IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 2 January 2014   (all times are UTC)

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01:47
<Trey_>
Hello all... I have a need to share 2 windows applications at our church. We have a high speed vpn already and need a terminal solution. I would prefer to have the clients connect via web client.
01:47
After reading the documentation, I can't find whether we can serve windows applications using ltsp
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08:21
<alkisg>
vagrantc: dpkg: warning: version 'generic-pae' has bad syntax: version number does not start with digit
08:21
Found linux image: /boot/vmlinuz-generic-pae
08:21
etc, i.e. the symlinks confuse grub and go in grub.cfg
08:21
We should either only put them in tftp, from ltsp-update-kernels (I think that's best), or in a subdir, e.g. pxelinux.cfg/symlinks.
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08:45
<gdi2k>
alkisg, I took your advice and got my super cheap and nasty 1gb switch out, but still had poor iperf scores, especially when some machines were active. turns out my lan cable tester is broken, reporting bad cables as good, and a bunch of cables are in sorry state. new tester on the way. thanks for all your help
08:47
<alkisg>
gdi2k: nice catch! you're welcome
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09:47
<alkisg>
gdi2k: keep in mind that even one 100mbps client is enough to cause the server to pause (flow control issues)
09:47
So while benchmarking with the cheap switch, keep your 100mbps clients turned off
09:48
<gdi2k>
alkisg, yes, and we actually have 4 of them. I will upgrade them to 1 gb once the cabling is all sorted out
09:48
ok got it
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10:13
<prem__>
hi alkisg are you there., am checking the Wireless ltsp option
10:13
am able to retrieve the required pxelinux.0 and the vmlinuz files over tftp using ipxe boot in my client machine
10:14
but as soon it shows "Decompressing linux" ., it is trying to setup the "eth0" connection and end up with IP-Config error
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10:14
<prem__>
i can see that i have to change the startup service in the initrd image., but what exactly i have to do
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10:36
<alkisg>
prem__: didn't we say that it'll be too slow that way, and it's not even worth to try it? :)
10:36
<prem__>
alkisg, well am thinking to go with local usb boot only., but just wanted to try ths once..
10:37
how can i prepare a usb boot which will talk to the ltsp server and mount the filesystem alkisg
10:37
<alkisg>
OK, go ahead and try it, if you have some hours/days/weeks to spend... (depending on your knowledge of involved technologies etc)
10:38
<prem__>
is it enough to take the given initrd and vmlinuz images under /ltsp/i386 and use them for usb booting?
10:38
<alkisg>
!local-boot
10:38
<ltsp`>
local-boot: If you want LTSP fat clients on a low-speed network, you can put i386.img on e.g. C:\Boot\LTSP\i386.img and use this command line in pxelinux.cfg: APPEND ro initrd=ltsp/i386/initrd.img init=/sbin/init-ltsp root=/dev/sda1 rootflags=ro loop=/Boot/LTSP/i386.img; IPAPPEND 3
10:38
<alkisg>
The main image is /opt/ltsp/images/i386.img, not just the kernel/initrd
10:39
<prem__>
alkisg, will this connect with a wireless network and mount the filesystem?
10:40
<alkisg>
It will mount the filesystem from the usb stick
10:40
*After* it boots, it'll have all drivers etc so yeah you can tell it to connect wherever you like
10:40
It'll even support WPA2 connections and whatever else you want
10:41
<prem__>
alkisg, for user authentication and other harddisk space it has to talk to server ., right
10:41
<alkisg>
Yes
10:41
<prem__>
so all these can be done with this img ?
10:41
<alkisg>
But that's after it boots
10:41
<prem__>
okey..
10:43
so for copying this into a usb drive., is it enough to run "zcat i386.img > /dev/sdb"
10:43
will this create a bootable usb for client
10:43
<alkisg>
Not zcat, either plain cat or dd
10:43
No, it won't be bootable
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10:44
<alkisg>
You'll have to install grub in it, and add grub.cfg
10:44
Not many people have done what you want to do, so it's not easy and not automated
10:44
<prem__>
alkisg, its little confusing, can u make it bit more clear
10:45
i thought it is usb bootable till now
10:45
<alkisg>
*You* need to run grub-install in it to make it bootable
10:45
LTSP doesn't provide a way to create a bootable usb key
10:45
So you have to do it with console commands on your own
10:45
<prem__>
extract the i386.img ., chroot into it and install grub on it
10:45
right
10:46
<alkisg>
If you use grub2, you don't even need to extract it
10:46
You could just copy it
10:46
grub supports reading the kernel and initrd from inside squashfs images
10:47
<prem__>
alkisg, is there any document / wiki for this process
10:47
<alkisg>
No
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10:49
<alkisg>
prem__: here's a very quick how-to. That's just one way, there are many many others:
10:49
1) format your usb stick with ext4
10:49
2) rsync -a /opt/ltsp/i386/ /media/usb-stick/
10:50
3) grub-install --boot-directory=/media/usb-stick/boot /dev/sdb
10:50
4) edit /media/usb-stick/boot/grub/grub.cfg to pass the correct parameters for ltsp
10:50
5) edit /media/usb-stick/etc/NetworkManager/system-connections/* to declare your wifi connection
10:51
6) drop an appropriate lts.conf in /media/usb-stick/etc/lts.conf
10:51
I think those should do it...
