IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 4 December 2008   (all times are UTC)

00:05johnny has left #ltsp
00:06johnny has joined #ltsp
00:11try2free has left #ltsp
00:36Ryan52 is now known as machine76
00:37machine76 is now known as Ryan52
00:37japerry has quit IRC
00:37generalsnus has quit IRC
00:43japerry has joined #ltsp
01:02alkisg has joined #ltsp
01:12alkisg has quit IRC
01:13haz1 has left #ltsp
01:34rcy has quit IRC
01:34rcy has joined #ltsp
01:35gate_keeper_ has joined #ltsp
02:08tjikkun_work has joined #ltsp
02:25vagrantc has quit IRC
03:16alkisg has joined #ltsp
03:16
<alkisg>
Lns, ping?
03:31Shingoshi has quit IRC
03:31Q-FUNK has joined #ltsp
03:41Loto__ has quit IRC
03:42alkisg has quit IRC
03:47Shingoshi has joined #ltsp
03:50alkisg has joined #ltsp
03:57Shingoshi_ has joined #ltsp
04:01Shingoshi__ has joined #ltsp
04:07Shingoshi has quit IRC
04:12Shingoshi__ has quit IRC
04:12Shingoshi__ has joined #ltsp
04:13Shingoshi_ has quit IRC
04:15mikkel has joined #ltsp
04:17randra has joined #ltsp
04:25Shingoshi has joined #ltsp
04:25Shingoshi__ has quit IRC
04:28Shingoshi has quit IRC
04:30Shingoshi has joined #ltsp
04:43siki has joined #ltsp
05:15Shingoshi has quit IRC
05:16Q-FUNK has quit IRC
05:16Shingoshi has joined #ltsp
05:19gate_keeper_ has quit IRC
05:21Q-FUNK has joined #ltsp
05:21gate_keeper_ has joined #ltsp
05:22CaScAdE^1arAway is now known as CaScAdE^FarAwaz
05:22CaScAdE^FarAwaz is now known as CaScAdE^FarAway
05:24alkisg has quit IRC
05:31Shingoshi has quit IRC
05:32Shingoshi has joined #ltsp
05:37Shingoshi has quit IRC
05:38Shingoshi has joined #ltsp
05:49elisboa has joined #ltsp
06:12pmatulis has joined #ltsp
06:22dirigeant has joined #ltsp
06:32jackli has joined #ltsp
06:32
<jackli>
hi,ogra
06:33
cyberorg:hi
06:33
<cyberorg>
hi jackli :)
06:34
<jackli>
:)
06:35nubae has joined #ltsp
06:44Shingoshi has quit IRC
06:44Shingoshi has joined #ltsp
06:48BrunoXLambert has joined #ltsp
06:55racquad has joined #ltsp
06:55hanthana_ has joined #ltsp
06:56Shingoshi has quit IRC
06:56Shingoshi_ has joined #ltsp
06:56Shingoshi_ is now known as Shingoshi
06:56
<racquad>
hi guys. i'm trying to create a ltsp-cluster using heartbeat. the problem is that when my two nodes are up, my thinclient cannot connect at all. how can I define which server it will connect?
07:04Blinny has joined #ltsp
07:09Shingoshi has quit IRC
07:09Shingoshi has joined #ltsp
07:14mccann has joined #ltsp
07:15jackli has left #ltsp
07:18hanthana has quit IRC
07:27vvinet has joined #ltsp
07:39Shingoshi_ has joined #ltsp
07:39hanthana_ has quit IRC
07:52Shingoshi_ has quit IRC
07:53Shingoshi__ has joined #ltsp
08:01pmatulis has quit IRC
08:01pmatulis has joined #ltsp
08:04BrunoXLambert has quit IRC
08:06racquad has quit IRC
08:06MeW_ has joined #ltsp
08:07Shingoshi__ has quit IRC
08:07Shingoshi__ has joined #ltsp
08:09Shingoshi has quit IRC
08:10six2one has joined #ltsp
08:21dirigeant has quit IRC
08:42david_ has joined #ltsp
08:43lipinski has joined #ltsp
08:43
<lipinski>
Cannot get ltsp-build-client to work under Ubuntu 8.10 - fails because it cannot configure hal. Anyone here that can help?
08:44david_ has quit IRC
08:46jstephan has joined #ltsp
08:46k3j0 has joined #ltsp
08:51tsurc has joined #ltsp
08:51
<lipinski>
Anyone seen this problem with ltsp-build-client? http://pastebot.ltsp.org/125
08:55etyack has joined #ltsp
08:55tsurc has quit IRC
08:56
<k3j0>
hi agin i've still errors while boting with my clients... My server runs kiwi-ltsp newest ver (seuse 11) here are the errors : http://img366.imageshack.us/img366/8519/img0254qs7.jpg , http://img366.imageshack.us/img366/268/img0261vc9.jpg the montor always switching between these two eindows /(all 2sec...) sb knows the prob or could help me? thx
08:56
<Blinny>
lipinski: No, sorry.
08:57six2one has quit IRC
08:57
<_UsUrPeR_>
!doco
08:57
<ltspbot`>
_UsUrPeR_: "doco" is you can find the link to the latest, and most current upstream documentation at: http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/LtspDocumentationUpstream
09:00six2one has joined #ltsp
09:04
<k3j0>
thers no troubleshhot-sectipn^^
09:05
<cyberorg>
k3j0, http://en.opensuse.org/LTSP/Troubleshooting
09:05
<k3j0>
already read^^
09:06
<cyberorg>
k3j0, pastebin your /srv/tftpboot/KIWI/lts.conf please
09:06
<k3j0>
kk
09:07
<_UsUrPeR_>
is there any conceptual documentation for ltsp-localapps?
09:08
<cyberorg>
_UsUrPeR_, very little here http://en.opensuse.org/LTSP/Localapps
09:08
one line almost at the end
09:08
<_UsUrPeR_>
cyberorg: do you know who wrote it? Specifically the daemon
09:09cliebow has joined #ltsp
09:09
<cyberorg>
_UsUrPeR_, all ltsp devs during last hackfest
09:10
<_UsUrPeR_>
:P
09:11
<cyberorg>
sbalneav, you wrote that?
09:12
_UsUrPeR_, gory details here http://ltspthinclient.blogspot.com/ :)
09:12
<k3j0>
cyberorg here, http://pastebin.com/m4fc5f691
09:12
tried with CONFIGURE_X true and false
09:12
<cyberorg>
k3j0, please change CONFIGURE_X=True
09:13
what graphics hardware do you have?
09:14
<k3j0>
dont really know mom im checking
09:14CAN-o-SPAM has joined #ltsp
09:15MeW_ has quit IRC
09:15
<k3j0>
we've a lot of IGELs
09:15
just got a link of another network worker
09:15
http://www.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/Clients#IGEL
09:15
<cyberorg>
this should work http://pastebin.com/dba75318
09:16
k3j0, just 32M ram?
09:16
<_UsUrPeR_>
sbalneav: ping
09:16
<k3j0>
cyberorg, think so
09:17
<cyberorg>
k3j0, i doubt our ltsp5 will be usable with 32M ram
09:17
<lipinski>
Anyone know who owns ltsp-build-client tool? Specifically looking for help with Ubuntu 8.10.
09:17
<k3j0>
O_o
09:18
<cyberorg>
k3j0, try http://pastebin.com/de3ce8f1
09:18
<k3j0>
is there another possibility with a cutten image or something`,cyberorg?
09:18
ty i will
09:19
<cyberorg>
k3j0, least we require is 128M on the client to be usable, ideally 256 is good for our setup, although it may boot with about 64M but will not be very usable
09:20EAG has joined #ltsp
09:20
<k3j0>
we already used it before...^^
09:20
dunno maybe an o,der ver
09:20
<cyberorg>
k3j0, not with ltsp5
09:20
<EAG>
hello, are there any good guides available regarding getting audio?
09:20
<cyberorg>
EAG, it should just work out of box
09:21Q-FUNK has quit IRC
09:21
<EAG>
I dont get sound out of the thinclient-box unfortunately
09:21
<cyberorg>
EAG, ltsp5?
09:21
<EAG>
nor out of the server either
09:21
yeah I guess it is 5
09:22
<cyberorg>
EAG, which distro?
09:22
<EAG>
ubuntu 8.04
09:22
<cyberorg>
it should work out of box on ubuntu, wait for ogra he may be able to help
09:22
<EAG>
I am a bit lost here :)
09:22
okay
09:27Shingoshi__ is now known as Shingoshi
09:36
<k3j0>
cyberorg, http://www.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/Clients#What_s_the_minimum_client here it says 32mb are ok! i need to know if its really NOT waokring with 32mb..
09:38
<cyberorg>
k3j0, http://en.opensuse.org/LTSP#What_is_required
09:38
k3j0, alt and ubuntu probably still works with 32M ram
09:39
<cliebow>
k3j0:that doc is for 4.2..32 meg makes a fine client in 4.2
09:39
<k3j0>
kk
09:39
<cyberorg>
ubuntu will not be usable with 32M, just good enough to boot
09:39
<k3j0>
ive suse
09:40
<cyberorg>
k3j0, what happened with the last lts.conf?
