IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 26 May 2011   (all times are UTC)

00:17markit (~marco@151.8.82.210) joined #ltsp.
00:20
<markit>
hi, kubuntu 11.04, I'm at work and away from my updated notes about ltsp setup. I use dnsmasq, is the "dhcp-option=17,/opt/ltsp/i386 " line needed? The comment above in the only dnsmasq.conf file I've is "rootpath option for NFS", but kubuntu uses NBD
00:32
<muppis>
Hmm.. I think not.
00:35
markit, I use this kind of dnsmasq: http://pastebin.com/HVPvCMRF
00:36
<markit>
muppis: thanks
00:36
<muppis>
It is quite simple as is it used in dd-wrt based router and other dhcp settings is handled elsewhere.
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02:18
<Hyperbyte>
Hey Da-Geek, alkisg, muppis, andygraybeal, *. :-)
02:23
<Gnoze5>
good morning
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02:46
<alkisg>
Good ...noon
02:46
<Hyperbyte>
Good mornoon. :)
02:47
<markit>
hi alkisg :)
02:53
<muppis>
Good noon. :)
03:04
<Da-Geek>
Hyperbyte, ty for using Da-Geek that time, now I dont feel like im in trouble like last time
03:04
<Hyperbyte>
HI GAVIN
03:04
:D
03:05
Hehe, j/k. ;-)
03:05
<Da-Geek>
lol
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03:34
<Hyperbyte>
Trixboxer. :)
03:34
<Trixboxer>
o/ Hyperbyte
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04:40
<markit>
mmm I've a minimal setup of ltsp just to run rdesktop against a M$server
04:40
one thin client does not boot because "features not present n the cpu: cx8 cmov"
04:40
I've chrooted, but aptitude search linux-image does not show a "low power " kernel available
04:41
any tip?
04:41
in addition, a different client boots fine, but does not rdesktop to the M$ server, just a black screen and the cursor.. I've rdesktop in the chroot AND in the "host" (ltsp server)
04:41
am I missing something?
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04:48
<markit>
and what creen_xx shoud I use?
04:48
<alkisg>
markit: for the cmov instruction, use a 10.04 chroot, it's the last ubuntu version that supports non-i686 CPUs
04:49
<markit>
alkisg: funny, I've upgraded to 11.04 to have a better support for newer hardware
04:49
<alkisg>
You have old hardware though :D
04:49
<markit>
alkisg: do you remember what screen_xx should I use for rdesktop? I've used debian and I know there are differences with ubuntu
04:49
<muppis>
markit, 02
04:49
<markit>
I've at the moment
04:50
<alkisg>
Which ever you want, except 01
04:50
<markit>
SCREEN_07 = ldm
04:50
SCREEN_08 = rdesktop -f -k it 192.168.1.5
04:50
but after boot I get a black screen and the mouse pointer
04:51
<Hyperbyte>
I've asked this in #ubuntu as well, but I'm dropping it here too... everytime I reboot a thin client, the default sound card input gets reset to "Analog Input". I need to use "Rear Microphone" by default though. Anyone know how I can set this automatically via command line?
04:51
The 'automatically' part I got covered, but how to set this via command line is puzzling me.
04:51
<alkisg>
Command line? Not lts.conf?
04:51
<Hyperbyte>
Can I set it in lts.conf?
04:51
<alkisg>
Get a root shell on the client, and play with "amixer"
04:51* Hyperbyte bangs head against rock
04:51
<alkisg>
Once you get it working with amixer, you can then do it with lts.conf
04:52
<muppis>
Hyperbyte, concrete wall is too soft?
04:52
<Hyperbyte>
muppis, well actually I lied. I don't have any rocks in my office.
04:52
<alkisg>
When you find one, please put it to youtube, it'll be helpful to other #ltsp-ers :D
04:52
<Hyperbyte>
I wanted to type 'desk', but I thought 'rock' would be good for dramatic effect. Either way, I'm lying, because I didn't really bang my head on anything. Don't tell alkisg though.
04:53
<muppis>
Hyperbyte, I've been literally banging my head to wall because of MS.
04:54
<Hyperbyte>
muppis, do tell.
04:54
<alkisg>
markit: first verify that that command works if you issue it from within a gnome session
04:54
<Hyperbyte>
alkisg, isn't amixer for alsa instead of pulseaudio?>
04:55
man says it is.
04:55
Which explains why it says "Mixer attach default error: no such file or directory" ?
04:55
<alkisg>
Hyperbyte: pulseaudio uses alsa as the backend, afaik
04:55
<Hyperbyte>
alkisg, I think I need to do it via pactl
04:55
I can set volume that way.