10:51
<stgraber>
alkisg: ltsp merge uploaded (hopefully it'll build fine, I don't have the bandwidth to test-build here)
10:51
<prem__>
alkisg, so the entries given in grub.cfg only should give the proper authentication with the server
10:52
<alkisg>
stgraber: thanks, I'll check - do you have a link for your packaging handy?
10:52
<stgraber>
alkisg: not really, the UDD branch for LTSP is messed up... so it's unfortunately best to just grab the .debian.tar.gz from Launchpad at this point...
10:52
<alkisg>
prem__: no, grub is just for loading the kernel, the wifi connection in etc/NetworkManager/system-connections/* and lts.conf are the ones that will tell it where to connect
10:53
OK, ty
10:54
<prem__>
all the given steps will boot and mount the filesystem , and the authentication with server and mounting the server filesystem space will be done through lts.conf
10:55
<alkisg>
prem__: /home/username is mounted via sshfs upon login
10:55
while / (root) is the usb stick
10:56
<prem__>
and ltsp will take care of mounting the home folder ?
10:57
<alkisg>
Yes, ltsp mounts /home/username via sshfs upon login
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11:09
<gdi2k>
alkisg, if I upgrade my 100mbit clients to 1gb with new network cards, will I be able to netboot? Presumably there won't be bios options for that, so I may end up having to boot off USB or something via gpxe?
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11:48
<alkisg>
gdi2k: yes you'll need to put ipxe in (floppy/cd/usb/internal disk)
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13:52
<||cw>
gdi2k: what 1Gb cards? I've only used intel and broadcom add-ins and both supported PXE. just check your cards feature list
13:53
<gdi2k>
I have D-Link cards locally available here, they're Realtek based I think
13:53
if they do, how do I make it work?
13:55
<||cw>
I never had to do anything extra
13:55
maybe check bios for "other add in card" for the boot options?
13:56
<gdi2k>
ok thanks, will check that out!
14:05
<alkisg>
||cw, gdi2k: intel NICs cost about 25€ (here) and have on-NIC boot ROMs. D-link, realteks etc don't have boot ROMs, so they need iPXE, and cost about 7€.
14:06
One can buy boot roms for less than 1€, and program them with ipxe, but it's difficult to find someone with an eprom programmer...
14:08
E.g. http://www.9channel.com/taobao/product-1113331985874-8.169-million-Gigabit-network-connection-started-8,169-network-adapter-PXE-boot-ROM-PXE-PXE-boot-chip-chip-chip.html
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14:21
<gdi2k>
I am able to get these for about 18 USD http://www.dlink.com/uk/en/business-solutions/switching/network-and-switch-accessories/nic-cards-and-media-converters/dge-528t-dge-528t-copper-gigabit-pci-card-for-pc
14:21
in the specs it says it supports remote boot rem - 'Optional remote Boot ROM (p/n DGE-528R)" will that be unique to that model, or can I just pick up a generic boot rom like you linked to?
14:23
<alkisg>
All NICs support "optional boot rom"
14:23
You need a boot rom specific to that NIC
14:23
Better buy one with the rom included
14:25
<gdi2k>
ok understood - will do some hunting, but I doubt I'll find that here...
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17:11
<alkisg>
vagrantc: Houston, we have a problem
17:11
<vagrantc>
uh--oh
17:11
<alkisg>
(10:21:23 πμ) alkisg: vagrantc: dpkg: warning: version 'generic-pae' has bad syntax: version number does not start with digit
17:11
(10:21:23 πμ) alkisg: Found linux image: /boot/vmlinuz-generic-pae
17:11
(10:21:23 πμ) alkisg: etc, i.e. the symlinks confuse grub and go in grub.cfg
17:11
(10:21:59 πμ) alkisg: We should either only put them in tftp, from ltsp-update-kernels (I think that's best), or in a subdir, e.g. pxelinux.cfg/symlinks.
