IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 23 February 2012   (all times are UTC)

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06:17
<Jon-->
We're running Ubuntu 11.04 using ltsp. Fat client. We have a problem where several gnome tools are not running (gnome-panel, alt-f2, etc). Any idea what might be causing these issues? We are using LTSP-5.
06:18
It seems to work fine on the older hardware we are booting, the faster ones are not. Perhaps it's a race condition on load or something.
06:19
Some background information: Using ltsp to run about 150 clients for a programming competition. Really liking it so far, just can't get to the bottom of this issue.
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06:20
<Jon-->
The other thing it may be is we have intel drivers on the faster machines as they have an intel chipset and Nvidia drivers on the older machines.
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06:41
<alkisg>
Jon--: are you using unity?
06:42
If so, try unity-2d, it's more stable over the network
06:42
!ubuntu-2d
06:42
<ltsp`>
alkisg: ubuntu-2d: To select ubuntu-2d as your default session, put this line in your lts.conf: LDM_SESSION="gnome-session --session=ubuntu-2d"
06:43
<Jon-->
alkisg, Nope, we want to use GNOME2 on the machines. I believe the unity packages are still installed. We never specified not to use Unity, it's just been using it as the default de
06:43
it being gnome2 ^
06:43
<alkisg>
!gnome-classic
06:43
<ltsp`>
alkisg: gnome-classic: To select gnome-classic as your default session, put this line in your lts.conf: LDM_SESSION="gnome-session --session=gnome-classic"
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06:43
<Jon-->
alkisg, I hope to Christ that works. :P
06:43
alkisg, Thank you!
06:44
<alkisg>
Jon--: I think that 11.04 defaulted to unity for 3d acceleration, and falled back to classic when it wasn't found
06:44
Jon--: so, intel clients reported 3d available, and crashed with unity
06:44
<muppis>
Got strange problem yesterday. Not really ltsp related, but happened while building fat client. Didn't find all packages from repositories.
06:44
<alkisg>
Jon--: but, there may be an LTSP problem in Ubuntu 11.04 which will make that LDM_SESSION not work
06:44
Jon--: it was fixed in some later version, don't remember details
06:45
<Jon-->
alkisg, I'll let you know after I fix that. Would this require a ltsp-update-image?
06:46
<alkisg>
Jon--: no, but if it doesn't work, there are other workarounds to force the classic session
06:46
I think some people even tried removing unity then
06:46
Or you could mofify the session files in /usr/share/xsessions, on your server
06:46
*modify
06:49
<Jon-->
alkisg, Setting LDM_SESSION didn't seem to work, same issue. What is the least painless way to go, xsessions?
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06:50
<alkisg>
Jon--: probably, it shouldn't be hard anyway...
06:50
You need to modify the Exec line of unity to match that of the classic session
06:53
<Jon-->
alkisg, Do I want --session=2d-gnome or --session=classic-gnome?
06:54
<alkisg>
Jon--: not sure, try the latter one first
06:54
<Jon-->
I'm assuming 2d-gnome is Unity2d... They don't call gnome.desktop unity even. Naming conventions are poor.
06:54
<alkisg>
They were changed later on, and I don't know the 11.04 names because I only use LTS releases...
06:58
<Jon-->
alkisg, I have to rebuild image correct?
06:58
<alkisg>
Jon--: no
06:58
You changed your server dir, not the chroot, right?
06:58
<Jon-->
I changed the chroot
06:59
<alkisg>
Do the change on your server
06:59
<Jon-->
Should we be changing the server dir instead? I didn't see any xsession folder in there.
06:59
<alkisg>
The chroot sessions aren't used
06:59
Ah sorry fats
06:59
Wait let me read what you're using..
06:59
Yes
06:59
<Jon-->
We're using fat clients yeah :P
06:59
So rebuild?
06:59
<alkisg>
Yes
07:00
<Jon-->
No choice really, got mediocre hardware to run 200 machines simultaneously XD
07:01
I'll let you know if that helped. I have faith, it makes sense that it was failing to boot 3d with intel, and nvidia was not reporting 3d support so it was going straight to gnome-classic
07:01
We picked 11.04 to specifically avoid Unity (11.10 removed gnome2)
07:02
<alkisg>
Jon--: you could use gnome-classic in precise too
07:02
11.10, 12.04, whatever, unity is not the only session available
07:03
You can install gnome-shell and use the gnome-classic session, I think that's what many of my schools will do too
07:03
<Jon-->
Ahh
07:03
I didn't know gnome-shell came with gnome-classic.
07:04
That would have been an option too, and 11.10 probably has better support w/ ltsp
07:04
<alkisg>
The fat plugin and ltsp in general have seen much work for 12.04, after 11.10
07:05
<Jon-->
Well, competition is in 48 hours. A bit late now. :D
07:05
<alkisg>
Hehe
07:05
<Jon-->
I thank all the devs for making a tool that is a hell of a lot easier then pure PXE config.
07:05
Lets two 4th year computer scientists hack together a good image + config in just a couple of days.
07:06* alkisg hopes it'll get even better in the future
07:06
<alkisg>
Now I want to put support for per-client disk diffs
07:06* Jon-- might contribute once he can code his way out of a wet paper bag
07:09
<Jon-->
alkisg, You've been a lot of help, if this works, let me know how I can Paypal you a beer. ;)
07:10
<alkisg>
Hehe no worries. If you really insist, alkisg at gmail. /me is off for a bit of skiing...
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07:20
<Jon-->
If anyone else is active in here, after setting everything in xsession to use classic and rebooting, gnome-session and gnome-panel are still not running on the Intel machines.
07:28
gnome-panel doesn't seem to want to work with intel drivers
07:34
This is very frustrating :(
07:40
<muppis>
I can't tell is it about Intel's drivers or about Gnome because it does same to me with nvidia.
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07:56
<Jon-->
muppis, You have no issue with NVIDIA, or you have the same behaviour as my Intel with NVIDIA?
07:56
What I have is gnome-panel and part of gnome-session not running with Intel hardware, and faster hardware, but running fine with older NVIDIA machines
07:57
<muppis>
Jon--, having same issue with nvidia as you got with Intel.
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07:59
<Jon-->
muppis, 11.04?
08:00
<muppis>
11.10
08:00
<Jon-->
Hmm.
