IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 2 November 2018   (all times are UTC)

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10:10
<nr0>
hey, someone can me help please with i386 lubuntu 18.04?
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10:22
<nr0>
on client machine it hangs in operation Set the console keyboard layout ....... then block nbd0: connection time out
10:22
16.04 works vell...
10:24
<alkisg>
Hi nr0
10:24
<nr0>
hey alkisg
10:24
<alkisg>
Can you upload a screenshot of the client screen when it does that?
10:25
<nr0>
yep. 30 sec
10:26
https://ibb.co/nqE4A0
10:26
<alkisg>
nr0: what's the output of this command on the server? sudo ltsp-info | nc termbin.com 9999
10:27
<nr0>
http://termbin.com/89ti
10:28
<alkisg>
nr0: I think the problem is that you're not using the greek schools ppa inside the chroot
10:28
So you have old ltsp-client versions
10:28
!install
10:28
<ltsp>
install: http://wiki.ltsp.org/wiki/Installation/Ubuntu for Ubuntu, or http://wiki.ltsp.org/wiki/Installation for other distributions
10:29
<alkisg>
The link there mentions about adding the ppa...
10:30
<nr0>
thank you. i've did it with instruction. how to force use of greek school ppa? it's already added before ltsp server installation
10:31
i see that instruction and make install dealing with it
10:32
<alkisg>
The instructions had this line:
10:32
ltsp-build-client --purge-chroot --mount-package-cache --extra-mirror 'http://ppa.launchpad.net/ts.sch.gr/ppa/ubuntu bionic main' \ --apt-keys '/etc/apt/trusted.gpg.d/ts_sch_gr_ubuntu_ppa.gpg' --late-packages epoptes-client
10:32
This puts the ppa in the chroot
10:32
Now to add it afterwards, you could try:
10:32
sudo ltsp-chroot add-apt-repository ppa:ts.sch.gr
10:33
then sudo ltsp-chroot apt update, apt full-upgrade, ltsp-update-image etc
10:34
<nr0>
aah i see. i've not added ppa in chroot. my fault. it was not transparent for me. thank you
10:36
<alkisg>
np
10:42
<nr0>
yep it's working
10:43
could you add to wiki that adding ppa nessessary exactly in chroot env?
10:44
<alkisg>
nr0: it's already in the wiki, the instructions have the line i pasted
10:44
nr0: you didn't follow the instructions with the --extra-mirror and all
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12:34
<enaut[m]>
Hey guys, I noticed there is an incredible amount of spam in the wiki... I think this problem should be dealt with... Maybe make account creation moderated?
12:37
Or well it could be said that with 60.000 active users and 100.000 pages ltsps documentation is quite extensive.
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13:04
<mwalters>
I wonder what one of those automated project climate report things would say now
13:04
;)
13:05
<alkisg>
Hyperbyte: ^ ?
13:06
Maybe we could only manually create new accounts... it's not like there are many who want to write documentation
13:06
But that server is Ubuntu 8.04... it should have been updated years ago...
13:07
<mwalters>
lol
13:12
<highvoltage>
OO
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13:22
<stilyan>
hi
13:22
having problem with amd64 ltsp client boot
13:23
ltsp server was ubuntu 14 and release upgrade to 18
13:23
<enaut[m]>
alkisg: 8.4 - Wow that's impressive!
13:23
<stilyan>
it had existing i386 setup that still works
13:23
i want to switch to amd64, built an image and everything
13:24
but when I boot at some point I'm slapped with block nbd0: connection timed out
13:24
from initramfs I'm able to get response from nbd-client {ltsp server ip} -N /opt/ltsp/{architecture} /dev/nbd0
13:25
<enaut[m]>
Are you sure your clients support 64 bit?
13:25
<stilyan>
yes
13:25
i think it's /etc/ltsp/nbd-server.allow
13:25
i dont have this file
13:25
but i386 boots fine without it
13:26
chroot and image was made in ubuntu14 .. so the issue I experience now may be due to the release upgrade
13:26
i tried creating /etc/ltsp/nbd-server.allow and adding the ip for client i use for tests
13:27
<enaut[m]>
I read that different versions of Ubuntu in client and server do not mix well are both of them up to date?
