IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 8 March 2013   (all times are UTC)

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02:00
<ltspuser_23>
i need help for insrallinf LTSP SERVER IN BOSS LINUX
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04:03
<alkisg>
ltspuser_23: is that similar to debian squeeze? what problem are you having?
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06:03
<alkisg>
Good morning
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06:13
<muppis>
Cold morning.
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06:59
<pap>
Καλημέρα, πώς πήγε χθες;
07:00
<alkisg>
!greek
07:00
<ltsp>
greek: Στο παρόν κανάλι μιλάνε μόνο Αγγλικά, για υποστήριξη στα Ελληνικά από την υπηρεσία Τεχνικής Στήριξης ΣΕΠΕΗΥ διαβάστε το http://ts.sch.gr/wiki/IRC και στη συνέχεια πληκτρολογήστε /j #ts.sch.gr
07:00
<pap>
Ο fat του εργαστηρίου, ενώ έμπαινε κανονικά, τώρα σταματά και η τελευταία γραμμή γράφει "checking battery status"
07:00
<alkisg>
pap: διάβασε λίγο την παραπάνω γραμμή
07:01
Εδώ είναι το αγγλικό κανάλι
07:01
<pap>
ok, i will log on from ΣΕΠΠΕΥ,
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09:40
<meamy>
mm is it in general possible to start two ldm sessions on one client? At the moment i have one xfreerdp session on SCREEN_02 and one ldm session on SCREEN_07, when i add SCREEN_03=ldm to the lts.conf just the ldm session on SCREEN_07 starts . SCREEN_02 and 03 are empty did not found any usefull error messages jet. anyone have experience with two ldm session on one client? i would love to be able to switch between Users without logout/login every
09:40
time
09:43
<muppis>
Firstly comes to my mind that LDM was not desinged to be running twice on same machine so it might use some hardcoded filenames and session starting to screen 7 overwrites session started to screen 3.
09:43
<meamy>
a good morning every one bye the way :D
09:43
<muppis>
It's just my 2 cents.
09:43
It's noon already. ;)
09:49
<meamy>
muppis: that would not explain why the xfreerdp session also is not starting. I have more the felling that I'm running in some kind of fallback default setting but unfortunately there is no central place for the default conf for the different settings they all hide some where in the bash scripts. My body Clock says it is morning and thats override the System time by default in my Mind.conf
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09:51
<muppis>
There can be a change that parsing of lts.conf fails due double definition of ldm sessions.
09:51
Lunch time!
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10:57
<meamy>
muppis: ok its definitely possible to run 2 ldm sessions (i did it by making chmod 777 /var/run/ldm-xauth-blabla/Xauthority and mounting the home dir Manuel and then calling then xinit /usr/share/ltsp/xinitrc) I guess this Xauthority think could be passed by by creating a new one. So there is no design error in the LDM as you mentioned first time. I will stop digging in this direction because I dont want invest to much time into this but would
10:57
be still interested if somebody has a 2 LDM session setup running and how he did it because my dirty hacks are obviously not a good solution
11:01
<muppis>
Ok.
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12:46
<zamba>
when i try starting firefox the screen just blanks and then the X session restarts
12:46
what can i do to debug this?
12:46
is this a known problem?
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14:22
<Hyperbyte>
zamba, never heard of that happening before. What distribution/version, thin or fat clients, special LTSP version??
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14:54
<jammcq>
good morning friends
14:54
<markit>
hi jammcq :)))
14:57
<jammcq>
seems quiet around here
14:59* gvy busy testing a new altsp beta image
15:05
<Hyperbyte>
jammcq, I know. :(
15:05
I considered having my birthday party in here, but decided against it.
15:05
<jammcq>
is today the day?
15:06
<Hyperbyte>
:-)
15:06
Yeah. :)
15:06
I turned 27 today.
15:07
<jammcq>
wow, congrats
15:07
you are so young
15:07
I have a daughter that will turn 27 in october
15:07
<Hyperbyte>
Oh!
15:07
Single?
15:07
Kidding. :-)
15:09
<jammcq>
heh, no, she got married last year
15:09
<Hyperbyte>
Heheh
15:13
<sbalneav>
Morning all
15:13
jammcq!!!
15:13
How's Naaaaawwwwleans?
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15:14
<jammcq>
sbalneav: Scotty !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
15:14
NOLA was great !
15:14
wasn't so good for my waistline tho
15:14
but I'll get over that
15:14
<sbalneav>
Eat a po-boy or two? See some jazz? Get some beads?
