:37
<ltsp`>
mgariepy: disable_compiz: To disable compiz for all users, run: sudo gconftool-2 --direct --config-source xml:readwrite:/etc/gconf/gconf.xml.mandatory --type string --set /desktop/gnome/session/required_components/windowmanager metacity
21:37
<mgariepy>
apt-get purge compiz can work too ;)
21:37
hehe
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21:46
<nubae>
stgraber, any idea about what I mentioned above?
21:48
<stgraber>
nubae: for openchrome issues you'll probably want to talk to mgariepy, I don't have VIA hardware around anymore
21:49
nubae: also keep in mind that unless VIA changed their CPU quite a bit recently, none of them will be supported in 12.10 (you'll still have the LTS for 5 years though)
21:49
<nubae>
any idea why it works on regular ubuntu but not on ltsp?
21:49
stgraber, can u embelish? we were thinking on buying many more of these clients
21:50
<stgraber>
can you check if X is started with a config? (ps aux | grep X), if it's, then maybe that's because LTSP has an old VIA hook that's messing up with recent openchrome
21:50
<nubae>
it starts no problem, but the res is totally out of synch
21:51
<stgraber>
nubae: We'll drop non-PAE support completely in 12.10, so any hardware hardware that doesn't support PAE (VIA, Geode, most Pentium M, ...) won't be able to boot anymore
21:51
<nubae>
u know horizontal sidelineing
21:51
not sure how to explain it
21:51
oh
21:51
<stgraber>
so unless VIA recently implemented PAE on their new CPUs, they won't be able to boot
21:51
<nubae>
so the C7 doesnt support PAE?
21:52
<stgraber>
nubae: according to wikipedia it may depend on the C7
21:52
nubae: grep "pae" /proc/cpuinfo will tell you
21:54
<nubae>
hmm its cy/m
21:54
sorry
21:54
c7-m
21:54
its unsure if it is PAE or not
21:55
<stgraber>
c7-m is Esther which should have pae, best to check the CPU flags though and try booting the i386 pae kernel to make sure it works
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21:57
<nubae>
http://www.via.com.tw/en/products/processors/c7-m_ulv/specs.jsp
21:57
I dont have the client handy
21:57
but ill check
21:58
so would u suggest i compile within the chroot specifically for closed source VIA video?
21:58
it does boot with pae
21:58
thats what we have with our fatclients
21:58
its just the video problem
21:59
in launchpad theres a mention of openchrome issues but it got closed due to time
21:59
I guess
22:00
thing is, price wise, these boxes are half the prices of the acer atom based box and seems more potent
22:02
I have reason to believe Spanish government pushed for this hardware to be made for ubuntu
22:04
but they dont much care for ltsp
22:04
only extremadura is going that route
22:09
In regards to X, I'm running a standard fatclient with various apps preinstalled but not even an lts.conf was used
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