09:41
<k3j0>
same thing
09:41
just got blinking screens
09:41
and a login shell
09:41
<cyberorg>
k3j0, try XSERVER = vesa
09:42
<k3j0>
kk
09:42
<lipinski>
Anyone upgrade an LTSP Server from Ubuntu 8.04 to 8.10?
09:44Shingoshi has quit IRC
09:44Shingoshi has joined #ltsp
09:51
<k3j0>
same window... is it possible that it doesnt works becasue of the low RAM? ill try with my notebook
09:53
<cyberorg>
k3j0, yes please it, remove XSERVER= line from lts.conf
09:53
k3j0, find out what graphics hardware the client has for sure
09:53
it does not like nsc and vesa
09:55
one more thing you can try is X_COLOR_DEPTH = 16 with XSERVER = vesa
09:55
also ssh into the client and get /var/log/Xorg.*.log
09:56gate_keeper_ has quit IRC
09:58
<EAG>
where do I set the default session for the client?
09:58
it keeps using xfce instead of gnome
10:01
<k3j0>
hmm i just booted with my old fujitsu noteboook (128mb ram) and the same thing as on the client
10:04
<cyberorg>
k3j0, removed XSERVER line and added CONFIGURE_X = True?
10:05
<k3j0>
ill try again with a differnt lts.conf then answering second
10:05spectra has joined #ltsp
10:13alkisg has joined #ltsp
10:13
<k3j0>
ty cyberorg, now i can login with my notebook :D just not with the client...
10:14
<cyberorg>
k3j0, with the client try X_COLOR_DEPTH = 16 and XSERVER = vesa
10:14rjune has quit IRC
10:14
<k3j0>
kk
10:14
<cyberorg>
if it still does not work get Xorg logs from the client (ssh into it)
10:15spectra has quit IRC
10:15
<k3j0>
y
10:18hanthana has joined #ltsp
10:20spectra has joined #ltsp
10:21staffencasa has joined #ltsp
10:21
<cyberorg>
k3j0, i got to go, post your findings on kiwi-ltsp-users mailing list, i doubt 32M client will work though
10:21
ciao all
10:23
<k3j0>
omg wtf it works :D thank u very very much
10:23
cyberorg! ur my man ;)
10:24rjune has joined #ltsp
10:24
<lipinski>
Any ltsp-build-client experts joined recently?
10:25spectra has quit IRC
10:27
<_UsUrPeR_>
lipinski: what's going on? I am no where close to a expert, but I may be able to help a little...
10:30spectra has joined #ltsp
10:37
<warren>
_UsUrPeR_: did you have a kernel bug yesterday so you wanted the old kernel?
10:39
<_UsUrPeR_>
warren: No, I'm good. This pertains more to congruent kernel specs. There was no bug.
10:39
<warren>
no bug? damn, we could have just stopped and fired everyone.
10:41
<_UsUrPeR_>
I prefer Singapore's public caning. People learn after a caning.
10:42
<warren>
There is a "Caning Shop" near here.
10:42
They sell caning services.
10:43
sadly, it seems all furniture related.
10:44
<_UsUrPeR_>
baww. Is it at least run by Singaporeans?
10:46
<lipinski>
_UsUrPer_: After upgrading from Ubuntu 8.04 to 8.10 - ltsp-build-client fails, and I cannot get a successful chroot built.
10:47
_UsUrPeR_: here is some of the ltsp-build-client output: http://pastebot.ltsp.org/125
10:48
hal fails to configure for two reasons - dbus cannot be force-reloaded by hal.postinst - and something with polkit-auth
10:49
<_UsUrPeR_>
lipinski: I have not had too much luck with ubuntu 8.10 upgrade
10:49
<lipinski>
My Ubuntu 8.10 upgrade was flawless - until I tried to rebuild my ltsp client images.
10:50
Is there a way to "downgrade" back to 8.04?
10:50
I'm trying to avoid a fresh install of my system - but I haven't found any info on how to go back to 8.04... I would if I could.
10:51
<_UsUrPeR_>
Can't give a definitive answer on a downgrade.
10:52
I am sure it's possible, but I don't know of an automatic function to downgrade
10:52
Anyone else care to weigh in?
10:53dirigeant has joined #ltsp
10:53
<Blinny>
Fresh install without formatting /home ought to do it.
10:54
lipinski: Can I suggest you ask on the LTSP mailing list also?
10:55
lipinski: https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/ltsp-discuss
10:55
<lipinski>
Well - I'd prefer to stay on 8.10, but I need to get around this LTSP problem... I have gotten nowhere on being able to rebuild my client images on 8.10.
10:56
I guess "build" rather. I can't build any image at all on 8.10
10:56
<Blinny>
Wow. You first reported this on Nov 20 ?
10:57
Are you fully updated?
10:57
<lipinski>
Blinny: fully updated how? My 8.10 upgrade completed without a hitch. Then I tried to rebuild my LTSP client images by removing /opt/ltsp, and ltsp-build-client. It constantly fails.
10:57
<Blinny>
Can you purge & reinstall ltsp-server-standalone ?
10:58
lipinski: meaning aptitude update && aptitude dist-upgrade doesn't bring any more packages
10:58
<lipinski>
Blinny: let me try both your suggestions
10:59
<Blinny>
try the dist-upgrade first
11:00
<lipinski>
WOW - 91 packages to upgrade and 4 new to install.
11:03tjikkun_work has quit IRC
11:04
<lipinski>
Blinny: Will purge of ltsp-server-standalone delete my /opt/ltsp and /tftpboot contents?
11:04japerry has quit IRC
11:06
<Blinny>
lipinski: Not sure. You should absolutely back up anything important (I'm thinking about /etc/ltsp and wherever you keep your lts.conf )
11:06
But yes. Update first.
11:12Shingoshi has quit IRC
11:12kharloss has joined #ltsp
11:13Shingoshi has joined #ltsp
11:21
<lipinski>
Blinny: My system has both ltsp-server and ltsp-server-standalone packages. I only purge and install ltsp-server-standalone?
11:22japerry has joined #ltsp
11:24
<Blinny>
lipinski: The update didn't work?
11:25
<lipinski>
dist-upgrade worked. I purged and reinstalled ltsp-server-standalone (only - not ltsp-server). I'm running ltsp-build-client now
11:25Q-FUNK has joined #ltsp
11:26
<lipinski>
Blinny: same problem with ltsp-build-client - dpkg --configure hal fails, so ltsp-build-client fails: http://pastebot.ltsp.org/125
11:27
I'm going to try and purge and install ltsp-server
11:27kharloss has quit IRC
11:28david_ has joined #ltsp
11:29
<Blinny>
I'm assuming ltsp-build-client is a part of ltsp-server - I'm trying to find out for sure now
11:31
lipinski: Gotta run - be back later
11:31
<lipinski>
Blinny: Thanks. ltsp-build-client running again after purge/install of ltsp-server
11:31Q-FUNK has quit IRC
11:31Q-FUNK has joined #ltsp
11:31
<lipinski>
Blinny: we'll see if this helps.
11:45
<alkisg>
Erm... in Intrepid: I copied /etc/apt/sources.list to the chroot, and did apt-get update && apt-get dist-upgrade. And I got a prompt to configure the lilo bootloader inside the chroot!!! Is this normal? I haven't seen this before...
11:49Q-FUNK has quit IRC
11:50
<Lns>
alkisg: pong?
11:50
<alkisg>
Lns, hey man!
11:50
<lipinski>
Blinny: when you get back - still no luck - ltsp-build-client still fails.
11:51
<alkisg>
I got bonding working, that's why I pinged you before
11:51
<Lns>
alkisg: oh nice =) what method did you use?
11:51
<alkisg>
It's just great, I can remove 2-3 ftp cables from my server and it's still working!! :)
11:51
Mode 0
11:51
I didn't try anything else, worked fine out of the box
11:52
But I followed a how to for 6.10, and then I saw that another one existed for intrepid
11:52
I want to try the newer one also...
11:52
<Lns>
alkisg: that is awesome - no switch config?
11:52
URL me the 6.10 howto if you can
11:53
<alkisg>
Lns, my switch is unmanaged, couldn't config it even if I tried... :P
11:53
<Lns>
heh
11:53
How many NICs do you have in your server if you can pull 2-3 out??
11:53
<alkisg>
Lns, I followed this one: http://www.howtoforge.com/network_bonding_ubuntu_6.10
11:54
And I want to also try this one (for intrepid): http://blog.brightbox.co.uk/posts/howto-do-ethernet-bonding-on-ubuntu-properly
11:54
!pastebot
11:54
<ltspbot`>
alkisg: "pastebot" is The LTSP pastebot is at http://pastebot.ltsp.org. Please paste all text longer than a line or two to the pastebot, as it helps to reduce traffic in the channel. A link to the content will be pasted in the channel.
11:54
<Lns>
alkisg: bad url..or at least i can't get to it
11:54
oh wait, it's me
11:54
<ltsppbot>
"alkisg" pasted "iftop -i bond0 with an 100Mbps switch" (22 lines) at http://pastebot.ltsp.org/126
11:55
<alkisg>
Lns, 4 NICs, 270Mbps of actual traffic while playing a video.
11:55
I think I'll get 380 with netperf...
