IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 7 August 2018   (all times are UTC)

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08:53
<Helenah>
Yo yo yooooo, what's happenin'?
08:53
Hot out, init?
08:54
Anyway, time to get serious, just thought I'd noisy you guys up a lil. I noticed printers, scanners and fstabs can be set in lts.conf.
08:54
If I was to defined a printer in lts.conf, do I assign it the name I've gave the printer in cups?
08:56
I'd also like to know the best way of mounting the home directories on another drive.
09:07
<alkisg>
Helenah: thin or fat clients? where is the printer, on the server or on the client or elsewhere?
09:07
And what do you mean "home directories on another drive", is that a local disk of the client?
09:07
<Helenah>
There is a disk in the server I would rather use.
09:07
<alkisg>
If you mean that you want to move the server /home in another disk/partition, that question isn't related to ltsp
09:08
<Helenah>
Also, the printers are connected to the server as I would rather have it central to all the fat clients.
09:08
<alkisg>
You boot from a live cd, move /home, then put the correct line in #fstab; ask your distro #channel for details there
09:08
<Helenah>
hmm
09:08
<alkisg>
(or you logout from the system, login from the console as root, and do it from there)
09:09
If you put the printers to the server, fat clients automatically see them
09:09
<Helenah>
aaah
09:09
<alkisg>
You don't need to do anything at all (assuming a recent ltsp that automatically enables cups printer sharing)
09:09
<Helenah>
So no need to configure the printer directives?
09:09
<alkisg>
Right
09:09
<Helenah>
Okay, I'll take a look at that.
09:10
So Control Center, Printers?
09:10
Looks like I need cups on the server, I'll do that now, or it needs starting?
09:10
<alkisg>
What's the output of this? cupsctl | grep share
09:11
<Helenah>
Appears I got cups
09:11
_share_printers=0
09:11
<alkisg>
Anyway just run this on the server: sudo cupsctl _share_printers=1
09:11
<Helenah>
hmm aaah
09:11
Useful tool, is that a wrapper?
09:12
<alkisg>
You're supposed to do that via the gui, but you're making things hard
09:12
<Helenah>
I stuck with your traditional setup in the end.
09:12
<alkisg>
If you have a gui, then just use the "share printers" checkbox from the gui
09:12
<Helenah>
As I foound your guide is the most stable out of all the setups out there, as long as you don't use Ubuntu Server as the LTSP server.
09:13
Is that Unity or MATE? I'm using MATE myself.
09:13
on the fat clients, atleast
09:14
<alkisg>
Which desktop environment are you using on the server?
09:15
<Helenah>
Unity, as I installed Ubuntu desktop.
09:15
<alkisg>
So you're using a different desktop environment on the server vs the clients? Why?
09:19
<Helenah>
Your guide recommended to use MATE on the clients, and I can understand why, on thin clients, Unity is a heavy solution, however I didn't see the point in removing Unity from the LTSP server which is what I would've opted to do if I was to install MATE on the server also. Anyway, I noticed in thin clients, I get Unity anyway and thin clients have available to them whatever is on the server root. If I have
09:19
problems, I'll probably consider switching out Unity for MATE.
09:20
<alkisg>
"Anyway, I noticed in thin clients, I get Unity anyway" ==> exactly, the mate recommendation was for the server, for thin clients, not for fat clients
09:20
<Helenah>
However, I'm currently not using thin clients.
09:20
<alkisg>
OK anyway both environments have a gui to share printers
09:21
And if you're using 18.04 I assume you're using gnome, not unity
09:21
<Helenah>
I may have miscomprehended your guide, and I don't apologise for that mistake on my behalf, however just by playing around with LTSP, reinstalling it a couple of times, applying custom configurations, etc, I've come a long way and learned a lot. I found LTSP very confusing at first, and it still is a little, but I'm learning.
09:21
Yeah, MATE, a gnome2 base
09:21
In the chroot
09:21
<alkisg>
All I'm saying is that it's best to stick to the recommendations for the first setup, and THEN go to customizations
09:22
Printer sharing happens on the server
09:22
<fiesh>
alkisg: btw, I did a quick benchmark on xz vs gzip vs lz4 recently...
09:22
gzip: 24286371840
09:22
xz: 21738356736
09:22
xz -Xbcj x86: 21677334528
09:22
xz -Xbcj x86 -Xdict-size '100%': 21677334528
09:22
lz4: 30622318592
09:22
however:
09:22
gzip:
09:22
fiesh@ltsp117 /usr/bin % time cp inkscape /tmp/
09:22
cp inkscape /tmp/ 0.00s user 0.22s system 66% cpu 0.329 total
09:22
xz:
09:22
fiesh@ltsp117 /usr/bin % time cp inkscape /tmp/
09:22
<Helenah>
I'd rather printer sharing on the server too, so I'm glad it happens there by default.
