IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 18 February 2015   (all times are UTC)

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09:03
<muppis>
Any succefull progress about Raspberry Pi as client?
09:03* alkisg asked for an rpi-2 based lab :)
09:03
<alkisg>
rpi-1 isn't good enough...
09:04
<muppis>
But works?
09:04
Like in demo purpose.
09:05
<alkisg>
Sure, many people have done it, it's just very low-powered
09:05
E.g. you can't even browse the web with 256/512 ram and an arm v6 processor...
09:07
<muppis>
That's good for start. Reason to get rpi-2 for demo. :D
09:08
<alkisg>
rpi-2 sounds good as a fat client
09:11
<muppis>
Boss agreed about idea rpi-2 as client and started ordering one already. :D
09:14
http://www.hardkernel.com/main/main.php -- Also ordered C1 from here.
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12:11
<jtornero>
good morning. I wonder if someone knows if is it possible to use an usb-to serial converter plugged into a thinclient. Or just point out for the correct terms for googling it (no luck so far). Thanks
12:33work_alkisg is now known as alkisg
12:33
<alkisg>
jtornero: first step, make it work in a non-ltsp environment
12:34
second step, make it work as a localapp
12:34
!localxterm
12:34
<ltsp`>
localxterm: Any applications that you launch on a thin client actually runs on the server, not on the client itself. If you want to open a program on the client locally, you can type 'ltsp-localapps <program>' in a run dialog or in a terminal. For example, 'ltsp-localapps xterm' to open a terminal running on the client.
12:34
<alkisg>
Then ask here again :)
12:44alkisg is now known as work_alkisg
12:45
<jtornero>
alkisg: Well, what I want is to use that thin-client-usb port (a rpi) to plug the usb device (in this case a usb-to-serial converter) So after reading a while, I guess I should install in chroot usb-managing pakcges and stuff?
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13:01
<vsuojanen>
Hi, I had problems with login from both 64 and 32 bit fatclients to 12.04 ltsp-server. I workaround the problem by one lts.conf setting
13:02
LDM_XSESSION="gnome-session --session=ubuntu-2d"
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13:03
<vsuojanen>
I don't get it because i had the same xsession files in server and chroot /usr/share/xsessions/
13:04
server .dmrc was Session=ubuntu-2d
13:06
should I set the fatclient users in chroot or something else ?
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13:19
<guest_____>
Hello, are there any documentation on how ltsp internally work and what files influences it? I don't mean general idea of net booting as described on wiki in Concepts. I am specifically interested in where is the configration file for mounting discs, I'd like to get rid of overlayfs and keep it ro only. Thanks!
13:25
<Hyperbyte>
guest_____, what do you want to do with the clients?
13:25
Why do you want it read-only?
13:35
<guest_____>
Hyperbyte: for enhanced kiosk mode
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13:39
<guest_____>
I'd mount only /var and copied the files which needs write to tmpfs for rw with overlayfs, but I'd like to keep the rest as ro
13:40
<alkisg_web>
guest_____: while booting, you also need write access to /etc and elsewhere. Why not let it boot first, and then remount it ro?
13:41
Check /usr/share/ltsp/init-ltsp.d for more
13:41
<guest_____>
alkisg_web: will do, thanks!
13:41
<alkisg_web>
guest_____: of course you do realize that for someone to write to /etc, he'd need root access,
13:41
and if he has root access, then he can just do an overlay himself...
13:42
I.e. what you're thinking doesn't really offer security, if that's why you want it...
13:44
vsuojanen: 12.04 had some bugs wrt sessions, are you using the greek schools ppa that has a newer ltsp version for 12.04?
13:45
<guest_____>
I am thinking there can always be bug in some tool which could potentially offer acces to non-root user, keeping it as ro might lower the chance. Anyway, keeping it as ro is the last step only if all other security feature fails
13:46
<alkisg_web>
It's possible that you'll introduce crashes etc with that
13:46
<guest_____>
preventing user to use sudo or su should be enough, but who knows..
13:50
<alkisg_web>
Do run the browser as a user though, not as root...
13:53
<guest_____>
browser is ran as temporary user while preventing from escaping out of it (including dialogs) but I am just trying to be really cautious.
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13:57
<championofcyrodi>
i think the SSH_HASH = true fix only works if the shadow file on the server has the username/pw information to authenticate. using ldap/sssd, that is not the case.