08:00
We're on 11.04 trying to use ubuntu-classic
08:01
<muppis>
I'm plannig complete reinstall after moving house.
08:02
It's my personal LTSP set up.
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08:02
<Jon-->
Can't really do that with a competition :P
08:06
Is there a way we can drop something into a startup for all users? Either on creation with /etc/skel or somewhere ltsp specific? I have a feeling if we can find what's not running, and just run them on startup manually, there won't be any issues.
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08:39
<Hyperbyte>
Jon--, mhm... when gnome-panel doesn't load it could just be one applet that's not working properly... might be worth a look into, if you've got some custom applets
08:39
Other than that, when you log in to a client where panel doesn't load, and you press ctrl+alt+t to get a terminal window, can you then start gnome-panel manually?
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08:56
<blackened>
hi
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09:55
<Jon-->
Hyperbyte, Sorry I was away, are you still there?
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09:57
<Jon-->
Hyperbyte, To answer your question, we don't have any custom panel applications running, as previously mentioned alternative hardware loads gnome-panel fine, and yes you can pop open a term and run it manually. ctrl+alt+f2 still doesn't work, but the panel will open properly
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10:40
<torbjorn>
how can I adjust the keyboard layout of the login screen?
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10:44
<Hyperbyte>
!lts.conf
10:44
<ltsp`>
Hyperbyte: lts.conf: http://manpages.ubuntu.com/lts.conf
10:44
<Hyperbyte>
torbjorn, see that... XKBLAYOUT
10:45
<Jon-->
Hyperbyte, any ideas?
10:45
<torbjorn>
I have an lts.conf in /opt/ltsp/i386 and in /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386, do I alter both?
10:49
<Hyperbyte>
Jon--, no ideas. It could be a race condition (panel starting too early), but I'm not experienced enough with Gnome's inner workings.
10:49
Try alkisg though, he's the LTSP oracle.
10:50
torbjorn, which distro/version?
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10:55
<Hyperbyte>
mhm...
10:55* Hyperbyte kicks ltsp`
10:56
<Hyperbyte>
I hate it when the bot does ` and doesn't go back. :(
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10:56
<Hyperbyte>
There.
10:57
torbjorn, actually, /var/lib/tftpboot is the only one used now I believe.
10:57
<torbjorn>
ok
10:57
<Hyperbyte>
Centos uses it's own slightly modified version of LTSP, K12Linux
10:57
<torbjorn>
yes im using K12Linux
10:58
<Hyperbyte>
Earlier versions of K12Linux used the file in /opt/ when it was still using NFS, but now I believe it's using NBD and also the file in /var/lib/tftpboot/
10:58
I'm not entirely sure anymore though, I switched from Fedora/K12Linux to Ubuntu
10:59
<torbjorn>
another problem of mine is that the client kernel doesnt support my (intended) client NIC, how should I go about rebuilding the kernel?
11:00
I booted with systemrescuecd and it loaded the nic ok, could I base the client on something like that? or does the thinclient kernel have to match the kernel on the server?
11:00
im not quite sure how the different components play together in the ltsp setup
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11:03
<Hyperbyte>
torbjorn, eh, you definitely don't have to rebuild your kernel with RedHat based os's.
11:03
You just need to find a module that's compatible with a) your kernel and b) your nic
11:03
Often there are RPM's for these
11:04
Or maybe you just need to install additional drivers from some yum repository (not sure about Centos, Fedora includes all possible network drivers by default I think)
11:05
Worst case scenario, you'll have to use yum to install kernel headers and compile a module from source.
11:05
Definitely not a kernel rebuild.
11:05
By the way, if you find a compatible RPM, you can install the RPM in the client chroot (and update the image, only if Centos uses NBD)
11:06
If you have to compile from source, do it using a machine that has the same kernel as your LTSP client and copy the compiled module over.
11:07
Don't compile in the client chroot.
11:07
<torbjorn>
the driver is there, tg3, only its buggy
11:07
<Hyperbyte>
Lunch, be back later.
11:07
<torbjorn>
newer kernels probably load it fine (as with 3.x in systemrescuecd)
11:08
im currently running SL6 on the clients, perhaps I could go with F14 and try to build the kernel from a F15 kernel src rpm
11:09
<Jon-->
I need sleep. I'm back in 6 hrs.
11:10
If anyone has any suggestions for above issue ^ /msg me.
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11:19
<Q-FUNK>
stgraber: is there any particular reason why ltsp-server-standalone Recommends pulseaudio-esound-compat ?
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13:10* [GuS] Morning
13:11
<[GuS]>
Can someone help me to follow the steps to make a scanner work via saned/net in LTSP (Gentoo)? i've installed sane in server and ltsp chroot. Configured the think clien ip in net.conf but still does not find the scaner...
13:13
Was working in older ltsp5... since i've installed new one does not work anymore...
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13:37
<knipwim>
[GuS]: what's the new one you installed?
13:37
and also, it might not be the ltsp version, but a newer stage3 file
13:38
there could be other use flag settings and other different portage settings
13:38
<[GuS]>
knipwim: same as the other day, i didnt upgraded
13:38
knipwim: well, now i've added scanner USE in chroot and see if works...
13:38
is the only diff i had in older ltsp5
13:39
<mgariepy>
good morning everyone
13:40
<[GuS]>
mgariepy: morning
13:41
<knipwim>
[GuS]: i've never hooked up a scanner on ltsp, but google "ltsp scanner" shows some relevant material
13:42
for gentoo, the scanner USE flag is important
13:42
<[GuS]>
knipwim: yes, i know... i've searched a lot and the way it was before, was working
13:42
ok
13:43
I'm just doing a emerge --newuse now
13:43
<knipwim>
you can also add the USE flag to the quickstart/kicktoo profile for when installing a new chroot
13:44
(in case of ltsp-server < 5.3)
13:44
<[GuS]>
knipwim: yep, thanks :)
13:44
knipwim: later i will install a new chroot just for test 5.3
13:44
<knipwim>
behaviour for 5.3+ is somewhat differemt
13:44
<[GuS]>
(recently yesterday i back to my work)
13:44
knipwim: yes.. i saw... seems more like others LTSP in the others well supported distros
13:45
<knipwim>
ehmm, not quite yet
13:45
but that has more to do with the client
13:45
<[GuS]>
ok
13:46
<knipwim>
i still have to upgrade to 5.3
13:46
installing a 5.3 client will be fundamentally different from installing a 5.2 one
13:46
<[GuS]>
Also i saw that scanner use was added auto. in olders ltsp5. Could be? i am looking at other server and i saw that
13:46
knipwim: oks
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13:47
<knipwim>
hmm, perhaps the scanner use flag was on by default in the stage3 profile
13:48
for 5.3, the new ltsp profile will be used from your ltsp overlay dir (like /var/lib/layman/ltsp/profiles)
13:48
but i'll make an extensive bug report or wiki paragraph later
13:50
<[GuS]>
Oks
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13:54
<[GuS]>
brb
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15:04
<cliebow>
anyone know how i'd scp from a firewall machine with no /usr/bin/ssh?
