IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 24 September 2010   (all times are UTC)

00:14* johnny looks for alkisg
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00:31
<muppis>
johnny, do you have somekind summoning abilities?
00:35
<johnny>
Cue fully-integrated, seamless local caching nameserver support for NetworkManager 0.8.2. If you have dnsmasq installed and set the “dns=dnsmasq” key in your /etc/NetworkManager/NetworkManager.conf file then you’re all set. Distros can enable this by default, which we’ll be doing in Fedora 15 and later. Now you’ll get a local caching nameserver that will also do split DNS when you’re connected to a VPN, so that queries for resources on the
00:35
sweet!
00:36
alkisg, hah :) check these timestamps
00:36
[01:14] * johnny looks for alkisg
00:36
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00:36
<alkisg>
Good morning people. Hey johnny, could you dance and bring sun on the weekend so that we can go swiming? :D
00:36
<johnny>
alkisg, http://blogs.gnome.org/dcbw/2010/09/23/dont-try-to-run-honey/ that's the actual link
00:37
we need the sun :)
00:37
you can't steal it from us
00:37
this is our bookfair weekend
00:37
so.. we need all the sund we can get !
00:37
it might thunderstorm on sunday ..
00:37
:(
00:38
so.. sorry.. no sun for you this weekend
00:38
ask me next weekend :)
00:38
hah
00:38
alkisg, anyways, i thought you might find that link interesting
00:38
<alkisg>
We should really make an ltsp-server-dnsmasq package :)
00:39
Let's nag vagrantc until he does :D
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02:05
<gnunux>
hi
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04:27
<invito>
Anybody got the parameter: LDM_LIMIT_ONE_SESSION=True , to work? if i log on at 2 clients with the same username, one of them gets thrown out of session.
04:27
<alkisg>
That's what it's supposed to do..
04:28
<invito>
Ok, but i would like that if the user already is logged on, no one else can use that username on a other client, because then the first login will get thrown out
04:29
<alkisg>
There's no such functionality out of the box in ltsp
04:29
<invito>
hmm, okay
04:29
<alkisg>
You can use LDM_LIMIT_ONE_SESSION_PROMPT=True to get a dialog box
04:29
<ogra>
would make a good wishlist bug though :)
04:29
<alkisg>
So you'll know that someone is logged on somewhere else
04:29
But if you choose to continue logging in, then you'll throw the other person out
04:30
<invito>
yea:) okay , ill try that one.
04:30
<alkisg>
If you want it to act like you said, you just need to modify that dialog code so that it always returns "false" :)
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05:08
<invito>
you mean to LDM_LIMIT_ONE_SESSION_PROMPT=False ?
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05:39
<alkisg>
Yes
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05:57
<tuxbrother>
hello
05:58
anyone has expirience with Ubuntu LTSP?
05:58
<muppis>
We are all Kosh. ;)
05:59
<biomorph>
tuxbrother: Yes.
05:59
<muppis>
tuxbrother, ofcourse. Just ask
05:59
<tuxbrother>
nice :)
05:59
We used ubuntu 9.10 without problems
05:59
but since we upgraded to 10.04 LTS, it´s like a hell
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06:00
<tuxbrother>
the alternate installer fails with the automated ltsp install: building client chroot failed
06:01
manual building works, but it is slower the a 56K internet connection
06:01
*on the client
06:02
another problem is that is doesn't have an internet connection,
06:02
<invito>
alkisg: False gets both logged in at the same time, True gives no warning popup
06:02
<tuxbrother>
and yes, we are using 2 NIC's, one to the internet, one to the internal network
06:02
<alkisg>
invito: no I didn't mean to change lts.conf. I meant to change the code of the script.
06:03
I.e. programming, not configuring.
06:03
<invito>
oh okay, not an expert in that. But thanks
06:03
<alkisg>
It's just shell commands. OK
06:04
<biomorph>
tuxbrother: OK lets step back a second. You upgraded from 9.10 to 10.04? Or you reinstalled from scratch on 10.04?
