IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 20 April 2009   (all times are UTC)

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05:36
<NeonLicht>
is there a way to stop virtual graphical consoles (CTR-ALT-F7, F8, F9, etc.) to pop up when they ge updated by the servers (mostly rdesktop conections to Windows boxes) they point to. It's annoying to my boss and co-workers to get a different "box" to show up while working on another one. I don't experience this problem myself, since I only use ldm to run on the LTSP server.
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06:28
<NeonLicht>
Is there a way to stop virtual graphical consoles (CTR-ALT-F7, F8, F9, etc.) to pop up when they ge updated by the servers (mostly rdesktop conections to Windows boxes) they point to? It's annoying to my boss and co-workers to get a different "box" to show up while working on another one. I don't experience this problem myself, since I only use ldm to run on the LTSP server.
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08:30
<NeonLicht>
Is there a way to stop virtual graphical consoles (CTR-ALT-F7, F8, F9, etc.) to pop up when they ge updated by the servers (mostly rdesktop conections to Windows boxes) they point to? It's annoying to my boss and co-workers to get a different "box" to show up while working on another one. I don't experience this problem myself, since I only use ldm to run on the LTSP server.
08:34
<Gadi>
NeonLicht: write a wrapper script to rdesktop that runs it in a while loop, then edit the screen script to call your wrapper script
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08:36
<jammcq>
good morning #ltsp
08:36* ogra waves
08:36
<NeonLicht>
thanks, Gadi
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09:23
<Blinny>
Morning!
09:25
Much has been made of the increased hardware reqs. for going from LTSP4.2 to 5 - what about thin client requirements when upgrading from Hardy to Intrepid, or Jaunty? I haven't been able to find a definitive client spec requirements for these sorts of upgrades.
09:28
<NeonLicht>
Gadi, is the while loop solution the only one?
09:29
<vagrantc>
Blinny: shouldn't be huge...
09:33
<Gadi>
NeonLicht: yup
09:33
WTS drops idle connections after a period of time
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09:33
<Gadi>
which causes the rdesktop to exit
09:34
without a loop, X will exit
09:34
and respawn
09:34
and grab focus
09:34
hence your issue
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09:35
<NeonLicht>
I see, Gadi, thanks
09:35
<alkisg>
NeonLicht: there's a setting in the windows terminal server manager where you can specify that you don't want a timeout
09:35
<cyberorg>
hi vagrantc Gadi et all :)
09:36
<NeonLicht>
really, alkisg? that will make it, I think :-)
09:36
<alkisg>
Can't remember where, but I'm 100% sure I've used that setting 1.5 years ago
09:36
<Gadi>
alkisg: I dont think that's correct
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09:36
<Gadi>
you can control the timeout of active sessions
09:36
but not the timeout of idling at the login screen
09:37
<vagrantc>
cyberorg: hi
09:37
<NeonLicht>
let see if I can find that, alkisg, since I'm not really familiar wth Windows anymore (I sopted using it on 1999)
09:37
<alkisg>
Gadi, I've actually used that setting and didn't have disconnections anymore
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09:38
<Gadi>
hmm... great tip if its true
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09:38* Gadi waves to cyberorg
09:39
<lucy->
anyone still using LTSP 4.2
09:39
or have much knowledge about it
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09:40
<Gadi>
lucy, please 'splain
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09:44
<Blinny>
vagrantc: Thanks.
09:47
<ogra>
Blinny, hardy to intrepid/jaunty should have dropped wrt client ram reqs
09:47
the kernel uses compcache by default for the latter two and adds virtual swapspace that way
09:48
a minimal setup without localdev, sound and localapps should actually work with less than 64M on them
09:49
for std. setups the same sizing as for hardy applies ...
09:49
for localapps setups it totally depends on what apps you use but i wouldnt start with less than 256M
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09:54
<chrisjrob>
trying to get rdesktop working on ltsp5, does it still require screen scripts?
09:54
<NeonLicht>
alkisg, do you remenber where this "windows terminal server manager" might be? Any clue for me to find it, pleae?
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09:55
<alkisg>
NeonLicht: No, sorry, it's been a very long time since I've last used it.
09:55
<NeonLicht>
ok, alkisg, thank you, anyways :-)
09:56
<vagrantc>
chrisjrob: SCREEN_NN=rdesktop ... where NN is some number between 01-10, depending on your distro.
09:57
<NeonLicht>
My boss is about to buy a PC and stop using his thin client and LTSP 'cause he's annoyed by that shit, haha
09:57
<Blinny>
ogra: Sweet, thank you.