17:12
In other words, with ltsp-pnp, after update-kernels + update-grub, the server is unbootable :D
17:12
<vagrantc>
ouch
17:13
<alkisg>
*subdir ==> I mean pxelinux.cfg/vmlinuz-generic, pxelinux.cfg/vmlinuz-generic-pae etc etc
17:14
But I think it's best to do the symlinks from ltsp-update-kernels
17:15
Of course we can just remove the kernel_links call for now and postpone it for ltsp6...
17:16
<vagrantc>
well, the symlinks also failed to end up in the pxe menus
17:16
what's wrong with the symlinks in grub, though?
17:17
<alkisg>
vagrantc: it doesn't understand the version, can't find the respective initrd, and so the first menu entry is just the kernel => unbootable
17:17
<vagrantc>
ah
17:18
<alkisg>
It doesn't matter much about the menus.. anyone who wants static menus will do them manually anyway
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17:18
<vagrantc>
moving the symlinks to ltsp-update-kernels would require moving some of those functions to ltsp-common-functions ...
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17:18
<vagrantc>
moving the symlinks to a subdir should be pretty easy
17:19
<alkisg>
vagrantc: I think it's doable with a single small function plus the KERNEL_NAMES variable
17:19
And if the KERNEL_NAMES isn't defined, we can just skip creating the symlinks
17:20
<vagrantc>
sounds reasonable
17:20
<alkisg>
Hmm although the INITRD_NAME isn't defined
17:20
OK we'll need to define that too
17:20
Gimme 5' to create the function...
17:20
<vagrantc>
so basically those symlinks are breaking ltsp-pnp
17:21
<alkisg>
Yes, or any chroot that is somehow bootable with grub
17:21
(e.g. VM)
17:21
<vagrantc>
naming the symlinks such that grub or other bootloaders wouldn't use them would also work
17:21
i.e. ltsp-vmlinuz-generic
17:22
but moving them to ltsp-update-kernels seems like a lot of potential for breakage
17:22
alkisg: is that the only problem you've found so far?
17:23
<alkisg>
Yup
17:23
But I didn't yet do extensive testing
17:23
<vagrantc>
i guess that kind of blocks extensive testing a bit ... :)
17:23* alkisg plans to deploy all the new ltsp, ldm, ltspfs versions to schools
17:25
<alkisg>
vagrantc: what kind of breakage?
17:26
We can just omit the kernel_links call, it's not that important to have symlinks before ltsp6...
17:26
<vagrantc>
that would be easy, sure.
17:26
but it would be just as easy to rename the files or move then to a subdir
17:26
which would at least give something
17:26
since the code is basically there
17:28
<alkisg>
About the subdir, I'm worried that the extra paths add complexity to the command line
17:31
<vagrantc>
how about renamed files? i.e. ltsp-vmlinuz-FOO
17:31
i bet that would work around the problem with grub
17:32
<alkisg>
ltsp-* do work around the problem with grub...
17:32
In ltsp6, we'll do the symlinks from ltsp-update-kernels, right?
17:32
Why not just do it now?
17:32
<vagrantc>
if you think it's not too much work
17:33
<alkisg>
Btw where did that "vmlinuz" symlink come from? From the kernel postinst itself?
17:33
<vagrantc>
yeah
17:33
in /etc/kernel-img.conf something sets do_symlinks=true
17:33
but i don't think that's default anymore
17:34
alkisg: another workaround ... vmlinuz-1-generic ...
17:34
i.e. always include a digit in the version
17:34* alkisg thought of that too, vmlinuz-0-generic
17:34
<vagrantc>
or vmlinuz-3-generic
17:34
well, no, then when it's vmlinux 4.x it'd break
17:34
<alkisg>
It's not default, we put it there ourselves
17:35
<vagrantc>
for a single-kernel install, the vmlinuz symlink works for a generic symlink
17:35
<alkisg>
(we can stop putting it there if we create vmlinuz from ltsp-update-kernels...)
17:35
<vagrantc>
true enough
17:36
although i don't think we should mess with the vmlinuz symlink ...