06:04
<tuxbrother>
reinstalled from scrath
06:05
*scratch
06:05
<alkisg>
tuxbrother: the log of the installer would help. Also, you can use the alternate cdrom as an apt source when calling ltsp-build-client from an already installed system.
06:06
<tuxbrother>
how do I view the log of the installer?
06:06
<alkisg>
alt+ctrl+f3 or some other vt, and check /var/log or something like that
06:07
(while installing, that is...)
06:07
<tuxbrother>
but nevermind, I have a set up Ubuntu 10.04
06:07
first, I want to make a try to fix it now
06:07
<alkisg>
(02:05:40 PM) ... Also, you can use the alternate cdrom as an apt source when calling ltsp-build-client from an already installed system.
06:07
<tuxbrother>
I didn't done that
06:07
is that wrong?
06:08
<alkisg>
No, it isn't
06:08
It's just a way to install an ltsp chroot without using the internet
06:08
<tuxbrother>
got it
06:08
<alkisg>
Because you said it doesn't have an internet connection or it is slow
06:09
<tuxbrother>
that's right
06:09
but I have spent tomorrow 2 hours in downloading updates
06:09
if I reinstall it, I must do that again
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06:10
<tuxbrother>
but just start with the first problem
06:10
internet on the clients fails
06:11
<biomorph>
tuxbrother: That is probably because you do not have masquerading on the LTSP server (which is the machine with two nics?)
06:12
Do you know how you set it up on 9.10?
06:12
<tuxbrother>
the installer.
06:12
it worked without a hitch ;)
06:12
<alkisg>
Does internet fail when you logon normally?
06:12
<tuxbrother>
no
06:12
<alkisg>
When does it fail?
06:12
<tuxbrother>
when I log on to the client
06:13
<alkisg>
Yes, I mean, when you logon to gnome on the client, does it fail then?
06:13
<tuxbrother>
I don't get the picture
06:13
<alkisg>
When you logon on gnome on a client, you're working on the server
06:13
<tuxbrother>
yes
06:13
<alkisg>
So you don't need to do anything to get access to the internet
06:13
So, I don't get when it's working and when it doesn't, as both cases you said are on the server
06:15
Let me rephrase that. If you sit on the server, and open firefox, can you access the internet? I think you said "yes".
06:15
If you sit on a client, and open firefox, can you access the internet? I think you said "no" to that, but it doesn't really make sense, because on both cases firefox runs on the server.
06:16
<biomorph>
Sorry - ignore my comment. You only need masquerading if you set Firefox to run as a local application.
06:19
<tuxbrother>
strange
06:19
i have misspelled a network interface name
06:20
now the clients stuck on tftp while booting
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06:24
<alkisg>
Here's a page for tftp troubleshooting: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/Troubleshooting/TFTP
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06:30
<tuxbrother>
tftp problem fixed
06:31
now when I boot up the client
06:31
both the server and the client don't have internet
06:44
<Appiah>
dont the server have a internet connection?
06:44
then it's not really a ltsp issue.. check your settings
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07:40
<markit>
hi ppl :)
07:40
hi dgroos, any news about your forecoming updated translation of alkisg's script?
07:41
<alkisg>
markit: if you want, join #linux.sch.gr, we're talking about that now there
07:41
<markit>
ehm, in english? :)
07:42
<alkisg>
Sure, dgroos is there too
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09:49
<elias_a>
Has anyone knowledge of interactive whiteboard devices that would work with LTSP?
09:50
Linux support seems to be only a dream in many cases.
09:50
Has anyone succeeded using something like Averpen?
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11:40
<Kyle__>
I asked this yesterday when no-one was arround, I'll try again...
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11:41
<Kyle__>
If I moved my /opt/ltsp/i386 or /opt/ltsp/images directory from an ubuntu server, to say Fedora (example, not really my plan), I could still serve up LTSP fine, as long as the Fedora server had the ltsp-server packages. Correct?