11:55
<Lns>
wow...what's the top-end of a GB/sec nic again? I heard it's actually around 400mbps
11:58
<alkisg>
Lns, with GBit I'm worried about the PCI bus speed... I think we'll have to use pci-e NICs will in the near future.
11:58
<Lns>
ah
11:58
sounds about right
11:58
<alkisg>
In another lab, a gigabit one, I got about 380 with actual traffic, but I didn't do extensive benchmarks (netperf etc)
11:59
<Lns>
brb
11:59Lns has quit IRC
12:01Lns has joined #ltsp
12:05Eghie has joined #ltsp
12:15ninkendo has quit IRC
12:21lns_ has joined #ltsp
12:22Eghie has quit IRC
12:22* lns_ sighs... What's up with me and filesystem corruption/hard drive crashes lately
12:22Q-FUNK has joined #ltsp
12:23Lns has quit IRC
12:23lns_ is now known as Lns
12:28* _UsUrPeR_ needs some assistance from one of the individuals w/ hands-on experience on ltsp-localappsd
12:28hanthana has quit IRC
12:32ninkendo has joined #ltsp
12:33Eghie has joined #ltsp
12:35
<EAG>
hmm which xorg.conf-file is ltsp using?
12:36
<warren>
EAG: what distro?
12:36
<EAG>
ubuntu
12:37
my ltsp-session seems to be using some kind of default settings
12:37
<lipinski>
Blinny: I found a solution to my problem!!! Have no idea exactly why, but ltsp-build-client seems to break if /opt is a symlink. (I had /opt symlinked to /usr/local/opt). I have no idea why it failed with dbus, policykit, and hal; but I moved my original /opt and created an actual /opt directory on my root partition, and voila.
12:38
<EAG>
no nvidia-driver and the screen can only be set to 800x600 at highest
12:38
*sigh
12:38* Lns wonders if the same thing would happen to lipinski if it was a hard link
12:39
<_UsUrPeR_>
EAG: did you install the nvidia drivers in the chroot?
12:40
<EAG>
no
12:41
<Blinny>
lipinski: Good.
12:44
<EAG>
so... it still uses the same xorg.conf-file?
12:45
<_UsUrPeR_>
eag: yeah. it's location has to be specified in the lts.conf file
12:45
<EAG>
okay
12:46
<lipinski>
uh_oh - new LTSP problem. On client, I don't get a login screen. After the Ubuntu splash, the screen starts blinking between a blank screen and a screen that just says: xauth: creating new authority file /var/run/ldm-xauth-CiNdz3777
12:46chrisinanoffice is now known as chrisinajar
12:50
<warren>
I want to tag ltsp-trunk today
12:52
<alkisg>
lipinski: wild guess, nvidia card on the client?
12:53ajohnson has quit IRC
12:54
<warren>
_UsUrPeR_: hmm, I really rather not pull avahi into the client chroot
12:54
_UsUrPeR_: cups pulls in avahi
12:54
cups also complicates chroot setup matters because some people will want avahi and cups service running, but most users don't
12:54
_UsUrPeR_: I'm afraid this should be configurable by users and not default
12:54
<lipinski>
alkisg: let me check - it's a Neoware CA10
12:55
<warren>
_UsUrPeR_: wait a sec, why does cups have to run on a client?
12:55
<lipinski>
alkisg: VIA Technologies, Inc. VT8623 [Apollo CLE266]
12:56
<alkisg>
lipinski: you'll have to look at xorg.0.log on the client....
12:56vagrantc has joined #ltsp
12:57
<lipinski>
alkisg: does sshd run on the client by default in 8.10? It didn't in 8.04 - I had to customize the chroot to allow ssh and rebuild the image.
12:57
<alkisg>
lipinski: no, you either have to do SCREEN_02=shell or press ctrl+alt+f1 and logon manually...
13:03
<EAG>
hmm any suggestions on what to put in lts.conf regarding nvidia-drivers?
13:04
I edited /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/lts.conf
13:04
but it doesnt seem to work
13:07
<_UsUrPeR_>
EAG: the following line "X_CONF = /etc/X11/xorg.conf" would point towards the /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/X11/xorg.conf file
13:08
<warren>
_UsUrPeR_: the path in X_CONF should be within the chroot, not including /opt/ltsp/i386
13:08k3j0 has quit IRC
13:08
<EAG>
ok..
13:08
X_CONF is in lts.conf?
13:08
<lipinski>
alkisg: can't login manually - after ctrl+alt+F1 - screen keeps flickering back and forth.
13:09
<alkisg>
lipinski: try SCREEN_02, It'll be easier
13:09
<_UsUrPeR_>
warren/EAG: that's correct. Put the line in quotes I just typed above in to your lts.conf file below the [DEFAULT] header
13:09
<EAG>
I dont have a xorg.conf at all in /opt/ltsp/i386/
13:09
<lipinski>
alkisg: where do I put SCREEN_02?
13:09
<alkisg>
lipinski: you may also try CONFIGURE_X=True, to see if it gets better (and if so, file a bug for X)
13:09
lipinski: in lts.conf
13:10
<_UsUrPeR_>
EAG: I'll pastebot a sample xorg.conf in a moment...
13:10
<lipinski>
alkisg: that goes in /var/lib/tftpboot/i386, correct? I don't have one now.
13:10
(forgot ltsp dir in the middle there)
13:10
<alkisg>
lipinski: yes, there
13:10
<EAG>
_UsUrPeR_: I'll just copy my regular one
13:11
<_UsUrPeR_>
EAG: that'll work too
13:11
<Blinny>
lipinski: Make sure you have at least a [Default] section.
13:11
<EAG>
weird that I didnt have one already though
13:11
in /opt..
13:11
but that may explain the default-crap
13:13
if you can paste a sample lts.conf I
13:13
I would be happy
13:14
_UsUrPeR_:
13:14
<alkisg>
lipinski, EAG: you may have an example lts.conf there: /opt/ltsp/i386/usr/share/doc/ltsp-client-core/examples/lts.conf
13:14
<EAG>
ok
13:14
<alkisg>
also,
13:14ajohnson has joined #ltsp
13:14
<alkisg>
!lts.conf
13:14
<ltspbot`>
alkisg: "lts.conf" is http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/LtsConf
13:14
<EAG>
I'll take a look
13:14
<alkisg>
Can anyone think of any reason why iTalc won't connect to one specific TC with an IP of x.x.x.103 but does connect if I change it to x.x.x.109 ????!!! I'm using NIC bonding, but I can't think of any reason why this is happening...
13:15
<Blinny>
alkisg: Is there another terminal in another subnet that has x.x.y.103 ?
13:15
<alkisg>
Blinny: no..
13:15Lns has quit IRC
13:16
<_UsUrPeR_>
eag: gimme a moment
13:17
<warren>
_UsUrPeR_: /etc/cups/printers.conf right?
13:17
<alkisg>
Blinny: I was thinking maybe it's a ports thing (127.0.0.1:10103), but I couldn't see any difference from the other 7 PCs...
13:17
<ltsppbot>
"_UsUrPeR_" pasted "lts.conf for EAG" (4 lines) at http://pastebot.ltsp.org/127
13:18randra has quit IRC
13:19
<lipinski>
alkisg: SCREEN_02=shell stopped the flickering, but now I can't login - it won't accept any of my users.
13:20
<Blinny>
alkisg: I have multiple NICs/subnets and I have to use the IP of the NIC facing the client in the address.
13:20
<EAG>
_UsUrPeR_: thx
13:20
<alkisg>
lipinski, the users are local to the chroot, so only a local root exists
13:20
lipinski: chroot and then sudo passwd to activate it, then ltsp-update-image
13:21
Blinny: I only have one subnet, and with the bonding I only have 1 IP on the server... There's really nothing different from the other 7 PCs (it's a simple 8 PC lab), so I'm at a loss...
13:22
<Blinny>
alkisg: Then I am too.
13:22
<alkisg>
Blinny: thanks anyway, I thought it was my fault somehow for not getting it!!!
13:22
Blinny: I'll just change all of them to .11x instead of .10x.... go figure.
13:23
<warren>
anyone got old ppc imacs to netboot?
13:23
I'm being told that only G4 silver and newer can netboot Linux
13:23BrunoXLambert has joined #ltsp
13:23
<warren>
but that doesn't sound correct
13:24
<johnny>
warren, i heard they could too
13:24
i wasn't successful and gave up
13:24
but that was cuz i didn't feel like messing with yaboot
13:25
i just got rid of the slow imacs
13:25
and replaced with with other donated pcs
13:26laga has left #ltsp
13:27
<_UsUrPeR_>
warren: X_ options still a no-go in Fedora atm, correct?
13:27
warren: pertaining to lts.conf
13:27
<warren>
_UsUrPeR_: yes
13:27
_UsUrPeR_: X_CONF is the only supported thing
13:28
<EAG>
is this pointless: http://www.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/NvidiaLtsp411 ?
13:29
<_UsUrPeR_>
eag: You are using ltsp 5, correct?
13:29
<EAG>
yep,
13:29
<_UsUrPeR_>
yeah, it's not going to help you much. :/
13:29
<EAG>
:(
13:29
<_UsUrPeR_>
what's going on with your client right now
13:29
?
13:30
<EAG>
I am locked to 800x600
13:30
<_UsUrPeR_>
after you added the lts.conf and xorg.conf, that is?
