IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 21 September 2008   (all times are UTC)

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00:31
<toastydeath>
no one?
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03:08
<Guest99314>
462
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03:49
<highvoltage>
howdy
03:49
I want to use local apps on Ubuntu, and I'm following the instructions on http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/LocalApps
03:50
I put LOCAL_APPS = Y under [Default] in my lts.conf, but ssh doesn't start up on the client
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04:58
<nubae1>
highvoltage: did u install ssh in the client chroot?
04:58
<highvoltage>
nubae1: no, I assumed it was already there (bad assumption now that I think about it)
04:58
<nubae1>
:-)
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05:03
<highvoltage>
is that the right instructions for doing local apps these days, btw?
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05:08
<Nubae>
not sure, seems quite ancient to me
05:09
some of the stuff on there is from 2005
05:09
ogra, is this still applicable?: http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/LocalApps
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05:11
<amol>
Nubae, hi
05:11
<Nubae>
hi there
05:12
<amol>
Nubae, can you tell me what should i edit in udev rules to access local harddisk?
05:13
<Nubae>
I took a look yesterday and you have to enable it in /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/udev/rules.d/50
05:13
-ltspfd.rules
05:14
its disabled there by default...
05:15
<amol>
in my system i got this file /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/udev/rules.d/50-udev.rules not ltspfd.rules
05:15
are they same?
05:15
<cyberorg>
highvoltage, http://en.opensuse.org/LTSP/Localapps at the moment it is experimental and available out of box only on suse
05:16
it is not recommended for production use
05:17
<highvoltage>
cyberorg: and will that work fnie on ubuntu as well?
05:17
<Nubae>
amol: no...
05:17
<cyberorg>
highvoltage, you will need to install firefox or whatever app you want, "running" and "how does it work" part are same for ubuntu
05:17
<Nubae>
u should have something like ltsp-rules or ltspfd-rules
05:18
<highvoltage>
well, ltsp-localapps isn't available on ubuntu :/
05:18
<Nubae>
cyberorg: a lot of stuff is ancient on that page
05:18
<cyberorg>
Nubae, http://en.opensuse.org/LTSP/Localapps is most current, except the way local apps are installed is different on suse
05:18
<Nubae>
oh, not yours... the other page :-)
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05:19
<ltsppbot>
"amol" pasted "udev files" (18 lines) at http://pastebot.ltsp.org/83
05:19
<Nubae>
here: /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/udev/rules.d/z60_ltspfsd.rules
05:19
<amol>
Nubae, i have pasted all my files what i have in udev ..there is no ltsp related rules file
05:20
Nubae, yes i got this
05:20
<Nubae>
amol ^^
05:21
you'll notice there is a line that is commented out talking about hard drives
05:21
enable it
05:22
<amol>
Nubae, thanks alot it worked..
05:23
<Nubae>
hard drives now working?
05:23
<amol>
Nubae, yes it mounted..
05:23
<Nubae>
with localdev=true in lts.conf?
05:24
<cyberorg>
amol, now put this information in a wiki somewhere so we can point anyone who asks over there :)
05:24
<amol>
Nubae, yes that line in lts.conf and uncommenting in udev it mounted
05:24
<Nubae>
ok
05:25
<amol>
cyberorg, yes surely i am having other info like how to enable 3d in client
05:25
that as well i will keep in wiki
05:25
<cyberorg>
amol, post a link to the wiki on ltsp-discuss list too
05:26
<Nubae>
and try to make it non distro specific
05:26
:-)
05:26
<amol>
surely
05:26
Nubae, cyberorg i have done implementation with 2 client
05:27
how much maximum client i can add to one ltsp server?
05:27
<cyberorg>
amol, cool :)
05:27
<Nubae>
how long is a piece of string? :-)
05:27
<amol>
cyberorg, i like to implement it in my lab
05:28
<cyberorg>
amol, 150M ram required on the server per client
05:29
<amol>
hardisk space?