15:15
<jammcq>
had a shrimp poboy
15:15
pretty tasty
15:15
heard lots of jaz
15:15
jazz
15:15
no beads tho. that's a mardi-gras thing and that was a couple weeks ago
15:16
<sbalneav>
I am already dreaming of Scoma's
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15:17
<jammcq>
heh
15:21
<markit>
Hyperbyte: happy birdthday or whatever is spelled
15:25
<Hyperbyte>
markit, thanks! :-)
15:30
<gvy>
Hyperbyte, hb2u :)
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15:39
<Hyperbyte>
:-D
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17:13
<alkisg>
sbalneav, knipwim, jammcq, Enslaver, Hyperbyte, stgraber, highvoltage: Here's the proposed new syntax for the configuration files, if you agree we could have it ready before the hackathon:
17:13
http://wiki.ltsp.org/wiki/Dev:Ltspd
17:14
I haven't yet written the pros, will do so in a while
17:18
<jammcq>
I would sure like to see stuff indented under the section headers
17:18
<alkisg>
jammcq: that's against the configparser syntax
17:18
I think it's defined in some RFC
17:19
It's to allow continuation of multiple lines
17:19
E.g. VAR=Line 1
17:19
line 2
17:19
line 3
17:20
Otherwise we'd need quoting, and so then it would need escaping for inserting actual quotes,
17:20
and it would get messy when one wants to enter e.g. a sed line in an RCFILE_0 option
17:22
"The configuration file consists of sections, led by a [section] header and followed by name: value entries, with continuations in the style of RFC 822 (see section 3.1.1, “LONG HEADER FIELDS”)"
17:22
<highvoltage>
alkisg: looks very much like the old one. it's nice that you wouldn't need a default section anymroe
17:23
<alkisg>
highvoltage: yup, the idea is to allow for some conditionals, e.g. [RAM > 500], without disturbing sysadmins too much with a complete new syntax...
17:24
The major changes are conditionals, no indentation allowed except for continued lines, no quoting, and [mac] now gets written as [mac = value]
17:24
<markit>
alkisg: ehm, I would propose default / suggested name for ltsp server not being "server" but "ltspserver" or something more unique ;P
17:24
<alkisg>
markit: that's not related to the configuration changes though :)
17:24
Let's not mix subjects
17:26
<markit>
alkisg: the friend of mine that is installing ltsp in 4 schools, has some problems with a "monster" server (2 cpu, 64 gb ram, 4 nic). Was not able to make it work with 32 bit ubuntu, was very unstable. 64 bit seems to work fine. Now has some "random" problems with clients, sometime someone has no panel or is missing some icons... did it happen to you sometime? Client hw is not very good, nor he is sure about cabling
17:26
alkisg: ups, did not realize you were discussing that topic, sorry
17:26
<alkisg>
markit: KDE?
17:26
<markit>
I queue up
17:26
alkisg: no, gnome fallback
17:26
<alkisg>
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-panel/+bug/1078679
17:27
<markit>
but is not urgent, define your config stuff first ;P
17:27
alkisg: oh, we use greep repo, so is just a matter of wait and update? great
17:28
<alkisg>
markit: no
17:28
The update will come as part of "sch-scripts"
17:28
Not from "gnome-panel"
17:28
<markit>
I see... I'll point him to that bug imediately, thanks a lot
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17:30
<markit>
funny, he deployed already 2 schools, but had this issue only now on the last one
17:30
that was the more "unstable"
17:31
(64 bit, biprocessor, cabling uncrtain in quality, etc..)
17:48
<vmlintu>
markit: what kind of problems were there with 32bit installation? Did it freeze or something like that?
17:49
<markit>
vmlintu: he told me that unity was very sluggish, mouse movements and so on
17:50
<vmlintu>
markit: ok.. never tried running unity on server hardware, so cannot say much..
17:51
well, never really run X on server hardware..
17:53
alkisg: are there parsers for other languages?
17:53
<alkisg>
vmlintu: languages?
17:53
configparser parses ini-style configuration files
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17:54
<alkisg>
shlex helps a bit in parsing shell syntax
17:54
compile() can parse a python file...
17:54
Is that what you're asking?
17:54
You could easily extend the ltspd daemon with a python module...
17:54
<vmlintu>
If I'd need to parse those config files on ruby, is there something available?
17:55
<alkisg>
Ah. I guess so, .ini files are one of the most common formats
17:56
<vmlintu>
I really don't know much on .ini file and what parsers support..
17:56
Can one use real arrays in them?
17:57
Personally I do not like the XXX_0, XXX_1 style
17:58
<alkisg>
vmlintu: all those values are supposed to be exported on the client environment so that bash scripts can act on them
17:58
Errr actually shell scripts, not bash scripts
17:58
Those don't support arrays
17:58
That's why we also don't want the server side to support arrays...