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14:15
<vsuojanen>
alkisg_web: I use ltsp5.3.7 for 12.04
14:15
<alkisg_web>
vsuojanen: there could be some bugs there. If you found a workaround, leave it at that...
14:16
championofcyrodi: LDM_PASSWORD_HASH hashes the password that ldm got from the user, so it doesn't contact the server nor does it read /etc/passwd
14:16
<vsuojanen>
i tested running LTSP_FATCLIENT=False works but when sets LTSP_FATCLIENT=True it didn't
14:17
<championofcyrodi>
alkisg_web, sounds good. I'll give it a test run w/ sssd and let you know.
14:17
<vsuojanen>
there was some fix by vagrantc few months ago https://bugs.launchpad.net/ltsp/+bug/1272889
14:17
<alkisg_web>
vsuojanen: what's the output of `ls /opt/ltsp/i386/usr/share/xsessions` ?
14:18
<vsuojanen>
ls /opt/ltsp/fati386/usr/share/xsessions/gnome.desktop gnome-shell.desktop ubuntu-2d.desktop ubuntu.desktop
14:18
ls /usr/share/xsessions/gnome.desktop gnome-shell.desktop ubuntu-2d.desktop ubuntu.desktop
14:19
<alkisg_web>
And if you select a session from the ldm preferences menu, does it work then?
14:19
Also, at some point we changed it to "LDM_SESSION=ubuntu-2d", the .desktop name
14:19
<vsuojanen>
.dmrc was ubuntu-2d when i tested and still is in my profile
14:19
<alkisg_web>
I don't know if it's there in 5.3.7
14:20
<vsuojanen>
if i changed session in ldm session it didn't make any change. it restarted
14:20
<alkisg_web>
Maybe you should upgrade then... both server and chroot
14:20
<vsuojanen>
but when i added LDM_SESSION to lts.conf it works
14:20
<alkisg_web>
!greek-schools-ppa
14:20
<ltsp`>
greek-schools-ppa: https://launchpad.net/~ts.sch.gr/+archive/ppa/ supports LTS Ubuntu releases with newer LTSP versions, bug fixes etc
14:20
<alkisg_web>
Ah ok if you found a workaround leave it at that
14:21
<vsuojanen>
is the issue in ldm or in the ldm/rc.d scripts ?
14:22
<alkisg_web>
Mostly in /usr/share/ldm/rc.d/X50-dmrc-processing
14:22
You could try using a newer version of that...
14:22
!ltsp-trunk
14:22
<ltsp`>
ltsp-trunk: The LTSP code is at https://code.launchpad.net/~ltsp-upstream/ltsp/ltsp-trunk
14:22
<alkisg_web>
!ldm-trunk
14:22
<ltsp`>
ldm-trunk: The LTSP Display Manager (LDM) code is at https://code.launchpad.net/~ltsp-upstream/ltsp/ldm-trunk
14:22
<vsuojanen>
by default in ltsp, how do you prefer setting the default desktop between thinclients and fatclients ? from .dmrc or from system
14:22
<alkisg_web>
I let clients decide by themselves if they want to be fat or thin, based on ram,
14:23
...and I have a default LDM_SESSION, which users can override using the ldm preferences menu, which then gets saved into .dmrc
14:25
<vsuojanen>
i think that session type should be mutually agreed before setting chroot desktops so in that sense system default should be fine
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19:10
<ternarybit>
vagrantc: just want to say thanks for all the help. my little project took off like wildfire at some schools I support
19:48
<vagrantc>
ternarybit: nice!
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20:43
<ternarybit>
vagrantc: what's the status of the ltsp-cluster project?
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21:13
<vagrantc>
ternarybit: i think it's a bit dormant
21:13
but i don't really know
21:13
haven't seen much from it recently
21:18
<ternarybit>
that was my impression from a quick perusal
21:19
What about LTSP on armhf / raspberry pi? I saw one of your guides but it looked a bit experimental
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21:30
<vagrantc>
ltsp on armhf is definitely rough around the edges
21:30
i've been meaning to write a post about the status of various boards
21:31
every board i've found has some problem at this point, some of which can be worked around with a custom kernel
21:31
<ternarybit>
hmm
21:32
<vagrantc>
the best supported so far is the wandboard quad, which has working hdmi video, can network boot with u-boot off the SD card, and has working usb.