11:42
<vagrantc>
wouldn't even need fedora ltsp packages, per se
11:42
<Kyle__>
OK.
11:43
So, is there a way of building a new image on said other OS, without migrating one to it frist?
11:43
<vagrantc>
Kyle__: you just need to configure DHCP, TFTP, NBD or NFS, and ldminfod
11:43
Kyle__: don't follow you... ?
11:44
Kyle__: "without migrating one to it" ??
11:44
<Kyle__>
vagrantc: If I had a Fedora-LTSP server, is there a way I could build a Suse or Ubuntu ltsp image on it? Or is the only method building the image on it's native platform, then migrating.
11:44
<vagrantc>
Kyle__: ah.
11:44
Kyle__: you could just set up a chroot to build it in
11:45* Kyle__ nods
11:45
<vagrantc>
other than that, i don't believe so
11:45
<Kyle__>
OK.
11:46
<vagrantc>
it's theoretically possible, but it would require fixing a lot of issues.
11:46* Kyle__ nods
11:46
<vagrantc>
and then maintaining those fixes, across multiple versions of other distros...
11:46
i suspect it would quickly drive us insane :)
11:47
more insane...
11:47
<Kyle__>
OK. Well, there was always hope someone had gone through the trouble of building a system for that :)
11:47* Kyle__ nods
11:47
<Kyle__>
Quite insane as it is...
11:47
<vagrantc>
we'd have to police each other's plugins to make sure they place nice.
11:47
and all the dependent software
11:48
honestly, i can't fathom it being worth the trouble
11:48
not that that doesn't mean it isn't
11:48
hard enough keeping a distro compatible with older versions of itself :)
11:49
<Kyle__>
Maybe using OpenVZ it would be possible...
11:49
Heh.
11:49
I should probably not worry about it. Right now I'm still fighting a kernel bug in ubuntu.
11:51
<vagrantc>
i think a simple chroot would be enough, no need for OpenVZ
11:54
<Kyle__>
vagrantc: Yea but with OpenVZ instead of standard chroot you should be able to build compleetly forign distros.
11:54
Like I said though, I shouldn't think about it for now.
11:55* vagrantc has installed fedora and ubuntu chroots on debian before
11:55
<Kyle__>
And they worked fine?
11:55
<vagrantc>
yeah
11:55
there's nothing in the ltsp build process that should be dependent on the running kernel
11:55
that would be the only real difference
11:56* Kyle__ nods.
11:56
<Kyle__>
Neat.
11:57
<vagrantc>
though the install process might be easier with some sort of virtualization... i.e. you can just use the plain installer CD or network install or whatever.
11:58
but to bootstrap an ubuntu/debian system, all you probably need is debootstrap
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14:55
<alkisg>
Thanks to dgroos, we have our first english "sch-scripts" version: http://users.sch.gr/alkisg/tosteki/index.php?topic=3220.0
14:56
(a classroom administration tool similar to italc but specifically designed for ltsp, thin + fat clients)
14:57
Most, but not all, of the UI is now translated to english, so it should be usable for anyone adventurous enough to try it.
15:09
<johnny>
alkisg, any recommendation for sommething like tcm that works for fat clients?
15:09
<alkisg>
johnny: sure, sch-scripts ;)
15:09
<johnny>
i don't really need to view the screen like it does, just sending messages and blanking the screen
15:09
<alkisg>
:P
15:09
You'll get the screen monitoring for free
15:09
<johnny>
so.. will it do those 2 things?
15:09
well then.. alkisg .. awesome
15:10
<alkisg>
Ah, message sending.. we don't have that, but we do have an "execute commands on clients" menu, which you can use to invoke zenity
15:10
<johnny>
beep boop bop
15:10
oh :(
15:10
<alkisg>
I'll put it in the todo list
15:10
<johnny>
mostly we need to say "stop looking at porn" or "you've been on the computer for an hour"
15:11
<alkisg>
It remembers the last commands you send, so you just need to type "zenity --info --text ..." once, and then replace the text there
15:11
<johnny>
not sure what gets into people's heads that that it's acceptable to look at born porn in a public place..