09:57
<chrisjrob>
thanks vagrantc. we're using debian lenny. i had tried that and it just keeps flashing.
09:58
<Blinny>
Nice work, all.
09:58
Any big known dangers in upgrading?
09:59
<vagrantc>
chrisjrob: you also need to specify some rdesktop values, i think ... Gadi would know
10:00
<chrisjrob>
thanks vagrantc, at least i know i'm doing the right thing - i just need to dig deeper!
10:01
<vagrantc>
chrisjrob: for debian, i'd recommend SCREEN_07
10:01
<alkisg>
NeonLicht, if you don't find it, remind me tomorrow, I think I have a windows 2008 server installation in a VM somewhere, I can look for it...
10:02
<vagrantc>
chrisjrob: as 01-06 are still taken by the default gettys
10:02
<NeonLicht>
I have no clue as where to find it, alkisg, I'm looking for it on a Win2003 server, but I cannot find anything which sems related to it
10:03
<alkisg>
NeonLicht: in the administrative tools you should be able to find the terminal services manager, I think it's somewhere there.
10:04
<chrisjrob>
vagrantc: i am using 07, which works fine on our etch server, but our new lenny server is proving more stubborn,
10:04
<NeonLicht>
ok, alkisg, I find that one, but I cannot find any time out option anywere there
10:05
<alkisg>
OK, will look tomorrow.
10:06
<vagrantc>
chrisjrob: you have RDP_SERVER set?
10:06
<NeonLicht>
thanks a lot, alkisg, I hope I can avoid this anoying behaviour before people go back to Windows PCs here :(
10:07
<chrisjrob>
vagrantc: i've tried with and without, currently without - am now re-adding plus RDP_OPTIONS
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10:08
<alkisg>
NeonLicht: well a loop in a script like Gadi told you will surely fix the problem. I'll look for the option, but not today, I'm uploading something to my PPA for the first time...
10:09
<NeonLicht>
ok, alkisg, thanks a lot... I'll try to see if I can understand the loop thing and get it done (I'm not a coder) for now
10:09
<chrisjrob>
vagrantc: i must be mistyped previously, as it's working now fine. sorry to have bothered you and thanks for your help!
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10:23
<chrisjrob>
vagrantc: my problem seems to be related to the RDP_OPTIONS. it's happy with all my options except for "-n CLIENTHOSTNAME", whereon it returns to flashing again.
10:29
<Gadi>
bad hostname?
10:30
chrisjrob: keep in mind, WTS uses hostname as part of its check for licenses to ahnd out
10:30
*hand
10:30
'specially if it is handing out device licenses
10:31
<chrisjrob>
Gadi: good thought, i will test with some others.
10:31
<Gadi>
trying running rdesktop with that -n option from another computer, and you may get better error messaging
10:35
<chrisjrob>
Gadi: yes you were right, it was rejecting that specific hostname; never considered that the issue might be at the server end!
10:35
<Gadi>
:)
10:35
<lucy->
anyone still using LTSP 4.2
10:35
<Gadi>
lucy-: whats your question?
10:36
or are you taking a census?
10:36
:)
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10:53
<lucy->
Gadi, I know how to install a driver in ltsp4.2.
10:53
I asked that they all know that only the 5
10:55
<Gadi>
you want to know *how* to install a driver in 4.2?
10:55
what kind of driver?
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10:57
<lucy->
has no method for all drivers?
10:57
is a driver for biometric reader
10:58
<Gadi>
well, no - installing a network driver is very different than installing a video driver
10:59
is the biometric driver a kernel module?
10:59
if so, you need to compile it against the kernel you are using
10:59
<ogra>
with the toolchain used in the client chroot
11:00
<Gadi>
yup
11:00
<ogra>
(preferably)
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11:03
<lucy->
must install the driver, but I think it is just load the module.
11:03
But how can I compile the same kernel LTSP?
11:04
<vagrantc>
compiling kernels is *much* easier in LTSP
11:05
<Gadi>
http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/LTSP-42#ltsp_kernel_kit
11:05
<ogra>
vagrantc, ?? lucy- is talking about ltsp4 :)
11:05
nothing is *much easier* in ltsp4
11:06
<vagrantc>
i know
11:07* vagrantc wonders if people will still be asking about ltsp 4.x a decade from now...
