IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 27 May 2009   (all times are UTC)

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03:22
<stgraber>
ogra: ping
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03:23
<stgraber>
ogra: I'm looking at compiz support detection for LTSP, basically after speaking with Bryce and Michael it seems there's no way to know the video driver other than looking at the log file and we'll also need to know the pciid so back to having a local script.
03:24
ogra: I'm going to use: CM_DRY=yes compiz --replace > /dev/zero && export SKIP_CHECKS=yes
03:24
on the thin client directly and am wondering what would be best, having compiz actually installed in the chroot to have the compiz startup script or ship our own
03:24
with the pain of syncing with the one in the compiz package
03:25
<ogra>
well, thats scriptable (the syncing )
03:25
if there is no better way, we need to bite that bullet
03:26
<stgraber>
I'll be looking at how big it would be to have compiz in the chroot, if we can have some kind of extremly minimal compiz that could do it
03:27
<ogra>
we're just discussing the 2D UNR launcher and how to detect 3D capability
03:27
<stgraber>
how would you sync that in a scriptable way ? I don't think we can assume that compiz will be installed on the server at chroot generation time
03:28
<ogra>
i think the compiz wrapper script should be split out from compiz ... that way other projects can make use of the info, i'll talk to mvo about that
03:28
<stgraber>
compiz-wrapper: /usr/bin/compiz
03:28
<ogra>
UNR is a good reason to have it separated
03:28
and ltsp will benefit
03:29
<stgraber>
The following NEW packages will be installed: compiz-wrapper mesa-utils
03:29
0 upgraded, 2 newly installed, 0 to remove and 0 not upgraded.
03:29
Need to get 87.5kB of archives.
03:29
After this operation, 246kB of additional disk space will be used.
03:29
<ogra>
oh, its separate already ?
03:29
<stgraber>
sounds like something I can install in the chroot by default
03:29
<ogra>
sweet
03:29
<stgraber>
yup
03:44
ok, just added compiz-wrapper as a dependency of ldm and python-serial as a dependency on ltsp-client-core so jetpipe works correctly and compiz detection can then be done (just have to write a script for ldm for that)
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04:45
<moldy>
hi
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05:06
<moldy>
hi
05:07
my ltsp clients don't seem to execute /etc/init.d/hwclock.sh on reboot -- why not?
05:08
<laga>
it's probably not enabled in /etc/rcX.d/
05:08
where X is your runlevel
05:08
<moldy>
laga: it is there in /etc/rc0.d and /etc/rc6.d
05:08
does ltsp use non-standard runlevels?
05:08
<laga>
are the start links there or just the stop links?
05:09
<moldy>
how do i know the difference? :)
05:09
ah, i mgiht be missing the stop link, actually
05:11
i want hwclock.sh stop to be called on reboot/shutdown so the hw clock is set to the system time
05:20
ok, how i understand the problem
05:20
but why is hwclock not shown by runlevel editors such as rcconf, bum, sysv-rc-conf?
05:27
hmm, update-rc.d hwclock.sh defaults, the links look good now, but it is still not executed when the client reboots
05:38
when i shutdown an ltsp client, i don't see the usual output from the active services being stopped -- does ltsp somehow bypass this?
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06:59
<Silvergti>
hello
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07:00
<Silvergti>
Quick question: Is it possible to use a external dvd burner on a ThinClient?
07:15
<Appiah>
I think that's a no-no
07:15
works for external dvd , but not external cd/dvd burn if i remeber correctly
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08:10
<Silvergti>
ok, tks Appiah
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08:33
<alkisg>
Can anyone help me understand debian configuration files? I want to create a package, e.g. schools-ltsp-helper, which will contain a default /var/lib/tftpbootl/ltsp/i386/lts.conf. If a user changes lts.conf, and later in a newer version of my package I ship a newer version of lts.conf, what will happen? Will debconf ask the user about merging?
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08:50
<sbalneav>
alkisg: As it's not a conf file in /etc, it'll just get overwritten.
08:51
unless you write some kind of helpter script, where you put your version in /usr/share/schools-ltsp-helper/lts.conf or similar, and have a "install-lts.conf" or whatever to detect changes/do the merge, etc.
08:51
<alkisg>
sbalneav: ah, as a postinst action? OK.
08:52
And if I want to put a conf file in /etc?
08:52
E.g. /etc/dnsmasq.d/ltsp-proxydhcp ?
08:53
<sbalneav>
Not sure.
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08:54
<jammcq>
good morning friends
08:55
<sbalneav>
You'd need to read a debian packaging guide, which is where I fall down as they tend to read like legalese
08:55
Morning jammcq
08:55
<jammcq>
Scotty !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
08:55
how nice to see you here this morning
08:55
<alkisg>
Thanks sbalneav, I'll try, they do seem legalese to me too. Good morning jammcq. :)
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09:32
<johnny>
argh.. why doesn't dnsmasq have an irc channel :(
09:33
i need to figure out what the rootserver shown on boot corresponds to
09:33
<alkisg>
johnny: it has an active mailing list though, the developer answer really quick
09:34
rootserver? What's the dhcpd.conf equivelant?
09:34
<johnny>
i don't know..