13:27
<stilyan>
then getting message repeated 2 times: [ client address does not match 2/10: address family mismatch (IPv4 vs IPv6?)]
13:28
client 3.16.2 , 1:3.16.2-1ubuntu0.1
13:28
pardon, this is server
13:28
and client of amd64 chroot is 1:3.16.2-1ubuntu0.1
13:28
so the same
13:28
<enaut[m]>
No I mean both are Ubuntu 18.4
13:28
<stilyan>
both server and client are ubuntu18 so packages should be same v
13:29
yes, both are
13:29
can I ignore /etc/ltsp/nbd-server.allow
13:29
i tried commenting it out in config
13:29
and then did nbd-server reload to refresh the conf
13:29
but I got the same error that client wasn't auth
13:30
so.. now.. I boot client like this
13:30
append ro initrd=initrd.img-4.15.0-38-generic init=/sbin/init-ltsp root=/dev/nbd0 break=init debug
13:30
and i can see with mount
13:31
what happens after that ? swap is attached ?
13:32
<enaut[m]>
Mhm you are beyond my expertise now :(
13:32
<stilyan>
i've been pulling my hair over this..
13:33
haven't tried building client with earlier version, e.g. 16 to try out
13:33
any idea how to completely ignore /etc/ltsp/nbd-server.allow
13:33
<enaut[m]>
Maybe you could try mounting the nbd device manually in a live distro?
13:33
<stilyan>
i dont need any form of auth
13:33
<mwalters>
famous last words
13:33
:D
13:34
<stilyan>
[15:24] <stilyan> from initramfs I'm able to get response from nbd-client {ltsp server ip} -N /opt/ltsp/{architecture} /dev/nbd0
13:34
i've tried getting it and it worked
13:34
and now having the break=init I see the /dev/nbd0 mounted
13:35
<enaut[m]>
And you can ls the files?
13:36
<stilyan>
dev/nbd0 on /root/rofs type squashfs (ro,realtime)
13:36
i did ls and yes, there are the directories
13:37
i have a feeling.. a great feeling /etc/ltsp/nbd-server.allow us causing my mental breakdown
13:38
do you nice people know a way to completely disable it ?
13:38
<enaut[m]>
You could also try rebuilding the image or rebuilding the whole client. But as said just guessing.
13:38
<stilyan>
I commented it out, reloaded config, seems its still being used
13:38
image was rebuilt this morning
13:38
what do you mean rebuild the whole client ? new chroot ?
13:38
i already got software compiled there.. will be pain but.. this is last resort, yes
13:40
<enaut[m]>
Oh maybe use the server IP in nbd-server.allow instead of client.
13:41
<stilyan>
why ?
13:41
ltsp server is not my dhcp
13:41
I can see IPs being assigned by the dhcp server, I am sure I tried putting the correct in authfile and still.. was denied
13:42
if not disable.. then how do I make sure absolutely everyone is allowed ? no limitations whatsoever
13:48
now I have commented authfile in nbd-server swap.conf and still getting logs regarding it
13:48
nbd_server[27963]: Can't open authorization file /etc/ltsp/nbd-server.allow (No such file or directory).
13:48
meaning.. configuration is not refreshed :0
13:49
does nbd-server reload even work on Ubuntu, maybe restart is needed ?
13:49
<enaut[m]>
I think restarting nbd server is
13:50
systemctl restart nbd-server
13:50
<stilyan>
:D i got terminals connected
13:50
so i guess I'll have to continue later when they are not in use
13:50
<enaut[m]>
OK...
13:51
<stilyan>
another things i see in syslog is in.tftpd[27979]: tftp: client does not accept options but everything seems to work
13:51
<enaut[m]>
I guess you did reboot the server some time?
13:52
<stilyan>
after the release upgrade ? - yes
13:52
<enaut[m]>
Because if not recently I'd try that in quiet times.
13:52
<alkisg>
stilyan: do you have the greek schools ppa in your sources.list?
13:53
Both on the server and the chroot?
13:53
<stilyan>
um .. no ? what is it for ?