11:07
<ogra>
lol
11:07* ogra hopes it will be gone from all servers by then
11:07
<cyberorg>
vagrantc, may be, decade old hardware die hard :)
11:09
<ogra>
cyberorg, so fix ltsp5 to support it instead of letting people use software that has a pile of secrurity holes like a swiss cheese
11:10
<cyberorg>
ogra, they don't compile distros < i586 any more
11:10
<ogra>
ubuntu has a kernel compiled with m486
11:10
<lucy->
The fault is not mine, I wanted to use 5 but my client uses 4.2
11:10
<ogra>
its in universe and not well maintained but its there
11:11
(we used to use it by default in ubuntus first few ltsp5 releases)
11:11
<cyberorg>
ogra, that may disappear much before ltsp 4 :)
11:11
<ogra>
i hope not
11:11
4 starts becoming a risk
11:12
<cyberorg>
i ran into issue with our kernel in the beginning, then i had to add glibc.i586 to make our image boot on some low end via thin clients
11:12
<ogra>
security wont get better with age
11:12
software isnt like wine ;)
11:13
<lucy->
Is to compile a module pro LTSP 4.2?
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11:16
<lucy->
???
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11:17
<cyberorg>
lucy-, Gadi already posted this http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/LTSP-42#ltsp_kernel_kit for you
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11:24
<lucy->
is really necessary to compile a kernel?
11:25
cyberorg, is really necessary to compile a kernel?
11:27
<cyberorg>
lucy-, no, but if your driver is kernel module you will have to compile that in chroot
11:31
<lucy->
cyberorg, with kernel kit I can chroot without compile the kernel?
11:32
<cyberorg>
lucy-, i don't know much about ltsp 4
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11:33* vagrantc notes that debian still supports i486
11:33
<vagrantc>
though i haven't tested it in a while
11:34
<lucy->
nobody knows !!!
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11:36
<vagrantc>
lucy-: ltsp 4 hasn't been developed for 4 years now, so the people who know much about it are fewer and fewer
11:36
maybe even longer
11:37
<Gadi>
uh, in ltsp 4.2 you of course need to compile the kernel
11:37
you need the kernel headers
11:37
against which to make your kernel module
11:37
<lucy->
I just needed to compile the kernel module in a kernel consistent
11:39
<Gadi>
sure
11:40
these are not LTSP things but fundamental Linux things
11:40
you want to load your module in a kernel running on a computer (the client, in this case)
11:41
for the kernel to accept it, it needs to be compiled against that kernel's headers with the appropriate version of gcc and friends
11:41
LTSP 4.2 pushes back some old kernel 2.6.x.x
11:41
choices:
11:41
1. download that kernel
11:41
and compile your module against it with the same gcc as LTSP 4.2
11:42
<lucy->
vangrand I know he has a 4 years, but how can anyone know, until Jim showed no willingness to help me
11:42
<Gadi>
2. download the kernel kit
11:42
which has all of the pieces to do the same
11:48
<lucy->
wanted to load the module running the client, but
11:48
how do I add the module to the kernel is compiling a new kernel with kit
11:49
<Gadi>
lucy-: you only have the kernel binary
11:49
to compile a module against a kernel, you need either the kernel header or the kernel source
11:49
thats why you need to use the kit
11:49
to get the kernel source
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11:58
<lucy->
Gadi, then need to compile a kernel I can use like any other on the server, compile the module, then load the kernel module in LTSP?
11:59
<Gadi>
if the kernel that you send to the thin client is, say : /var/lib/tftpboot/lts/2.6.19xxxx
11:59
then, you need to compile kernel 2.6.19xxxx
12:00
and then make your module against that kernel
12:00
then, once you have your module, you can copy it into the chroot: /opt/ltsp/i386/lib/modules/2.6.19xxxx/...
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12:01
<Gadi>
chroot into the chroot
12:01
run depmod on it to refresh its modules.dep
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12:01
<Gadi>
then, you should be able to set: MODULE_01=myModuleName
12:01
in lts.conf
12:01
and have it load on boot
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12:02* Gadi is not even going to ask how you plan to handle the biometric data once you get this working :)
12:05
<lucy->
no,
12:08
Gadi, compile the kernel 2.6xx to use the normal distribution?
12:09
<Gadi>
well, the kit will have the config file that LTSP uses
12:09
but, it mostly shouldn't matter, so long as you have the headers that your module needs
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12:33
<lucy->
Gadi, there is a "how to" for this?
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13:04
<_UsUrPeR_>
stgraber: pong
13:04
<stgraber>
_UsUrPeR_: yup, saw your answer, I'll look at it as soon as I've fixed something for the QA team
13:05
<_UsUrPeR_>
ok, cool. thanks
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13:35
<rjune_>
!seen davidj
13:35
<ltspbot>
rjune_: davidj was last seen in #ltsp 4 days, 0 hours, 20 minutes, and 54 seconds ago: <davidj> rjune
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13:55
<jrock2004>
I am running off an ltsp ubuntu and notice that the right click is very slow
13:55
the other part like surfing is fine. It is right clicking and dropdown menus. Any ideas?