05:31
<cyberorg>
amol, if your users have just office documents, 1-5G per client is enough, but if they have a lot of p**n you need lots of space ;)
05:31
<Nubae>
most important thing is if u have more clients, a gigabit network
05:31
or at least gigabit on the server
05:37
<amol>
i am having one doubt ..in workstation output of command #uname -r is 2.6.22-3-486 same as server but in default file parameter uses vmlinuz which is a link for vmlinuz-2.6.26-1-486
05:37
as well initrd points to initrd-2.6.26-1-486
05:38
why not client showing command output as 2.6.21-1-486?
05:44
<highvoltage>
when I add a password for my root user in the chroot, it says that my account has expired when I try to log in on the client
05:44
what do I need to change to enable my logon?
05:45
<amol>
highvoltage, use usermod command
05:46
<Nubae>
highvoltage: ran into that recently
05:46
need to switch root lock off
05:46
<amol>
usermod -e 31/12/2009 root
05:46
<Nubae>
like so: passwd -u root
05:46
<amol>
Nubae, this command worked for me..
05:47
usermod -e 31/12/2009 roo
05:47
<Nubae>
hes better off unlocking it, setting password
05:47
and then locking again
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05:49
<amol>
Nubae, can you tell me about my confusion over uname -r..
05:49
<Nubae>
what's wrong with this command? gpg --keyserver keyserver.ubuntu.com --send-key 1B6E1249;
05:49
amol: I didn't really understand the question
05:49
<highvoltage>
the lts.conf file comes from /var/lib/tftpboot/i386. how can I add other files that will overwrite the ones in the chroot like that?
05:50
<Nubae>
set them with X_CONF=
05:50
or something similar, let me check
05:50
<highvoltage>
thanks Nubae
05:52
<amol>
Nubae, in /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/pxelinux.cfg/default file mentioned to use vmlinuz and initrd of version 2.6.21-1-486 but still client shows it is running 2.6.22-3-486
05:53
<Nubae>
highvoltage: RCFILE_NN=/name/of/script/u/want/to/execute
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05:54
<Nubae>
but maybe thats not what u are looking for... if you are looking for files that don't need to be compressed, they must be outside the chroot... u can try and see if that command works... NN corresponds to numbers
05:54
amol: did u do ltsp-update-kernels?
05:55
<amol>
Nubae, yes
05:55
<highvoltage>
Nubae: yep, looking for files that are outside the chroot, not rc scripts, I'll let you know where it is when I find it
05:55
<amol>
Nubae, once again i will try same..
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06:08
<amol>
to add different language desktop support at time of login at workstaion LDM_LANGUAGE is sufficent or require to add anything else?
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07:57
<nubae>
hmmm, maybe ufw should be mentioned in the ltsp documentation ?
08:00
<ogra>
nubae, only for ubuntu though
08:00
:)
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08:14
<nubae>
oh, doesnt exist for other distros? shame... I love the simplicity of it
08:24
<ogra>
it might be/get into debian
08:33
<cyberorg>
nubae, check out yast2 firewall, all ports on external devices are disabled by default on suse
08:33
fedora has nice firewall gui too
08:34
<ogra>
ufw has no gui
08:34
yet
08:34
what he referst to is the ease of management with it
08:38
<nubae>
yeah it does
08:38
gufw
08:38
but I did mean ease of management of the non gui
08:38
<ogra>
oh, i didnt know about gufw :)
08:39* ogra installs to take a look
08:39
<nubae>
looks almost identical to windows protection shield thingie ;-)
08:40
<ogra>
sweet !
08:44
<nubae>
I'm gonna commit what I've got for ltsp-docs... there is probably more to add... but its finished enough to put with intrepid and co.
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08:49
<ogra>
cool
08:59
<amol>
on ltsp.org documentation is available till 4.1 version where can i get documentation about LTSP5.0??
09:00
<nubae>
in second u can download it from launchpad
09:00
hang on
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09:11
<nubae>
ogra: I'm getting something odd when trying to commit
09:11
bzr: ERROR: https://launchpad.net/%7ENubae/%2Bsshkeys is permanently redirected to https://launchpad.net/~nubae/+sshkeys
09:11
well, when trying to authenticate with launchpad
09:12
<ogra>
do you try to push to something with special http encoding in it ?
