IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 15 March 2011   (all times are UTC)

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08:12
<KBme>
hi
08:13
i was wondering if someone knew if i needed an expensive switch or if I can do dhcp-proxy and extended dhcp via a debian host with isc-dhcpd
08:14
last time i set up ltsp the network part (big cisco switches back then) was handled by a guy who knew the cisco stuff
08:14
<alkisg>
Can you describe your current situation and your goal better?
08:15
<KBme>
well, we're about to set up a 6/8-machine ltsp room
08:15
the goal is to minimise administration time by using thin clients and ltsp-server
08:15
i'm preparing to buy the hardware now
08:15
<alkisg>
I mean about your network setup, your switches etc
08:15
What do you need a proxy for, etc
08:15
<KBme>
ah
08:16
well there is allready a network set up
08:16
a small office network
08:16
so we're going to buy a 24-port gigabit switch
08:16
just for that room
08:16
so there is allready a dhcp server (the adsl modem)
08:17
<alkisg>
There are many solutions, just trying to understand what you need so that we can propose one that suits you better
08:17
<KBme>
but i'm really not sure i need proxy-dhcp, i think a debian dhcp server with pxe defined should do the job fine i think
08:17
alkisg: really, my problem is that switches with pxe support are really expensive
08:17
<alkisg>
First of all do you know what a proxydhcp is?
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08:17
<KBme>
so i want to bypass that
08:18
<alkisg>
Because isc-dhcp never supported that
08:18
ics-dhcp has a dhcp relay application, not a proxy one
08:18
<KBme>
alkisg: i don't think so...i thought i had read about it on the pxe wikipedia page
08:18
<alkisg>
dnsmasq supports proxy dhcp
08:18
You don't need pxe support on the switch
08:18
But let's get this from the start
08:19
The classic ltsp setup is with 2 nics on the ltsp server
08:19
Are you going to use 2 nics?
08:19
<KBme>
ok that's pretty much what i needed to know
08:19
huuuum, i can have two nics, yes
08:19
we can but an other gigabit nic that's a non-issue
08:19
s,but,buy,
08:19
<alkisg>
Then you just isolate the ltsp clients behind the gigabit switch, and connect the other nic to the internet
08:19
That's the classic ltsp setup
08:20
<KBme>
ah
08:20
<alkisg>
You don't need any special configuration or hardware for that
08:20
<KBme>
interesting
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08:20
<KBme>
ok, is there a specific reason why you isolate ltsp clients?
08:20
<alkisg>
First, so that you don't mess with your existing network setup
08:20
<Roasted__>
Question. I'm setting up a server with two NIC's. I'm using a Windows DHCP server. Would I just have to create two entries on the DHCP server of those 3 lines in the documentation, with each set of 3 pertaining to each IP?
08:21
<alkisg>
I.e. keep the dhcp server on the router running , etc. Second, for security
08:21
<KBme>
ok, a smart reason :)
08:21
yeap
08:21
ok, thanks
08:21
<alkisg>
Now, that's the classic setup, but of course you can use 1 nic (I am)
08:21
For 1 nic, you can use a proxydhcp: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/ProxyDHCP
08:21
<KBme>
i'll come back for moar probably ;)
08:21
<alkisg>
OK if you don't need other options :)
08:21
<KBme>
heheh
08:22
what is the easiest ltsp setup? debian? ubuntu?
08:22
<Appiah>
my experince says Ubuntu
08:23
<KBme>
damn :)
08:23
<alkisg>
Debian is not much harder, don't worry
08:24
<KBme>
right on
08:24
alkisg: well, i think isolating the network is a very good idea, so i'll add a gige nic to the shopping list ;)
08:25
<alkisg>
KBme: well, it depends on your goals
08:25
E.g. if you start talking about localapps and fat clients, you won't get much out of network isolation
08:25
<KBme>
localapps?