13:30
<EAG>
didnt help much
13:30
<_UsUrPeR_>
on the client, on boot, hit ctrl+alt+F4
13:31
in there, head into /var/log/X.???.log and see what video driver it's loading
13:31
<EAG>
ok, I'll do that
13:31
<_UsUrPeR_>
also, did you install the nvidia drivers in the chroot?
13:32
I need some help altering ltsp-localappsd. Anyone mind lending me an ear for a moment?
13:32
<EAG>
well, no,
13:32
<_UsUrPeR_>
eag: first thing's first then
13:33
<EAG>
yep, if you have a suggestion on how to do it I'll be happy :)
13:33
<_UsUrPeR_>
do you have the current NVIDIA-Linux-x86.xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx-pkg1.run file?
13:33
gotta have that in order to install
13:33
<EAG>
yup, I'll download it
13:34
but running that one wont screw up my "normal" install?
13:34
<warren>
_UsUrPeR_: /etc/cups/printers.conf is what you need in rwtab?
13:34
<EAG>
I am running ltsp on top of my regular ubuntu-desktop (which I will continue using)
13:35
<alkisg>
EAG, which version? 8.10?
13:35
<EAG>
8.04
13:35
<_UsUrPeR_>
warren: yes. files /etc/cups/client.conf
13:35
<EAG>
I am going to pxe-boot some (or at least one) client with this 8.04-desktop as a server
13:35
<alkisg>
EAG, maybe it doesn't correctly detect your monitor timings, and you may force it with X_HORZSYNC etc...
13:36
<Blinny>
Holy crap. http://htop.sourceforge.net/128.png
13:36
<warren>
_UsUrPeR_: oh wait, you need more than one?
13:36
<EAG>
alkisg: yes, but my xorg.conf should take care of that
13:36
<warren>
_UsUrPeR_: or only /etc/cups/client.conf?
13:36
<_UsUrPeR_>
warren: no, just the /etc/cups/client.conf file
13:36
singular
13:36
<EAG>
edid from my CRT isnt working correctly..
13:36
<_UsUrPeR_>
warren: everything worked after that
13:37
<alkisg>
EAG: you've put it to the chroot, updated the image, and put an lts.conf entry? What do you get if you do "getltscfg X_HORZSYNC" in the clients?
13:37alkisg has quit IRC
13:37
<_UsUrPeR_>
EAG: did you just want a larger resolution, or were you looking for glx support on the client?
13:42
<warren>
_UsUrPeR_: just to be clear, cups installed in the chroot is for what exactly?
13:43
EAG: the nv driver really doesn't work for you? 3D on a client really isn't that useful
13:43
<_UsUrPeR_>
warren: jetpipe/printing directly to a printer attached to a client through a java command invoking lp -d on the client
13:43
run on sentence +1
13:44
<warren>
_UsUrPeR_: oh, so specifically localapp printing
13:44
?
13:44
<_UsUrPeR_>
warren: yep
13:44
<warren>
_UsUrPeR_: I think I will need to split off a local app client package at some point. the local app stuff is pulling in far too much crap.
13:45
for now I can't safely add cups to the default install list
13:45
<_UsUrPeR_>
warren: definitely prudent.
13:45
<warren>
avahi and cups daemons complicate matters for a normal client
13:46alkisg has joined #ltsp
13:46
<ltsppbot>
"_UsUrPeR_" pasted "another lts.conf for EAG" (9 lines) at http://pastebot.ltsp.org/128
13:47
<_UsUrPeR_>
EAG: give that a shot instead
13:47
<warren>
_UsUrPeR_: doesn't your company sell LTSP tech support? =)
13:47spectra has quit IRC
13:47* alkisg has something very broken in his laptop... X crashes randomly
13:47
<_UsUrPeR_>
warren: Philanthropy is it's own reward sometimes...
13:48
other times it may get me fired ;)
13:49
warren: mind giving me a few hints on adding some case statements to my ltsp-localappsd client daemon?
13:49
<warren>
_UsUrPeR_: I bill at $0/hr
13:49
<_UsUrPeR_>
then you, sir, are hired
13:50
<warren>
hurray! I got a job in this crummy economy.
13:50
do I get health care?
13:50
_UsUrPeR_: paste what you have
13:50
<_UsUrPeR_>
gimme a second to paste.
13:50
<Q-FUNK>
heh
13:52
<warren>
_UsUrPeR_: btw, are you folks active in the upstream openchrome dev? at least testing and reporting?
13:52
_UsUrPeR_: your company seems very reliant on openchrome not sucking
13:53
_UsUrPeR_: when Alex and Ron came to the hackfest I suggested I not receive the latest dual monitor thin client since I wouldn't be useful in the driver dev
13:54
<_UsUrPeR_>
warren: no reported bugs yet, but I am building a mental queue. I have bigger fish to fry atm
13:55
<warren>
_UsUrPeR_: there is ONE guy in Red Hat that would be especially awesome to get via hardware to that would be helpful, but he's in Australia.
13:55
_UsUrPeR_: well, your DVI needing manual config options thing is a bug
13:55
<CAN-o-SPAM>
warren: whose that
13:55
<warren>
CAN-o-SPAM: David Airlie
13:56
CAN-o-SPAM: see if you can get your supplier in Asia to send him stuff directly, might be cheaper to ship
13:56
<_UsUrPeR_>
We can hire him for $0/hr too :D
13:56
<warren>
CAN-o-SPAM: as usual, no guarantees that we can fix anything in particular, but things get fixed faster when he has hardware
13:57
<CAN-o-SPAM>
warren: can you faciliate some sort of introduced conversation between him and myself?
13:57
<warren>
he almost single handedly got most newer radeon modesetting and 3D working
13:57
CAN-o-SPAM: he's too busy for that...
13:57
CAN-o-SPAM: he's a bit nicer than other X devs though...
13:58
<CAN-o-SPAM>
warren: how am i going to send a guy some hardware and not talk to him?
13:58* CAN-o-SPAM is confused.
13:58
<warren>
well, his timezone is opposite side of planet from you
13:58
<CAN-o-SPAM>
it's a good thing us youngin's like to howl at the moon ...
13:58
<warren>
get off my lawn!
13:59
<_UsUrPeR_>
lol
13:59* warren is getting old.
13:59
<warren>
I am not enjoying video games anymore.
13:59
time to just give up
13:59
<_UsUrPeR_>
that's sad
13:59
<warren>
_UsUrPeR_: where is your paste?
14:00
<_UsUrPeR_>
warren: I over-wrote my case stuff. flpxj
14:00* _UsUrPeR_ is looking
14:00
<warren>
CAN-o-SPAM: let me talk to him privately first
14:00
CAN-o-SPAM: i'll get back to you
14:01
CAN-o-SPAM: but really, this shouldn't be your company's responsibilty to get the X driver working properly, VIA should be paying for this hardware to send to X developers.
14:01
CAN-o-SPAM: well... VIA actually is paying Harald now... but it could go faster with other key developers with hardware
14:01
<lipinski>
alkisg: I can finally log into the client as a user, but can't do anything as root - I have added the user to sudo group, but to no avail.
14:01cliebow has quit IRC
14:02
<lipinski>
alkisg: I set a root passwd, but it tells me the account is expired
14:02
<alkisg>
lipinski: duh... it's another hardy bug, you need to unlock the root account
14:02
Anyone remembers the command? change age or something?
14:03
<CAN-o-SPAM>
warren: any contacts at VIA by chance?
14:03
<warren>
CAN-o-SPAM: well... Harald
14:03
<lipinski>
alkisg: FWIW - This is Intrepid/8.10
14:03
<warren>
CAN-o-SPAM: Harald is upstream kernel, X and now VIA representative
14:03
<_UsUrPeR_>
warren: can't find old failed stuff. I'll copy-pasta what I have working for a single function...
14:04
<alkisg>
lipinski: really? I thought it was fixed in intrepid (but I always build the image with ltsp-build-image --prompt-rootpass, the bug doesn't occur then...)
14:04
lipinski: chroot and then chage <somethink, maybe it was -1?>
14:04
<warren>
CAN-o-SPAM: http://lwn.net/Articles/308234/ this most recent news is very promising. Harald has been steadily helping VIA to open up, cooperate with the community and suck less.
14:05
<ltsppbot>
"_UsUrPeR_" pasted "ltsp-locapappsd examples" (64 lines) at http://pastebot.ltsp.org/129
14:06
<_UsUrPeR_>
locapappsd... it's actually a medication I take....
14:06
<lipinski>
alkisg: chage -E -1 root seems to be it. Rebuilding image....
14:07
alkisg: with SCREEN_02 =shell, where will I find the appropraite logs regarding no login screen and the flickering xauth message?
14:07bobby_C has joined #ltsp
14:07
<alkisg>
lipinski: you should try X -configure and then see the logs in /var/log/Xorg.?.log
14:08
<lipinski>
alkisg: will do - thanks.
14:08
<_UsUrPeR_>
lipinski: should be in /var/log/X.???.log for the flicker
14:08
<EAG>
_UsUrPeR_: thx, I tried that as well, but it made no difference
14:08
<_UsUrPeR_>
:/
14:08
<lipinski>
_UsUrPeR_: I looked there, but when I set SCREEN_02=shell, there is no X*log under /var/log
14:09
<EAG>
warren: no nv should be ok. I am trying that now, but it doest help either
14:09
<lipinski>
hopefully X -configure will generate one.
