IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 21 September 2012   (all times are UTC)

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12:37
<alkisg>
stgraber: after the /tmp/net-* => /run/net-* changes, the newer LTSP versions don't work on Precise
12:38
I'll put some compatibility code there in order to work for both cases, ok?
12:40
<muppis>
About the jetpipe problem what our customer had. Indeed those problem machines are only 512 ram and there is one (which I've forgot) client with 2G of ram where Jetpipe works flawless. Customers contact promised to look up if could add ram those problem machines.
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12:43
<alkisg>
"only" 512? so, what should those with 128 say? :-/
12:43
<muppis>
:D
12:44
<alkisg>
muppis: so you saw with `top` that they only had a few ram left?
12:44
And jetpipe needed hundreds of mb ram?
12:44
Or you have a local browser too?
12:45
<muppis>
Yes, there's a local browser.
12:45
<alkisg>
Do you have any swap, nbd or local?
12:45
<muppis>
Nope, that could help as well.
12:45
<alkisg>
Then it sounds like an OOM condition
12:45
Where the process with the biggest score gets killed
12:46* alkisg uses 512 mb swap always
12:47
<muppis>
Hmm.. Sounds like a plan.
12:47
Add a local swap.
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13:13
<stgraber>
alkisg: sure
13:13
<alkisg>
Cool
13:13
(there's yet another thing breaking precise but I haven't pinpointed it yet)
13:14
stgraber: did you try booting ltsp after your changes? Does it work in quantal?
13:15
<stgraber>
alkisg: yeah, it works in quantal and wouldn't boot without the change
13:16
<alkisg>
Nice, so there's another incompatibility somewhere... (I tried reverting run => tmp but precise still wouldn't boot)
13:16
<stgraber>
I checked Debian at the time and they had the same change, so I didn't bother putting an extra check upstream
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13:18
<alkisg>
stgraber: grep tmp/net /usr/share/initramfs-tools/scripts/functions
13:18
configure_networking in quantal still uses /tmp?
13:20
Ah no sorry wrong VM
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15:43
<mealstrom>
have a nice weekend :D
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18:13* vagrantc is struggling with libvirt to get a networking paradigm that usefully mirrors the LTSP with 2 NICs setup
18:13
<highvoltage>
try the gui, it's easy.
18:14
(virt-manager)
18:14
<vagrantc>
i have been, but it sets up firewall rules that block dhcp from working
18:15
<highvoltage>
strange, I've never had that problem with it before
18:15
<vagrantc>
i've almost got what i need, with a bridge for the LTSP network, and a macvtap on eth0 for the network access ... but for whatever reason i can't get back to the host machine then
18:16
maybe i should try with the NATted network
18:16
i've made a few changes since then...
18:17
there appears to be no obvious way to start the default network when it's inactive
18:18
the default network also grabs DHCP on all interfaces, even though it doesn't listen on all interfaces :(
18:20
the "isolated network" actually sets up a network on tthe host for no apparent reason...
18:23
well, i think i got something workable
18:23
i'm trying to backport ltsp squeeze packages
18:23
well, squeeze backports from wheezy
18:24
all these easy to use interfaces always amaze me at how difficult they are
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20:15
<alkisg>
vagrantc: init-bottom/ltsp:for netconf in /run/net-*.conf ; do...
20:15
Squeeze uses /tmp/ there, right? (as does Precise...) I'm thinking of rewriting that to use `find` instead, and check both locations, does that sound ok?
20:15
And also change udhcpc to create a symlink in /tmp as well...
20:17
<vagrantc>
alkisg: why not for netconf in /run/net-*.conf /tmp/net-*.conf ?
20:17
<alkisg>
vagrantc: if they don't exist, it tries to copy the asterisk then
20:18
<vagrantc>
if -f $netconf ; else
20:18
<alkisg>
Can't use if with *
20:18
Ah ok
20:18
Inside the if, sure
20:18
*the for
20:18
Well, isn't find easier?