08:25
wat? :)
08:26
is that lolcatapps misspelled? :p
08:26* KBme googles localapps
08:26
<alkisg>
Heh
08:26
!docs
08:26
Erm the bot's down, see the topic for the docs link
08:26
<KBme>
ah, ok
08:27
alkisg: on the wiki? i did a full-text search but it returned nothing interesting
08:27
<alkisg>
There's a multi-page pdf there
08:28
<KBme>
gotcha
08:29
alkisg: well, local applications page is kind of empty :p
08:32
<Roasted__>
any ideas on dual nics?
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08:32
<KBme>
Roasted__: what do you mean?
08:32
<Roasted__>
Question. I'm setting up a server with two NIC's. I'm using a Windows DHCP server. Would I just have to create two entries on the DHCP server of those 3 lines in the documentation, with each set of 3 pertaining to each IP?
08:32
<KBme>
Roasted__: are both nics connected to the windows machine?
08:33
<Roasted__>
both nics are connected to the network. on the network is the windows dhcp machine.
08:34
I'm curious if utilizing both gig nic's would help out in any way shape or form bandwidth wise
08:34
I mean, they're here, why not use them
08:34
but I wasn't sure how EACH nic would know about the windows DHCP server unless I put in the entries in the windows DHCP server the way I did for my other server iwth 1 nic. I just wasn't sure if I can do that with BOTH.
08:34
<KBme>
Roasted__: you'll probably want to bond those interfaces then to have bigger bandwidth
08:34
<Roasted__>
how would I go about that?
08:34
<KBme>
so if you do bond then you don't need to add two entries
08:35
but your router/switch has to support it
08:35
Roasted__: just look for a linux interface bonding documentation
08:35
it's really simple
08:35
there's multiple ways to do it depending on your network configuration
08:36
<Roasted__>
is it even possible to do what I was asking about though, for sake of knowing?
08:36
<KBme>
and what you want to use bonding for
08:36
yes, it is possible
08:36
this is linux! ;)
08:37
i did some bonding and it did help a whole lot
08:37
<Roasted__>
no I meant with the windows dhcp side
08:37
if I want 2 NICs do I just add two entries to DHCP
08:37
about the pxe boot for the LTSP server
08:38
<KBme>
well
08:38
<Roasted__>
I know I have to do it for one, I did it on my test server. But now that I have 2 NICs Im like ehh?
08:38
<KBme>
i'm not sure about that you might need to do trial and error
08:38
for the bonding type where your interfaces appears as one interface i don't think you need to add two entries
08:38
that's what you use if you bond for performance reasons
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09:03
<gnujach>
help i have a thin client with video card INTEL 82845G with problem someone helpme?
09:04
<Appiah>
!ask
09:05
hmm
09:05
we dont have that =(
09:05
just ask and state your problem gnujach
09:05
<mnemoc>
hi, for playing with LTSP locally, do you know in ubuntu where can I tweak the config network-manager passes to dnsmasq when used to share internet? according to `ps` it's using --conf-file /tmp/mbnyvvmubx.conf but that file doesn't exist :<
09:06
<gnujach>
my X cratch Appiah
09:06
<Appiah>
maybe ask that #ubuntu or #gnome mnemoc
09:07
i assume you are talking about the gnome network manager?
09:07
<gnujach>
is a problem with a thin client of LTSP 5
09:07
<Appiah>
gnujach: well what does the xorg log say
09:08
<mnemoc>
gnujach: at least in ubuntu it's used for every DE...
09:08
<gnujach>
are not, how view this
09:08
<mnemoc>
gnujach: asking at #ubuntu too, but i thought more likely to find someone knowing it here than there
09:09
<KBme>
#ubuntu is floodland
09:09
<gnujach>
thank
09:09
<KBme>
i can't even imagine anone getting help in there
09:10
<gnujach>
i guest my problem is with resolution the monitro
09:10
<mnemoc>
KBme: i've tried several times with different topics, but never a reply there :<
09:10
<Appiah>
https://help.ubuntu.com/community/NetworkManager
09:10
<KBme>
mnemoc: yeap, me too, not once did i get help
09:10
<Appiah>
gnujach: did you view the xorg log?
