IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 21 October 2011   (all times are UTC)

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07:38
<laurei>
quick question: can I allow guest accounts in fat clients?
07:42
<Hyperbyte>
What do you mean with "guest accounts"?
07:43
If you're talking about Ubuntu's guest account functionality, that can't be done.
07:43
AFAIK, anyways.
07:43
You can however just create an account name guest, which has it's home directory wiped on login.
07:43
Probably suits your needs as well
07:43
<laurei>
Hyperbyte: i would love to do just that
07:44
so i useradd guest on the chroot, and how do i go about making it r.o.
07:47
and if i created account called guest, would other guests on other fat clients see the temporary files Hyperbyte ?\
07:49
<Hyperbyte>
You'd need to add the guest account to the server, and you'd need 1 guest account per fat client, probably.
07:49
Depends on the programs you're gonna run as guest, but many programs like Firefox don't like being opened twice unfortunately.
07:51
<laurei>
i wasnt aware fat clients could have built-in users tied to them, any url for this info?
07:52
<Hyperbyte>
!lts.conf
07:52
<ltsp>
Hyperbyte: lts.conf: http://manpages.ubuntu.com/lts.conf
07:53
<Hyperbyte>
LDM_GUESTLOGIN, LDM_USERNAME, LDM_PASSWORD
07:53
Hrm, maybe LDM_ALLOW_USER allows local logins on fat clients, from /etc/passwd rather than from the server?
07:54
Never seen that one before. Might be problematic with getting a read/write home directory anyways, with a local account, since your fat clients probably don't have local storage. You'd have to hack the home directory to mount via tmpfs, might be easier to just rely on server guest accounts.
07:57
<laurei>
yes i think a server guest account would be best, but really only if each login was insulated
07:57
somehow
07:57
session* was insulated
07:57
<Hyperbyte>
Insulated, how?
07:58
Please be more specific in what you want. :-)
07:59
<laurei>
i would like just one guest login on the server, and can be accessed from any machine, allows unlimited login sessions, but each one is insulated so it doesnt share files with other guest logins on other machines
08:01
and not needing to rely on local hardware
08:02
hard drives
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08:47
<Hyperbyte>
laurei, what you want then is multiple guest accounts on the server, one per client.
08:47
How many clients do you have that need guest account access?
08:48
Although - you have fat clients, right?
08:48* Hyperbyte scrolls up
08:48
<Hyperbyte>
Yes, you have fat clients.
08:48* Hyperbyte scrolls down
08:48
<Hyperbyte>
Try this, as an experiment.
08:49
Create an account "guest" on the server and set it's home directory to /tmp
08:50
See if you can log in the from the client.
08:50
I think the thin client won't mount the directory from the server then.
08:51
*fat client
08:51
But this you can check afterwards.
08:52
Actually, set the directory to /tmp/guest/
08:55
Yeah, I think that's it. Use NFS_HOME to mount your /home/ directory via NFS (good idea with fat clients anyways)... create guest account with homedir /tmp/guest/ on the server.... then log in from fat client. It should have the homedir of the user in /tmp/ on the client, and all other users' home dirs from the server.
08:56
Can't try this for you by the way, no fat clients here. But theoretically it should be working that way.
08:58
<laurei>
ok i will try this!
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08:58
<Hyperbyte>
Do please stick around in here and let me know how it goes. :)
08:59
And feel free to stick around after you get it working as well. ;-)
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09:00
<laurei>
yeah i will, ive been in here for a few days:)
09:05
<Hyperbyte>
Like it so far? ;)
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09:17
<lifeboy>
Hi all
09:17
I have an Ubuntu Maverick LTSP server and I need to compile special kernel for my thin clients
09:19
So I can't use the ltsp-build-client command as far as I can see, but how do I build my client image now?