17:58
But it'll be easy now to have multiline values
17:59
So e.g. instead of FSTAB_0 to 9, one could have FSTAB=Line 1
17:59
line 2 etc etc
17:59
But that only makes sense in some cases... e.g. on XRANDR and on RCFILE as well
17:59
But not on all of them
17:59
XRANDR_COMMAND=multiline, RCFILE=multiline...
18:00
The downside is that you cannot add one line from a later configuration file without overriding the older value
18:00
<vmlintu>
yes, multiline makes things nicer
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18:05
<vmlintu>
alkisg: about puavo-tftpd - it's been now in use without problems this week.. We'll do some cpu optimisations for it, though, as some ruby functions turned out to be quite slow..
18:06
<markit>
vmlintu: he was installing ltsp and setting it up. In any case, in "my" schools we use the server as workstation for the teacher, and indeed has some risk
18:07
<alkisg>
vmlintu: hmmm I want to get the opportunity to introduce a new configuration system now with ltsp6, but I don't feel confident enough to propose puavo-tftpd because it hasn't been extensively used yet and I haven't even see it ... :-/
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18:08
<alkisg>
An "ltsp-config apply" command will be able to generate pxelinux.cfg/01-mac files from the /etc/ltsp/config.d/* files, if that helps
18:08
So we'll also be able to do [MAC = xxx] KERNEL_PARAMS=yyy
18:08
And if someone cares, we can also put DHCP options support there as well
18:09
All those, plus a GUI editor, should be good enough for both simple and advanced users... I hope
18:11
But if puavo-tftpd proves to be stable enough, I'd suggest that you submit it at least to debian/ubuntu, so that people can install that as a tftp server and get advantage of the new possibilities it offers
18:12
If you could also put proxydhcp support in it (it should be very simple, in java it's just a few lines), then people wouldn't even need a dhcp server either
18:12* markit googling for puavo-tftpd but github page tells nothing about features and also what it is (I guess a tftp server from it's name)
18:14
<alkisg>
markit: search the irclogs for it
18:14
<vmlintu>
yes, it's still really early in life cycle.. we are not really pushing it yet for outside use yet before we have it running on more servers..
18:14
<markit>
thanks but really developers should put some lines about the generic features of their projects!
18:15
vmlintu: oh, you one of the devs, read my comments then ;P
18:15
btw, why ruby? I use it for ruby on rails devs, and I've done some scripts that help me install and configure ltsp, but most people use Python
18:15
<vmlintu>
markit: yes.. I've been working on docs on and off..
18:15
<markit>
I feel less alone now ;P
18:16
<vmlintu>
our management tools are all written in ruby
18:16
Other stuff mostly on nodejs
18:17
<markit>
I see
18:18
I've to leave now, thanks a lot bye
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19:59
<ltspuser_76>
My client boot failure is due to NFS refusing connectio to an "unmatched host". I don't know what that means. Using 'range' in dhcpd.conf and thought that would avoid this. Do I need a host file entry or something with the client's MAC address?
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20:41
<ltspuser_76>
FWIW My problem is solved: I was missing a '5' in a 255 in the export file :( . What's nice is that I can run the Scientific Linux env. on a P3 866 with 128MB of RAM. Nice work devs. thanks.
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21:08* gvy runs current ALTSP on 32M RAM, a clear regression from 16M five years ago :-/
21:10
<vagrantc>
what version of LTSP?
21:11
<gvy>
same 5.1
21:12
took some time for a forward port but didn't quite make through (and there were things going to change so postponed it for a week or two, that is came back in a year)
21:12
the regression is due to generic kernel :)
21:17
<vagrantc>
it seems kind of implausible and still running current software ... X alone on my machine is taking 10-30MB of ram, depending on how you count it
21:17
what corners are cut?
21:19
<gvy>
X: ~8M i586, ~16M x86_64
21:19
RSS
21:19
<vagrantc>
mine was on i686
21:20
built for i486
21:20
<gvy>
X seems to take varied amounts of memory depending on the total available
21:21
<vagrantc>
also depending on what's actually running
21:21
<gvy>
messing with today's images, yesterday's snapshot is available here just in case: ftp://ftp.linux.kiev.ua/pub/Linux/ALT/people/mike/iso/terminal/
21:21
<vagrantc>
i.e. how many clients are displayed
21:21
<gvy>
yup
21:21
it's for a kdm
21:21
<vagrantc>
gvy: do you have any commits for upstream ltsp?