17:36
old chroots will have it, for example
17:37
<alkisg>
I'd like us to mess with it for the following reason: we can do it better :D
17:37
...i.e.:
17:37
a) I have kernel 3.2
17:37
b) I install 3.5
17:37
c) I remove 3.5
17:37
=> I have a broken vmlinuz symlink
17:37
(with the current kernel postinst code)
17:38
<vagrantc>
yes, but if we "do it better" and then ltsp-update-kernels keeps copying the old one back into place...
17:38
then we get into exclusion games
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17:38
<vagrantc>
that's why i realized the best way to update the pxelinux.cfg/default was to not generate it in the chroot at all
17:38
<alkisg>
ltsp-update-kernels will create vmlinuz in the tftp dir, nowhere else
17:39
<vagrantc>
right, and an old chroot will have vmlinuz as well, and copy over it
17:39
<alkisg>
First copy, then create symlinks
17:39
<vagrantc>
and symlinks have... interesting behavior
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17:44
<vagrantc>
alkisg: if you think it's worth rewriting it a bit, go for it... we're not too deep into it yet
17:44
alkisg: but that seems more code than i'd want to put into 5.5
17:45* alkisg rewrites kernel_links to only need KERNEL_NAMES + INITRD_NAME, and we'll judge if it's suitable for ltsp5.5 when it's done...
17:46
<vagrantc>
sure
17:53
<alkisg>
vagrantc: http://pastie.org/8594034
17:53
It has some debugging code, e.g. echo in front of "ln"
17:56
Maybe we prefer initrd_name() to be a function instead of a variable...
17:56
Although that's kind of ugly in a conffile
18:02* vagrantc seems to recall "local" behaving differently in different shells
18:02
<alkisg>
vagrantc: no that was only for "local -"
18:03
..but I forgot to update that line with the variables needed, sorry :)
18:03
local tftp last_flavor
18:03
(the other variables are in a subshell so they don't need to be local)
18:06
<vagrantc>
alkisg: maybe find instead of ls, so could could exclude symlinks easily
18:06
alkisg: you'll want to make the symlink a relative one
18:07
ln -sf $(dirname $file)
18:07
or use shell subsitutions
18:08
<alkisg>
vagrantc: afaik it's relative...
18:08
<vagrantc>
alkisg: so basically, that loops through the flavors, making a symlink for the first (i.e. newest version) found
18:08
<alkisg>
$ sh ~/tmp/kernel-symlinks
18:08
flavor=generic-pae, last_flavor=
18:08
ln -sf vmlinuz-3.2.0-51-generic-pae /boot/vmlinuz-generic-pae
18:08
<vagrantc>
alkisg: ah, ok.
18:08
<alkisg>
Yes, and additionally it creates the vmlinuz symlink for the first kernel found
18:09
It doesn't take the preferred kernels order into account though... I don't know if it should, or if we should deprecate the ordering
18:10
<vagrantc>
well, i'd rather not touch the vmlinuz symlink
18:11
<alkisg>
ln -s || true then?
18:11
So, if it exists, don't create it?
18:11
(or plain if [ -e vmlinuz ]...
18:11
! -e
18:11
<ltsp`>
Error: "-e" is not a valid command.
18:11
<vagrantc>
then it won't get updated if it wasn't in the chroot
18:12
it'll be stuck on the first time it was run
18:12
<alkisg>
True, nice catch. We could check if it's dangling, but it gets messy.
18:12
<vagrantc>
and it might just be pointing to a present, but very old kernel
18:13
alkisg: i just don't think it's worth messing with
18:13
<alkisg>
vagrantc: I think we shouldn't modify the kernel postinst config in ltsp6
18:14
So the vmlinuz symlink won't get generated at all
18:14
<vagrantc>
yes.
18:14
and we could even drop it from 5.5
18:14
but i don't think we should mess with the link if it is present
18:14* vagrantc forgets where that is even created
18:15
<alkisg>
./ltsp-trunk/server/share/ltsp/plugins/ltsp-build-client/Debian/020-kernel-img-conf: if [ -f "$ROOT/etc/kernel-img.conf" ]; then
18:15
<vagrantc>
it's in ... tat
18:16
i think it'd be fine to just remove that plugin
18:17
wow. that code hasn't been touched since otavio and i wrote it in 2006
18:18
i don't think it's needed on wheezy ... i think it would break squeeze chroots.
18:18
but that's easy enough to apply manually to fix them
18:19
<alkisg>
Btw ltsp-pnp doesn't have the appropriate kernel-img.conf file, so I wonder why I'm getting the vmlinuz symlink
18:20
<vagrantc>
maybe ubuntu creates it by default?