15:11
s/born//
15:12
<markit>
alkisg: ehm, in the (remote) event that sch-scripts don't work fine, can it be easely removed with aptitude purge, or does it screw up my installation (I guess is a sort of "beta" no?)
15:12
<alkisg>
It can be removed safely with apt-get remove
15:12
<markit>
Is your script something that stays apart from ltsp installation, or modifies it?
15:13
(thin client oly installation, at the moment)
15:13
<alkisg>
It modifies some configuration files... let me list them on that post I linked above
15:14
(e.g. it reenables nbd compression, it removes nbd-proxy etc)
15:15
The "worst" thing is that it depends on dnsmasq, so if you're using dhcp3-server, you need to disable dnsmasq from its configuration file
15:16
It also creates an lts.conf, but if one already exists, it doesn't modify it
15:16
That's about it, let me put those on the forum post...
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15:17
<alkisg>
Ah, better yet, I'll upload a new one that doesn't do many of those things
15:18
(I'll leave the nbd stuff as I think they're for the best)
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15:26
<alkisg>
markit: ok, I uploaded a version that doesn't depend on dnsmasq
15:26
So it should be pretty non-intrusive now
15:27
(no it isn't beta; it's just too much customized for our local needs)
15:28
<markit>
alkisg: I use dnsmasq
15:29
<alkisg>
Ah. sch-scripts installs an /etc/dnsmasq.d/ltsp.conf file, delete that one and keep your own
15:30* alkisg makes a new deb without that too... :)
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15:31
<markit>
urgh, italc uses encription? it's crazy
15:31
<alkisg>
markit, dgroos: we also have an "ltsp_config" file in the chroot that automatically chooses the best defaults, should I delete that one too?
15:32
E.g. X_COLOR_DEPTH=16 for thin clients, default for fat clients
15:32
LDM_DIRECTX=True if unset, etc etc
15:32
You can override anything by the normal lts.conf, they're just different defaults...
15:32
<markit>
I prefer set my own defaults when needed in host
15:33
<alkisg>
ok, deleting...
15:33
<markit>
btw, why do you have that in chroot?
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15:33
<Kyle__>
alkisg: I've been running that change in both labs for most of this week. So far so good.
15:34
<alkisg>
markit: e.g. we want thin clients to use 16 bit color depth to save network bandwidth, so that they go faster
15:34
But we want fat clients to use 32 bit color depth
15:34
You can't do that from the normal lts.conf
15:34
<markit>
no?
15:34
<alkisg>
(without using mac-addresses for fat clients etc)
15:34
No
15:35
There's no "if" command in lts.conf
15:35
<markit>
ah, conditionally you mean!
15:35
I got it now, ok
15:35
btw, maybe this idea should go "upstream" and make the lts.conf much smarter
15:35
since we have thin/fat configs to manage
15:35
<jammcq>
hmm
15:35
<markit>
hi jammcq :)
15:36
<jammcq>
is a specific thin client sometimes booting as a fat client, and sometimes not?
15:36
<alkisg>
jammcq: no, clients with < 500 MB ram are automatically booted as thin, otherwise as fat
15:36
(if a fat chroot is present)
15:37
markit: the problem is that not all people want the same defaults
15:38
<markit>
alkisg: you should then leave the ltsp_config with just comments about it's usage and some suggested settings commented out
15:38
and mention it's existence in some documentation :)
15:38
<alkisg>
Heh, that's only for our local needs, so feel free to create your own that suits your needs
15:39
There's an ltsp_config.d directory where you can drop configuration scripts on the chroot
15:39
<markit>
good
15:39
btw, with "local" you mean entire Greece or what?