09:12
seems like you try https://launchpad.net/%7ENubae/%2Bsshkeys as push location
09:12
use https://launchpad.net/~nubae/+sshkeys
09:13
(ask in #launchpad btw)
09:13
<nubae>
where is that set?
09:13
ok...
09:18
<amol>
nubae, ogra ltsp5.0 is available on launchpad?
09:18
<ogra>
amol, it gets developed on launchpad, yes
09:23
http://launchpad.net/~ltsp-upstream
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09:30
<amol>
ogra, on this link there is no option to read or download current docs of ltsp5
09:30
<ogra>
https://launchpad.net/~ltsp-docwriters
09:31
it has a code branch you can check out with the recent docs, but wait for nubae to push the latest changes
09:31
<nubae>
ok, I pushed it
09:33
ogra, when u get a chance, let me know if it looks ok
09:45
<ogra>
"It's important to make sure that your server has good power management" is a bit confusing
09:46
probably call it "power backup facilities" or some such
09:46
or s/backup/fallback/
09:47
"Security has become a key challenge for educators" i would call them administrators to be more generic here
09:49
"This translates into higher quality code and less spy ware and viruses that plague other operating systems." ... "and no spyware and viruses like they plague " ....
09:49
i find it all over a bit to school centric for a general ltsp handbook
09:50
it should be more generalized to "administrators" though surely mention that its often used in schools and educational envs
09:50
<nubae>
ok, I'll concentrate on taking out the school specifics... I didn't think about the fact its not just for schools
09:51
<ogra>
try to generalize the flowing text on admins, but use school admins as examples ;)
09:51
<nubae>
a lot of that was taken from edubuntu handbook... which is school specific
09:51
<ogra>
yeah
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09:52
<ogra>
you sould also mention that there is indeed also paid support available for ltsp ... :)
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09:52
<nubae>
only by ubuntu though, right?
09:53
canonical even
09:53
<ogra>
i think disklessworkstations might give it ...
09:53
<nubae>
ok, I'll look up the specific places that offer it
09:53
<ogra>
and if enough users would bug redhat i bet they would get that they can make a lot of mone with it too
09:53
nah
09:53
just put in a general sentence ;)
09:54
<nubae>
ok
09:54
<ogra>
i.e. "even paid suport is available from various instances, if there is an offering of pais support for the distro you use, please contact your support facilities" .... something like that
09:55
there are some IT depts where you wont gain ground without having paid support offerings in your proposal
09:55
managers ask for it etc
09:56
so the handbook should mention it
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09:56
<ogra>
but indeed we dont want to do any direct andvertisements :)
09:57* ogra wonders what the wireless clients section is about
09:58
<nubae>
wireless clients? where did I put that :-)
09:58
<ogra>
there is no way to have wireless clients ... at least none that would be supported by us upstream
09:58
<para>There are two types of networking hardware: wired and wireless. </para>
09:58
36
09:58
09:58
36
09:58
<para>An important fact to remember is that a network will be only as fast as the slowest part. So, if you have a faster wired network but a slower wireless network, the speed to the wireless clients will be restricted by the speed of the wireless network.
09:59
<nubae>
ahh... yeah that was talking about networking in general, but I'll take wireless out, since its irrelevant
09:59
<ogra>
abnd below you explicitly explain all possible wlan options
10:00
i'd drop all that
10:00
the proxy stuff isnt really correct
10:01
you say above that by default nothing runs on the client
10:01
so why would i need a proxy to proxy the client requests ?
10:01
"A firewall can be a service on the server or a separate piece of hardware that runs a similar service" ...