18:20
<alkisg>
Ah no I have a script for that
18:20
./client/Debian/share/ltsp/cleanup.d/50-vmlinuz
18:20
<vagrantc>
ah
18:23
<alkisg>
vagrantc: so, which way do you wanna do it for ltsp5.5?
18:24
Omit creating the symlinks? Put 0 as the version? Rename the symlinks? Create them from ltsp-update-kernels?
18:24
I don't like the "0 as the version" solution, it would get ltsp-pnp users a weird entry in their grub.cfg
18:25
<vagrantc>
alkisg: the code you pasted looks good (although i'd use find instead of ls and exclude symlinks).
18:25
<alkisg>
Np, I can change it to use find
18:25
And just omit the vmlinuz symlink too?
18:25
<vagrantc>
alkisg: yeah, i'd rather just omit it
18:26
<alkisg>
OK, no problem
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18:30
<alkisg>
vagrantc: http://pastie.org/8594097
18:32
<vagrantc>
ah, using find instead of ls requires basename
18:35
<alkisg>
vagrantc: why? -printf "%f" should do it...
18:36
<vagrantc>
because i had a simpler/stupider find :)
18:36
<alkisg>
:)
18:36
No need to do the same work twice; you can do the integration instead!
18:38
<vagrantc>
alkisg: looks good.
18:38* alkisg also wants to commit http://pastie.org/8594116
18:39
<vagrantc>
how's that?
18:41
<alkisg>
That, supposedly, allows nbd-disconnect to work with any nbd root device, not just /dev/nbd0
18:41
<vagrantc>
alkisg: technically, i think it should use the last root= argument on the commandline
18:41
alkisg: so removing the break, while slightly slower, i think would be more correct.
18:42
<alkisg>
Nice, ok
18:42
<vagrantc>
alkisg: and you would want to exclude root= from the swapoff stuff, no?
18:42
<alkisg>
vagrantc: it won't show up in /proc/swaps
18:44
<vagrantc>
oh, it's just reading from /proc/swaps
18:44
so it won't support root-on-swap, but that doesn't exist as far as i know :)
18:44
<alkisg>
The issue left is that "echo >&2" does nothing with upstart, unless "console output" is specified in the upstart job
18:46
I could include the lsb-init functions... but I'd hate having to test it again :D
18:46
The messages are not important anyway
18:47
Shutting down NOW, and then it shuts down after a few msec, so there's no time to see the message anyway
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19:02
<bennabiy>
alkisg or vagrantc: Are the 5.5 changes going to affect anything which I need to be watching for on LinuxMint?
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19:09
<alkisg>
bennabiy: I don't think so, a small testing should be all that's needed
19:09
<bennabiy>
great
19:10
Do you know why trusty would fail to build?
19:20
<alkisg>
bennabiy: what failed to build?
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19:22
<James_Epp>
I feel conflicted between installing the ltsp-server package or the ltsp-server-standalone variant. On this thread (http://askubuntu.com/questions/214058/what-is-the-difference-between-ltsp-server-and-ltsp-server-standalone-packages) user Rinzwind says that ltsp-server-standalone package adds on a lot of features such as remote sound, network swap, and the like. Does the ltsp-server package have these as well? If not, can I install them
19:22
to avoid conflicts.
19:23
<vagrantc>
the ltsp-server-standalone just includes additional package dependencies, and a dhcpd.conf file that automatically configures your dhcp server
19:24
<James_Epp>
vagrantc: So there is no harm in end-user functionality if I use the ltsp-server package?
19:24
<vagrantc>
James_Epp: as long as you install all the dependencies for features they want tto use
19:25
<alkisg>
If you don't have a very specific reason not to select ltsp-server-standalone (like e.g. if you have an external dhcp server), prefer it over ltsp-server...
19:25
<vagrantc>
ltsp-server package is useful when your LTSP server is not your application server, or if you're just using fatclients.
19:25* vagrantc agrees with alkisg
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19:25
<vagrantc>
alkisg: always approaching it from the correct angle :)
19:26
<alkisg>
:)
19:26
<James_Epp>
vagrantc: Could I just as well install ltsp-server-standalone and then remove and purge isc-dhcp-server* ?
19:27
<alkisg>
apt-get install --no-install-recommends ltsp-server-standalone
19:27
(to avoid the isc-dhcp-server)
19:27* vagrantc thought it was a dependency
19:27
<James_Epp>
alkisg: The recommends for ltsp-server-standalone only includes ltsp-docs
19:27
<alkisg>
James_Epp: which version?