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15:09
<sep>
are there other ssh/scp clients installed ? like dropbear or similar ?
15:09
or you have to transfere files using something else
15:10
like rcp or tftp/ftp or rsync or nc or x/z/y-modem
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15:11
<cliebow>
being a firewall it is locked down..but funny thing is winscp works just fine transferring
15:11
<sep>
winscp fallback to ftp
15:11
<cliebow>
Id just like to automate backyp..
15:11
oh perhaps..
15:12* cliebow cliebow wanders around looking for a winblows machine
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15:34
<cliebow>
dude..i found a hack that works
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16:05
<torbjorn>
Im looking at the initrd in the tftpdir, and can't figure out how the ltsp client-to-server connection is initiated
16:05
i didnt find it in the init file at least
16:06
<knipwim>
what "ltsp client-to-server connection" are you refering to?
16:06
<torbjorn>
the thin client, after pxe boot, connecting to the ltsp server
16:07
<knipwim>
it's initiated when you log in
16:07
<torbjorn>
ok. how does it know what server to connect to?
16:08
<knipwim>
by default i think the server from which it gets the chroot
16:09
but you can set all kinds of server ip's in the lts.conf
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16:12
<torbjorn>
i see, this would be in the /opt/ltsp/i386 directory? (for example)
16:13
im trying to update the kernel of the thinclient
16:13
<cliebow>
you have an initrd...we used to call it
16:18
<torbjorn>
hm.. how does the client know which nfs dir to mount? in my case /opt/ltsp/i386 ?
16:19
it simply says root="dhcp" in my tftpboot conf file i think
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16:24
<knipwim>
torbjorn: are you sure?
16:24
either the tftpserver provides the nfsroot or the dhcp server
16:26
<stgraber>
alkisg: hey there
16:26
<torbjorn>
dhcp server provides a filename parameter, a pxelinux.0 file. the default file on the tftp server: http://fpaste.org/yaKt/
16:26
<alkisg>
Hi stgraber
16:26
<stgraber>
alkisg: I merged all of your changes and rebased on 5.3.1
16:26
alkisg: we're entering beta freeze today at 21:00 UTC and I'd like to have LTSP uploaded a bit before that
16:26
<alkisg>
stgraber: yey! Want to do a small change for nbd-server config, or is it mostly ok?
16:27
Ah
16:27
<stgraber>
alkisg: do you think we need to grab some other changes from the trunk and release 5.3.2 or we don't need these few commits?
16:27
<torbjorn>
ah wait i see it elsewhere in dhcpd.conf
16:27
<stgraber>
alkisg: I'm not sure what's the status of nbd-server to be honnest, is it working at the moment or just breaking completely because of a missing config file?
16:27
<alkisg>
stgraber: we surely need r2097
16:28
(fixes reboot/shutdown)
16:28
<stgraber>
hmm, ok, I guess I'll tag 5.3.2 then once we've figured what we want to do for nbd-server config
16:28
<alkisg>
I'm not sure either, I haven't done any installations the past days
16:28
<stgraber>
ok, let me run an Ubuntu alternate install quickly then to see what happens
16:29
<alkisg>
OK, I'll statically (without an installation) check the nbd-server config too
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16:30
<stgraber>
alkisg: I have all of your changes merged in ubuntu:ltsp + a few others if you want to have a look
16:30
<alkisg>
stgraber: sure, URL?
16:30
Ah
16:30
OK, /me checks
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16:40
<alkisg>
stgraber: seems fine, but do at least put r2097 too
16:40
<stgraber>
alkisg: yeah, I'll tag 5.3.2 before upload
16:41
<alkisg>
stgraber: do we have a couple of hours for a few more bug fixes?
16:41
<stgraber>
yep, more or less 4 hours
16:42
<alkisg>
Cool, please allow me, I just came home but I do have the evening free :)
16:42
<xsl>
sorry to interrupt your talk guys, but one quick question. the initrd of the chroot has a small kernel, right? not all modules are present and ready to load. how do i make a chroot that is "universal" .. like .. detects toshiba webcams on LTSP clients
16:43
<alkisg>
xsl: those are not related to the initramfs
16:43
They're loaded later on
16:43
Jon--: did you solve your problem? Later I also thought it might be caused by compiz
16:43
!compiz
16:43
<ltsp>
alkisg: compiz: the default window manager in gnome is gnome-wm, which automatically chooses compiz if it thinks that the card supports it. Compiz is causing login problems to some clients (LP #673072). To disable it, see !disable_compiz. To restore it, see !restore_compiz
16:44
<xsl>
alkisg: ok but are they loaded?
16:45
<alkisg>
I don't think LTSP does anything to prevent them from being loaded
16:45
<xsl>
because a default install on a toshiba laptop detects the webcam, and LTSP chroot didnt
16:45
<alkisg>
How did you check?
16:45
Webcams are not "forwarded" to the ltsp client session which runs on the server
16:45
<xsl>
i booted a livecd of ubuntu and webcam was there to be used with skype,
16:46
<alkisg>
You need localapps to see them
16:46
<xsl>
i booted the laptop with ltsp .. (skype as localapp) and didnt see the webcam
16:46
<alkisg>
Is it a usb camera?
16:46
<xsl>
builtin
16:47
those tiny things on the laptop lid
16:47
<alkisg>
Those can either be pci or usb
16:47
So, you either need lspci or lsusb to see which module they use
16:48
And check if that module is available while the client is booted from ltsp or not
16:49
<xsl>
maybe i'm confused due to this https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/AddingModules
16:49
<alkisg>
That's not related to your problem
16:49
<xsl>
i assumed the chroot did not had all the modules of a normal ubuntu install
16:49
<alkisg>
chroot != initramfs
16:50
You may be missing a firmware package, but it's unrelated to the initramfs
16:50
<xsl>
initramfs is just the "pre-boot" and this is related to it?