09:19
The client is a Vortex86SX processor
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09:21
<lifeboy>
Most of the links and howto's I find are for Ubuntu or some other distro, running both the server and the client on that distro. In this case the manufacturer has xlinux which I have downloaded, but I can't figure out how to make a boot image for LTSP to use
09:22
I have instructions on how to compile my own kernel, but many of the items I cannot find when I use "make menuconfig"
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09:28
<Hyperbyte>
lifeboy, what exactly do you want to do? I assume it's just one specific kernel module you want, which isn't included in Ubuntu?
09:29
<lifeboy>
For one, I must turn on math processor emulation
09:29
the Vortex98SX has the 486SX instruction set...
09:29
<Hyperbyte>
Ah
09:29
<lifeboy>
sorry Vortex86SX
09:30
According to my howto for Ubuntu 10.04 it should be there, but on 10.10 I can't find it
09:31
<Hyperbyte>
You might get better answers asking these questions in #ubuntu
09:31
<lifeboy>
I'd prefer to use the xlinux distro for the client OS, then I know everything works. They've got IDE, USB, LAN, Wifi, et al in the client
09:32
Well I thought I'd ask here for a more generic answer, since the client OS will not be Ubuntu.
09:32
Where can I read on how to build your own client OS?
09:39
<Hyperbyte>
I have no idea really, but this might help you get started a little: http://sourceforge.net/apps/mediawiki/ltsp/index.php?title=IntegratingLtsp
09:40
Not sure how much of that is still accurate though.
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10:04
<lifeboy>
From first looks, it may be the exact opposite of what I'm looking for, but I'll work through it and see what I can learn. I'll ask some Ubuntu people and over at CLUG as well.
10:06
Hyperbyte, actually that link is what I was looking for! Thanks.
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10:20
<Hyperbyte>
lifeboy, let us know how it goes. :)
10:33
<lifeboy>
I will, thanks, it's quite a big chunk for me to bite off (or is it byte off? ;-)
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10:41
<Hyperbyte>
;-)
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11:47
<lifeboy>
Who can give me editor rights to the LTSP wiki over at Sourceforge? https://sourceforge.net/apps/mediawiki/ltsp
11:48
I want to update the out of date page http://sourceforge.net/apps/mediawiki/ltsp/index.php?title=IntegratingLtsp and add my own page for Vortex86 base thin clients
11:51
<Hyperbyte>
lifeboy, nice... currently there's a developer meeting going on (or pretty soon from now)... one of the subjects is getting wiki's more accessible to users, and doing something more with ltsp.org
11:52
Currently, the person to give you access is sbalneav I think.
11:52
<lifeboy>
Ah, that sounds good. I see there are three editors currently, but they don't have pages, so I have no idea how to contact them.
11:54
<Hyperbyte>
Who are the three editors?
11:54
<lifeboy>
Ah, I found Scott Balneaves over at LTSP5 on launchpad
11:56
Actually, there are 3 admins: Jammcq, Sbalneav, Stgraber and there are more editors
11:56
https://sourceforge.net/apps/mediawiki/ltsp/index.php?title=Special:ListUsers&group=admin
11:57
<Hyperbyte>
jammcq and sbalneav come here from time to time, stgraber is here now (but probably away from keyboard)
11:58
<lifeboy>
I running a mediawiki for documenting inhouse database services at a banking client and there are some nifty tricks to be done to integrate the documentation into the environment and vice versa... but that's besides the point here.
11:59
<Hyperbyte>
Well right now it's besides the point
11:59
But maybe soon not so very much. :)
12:00
<lifeboy>
I've put the whole direction of my company into LTSP to run business apps, so I'm really keen to share and bring documentation up to date where it's lacking.
12:01
Especially using lower cost thin clients like this one: http://www.norhtec.com/products/surfboard/index.html
12:02
In South Africa thin clients cost more than complete PC's!!
12:03
<Hyperbyte>
Oh man
12:03
That's pretty neat hardware!
12:03
Looks like a horrible keyboard to type on, but the concept is quite awesome.