19:27
<James_Epp>
isc-dhcp-server is depends under this page http://packages.ubuntu.com/quantal/ltsp-server-standalone
19:27
<alkisg>
(ubuntu version)
19:27
OK I was looking at precise
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19:28
<alkisg>
Meh it's tiresome now... old ubuntu deps, new ubuntu deps, still not in sync with debian...
19:28
<James_Epp>
But I should be safe just removing dhcp afterwards, correct? There won't be any future repercussions?
19:29
<vagrantc>
isn't dnsmasq installed by default? that should satisfy the dependency
19:29
James_Epp: that would also remove ltsp-server-standalone
19:31
<James_Epp>
Darn.
19:31
<vagrantc>
James_Epp: i'd just disable the dhcp features of whichever DHCP server it pulls in
19:31
weather isc-dhcp or dnsmasq
19:31
<alkisg>
...why quantal?! :)
19:31
<James_Epp>
Do you know how to disable isc-dhcp-server? In my experience, I could not find out how. (I also have 0 experience with upstart) so I just added a stop line in /etc/rc.local. Very dirty, me no like.
19:31
<alkisg>
dnsmasq isn't installed by default, dnsmasq-base is
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19:33
<James_Epp>
Okay. Thanks guys. I'll see what I can do with this.
19:34
<vagrantc>
alkisg: i don't think it includes recommends for most features
19:34
<alkisg>
vagrantc: http://packages.ubuntu.com/quantal/ltsp-server
19:34
Green bullets there
19:35
<vagrantc>
alkisg: pulseaudio?
19:36
alkisg: it doesn't recommend ldm-server ...
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19:36
<vagrantc>
or ltspfs
19:39
does upstart generally make use of /etc/default/SERVICENAME ?
19:41
installing just ltsp-server and manually installing all the dependencies requires knowing which dependencies you want...
19:41
<James_Epp>
vagrantc: I know that /etc/default/isc-dhcp-server is generated on its install.
19:42
I think my gameplan as of now is going to be to install standalone, then play with upstart to stop dhcp from starting.
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19:43
<vagrantc>
James_Epp: alternately, if you already have a dhcp server on the network, install dnsmasq and set it up to do proxydhcp
19:43
!proxydhcp
19:43
<ltsp>
proxydhcp: A proxy DHCP server is defined by the PXE specification as a server which sends auxiliary boot information to clients, like the boot filename, tftp server or rootpath, but leaves the task of IP leasing to the normal DHCP server. More info: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/ProxyDHCP
19:44
<alkisg>
dhcp shouldn't even start by default unless you edit the range in the file to match your actual range
19:44
<vagrantc>
but the default matches many default home router network ranges
19:44
<alkisg>
pulseaudio should be a dependency of *ubuntu-desktop...
19:44
<vagrantc>
at least on ubuntu
19:44
<James_Epp>
alkisg: You have a point, but LTSP has a default dhcpd.conf from what I know.
19:44
<alkisg>
192.168.0.x
19:44
If you have that, ok, if you don't, it won't start
19:45
<vagrantc>
James_Epp: you'll also need to configure your DHCP server to have appropriate network boot settings... unless you use proxydhcp
19:45
<James_Epp>
vagrantc: I understand PXE relationships quite well.
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19:46
<alkisg>
vagrantc: ls /boot on a gentoo live cd: http://paste.debian.net/73871
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19:47
<vagrantc>
alkisg: that looks fun.
19:48
<alkisg>
vagrantc: it's ok, it's still sed-able
19:48
3.3.0-gentoo-r1 == version, -x86=flavor
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20:03
<vagrantc>
alkisg: so, are you working on getting the kernel_links moved into ltsp-update-kernels?
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20:11
<alkisg>
vagrantc: ah sorry I thought you were going to do the integration... should I?
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20:20
<vagrantc>
alkisg: oh, i can work on it
20:26
<alkisg>
Wow, `cp -r --no-preserve=mode` didn't work until about a year ago..!
20:26
There's no way to cp a dir _without_ preserving the files modes?!!
20:26
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/coreutils/+bug/379233
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20:50
<vagrantc>
could switch to rsync ...
20:51
if the workarounds start becoming more complicated than using a more fitting tool...