16:50
<alkisg>
initramfs is the preboot phase and needs to contain the network modules mostly
16:51
<xsl>
ohhh i understand, its like... im missing some lib from the chroot userland that is present on a normal ubuntu install but not on the chroot ?
16:51
s/lib/driver/
16:51
<alkisg>
Maybe. Chroots don't have the "recommented" packages installed by default
16:51
So it might e.g. be missing the package "linux-firmware"
16:52
You need to check the module with lspci or lsusb, with a live cd
16:52
Or in the server
16:53
<xsl>
the thing is that i was trying to make an ltsp chroot image that could be "universal" to a wide range of computers and laptops
16:53
so any guy that came to my company could use all hardware of its laptop on ltsp
16:53
mostly webcams
16:54
<alkisg>
Make a fat chroot, or install all those firmware packages in the thin chroot
16:54
(fat chroots install recommented packages by default, so they're like live cds)
16:57
<knipwim>
[GuS]: if you tryout ltsp-server-5.3, you should sync the overlay first, no re-install needed
16:57
just updated the profile
16:57
<[GuS]>
knipwim: ok
16:57
<xsl>
alkisg:
16:57
<[GuS]>
I always do that first :)
16:57
<xsl>
chroot /opt/ltsp/i386 dpkg --list|grep firmware
16:57
ii linux-firmware 1.34.7 Firmware for Linux kernel drivers
16:57
oops
16:58
sorry i was trying to post in 1 line
16:58
<alkisg>
xsl: don't start by guessing packages, start with lspci or lsusb
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16:58
<xsl>
your correct
16:59
ty once again for your help, im going to check that up
17:04
<stgraber>
alkisg: ltsp doesn't boot post-install
17:05
<alkisg>
stgraber: ouch, with the alternate? Why, nbd-server config?
17:05
<stgraber>
right, with alternate
17:05
nope, tftp is broken somehow
17:07
<alkisg>
Ah... I really think we should drop tftpd-hpa and use dnsmasq as the default tftp server, and optionally use it for dhcp/proxydhcp/dns too
17:07
But that can wait for a later version
17:11
<stgraber>
well, tftpd is running, it just doesn't serve any file ...
17:11
ok, found the issue and it's a known bug
17:12
that got a lot more visible since we turned compression back on ...
17:12
basically if the install takes too long, everything breaks
17:16
alkisg: /etc/nbd-server/config is there
17:16
alkisg: once tftpd was fixed, everything just worke
17:16
<alkisg>
stgraber: is compression related to the tftp bug?
17:16
<stgraber>
yes
17:17
it's making the install slower, it makes d-i timeout and kill the ltsp installer before the compression is done
17:17
so all the paths use i386.tmp instead of i386
17:17
<alkisg>
Meh
17:17
So on slow machines it would die anyway?
17:17
<stgraber>
it was on my todolist for today anyway, so I'll fix it
17:17
<alkisg>
OK
17:18
<stgraber>
I'm not sure what creates /etc/nbd-server/config but something does and it works ;)
17:18
<alkisg>
I'm just doing some renames in init-ltsp.d and ltsp_config.d because sometimes SERVER doesn't get the correct value
17:18
ltsp-update-image, probably
17:18
But I thought it'd be better if we copied the template
17:18
stgraber: does it contain "nbd" as the nbd-server user, or "nobody"?
17:19
<stgraber>
nobody
17:19
<alkisg>
Hmmm
17:19
<stgraber>
I'll change the package to copy /usr/share/nbd-server/nbd-server.conf.tmpl anyway
17:19
<alkisg>
http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ltsp-upstream/ltsp/ltsp-trunk/revision/2089
17:19
Ah, ok then
17:21
<stgraber>
ok, pushed
17:21
now I just need to fix the installer and release 5.3.2
17:25
<alkisg>
stgraber: please wait for my SERVER-related push
17:25
In 10-15 minutes...
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17:29
<stgraber>
alkisg: sure
17:31
<Llama_be>
I want to build a server to network boot clients into rdesktop. Later on, I might want to add a couple of exceptions of devices that should boot into a XBMC (or similar) client. Is LTSP the way I should go?
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17:35
<alkisg>
Llama_be: yeah, it sounds like it suits your purposes
17:37
<Llama_be>
but the rdesktop and xbmc should be applications running on the client, right. I thought with ltsp, it was running mostly on the server?
17:37
and if I can avoid having xorg installed on the server, I will
17:39
<alkisg>
LTSP contains rdesktop on the client, locally
17:41
<stgraber>
alkisg: speaking of rdesktop, any reason why screen.d/xfreerdp doesn't check which of rdesktop or xfreerdp is available?
17:41
alkisg: in Precise if you use "rdesktop", it'll just fail as you need to use "xfreerdp" now, that's going to confuse users I'd think
17:42
<alkisg>
stgraber: the idea was for distro maintainers to symlink rdesktop to xfreerdp, as long as they ship rdesktop too
17:43
If we're not shipping rdesktop, no need to symlink it...
17:43
Sure, it could check which of those is available, but I don't think that the above isn't clean either ^
17:43
<stgraber>
alkisg: nope, that doesn't work
17:43
<Llama_be>
If I would like the server to run Gentoo, is it going to be a big problem? (I already am looking at the Gentoo Bug concerning ltsp5)
17:43
<stgraber>
alkisg: the symlink is shipped in the upstream tarball
17:44
alkisg: and the command to run is based on $0 in that script
17:44
alkisg: so screen.d/rdesktop is a symlink to screen.d/xfreerdp in Ubuntu which means rdesktop will be started, not xfreerdp
17:44
I guess I'll push a fix for that
17:45
<alkisg>
stgraber: but why should we allow SCREEN_07=rdesktop, if rdesktop isn't installed?