09:34
i assumed it was option 17..
09:34
but that is not the case
09:36
<sbalneav>
<rant>
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09:36
<alkisg>
johnny: what do you mean by "root server"? next-server is for tftp, root server = for nfs?
09:36
<johnny>
hard to say..
09:36
i don't think it's next-server, because it gets the initramfs and kernel from the right place
09:37
alkisg, let me explain the situation
09:37
<sbalneav>
I really don't understand why people continue to try to use dnsmasq, which seems to cause people a WHOLE lot of trouble, when *well known* and *well documented* and perfectly functioning programs are aout there.
09:37
</rant>
09:37
<johnny>
sbalneav, i have had it working for 2 years now :)
09:37
<alkisg>
sbalneav: ics dhcp can't function as a proxydhcp/pxe server
09:37
<johnny>
by following the examples included :)
09:37* highvoltage hides under the desk from uncle sbalneav
09:37
<alkisg>
So dnsmasq is perfect for ltsp
09:37
Because ltsp needs pxe servers
09:38
<highvoltage>
no it doesn't
09:38
<johnny>
the problem now.. is that i'm trying to move from one ltsp server.. to another
09:38
<highvoltage>
it only needs pxe on the client side
09:38
<alkisg>
highvoltage: well, not in a strict sense, but pxe servers are there to make pxe clients function better
09:38
E.g. dnsmasq can send a pxe menu to the pxe clients
09:38
<johnny>
so it gets the right boot image, but it's getting the wrong nbd :)
09:39* sbalneav shrugs
09:39
<sbalneav>
I don't see the point of it.
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09:39
<alkisg>
sbalneav: in Greek schools we have routers acting as dhcp servers. A proxy dhcp server (=in the ltsp server) can only send the boot filename and not worry about the ip leases. It's perfect for our setups
09:40
...and I bet there are a lot of other similar needs that dhcpd can't cope with.
09:40
<sbalneav>
And why would you want to have the router hande the leases for the thin client?
09:40
<alkisg>
sbalneav: to save power, because the ltsp-server is only online when the informatics teacher teaches
09:41
...and it's less administration for the teacher.
09:41
johnny: in my ubuntu, in /etc/inetd.conf, there's a line that tells nbdrootd which image to serve on which port
09:42
You want a different server or a different image?
09:42
<sbalneav>
One server running isn't goint to save that much power, number 1. Number 2, you're complicating the setup, which require more customized support, thereby negating any of the $5.50 you'd save on power.
09:42
But, like I say, just my poinion.
09:43
<ogra>
poinion :)
09:43
<jammcq>
poinion++
09:43
<alkisg>
Number 2: dnsmasq can run as a proxydhcp even with a dynamic IP, so I'm ***simplyfying*** the setup
09:43
<ogra>
double-poinion ? :)
09:43
<johnny>
alkisg, different server...
09:44
<sbalneav>
alkisg: I'd argue you're not, but that's irrelivant.
09:44
What *should* happen, is that someone should write docs for the manual, so that we can simply POINT people to the manual to answer questions, rather than re-debugging these things in the channel.
09:44
<johnny>
sbalneav, it also means you don't have to setup bind.. :) or a seperate tftp server..
09:45
sbalneav, you could say that about 90% of what happens here
09:45
<sbalneav>
I do.
09:45
<johnny>
plus this is a non debugged issue
09:45
so there are no answers ... yet
09:45
<ogra>
bind ?
09:46
<johnny>
ogra, yes.. dns..
09:46
<alkisg>
sbalneav: there are 2 packages: ltsp-server, and ltsp-server-standalone. Why would a third package, ltsp-server-proxydhcp be a bad thing? You'd only need to say "people that have 1 NIC in their servers and have an existing dhcp server somewhere, use this package". Plug'n'play, no documentation needed...
09:46* ogra never used bind with ltsp
09:46
<johnny>
ogra, i like having dns addressable names
09:46
<alkisg>
johnny: I think there's an lts.conf option for that. Is that for gentoo or ubuntu?
09:46
<johnny>
alkisg, same diff
09:46
<sbalneav>
alkisg: Oh, c'mon. If that were true, we wouldn't need docs for ltsp-server-standalone.
09:47
<johnny>
what option are you speaking of?
09:47
<sbalneav>
we ALWAYS need docs.
09:47
<alkisg>
sbalneav: you do need them because dhcpd.conf needs docs. A proxydhcp doesn't need configuration.
09:47
<ogra>
johnny, right, you assign i in dhcpd.conf so you only maintain one service
09:47
<alkisg>
It doesn't need a range, it just needs to provide a boot filename, which should be the same for most people.
09:47
<sbalneav>
So, the only docs we have in theltsp manual are dhcp docs?
09:47
<highvoltage>
alkisg: if it doesn't need configuration why don't you just install it?
09:47* sbalneav looks
09:48
<sbalneav>
nope, seems to be lots more in there apart from dhcp
09:48
<ogra>
we might have called it DhcpHowto otherwise ;)
09:48
<alkisg>
sbalneav: com'on, I'm not talking about ltsp docs in general. I was talking about the ltsp-server and ltsp-server-standalone *differences*
09:48
We were talking about the dnsmasq vs dhcpd differences, right?