10:01
i wouldnt a) mention a firewall on the server and b) say it *has* to be a separate piece of HW
10:02
<nubae>
all copied from the edubuntu handbook... I'll go over that again
10:02
<ogra>
i.e. you dont distinguish between a portblocker (teh a case) and a firewall (teh b case)
10:02
and sicne you say that theer are no open ports by default, a portblocker is moot
10:03
"Linux filesystem image via TFTP3 into a RAM disk"
10:03
whats TFTP3 ? new protocol ? :)
10:04* ogra guesses thats a typo
10:04
<nubae>
heh, yeah :-)
10:04
X4 too :-)
10:04
<ogra>
same on the next sentences
10:04
yep
10:04
and LDM5
10:04
<nubae>
heh
10:05
<ogra>
phew, thats a lot to go through, i actually dont have much time anymore today
10:05
great work though :)
10:05
<nubae>
well its a start... thanks
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10:35
<highvoltage>
howdy ogra
10:36
meant to ask you a question earlier. hope you're still around :)
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10:58
<nubae>
I need a working ip forwarding/masquerading explanation... I cannot seem to get it to work with a masquerade iptables rule and turning ipforwarding to 1
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11:06
<ogra>
nubae, http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/serverguide/C/firewall.html
11:06
highvoltage, only for a minute
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11:08
<highvoltage>
ogra: the lts.conf file that's in tftpboot/i386... can I add other files like that?
11:08
where can I specify where they must go?
11:08
(sorry for mangled question, but you only gave me a minute ;) )
11:09
<ogra>
you need to hack up the initramfs script
11:09
ltsp_nbd has the code
11:10
<highvoltage>
thanks ogra
11:10
I'll go check it out
11:10
it would be nicer if you could have a directory structer under i386 that would be overlayed, imho
11:19
<ogra>
well, its pretty insecure to allow random files to be overwritten imho
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11:24
<cyberorg>
highvoltage, we do something like this for live CD clients http://pastebin.com/d4a91a34f
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11:59
<highvoltage>
cyberorg: thanks for that, I'll take a look at it tomorrow (just on my way out)
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14:03
<harpoon1>
i've installed LTSP on hardy ubuntu, and when i boot the client, I get a 'FATAL: kernel too old' error... any ideas?
14:04
<stgraber>
did you install ubuntu 32 or 64bit on the server ?
14:04
<harpoon1>
32
14:04
<stgraber>
ok, so that's not the issue. How old are you thin clients ?
14:04
*your
14:05
<harpoon1>
toshiba laptop, statellite 2100CDT ( pretty old )
14:06
<stgraber>
ok, that's amd-k6 according to toshiba
14:07
<harpoon1>
should it work on amd-k6?
14:07
<stgraber>
I'm not familiar with that CPU but maybe it doesn't have the 486 instruction set which you need for Ubuntu
14:07
so the question is: is it 386 or 486 ?
14:07
<harpoon1>
i'll try booting from hardy live cd... if it boots from this live cd, should it work as a LTSP client?
14:08
<stgraber>
yes
14:08
https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Installation/SystemRequirements
14:08
look at the "absolute minimum" section of that page
14:08
<harpoon1>
ok... attempting to boot hardy now...
14:09
but I thought ubuntu did not run on the client... I thought the client just acted as a thin X clent...
14:10
<stgraber>
you have to boot a minimal system in order to spawn the X server
14:10
so it boots a minimal Ubuntu then connect to the server
14:12
<harpoon1>
I just got this snippet from your link above: If you are intending to use a computer as a thin client (such as a client for an Edubuntu LTSP Terminal Server), only a low-specification computer capable of displaying graphics and connecting to a network is required.
14:12
my laptop can display graphics and connect to network, but I get this FATAL: kernal too old...
14:13
<stgraber>
"displaying graphics" here means: starting a X server to display graphics
14:14
for that you need to boot the kernel first
14:14
<harpoon1>
I had to mkdir /opt/ltsp/i386/oldroot ... this directory was not created during config... perhaps I should not have added this directory and it is causing the 'kernel too old' error? This error appears just after the root_pivot message
14:14
<ogra>
!ubuntu
14:14
<ltspbot`>
ogra: "ubuntu" is a Debian based GNU/Linux distrubution that includes a Ubuntu specific version of LTSP. It can be found at http://www.ubuntulinux.org. to install ltsp on ubuntu: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/LTSPQuickInstall
14:15
<ogra>
harpoon1, did you follow the installation instructions (teh 2nd link)
14:15
<harpoon1>
yes, I followed those instructions...
14:16
<ogra>
and you didnt have the /opt/ltsp/i386/i386 dir after running ltsp-build-client ?