20:19
It's busybox, already loaded
20:19
<vagrantc>
i'd prefer not using find...
20:19
<alkisg>
OK, np
20:19
And, for udhcpc, symlink or create a duplicate file/
20:19
?
20:19
<vagrantc>
dunno why, it just seems easier
20:20
<alkisg>
I could also grep for tmp/net- the initramfs-tools "functions" script and check which one to use, but that sounds really lame :D
20:20
<vagrantc>
i wouldn't :)
20:21
<alkisg>
if grep -q tmp/net /usr/share/initramfs-tools/scripts/functions; then echo tmp; else echo run; fi
20:21
symlink?
20:22
<vagrantc>
what are you trying to do?
20:22
check what initramfs-tools uses?
20:22
<alkisg>
udhcp creates a net-eth0.conf file
20:22
Previously that would go in /tmp
20:22
Now it goes in /run
20:22
<vagrantc>
that could really be prone to false positives
20:23
<alkisg>
So we either need to detect the correct dir based on the initramfs-tools version, or create both files (or symlink)
20:23
<vagrantc>
i swear i added code to handle this in both places somewhere.
20:23
<alkisg>
The code that reads that file is configure_networking inside initramfs-tools "functions" script
20:23
I think I read that code too
20:23
I grep'ed now and I couldn't find it...
20:24
(my problem now is that precise doesn't boot with ltsp-trunk)
20:24
<vagrantc>
squeeze backport isn't going so well with the dependency on newer nbd-client :(
20:24
<alkisg>
Ouch
20:24
<vagrantc>
at the time we removed support for the old stuff, a backport was fairly easy, but it's gotten more difficult now
20:24
backport of nbd, that is
20:25
<alkisg>
One could make a poor-man's backport by installing an nbd-client wrapper, that seds '-N xxx' ==> port 2000
20:25
Sure, not flexible...
20:26* alkisg starts debugging ltsp-trunk on precise...
20:27* vagrantc is amazed that precise is already so out of date :)
20:29
<alkisg>
Ah, I installed 5 debian+lxde kiosk-style PCs today in the schools offices I work now
20:29
30 mins installing the first, and 5' for each clone
20:29
Sweeet :)
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20:30
<vagrantc>
alkisg: disked?
20:30
<alkisg>
Yeah, we didn't have a server handy there
20:30
<vagrantc>
how do you clone?
20:31
<alkisg>
So we found some ancient p3 boxes with 256 ram, work fine now
20:31
I installed the original one in kvx
20:31
kvm
20:31
<vagrantc>
squeeze or wheezy?
20:31
<alkisg>
Wheezy
20:31
(Preferred debian for the 486 kernel)
20:31
Then I put the disks in a usb box and cat lxde.raw > /dev/sdb
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20:31
<alkisg>
Then gparted /dev/sdb, resize to fill disk, done
20:31
<vagrantc>
wow.
20:32
no filesystem corruption with cat?
20:32
<alkisg>
No, not at all, it's even faster that dd with the default block size of 512 kb
20:32
*than
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20:33* vagrantc wonders if rsync would work
20:33
<alkisg>
For the block device? Or for the contents?
20:33* muppis just drinks beer. :)
20:34
<alkisg>
lxde.raw was 4 Gb, while the target disks were varying, so I don't think rsync would work with block devices
20:34
<vagrantc>
alkisg: to replace lxde.raw > /dev/sdb
20:34
ah.
20:34
and be a lot of wasted comparisons
20:35
<alkisg>
Right
20:35
Resizing the result with gparted only took 30 seconds, and saved me from all the uuid trouble
20:35
<vagrantc>
i've mostly used partimage for disk imaging
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20:36
<alkisg>
Does it handle full disks well? MBRs, uuids etc?
20:36
<vagrantc>
dunno, have just used it on partitions
20:36
uuid trouble?
20:37
<alkisg>
If you create new partitions and clone old ones, you need to use tune2fs -U to put back the old UUIDs so that grub/fstab match
20:37
<vagrantc>
i thought the uuids were on the filesystem level, not partition level.. ??