09:10
<KBme>
also, my question flooded past and was on screen for 10 seconds at most
09:11
<Appiah>
well I dont see ever when you deal with the network-manager in a ltsp setup >_>
09:11
<mnemoc>
Appiah: I want to use my notebook as server
09:11
<gnujach>
Appiah are not how can view the xorg log
09:12
<mnemoc>
Appiah: for testing
09:12
<Appiah>
gnujach: open your favorite text editor
09:12
/var/log/Xorg.0.log
09:12
<gnujach>
Appiah
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09:12
<gnujach>
appiah into my server LTSP?
09:12
<Appiah>
gnujach: client
09:13
<gnujach>
Appiah: i cant, my client crash later of login
09:13
<Appiah>
so you get to the login
09:13
and THEN it crashes
09:13
?
09:13
<gnujach>
Appiah: yes
09:14
exact!
09:14
<Appiah>
go to shell
09:14
or ssh to the client
09:14
and access the log
09:14
mnemoc: and you use network-manger to setup a NAT or wat?
09:15
what*
09:15
<gnujach>
Appiah: i go
09:16
Appiah: howto run the command xrandc into my client?
09:16
<Appiah>
xrandc?
09:16
what
09:16
I dont know what that command does and if you want to run it from a client I guess you need to install it in the chroot first
09:17
<gnujach>
xorry rrandr command
09:18
<Appiah>
well same there
09:18
<alkisg>
xrandr
09:18
<mnemoc>
Appiah: yes, it has a one-click option to setup your ethernet in "share" mode (using NAT and dnsmasq magically) ... which is connected to a hub on my desk and then to a PXE thin client. so I want to enable tftp to make it useful :)
09:18
<gnujach>
Apiiah: xrandr
09:19
<alkisg>
gnujach: try this command on the server: sudo gconftool-2 --direct --config-source xml:readwrite:/etc/gconf/gconf.xml.mandatory --type string --set /desktop/gnome/session/required_components/windowmanager metacity
09:19
Then try to login on the client
09:20
<gnujach>
alkisg: I do
09:20
<Appiah>
I see , never used network-manager
09:20
<alkisg>
mnemoc: where is that option?
09:21
<mnemoc>
alkisg: edit eth0 -> ipv4 settings -> method: share with other computers (roughly translated from my .es UI)
09:22
<alkisg>
mnemoc: I'm using lucid gnome, I don't see that "share" option in ipv4 settings tab
09:22
Ah ok
09:22
Just saw it
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09:23
<mnemoc>
after that "/etc/NetworkManager/system-connections/Auto eth0" (dosini file) gains a [ipv4] method=shared
09:23
<alkisg>
Erm. And you don't define an IP there?
09:23
<mnemoc>
all magic
09:23
<alkisg>
But what if you do want a static ip?
09:23
<Appiah>
O_o
09:23
<mnemoc>
I get 10.42.43.1/24
09:23
not sure if it's fixed or random
09:24
<alkisg>
That's for a second NIC?
09:24
<mnemoc>
eth0, I get "internet" from wifi
09:24
and then share it to my desk
09:24
<alkisg>
So a second nic. Cool, thanks for the tip
09:24
I did it manually so far, with NAT
09:25
<mnemoc>
:)
09:25
<Appiah>
same same
09:25
never done any NATing with tools to do them auto for me
09:25
<alkisg>
I did use network-manager to give a 1-nic system 2 IPs though, and it worked great
09:25
<Appiah>
always ended up doing things myself anyways beacuse I wanted something changed
09:26
<KBme>
the thing is that these tools usually add complicated configurations so if you want to 1, understand the network topo. 2, edit something by hand
09:26
<alkisg>
I wonder what happens if I already use dnsmasq though
09:26
<KBme>
you're in a pretty bad shape
09:26
<mnemoc>
i don't feel confortable messing with my $work$station
09:26
<Appiah>
then maybe your ltsp server should be virtual? :)
09:27
<mnemoc>
good point, I already "poisoned" my notebook with LTSP :p
09:27
<KBme>
for anyone looking for nice and simple linux virt i recommend lxc
09:28
<alkisg>
Btw I use my laptop as an ltsp server too, but I use the existing router as a dhcp server wherever I go
09:28
<KBme>
if it's not production
09:28
<alkisg>
So no need for natting or anything weird
09:28
<Appiah>
KBme: I think qemu-kvm and/or virtualbox is easy enough , why lxc? anything better there?