14:16
err
14:16
and you didnt have the /opt/ltsp/i386 dir after running ltsp-build-client ?
14:17
<harpoon1>
yes, I had a /opt/ltsp/i386 dir after running ltsp-build-client
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14:17
<ogra>
and your laptop properly recieves the kernel through PXE/etherboot ?
14:18
(i.e. are you 100% sure its the kernel used in ltsp that it is trying to boot)
14:18
<harpoon1>
I used the ltsp-wireless package/boot floppy... ( Pcmcia network card )
14:18* ogra has no idea what package that might be
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14:18
<ogra>
sounds like something that was built for ltsp 4.x
14:19
we surely dont have *any* wireless support in recent ltsp
14:19
<harpoon1>
any way to boot from a pcmcia card?
14:19
<ogra>
no
14:20
<harpoon1>
i'm using ltsp5... perhaps the boot floppy i've created is not compatible with 5?
14:20
<ogra>
thats what i said above
14:20
there is no bootfloppy thats compatible with ltsp5
14:21
and apparently the floppy you use is not even compatible with your hardware
14:21
<harpoon1>
seems to get a dhcp address though... ( and mounts the root nfs )
14:21
can I use a boot cd?
14:22
<ogra>
the rom-o-matic etherboot floppies work with ltsp5 but there are no pcmcia cards that are supported to my knowledge
14:22
there is no nfs root in ltsp5 in ubuntu
14:22
it uses nbd images by default
14:22
so its unlikely that it mounts any nfs root unless you hacked it up
14:22
<harpoon1>
I setup nfs with /etc/exports
14:23
If I want to use wireless laptops with ltsp5, is there some kind of boot image/CD/flash?
14:23
<ogra>
no
14:24
neither for pcmcia nor for wlan
14:24
<harpoon1>
ok
14:24
<ogra>
get a PXE capable card or one thats supported by rom-o-matic through the etherboot disks
14:25
there are options for CDs on rom-o-matic though ... but i havent seen any pcmcia cards supported there ever
14:25
<harpoon1>
i assume most newer laptops have PXE capable cards...
14:25
<ogra>
right
14:25
wireless is another tricky thing, as you need the wireless stack installed locally, encryption being set up right etc
14:26
nobody implemented that ever in ltsp5 ... (though patches would be hapily accepted :) )
14:26
<harpoon1>
roger
14:26
i'm setting up a classroom...
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14:27
<toastydeath>
has anyone installed ltsp over a single system image cluster
14:27
<ogra>
for nfs you also need more changes then just setting up the server btw ...
14:27
https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/LTSPWithoutNFS
14:27
^^^ has the info
14:29* ogra goes afk again to enjoy the rest of his sunday night :)
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14:46
<vagrantc>
toastydeath: what do you mean?
14:46
toastydeath: i've used LTSP to install OSes before
14:46
<harpoon1>
I was planning on using KDE4.1.1... does Gnome take up less resources on the server? Each client will be running Firefox and OpenOffice...
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14:49
<vagrantc>
both firefox and openoffice take up a lot of resources ... KDE or GNOME will probably not make a huge difference.
14:49
<harpoon1>
Got it. ( java )
14:49
<vagrantc>
xubuntu would make some difference
14:49
<harpoon1>
thanks
14:49
<vagrantc>
(if you're using ubuntu)
14:50
<harpoon1>
I need to lock down each client like a kiosk... is there an util to lock down Xubuntu or IceWM??
14:50
<vagrantc>
harpoon1: you want to restrict it to just openoffice and firefox?
14:51
<harpoon1>
students will be using these clients... I want to prevent them from changing system settings, and hopfully just allow them to use Firefox and OpenOffice as usual...
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14:52
<vagrantc>
i don't know of tools to lock them down ... i've used some hacks in the past to mostly lock down icewm
14:52
mainly, making the ~/.icewm* configuration files not writeable by the user
14:52
<harpoon1>
ok
14:53
<vagrantc>
someone who knows what they're doing could easily delete the ~/.icewm* files, but it was pretty effective at preventing most configuration
14:53
or, preventing most users from messing with it
14:54
at freegeek, we have a script which daily resets the logins to a known state
14:54
<harpoon1>
I hear KDE4 has a smaller footprint... and I can use the Kiosk tool to lock things down... pehaps I'll try this... Java will eat up much ram on the server, but I plan on having 150MB ram for each client...