14:09
<_UsUrPeR_>
hopefully, yes
14:09
<lipinski>
FYI - I tried setting XSERVER = via in lts.conf, but that didn't help the flicker problem.
14:09
<EAG>
shouldnt the client "normally" find all resolutions supported by the monitors?
14:10
I know my crt is crap so it is very likely the problem here...
14:11
<_UsUrPeR_>
warren: so what I am thinking is an if then for the LTSP_COMMAND line. If $1 = lp, it works. if $1 = xterm, it works, if $1 = anything else, it does not.
14:12
<warren>
_UsUrPeR_: too vague, show me code with comments
14:12
_UsUrPeR_: write a new shell script with only those lines
14:12
<_UsUrPeR_>
warren: roger.
14:12
<alkisg>
EAG: did you try "getltscfg X_HORZSYNC" on the client? My X crashed and I didn't see if you answered...
14:12
<EAG>
ah no, I forgot you sorry ;)
14:13
I am checking now
14:13
<alkisg>
EAG, and I'm not sure if it makes any difference, but I have X_HORZSYNC=30-70 without quotes on my lts.conf.
14:14
<EAG>
hmm apparently I cant install that program
14:14
<alkisg>
EAG, it's already installed
14:14
It's on the chroot.
14:14
You have to boot a terminal, logon into it, and then run the command
14:15
<EAG>
I am in the terminal now
14:15
<alkisg>
EAG, you have ubuntu 8.04 and no getltscfg?
14:15
<EAG>
yup
14:16
<alkisg>
On the thin client?
14:16
<EAG>
mm
14:16
I am using the thin client now as we speak
14:16
(not the irc-client though)
14:17
getltscfg
14:17
The program 'getltscfg' is currently not installed. You can install it by typing:
14:17
<alkisg>
In the server, it should be in /opt/ltsp/i386/usr/bin/getltscfg ... I don't know why it isn't there in yours.
14:17
<EAG>
sudo apt-get install ltsp-client-core
14:18
./getltscfg X_HORZSYNC
14:18
Error retrieving file stats for file [/etc/lts.conf]: No such file or directory
14:18
weird...
14:18
it should read from the lts.conf in /var/lib/tftp.. right?
14:18
<alkisg>
EAG, when a thin client boots, it transfers lts.conf to /etc/ via tftp
14:19
EAG, but your TC doesn't, and I think you should solve this problem first....
14:20
<EAG>
to /opt/ltsp/i386/etc?
14:20
or /etc
14:20
<alkisg>
EAG, on the server, it's on /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/lts.conf
14:21
When the thin client boots, it transfers it to /etc/lts.conf
14:21
<EAG>
ok, yeah.. something isnt working then
14:21
<ltsppbot>
"_UsUrPeR_" pasted "For warren" (85 lines) at http://pastebot.ltsp.org/130
14:21
<lipinski>
alkisg: X -configure worked fine - it created /root/xorg.conf.new and I tested it with X -config /root/xorg.conf.new - and got the black & white screen with the X mouse pointer
14:21
<alkisg>
lipinski: then use it... :)
14:22
lipinski: copy it to the chroot, and put an X_CONF=... in lts.conf
14:22
(and update image...)
14:22
<warren>
_UsUrPeR_: SOMETHING=somethingelse sets SOMETHING variable to contain somethingelse
14:23
_UsUrPeR_: put a space on both sides of =
14:23
_UsUrPeR_: also wrap the entire thing in [ ]
14:23
<EAG>
this mess makes me sick :(
14:23
<rjune>
warren do you know ogra's email address?
14:23
<_UsUrPeR_>
warren: is $1 the proper variable passed from ltsp_localapps?\
14:24
<warren>
rjune: just commit something that relies on bash syntax into ltsp-trunk, he'll contact you within a few minutes, much faster to get his attention that way.
14:24
<johnny>
lol
14:24
<_UsUrPeR_>
heh
14:24
<warren>
_UsUrPeR_: what script is this?
14:24
<_UsUrPeR_>
warren: ltsp_localappsd
14:25
<warren>
_UsUrPeR_: then no
14:25
rjune: ogra@ ?
14:26* _UsUrPeR_ looks at ltsp_localapps
14:26
<_UsUrPeR_>
warren: so it's $LTSP_COMMAND then?
14:26
<warren>
_UsUrPeR_: if [ "$STRINGVARIABLE" = "something" ]; then
14:26
this is a more proper syntax
14:26
put the variable you are testing on the left
14:27
_UsUrPeR_: appears so, yes.
14:27* _UsUrPeR_ gives this a shot
14:29
<rjune>
warren: while that might work, he's on a plane over the atlantic
14:30captain_magnus is now known as bitfinder
14:30bitfinder is now known as captain_magnus
14:31
<warren>
CAN-o-SPAM: you still here?
14:32* CAN-o-SPAM waves.
14:32airlied has joined #ltsp
14:32
<warren>
airlied: hey
14:33
<airlied>
hey.
14:33
<warren>
First some introductions
14:34
CAN-o-SPAM here works for disklessworkstations.com, a small American company that sells diskless netboot clients. They founded LTSP a decade ago and funded a lot of the community development.
14:34
airlied: they are pretty heavily dependent on VIA chipsets
14:34
airlied: so it is up to them to either send you stuff directly, or from Asia, or convince VIA or Harald Welte to send you stuff.
14:35
airlied: the other possibility here might help you with your dev & testing of all other chipsets
14:35
airlied: LTSP framework included in Fedora since F9 might allow you to more rapidly test new builds of X, kernels and drivers on a wide variety of your boxes.
14:36
airlied: just drop new builds into chroots and reboot your machines that PXE boot from that chroot
14:36
<airlied>
I'd be happy to have a few different variants running Fedora so we can play about, I'm hoping to get a private network segment at some point
14:36
so I can do my own PXE server.
14:36
<CAN-o-SPAM>
hi airlied
14:36
<airlied>
at the moment my lab is beholden to the IS people.
14:36
I talked to VIA at LPC but I've totally forgotten the guys name.
14:36
CAN-o-SPAM: hey.
14:36
<warren>
airlied: following my guide you can have an isolated network segment booting diskless clients within minutes.
14:37
<CAN-o-SPAM>
airlied: you are a developer for Red Hat right?
14:37
<airlied>
CAN-o-SPAM: yes.
14:37
<warren>
airlied: LTSP tools in F9 and F10 can install Fedora (and soon RHEL5) chroots and make them netboot real easy.
14:38
<airlied>
CAN-o-SPAM: mainly working on Intel/ATI but any graphics hw I have I attempt to keep working.
14:38
<CAN-o-SPAM>
airlied: have you worked with any VIA yet?
14:39
<warren>
CAN-o-SPAM: I think he's suggesting he can only work on stuff if he has hardware.
14:39
<airlied>
CAN-o-SPAM: not recently, I played with some in my last job for a while.
14:39
<CAN-o-SPAM>
right ...
14:39
<warren>
CAN-o-SPAM: I personally have been able to get kernel and netboot stuff working real well on everything you sent me, but I have only been able to facilitate working with X developers on the X issues, which has been slow.
14:40
CAN-o-SPAM: (although hardware in my office has the double benefit of being tested for both LTSP and Qumranet thin clients)
14:41
CAN-o-SPAM: so uh... talk to your supplier in Asia and Harald Welte, try to get VIA to send airlied hardware now, and new stuff as it comes out.
14:41BrunoXLambert has quit IRC
14:41
<airlied>
Harald knows me, and so those some guy in VIA.
14:41
<warren>
good
14:41
<airlied>
I really wish I remembed his name, we talked for 2 hours at LPC
14:41
<CAN-o-SPAM>
airlied: would you mind e-mailing me your contact information?
14:41
<airlied>
CAN-o-SPAM: no worries.
14:42
<warren>
airlied: let me know when you want to setup your own isolated netboot network segment
14:42
<airlied>
warren: will do.
14:42
<warren>
airlied: I really think this can speed your general dev/testing
14:42
with other hardware
14:42
<CAN-o-SPAM>
airlied: alexc@disklessworkstations.com
14:42
<warren>
airlied: I already got kernel modesetting driver loading into F10 mkinitrd for netboot.
14:43
<airlied>
warren: cool, I'd like to do some kms for via as well.
14:43
<warren>
airlied: if the kernel supports a new chipset for modesetting, it will automatically pull it into the initrd and netboot will do it even before it mounts the remote rootfs.
14:43
airlied: due to limitations non-netboot wont do this yet
14:48nobios has joined #ltsp
14:49
<_UsUrPeR_>
warren: new iteration. This appears to freeze X when I log on to the client. Mouse still moves, the wallpaper loads, but that's about it
14:50
<warren>
hmm
14:50
_UsUrPeR_: GNOME?
14:50
_UsUrPeR_: same freeze if you log into KDE or something else?
14:50
you might be hitting a GNOME bug
14:50
<ltsppbot>
"_UsUrPeR_" pasted "for warren pt deux" (78 lines) at http://pastebot.ltsp.org/131
14:50
<_UsUrPeR_>
warren: yes, gnome
14:51
warren: lemme try KDE
14:51
warren: waitaminute, I don't have KDE installed on this server...