13:54
<alkisg>
It provides working ltsp versions
13:54
Becuase the ones in ubuntu don't work
13:54
<stilyan>
lol, nice
13:54
<alkisg>
(I'm its maintainer, and an ltsp developer)
13:54
!install
13:54
<ltsp>
install: http://wiki.ltsp.org/wiki/Installation/Ubuntu for Ubuntu, or http://wiki.ltsp.org/wiki/Installation for other distributions
13:54
<alkisg>
Read the guide there
13:55
<stilyan>
but.. i don't understand how it can continue working with the i386 but doesn't with amd64
13:55
with new image in general.. this is not specific to arch i believe
13:55
<alkisg>
I've fixed about 100 bugs since the version you're using
13:55
<enaut[m]>
But you can also simply add the ppa in server and client and update
13:56
<alkisg>
I'm sure it's one of them, but I don't think it makes sense to find out which one exactly
13:56
Since even if you solve that one, you'll hit another, and another
13:56
So just add the ppa :)
13:56
add-apt-repository ppa:ts.sch.gr in both server and chroot, then apt update etc
13:57
<stilyan>
shizzles.. okay
13:57
<alkisg>
I've managed to put that newer version to ubuntu 18.10, but it needs more bureaucracy to put it to 18.04
13:57
<stilyan>
well.. i'll break this further during the weekend and let yall know how it went
13:58
<alkisg>
Oh no that was for epoptes; for ltsp,even 18.10 has a very old version
13:58
...maybe 19.04 will get a working one :)
13:58
<stilyan>
this sounds so weird..
13:59
<alkisg>
New updates in systemd and all break things
13:59
LTSP is very delicate there, and needs to fix everything
13:59
And this happens after the ubuntu release
13:59
so, the normal procedure is "cherrypick all bug fixes, don't include features, then do an SRU"
14:00
That would take more than a day; we don't have that amount of manpower; so a ppa with stock ltsp releases is much easier and better for all the users
14:00
<stilyan>
ok, hopefully i can get away with adding the ppa and not building a whole new system
14:00
<alkisg>
E.g. I think I've done 10 ltsp releases in the ppa after ubuntu 18.04; it would take weeks to include those in 18.04
14:01
Sure, it's just an apt upgrade, it shouldn't need anything more
14:01
<stilyan>
i would like to keep the i386 working since we haven't tried the amd64 yet, there may be some major issues so we need a backup plan
14:01
<enaut[m]>
alkisg: maybe it would be better to remove it ltsp altogether from the official repos?
14:01
<stilyan>
for the sake of curiosity - is situation with Debian the same ?
14:01
<alkisg>
enaut[m]: well, some things do work :) E.g. now many things broke because of systemd, networkd, resolved etc
14:02
vagrantc takes the version that I prepare for the ppa in ubuntu, then tests it for debian and releases it
14:02
So it's usually: ppa > debian > ubuntu
14:03
enaut[m]: so, if we don't get many changes in newer releases, things work for a few years; if many things change (e.g. now we'll have wayland), then ppa is a must
14:05
enaut[m]: ubuntu allows e.g. frequent firefox new uploads. It would be nice to convince them to allow frequent ltsp upload as well; but I don't have the time to try that, it would probably take weeks to convince them, as it's a major policy change
14:05
It's rare to have a developer test his work on thousands of schools *before* uploading to ubuntu. That ensures quality, but it's not something that you can allow in general...
14:06
<enaut[m]>
OK... and to get some accelerated version upgrading some additional work needs to be dome that no one has time to do I guess.
14:07
I mean it just seems counterintuitive to have packages known to not work in the repos.
14:08
<alkisg>
Very. I tried to do SRUs in the past of other packages, not ltsp related, with arguments like "but version 1.5 works, and the 1.0 that you have in the repos doesn't even launch"; ...but no, the policy says "only bug fixes, not new releases"
14:08
New releases belong in ubuntu backports; although a lot of work is required to upload there too
14:09
<enaut[m]>
Thank god I'm usually using Fedora :)
14:10
<alkisg>
Hehe, that one doesn't even have an ltsp version in the repositories
14:10
The situation there is even worse
14:11
<enaut[m]>
True... And it is almost impossible to install...
14:11
But on the other hand usually the things in the repos work or get fixed.