14:55
<vagrantc>
150MB on the server for each expected concurrent user?
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14:57
<harpoon1>
yes...
14:57
is that enought?
15:01
<toastydeath>
vagrantc:
15:02
i meant installing ltsp over a single system image cluster, like openmosix or openSSI
15:02
n computers set up to behave as one, large multicore machine
15:03
like a rack of blades or a bunch of 1u servers
15:03
<vagrantc>
toastydeath: it's definitely been done
15:03
<toastydeath>
does it behave well?
15:03
<vagrantc>
toastydeath: i don't know of folks using it in production
15:03
<toastydeath>
oh
15:04
<vagrantc>
and i think less of a rack of servers and more of a bunch of thin-clients ...
15:04
might work better if it was really just a clever way to do large multi-core systems
15:04
<toastydeath>
vagrantc: i think we are miscommunicating here
15:05
<vagrantc>
toastydeath: well, i know what openmosix is.
15:05
toastydeath: you're talking about doing clustering, no?
15:05
<toastydeath>
i am
15:05
clustering such that the ltsp machine is scalable by adding more nodes to it
15:05
<vagrantc>
toastydeath: just the server-side LTSP, right?
15:06
<toastydeath>
correct
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15:06
<vagrantc>
i recall a presentation on using openSSI to do that, but i forget who
15:07
<harpoon1>
i'm curious to find out why booting over wirless is not avaialble... could I not use any old live CD to boot and then perform the root_pivot and the rest of the script proceedures found in ltsp client?
15:07
<vagrantc>
harpoon1: go right ahead and try.
15:07
harpoon1: but it isn't supported out of the box.
15:07
<toastydeath>
ty vagrantc
15:07
i will hunt around for that
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15:07
<vagrantc>
toastydeath: possibly a post to the ltsp-developer list
15:08
<harpoon1>
vagrantc: will I be surpirsed to find out it is not simple?? I''m no linux expert:(
15:09
<vagrantc>
harpoon1: it is harder than you would expect.
15:09
<harpoon1>
ok.
15:10
which part is tricky?
15:10
<vagrantc>
ah, it was mille-xterm that was the clustered LTSP stuff http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/9097
15:10
ah, toastydeath is gone
15:11
!wireless
15:11
<ltspbot`>
vagrantc: "wireless" is http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/WirelessLtsp
15:11
<vagrantc>
harpoon1: read up on that ^^
15:11
<harpoon1>
ok
15:12
<vagrantc>
if it's an open wireless network, it'd probably be easier to set up a boot CD... but whenever you updated the kernel, you'd have to update the boot CD
15:12
and you'd have to tweak the initramfs hooks to include wireless tools and such
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15:14
<harpoon1>
thanks for the info... the issues seem to be related to getting the wireless connection established... if I use a modified version of liveCd which can connect to a wireless network, is the rest of the LTSP/scripts complex, or is it just a matter of running them to pivot_root
15:15
<vagrantc>
harpoon1: well, where exactly are you talking about doing pivot_root ?
15:16
the other way to do it, which wouldn't require updating the boot media as much, would be to use kexec ... so boot off the CD with a kernel and initramfs image, which then downloads the kernel and initramfs image off the network and executes that
15:16
<harpoon1>
the ltsp actions which result in the client being mounted to the server... ( the scripts which are run on the client to switch root from ram to the root on the server )
15:16
<vagrantc>
harpoon1: "client being mounted to the server" ??
15:17
<harpoon1>
the client root mounts to the server /opt/ltsp/i386 as root...
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23:49
<nelf>
anybody know what happened to the ltsp website?
23:51
<vagrantc>
that doesn't look so good
23:51
wiki's borked too
23:54
<nelf>
yup.. and google doesn't have the wiki's cache.. hope they fix it soon
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