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12:09
<lifeboy>
! I actually sit with one and it's a great keyboard. Very nice feel to the keys and solid, not plasticky at all. Quite different from what the image appears to say!
12:09
<ltsp`>
lifeboy: Error: "I" is not a valid command.
12:12
<Hyperbyte>
Isn't it annoying that the keyboard is slightly raised?
12:29
<lifeboy>
O, you mean the angle (lower at the front than at the back)?
12:30
The keys are a little flat for my liking, but after a few minutes you get used to it
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12:33
<Hyperbyte>
Hrm, it looks like the front of the keyboard is a bit above the table, but maybe that's just the picture...
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13:32
<fellowEnt>
Happy Friday everyone!
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13:34
<Hyperbyte>
Happy Friday! I like it!
13:34
Happy nearly-weekend. :)
13:35
<muppis>
I can't really say it's going tobe happy, but hopefully good atleast. >)
13:35
to be
13:36
<Hyperbyte>
at least. :)
13:36
<muppis>
:P
13:36
<Hyperbyte>
Heh!
13:36
How are you muppis? :)
13:38
<muppis>
Hyperbyte, seen better days. Couldn't make deside divorce or not, but otherwise pretty well, thank you. :)
13:39
But now off for a weekend. :)
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13:55
<jason___>
powerpc is the devil
14:08
<Hyperbyte>
muppis, divorce or not? That sounds like you're in some tough position...
14:08
jason___, I take it things are not going well.
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14:48
<jason___>
Hyperbyte: not necessarily.
14:48
Hyperbyte: I havent worked on it much lately, but last I left off I was having some sort of DHCPACK error. NAK, ACK? something like that.
14:48
syslog would just loop
14:48
but then it dawned on me...
14:48
these LTSP PPC clients were to utilize flash on small levels
14:48
does PPC Linux Flash even exist?
14:49
If not, then this whole idea is next to useless
14:51
<ogra_>
doesnt exist
14:52
use gnash on ppc
14:52
<Hyperbyte>
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PowerPCFAQ#Flash.2C_Flash_video_and_Gnash
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15:07
<jason___>
is gnash worth it?
15:07
I used it like 4 years ago and it was pretty much horrible at that point
15:07
I'm also reading about "lightspark" at the moment
15:07
because, to be quite frank, I'm halfway thinking I could just do native installs on all of these boxes and be done with it
15:08
I know that may not make much sense with how easy LTSP is to set up and manage but I've invested SO much time into it and it keep sfialing I just have to weigh options
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15:10
<markit>
hi, can someone give me a "high level" introduction to ltsp? I use it, I've got that there is a chroot, that clients boot with pxe, dhcp, tftp and "load" the minimal OS to have X-Window server and be able to log in the ltsp server
15:10
but how is ssh involved?
15:11
or do you have a link that explains all this stuff clearly without too deep details?
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15:14
<markit>
ehm, wikipedia for the rescue :)
15:15
btw, I know ltsp has the param about criptography... but how can ssh tunnel NOT be cripted? is a ssh param?
15:15
I thought ssh was always crypted
15:18
<ogra_>
by default everything goes through the tunnel and is crypted
15:19
<jason___>
ogra_: everything is encrypted until you put LDM_DIRECTX in the lts.conf, right?
15:19
<ogra_>
if you use the LDM_DIRECTX setting, all the payload data from the X server is transferred unencrypted
15:19
<jason___>
then its unencrypted to enhance speed
15:19
ah
15:19
:P
15:19
<ogra_>
but passwords etc are still handled inside the tunnel
15:20
or home mounts via sshfs etc etc
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15:21
<jammcq>
hmm, no alkisg, maybe it means he was able to get on the plane to head to the US
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15:26
<stgraber>
that'd be great
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15:27
<ogra_>
if there wasnt a strike or some such
15:28
i guess public transportation in greezce is a matter of (lots of) luck atm
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16:00
<markit>
ogra_: back
16:01
ogra_: mmm so is encrypted outside ssh?