14:11
<alkisg>
To be honest, I wouldn't like new uploads for *every* package; just for a few sensitive ones like ltsp, which may break on every little systemd or network-manager update
14:11
So... I guess that PPA is just fine for our needs
14:12
We might need to inform the users a bit better though
14:12
<enaut[m]>
Yes
14:15
I mean you could add an echo to ltsp-build-client like "this version is stable. If something is broken please try the ppa at ..."
14:15
<mwalters>
is it possible to get rid of all the out of date wiki articles on the ubuntu wiki?
14:15
that'd probably help a lot, those were some of the first I stumbled across when I started this position
14:15
<alkisg>
You'd be very very welcome to do that :)
14:15
<mwalters>
:D
14:16
<alkisg>
The ubuntu wiki? Ah, that needs to be completely deleted...
14:16
I think I deleted or put a header on a couple of the most famous ones
14:16
<mwalters>
https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP
14:16
yeah, I see the disclaimer
14:16
<alkisg>
Right, I put the notice on top
14:17
<mwalters>
does <blink> still work?
14:17
;)
14:17
<alkisg>
:D
14:17
rm -rf https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP could work...
14:17
<mwalters>
probably the best course of action
14:17
<alkisg>
Please do that! :)
14:17
<mwalters>
yeah, "ubuntu ltsp" gets us that as the first result on gooooooooogle.
14:18
ltsp.org is like 4 down
14:20
<enaut[m]>
Yep when I first got the computer lab I was told the software is ltsp and I tried installing according to Ubuntu wiki - I usually do not use ppa...
14:21
And only later I discovered that there is ltsp.org and its wiki.
14:22
<alkisg>
I think I put that notice there years ago :D
14:22
It does needs "blink" :D
14:23
<mwalters>
page is immutible
14:23
I have no idea how to wiki, lol
14:44
<enaut[m]>
alkisg: who owns the wiki.ltsp.org server? Maybe it would make sense to move the wiki to github or similar? Then no one needs to maintain the servers.
14:44
<stilyan>
alkisg: do you have release notes with bug fix descriptions ?
14:45
<alkisg>
enaut[m]: I think people at disklessworkstation.com own it. I'm pondering using a different name for ltsp6, so that all legacy (old wikis and servers) is completely dropped...
14:45
<enaut[m]>
stilyan I think the closest is got history...
14:45
<alkisg>
stilyan: the short version is `apt changelog` and the long version is `git log`
14:45
https://git.launchpad.net/ltsp
14:45
And there's also ldm and ltspfs
14:47
<stilyan>
thanks
14:47
most responsive dev ever.. :D
14:49
<enaut[m]>
alkisg this could help - but you/we should be careful not to make a never coming perfect solution. And with renaming there will be a lot of traffic going the old path.
14:51
<alkisg>
enaut[m]: oh sure, I do know where and how to start it, I'm not trying to make something perfect, just get rid of old legacy (like, the 90% of the old code :D)
14:51
I'm just waiting for some funding to start... :)
14:57
<stilyan>
till Monday guys, have a great weekend !
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14:59
<alkisg>
You too
15:40
<quinox>
I'm against changing names, nothing good comes from it. Consistently using LTSP6/LTSP7/LTSP8 everywhere (man pages, wiki etc) might also fix it?
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15:52
<alkisg>
quinox: if we don't have access to ltsp.org, we can't fix anything there
15:52
So if we buy thenewname.org, we'll have access
15:55
<quinox>
ltsp6.org
15:55
:D
15:55
<alkisg>
Haha, and then ltsp7.org? Also I'm not sure about trademark issues there...
15:56
I think vagrantc has asked the trademark holders to give it to the community, but he hasn't had any response over the years
15:56
<quinox>
that's too bad
15:56
their latest tweet is from 2013
15:56
<mwalters>
There's no better time than now ;)
15:57
<alkisg>
Also I'm not sure "linux terminal server project" is still a good name
15:57
<quinox>
but they are still paying for their website, so somebody must still be alive
15:57
<alkisg>
LTSP focuses more on "install once, run everywhere" now
15:57
<mwalters>
yeah, doesn't sound like there's a ton of "thin" clients left
15:57
<quinox>
you can keep the LTSP letters and drop the acronym part
15:57* alkisg was thinking about "maintain a single installation", "masi"... but doesn't like the sound of it, too italian
15:58
<mwalters>
lol
15:58
<quinox>
there's a phonenumber on their website, we can try calling them
15:58
<alkisg>
Oh we can mail them and everything; sometimes scotty and jim even still come here,like twice a year
15:59
E.g. I've asked jim if I can host ltsp.org, he said he'd look in upgrading the 8.04, but that's 2 years ago now...