15:40
(local needs)
15:40
<alkisg>
Entire greece
15:40
OK, done, uploaded to the forum link above
15:40
<markit>
lol, my meaning of "local" is the school of my town
15:41
<alkisg>
No dnsmasq dependency, no ltsp_config, no dnsmasq.d/ltsp configuration files anymore
15:41
<markit>
is just a matter of importance of the installer, I guess, lol
15:42
<alkisg>
dgroos: done, you can download from http://users.sch.gr/alkisg/tosteki/index.php?topic=3220.0 and test whenever you have time
15:42
<markit>
alkisg: could you put those removed files somewhere? I'm sure there are useful defaults to learn from
15:43
<alkisg>
markit: they're on our bazaar branch at http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~sch-devs/sch-scripts/trunk/files
15:43
<markit>
hope can be downloaded from web, don't want to learn bazaar, I've already too much troubles with git :)
15:43
<alkisg>
Sure, just click the link
15:43
<markit>
alkisg: in any case, thanks once more for your help and script
15:44
<alkisg>
np
15:44
<markit>
I'm looking forward to test it
15:44
<alkisg>
I hope it works ok for you
15:44
<markit>
me too :)
15:44
<vagrantc>
can't you create lts.conf options that trigger the code?
15:44
i.e. if boolean_is_true "$USE_CRAZY_SCH_SCRIPTS_DEFAULTS" ; then ...
15:44
<alkisg>
vagrantc: X_COLOR_DEPTH=auto? Would you think that's ok?
15:45
Ah. Well, isn't it simpler to just remove our ltsp_config.d/* customization file?
15:45
<vagrantc>
alkisg: depends on how generally useful the stuff you've implemented is
15:45
honestly, i think all of ltsp_config should be split into ltsp_config.d snippets
15:46
<alkisg>
Not really. E.g. we default to LDM_DIRECTX=True, but that's just local preference...
15:46
There are some stuff that'd be useful upstream (like FAT_RAM_THRESHOLD, which I already commited some time ago), but not many of those
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15:47
<alkisg>
I totally agree about the ltsp_config.d snippets
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15:57
<alkisg>
I also think it'd be nice if a web-based lts.conf is used for non-cluster installations too, where the client sends its properties (RAM, CPU, NIC, graphics card, etc) and then the server can conditionally select the best lts.conf values for it...
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15:59
<vagrantc>
alkisg: implement as a snippet?
15:59
<alkisg>
Right, that's what I've done so far, but I like the idea of the server deciding better
16:00
E.g. now all clients receive all LDM_PASSWORDs, with the server implementation each client would only get its own
16:05
The same web script could also be used to provide server info, replacing ldminfo to save resources.
16:06
(I've tried python's SimpleHTTPServer, seems to work fine)
16:11
<vagrantc>
using passwords is a stupid idea anyways..
16:13
<jammcq>
alkisg: interesting idea
16:14
we kicked around something like that many years ago, but didn't want to get into the business of supporting Apache. a smaller http server might work out nicely
16:14
<alkisg>
jammcq: ltsp-cluster already uses a web interface, that could merge those 2 interfaces, simplifying the code
16:14
<jammcq>
sure
16:15
<alkisg>
I'd like to provide an initial implementation for comments, but I'd have to do it after my phd, in 2 years... :-/
16:15
<Kyle__>
thttpd
16:15
It's small, and pretty darned good.
16:15
<jammcq>
heh, 2 years goes by in a nanosecond around here
16:16
<alkisg>
Kyle__: a python server would be faster because all conditional logic could be then be in python
16:16
...instead of e.g. invoking php or a cgi shell script
16:16
<Kyle__>
alkisg: granted, but in the case of using a prebuilt-binary like that, it's already tested, not re-inventing the wheel, etc etc.
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16:17
<vagrantc>
as long as it doesn't mean completely dropping support for the current way of using lts.conf ...
16:17
<alkisg>
A SimpleHTTPServer in python is less than 10 lines, and I think it's also tested
16:17
<Kyle__>
alkisg: If you wanted to implement it in a highlevel language, do all the logic straight in the sever, you could do python, perl, ruby, lau, etc etc.