04:56
<alkisg>
LTSP uses amixer to initialize the card, the volume etc
04:56
And it works fine
04:56
<Hyperbyte>
mhm
04:56
<alkisg>
It also allows to set on-off controls like the headphone jack etc
04:57
The added benefit is that whatever you can do with amixer, you can also do with lts.conf VOLUME* variables
05:00
<mgariepy>
good morning everyone
05:02
<alkisg>
Hi mgariepy
05:04
<mgariepy>
how do you do?
05:10
<markit>
alkisg: can't verify the gnome session works, is not really a ltsp "server", I've not installed the graphical part on the server, it only has to rdesktop to M$crapos
05:11
<alkisg>
markit: didn't you say you have SCREEN_07=ldm? Just login to an xterm session from ldm
05:12
Or try it from a non-ltsp workstation
05:12
<markit>
previous ltsp with debian works fine
05:13
since new hardware is not supported, I've created a new virtual machine with natty and tried to reconfigure
05:14
I'm searching the ubuntu ltsp wiki for rdesktop, but can't find samples for lts.conf, not google is providing trustable info
05:14
in any case, I've to go back to older VM, collegues are coming back in office :)
05:15
where is the screen_xx stuff explained? to know that _01 is not available, and what are those _xx numbers for? (1-6 text, 7-? graphic?)
05:18
there is something here http://manpages.ubuntu.com/manpages/lucid/man5/lts.conf.5.html
05:19
<alkisg>
markit: see this file for an rdesktop example: /opt/ltsp/i386/usr/share/ltsp/screen.d/rdesktop
05:19
But for example, you might be missing NATting on the server
05:19
So getting an xterm and trying it locally is the most easy way to solve your problem
05:21
<markit>
alkisg: mm why natting on the server? we are on the same subnet of M$server
05:21
<alkisg>
Then you wouldn't need nat, i'm just saying that the best thing is to try locally, and see why it fails, instead of searching the web
05:21
<markit>
alkisg: just got puzzled by the fact that can't find updated info on the web
05:22
<alkisg>
Good sources are `man lts.conf`, the .pdf on the /topic, the ubuntu-ltsp wiki, and this channel's logs
05:22
If some documentation is missing, someone has to write it :)
05:23
<markit>
I'm so confused... and I'm often mixing information from my debian install, ubuntu one, old notes, uncertain web info, etc...
05:24
usually you are my only trustable source of info
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06:05
<Gnoze5>
gentlemen
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06:21
<Gnoze5>
hm
06:22
why are these mini-itx cases so expensive?
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07:27
<Roasted>
hi
07:28
<Hyperbyte>
Yo!
07:28
<Roasted>
It seems as if I haven't been to LTSP in quite some time.
07:29
I think that's partially due to the fact the damn thing never breaks on me.
07:29
I have yet to touch any of the 3 servers I deployed. Can you guys stop being so awesome?
07:30
<Hyperbyte>
Hah
07:30
I'm still in the process of getting a 100% succesful deployment
07:30
<Roasted>
how big of an environment are you setting up?
07:31
<Hyperbyte>
Not that big.
07:31
<Roasted>
What's keeping you back from 100%?
07:31
<Hyperbyte>
Softphone.
07:31
But I figured out today where I was going wrong with that.
07:32
So you know, I can't yet say it's saving me lots of time on system administration (although I'm sure we'll get to that point soon)
07:32
I can however safely say LTSPROCKS. :)
07:32
<Roasted>
Wait... I thought you meant LTSP was holding you back from 100%
07:32
<Hyperbyte>
No, LTSP is performing fine
07:32
<Roasted>
ahh, good good
07:32
<Hyperbyte>
The whole Linux environment it brings along has created some bumps.
07:32
<Roasted>
yeah I only had that time issue a while back
07:33
but the devs here helped me super quick with getting a fix, and filed it upstream to get an official fix
07:33
<Hyperbyte>
But that is to be expected with every new environment, be it Linux or Windows 7.
07:33
I needed to upgrade from Windows XP workstations and I thought an LTSP environment would be the best choice, because of the ability to centralize all sysadmin tasks.
07:34
<Roasted>
yeah.
07:34
I like being able to just SSH into the server and apt-get a program that they might need.
07:34
<Hyperbyte>
Yeah
07:34
<Roasted>
have you ever used puppet?
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07:56
<Hyperbyte>
Puppet? Can't say that I have.