14:51
<warren>
XFCE? twm?
14:51
anything non-GNOME
14:52
<_UsUrPeR_>
warren: booting now. I don't believe this anything but... yeah, just failsafe and gnome :/
14:53
I can't quite add a new windows manager tot his either...
14:53
<nubae>
to unlock root account simply do #
14:53
<warren>
failsafe I think wont test it properly
14:53Blinny has quit IRC
14:54
<warren>
_UsUrPeR_: it logs in properly if you restore the original script?
14:54BrunoXLambert has joined #ltsp
14:54
<warren>
_UsUrPeR_: I think your comparisons of LTSP_COMMAND will not do what you expect
14:54
_UsUrPeR_: "xterm " != "xterm" for example
14:55
airlied: do you think you can re-establish communication with Harald Welte yourself?
14:55
since you already met him?
14:56
<CAN-o-SPAM>
were gunna get these VIA guys all straigtened out
14:56
they better get ahold of this Linux market before nobody buys VIA anymore
14:56
<warren>
The Linux market is likely their only chance against Atom
14:57
<CAN-o-SPAM>
airlied: thanks for your participation i will see what i can do to get you some HW to help! hopefully we can have a nice roundtable with VIA as well
14:58
<_UsUrPeR_>
warren: if I replace the LTSP_COMMAND=$(echo "${LTSP_COMMAND}"|sed -e 's/^LTSP_COMMAND = //' -e 's/^"//' -e 's/"$//') with "LTSP_COMMAND=<some program>" it will only run that program when invoked. I figured I'd give the opportunity to invoke a few programs.
14:58
but only those few programs
14:58
<airlied>
warren: yeah I could give him a shout as well.
14:58
<warren>
airlied: thanks
15:02alkisg has quit IRC
15:05BrunoXLambert has quit IRC
15:06
<nobios>
hi there...
15:07
I'm having some trouble making some old machines working in ltsp-5 with ubuntu
15:08
they're working, but we have to wait a lot of time after receiving the nbi.img file
15:08
<vagrantc>
what's the processor speed, ram, etc. on the thin clients?
15:09
<_UsUrPeR_>
warren: rebooted client, client comes back now
15:09
<nobios>
k6 2 500mhz with 64 mb ram
15:10
<warren>
_UsUrPeR_: so you are implementing a whitelist?
15:10
<vagrantc>
nobios: a little shy on ram ... but i'd like to think that would be sufficient...
15:10
<_UsUrPeR_>
warren: correct
15:10
<warren>
_UsUrPeR_: I suppose a whitelist is something we want upstream...
15:10
<nobios>
vagrantc: I have one with 128mb and having the same "problem"
15:10
<_UsUrPeR_>
warren: bawww, seriously? That would be sweet.
15:11
<warren>
vagrantc: do you agree a LTSP_COMMAND whitelist would be good upstream?
15:12
_UsUrPeR_: the complication would be long commands like the lp thing you want
15:12
<vagrantc>
warren: sounds like an excellent feature.
15:12
<nobios>
I changed some values in pxelinux.cfg/default but didn't help either
15:12
<warren>
vagrantc: LOCAL_APPS_WHITELIST unset by default, if unset no restrictions. If set, then only those are allowed?
15:13
<vagrantc>
warren: seems simple enough.
15:13
warren: implemented in the ltsp-localappsd, yes?
15:13
<warren>
ok, then multi-word whitelist members make this difficult...
15:13
vagrantc: yes
15:13
<vagrantc>
multi-word is very difficult, yes.
15:13
<warren>
vagrantc: any thoughts about whitelist syntax?
15:13
perhaps colon separated members?
15:14
<vagrantc>
i generally prefer commas
15:14
though should we really be concerned about whitespace in linux commands?
15:14
<warren>
vagrantc: we want something that is not a valid command shell character...
15:14
<vagrantc>
how many people are stupid enough to implement a command with whitespace in it?
15:14* warren points at _UsUrPeR_
15:14
<warren>
=)
15:15Ahmuck has quit IRC
15:15
<_UsUrPeR_>
wat
15:15
<vagrantc>
oh, commands with options and such?
15:15
<warren>
yes
15:15
<_UsUrPeR_>
vagrantc: yeah.
15:15
<vagrantc>
ah.
15:15
<_UsUrPeR_>
xterm -e and whatnot
15:15
<vagrantc>
then i'd say go for commas, unless there's a good reason not to
15:15
<warren>
although, to make this simpler and easier to secure, perhaps the whitelist should allow ONLY single word members.
15:15
<vagrantc>
warren: yeah, that would be really simple.
15:16
<warren>
and you need to have your own shell script in the chroot
15:16
<vagrantc>
admins can write scripts client-side if they need special options
15:16
<warren>
for complicated commands
15:16
/usr/bin/DOWHATIWANT
15:16pmatulis has quit IRC
15:17
<nobios>
be right back
15:17
<warren>
vagrantc: err, how do you tokenize in sh?
15:17nobios has left #ltsp
15:18
<vagrantc>
warren: tokenize?
15:18
<warren>
vagrantc: substring with delimiters
15:18
one:two:three:four
15:18
one
15:18
two
15:18
three
15:18
four
15:18
etc.
15:19
vagrantc: err... I suppose there isn't any good reason not to allow spaces
15:19
<vagrantc>
that's what i'm inclined to think.
15:20
<warren>
but I still don't know a good way to tokenize
15:20
<vagrantc>
i'm not quite getting what you mean...
15:20
maybe looping through the whitelist?
15:20
<warren>
vagrantc: you have a shell string "one!two!three!four"
15:20
you need to substring with a delimiter !
15:21
<vagrantc>
IFS or cut or awk ...
15:21
no?
15:21
<warren>
vagrantc: hmm... commas could be a valid command
15:21
<vagrantc>
warren: in theory, or in reality?
15:22
<warren>
vagrantc: it will catch someone by surprise one day and it will be a bug in LTSP
15:22
vagrantc: commas are used in media processing apps commonly
15:22
image and movie manipulation
15:22
<vagrantc>
a command named "foo,bar" ?
15:22
<warren>
no no
15:22
vagrantc: if we allow multi-word commands
15:22
if we don't allow multi-word commands then we dont need to worry about our choice of delimiter
15:23* vagrantc prefers that option
15:23
<warren>
well.... filenames can have commas..
15:23
<vagrantc>
and :
15:23
<warren>
yeah
15:23
<vagrantc>
and ! is not very useable.
15:24
<warren>
I'm told that the only characters disallowed in filenames are / and \0
15:24
neither of which we can use
15:24
<vagrantc>
when choosing a delimiter, there will be *some* problem someday with someone who can't use that delimeter.
15:24
we just need to document that limitation and try not to choose one that's obviously bad all the time
15:25
<warren>
I suppose commas are OK.
15:25
<vagrantc>
or just use whitespace, which is really my preferred option :)
15:25
<warren>
oh
15:26
_UsUrPeR_: you ok with this? due to sh sucking and to maximize security, whitelist can only be a single word
15:26
_UsUrPeR_: so you need to drop shell scripts into your chroot to run multi-word commnads
15:26* _UsUrPeR_ reads above. just got back to desk
15:27* warren tests this in dash just to appease everyone else
15:27
<vagrantc>
warren: the only other option i would see is to use a configurable delimeter, but that's getting pretty insane.
15:28
<warren>
yes
15:28
you are stupid if you have an executable with a comma in it
15:28
if someone reports a bug, CLOSE STUPID
15:28
<_UsUrPeR_>
warren: single words, for my purposes, will be fine. I can just create a script pertaining to complicated commands
15:29
<vagrantc>
actually....
15:29
we could just match against the first part of the command ... i.e. "xterm -e" would be allowed if "xterm" was in the whitelist.
15:30
and if they want to restrict allowable options, they'd have to use a script
15:31nobios has joined #ltsp
15:31Q-FUNK has quit IRC
15:31
<vagrantc>
course, then we have to watch for things like ... xterm -e ; su - xterm
15:31
or whatever.
15:31
maybe that's even a hole in the code right now ...
15:32nobios has quit IRC
15:32
<warren>
vagrantc: not really, if someone wants to use a whitelist, then they are paranoid
15:32nobios has joined #ltsp
15:32
<warren>
vagrantc: you don't want to pass arbitrary options after a whitelisted command
15:33
well .... hmmm
15:33
<vagrantc>
just trying to explore all the options...
15:33
<nobios>
hello again...
15:33
<vagrantc>
for ultimate paranoia, running a custom script is the only sane option.
15:33
<warren>
vagrantc: another option would be to pass the entire string to be executed to /usr/bin/localapps-launch
15:33
<vagrantc>
well, i guess that's shy of ultimate...
15:34
<warren>
vagrantc: /usr/bin/localapps-launch can do its own policy decisions and leave LTSP out of it
15:34
<vagrantc>
warren: or a LOCALAPP_LAUNCHER ?