09:48
<johnny>
oh dudes..
09:48
http://www.citypaper.com/arts/story.asp?id=18125
09:48
<sbalneav>
Sure.
09:48
<johnny>
that's my peoples...
09:49
<alkisg>
Of course we need ltsp docs, and we much appreciate your work on them...
09:49
<johnny>
for our freeschool
09:49* jammcq votes that we go back to bootp
09:49
<ogra>
++
09:50
<jammcq>
or maybe all the way back to reverse arp
09:50
rarp
09:51
<sbalneav>
All I', saying is, if dnsmasq is so great, and seeing as how so many people seem to have trouble setting it up with ltsp (evidenced by the ongoing stream of questions we get on it in here), then SOMEONE should maybe write up these things, send 'em to me, and I'll stick 'em in the manual.
09:52
<jammcq>
sbalneav++
09:53
<johnny>
how familiar are people with intel managed boot agent, and what options it requests?
09:53
<ogra>
++++++
09:53
<johnny>
i'm trying to find docs, but all i get is nonsense
09:53
<ogra>
johnny, c'mon, dont distract from the discussion with actual support questions :P
09:53
<alkisg>
Hehe
09:54
<johnny>
ogra, it could be that my problem is there
09:54
<alkisg>
OK, and all I'm saying is that I'll have ltsp-server-proxydhcp package ready in some time, and I hope that someone will try it and think it's a good idea. :)
09:54
<sbalneav>
alkisg: I think it's a *great* idea
09:54
<jammcq>
alkisg++
09:55
<alkisg>
...and I also hope that dhcpd will support proxydhcp sometime. :)
09:55
<sbalneav>
I'll vote for it right now, and if anyone here votes against it, I'll give 'em a evil stare
09:55
BUT FREAKIN' DOCUMENT IT!!!!!!! :)
09:55
<jammcq>
evil stare++
09:55
<alkisg>
Heh. OK man, but really, there are no configuration files for this.
09:55
<ogra>
even eviler
09:55
<alkisg>
Only one but I auto-generate it. OK, I'll put in some docs just in case.
09:55
:P
09:56
<sbalneav>
There's no configuration file needed for ltsp-server-standalone if you have a server with 2 network cards!
09:56
the dhcpd.conf included "just works"
09:56
<alkisg>
...and 2 switches
09:56
Right.
09:56
<sbalneav>
right
09:56
<ogra>
how evil !!! that makes network admins jobless !!!!!
09:56
<alkisg>
So we get more people covered with no configuration, and that's a good thing.
09:56
<ogra>
we are such evil guys .... and even express it with staring
09:57* ogra needs to relocate
09:57
<sbalneav>
But in case you noticed (as evidenced by yourself) NO-ONE uses ltsp *EXACTLY* as we think they should
09:57
and THATS where the docs come in :)
09:57
<alkisg>
Hey, if my english was better, I'd offer to help with upstream docs, but I'm afraid I don't qualify for that.
09:57
<Gadi>
if your English *were* better
09:58
:P
09:58
<nubae>
alkisg: always sells himself short
09:58
<alkisg>
Yup. If it were, I wouldn't have this grammar problems :)
09:58* Gadi always screws up the subjunctive in Spanish, too
09:58
<nubae>
quisiera tomar ese cafe ;-)
09:58
<alkisg>
johnny: did you try setting a different "SERVER" in lts.conf?
09:59
<jammcq>
Gadi++
10:00* Gadi waves to jammcq
10:01
<Treyh>
if you guys were goign to use vbox on ubuntu to virtualize a ltsp server, would you use ubuntu desktop or server as the base OS
10:02
<sbalneav>
alkisg: your english is just fine, and I'll *EDIT* anything you send my way. Hell, you send me 100 pages of documentation in *greek*, I'll go down the the greek community center here in town and FIND someone to translate :)
10:02
morning Gadi
10:02
<Gadi>
quoth the Canadian ;)
10:02
!s
10:03
<ltspbot`>
Gadi: "s" is Scotty!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
10:03
<Gadi>
haven't done *that* in a while
10:03
gnaw thru the chain?
10:03
<sbalneav>
http://www.poe-news.com/stories.php?poeurlid=81039
10:03
Gadi: Nah, gnawed through my leg
10:04
<alkisg>
Treyh: server, would require less ram and wouldn't have X
10:04
<Gadi>
smart - easier on the gums
10:04
<sbalneav>
Other stuff here at work simply isn't getting done.
10:04* sbalneav shrugs
10:04
<Treyh>
alkisg: ty, thats what I was thinkng
10:04
<sbalneav>
At this point, I need 48 hour days.
10:04
<laga>
sbalneav: ACK
10:04
<Treyh>
alkisg: if I have 8 gigs of ram, would you setup a swap?
10:04
<sbalneav>
I'll ask here as well:
10:05
In my PPA, I've patched sabayon
10:05
<alkisg>
sbalneav: http://ts.sch.gr/ts/getFile/Ubuntu0810LTSP.pdf?bodyId=239591 <== 100 pages of greek documentation. Be my guest. :)
10:05
<sbalneav>
for ubuntu jaunty. If intersted parties could test?