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14:23
<jrock2004>
can I update the ltsp build client while it is in use?
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14:53
<Guest26620>
d
14:53
<ogra>
e
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14:57
<alkisg>
f
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15:08
<droalt>
hi guys
15:09* nubae wonders how Oracle buying Sun will affect Open Source
15:09
<droalt>
I am running an intrepid ltsp server, modified the lts.conf to automatically connect to server 2003 TS, everything works great except for audio
15:10
<nubae>
2003 TS = windows?
15:10
<droalt>
yes
15:11
<nubae>
well, the audio part is windows specifc then
15:11
<droalt>
when i rdesktop directly from the intrepid ltsp server to the windows 2003 ts, audio works great
15:12
but it does not work from any of the ltsp clients
15:13
<nubae>
so u mean on a linux desktop
15:13
?
15:14
<jrock2004>
if I chroot and install an app do I need to run anything so I can see it on my thiin client?
15:14
<nubae>
can u check dmesg for errors?
15:14
jrock2004: u need to rebuild image
15:14
jrock2004: u mean for localapps?
15:14
<droalt>
ok let me explain better nubae
15:14
<jrock2004>
nubae: well I am having issues in the client build with firefox
15:15
nubae: so I chroot into my ltsp build image and did a sudo apt-get install opera
15:15
<nubae>
wait a minute
15:15
jrock2004: this is regular ltsp? localapps? fatclient?
15:15
<jrock2004>
ltsp server
15:16
<nubae>
then why are u installing anything in the chroot?
15:16
<jrock2004>
on my ltsp server I did sudo chroot /opt/ltsp/i386
15:16
<nubae>
all apps are installed on the server
15:16
<droalt>
from the ltsp-server, which is ubuntu intrepid, I can rdestop to the windows 2003 TS and audio works. When I pxe/ltsp boot a a client and use rdesktop to connect to the windows 2003 TS audio does not work
15:16
<jrock2004>
nubae: so then how does the thin client see it
15:16
nubae: ltsp-update-image?
15:16
<nubae>
jrock2004: thats the meaning of 'thin'... it is just a connection to the server
15:17
imagine, if u will that u have an extra keyboard, mouse and monitor connected to your ltsp server
15:17
the client does nothing except make a connection to the server
15:17
everything runs on the server
15:17
so if u want to install opera
15:17
just install it on the server
15:18
droalt: right, its still got to do with windows... the specifc audio hardware on that thin client probably is not being recognised by windows
15:18
<droalt>
from the ltsp-server, which is ubuntu intrepid, I can rdestop to the windows 2003 TS and audio works. When I pxe/ltsp boot a a client and use rdesktop to connect to the windows 2003 TS audio does not work
15:19
the ltsp server and ltsp client are the exact same box
15:19
<nubae>
hmmm
15:19
<droalt>
i am running a small scale test for troubleshooting
15:19
<nubae>
thats odd then
15:19
very odd
15:19
<droalt>
both dell's, exact same model
15:19
and they are full desktops
15:19
<nubae>
do u get audio with other apps?
15:20
<ogra>
i think there is a trick for sound on ltsp clients with rdesktop, gadi might know
15:20
<nubae>
ie, connect via ldm and run something with audio
15:20
<droalt>
yes, I installed intrepid on both and both had audio
15:20
i installed xp on both (yuck) and both had audio
15:20
<nubae>
yeah like ogra says, must have to do with the rdesktop connection
15:21
<droalt>
you have to do -r sound:local:alsa
15:21
<nubae>
wait for Gadi to come online, and ask him, he's the rdesktop guru
15:21
<ogra>
gadi has reciepes for all these rdesktop issues
15:21
<droalt>
but remember guys
15:21
audio works from the ltsp-server itself
15:21
using the same rdesktop command
15:21
<ogra>
no, you need to redirect to the pulse server
15:21
alsa is taken by it
15:21
<droalt>
ok redirec to the pulse server...ok lost me lol but thats what i was thinking
15:22
<ogra>
(pulse is running on the client)
15:22
<droalt>
so instead of alsa try to use pulse?
15:22
or I guess I could wait for gadi lol
15:22
<ogra>
yeah
15:22
<droalt>
he on during the day or night?