15:34
<warren>
LOCAL_APPS_LAUNCHER unset by default
15:34
if defined use it
15:34
don't execute directly
15:35
<johnny>
but don't take away the rights of people who are not so paranoid :)
15:35
<warren>
vagrantc: the thing is, I'm not entirely sure how to protect from things like:
15:35
<nobios>
vagrantc: I tested a p3 750 mhz with 256 mb.. and still the same waiting occurs
15:35
<warren>
exec /usr/bin/my-localapps-launcher foobar baz; do something evil here
15:35
<vagrantc>
nobios: not quite sure what your problem is ... i have to get back to work soon
15:36
<warren>
johnny: whitelist or filtering wont be enabled at all if you don't enable it
15:36
<vagrantc>
warren: run it su'ed and quoted like we do now? so the "; evil" would be contained?
15:36
<warren>
vagrantc: whitelisting without any option to pass options would make it impossible to do things like:
15:36
ltsp-localapps /usr/bin/gimp /home/username/something.png
15:37
<lipinski>
How unsecure is LDX_DIRECTX = true?
15:37
<warren>
lipinski: completely insecure
15:37
lipinski: anybody packet sniffing can see everything that happens and everything you type
15:37
<vagrantc>
well, the password still goes over ssh :)
15:37
<lipinski>
Any other ideas how to speed up responsiveness of clients that are connected to the server via wireless?
15:37
<warren>
lipinski: the only protected thing is your initial name and password since that is ssh. everything you do afterward is unprotected.
15:38Q-FUNK has joined #ltsp
15:38
<warren>
lipinski: wireless is not recommended for exactly that reason...
15:38
<lipinski>
I'm stuck with wireless for a few more months, but it is very slow. Even with only 2 clients.
15:38
<vagrantc>
wireless LTSP is somewhat of a novelty :)
15:38
<warren>
I am not aware of any wireless cards that support netboot.
15:39
although you can use wireless bridge back to ethernet and netboot over that
15:39
<lipinski>
Well, I have a client connected to a wireless router which is acting like a bridge
15:39
<johnny>
hmm.. perhaps a wirleess card with a mini OS ..
15:39
<lipinski>
warren: exactly.
15:39
<johnny>
lipinski, you could experiment with NX
15:39
<lipinski>
If the wireless is encrypted - is LDM_DIRECTX still a bad idea?
15:39
johnny: what is NX?
15:40
johnny: FYI - Got my ltsp-build-client problem resolved today (if you remember from last night).
15:40
<johnny>
lipinski, if you trust all your users who have access not to go snooping around.. it's not that bad
15:40
or even know how to snoop around :)
15:40
<warren>
vagrantc: how exactly does su and quoted protect against ; evil?
15:41
<johnny>
lipinski, look it up.. :)
15:41
<lipinski>
johnny: users have no idea how to snoop - they don't even know how to get to or use a terminal. Let alone how to use a sniffer.
15:41
<johnny>
nomachine
15:42
lipinski, as long as it is encrypted with WPA vs WEP with good passphrases.. it won't be much worst of a security issue than wired
15:42
<vagrantc>
lipinski: it's less bad, but still bad
15:42
lipinski: or more bad, if you have the delusion that you're actually secure
15:42
warren: running it as the user, so it's not run as root?
15:43
<warren>
vagrantc: that still does not prevent an option to become an arbitrary command that bypasses the whitelist
15:43
<johnny>
and what does..
15:43
<vagrantc>
warren: can we ignore everything after the ; ?
15:43
<lipinski>
vagrantc: well, I'm connected to the "internet", so I never feel secure.
15:43
<warren>
well, there are all sorts of other ways to run arbitrary commands
15:43
; evil
15:43
<johnny>
i think you can't go much farther than the security of the underlying system
15:43
<warren>
&& evil
15:43
|| evil
15:44
something { evil }
15:44
<vagrantc>
warren: hmmm... well, we can't be perfect, only try to do a reasonably good job. :)
15:44
<johnny>
i think time would be better spent hardening the system itself
15:44
<warren>
right
15:44
anyway, I have a single word with no option whitelist implementation done NOW
15:44
<_UsUrPeR_>
warren: hit me up.
15:45
<johnny>
_UsUrPeR_, we plan on hax0ring you anyways
15:45
<warren>
I'm not happy that it disallows legitimate things like ltsp-localapps /usr/bin/gimp /home/username/something.png
15:45
<_UsUrPeR_>
johnny: I would expect nothing but :)
15:45
<johnny>
lol
15:45* vagrantc disappears into the ether of freegeek
15:45
<ltsppbot>
"warren" pasted "single word whitelist demo" (11 lines) at http://pastebot.ltsp.org/132
15:46
<warren>
This would be THE most secure way of doing it.
15:47* warren tests something else
15:47
<_UsUrPeR_>
warren: that goes on the client? just another executable in /usr/bin/?
15:48
<warren>
_UsUrPeR_: that basic logic goes into localappsd to decide if it should run something
15:48
_UsUrPeR_: another option we're thinking is to add a LOCAL_APPS_LAUNCHER option that passes the entire command to it.
15:48
_UsUrPeR_: so you write your own /usr/bin/my-localapps-launcher which decides itself if a command is good or not.
15:48
I think LTSP perhaps should stay out of policy
15:49
at least this type of policy
15:49
<_UsUrPeR_>
warren: rgr.
15:49Ahmuck has joined #ltsp
15:49
<warren>
I'm thinking
15:49
<_UsUrPeR_>
this goes above the "#initialize LTSP_COMMAND as blank" line?
15:50
<warren>
no
15:53
OK, I'm leaning towards the LOCAL_APPS_LAUNCHER option, and I'll supply a sample launcher script
15:54
<_UsUrPeR_>
k
15:55
<warren>
Whoever wrote LTSP_COMMAND_WAIT, shame on you for not documenting it.
15:55* warren probably wrote other options that were not documented
16:01* _UsUrPeR_ is out for the day.
16:01
<_UsUrPeR_>
later all
16:01
<warren>
_UsUrPeR_: i'll e-mail hte list hwen I have something
16:01Q-FUNK has quit IRC
16:07Lns has joined #ltsp
16:11
<_UsUrPeR_>
k
16:13etyack has quit IRC
16:14
<warren>
_UsUrPeR_: crap, I found a security hole in the existing code because of you
16:15CAN-o-SPAM has quit IRC
16:18
<EAG>
hmm something has gone really wrong if I end up with "(initramfs)" as a prompt right? :)
16:19
"BusyBox v1.1.3 (Debian 1.. bla bla) "
16:20
<johnny>
usually i get that.. if the nic module isn't included.. or couldn't get to the dhcp or ltsp server
16:20
<EAG>
ok
16:21
but this comes after ubuntu (in this case) usplash comes up
16:26six2one has quit IRC
16:31Eghie has quit IRC
16:36ltsppbot has quit IRC
16:41ltsppbot has joined #ltsp
16:43warren__ has joined #ltsp
16:43warren has quit IRC
16:44warren__ is now known as warren
16:45david_ has quit IRC
16:45vplug has joined #ltsp
16:45vplug has left #ltsp
16:46nubae has quit IRC
16:50
<warren>
this is interesting... xatomwait is segfaulting even before it gets any command
16:56mikkel has quit IRC
16:57
<warren>
has nobody else seen xatomwait segfault during login?
17:03
<vagrantc>
warren: shame on me.
17:03
<warren>
grrr
17:03
I set it to dump core
17:03
and it wont crash anymore
17:04
<vagrantc>
warren: is it LTSP_COMMAND_WAIT that's segfaulting?
17:04
<warren>
I don't use LTSP_COMMAND_WAIT
17:24mccann has quit IRC
17:40dirigeant has quit IRC
17:41johnny has left #ltsp
17:47bobby_C has quit IRC
18:06Lns has quit IRC
18:07johnny has joined #ltsp
18:21nobios has quit IRC
18:32pscheie_ has joined #ltsp
18:49pscheie has quit IRC
18:52Shingoshi has quit IRC
18:53ltsppbot has quit IRC
18:56staffencasa has quit IRC
18:56ltsppbot has joined #ltsp
19:06chrisinajar has quit IRC
19:06brendan0powers has quit IRC
19:07brendan__ has quit IRC
19:15Ahmuck has quit IRC
19:15Ahmuck has joined #ltsp
19:21
<warren>
cyberorg: ping
19:34klausade has quit IRC
19:36brendan0powers has joined #ltsp
19:39johnny has left #ltsp
19:39vagrantc has quit IRC
19:54nobios has joined #ltsp
20:04johnny has joined #ltsp
20:05ninkendo has quit IRC
20:13Ahmuck has quit IRC
20:16japerry has quit IRC
20:17thelmara has joined #ltsp
20:17leio has quit IRC
20:18
<thelmara>
Hi - Im using K12Linux (Fedora Core 9), following the k12 Install Guide. ltsp-build-client isnt in my $PATH, and i dont know where to find it to run it. Can anybody point me to it?