16:01
that is what I can't get
16:01
<ogra_>
no
16:01
vereything outside ssh isnt encrypted
16:01
<markit>
with LDM_DIRECTX=true where are X data sent?
16:01
<ogra_>
to the xserver
16:01
<markit>
ogra_: but X is tunneled through ssh, right?
16:01
<ogra_>
its like xdmcp
16:01
no
16:01
<markit>
ah!
16:02
<ogra_>
everything *but* X is tunneled
16:02
<markit>
so by default is ssh -X
16:02
<ogra_>
yes
16:02
<markit>
but if I choose LDM_DIRECTX=true, then X is sent directly
16:02
<ogra_>
well, its still using ssh -X
16:02
but it sets xauth and DISPLAY to do direct transport after login
16:03
so the locin is alwayss encrypted
16:03
*login
16:03
as well as all senbsible data liek sshfs mounted home etc
16:03
but all X data after login goes unencrypted
16:03
<markit>
but after that, all X is outside ssh
16:03
<vagrantc>
although audio and localdevices don't ever go over the ssh tunnel
16:04
just to keep it confusing :)
16:04
<ogra_>
:)
16:04
<markit>
lol, wikipedia should be fixed then adding the "direct" option
16:05
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linux_Terminal_Server_Project
16:05
<ogra_>
well, its not really somethign to recommend to the masses
16:05
<markit>
and https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/Tour
16:05
<ogra_>
imagine someone does homebanking through a browser ...
16:06
<markit>
ogra_: ? I mean, the LOCAL traffic is not encrypted
16:06
from ltsp client to ltsp server
16:06
<ogra_>
no
16:06
<markit>
then the browser is tls/ssl to the bank
16:06
<ogra_>
all X traffic is unencrypted right after you logged in
16:06
<markit>
ok, so no problem, is on local lan
16:06
hope banks have not local lan sniffed
16:07
in any case, I think is used 90% by schools
16:07
so default should be "works fine, no encryption"
16:07
instead of "very poor performances, hope you find how to disable it"
16:07* ogra_ remembers the story from this teacher who did exams on his ltsp class ... and funnily all had the same results and mistakes :P
16:08
<markit>
at least distributions should build a default lts.conf with some basic and important options there, even if remarked
16:08
<ogra_>
i wouldnt trust unencrypted in a school ... if your HW can do it, use encryption
16:08
<markit>
I would be proud of having a class that can do that, lol
16:08
<ogra_>
or dont do computer exams ;)
16:08
you wouldnt guess how clever they are ... ;)
16:09
<markit>
they must escale privileges to be able to sniff ethernet nic on teh server
16:09
switch does not broadcast traffic
16:09
so probably was a system compromised since the beginning by some student
16:09
or they saw the teacher password in the postit on the monitor ;P
16:13
<vagrantc>
or had the ability to plug a laptop in somewhere and sniff the network
16:14
<ogra_>
yeah
16:14
or through the accidentially open office wlan that the secretary maintains :)
16:15
<vagrantc>
so many choices!
16:18
<ogra_>
:)
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17:15
<vagrantc>
!seen alkisg
17:15
<ltsp`>
vagrantc: alkisg was last seen in #ltsp 20 hours, 37 minutes, and 52 seconds ago: <alkisg> 'night all
17:16
<vagrantc>
!seen gadi
17:16
<ltsp`>
vagrantc: gadi was last seen in #ltsp 2 days, 2 hours, 26 minutes, and 55 seconds ago: <Gadi> what are you installing that has a front end config tool for system files? usually those gui front ends modify the user's homedir
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17:46
<kusznir>
andygraybeal: I'm back, sorry, I got dispatched to a location 2hrs away yesterday...
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19:22
<jammcq>
pscheie: hotel knows you want a single room
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