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21:32
<vagrantc>
cubox-i is similar, although the u-boot support i've worked with doesn't support network booting
21:32
and the wandboard quad has issues with edid detection (apparently a hardware bug)
21:33
beaglebone black could work in theory with a custom kernel that fixes usb support
21:33
sunxi based boards don't have working hdmi video
21:34
<ternarybit>
i had a hard time turning up any good minimal i386 boards, i assume that would make things simpler?
21:34
<vagrantc>
rpi has it's own weird bootloader, no kernel in debian (although raspbian comes close), but kind of works
21:35
yeah, a low-powered x86 board is probably the way to go, unless you want a real tinkering project :)
21:36
arm boards can be made to work, more-or-less, but it requires significant effort, and might be fine if your demands are very basic
21:36
<ternarybit>
so, installing raspbian on the sdcard, installing ltsp-client and building an armhf chroot is not really recommended?
21:36
<vagrantc>
arm support is gradually improving, though
21:36
ternarybit: some people like it that way.
21:36
!raspberrypi
21:36
<ltsp`>
raspberrypi: (#1) LTSP with raspberry pi: http://cascadia.debian.net/trenza/Documentation/raspberrypi-ltsp-howto/, or (#2) To use a similar environment to LTSP on the raspberry pi http://berryterminal.com/, or (#3) https://github.com/gbaman/RaspberryPi-LTSP, or (#4) https://pi-ltsp.net
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21:37
<vagrantc>
#3 and #4 are part of the same thing
21:37
i think the pi-ltsp approach basically just puts the kernel and initrd on the SD card, but everything else is network booted
21:38
i tried the u-boot support on raspberry pi, but it was kind of funky.
21:38
it would boot, but some video resolution was poor, and maybe sound didn't work
21:38
<ternarybit>
hmm. my needs are very basic, I'm just using the webkiosk screenscript to use either iceweasel or chromium
21:39
<vagrantc>
and you have full control over what websites people expect to work?
21:39
<ternarybit>
by no means :) they expect everything to work 100% flawlessly all the time
21:39
<vagrantc>
"just a webbrowser" is effectively "all the webpages on the internet" unless you put some serious limitations on it :)
21:40
i don't know if chromium is available, but iceweasel definitely was last i looked
21:40
<ternarybit>
well, I just wasn't sure if the main limitation is some element of, say, ubuntu or ldm, and running a single kiosk exe would simplify matters at all
21:40
<vagrantc>
my last setup i actually used a rpi with debian armel port, just so i could get reliable security updates (raspbian sometimes lags on big packages like iceweasel)
21:41
it does, some
21:41
<ternarybit>
still, seems like a *lot* of work. at this point I'd rather salvage old mid-2000s desktops from recycling and just use them
21:43
still, I'll probably tinker with pi-ltsp just for kicks
21:48
<vagrantc>
i would recommend against pentium 4 systems ... they draw about 50% more power doing nothing than a core2 based system
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21:55
<ternarybit>
right, all the candidates I have are core2 or better
21:56
berryterminal looks interesting
22:09* vagrantc prefers plain debian or raspbian
22:09
<vagrantc>
but i'm pretty biased :)
22:09
<ternarybit>
so, if I want to tinker, just install raspbian and install ltsp-client?
22:10* vagrantc should just implement berryterminal using LTSP on Debian or Raspbian images on an SD card
22:10
<vagrantc>
yeah, that'd be a start
22:10
you'd have to change the boot arguments to init=/sbin/init-ltsp ... and probably configure a few other things i don't recall off the top of my head
22:14
<ternarybit>
i dunno, it's still pretty complicated. even if i can figure something out, i don't want to have to support a custom solution forever.
22:14* vagrantc nods
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22:14
<ternarybit>
something tells me armhf will eventually get there though
22:14
<vagrantc>
mid-2000s desktops may give some headaches with video card compatibility ...
22:15
yeah, arm boards have made *huge* strides forward in the last 1-2 years
22:15
<ternarybit>
so far all the dells and gateways have worked 100% video/audio out of the box :)
22:15
<vagrantc>
good good
22:16
<ternarybit>
strange that rpi wouldn't support pxe booting. although i guess it is designed more as a hobbyist board, not a thin client
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22:36
<doctari>
pxe would require network firmware to support it
22:37
you could simulate by booting a small os and having it download bigger apps
22:42
<ternarybit>
doctari: I was looking into iPXE, but didn't get very far
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23:58
<vagrantc>
PXE, while not strictly x86 based, pretty much only has x86 implementations
23:59
there are things in the ARM world that *emulate* PXE behavior to some extent (u-boot has PXE emulation support)