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08:06
<Roasted>
Hyperbyte, supposedly it's a solid linux management application, similar to casper for mac. I read the systems check in every so often to the puppet server and you can issue commands for them to run once they check in.
08:10
<Gnoze5>
puppet is cool
08:10
lol
08:12
are there any companies selling services using ltsp?
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08:28
<veloutin>
Gnoze5: what scale of deployment?
08:29
<tastle73>
I got a tough problem
08:29
<Gnoze5>
well
08:30
any scale really
08:30
im designing two solutions atm
08:30
both for 20 users each
08:30
they are our customers
08:30
using windows + AD atm
08:31
the whole, why are you paying for licenses when you can have it free argument convinced them
08:33
<highvoltage>
Gnoze5: revolution linux (company that mgariepy, veloutin and myself works for) sells ltsp related services, http://revolutionlinux.com
08:34
<veloutin>
although 20 users might be a bit smallish
08:34
<highvoltage>
Gnoze5: and there are others too, but obviously I'm kind of biased :)
08:36
depends what your problem is. #ltsp is generally very helpful already, at least in my experience
08:36
<Gnoze5>
i know
08:36
what im thinking of doing
08:36
is making this something we sell as a service as well
08:36
especially to non profits
08:36
we work with non profits
08:36
and are partly owned by a very big non profit as well
08:37
and this makes a lot of sense
08:37
im sick of MS and friends
08:37
useless complex solutions
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08:40
<Gnoze5>
we live nowhere near you so dont worry
08:40
:P
08:41
<veloutin>
you can still check us out, we might be able to help
08:41
lunch time here
08:42
<Gnoze5>
yes
08:42
im checking you out
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08:48
<Gnoze5>
veloutin when you use xen you run LTSP on a PVed linux vm?
08:50
<tastle73>
on ltsp-4.2 I used to have a GDM post login script that rsync a user's home directory from a remote server to the local ltsp server.
08:50
now I'm trying to duplicate this in ltsp5 and I can't make it work
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08:52
<tastle73>
i tried putting it in /opt/ltsp/i386/usr/share/ldm/rc.d but it is not at all having the same effect
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08:58
<alkisg>
Why not put it to /etc/xdg/autostart so that it takes effect no matter how the user logs in?
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09:24
<fruza>
Hi, anybody alive out there ?
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09:25
<alkisg>
It's usually best to directly ask your question
09:25
<Gadi>
only the out-of-work zombies left over from the Rapture
09:25
oh, no wait
09:25
:)
09:30
<Gnoze5>
im a zombie
09:30
but i can still think
09:30
most of the times..
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09:36
<robehend1>
hey guys. what is the command to check which port my images are being exported with in NBD again?
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09:40
<tastle73>
alkisg were you talking to me?
09:41
<alkisg>
tastle73: yup
09:41
robehend1: cat /etc/inetd.conf
09:41
<robehend1>
alkisg: Thanks! i knew it was somewhere ;)
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09:44
<fruza>
Has anybody implemented any boot splash for thin clients with debian squeeze ??
09:50
<Gnoze5>
so
09:51
i booted 20 vms on my ltsp server
09:51
wanted to do some stress tests
09:51
any ideas for routines i can run on the vms?
09:51
<alkisg>
Youtube :P
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09:52
<Gnoze5>
...
09:52
<alkisg>
There's also the "stress" command
09:52
<Gnoze5>
im going to have flash local..
10:00
what i mean ios how can i simulate a users routine
10:01
<veloutin>
youtube is pretty good for that heh
10:02
<highvoltage>
Gnoze5: cool! (on making a service for non-profits)
10:02
<Gnoze5>
but isnt flash something prohibitive to be used on server side?
10:02
highvoltage heh thanks! ill keep you posted
10:02
<veloutin>
we usually run firefox as a local app because it eats so much resources on the server
10:02
<Gnoze5>
veloutin my idea exactly
10:03
anyone can i assume that 1 toubue video is higher stress on the server than the user using word excel browsing etc?
10:03
*anyway
10:03
*youtube
10:03
<veloutin>
I think so
10:03
flash likes hogging a whole cpu
10:03
<Gnoze5>
highvoltage you cant imagine how much hardware i see ngos throwing away that would be perfect thing clients...