16:17
<alkisg>
vagrantc: right, it should be backwards compatible for at least a decade... :D
16:17
<vagrantc>
alkisg: :)
16:18
<Kyle__>
what is this, debian?
16:18
I think they've kept binary compatibility for at least that long....
16:18
<vagrantc>
debian typically only supports a release for 3-4 years, actually.
16:18
i.e. the length of the release + 1 year
16:19
<alkisg>
Judging by how many people still ask for LTSP 4 support, I'd go for more :D
16:19
<vagrantc>
heh
16:19
ltsp4 was basically done ... in 2006? or earlier?
16:19
<Kyle__>
Actually aren't they due for a new relase soon? Like in 2015?
16:20
<alkisg>
No idea, I came around in 2008, so that's paleontology for me
16:20
<jammcq>
LTSP-4.2 was released in January of 2005
16:20
just before Linux world
16:20
<vagrantc>
ltsp 5 wasn't really ready till 2006 or so
16:20
<jammcq>
we had the hackfest at my office in Sept 2006
16:21
<vagrantc>
right
16:21
though 5.1.1 wasn't release till 2008-03-26
16:21
but we'd been using it for quite some time...
16:22
that was the first version we started coordinating on release versions across distros...
16:23
march of 2007 was the first 5.0.1 release.
16:23
at least to ubuntu
16:24
<jammcq>
http://xkcd.com/797/
16:24
that's a great one
16:26
<vagrantc>
heh
16:26
<Kyle__>
jammcq: I put those up on my door every once in awhile.
16:27
jammcq: The best was when a full time Oracle-Forms developer had to ask me to explain the "Johnny Drop Tables" strip. She didn't get it.
16:27
<jammcq>
the thing is, printing it misses the message that shows up when you hover your mouse over it
16:27
sometimes that's the funniest part
16:28* Kyle__ nods
16:28
<Kyle__>
Reminds me, I forgot to put that under the lightening strip I put on my door today...
16:29* alkisg loved http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/windows_7.png
16:30
<markit>
lol
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17:24
<rpm_>
does anyone know of a way to get make ltsp optimized for playing streaming media?
17:31
<alkisg>
Without localapps? LDM_DIRECTX=True is the best you can get...
17:32
With localapps, you can just run the streaming client (e.g. vlc) locally
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17:47
<rpm_>
Thanks, I am running it with firefox locally with adobe and java which sort of helps but is still pretty choppy. The other issue is I can't seem to get the right combination of plugins installed to play quicktime in the browser, do you know how to do that? thanks in advance.
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17:49
<alkisg>
Can you define "streaming media" better?
17:49
Also, what are you client specs? (cpu/ram)?
17:51
<rpm_>
they are the disklessworkstation 1600 series thin clients, 1.6 GHz Atom, 1 GB DDRII 10/100/1000 Ethernet
17:52
<alkisg>
Local firefox+flash shouldn't be choppy on them...
17:52
Are you sure it's running locally?
17:55
<rpm_>
As far as I can tell, I installed the plugins and browser into the image, updated the image and set the parameters local_app settings. When I use the browser it looks a little different now.
17:55
I am running ubuntu 10.04
17:56
<alkisg>
If you type file:///etc/ltsp_chroot on that local firefox, what do you see?
17:56
(in the url box)
17:57
<rpm_>
I am not at the terminal right now so I can't check, what should I see?
17:57
<alkisg>
LTSP_CHROOT=/opt/ltsp/i386
17:58
That would verify that it's indeed a local firefox
17:59
If it is a local firefox, and it's choppy, then I don't think there's anything more you can do... that has the same speed as if it was locally installed.
17:59
<rpm_>
ok, thanks I'll check that. what about the quicktime issue? What should I be running as far a pluggins for quicktime.
18:00* alkisg has no clue about quicktime, not using it...
18:00
<rpm_>
K, thanks.
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