10:05
alkisg: Excellent!
10:06
<johnny>
alkisg, the odd part.. is that i shouldn't have to do that.. :)
10:06
<alkisg>
johnny: why not?
10:06
I think the initscripts assume that SERVER=tftp server if not defined otherwise
10:06
<johnny>
it should just work
10:07
<alkisg>
How are you telling your clients to use different servers?
10:07
<johnny>
but the tftp server
10:07
is the server that should be the ltsp server :)
10:07
<sbalneav>
alkisg: Got the source document?
10:07
Is it in docbook?
10:08
<alkisg>
sbalneav: yes / no. In .odt
10:08
<sbalneav>
Could I have that? Easier to translate/pull stuff out of
10:08
<alkisg>
sbalneav: http://users.sch.gr/alkisg/temp/Ubuntu0810LTSP.zip
10:08
<sbalneav>
Do I have permission to use any of the images?
10:08
<alkisg>
You can use all of the images. But most of them are in greek. :(
10:09
sbalneav: I'll get the 0904 guide ready in a couple of weeks, if you want I can also send you that.
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10:10
<sbalneav>
alkisg: That's what gimp's for.
10:11
<johnny>
alkisg, the tftp server IS running on on the new ltsp server
10:11
<alkisg>
sbalneav: c'm on, getting a new screenshot is *much* easier
10:11
johnny: is that gentoo or ubuntu?
10:11
<johnny>
ubuntu, but what's the difference?
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10:11
<johnny>
this is at my coffeeshop where we run ubuntu everywhere :)
10:12
<alkisg>
I'm a little familiar with the ubuntu initscripts, so I can help a little, but I'm absolutely clueless about gento :)
10:12
<johnny>
i don't think it has to do with the init scripts.. but the dhcp option that tells it what the root server is
10:12
<alkisg>
johnny: so if you put break=init, and cat /tmp/net-eth0.conf, what do you get for ROOTSERVER ?
10:12
<johnny>
where it figures out where the nbd image should come from
10:13
i'll give that a shot
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10:13
<johnny>
when i go in
10:13
<ogra>
alkisg, hint ... you write it with two "o"
10:13
:P
10:13
<johnny>
just trying to go prepared
10:13
<alkisg>
ogra: hehehe ok :)
10:13
<johnny>
since i know you won't be awake by the time i am able to mess with it
10:13
<ogra>
alkisg, thats about as much as *i* know about it *g*
10:13
<alkisg>
johnny: look, there's a program called ipconfig which gets this info.
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10:14
<alkisg>
And it's really bad, it can't read next-server correctly
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10:14
<alkisg>
next-server == rootserver
10:14
<sbalneav>
alkisg: Actually, altavista's doing a not bad translation of some of it. More to the point, though, why don't we:
10:14
1) Take your doc
10:14
2) Turn it into a docbook file
10:14
3) Create a project/package for it
10:14
then it can be translated.
10:15
And might form the useful core of the edubuntu handbook.
10:15
<alkisg>
johnny: But next-server can be defined either in the main dhcp structure (embedded) or as option 17 (extended options). ipconfig doesn't get it if it's defined in one of those two ways - but I don't remember which one of the too, it's been too long since I looked at the source.
10:16
johnny: so you'll probably need to play with the "dhcp-no-override" dnsmasq option, which handles if next-server and boot-filename are going to be embedded or not.
10:17
sbalneav: I think I may be able to provide the docs in english, but I'll have to have some time to get familiar with docbook. And of course someone will have to correct them afterwards. If you people want, I cant try to do that in the summer (along with some other things :())
10:19
<sbalneav>
alkisg: Docbooks easy
10:20
<alkisg>
...and so is packaging I suppose, but I don't know any of them :P :D
10:21
<sbalneav>
sbalneav: OK, I've taken the odt, and done a initial conversion to docbook.
10:21
Gimme 20 minutes, I'll have a bzr tree.
10:22
<alkisg>
johnny: so if I'm right, you just need to put a line with just "dhcp-no-override" in your dnsmasq.conf.
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10:23
<alkisg>
The new udhcpc client that stgraber included in 9.04 should work fine though even without that option in dnsmasq.conf.
10:27
<johnny>
alkisg, weird ok
10:27
ahh.. but i am using 9.04
10:27
new server
10:27
<alkisg>
johnny: udhcpc is not used by default
10:28
<johnny>
ah
10:28
<alkisg>
You have to install it to the chroot
10:28
<johnny>
and it will automatically use it?
10:28
and why isn't it?
10:28
btw?
10:28
<alkisg>
Try with that dnsmasq option. I've sent patches about this in ipconfig, but I didn't get a respond...
10:29
It will be in 9.10. I guess stgraber thought it was too late in the release cycle to include it by default.
10:29
<johnny>
what i'm trying to figure out tho.. is why on boot.. right after it gets the initramfs, it says rootserver: myoldserverip
10:29
so.. udhcpc will override that?