20:37
<alkisg>
And also then grubinstall to MBR... with a script it's ok, but doing it manually even for 5 disks is time consuming
20:38
Ah true, I was thinking of rsync
20:38
<vagrantc>
so you just have identical UUIDs on all your clones?
20:38
<alkisg>
(the contents)
20:38
Right
20:39
<mnevans>
Hello LTSP World. I am still trying to boot a thin client off a Debian/Wheezy server. I wrote to the debian-xorg team, and they said,
20:40* vagrantc waves
20:40
<mnevans>
install the package" firmware-linux-nonfree" (mush-for-brains).
20:40
<vagrantc>
zotac zbox?
20:40
<mnevans>
I did this on the server, and then as chroot, did apt-get update, apt-get dist-upgrade.
20:41
vagrantc, yes, the zotac zboxes.
20:41
But the server is not one of these, it's an intel CPU and nvidia display card.
20:42
<vagrantc>
your server shouldn't matter for the client displays
20:42
<mnevans>
Then I checked that the radeon modules are indeed in the chroot.
20:42
<vagrantc>
although the nvidia non-free stuff can potentially break a lot of things
20:42
<mnevans>
Then rebooted a client; I get a login (none) but can't login with userid and password. Nothing in dmesg except ethernet link down and up messages.
20:42
<vagrantc>
the nvidia stuff is pretty invasive
20:43
mnevans: "login (none)" ?
20:43
mnevans: connected with a crossover cable?
20:43
<mnevans>
vagrantc: well, actually "(none) login:".
20:44
<vagrantc>
mnevans: at a console login?
20:44
mnevans: or a graphical login?
20:44
<mnevans>
I think it should default to a graphical login - I didn't change any boot options. That's what I want ed to ask about actually.
20:45
<vagrantc>
mnevans: please paste the the output of "ltsp-info --verbose" to a pastebot:
20:45
!pastebin
20:45
<ltsp>
pastebin: the LTSP pastebin is at http://ltsp.pastebin.com. Please paste all text longer than a line or two to the pastebin, as it helps to reduce traffic in the channel. Don't forget to paste the URL of the text here.
20:45
<mnevans>
What's the best way to append, for instance, "radeon.modeset=0"? Which is how I got X to start on a test case live wheezy install
20:45
running directly on a zbox.
20:45
Ah, sorry, I run off at the mouth.
20:46
Not a crossover cable, just regular ethernet.
20:47
<vagrantc>
mnevans: it sounds like you're not ending up with a writeable filesystem...
20:48
so that's why X isn't starting
20:49
mnevans: in order to get any more, though, i need the results from: ltsp-info --verbose
20:50
<mnevans>
Roger that. Sorry, I am slow here. http://pastebin.com/C7jfzrSf
20:52
vagrantc: yes, I just rebooted to watch the erorr messages, and it finishes by saying: "read-only filesystem".
20:52
(rebooted the client).
20:54
<vagrantc>
mnevans: so these zotac zboxes are 64-bit?
20:54
<mnevans>
Yessir.
20:54
<vagrantc>
are you booting using NBD or NFS?
20:54
<mnevans>
I believe, NBD.
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20:55
<vagrantc>
let's try to switch you back to NFS
20:56
good thing i completely rewrote the NFS/NBD switching code in time for wheezy ...
20:56
i don't really remember how i even did it...
20:56
<mnevans>
OK... smile... broader smile...
20:57
<vagrantc>
edit /opt/ltsp/amd64/etc/ltsp/update-kernels.conf
20:58
mnevans: set PXELINUX_DEFAULT=menu
20:58
that way we can test either NBD or NFS as needed
20:58
<mnevans>
OK. Got it.
20:58
<vagrantc>
sudo ltsp-chroot /usr/share/ltsp/update-kernels
20:58
sudo ltsp-update-kernels
20:59
then reboot the client, and let's try NFS
21:00
that way we can make changes and they go live immediately... once we've got it figured out we can switch back to NBD if you want.