10:05
*thin
10:05
what the hell is wrong with my keyboard lol
10:06
veloutin yesterday we were testing google video chat
10:06
it actually worked
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10:35
<highvoltage>
Gnoze5: yeah, lots of good hardware gets trashed
10:42
<Gnoze5>
i myself have refused a lot of HW
10:42
because it has no value in windows environments
10:46
<highvoltage>
just be careful not to receive bad hardware, I've seen some organisations say "yay free hardware" and accepted a lot of trash that they ended up having to dispose of
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11:26
<Gnoze5>
hm im trying ltsp on 11.04
11:26
everything seems slower
11:26
than 10.10
11:29
ubuntu that is
11:29
maybe i should try 10.04
11:29
<mgariepy>
11.04 have some issue with DRI
11:54
<Lns>
Gnoze5, I recommend trying a few different versions/distros and see which one suits your needs best
11:57
<Hyperbyte>
mgariepy, what's DRI?
11:59
<mgariepy>
direct rendering stuff for X
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12:03
<alkisg>
Lns: have you deployed ltsp with debian anywhere?
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12:20
<alkisg>
Big changes in the horizon... http://wiki.debian.org/systemd, http://wiki.debian.org/ReleaseGoals/RunDirectory, not to mention unity and wayland...
12:21
<vagrantc>
the RunDirectory thing totally breaks LTSP :(
12:21
i mean, it'll be fixable ... but i haven't had time to look at it
12:21
at least, i assume it'll be fixable :)
12:22
<alkisg>
Being new to linux, I wonder if with all the changes, distros get closer to each other, or drift further apart...
12:22
<vagrantc>
some of both, of course :)
12:25
<alkisg>
"Note that a bigger issue that /run goes a long way to solving is having a completely read-only root filesystem." ==> that sounds good for LTSP in the long run
12:25
<vagrantc>
right
12:26
will make it trickier to have a minimally patched backport, though...
12:27
<highvoltage>
alkisg: many of the changes provide opportunities for things to move closer together, but unfortunately it doesn't always work out like that (see gnome vs unity, etc)
12:27
<alkisg>
Hehe I hope they all fight too much about gnome and give up and use qt instead, much cleaner programming interface :P
12:29* alkisg sometimes wonders how distros would be if developers' efforts were more coordinated...
12:30
<vagrantc>
my guess is the /var/run and /var/lock becoming symlinks to /run/* is what's breaking LTSP on debian
12:31Trixboxer (~Trixboxer@office.supportdepartment.net) left irc: Quit: "Achievement is not the end, its the beginning of new journey !!!"
12:31
<alkisg>
Why would that break it?
12:31gentgeen__ (~kevin@c-98-236-71-64.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) left irc: Ping timeout: 240 seconds
12:32* alkisg also didn't understand how will the /var/run/* directories be created on each boot
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12:37
<vagrantc>
i think bind-mounting on top of symlinks borks
12:38
so the bind-mounts fail, and then everything else fails too
12:38
<alkisg>
If /var/ is ephemeral, how will the initscript know that dnsmasq needs a /run/dnsmasq dir owned by the dnsmasq user?
12:39
The packages will create their dirs to /var/run even after the transitional period?
12:39
*if /run/ is ephemeral...
12:40
Unless /var/dirs will actually be preserved across boots
12:41
*/run/dirs, dammit :)
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12:42
<vagrantc>
packages are supposed to ensure that /var/run/* is created by the appropriate init script
12:42
or whatever
12:42
been debian policy for at least two releases, now
12:43
<alkisg>
Ty, didn't know that
12:43* alkisg makes a note to make sch-scripts policy compliant :D
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12:56
12:59
<Hyperbyte>
alkisg: I have tomorrow off, to compensate for all the extra hours I had to put it in to fix Fedora LTSP (read: to install Edubuntu)
13:00
Now, the actually message here is: me and my bosses finally feel LTSP (and more importantly, the softphone inside it) is functioning good enough to be left alone for 1 day. :)
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13:00
<Hyperbyte>
I think I've never had this many problems with the VoIP telephony all at once.
13:02
At the same I upgraded to Edubuntu, our VoIP provided decided to change some codec settings, which made our softphones incompatible with their servers. Of course they didn't tell me, and I spent hours debugging the softphone, rather than actually checking the provider side.
13:02
Meanwhile the new headsets I bought were defective. How could you go wrong with a headset with two simple jack plugs you wonder... no idea, but apparently Creative manages.
13:03
But I'm finally convinced it's going to work flawless tomorrow. :)
13:04
<alkisg>
Hyperbyte: wow, sounds like 5 nightmares in a row
13:04
Hope noone calls you tomorrow :)
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13:12
<Hyperbyte>
Well, I said I wanted a call anyways. Status update if you will. :)
13:12
But I hope it's not -that- call, no. :)
13:14
Oh, and my new electric scooter drives like a beauty. Goes from 0 to 30 in a little under 4 seconds.