21:00
<alkisg>
rsync should work way better, yeah
21:00
So if e.g. someone has 20 old kernels, it would only copy the most recent one etc
21:01
And with --delete, it'll work for the "reverting to older chroot" case too
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21:03
<vagrantc>
delete will wipe out pxelinux.cfg
21:04
we should probably stick with "cp -a" and workarounds for ltsp 5.5.x
21:05
alkisg: it may be a bit before i get to the kernel_links stuff
21:07
<alkisg>
No worries, schools open on Wednesday, it'd just be nice to upload something to the PPA before then
21:08
<vagrantc>
ok
21:08* alkisg prepares a patch to lower udhcpc to recommends:...
21:10
<vagrantc>
alkisg: so, the kernel_names and and initrd_name need to be in the chroot, yes?
21:10
the configuration for that
21:11
<alkisg>
vagrantc: yes, and ltsp-update-kernels needs to source update-kernels.conf
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21:11
<vagrantc>
ok.
21:11
<alkisg>
unset KERNEL_NAMES INITRD_NAME; . $CHROOT/etgc/update-kernels.conf; if [ -n "$KERNEL_NAMES" ]...
21:19
vagrantc: I only see "pulseaudio" as suggested by ltsp-server, not in Recommends or Depends...
21:19
<vagrantc>
right
21:20
and that's, as far as i'm concerned, how it should be.
21:20
<alkisg>
Ah, ok, I thought above ^ you said that it should be recommented
21:20
<vagrantc>
alkisg: i said it won't get pulled in because it's not recommended
21:20
or at least meant to say that
21:21
<alkisg>
I thought you were comparing "ltsp-server-standalone, which would pull pulseaudio" to "ltsp-server, which wouldn't pull pulseaudio"
21:21
But both of them won't pull it...
21:22
Anyways, ok, just wanted to see if something was amiss
21:22
<vagrantc>
ah
21:23* vagrantc wonders if it's in ldm-server, where it belongs anyways
21:23
<bennabiy>
alkisg: sorry, missed your question. My recipe of ltsp based on your greek schools packaging.
21:23
for my ppa
21:23
<alkisg>
bennabiy: link?
21:25
<bennabiy>
rerequesting build now. one minute
21:26
https://code.launchpad.net/~bennabiy/+recipe/ltsp-daily
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21:29
<alkisg>
bennabiy: I don't see any failed builds there...
21:29
<bennabiy>
I deleted the one, that is why I am re-requesting
21:29
<alkisg>
dpkg-source: error: can't build with source format '3.0 (native)': native package version may not have a revision
21:29
<bennabiy>
if you have an email I can mail you the message I was sent about it
21:30
<alkisg>
bennabiy: https://code.launchpad.net/~alkisg/+recipe/ltsp-daily
21:30
See the recipe text there
21:30
Also, you can just copy the packages from my ppa to yours, instead of using recipes...
21:31
<bennabiy>
How do I do that? Download and then re-upload them? or is there a way to do that all in launchpad?
21:32
Sometimes I make custom tests based on my branch, testing things for mint
21:32
<alkisg>
https://launchpad.net/~ts.sch.gr/+archive/proposed/+copy-packages
21:32
That's the greek schools "proposed" ppa, and this is the normal one: https://launchpad.net/~ts.sch.gr/+archive/ppa/+copy-packages
21:33
For example, now the proposed ppa does have ltsp 5.5, but we've found out it has an issue, so it won't be copied to the real ppa
21:33
<bennabiy>
right now it is synced with upstream, but I plan on testing some things soon.
21:33
Ok
21:34
What issues does 5.5 have right now?
21:34
<alkisg>
For ltsp-pnp, some symlinks created in /boot mess up grub configuration
21:34
<bennabiy>
what about non ltsp-pnp
21:35
thin-client environment
21:35
<alkisg>
The symlinks there don't matter
21:35
So it's fine there
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21:36
<bennabiy>
Ok.
21:37
Got scared for a minute :)
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21:51
<bennabiy>
Trying now... back later.
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22:18
<alkisg>
ltsp-client-core: lower udhcpc to X-Ubuntu-Recommends: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ts.sch.gr/sch-scripts/ltsp-debian-packaging/revision/1192
22:18
...I'm not sure if it's worth the trouble of committing it though... it's a minor thing
22:26
Here's a better command that double sorts the results, so that -generic is listed before -generic-pae, or -486 before -686, or x86 before x86-64...
22:26
ls /boot | sed -n "$KERNEL_NAMES" | sort -V -k 4,4 | sort -r -k 3,3
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22:27
<alkisg>
...so that in pxelinux we list the "lesser" kernels first, without the complexity of LIST_KERNELS_*.
22:27
ifcpu* is still left up to the user...