15:22
<ogra>
he is best with rdesktop issues
15:22
us eastern
15:23
<droalt>
cool, so he probably left 20 minutes ago, darn
15:23
<ogra>
pretty exactly 26min ago :)
15:24
<droalt>
well I'll have to catch him in the morning then
15:24
ty guys for your help
15:24
i love ltsp
15:25
took me a couple weeks to make it work on intrepid with a single nic and still have internet
15:25
<nubae>
so say we all
15:25
:-)
15:25
<droalt>
this is a paranoid question
15:25
I have disabled dhcp on the ltsp server, and am letting windows hand out the boot options and dhcp
15:25
<jrock2004>
nubae: do I have to do anything special after installing the app on the server
15:25
<nubae>
nope
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15:26
<nubae>
just make sure u get rid of firefox in the client, that'll probably give u problems
15:26
<droalt>
every guide that i read says to create a reservation in the windows dhcp server for each lstp client
15:26
but I didn't, i just changed the default scope with the boot options and everything has been working fine
15:26
<jrock2004>
nubae: well the only issue I have with firfox is the right clicking and clicking on drop downs being slow
15:27
<nubae>
jrock2004: that could be due to many things, I doubt its firefox's fault though
15:27
<droalt>
nubae: basically is it wrong to let windows hand out dhcp and boot options for ltsp clients and put them in the same range as non ltsp clients?
15:28
<nubae>
nope, I dont see why it would be
15:28
<jrock2004>
nubae: any ideas or where would I go to find out
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15:28
<Trey__>
ok maybe repeat your answe sorry
15:28
<alkisg>
droalt: stgraber in jaunty also added support for another dhcp client in the chroot, one that respects the dhcp leases. You may look into it if you like.
15:29
Because ipconfig doesn't :(
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15:29
<stgraber>
droalt: just apt-get install udhcpc in the chroot, then do update-initramfs -u
15:29
and you'll get it
15:29
<nubae>
jrock2004: Really not sure... first, find out if u get the same issue on the serve
15:29
server
15:30
<Trey__>
why would I want to use stgraber
15:30
<---droalt, i got disconnected lol
15:30
<jrock2004>
nubae: I do not get it on the server
15:30
<nubae>
hah
15:30* nubae uses a stgraber for ltsp
15:30
<alkisg>
Hehe!
15:30
<Trey__>
lol
15:30
exit
15:31
what is a stgraber
15:31
<alkisg>
It's a ...person :)
15:31
<ogra>
nubae, that stgraber is also helpful on other things ... he is like a swiss knife ;)
15:31
<Trey__>
lol oh you're joking with me lol
15:31
funny
15:31* ogra used an stgraber on the ubuntu isotracker today :)
15:31
<Trey__>
lol
15:32
<ogra>
fixed all my issues immediately
15:32
<Trey__>
ok what would i use udhcpc for?
15:32
<nubae>
yep the personal stgraber knife, especially useful for ltsp, clustering and ubuntu problems ;-)
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15:32
<Trey__>
ok it's a thin client dhclient
15:32
i am not having any problems with dhcp :P
15:33
nubae: whats the name of the guy I need to talk to tomorrow?
15:33
gadi?
15:33
<nubae>
yep
15:33
<Trey__>
ty guys have a goodnight
15:33
<jrock2004>
nubae: how do I use or contact stgraber
15:33
<alkisg>
Trey__: padsp is for redirecting pulseaudio
15:35
<stgraber>
:)
15:35
<jrock2004>
stgraber: so you are the person who might be able to help me :)
15:35
<stgraber>
sounds like it
15:37
<jrock2004>
stgraber: firefox via a remote session is having issues where right click or clicking on a dropdown takes 5 seconds to load
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15:39
<jrock2004>
stgraber: I wondering if this could be java related
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15:46
<stgraber>
jrock2004: it's known and reported, it's a libxcb bug IIRC
15:47
https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libxcb/+bug/277069
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15:57
<jrock2004>
stgraber: well I just installed opera and now that works fine. So I might just switch to that instead of firefox
16:10
<nubae>
hmmm, its release day for ubuntu? should I update edubuntu.org?
16:14
<stgraber>
nubae: it'll be on thursday
16:15
<nubae>
ah ok, cool, good to know :-)
16:16
I'll get the pages ready then
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18:22
<Ahmuck>
release day is on thursday?!
18:22
i didn't think it was till the end of the week
18:32* vagrantc doesn't expect a release for another 18 months at the very least
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19:17
<rjune_>
davidj: you around?
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19:36
<Ahmuck>
rjune u still in KC?
19:59* rjune_ has never been to KC in his life.
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20:07
<rjune_>
LOL, I'm not allowed to go to the store after exercise anymore
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