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14:52
<Gnoze5>
Lns we are going to try 10.04 tnight
14:52
the experience with 11.04 was not great at all
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14:59
<Gnoze5>
Hyperbyte 30mph?
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15:27
<Lns>
alkisg + vagrantc: (yeah I know you're not online) regarding systemd, from the intro (and I know I'm not considering all of the core differences regarding LTSP but hopefully this helps in some respects): "...implements an elaborate transactional dependency-based service control logic. It can work as a drop-in replacement for sysvinit." (from http://wiki.debian.org/systemd#Introduction )
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15:36
<Gnoze5>
Lns you do realize once they read it they will be online...
15:38
<Lns>
Gnoze5, lemme know how 10.04 hams out for ya.. what happened w/11.04?
15:41
<Gnoze5>
random errors
15:41
it was quite slow
15:41
i hung quite a bit
15:42
*it
15:42
<Lns>
what kind of client hardware you using? how many clients?
15:42
<Gnoze5>
different stuff
15:42
<Lns>
now that was w/using unity?
15:42
<Gnoze5>
i have an hp high end thin client
15:42
a few laptops
15:42
and i have virtualization test server
15:43
where i spawn vms
15:43
like 10 at a time
15:43
i mean
15:43
i go slowly
15:43
<Lns>
right on
15:43
<Gnoze5>
and then i try boot storm
15:43
<Lns>
have you tried out debian or any other dist also?
15:43
<Gnoze5>
not yet
15:45
Lns what do you use?
15:45
<Lns>
Debian 6.0
15:46
but I use whatever fits best for the scenario
15:46
<Gnoze5>
hm
15:46
what exactly are the factors that make you use one or the other?
15:48
<Lns>
Well, for me Debian is better than Ubuntu because it changes less. I don't have to really worry about upgrading a major release because, for the most part, things are just taken care of.
15:48
<Gnoze5>
hm
15:48
but when you are deploying
15:49
and pick a release
15:49
you update it?
15:50
my instinct tells me to avoid messing with software and dependencies especially if something is "stable"
15:50
<Lns>
I don't get what you mean
15:50
do I update it after i install from CD? Of course
15:51
update the chroot too obviously
15:51
<Gnoze5>
not that
15:51
thjat makes perfect sense
15:51
i mean
15:51
once you feel its stable
15:51
and everything is working fine
15:51
<Lns>
sure
15:51
updates are a fact of life
15:51
<Gnoze5>
i agree
15:51
but im very careful with updastes
15:52
maybe its a windows environment bad habbit..
15:52
lol
15:52
<Lns>
probably =p
15:52
<Gnoze5>
our BSD guy on the other hand
15:52
is nuts
15:52
everything has to be bleeding edge
15:52
<Lns>
I've never had issues with debian updates, even through major release updates.. like i said it pretty much just works
15:52
(at least with stable/testing trees)
15:53
well bleeding edge BSD is like...still way stable =p
15:54
<Gnoze5>
ok in your honour next distro trial will be Debian
15:54
<Lns>
lol, in my honour?
15:55* Lns bows humbly
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15:57
<Lns>
Gnoze5, what's your environment specifically?
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16:04
<Gnoze5>
we already have two different deployments in line
16:04
they are similar though
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16:10
<Gnoze5>
I killed my gateway lol... forgot I was on it.
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17:11
<Gnoze5>
why is LDM_THEME not documented on the manpages for ubuntu?
17:15
<vagrantc>
because someone didn't think to document it (in time)
17:15
Gnoze5: but if you file a bug report, you can help contribute to it getting fixed!
17:15
maybe even get your name in lights, or at least a changelog
17:16
<Gnoze5>
lol getting my name anywhere is not something that attracts me
17:16
anyway
17:16
where should i file the bug report?
17:16
ubuntu directly?
17:17
and is this really a bug..
17:17
hm
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18:12
<Gnoze5>
hm
18:12
just tried firefox and flash as local on 10.10
18:12
firefox opens locally great but flash doesnt seem to work
18:12
videos wond load
18:12
<Lns>
ah, flash.
18:15
<Gnoze5>
lol
18:15
most of them its
18:15
users cant justify using flash in a work environment
18:16
<Lns>
it comes up almost everywhere..and is a real pita..but if you get it working decently w/localapps, you should be fine
18:17
the thing that sucks is that flash is such a resource hog it's hard to get inexpensive, low-power thin clients that can handle a fullscreen YT video without you thinking you're watching an 1800's era flipbook jukebox
18:19
<Gnoze5>
hm
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00:00--- Fri May 27 2011