09:22
<fiesh>
cp inkscape /tmp/ 0.00s user 0.70s system 88% cpu 0.793 total
09:22
lz4:
09:22
fiesh@ltsp117 /usr/bin % time cp inkscape /tmp/
09:22
cp inkscape /tmp/ 0.00s user 0.08s system 35% cpu 0.232 total
09:22
<Helenah>
Wouldn't a pastebin be better?
09:22
<fiesh>
so I go for lz4 now, it has better performance (it's actually slightly noticable when starting big applications like firefox)
09:22
<alkisg>
Yeah a pastebin would help there... fiesh let me read those..
09:23
<fiesh>
ah yeah that would have been smarter ;)
09:23
<Helenah>
IRC is slow with message buffers, and therefore can garble up conversations.
09:23
<fiesh>
sorry yeah I'm in a big factory at a customer right now, kinda distracted ;)
09:23
<alkisg>
fiesh: I'm not sure what the tests involved, but anyway the end result is that the ltsp defaults are fine for now?
09:23
<Helenah>
It's fine, don't worry about it, it's only me, alkisg and you, and I feel for you with the distraction part.
09:24
<fiesh>
alkisg: the end result is that lz4 provides, with a rather big margin, for the best performance -- at least with rather fast hardware and gigabit ethernet
09:24
<alkisg>
fiesh: what is the ltsp default,lz4?
09:25
fiesh: also, I'd test with something that needed 10+ seconds to be more reliable, and I'd drop the kernel caches before doing so
09:28
<fiesh>
alkisg: ltsp defaults to gzip. there was no caching involved, the file is like 20M, but I agree one could have picked something bigger
09:29
<Helenah>
I'm not really sure how to log into the cups ui
09:29
I'll probs research that one tho
09:29
<alkisg>
Helenah: you can use distro channels for general help that doesn't involve ltsp
09:29
For gnome, it should be in the printers dialog, settings menu
09:30
Helenah: but I already gave you the command line for it, so you don't even need to research it
09:30
Helenah: try: system-config-printer
09:32
<fiesh>
anyway, I think lz4 is probably the best option by default, unless file size really matters (and our image is rather huge I'd assume compared to normal applications)
09:33
<Helenah>
The only printer I seem to be getting is cups-brf-printer
09:33
<alkisg>
Helenah: do you mean on the server, or on the clients?
09:33
<Helenah>
Hold on, I think I found the issue
09:36
Yeah, it appears I didn't have the printer allocated to the VM, I've allocated it so hopefully I'll have better luck next time.
09:36
alkisg: The server
09:37
<alkisg>
Ah ok, not an ltsp issue then; again the #distro channel would be better
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10:17
<Helenah>
Hi
10:18
Okay so, I'm now confused, I thought the tftpboot dir was in /var/lib? According to locate, I no longer have this directory and I need to edit the lts.conf file within it.
10:18
I didn't remove it either.
10:19
<alkisg>
locate might not be up to date. Try ls /var/lib/tftpboot
10:19
<Helenah>
I did, the dir isn't there anymore
10:19
<alkisg>
There's no LTSP code to delete that dir
10:19
<Helenah>
Then I'm confused
10:20
<alkisg>
Something else deleted it, probably manual
10:20
<Helenah>
hmm
10:20
and how are clients able to boot without it?
10:20
It must be on the system, right?
10:20
<alkisg>
Are you sure you're on the server and not in your chroot?
10:20
<Helenah>
otherwise... clients wouldn't boot
10:20
Yeah
10:20
I double checked I was on the right server, then I double checked I wasn't in a chroot
10:20
and I made sure nothing else was trying to use the same IP as the server
10:21
even though I know nothing else would be doing that anyway
10:21
<alkisg>
Try restarting dnsmasq, then rebooting a client
10:21
There are other tftp dirs but I doubt you changed your setup to use a different dir without you knowing about it
10:22
<Helenah>
Weird... dnsmasq has gone too...
10:22
<alkisg>
It sounds like you're not in your server :)
10:22
Open a new terminal tab
10:22
Or reboot
10:23
<Helenah>
Okay, I sorted the issue, a triple check cut it.
10:23
I found it bizarre too btw
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10:35
<Helenah>
Coffee never tasted soo goood, coffee never tasted soo goood, coffee never tasted so good... to me
10:42
alkisg: If I ever bump into you irl, I'll buy you a beer, hows that sound?
10:42
<alkisg>
Helenah: where are you located?
10:43
<Helenah>
UK, not suggesting that you're in the UK, however, you never know? I might go abroad or something and bump into some guy with an LTSP t-shirt, hey wouldn't that be neato?
10:46
<alkisg>
Sure, great :)
10:46
<Helenah>
:)
10:47
Anyway, I was trying to encorporate LTSP in with textile manufacturing processes and CNC, the setup is stable and working.
10:48
CNC embroidery and 3D printing for buttons to be exact.
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14:05
<bwicksall>
Any tips for removing a systemd service from the client? I have x11vnc.service for remote access to the server. I don't want this service to run on the clients.
14:10
<alkisg>
bwicksall: RM_SYSTEM_SERVICES=x11vnc
14:10
(in lts.conf)
14:11
<bwicksall>
I knew it would be easy. Thanks!