17:45
I'd say, remove the upstream symlink, and let the distro packaging create it if they ship it
17:46
Or rename the xfreerdp file to rdesktop if they *only* ship rdesktop
17:46
stgraber: SCREEN_07=rdesktop <params> will just confuse users if they user xfreerdp, as it accepts different parameters
17:46
s/user/use
17:47
<stgraber>
alkisg: hmm, right, I guess we'll see what happens when people start using it then ;)
17:47
<alkisg>
We can show a message that "rdesktop isn't available, please use SCREEN_07=xfreerdp instead"
17:47
<stgraber>
because anyone "upgrading" their setup will get a non working thin client
17:48
<alkisg>
And that's the correct thing to do, they need to notice that rdesktop is not included any more, and update their parameters
17:48
Rather than getting a broken sound or something and having to spend time to discover why
17:52
<stgraber>
alkisg: http://paste.ubuntu.com/854288/
17:53
<alkisg>
stgraber: maybe a `read -p "Press Enter to continue..."` after the messages?
17:53
What happens when a screen script exits? It just restarts, right?
17:54
<stgraber>
alkisg: right ... we don't want to flood the user ;)
17:54
<alkisg>
:)
17:54
<stgraber>
well, I should just put a "read nothing" in there, there's no point in "continuing"
17:55
(as it'd just show the error message again anyway ;))
17:58
<Llama_be>
which one should I use, rdesktop or xfreerdp? are there notable differences?
17:58
<alkisg>
Llama_be: xfreerdp, is maintained
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17:59
<Llama_be>
oh, ok ;)
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18:16
<stgraber>
alkisg: "Set 192.168.0.1 as the server's IP everywhere, no more .254." :)
18:16
<alkisg>
stgraber: I'm doing that in ltsp_config.d/10server, didn't check others
18:16
(which btw I'm moving to init-ltsp.d)
18:19
OK, that was a big one... pushing...
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18:22
<stgraber>
vagrantc: I'll be tagging .2 in an hour or so
18:23
<alkisg>
stgraber: I think I don't have anything else in my quick todo list, except for a change in ltspfs to create the rules dynamically from init-ltsp.d instead of in debian/rules
18:23
That involves packaging too, do you have 5' so that we do it?
18:23
<stgraber>
alkisg: ltspfs is for vagrantc ;)
18:23
<alkisg>
Cool
18:25
vagrantc: if you have 10' for ltspfs and epoptes... :)
18:27
With the other committed changes and that pending ltspfs change, I think ltsp-client is pretty much easily installable in regular machines now
18:27
After the point where we can get bug fixes for precise, I'd like to start creating tools for managing btrfs loopback images, vbox images etc
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18:32
<LuizAngioletti>
Howdy! =D
18:32
I'm installing the Ubuntu-LTSP
18:33
And I'd like to know if there is an specific channel for the (sub)project.
18:37
<knipwim>
i don't believe there is
18:39
<stgraber>
alkisg: I'm running a final test of my fixed d-i component, after that I'll be ready to tag
18:39
<Hyperbyte>
LuizAngioletti, LTSP with Ubuntu is sort of the main project. ;-)
18:39
<stgraber>
alkisg: so if there's anything you want in 5.3.2, push within the next 30 minutes or shout so I'm aware ;)
18:40
<LuizAngioletti>
Hyperbyte: =) Hello again.
18:40
Hyperbyte: The thing is I'm having dificulties installing LTSP Ubuntu 10.04 client and server.
18:40
<Hyperbyte>
Hi! :-) Don't hesitate to ask any question here about any distribution with LTSP... just be patient in waiting for an answer. :-)
18:40
<LuizAngioletti>
actually installing is not that difficult. Make them work together in VBox seems to be.
18:40
Hyperbyte: I always am.
18:41
<Hyperbyte>
LuizAngioletti, good. :-)
18:42
<vagrantc>
alkisg: i can work on ltspfs tomorrow, or maybe later tonight, but not sooner
18:42
alkisg: also, ltspfs should drop the hook in init-ltsp.d, rather than pushing it into ltsp.
18:43
<alkisg>
vagrantc: np, if I'm here when you start working on it, ping me
18:43
Yes, that's why I didn't push it to init-ltsp.d
18:43
*to ltsp
18:43
And ldm should drop a file there for the x-display-manager stuff
18:43
*default-display-manager
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18:44
<vagrantc>
alkisg: yes, sounds good.
18:44
<alkisg>
stgraber: (sorry was afk) - no I don't think I have anything else, except if you see any bugs that need fixing
18:45
<vagrantc>
inn fact, i think there are some ldm/rc.d scripts that should go into ltsp.
18:45
<alkisg>
And some ltsp_config.d script to move into init-ltsp.d too
18:45
I already moved the 10server one...
18:45
<vagrantc>
cool.
18:46
<Hyperbyte>
LuizAngioletti, so what's your question? :-)
18:46
<LuizAngioletti>
Hyperbyte: Ok. I've finished installing LTSP-Ubuntu on a VM.
18:46
I've created a diskless client on another VM
18:46
but the client doesn't seem to be able to load the image through the network.
18:47
I can post a print so you can take a look.
18:47
Just a sec.
18:47
Hah.. I think LTSP is affraid of you. =P
18:48
Just worked, and I don't know why.
18:48
<alkisg>
stgraber: ah yes I just caught a small bug, fixing...
18:49
<LuizAngioletti>
Ok. First step towards LTSP world domination = DONE. =)
18:49
Hyperbyte: thx.
18:49
<vagrantc>
alkisg: the nbd-disconnect script won't work well with encrypted swap, which won't be /dev/nbd*
18:49* vagrantc should really ignore #ltsp for a few hours
18:49
<alkisg>
Hehe
18:49
I didn't have time to test about nbd swap at all
18:50
*encypted swap at all
18:51
<vagrantc>
it seems to be default on debian
18:51
ah, it defaults to nbd-swap if the appropriate packages are installed
18:51* vagrantc wonders if we shouldn't name the NBD swap service as ltsp-swap
18:52
<Hyperbyte>
vagrantc, there's always http://irclogs.ltsp.org/ to catch up later. ;-)
18:52
<alkisg>
vagrantc: my idea was that only one swap service will be needed per server, no need to name it ltsp-specific... at some time it may even be shipped as an example of the nbd package
18:53
Hyperbyte: if only the banner was scrollable... :P
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18:56
<Jon-->
Hyperbyte, To answer your question, we don't have any custom panel applications running, as previously mentioned alternative hardware loads gnome-panel fine, and yes you can pop open a term and run it manually. ctrl+alt+f2 still doesn't work, but the panel will open properly
18:56
<knipwim>
alkisg: can /etc/ltsp/init-ltsp.conf be used for any var used in the ltsp-init.d scripts?