09:29
<KBme>
Appiah: speed is uncomparable
09:29
<alkisg>
gnujach: did it work?
09:29
<KBme>
you get native speed with lxc
09:29
<Appiah>
what speedy things do you need to run?
09:30
<KBme>
Appiah: i usually test stuff first on a virtual machine on my workstation, then deploy
09:30
<Appiah>
I can tell the diff between virtualbox and qemu-kvm
09:30
<KBme>
so i like to have fast speed, to get over the virtual stuff and implement
09:30
<Appiah>
but you think there's a huge diff between qemu-kvm and lxc?
09:30
<alkisg>
Appiah: which one feels faster? vbox or qemu-kvm?
09:30
<KBme>
oh yeah
09:30
<gnujach>
alkisg: follows the same error: (process: 200) GLib-Warning: ** getpwidr() falied sue to unknow user id(0)
09:30
<KBme>
Appiah: lxc is blazing fast, as i said, native speed
09:30
<Appiah>
qemu-kvm is faster alkisg
09:30
<alkisg>
gnujach: ignore that it's unrelated
09:31
<Appiah>
(to the tests i've done)
09:31
<alkisg>
gnujach: which distro/version are you using?
09:31
<gnujach>
alkisg: not allow work
09:31
<alkisg>
Yes, but that's not your problem, another thing is the problem
09:32
<gnujach>
alksig: ubuntu 10.04 ltsp 5.0
09:32
<KBme>
Appiah: with lxc i can get a minimal debian up in 1 minute and then install everything i need in 10 minutes, it's really nice
09:32
and i've been over all sorts of virt.: openvz, linux vserver, xen, kvm
09:32
<Appiah>
compared to debbootstrap?
09:32
<gnujach>
alkisg: other client work well
09:32
<KBme>
this is by far the simplest and fastest
09:33
Appiah: it uses a cached debootstrapped system
09:33
<mnemoc>
alkisg: I suppose I have to quit from use the one-button-magic and set it up manually in the same way you do
09:33
<gnujach>
alkisg: my terminal in mode shell work well
09:33
<alkisg>
gnujach: intel 855 cards don't work good with 10.04. Either try 10.10, or use the workarounds defined in: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/X/Bugs/Lucidi8xxFreezes
09:34
mnemoc: I'm using magic too, but with a single nic in proxydhcp mode
09:34
Not 2 nic setup
09:34
https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/ProxyDHCP
09:36
<gnujach>
alksig appiah, very very thank i go to download 10.10
09:36
<mnemoc>
alkisg: oh, thanks for the pointer :)
09:38
<alkisg>
gnujach: you can also build a 10.10 chroot on your existing 10.04 server
09:38
bb all
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09:39
<KBme>
Appiah: one thing, tho, i don't think you can do an nfs server in an lxc container since there is no real kernel running
09:39
<gnujach>
alkisg: some tutorial for this?
09:39
<KBme>
not sure
09:40
<Appiah>
KBme hmm
09:40
<KBme>
the userspace daemons shouldn't have a problem but since nfs is in-kernel, i'm not sure how that works out
09:42
<Appiah>
and that's the thing, I dont feel limited when I run stuff in qemu-kvm
09:42
and the speed is not slow
09:43
but I should get to testing lxc sometime
09:43
<KBme>
well, it is quite slow honestly compared to native, but yeah, it's different
09:45
<Appiah>
not slow as in , not slow enough to get me to rage
09:45
:D
09:47
<KBme>
heh, yeah, kvm is good that way
09:47
man i remember the usermode-linux days
09:47
gaaaaaaah
09:53
<mnemoc>
uml is not that old...