21:01
<mnevans>
OK. Sorry for the delay. Trying to also log instructions so I can repeat this later... I'm with you.
21:02
<vagrantc>
you could probably have your irc client log the whole chat :)
21:03
mnevans: are your tftp files in /srv/tftp or /var/lib/tftpboot?
21:03
<mnevans>
OK. It logged me in as root in what looks like failsafe mode, into the thin client.
21:03
<vagrantc>
ah, ok.
21:03
<mnevans>
Looks like: when I updated the kernels, it updated /srv/tftp directories.
21:03
<vagrantc>
so it's respecting the SCREEN_*=shell stuff you've set
21:04
<mnevans>
Hmmm.. did you see that in the output of ltsp-info? I guess so!
21:04
<vagrantc>
yup
21:05
<mnevans>
So I should comment that out or delete. I forget how ?(it's that taking notes thing...)
21:05
<vagrantc>
mnevans: does the command "touch /" return an error?
21:05
<mnevans>
As root?
21:05
<vagrantc>
mnevans: so all the changes you made to lts.conf may not be present in your NBD exported image.
21:06
mnevans: on the thin client... which should be as root
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21:08
<vagrantc>
mnevans: and "hostname" returns what?
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21:12
<vagrantc>
doh.
21:12
<mnevans>
Sorry vagrantc, I think I got disconnected for a while there.
21:13
<vagrantc>
mnevans: so, last thing you saw?
21:13
<mnevans>
lts.conf.
21:13
There is no lts.conf where nbd is supposed to look for it.
21:14
I was going to comment out "SCREEN_07=console" and reboot the client.
21:14
As NFS.
21:14
OK?
21:14
<vagrantc>
SCREEN_07=shell?
21:14
<mnevans>
Yes, right, sorry.
21:14
<vagrantc>
with NFS, you can directly edit /opt/ltsp/amd64/etc/lts.conf
21:15
<mnevans>
Yes, that was what I did.
21:15
<vagrantc>
mnevans: try SCREEN_07=ldm SCREEN_02=shell
21:15
on separate lines
21:15
reboot, see what happens
21:15
<mnevans>
rebooting...
21:18
OK, I've got a graphical login, but I think the display is mirrored off to the right, so I can't actually see what's going on.
21:18
Now I know I've seen that before and should know how to fix it...
21:18
<vagrantc>
ctrl-alt-f2
21:18
<mnevans>
to the shell...
21:20
<vagrantc>
so, it seems to be working better with NFS ... you might have some problems with your NBD setup
21:20
mnevans: what does "hostname" return?
21:20
<mnevans>
It gives the name of the client, ltsp37.
21:20
<vagrantc>
ok.
21:21
so that "(none) login:" stuff you were ggetting before showed some problems with your NBD image, i'm guessing
21:21
<mnevans>
Can I rebuild the nbd image?
21:21
<vagrantc>
sudo ltsp-update-image should do it
21:22
<mnevans>
Hmm. Have done that, about an hour ago.
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21:25
<vagrantc>
mnevans: so, to get back to your earlier question setting kernel boot options can be done by....
21:27
editing /opt/ltsp/amd64/etc/ltsp/update-kernels.conf
21:27
mnevans: you probably want to add the nomodeset stuff to CMDLINE_LINUX_DEFAULT
21:27
and then ... sudo ltsp-chroot /usr/share/ltsp/update-kernels ; sudo ltsp-update-kernels
21:31
<mnevans>
vagrant: thank you. I just added the stanza to lts.conf that fixes the display mirroring.
21:31
Now made the change to lts.conf and updated the kernels as instructed (and made a note).
21:32
Should I try without radeon.modeset=0, as theoretically the nonfree radeon drivers are there?
21:33
<vagrantc>
try whatever you want until it works :)
21:33
i don't actually have a broad experience with hardware to know
21:33
<mnevans>
Although, hell, display looks fine without the nonfree stuff.