18:56
<Jon-->
Oh shoot I'm sorry Hyperbyte I was trying to use history to recall a diff message
18:57
<alkisg>
Jon--: did you see my remark about compiz?
18:57
knipwim: I don't know about that file, let me check the sources...
18:57
<knipwim>
it's in init-ltsp
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18:58
<knipwim>
at least it's sourced there
18:58
<Jon-->
Having an issue with certain fat clients booting Intel chipsets. They will boot but are missing a few elements of GNOME (gnome-panel, ctrl+alt+f2 support, gnome-panel applets after manual reboot). We don't have any custom panel applications running, as previously mentioned alternative hardware loads gnome-panel fine, and yes you can pop open a term and run it manually. The machines not having the issue are slower and use NVIDIA. We have modifie
18:58
d xsession to always use gnome-classic, thinking it was a unity-3d support issue.
18:58
alkisg, nope
18:58
<alkisg>
knipwim: yes, looks like it can set any var, but it won't be saved for later stages
18:58
!compiz | echo Jon--:
18:58
<ltsp>
Jon--: compiz: the default window manager in gnome is gnome-wm, which automatically chooses compiz if it thinks that the card supports it. Compiz is causing login problems to some clients (LP #673072). To disable it, see !disable_compiz. To restore it, see !restore_compiz
18:59
<Jon-->
!disable_compiz | echo Jon--
18:59
<ltsp>
Jon-- disable_compiz: To disable compiz for all users, run: sudo gconftool-2 --direct --config-source xml:readwrite:/etc/gconf/gconf.xml.mandatory --type string --set /desktop/gnome/session/required_components/windowmanager metacity
18:59
<alkisg>
Jon--: in the chroot
18:59
<Jon-->
Yep
18:59
Thnx, will try
18:59
<alkisg>
Jon--: to test more quickly, you can do it from a SCREEN_02=shell before login
18:59
!SCREEN_02
18:59
<ltsp>
alkisg: SCREEN_02: To get a root shell on an Ubuntu thin client: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/ClientTroubleshooting#Using_a_shell_SCREEN
19:04
<Jon-->
alkisg, We can get a root shell using a more hackish way, that's kind of cool
19:04
<stgraber>
alkisg: the new ltsp-client-builder works apparently, did you push the fix for your small bug?
19:04
<Jon-->
We have ssh keyed access from one of the accounts to the server, so we ssh into the server, then ssh in as root@box from server which works with sudo
19:05
<alkisg>
stgraber: yes, two of them, done
19:05
Jon--: nice, just issue it there then before logging in a client
19:06
<Jon-->
Just use the same disable compiz command, locally to that one box, and log out?
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19:08
<alkisg>
Run that command on the client in any way you want whenever you want. After that try to login and see if you don't get the problem again.
19:08
<stgraber>
alkisg: ok, tagging now then
19:09
<alkisg>
Cool, I'll test tomorrow morning
19:13
<LuizAngioletti>
Do any of you know Amos?
19:15
<Jon-->
alkisg, no change, though I don't know how to verify the client is using metacity now
19:17
<alkisg>
Jon--: ps x ==> and put it to pastebin
19:17
<Jon-->
ps aux | grep metacity ?
19:19
Give me a minute
19:19
should be noted that clients for this setup do not have inet, I'm running ps aux as root and pastebining that
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19:20
<Jon-->
alkisg, Ah fml, IT guys must have moved this box onto the actual switch so I don't have wan access now -_-' Be back in 5 or so. FYI : compiz is running in ps aux list for that ltsp client, despite running that gconftool command.
19:21
<alkisg>
Jon--: where did you run that command?
19:21
On your server or on your client?
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19:23
<Jon-->
I ran it as root@ltsp27
19:23
ltsp27 being the hostname of that client
19:23
<stgraber>
alkisg: uploaded
19:24
<alkisg>
Nice!
19:24
<Jon-->
running it directly on the client as the test user also has compiz running
19:24
<alkisg>
Jon--: and did you login _after_ you ran the command?
19:24
And on the same client, without rebooting it?
19:25
Because after reboot, all changes are lost...
19:25
<Jon-->
alkisg, yes
19:26
<alkisg>
That's very strange then, gconf settings not having effect...
19:26
<Jon-->
alkisg, 1 logout 2 gconf 3 login correct?
19:26
<alkisg>
Jon--: yes
19:26
<Jon-->
alkisg, I'll try it again
19:26
<alkisg>
Also notice that you shouldn't be able to run that command from the client as you said, because users don't have sudo rights on fat clients
19:27
<Jon-->
I ran it sshd in as root@ltsp27
19:27
Then went to the box and signed in and ran ps
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19:29
<Jon-->
alkisg, I don't know why that didn't work
19:31
<alkisg>
Jon--: anyway, first test if that's actually your problem. Purge compiz-core from your ssh shell, and then try to login again
19:31
All those changes are temporary if you do them on a booted client...
19:32
<LuizAngioletti>
See you guys later. =)
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19:32
<Jon-->
alkisg, We have ro on root file system, we are using fats.
19:32
alkisg, Is this why this isn't working? We aren't using a nfs root we're using nbd root
19:33
<alkisg>
Jon--: ltsp fat clients are using cow root file systems
19:33
You can change anything you want, and the changes go to a tmpfs
19:33
<Jon-->
alkisg, ... really? <3.
19:34
We now have no de at all.
19:34
Maybe metacity isn't installed?
19:34
metacity is installed.
19:36
alkisg, any ideas?
19:37
<alkisg>
Jon--: let's start over
19:38
When you login to the intel clients, what do you see?
19:38
<Jon-->
Right now, a completely black screen.
19:38
Usually, a desktop with no gnome-panel
19:38
(purging compiz-core black screened the client on login)
19:39
<alkisg>
OK, reboot the client, press alt+f2, open a gnome-terminal, and type: metacity --replace
19:40
And see if that fixes your problem
19:40
<Jon-->
alt+f2 also doesn't work by the way ;)
19:40
ctrl+alt+t does
19:40
<alkisg>
OK
19:40
<Jon-->
alkisg, metacity --replace doens't need uid 0 right?