10:29
<alkisg>
Yes
10:30
<johnny>
i'll try the dhcp-no-override for now
10:30ajohnson-afk is now known as ajohnson
10:31
<alkisg>
johnny: also, I bet that adding IPAPPEND 3 to /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/pxelinux.cfg/default also works around your problem (tells ipconfig to reuse the boot dhcp offer)
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13:43
<vagrantc>
someone had posted a patch to ltspfs affecting mounts... but i can't remember where it was posted or who posted it... and it never got committed
13:43
and i can't remember where the patch was
13:43
<ogra>
then it wasnt important ?
13:44
<vagrantc>
i would have committed it if i wasn't leaving at that moment...
13:44
<ogra>
did you check the lists ?
13:44
<vagrantc>
trying to...
13:44
alkisg: was it you?
13:44
<ogra>
anyway, have to run out ...
13:44* vagrantc waves
13:44
<alkisg>
Hi vagrantc. Nope, not me
13:46hanthana has quit IRC
13:47
<vagrantc>
maybe it's in the pastebot history...
13:48
<Gadi>
vagrantc: it was francis
13:48
<vagrantc>
ah, yes.
13:48
where'd the patch go ... i found where it was.
13:48
<Gadi>
he moved the sed line up in the remove section
13:48
<vagrantc>
yeah.
13:48
<Gadi>
hmm...
13:49
<vagrantc>
fgiraldeau: where'd you post that patch? :)
13:49
<Gadi>
https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ltspfsd/+bug/378495
13:49
found it
13:50
<vagrantc>
aha
13:50
<Gadi>
what do I win?
13:53
<cliebow>
a beer with chuck
13:54* vagrantc wonders how many Gadi has earned
13:54
<Gadi>
how much beer can a beer chuck chuck if a beer chuck could chuck beer?
13:54MM2 has quit IRC
13:55
<epsas>
what kind of patch is this?
13:55
<Gadi>
its a beer patch
13:55
mmm....
13:55
<epsas>
i guess i should read the page
13:55
<Gadi>
beer patch....
13:55* Gadi licks his beer patch
13:55
<alkisg>
like nicotine patches? no thanks
13:55
<epsas>
seattle wireless network's "hack night" is tonight... which is essentially just a glorified bar-crawl
13:56
if anybody in seattle wants to go...
13:57
ahhh - it is an rdesktop problem
13:57* vagrantc finally remembers to use the --author flag to bzr commit
13:58
<Gadi>
vagrantc: have u tested the patch?
13:59
<vagrantc>
of course i... didn't
13:59
<Gadi>
does it cure the CDROM issues you had?
13:59
ah, I was thinking it may
13:59
<vagrantc>
sure hope so
13:59
<Gadi>
it was a similar issue
14:01
<vagrantc>
committed and pushed... testing will commence... sometime
14:02ogra has quit IRC
14:02* cliebow chuck thinks a whole beer truck is due Gadi..maybe a pumper even
14:04
<Gadi>
if I have my beer truck terminology right, that would be a "beer engine"
14:04
the beer truck has a ladder instead of a pumper
14:04
right?
14:04
:)
14:06
<cliebow>
correct...as opposed to fast-reponse..ems-like
14:10
<rjune>
cliebow: should just arrange to get him some homebrew
14:11
<cliebow>
sort of like proflowers.com...probrweski.com..have a Fathers Day special..ten different homebres for 39.95
14:12
<rjune>
heh
14:12
I can't sell, that's bootlegging
14:13
<vagrantc>
ah, prohibition!
14:14nubae has quit IRC
14:15
<rjune>
I can give it away though.
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14:23* Lns looks at his leg flask holster
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14:41* vagrantc foolishly forgets that fgiraldeau's patch could easily be tested without rebuilding the package
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14:47
<Mip5>
Hey Gang - I've got a server that's running dual xeon 3.06 GHz, cache size 512 KB. I'm fairly certain that it's 32-bit. Is there any way I can run more than 4 GB of memory on the unit? The mobo will support it, but I don't know about the cpu's.
14:47
<vagrantc>
install a kernel with bigmem patches or similar
14:48
<laga>
PAE?
14:48
<Mip5>
cool! Got any good links for how to do that?
14:49
<vagrantc>
Mip5: depends on your distro, but most distros probably ship a packaged kernel that supports it
14:49
<Gadi>
linux-image-server
14:49
<Mip5>
I'm running jaunty as an ltsp server
14:50
Gadi - is that a package I could install into my currently installed server?
14:50
<Gadi>
yup
14:51
<Mip5>
Really! I'll look into it right now.
14:51
<Gadi>
im pretty sure it is the right thing
14:51
:)
14:53* alkisg used to do: apt-get install linux-server
14:53
<Gadi>
Mip5: http://www.cyberciti.biz/faq/ubuntu-linux-4gb-ram-limitation-solution/
14:54
<Mip5>
Cool - thanks everyone.
14:56
Gadi - according to this, it's a few packages and a restart. Am I right in thinking that I'll have to do this again whenever a new kernel gets released (and I decide to jump on board with it)?
14:56
<Gadi>
well, you always have to reboot when new kernels come out
14:56
whether you do this or not
14:57
<Mip5>
Gadi - right - I'm wondering whether I'll need to re-add these packages, or whether they'll carry over. I guess I'm thinking now that they will, since info about modules is stored in config files.