21:34
What I really need now is a clear path to do a barebones install of wheezy/ltsp.
21:34
<vagrantc>
i'd go with the non-free stuff if you don't obviously need it
21:34
<mnevans>
I will then try to replicate it on my test box.
21:34
Then implement on my server.
21:34
<vagrantc>
as said earlier, the nvidia stuff is invasive and will break non-nvidia hardware
21:35
<mnevans>
But so many twists and turns to get here. Is there an updated wheezy/ltsp howto that would have saved you this trouble :-)
21:35
Fortunately server has only onboard video, no insidious nvidious.
21:35
<vagrantc>
i don't know how you got where you got to ...
21:35
<mnevans>
(real server that is).
21:36
So: vanilla install of wheezy;
21:36
then ltsp-standalone;
21:36
then configure dhcp
21:36
<vagrantc>
ltsp-config provides some features to simplify configuring some things
21:37
<mnevans>
then setup update-kernels.conf to use boot menu and boot by nfs not nbd.
21:37
Then fix the display mirroring etc.
21:37
<vagrantc>
by default it should use NFS ...
21:37
<mnevans>
That sound complete?
21:37
Oh really? I thought it used nbd by default. I wasn't trying to be fancy or anything.
21:38
Wonder how I got there.
21:40
<vagrantc>
debian uses NFS by default
21:40
<mnevans>
Is the process same as in the howto for debian stable? Or has it changed?
21:40
<vagrantc>
maybe you weren't actually using NBD ...
21:40
<mnevans>
(The install/config ltsp process I mean).
21:40
<vagrantc>
same process
21:40
<mnevans>
OK, then I will try the clean install using those howtos.
21:41* vagrantc should double-check
21:41
<vagrantc>
hasn't changed since lenny, reallly
21:42
there are some new features that i should document thought
21:43
<mnevans>
Is there anything an ignoramus like me can do to help, to say thanks to you and this community?
21:43
Document the complete install process?
21:43
<vagrantc>
wow, some weird advice has creeped into that page :(
21:44
configuring /etc/exports should no longer be necessary
21:44
mnevans: the basics are still the same ... ltsp-build-client ...
21:45
<mnevans>
Yes, I don;t think there is dhcp3 anymore, rather isc-dhcp-server
21:46
looking at: http://wiki.debian.org/LTSP/Howto, right?
21:46
<vagrantc>
yeah.
21:46
lenny is oldstable
21:47
i should update it one of these days...
21:48
<mnevans>
That would be a great thing for me. I try hard, but my notes suck and are full of holes.
21:49
<vagrantc>
mostly, it would be removing a lot of cruft from the docs ...
21:50
ltsp-build-client ; ltsp-config isc-dhcp-server|dnsmasq
21:50
should pretty much be all yyou need to do
21:51
isc-dhcp-server is the default, though dnsmasq is kind of a nice alternative for some uses
21:52
you might have to tweak the configured files and such...
21:53
<mnevans>
There's also starting tftp-hpa service, and I didn;t know how to update the chroot kernels, by ltsp-chroot; apt-get update; apt-get dit-upgrade; exit; ltsp-update-kernels; ltsp-update-image
21:53
Also editing /opt/ltsp./amd64/etc/ltsp/update-kernels.conf.
21:54
And updating kernel and image.
21:57
<vagrantc>
starting tftp-hpa should happen by default.
21:58
there's some misleading information there about the current status of things.
21:58
but general ltsp maintenance really belongs in ltsp-docs
22:00
<mnevans>
Yes, that'd be great.
22:01
I think I've monopolized your time anbd this chat enough for one day, don't you think?
22:02
I sure do appreciate all the help I get here. It helps me get stuck in increasingly worse linux spots... :)
22:02
Seriously many of you have saved my bacon (and productivity) repeatedly.
22:02
Many thanks.
22:06
I'd better get home.
22:06
Thanks again.
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22:06
<vagrantc>
mnevans: glad to be helpful!
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