19:40
<alkisg>
No
19:42
<Jon-->
alkisg, The gnome-terminal blinks, restores. No gnome-panel. No black screen though.
19:42
<alkisg>
Jon--: ok, now run: gnome-panel
19:43
<Jon-->
alkisg, gnome-panel runs
19:43
<alkisg>
So it sounds like compiz is the problem
19:43
<Jon-->
It should be noted that we could always manually run it, it just didn't run on boot (including some other GNOME things)
19:43
Even with compiz we can do this, but you get a blank desktop on login
19:43
<alkisg>
:)
19:43
Yes that changes things
19:44
rm .xsession-errors for a user, then try to login, and paste the newly generated .xsession-errors
19:44
<Jon-->
If memory serves me correctly, nothing of substantial value :P
19:44
I'll go check
19:45
3 'failed in bind() operation not permitted'
19:45
I'll pastebin it
19:47
alkisg, Sorry for delay, friend needed a hand w something. Patebin is here http://pastebin.com/KS9Jkm4H I am signing into a diff account on an NVIDIA system so you can get a diff if you like.
19:49
alkisg, Here's a paste from a working client http://pastebin.com/tWYrCi5G
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19:52
<Jon-->
Ah-hah! 'Starting unity-window-decorator' is on the Intel machine, absent from the working one. What the hell, all the xsession files are set to "Exec=gnome-session --session=classic-gnome"
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19:55
<Jon-->
alkisg, if you messaged me back I missed it, wifi cut out
19:58
<alkisg>
Jon--: no... so it looks like your problem is still unity? Purging it might help... Btw why didn't you at least use 10.04 instead of 11.04? :D
19:59
<Jon-->
alkisg, haha. Because we're idiots?
19:59
I'll try a local purge
20:00
alkisg, apt-get purge unity no affect
20:01
<alkisg>
Jon--: dpkg -l 'unity*' | grep ^ii
20:02
<Jon-->
alkisg, asset-tool, common, place-apps, place-files
20:02
want me to purge these as well?
20:02
<alkisg>
At least the common one, I believe would help
20:02
It's no more an LTSP problem though
20:02
It's an incompatibility of an old version of unity with your cards
20:02
It might even be solved in recent versions
20:03
<Jon-->
unity-common no effect
20:03
alkisg, next one to try?
20:03
<alkisg>
You're removing those and trying logoff/logon?
20:03
<Jon-->
Mhm
20:03
Well I'm logging off, removing, logging in
20:03
But shouldn't make a diff
20:03
<alkisg>
There's also apt-get purge --auto-remove
20:04
<Jon-->
if I do that to unity it offers dkms*
20:04
<alkisg>
But I really think you should move the rest of the unity-related problems to #ubuntu
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20:04
<alkisg>
They're more knowlegeable with unity there
20:04
<Jon-->
alkisg, I've been there, all they tell me to do is edit xsession and it'll fix everything... :P
20:04* alkisg hasn't even used unity yet, and from the little he's seen it, doesn't think he's going to...
20:05
<mnevans>
Hello LTSP world. Third request for help (or does the silence mean I am just f$$ked)? I had usb localdev support working on a AMDE-350 amd64 client, LTSP, Ubuntu 10.10 (per instructions here: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/AMDE-350). It apparently broke with kernel upgrade a few weeks ago. Repeated process - no luck. Any suggestions for fixes? I really need to be able to mount a USB stick on a client. Thanks in advance.
20:06
<Jon-->
alkisg, I've done apt-get purge --auto-remove on every unity* package from dpkg with ii.
20:08
<risca>
mnevans, Have you tried looking at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EnableLTSP5LocalDevices
20:09
<mnevans>
@ risca, thank you, yes, I have performed the troubleshooting there; also here which is more up to date: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebugLocalDev
20:10
<risca>
mnevans, Ok. Does any of the steps outlined fail or show any error?
20:10
<mnevans>
To continue, I don't think the ltsp udev rules fired, and I can't manually issue a mount command as in step 3 and 4.
20:10
<alkisg>
Jon--: and it still launches unity?
20:11
<Jon-->
alkisg, .xsession.errors still reports unity-window-decorator
20:11
and fails to load gnome-panel
20:11
<risca>
Jon--, Try it with a new user?
20:12
<alkisg>
Jon--: I can't help you, I don't have 11.04, there's no "unity-window-decorator" in my 12.04 installation. Try asking in #ubuntu again.
20:12
Or install another version :)
20:12
<risca>
mnevans, Is there an entry in /var/run/ltspfs_fstab on the client?
20:12
<Jon-->
alkisg, There isn't a package for it at all -_-'
20:13
<mnevans>
risca, good question, I executed ltsp-localapps xterm, and then cd /var/run/ No ltspfs_fstab on the client there.
20:13
<Jon-->
New user has the same error
20:16
alkisg, xsession.errors still has starting unity-window-decorator
20:16
<alkisg>
Jon--: I understand, but I can't help you because I don't have those packages in my system
20:16
It's not an ltsp problem, it's a unity/ubuntu11.04 problem
20:16
...which might even have been fixed in the meantime
20:17
<risca>
mnevans, Do you have these files: ${ltsp_chroot}/lib/udev/{add,remove}_fstab_entry
20:18
<Jon-->
alkisg, that's fine, I'll sit in #ubuntu for a few hours... They haven't even tried assisting me asking to purge unity, and I asked that yesterday every 5 mins or so, thinking this was probably the problem. I know you can't help me further though. Thanks, you're a lot of help.
20:18
<risca>
mnevans, Have a look at http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.linux.terminal-server.general/23301
20:21
<mnevans>
risca, yes, I do have those files. Looking at the link you sent...
20:21
<risca>
And they have the same or similar content I guess
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20:24
<mnevans>
I think so; I see a call to /usr/sbin/ltspfsmounter, which exists...
20:24
<risca>
mnevans, I don't know. That's all I could think of right now. Try to see if you can find any logs that indicates why /var/run/ltspfs_fstab is missing
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20:25
<mnevans>
risca, thanks for trying - it did work for at least a while, according to instructions I wrote on the wiki... alkisg, my hero - any ideas?
20:27
The only other thing I can see is that on the client, /etc/fstab contains only "# UNCONFIGURED FSTAB FOR BASE SYSTEM"
20:28
<alkisg>
mnevans: I don't use local devices, I'd have to get ssh access or similar to debug this
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20:31
<mnevans>
alkisg, and you'd need root access too, to the server? That's a level of trust I'm not sure I'm ready to grant. :|
20:31
But surely I am not the only one using an amd64 client (fat client world?)