14:57
<alkisg>
linux-server automatically depends on the latest kernel, so it'll auto update.
14:58* Gadi nods
14:58* Lns uses linux-image-server on all his 8GB servers and it seems to work great
14:59
<Mip5>
alkisg - okay, this is really cool. Lns - great news.
14:59
I'll give this a shot and report back in a bit. Thanks again.
14:59
<alkisg>
Mip5: I'm worried about your 32-bit CPU though... well a try won't hurt
15:01
<Mip5>
alkisg - right - so we don't know yet whether these kernels will work with the 32-bit cpu? I guess I can always restart, and boot back to the old kernel, so it seems worth a shot.
15:01* Gadi isn't worried. You can do it, Mip5! All you have to do is believe!
15:01
<vagrantc>
belive + install package + reboot
15:01
<Gadi>
ok, but mostly believe
15:01
:)
15:01* vagrantc bets it woudl work without belief, given the other steps
15:02
<Mip5>
this is fun - okay brb
15:02
<Gadi>
heretic
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15:15
<matttttt>
hi all, can someone give me some pro's / con's to using ltsp over merely connecting to the display manager of a server running x? the thin-clients i want to use have a mini linux os in flash, so i don't necessarily want to pxeboot an image if there are no major advantages
15:15
<lupine_85>
matttttt: at work we use it so everyone's on essentially the same machine
15:16
<vagrantc>
matttttt: no need to reflash the flash with security updates...
15:16
<matttttt>
vagrantc: mmmm i like that one.
15:16
i can push a new image, blamo.
15:16
<vagrantc>
matttttt: ltsp5 also uses an encrypted connection to the server by default...
15:16
<matttttt>
where standard xdmcp is unencrypted?
15:17* lupine_85 is currently considering an LTSP setup at home
15:17
<vagrantc>
matttttt: and has all sorts of integration for usb sticks and other devices, sound, and such
15:17
<lupine_85>
mostly it rests on local apps - I've just started reading, but AIUI you'd get direct rendering?
15:17
<vagrantc>
matttttt: yeah, xdmcp is essentially unencrypted
15:17
<lupine_85>
and despite being a "local app", the filesystem said app is run from would be the nfs-mounted filesystem?
15:18Egyptian[Home]1 has quit IRC
15:18
<vagrantc>
lupine_85: local apps are run from the thin clients filesystem, which is usually NFS or NBD mounted...
15:18
<lupine_85>
ah, now we're getting somewhere good :)
15:18
<matttttt>
my work bought a bunch of devonit thin-clients, wants to jump on the bandwagon, but doesn't care about sound, local usb devices, etc. these users will be using ff, openoffice, that's about it.
15:19
one of the other admins had what he thought was ltsp setup, but he was just using the linux os on flash to xdmcp to the display manager of his "ltsp" server
15:19
<vagrantc>
matttttt: in that case, centralized administration will be your biggest advantage with ltsp.
15:19
matttttt: although both setups are somewhat centralized already... ltsp will just be more centralized :)
15:19
<lupine_85>
would be nice to have the laptop as a terminal
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15:20
<matttttt>
well i've got two good reasons to sell a true ltsp setup, despite added complexity :) a couple more and i think my boss will be won over.
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15:20
<vagrantc>
matttttt: well, it's actually simpler, unless you don't ever update the flash.
15:21
<Mip5>
!pastebot
15:21
<ltspbot`>
Mip5: "pastebot" is The LTSP pastebot is at http://pastebot.ltsp.org. Please paste all text longer than a line or two to the pastebot, as it helps to reduce traffic in the channel. A link to the content will be pasted in the channel.
15:22
<vagrantc>
matttttt: there's also an active community of support to help if your needs ever get more complicated.
15:22
<lupine_85>
is it particularly hard to have a lenny ltsp server and a jaunty/whatever ltsp client?
15:22
<ltsppbot>
"Mip5" pasted "Woohoo - linux-image-server rocks" (6 lines) at http://pastebot.ltsp.org/359
15:23
<vagrantc>
lupine_85: moderately hard... but the real question is: why would you want that?
15:23
<Lumiere>
matttttt: the added complexity isn't really there
15:23
<matttttt>
we're going to have to have the image and the desktop environment very locked won, that's another concern, no ability to run commands, access shell, window manager context menus, etc.
15:23
<Lumiere>
matttttt: in one case you have a usb key in every machine
15:23
<lupine_85>
jaunty is easier on my laptop, although I suspect I'm thinkin' through it wrong
15:23
<Lumiere>
in the other you bios to netboot
15:25
<lupine_85>
while I'm on thinkin' it wrong, if I have my ltsp server with a bunch of stuff that's nfs-mounted to /home on my client, and my client plays a video file from that space (not as a localapp), does the file cross the network, or is it read locally?
15:25
(locally to the server)
15:25
<Mip5>
alkisg Gadi vagrantc - worked like a charm! Great news as I had already ordered the ram, and would have had to deal with trying to return it (not to mention not being able to scale as many clients as I had proposed to support).
15:25
<epsas>
lupine_85 - the file is read on the server, and the video data is sent over X11
15:26
oh wait -- never mind
15:26
<lupine_85>
mm, 'tis what I thought :)
15:26
<vagrantc>
lupine_85: if it's not running as a local app, it's just as if you were sitting at the server's keyboard/mouse/monitor.