22:32
vagrantc: ltsp-localappsd is running by default on fat clients... does that make sense? E.g. for ..remoteapps to be able to launch localapps?!
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22:48
<vagrantc>
alkisg: when you get into mimetypes and whatnot? yeah...
22:49
i.e. program X opens filetye y that's handled by program Z
22:49
<alkisg>
vagrantc: so that's on purpose, not a mistake? ok...
22:49
<vagrantc>
i can see it being needed ... it's kind of messy, yes.
22:50
<alkisg>
Next task, for tomorrow... we need lts.conf directives to run things at INITRD/INIT/RC/DM/PRELOGIN/LOGIN/SESSION/LOGOUT
22:50
...and I want to find the proper names for all those
22:50
e.g. RUN_DM_0, RUN_LOGIN_1, or e.g. LOGIN_COMMAND_2 ?
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22:53
<alkisg>
INITRD=commands to run at initramfs, INIT=init-ltsp.d, RC=ltsp-core, DM (or should it be X instead?) = ldm, lightdm... for e.g. XRANDR_MODE_0,
22:53
PRELOGIN=just before login, to check e.g. the servers CPU for load balancing, LOGIN=right after login, to e.g. clear guest files, SESSION=from /etc/xdg/autostart, and LOGOUT=to cleanup stuff
22:56
<||cw>
hm. why do all the howto's say to "/etc/init.d/isc-dhcp-server restart" but doing so errors and doens't seem to restart the dhcpd process that's running? did I mess something up, or did something change recently?
22:56
<alkisg>
||cw: distro/version?
22:56
<||cw>
saucy
22:56
<alkisg>
sudo service isc... restart
22:57
If it errors, then something's wrong
22:57
Press <tab> in isc for autocompletion
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23:05
<alkisg>
vagrantc: btw we have some commands with a single digit, e.g. PRINTER_0_DEVICE, XRANDR_MODE_0, and some with double digit, e.g. RCFILE_01...
23:05
Should I make them all single-digit in ltsp-docs, and accept both single and double digit in lts.conf?
23:05
$ env | sed '/^FSTAB_[0-9]*=/!d' | sort -V
23:05
FSTAB_00=00
23:05
FSTAB_0=0
23:05
FSTAB_01=01
23:05
FSTAB_1=1
23:05
FSTAB_9=9
23:05
FSTAB_20=20
23:07
*accept both single and double digit in lts.conf ==> of course I mean from the client-side code that processes them...
23:07
<vagrantc>
alkisg: long-term yes, short-term ... ?
23:08
<alkisg>
Sure, why not short term?
23:08
I don't see any breaking of compatibility
23:08
<vagrantc>
sure
23:08
<alkisg>
Well, at least from the side of the code
23:08
No need to update the docs for ltsp5.5...
23:08
<vagrantc>
there are probably some updates for ltsp 5.5 that are needed
23:09
<alkisg>
OK, but we'll rewrite much of ltsp-docs for ltsp6, and I'd hate to do the same work twice
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23:43
<alkisg>
Fun :) http://paste.debian.net/73903/
23:49
<vagrantc>
alkisg: i do recall removing a lot of sed/awk/grep calls and replacing with striaght shell having a notable speed improvement at one point
23:50
<alkisg>
vagrantc: I don't like 01 02 03 ...
23:50
I prefer VAR_<any number>
23:50* vagrantc too
23:50
<alkisg>
So, sed is necessary to do that
23:50
Sort is necessary to sort the numbers
23:50
So... :-/
23:51
vagrantc: my current diff: >> /etc/rc.local
23:51
Meh
23:51
http://pastie.org/8594874
23:51
Errr ignore udhcpcc
23:51
<vagrantc>
would that also negatively impact say ... X_MOD_0=foo=bar ?
23:52
ah, it's any number of numbers, till =
23:52
<alkisg>
Yup
23:53
<vagrantc>
but with your code it supports an arbitrary number of arguments
23:53
<alkisg>
Yup, and we don't care how many digits they have, 00 or plain 0
23:54
What we could do for a bit of speedup, is to cache the output of "env | sort -V"
23:54
I.e. I could write an "sorted_env" function that caches the result in a variable
23:54
<vagrantc>
alkisg: init-ltsp.d/20-modules looks like a huge improvement
23:55
<alkisg>
Yeah it's more readable that way
23:55
I just hope there are no regressions anywhere...
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23:58
<alkisg>
All those env | sort would delay client booting for about 1/100 sec... not sure if it's worth it to put them in a function