15:59
<mwalters>
they just clam up when someone brings up the domain?
16:00
<quinox>
cool, must have missed that (or not realized who was chatting)
16:00
<alkisg>
They don't have enough time for ltsp, I guess. I don't blame them for that; that's why new names are needed, when too much legacy is gathered
16:00
E.g. even getting the team name for launchpad or github can be an issue
16:01
When no devs are left from the initial team, it's usually a good time for a new name :)
16:01
<quinox>
ltsp-ng
16:01
<alkisg>
Yeah lns, a member here 10 years ago, had started a project named ltsp-ng
16:02
<quinox>
(I'm not a fan of the -ng extension, but it does communicate what's going on)
16:02
<alkisg>
It's not ltsp anymore
16:02
It's a complete redesign, with no old code left
16:02
So I don't think ltsp-ng is appropriate...
16:02
Either ltsp just to avoid confusing users, or something completely unrelated
16:03* alkisg waves for now, later!
16:03
<quinox>
ltsp-ng-ng
16:03
bye
16:03
<alkisg>
:D
16:04
<quinox>
I think with a new name you'll throw a lot of brand recognition away, especially for something that's already not widely known
16:04
or maybe I'm just an old git that can't deal with change
16:07
<mwalters>
I don't mean it as a slight, but is there really any brand recognition right now?
16:10
<enaut[m]>
I think there is... as many users are teachers... usually they install the classroom and only update when something is broken. So if you change the name those will not find the ltsp-ng-ng-bestest-ng program...
16:13
<mwalters>
Dunno where everyone is... I worked in state compliance in education here before (SIS/PowerSchool/Pearson) and didn't hear of ltsp until this job... obviously my own experience isn't applicable universally, but I had never heard of it before, even being involved in open source/linux for over 10 years
16:13
or maybe I had heard of it, but it wasn't applicable at the time and so I dismissed it
16:14
"here' being the USA
16:15
<enaut[m]>
mwalters: thats exactly my point... people will not hear of the new solution
16:15
while they might have heard of the old one
16:17
<mwalters>
I guess I'm just picturing exactly what happens when someone follows the old instructions
16:17
applied to a new project name
16:17
"Hey I tried to _____ from the instructions at _____ and it's broken"
16:17
"Oh, that's because _____ is old, you need to use _____ now"
16:18
Same problem, new nouns ;)
16:18
<quinox>
surely Google ranks newer pages about LTSP higher than older pages
16:19
<mwalters>
"Ubuntu ltsp" gets you the ubuntu wiki ;)
16:20
straight "ltsp" will get you ltsp.org at least
16:20
<quinox>
I suppose writing "[This is the homepage of] MANI (formely known as LTSP)!" consistently might help
16:21
but I have no data to back up one way or another
16:21
I'll be still using it, whatever it's called
16:22
(someone that is trying to get people to forget them: Blackwater -> Xe Services -> Academi -> Constellis Holdings)
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17:43
<alkisg>
Eh, epoptes got known pretty fast, I don't think a new name is an issue. All the existing users would quickly switch, imho...
17:43
But the main problem is to actually write that new version :)
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21:19
<josefig>
One question, someone has information about how to create an image for raspberry thin terminal? I'm using the kiwi-ltsp package from opensuse and running smoothly but some one form the company asked us to review if is possible to do it with raspberry as the arch is ARM
21:48
<alkisg>
!raspberrypi
21:49
<ltsp>
raspberrypi: (#1) Ubuntu/LTSP on Pi 2: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/RaspberryPi, or (#2) Debian/LTSP (with raspbian chroot) on Pi: http://cascadia.debian.net/trenza/Documentation/raspberrypi-ltsp-howto/, or (#3) unofficial Ubuntu/LTSP (with raspbian chroot) on Pi: http://pinet.org.uk/
21:49
<alkisg>
josefig: ^
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