15:27
<lupine_85>
mm, just being certain with myself :). I've used ltsp at work a fair bit but I still don't have a great handle on it
15:27
I'm assuming ltsp5 is what I should use
15:29
<Lumiere>
matttttt: you should be able to configure gconf (or whatever WM you use) to prevent access to a lot of things
15:29
matttttt: I also suggest strongly using file level permissions on (/*)/(s)bin
15:30
to prevent normal users access to any app you don't want them to use
15:30
<matttttt>
right.
15:31
I was thinking that too, and I have already played around with the basic functionality gnome's "lockdown tool" provides to disable access to a lot of things I don't want our users touching.
15:32
<Lumiere>
yea
15:32
<Lns>
that's all really outside the scope of ltsp though...
15:32
<matttttt>
right.
15:32
<Lumiere>
Lns: but not outside the scope of his project
15:33
<Lns>
Lumiere: right, but whether or not he uses ltsp he's gonna need to lock down the app server.
15:33
<Lumiere>
yep
15:33
<matttttt>
exito what it ltsp short of a method of encrypting
15:34
<Lumiere>
matttttt: it's also done a lot of the integration to do pxe+tftp netbooting
15:34
matttttt: so you install ltsp on the server and then just point clients at it and they get the OS from the ltsp server
15:35
and then boot an encrypted x session to the server
15:35
<matttttt>
right, ok.
15:35
just making sure i'm not missing some other key thing it does that makes it different from the way people have been sharing x sessions forever
15:35
i've used tftp/pxe for lots of other stuff.
15:36
<Lns>
administration of the clients is very easy...a global lts.conf file allows you to specify many parms specific to each client or a group of clients
15:36
<Lumiere>
matttttt: it takes that way people have used it for a long time and brought it all together with global configuration and easier setup
15:38
<matttttt>
ok, thanks for the input guys
15:39* lupine_85 goes for it
15:39
<Lumiere>
matttttt: np
15:39
matttttt: it's even easier now then it was when I was actually really active with LTSP
15:39* Lumiere used LTSP 3.x which was really fairly nasty compared to now
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16:16
<vagrantc>
Gadi: well, the patch doesn't fix my cd problems, but doesn't seem to break anything else for me.
16:17* Gadi shakes his head
16:19
<vagrantc>
i should do a squashfs+NBD build sometime and see if that fixes it.
16:20
could be a bind_mount issue
16:20
<Gadi>
mmm...
16:20* Gadi nos
16:20
<Gadi>
*nods
16:20
<vagrantc>
that's probably the largest diff between debian and ubuntu's ltsp at this point
16:22
although, now that i think about it, it wasn't nearly as flakey as the cd problems i had before ...
16:23
i.e. it didn't impair the ltsp-server side mounts
16:23
so it's at least a step in the right direction
16:23* lupine_85 is assuming 50GB will be enough for /opt/ltsp? ;)
16:23
<vagrantc>
almost off by two orders of magitude
16:24
1GB should be plenty
16:24
<lupine_85>
heh
16:24
i'm using LVM so can shrink it later
16:24
<Lumiere>
lupine_85: opt/ltsp is just a very basic os template
16:25
<vagrantc>
if you start to mess with localapps, you might want a little more... but other than that.
16:25
<Lumiere>
it doesn't contain any real apps unless as vagrantc says... you do localapps
16:25
<lupine_85>
mm, so really having my ltsp server's / on non-lvm wasn't the brightest thing in the world to do ;)
16:26
<Lumiere>
lol yep
16:26
<lupine_85>
meh, I say 50GB for that should be fine :)
16:26
(which is what it is)
16:26
then /home is 75GB and the media partition is 600GB or so
16:26
<Lumiere>
lol
16:26
I would personally combine media and home
16:27* lupine_85 has the good fortune to have two 1TB drives in RAID1 at home
16:27
<vagrantc>
doesn't /media just basically contain directories for mount points?
16:27
<lupine_85>
Lumiere: I'm not the only one using the media
16:27
<Lumiere>
lupine_85: and they're group shared?
16:27
<lupine_85>
vagrantc: media as in videos and music and images
16:27
<vagrantc>
ah.
16:27
<lupine_85>
nah, but they're world-readable
16:27* Lumiere used to mount that in /usr/local
16:28
<lupine_85>
I'm slowly migrating my home network to something "proper"
16:28
also a useful testbed to learn more about stuff I do at work
16:28* vagrantc is slowly migrating towards the grocery store...
16:29
<lupine_85>
heh
16:29
requires additional go-faster stripes
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16:38
<Gadi>
stgraber: ping
16:38
<stgraber>
Gadi: pong
16:39
<Gadi>
stgraber: the back of my brain seems to recall something you mentioned about nbd-client being in the wrong place after the switchroot
16:39
and that you fixed this to fix something
16:39
am I dreaming again?