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19:22
<enaut[m]>
Anyone any Idea?
19:32
<Hyperbyte>
enaut[m], I have lots of ideas about lots of things. What are you talking about?
19:35
<enaut[m]>
I have just seen that my initial question didn't make it to the irc - maybe the matrix transport isn't that good :(
19:35
I did setup a ubuntu 18.04 ltsp however many programms do not start (gnome-terminal, libreoffice...)
19:35
gome terminal says "# Error constructing proxy For org.gnome.terminal […] timeout"
19:36
libreoffice complains that java is not installed then segfaults.
19:36
<||cw>
they run fine on the server itself?
19:36
<enaut[m]>
what could have gone wrong? I followed http://wiki.ltsp.org/wiki/Installation/Ubuntu the chroot path...
19:36
yep
19:37
though I have a chroot setup so the server and the chroot is probably something different... I did not try to qemu or something similar.
19:38
if I generate the image from the root of the system they work too...
19:38
<||cw>
is the client fat or thin mode?
19:39
<enaut[m]>
I followed http://wiki.ltsp.org/wiki/Installation/Ubuntu the chroot path...
19:39
I think I succeeded in making it fat...
19:39
<||cw>
it can still be either, default is based on client RAM
19:39
1GB ram or more?
19:40
<enaut[m]>
2-3GB of ram
19:40
<||cw>
so should be fat. other programs work?
19:40
<enaut[m]>
in client 8GB in server
19:41
xterm works fine... while I created it I added the parameter ltsp-build-client --fat
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19:42
<||cw>
google says it's a locale issue
19:42
<alkisg>
" while I created it I added the parameter ltsp-build-client --fat " ==> enaut[m], when you open an xterm on the client, do you see user@serverhostname, or user@ltsp123?
19:43
(there's no --fat option, unless you typed it wrong just now)
19:44
<||cw>
https://askubuntu.com/questions/608330/problem-with-gnome-terminal-on-gnome-3-12-2/651169#651169
19:44
<enaut[m]>
It was user@ltsp345 ...
19:45
<alkisg>
OK that means it's fat. And what's the output of env | grep ^L ?
19:45
Put it to pastebin...
19:47
one easy way to put it to pastebin: env | grep ^L | nc termbin.com 9999
19:48
<enaut[m]>
The locale thing could be the problem... I'll try that one tomorow unfortunately I'm at home now so I can not do your commands alkisg - will do tomorrow too but I think you helped already
19:48
<alkisg>
Oh that was ||cw helping, not me :) If it's indeed an issue, let's document it in the wiki.
19:49
The chroot method needs some love from an ltsp developer though, noone uses it anymore...
19:49
<enaut[m]>
yes I will report it if I find a solution...
19:51
but while we are at it... I think the ltsp-update-image in the chroot mode requires the chroot as argument isn't it?
19:51
<alkisg>
Not for the default chroot
19:51
So if you have a default chroot named e.g. amd64, you can omit it
19:52
<enaut[m]>
but then it created an image of my server running ubuntu instead of an image of the chroot...
19:54
<||cw>
wait, the chroot isn't ubuntu?
19:55
<enaut[m]>
meaning on my server there is very little installed and on the thin clients I have libreoffice and stuff installed. when I just did ltsp-update-image I only had the server programs.
19:55
everything is ubuntu
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19:56
<Hyperbyte>
Hey hey alkisg what's this
19:56
"noone uses it anymore"?
19:57* Hyperbyte is a proud user of chroots in at least 2 installations.
19:57
<enaut[m]>
*ubuntu18.04 to be more specific
19:57
I'll also retry and report that back tomorrow
19:58
<Hyperbyte>
You and your efficient, easy, shiny 'chrootless' setup. Bah. Some people just like the classics.
19:58
;-)
19:58
To be fair I would probably switch everything I have over to chrootless and fat client when I can.
19:59
<enaut[m]>
Hyperbyte, ||cw : I had the pnp installation running with a virtual machine... however I found it confusing to mix the server and client stuff
19:59
<||cw>
how so? you don't have to have X11 actually run on the server
20:00
<Hyperbyte>
enaut[m], same here. I'm actually using thin clients, so there's a bit more advantages in that case vs. if you're using fat clients.
20:00
<||cw>
I mean, a gui login prompt
20:00
<Hyperbyte>
For fat clients, it might be easier to go the chrootless way. But I do understand it can be a confusing concept at first.
20:03
<enaut[m]>
Anyways thanks for the help so far...
20:05
<alkisg>
[22:56] <Hyperbyte> "noone uses it anymore"? => noone of the developers, I mean
20:06
Hyperbyte: for example, the locale might be set by casper, while debootstrap doesn't have that code. Which means ltsp-build-client should get that code; but that will only happen if someone actually tests/codes it...
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20:43
<alkisg>
[22:52] <enaut[m]> but then it created an image of my server running ubuntu instead of an image of the chroot... ==> that's only if you specify "/" as the name
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