09:54
<Roasted__>
What was the command to remove DHCP services from the LTSP server?
09:54
remove dhcp3-server + install standalone or something
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12:13
<jonathas___>
can anyone help me?
12:14
<KBme>
mnemoc: no but it was very slow
12:15
<mnemoc>
:)
12:15
<jonathas___>
im having problem with my rtl8110sc network card.. returnig kernel panic at the boot
12:16
anyone knows what parameter i have to pass in "NIC=" option ???
12:22
?
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14:55Nick change: evil_root -> zz_evil_root
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16:25
<dserban>
anyone remember where ldm triggers scripts
16:25
?
16:25
I wrote a script to log logins on all clients... I need to find out where it is so I can edit it... he
16:25
heh :)
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16:53
<MikeF1>
Anyone having issues with online Debian or Ubuntu installs recently? The ltsp-build-client script can't download some packages and doesn't seem to have a documented restart option. Plan B is to install from the ubuntu alternate CD ...
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17:02
<msignor>
mikef1
17:02
i am
17:02
let me clarify -- i cant get it to fully boot and mount nfs on debian as of yet
17:07
<highvoltage>
msignor: what do you have in /etc/exports ?
17:08
msignor: did you configure a dhcp server or check /etc/dhcp/dhcpd.conf?
17:09* highvoltage is budding in and asking questions without reading backlog, fwiw
17:15
<msignor>
highvoltage: I am exporting /opt/ltsp as well as /home
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19:48
<msignor>
hello - on a scratch install of debian.. all I need is ltsp-server and I should be good to go, right?
19:49
alreayd have the dhcp, pxe, etc, etc.
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22:58
<cyberorg>
alkisg, hi, got few problems on opensuse 11.4, may be you can help :) icons of usb sticks do not show up on desktop where do i look?
22:58
stick is mounted in /media/username/ and accessible
22:58
<alkisg>
cyberorg: and if you put them on the server they do?
22:58
(i.e. are the gnome settings for that ok?)
22:59
<cyberorg>
yup, shows up fine on the server
23:01
<alkisg>
I heard that happen on recent ubuntu versions too - but I don't use localdevs (nor localapps) so I haven't seen it with my own eyes
23:02
<cyberorg>
second issue is all gtk apps icons have solid boxes around them
23:02
<alkisg>
In the menus?
23:03
<cyberorg>
yeah everywhere, it happens on any apps launched via ssh -X (whole of ltsp)
23:03
<alkisg>
OK that one I've never heard of. Screenshot?
23:03
Does it also happen with LDM_DIRECTX=True?
23:04
<cyberorg>
yup
23:04
<alkisg>
So e.g. `ssh -X localhost gedit` gives you boxes around the icons on the toolbar?
23:05
<cyberorg>
lhttps://bugzilla.novell.com/attachment.cgi?id=419421
23:05
ssh -X localhost looks normal
23:05
<alkisg>
Ah alpha blending issue
23:05
Do you have some proprietary driver on the server?
23:06
E.g. nvidia or ati?
23:06
<cyberorg>
nopes, all intel
23:07
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=679730
23:07
<alkisg>
Effects (e.g. compiz) on or off?
23:07
<cyberorg>
off
23:08
it does not make any difference on or off
23:09
i am sure everyone moving to new gnome is going to run into this
23:09
are there any ubuntu patches to gnome to solve this?
23:10
<alkisg>
I haven't seen that in natty - nor anywhere...
23:11
And it doesn't make much sense why it would fail over ssh on *some* cases (e.g. the title bars are ok)
23:11
Someone that knows well gtk internals is needed for this...
23:12
<cyberorg>
yeah, got vuntz to look into it, was hoping you guys already solved it :)
23:14
let me know if you find anything about the missing usb stick icons on the desktop too
23:14
<alkisg>
Sure
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00:00--- Wed Mar 16 2011