20:29nobios has quit IRC
20:30nobios has joined #ltsp
20:32nobios has quit IRC
20:41ltsppbot has quit IRC
20:46ltsppbot has joined #ltsp
20:48petre has joined #ltsp
20:48petre_ has joined #ltsp
20:48petre has quit IRC
20:48petre_ has quit IRC
20:48petre has joined #ltsp
20:53Shingoshi has joined #ltsp
20:59mccann has joined #ltsp
20:59mccann has quit IRC
21:18ball has joined #ltsp
21:23shogunx has quit IRC
21:24japerry has joined #ltsp
21:26japerry has joined #ltsp
21:29topslakr__ has quit IRC
21:29topslakr has joined #ltsp
21:36alkisg has joined #ltsp
21:37shogunx has joined #ltsp
21:39Shingoshi has quit IRC
21:40Shingoshi has joined #ltsp
21:45shogunx has quit IRC
21:54petre has quit IRC
22:02CaScAdE^1arAway has joined #ltsp
22:05CaScAdE^FarAway has quit IRC
22:35shogunx has joined #ltsp
22:36leio has joined #ltsp
22:44
<cyberorg>
warren, pong
22:44
<warren>
cyberorg: you mentioned getting nxagent working a few months ago, what version of the X server was that?
22:44* warren suspects NX is just broken with modern X
22:44
<warren>
NX is so full of fail
22:45
<ball>
Is NX the non-execute bit?
22:45
<warren>
ball: nomachine.com
22:45
<ball>
oh.
22:46
<warren>
I got nxagent to work *once* in that mode out of 20 tries
22:46
having changed nothing
22:46
cyberorg: was that i386 or x86_64?
22:47
<cyberorg>
warren, it was on opensuse 11.0, i can test on 11.1 using the latest X if you want, i386
22:47
<warren>
X 1.5?
22:47
It could just be broken on x86_64
22:47
cyberorg: does OpenSuSE retain the ancient /usr/X11R6 compat directory symlinks?
22:47Loto__ has joined #ltsp
22:47mccann has joined #ltsp
22:48
<warren>
cyberorg: also what version of nx?
22:48
<cyberorg>
warren, i have /usr/X11R6/lib/modules/dri.old /usr/lib/dri at the moment
22:49
<warren>
that's the only thing in /usr/X11R6?
22:49
<cyberorg>
/usr/X11R6/bin/xauth -> ../../bin/xauth
22:49
<warren>
no font symlink?
22:49
<cyberorg>
no
22:50lipinski has left #ltsp
22:50
<cyberorg>
you can check out our nx package, may be they patched it a bit
22:50
<ball>
is 64M enough RAM for an X terminal?
22:50
(given local swap)?
22:50
<loather-work>
that's pushing it
22:50
<warren>
cyberorg: URL?
22:50
ball: just barely
22:50
<cyberorg>
http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/NX/openSUSE_Factory/src/
22:50
<loather-work>
i wouldn't go any less than 128MB, and even then i'd want more RAM
22:50
<warren>
ball: you definitely need nbd swap, and it might not be stable
22:51
<cyberorg>
that is the very latest NX
22:51
<ball>
Hmm... perhaps I can find another DIMM laying around here somewhere
22:51
what's nbd?
22:51
<warren>
cyberorg: NX 3.3.0 was released Nov 21st
22:51
cyberorg: might want to tell your people
22:52
<cyberorg>
those guys are quick, new packages will be up there soon :)
22:52
<warren>
their freenx version is old
22:52
0.7.3 was out for a long time
22:59
<cyberorg>
warren, does fedora have xrdp?
22:59
<ball>
warren: The box can take up to 512 Mbytes of RAM, but it's probably not worth upgrading
22:59
<warren>
cyberorg: what is it?
23:00
http://xrdp.sourceforge.net/ fork of rdesktop?
23:00
<cyberorg>
rdesktop would be client, xrdp server
23:01
<warren>
oh
23:01
how mature is it?
23:01keithclark has joined #ltsp
23:02
<cyberorg>
we are using it for nomad project http://en.opensuse.org/Nomad
23:02
it works out of box using ltsp's rdesktop script
23:03
as RDP is lightweight it might perform better than ssh
23:04
<warren>
A special RDP client is provided for openSUSE that implement nomad specific extensions for X11 protocol forwarding and the ability to composite remote desktops locally when appropriate compositing manager plug-ins are loaded.
23:04
special RDP client?
23:04
<cyberorg>
yeah, it gets compiz working on the client
23:05
<warren>
upstream rdesktop + patches?
23:05
<cyberorg>
i am not too happy with the whole thing
23:05
yes
23:05
<warren>
why not happy?
23:05
<cyberorg>
http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/home:/hfiguiere:/Factory/openSUSE_Factory/src/
23:07
well like a typical novell project, it is developed in house and then open sourced
23:08
<johnny>
or a typical redhat project.. open sourced.. but still developed in house before distribution
23:08* johnny pokes davidz
23:08
<johnny>
hehe
23:09
<cyberorg>
few students would be joining for their college project, i would be putting them on getting local device support using ltspfs with rdesktop
23:11
<johnny>
uggh.. why must evo print such an annoying mailcheck dialog
23:11
why can't it be integrated into the window..
23:12
i have evo-rss.. and it takes awhile for it to do it's thing..
23:12
<cyberorg>
johnny, go in #opensuse-gnome and kick evo devs hanging there ;)
23:12
<johnny>
i see it checking feeds in the status area.. yet it still has a dialog
23:12
kicking people i don't know rarely gets results
23:12
<cyberorg>
i know those guys they would be happy to oblige
23:12
<johnny>
like.. i can kick warren.. and he'll jump
23:13* johnny wants to hang out with warren again
23:13
<johnny>
i need to get up to boston at some point
23:13
<warren>
cyberorg: shouldn't be hard to adapt ltspfs for other uses
23:14
cyberorg: ltspfs is packaged as an independent project
23:14
as long as it is launched properly it'll work fine
23:15
<cyberorg>
if there is anything else anyone wants for ltsp, let me know there are 4 students for about 3 months "slaving" for us
23:15
they would exclusively be working for this project
23:16
<warren>
when do they start?
23:16
<ball>
I wish I'd had a fun internship like that
23:17
<cyberorg>
after 20th
23:17
<alkisg>
ball, I have a lab with 64 MB RAM clients with local swap enabled (and USE_LOCAL_SWAP on lts.conf), they mostly work OK. Some of them crash once a week, I suspect it's a cabling problem though.
23:18
<ball>
Looks like the machine takes PC100, so I probably have some laying around.
23:19
<warren>
ball: make sure you run memtest86+ on all those machines
23:19
ball: you can run memtest86+ directly from PXE
23:19
very convenient
23:20japerry_cat has joined #ltsp
23:20* ball nods
23:20
<ball>
Good idea
23:20japerry has quit IRC
23:20alkisg has quit IRC
23:21
<warren>
cyberorg: how long ago was nomad released?
23:22
<cyberorg>
warren, it will make its first appearance when 11.1 is released later this month, it is around since betas
23:23
<warren>
cyberorg: how well does nomad work?
23:23
cyberorg: heavy load on the server I'm guessing?
23:23
<cyberorg>
it is supposed to be very lightweight, haven't tested it with a lot of clients, just locally and one client
23:24
load is supposed to be even less than xdmcp
23:24
<warren>
on the client sure
23:24
but encoding is going to cause more load on the server
23:24
XDMCP does no encoding or encryption
23:24
<cyberorg>
even on server, as it uses x proxy
23:24
<warren>
That X proxy has to run somewhere
23:24
<cyberorg>
RDP encryption is faster than ssh
23:25
<warren>
XDMCP isn't ssh
23:25
but yes, RDP would be better than X over ssh
23:25
<ball>
RDP as in VNC?
23:25
<cyberorg>
only good test is to run real clients and see :)
23:26
<warren>
ball: RDP is similar to VNC but different
23:27
<ball>
Ah, I'm thinking of RFB
23:27
Is RDP what Windows Terminal Server uses?
23:29
<cyberorg>
ball, yes, and it is coming to linux ;)
23:30
<ball>
I know there's been a client for a while.
23:31
...the server would be new though
23:31
I'm tempted to use X, but afaik there's no session mobility
23:32
<johnny>
yeah. i wish there was "screen" for X
23:32
<warren>
there is
23:32
several
23:32
of varying levels of quality
23:32
<johnny>
warren, there is?
23:32
<warren>
johnny: Xvnc -query localhost -and-other-options
23:32
<johnny>
if any of them were any good.. they'd be included with ltsp..
23:33
not vnc..
23:33
<warren>
they are not implemented in persistent mode in LTSP for various reasons
23:33
including most suck
23:33
or they require a TON of RAM on the server so are infeasible
23:33
<ball>
VNC != X11
23:33
<warren>
there were several X proxies implemented over the years
23:33
NX has a persistent proxy mode
23:36
<cyberorg>
warren, nomad does the session preserving too, so users can just switch off their terminal
23:36
<warren>
and you're telling me that doesn't cause extra load on the server?
23:37keithclark has quit IRC
23:38alkisg has joined #ltsp
23:39
<cyberorg>
warren, thing is that no one has done any benchmarks against NX yet, so we wont know :)
23:39
<warren>
that isn't surprising
23:39
NX is broken
23:47hanthana has joined #ltsp
23:57
<warren>
OH!
23:57mccann has quit IRC
23:57
<warren>
I figured out why it is broken
23:59
<cyberorg>
why?
23:59
<warren>
cyberorg: the script that guy posted to the list is broken
23:59
cyberorg: nxagent ..... &
23:59
exec gnome-session
23:59
guess what happens?
23:59alkisg has quit IRC