20:31
<alkisg>
Don't worry, I'm not interested in debugging local devices since I'm not using them. But no, I wouldn't need root to your server.
20:32
You know about the problem with amd64 chroots and local devices that make local devices not work, right? I think it was solved in 11.10? Or in 12.04?
20:33
<mnevans>
alkisg, no I don't -- can you point me to that? If this is just a matter of a system upgrade, well, maybe it is time. It's just that the server is in heavy use and I'm not keen to make a change until its quieter. Plus I tried unity a while back and it was painful...
20:33
<alkisg>
mnevans: you did say it was working in the past though, no?>
20:34
So, upgrades couldn't have broken the fix, if you already had it
20:34
<mnevans>
Yes, - remember - you helped me through this. Then I tried to pay it forward with the wiki entry... then upgrades in 10.10 broke it. I think.
20:34
It worked at least once. :)
20:35
<alkisg>
mnevans: I'm pretty sure that 10.10 didn't contain the fix. Maybe we manually put the fix there?
20:35
Here's the commit that fixed it: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ltsp-upstream/ltsp/ltspfs-trunk/revision/153
20:35
<mnevans>
Yes, we did: we installed ltspfsd_1.0-1_all.deb ltspfsd-core_1.0-1_amd64.deb and then updated the image.
20:37
<alkisg>
Then maybe you downgraded it
20:37
<mnevans>
From the apt logs I don't see any updates to ltsp-related entries; only a kernel upgrade or six.
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20:37
<alkisg>
Well as I said, that's the extent of my knowledge about localdevs; I don't use them.
20:37
<mnevans>
I think it was an update... let me check...
20:38
The version in ubuntu 10.10 as of now is 0.7-0ubuntu1. The chroot has 1.0-1.
20:39
Might I need to individually upgrade the server as well?
20:41
What have I got to lose? :-D
20:41
I do see ltspfs is installed on the server, but ltspfsd-core is not.
20:43
...no, according to DebugLocalDev wiki, no, ltspfsd should not be installed on the server.
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20:53
<mnevans>
alkisg, what do you think? Install ltspfs 1.0-1 to the server?
20:54
dpkg -i --dry-run ltspfs_1.0-1_amd64.deb gives
20:54
(Reading database ... 388803 files and directories currently installed.)
20:54
Preparing to replace ltspfs 0.7-0ubuntu1 (using ltspfs_1.0-1_amd64.deb) ...
20:54
.. no warnings...?
20:56
ltspfs is from 2010-08-08. Seems old.. older than the fixed we discussed.
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20:59
<mnevans>
Hell, went ahead and did it. No errors. Then reinstalled the ltspfsd packages on the chroot. then rebuilt the chroot.
20:59
Going to reboot when that finishes and see.
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21:05
<mnevans>
...mnevans back. No, upgrading ltspfs on the server didn't do the trick. :(
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21:37
<vagrantc>
alkisg: if someday it won't be ltsp-specific, having ltsp ship a potentially conflicting filename seems like a bad idea.
21:37
alkisg: re nbd-server/conf.d/swap.conf
21:38
<alkisg>
vagrantc: it doesn't ship it, it only writes it if it's not there
21:38
If it's there, is assumes it correctly exports what we want
21:38
<vagrantc>
alkisg: well, morec the configuration of it
21:39
alkisg: i.e. how does nbd-server handle multiple named exports with the samme name
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21:39
<alkisg>
No idea, but I believe it's something we shouldn't have to rely on...
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21:40* vagrantc has also been nervous about shipping nbd-proxy as an LTSP-specific thing
21:40
<alkisg>
I think the plan with that is to be a separate package, right?
21:40
And with the NBDCLIENT env var it should now be able to do it
21:40
<vagrantc>
that's a good idea, sure.
21:40
didn't know that was a plan
21:41
separate source package, or just binary?
21:41
<alkisg>
I thought I heard stgraber mention it a while ago
21:41
Maybe source... but I'm not sure I got the whole plan
21:41
<vagrantc>
would make sense as a separate source entirely
21:42* alkisg totally agrees
21:42
<alkisg>
And without Recommends: in ltsp :)
21:42
<vagrantc>
so that it can be enabled simply by installing it?
21:42
<alkisg>
Yes, it doesn't need much to do that
21:42
<vagrantc>
and disabled
21:43
by removing it
21:43
<alkisg>
Just the existing initramfs hooks/scripts, and an update-initramfs on postinst
21:44
<vagrantc>
hope we can get agreement on that so i can have that sorted out by may or june
21:44
<alkisg>
...ltsp has a facebook group?! http://www.facebook.com/groups/52447981219/
21:44
<vagrantc>
hah
21:45
facebook, the aol of the internet
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21:49
<vagrantc>
alkisg: oooh! you implemented the keep services
21:49
<alkisg>
:)
21:49* alkisg hopes there won't be any need for KEEP_THIN_SYSTEM_SERVICES too
21:49
<vagrantc>
um.
21:50
may as well implement it... the code would be the same, no?
21:50
<alkisg>
Yeah
21:50
Could also move it into a function if it's going to do the same thing 3 times
21:51
<vagrantc>
right
21:52
people do crazy things with LTSP, so i always try as hard as possible to ensure anythinng's possible ... defaults should handle the common use-cases, but should not interfere with doing something unusual.
21:53
<alkisg>
Indeed... my next crazy thing that I want to actually use on a seminar, is to allow the tmpfs from the cow part to be an nbd-exported ext4 system instead
21:54
That will allow me to teach installing apache/mahara etc without having a lot of vbox machines :)
21:54
<vagrantc>
essentially a persistant divergence?
21:54
<alkisg>
Υεσ
21:55
Yes
21:55
<vagrantc>
cool!
21:55
<alkisg>
Even with a daemon to automatically create it :)
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21:59
<vagrantc>
alkisg: the change to detect nfs in kernel-env is broken. nfsroot isn't always passed on the commandline.
22:00
<alkisg>
vagrantc: that's only as a helper there
22:00
If it's not triggered, then 04-server will find it from /proc/mounts
22:00
We should probably merge those two
22:01
<vagrantc>
hm.
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