21:21
<gvy>
vagrantc, I have to catch up as usual :-)
21:22
the changes I've seen during that attempt were okay
21:22
and I'm all for upstream merge as always
21:28
11M X RSS (i586) given TDE session + firefox
21:28
@32M RAM
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22:08
<vagrantc>
hrm.
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22:13* vagrantc is having trouble reproducing http://bugs.debian.org/701916 a.k.a. https://bugs.launchpad.net/ltsp/+bug/1093144
22:13christopher is now known as Guest23833
22:13
<vagrantc>
can't hardly justify fixing it if I can't reproduce it
22:14* vagrantc attempts to summon alkisg
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22:32alkisg has joined IRC (alkisg!~alkisg@ubuntu/member/alkisg)
22:32* alkisg got summoned by vagrantc... :D
22:34* vagrantc bows thankfully
22:34
<vagrantc>
alkisg: do you have a way to reliably reproduce the "programs continue to run after logout" problem?
22:35
<alkisg>
vagrantc: it depends on the apps that are running, but no I haven't pinpoint which of them reproduce the problem,
22:35
<vagrantc>
alkisg: i'm trying to verify it with the unpatched verson, but everything works as expected :)
22:35
<alkisg>
i.e. I've seen installations where it doesn't happen, and installations where it always happens,
22:35
but, here's another part that you can always verify:
22:35
ls ~/.gvfs
22:35
<vagrantc>
alkisg: i've tried with icewm + iceweasel, lxde + iceweasel + leafpad + random otehr stuff, xfce ... they all work as expected
22:35
<alkisg>
On first login that works
22:36
On second login, it says something about pipe disconnected
22:36
While with the patch it does work
22:36
That's always reproducible, even on installations where the sshfs problem doesn't appear
22:37
<vagrantc>
lxde doesn't apparently mount ~/.gvfs at all
22:39
<alkisg>
Btw, some reading for afterwards: http://wiki.ltsp.org/wiki/Dev:Ltspd
22:39
A proposal for a new configuration system - although I haven't yet written the pros and cons
22:41
<vagrantc>
alkisg: i'm having zero luck reproducing this problem ...
22:41
<alkisg>
I've seen it with gnome and kde
22:41
I haven't tried lxde/xfce...
22:41* vagrantc was going to try gnome next
22:42
<alkisg>
$ grep gvfs /proc/mounts
22:42
gvfs-fuse-daemon /home/alkisg/.gvfs fuse.gvfs-fuse-daemon rw,nosuid,nodev,relatime,user_id=1010,group_id=1010 0 0
22:42
<vagrantc>
also, session saving seems broken again :(
22:42
<alkisg>
In .dmrc? Meh
22:42
<vagrantc>
it's not writing out a .dmrc at all
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22:48
<vagrantc>
i should probably reinstall from scratch, just to make sure i haven't manually tweaked soemthing somewhere.
22:50* vagrantc wonders if fatclients try to write out ~/.dmrc before or after sshfs is mounted
22:51
<alkisg>
They write that to the server, don't they?
22:51
Not in the sshfs mount... but via the socket
22:52
<vagrantc>
thought so ...
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23:00
<vagrantc>
alkisg: so, i don't see a .gvfs even in gnome...
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23:01
<vagrantc>
alkisg: have you seen this on Debian?
23:05
<alkisg>
vagrantc: do you have gvfs-fuse installed?
23:05
No I haven't seen it on debian - I have a debian chroot for testing but it's a thin one
23:05
<vagrantc>
nope
23:06* vagrantc tests again
23:09
<alkisg>
The gnome session is started with dbus-launch in front of it, right?
23:10
<vagrantc>
the attempt without gvfs installed was on a thin client
23:11
and now trying with a fatclient crashes without gnome-fallback kicking in
23:17
alkisg: with gvfs-fuse installed, it still doesn't create ~/.gvfs ...
23:17
<alkisg>
Meh
23:17* vagrantc wonders if ~/.gvfs got replaced by something newer and shinier
23:18
<alkisg>
And ubuntu still ships it? I wouldn't be surprised at all...
23:18
But the problem is not limited to .gvfs, it was just easier to reproduce that one
23:18* vagrantc can't reproduce the problem at all...
23:18
<alkisg>
I can get a list of applications that produce the problem next week
23:19* vagrantc can't in good confidence upload such an intrusive fix without the ability to reproduce the problem
23:19
<alkisg>
But i do know it's very common in ubuntu, many teachers reported that (and most wouldn't understand/report it even if it happened)
23:20
vagrantc: feel free to either close it or lower its significance, I was just trying to help with filing it there
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