16:39
<stgraber>
yeah
16:40
<Gadi>
so, I am dreaming again
16:40
<Lns>
Gadi: I recommend a "reality check" by checking your watch, or pinching yourself. ;)
16:40
<stgraber>
hehe, nah
16:40
<Gadi>
damn hallucinagens
16:40
1 sec
16:40
ph call
16:40
<stgraber>
basically the kernel tries to respawn nbd-client form its previous location
16:41
that being in the initrd
16:41
and so fails to do so
16:41
my workaround is to reconnect nbd at boot time, doing so from nbd itself
16:41
so that persistent mode then works
16:42
<alkisg>
Can't the same location be used in both the initrd and later on?
16:42
(is that "path" location, or inode-location?)
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16:59
<Gadi>
stgraber: how do you reconnect without killing the mount
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17:01
<stgraber>
Gadi: I actually kill it but reconnect fast enough before it timeouts
17:01
<Gadi>
and that doesn't scre up squashfs?
17:02
*screw
17:02
interesting
17:02
I wonder what happens if there is too much delay in reconnecting
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17:22
<lupine_85>
humm, should I be worried that I'm blindly setting up an amd64 LTSP client/server ?
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17:29
<mattttttttttt>
well i've got opensuse kiwi ltsp mostly up, when i login to the display manager on the client now it sits for a while, then says no response from the server, restarting. is this some kind of ssh timeout? i can't find any relevant logs
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17:43
<lupine_85>
ooh, nearly there
17:44
It's got as far as booting the kernel, but then fails because it can't find the pxelinux.0/nbi.img referenced by the default ltsp dhcpd.conf
17:45
<johnny>
hello, i have returned
17:45
of course.. my main greek man isn't about
17:47* lupine_85 tweaks options, tries some more
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17:50
<lupine_85>
would help if I knew enough to work out exactly what's failing ;)
17:50
<johnny>
well it shouldn't be looking in pxelinux.0
17:50
oh..
17:50
sorry.. i've never actually seen nbi.img uses
17:50
used*
17:51
lupine_85, all my machines just use pxe
17:52
<lupine_85>
mmm
17:52
I think I red-herring'd myself
17:52
<johnny>
likely
17:52
<lupine_85>
I am using PXELinux
17:52
the issue was that I was trying to mount the wrong NFS path
17:53
at work, we have an LTSP image and I had to rebuild that to make changes take effect... which I hated... I don't seem to have that here?
17:55
w00t, a login
18:04
ah, nbd vs. nfs
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18:09
<Ahmuck>
hi. if a user session closes unexpectedly, firefox will not open again upon re-login. what is the solution to this?
18:17Ahmuck has quit IRC
18:34
<lupine_85>
hee, this is awesome
18:39* lupine_85 gets video working
18:39
<lupine_85>
(properly, that is)
18:39
so what are the advantages of nbd over nfs? any at all?
18:40
<johnny>
faster
18:40
otherwise we wouldn't be using it
18:40
damnit
18:40
uggh
18:40
<lupine_85>
heh. *lots* faster?
18:40* johnny yells at initramfs/pxe
18:42
<lupine_85>
well, I've learned a bunch of stuff that'll help me get the work ltsp server back into good nick, anyway
18:44* lupine_85 is strongly preferring the dynamic-update nature of nfs over nbd, mind
18:45
<johnny>
lupine_85, uhm.. it should be rare that you ever need to touch the chroot.. so what's the big deal
18:45
most of all the customization happens on the server anyways
18:46
<lupine_85>
when just getting it set up, it comes in very handy
18:47
I just got the proprietary nvidia for my laptop working without any image rebuilding or machine rebooting, for instance
18:49* lupine_85 guesses that it's nice for initial setup but pretty irrelevent in the long term
18:49
<lupine_85>
now, audio... I think I'm missing pulse on the server
18:50
right now, sound comes out of the server speakers when playing from the client :D
18:52
heh
18:52
installing pulseaudio the package was enough to get it working
18:53
oof, 'though it's killing the network right now
18:53
odd, I'm only on 1MB/sec
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18:54
<lupine_85>
ah, discs thrashing
18:56
has anyone run an LTSP server inside a VM?
18:57
<johnny>
this makes no sense.. anybody here familiar with the pxelinux config file?
18:58
<lupine_85>
might be more sensible to move my appliance's other functions into VMs instead, mind
18:59
and/or make my clients thicke
18:59
...r
18:59
ah well, bedtime
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20:11
<sbalneav>
!seen jammcq
20:11
<ltspbot`>
sbalneav: jammcq was last seen in #ltsp 10 hours, 11 minutes, and 15 seconds ago: <jammcq> Gadi++
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20:19
<johnny>
yay.. my computer finally works properly
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22:51
<alkisg>
Ryan52: about https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/375278 - I've been using the patch for 2 weeks now with no problems. I really think it's safe to apply it.
22:51
(good morning all :))
23:00
sbalneav, since it's about the ssh process, I'd appreciate it if you could have a look at it to verify it's ok.
23:02
<Ryan52>
alkisg: I can't look at it tonight, sorry. and I need to be extra careful with what I commit to ltsp stuff, since it seems I always screw something up :P
23:02
<alkisg>
Ooops OK man thanks :)
23:03
<Ryan52>
sbalneav: please steal that bug from me and apply the fix if you look at it.
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