IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 5 October 2016   (all times are UTC)

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06:17
<mapetrop>
Μπορώ να δημιουργήσω χρήστες που να μπορούν να συνδεθούν μόνο από έναν υπολογιστή;
06:19
<alkisg>
Καλημέρα mapetrop
06:19
Υπάρχει μια οδηγία LDM_LIMIT_USERS που μπορείς να βάλεις στο lts.conf
06:19
Έτσι ώστε μόνο αυτοί οι χρήστες να μπορούν να συνδεθούν σε έναν συγκεκριμένο Η/Υ
06:19
Εσύ όμως νομίζω θες το αντίθετο, LDM_BLOCK_USERS
06:20
<mapetrop>
καλημέρα.Θέλω να μην μπαίνουν σε "υπολογιστές" άλλων...
06:20
<alkisg>
Πες μου παράδειγμα
06:20
Να μπαίνει ο a1-01 μόνο στο pc01, ο a1-02 μόνο στο pc02 κλπ;
06:21
Ή λες για τον grammateia να μπαίνει μόνο στη γραμματεία;
06:21
Εεε βασικά πάμε στο ελληνικό κανάλι
06:21
<mapetrop>
ακριβώς. ο a1-01 μόνο στο pc01, ο a1-02 μόνο στο pc02...
06:21
<alkisg>
Γράψε εδώ όπως είσαι: /join #ts.sch.gr
06:21
!greek
06:21
<ltsp>
greek: Στο παρόν κανάλι μιλάνε μόνο Αγγλικά, για υποστήριξη στα Ελληνικά από την υπηρεσία Τεχνικής Στήριξης ΣΕΠΕΗΥ διαβάστε το http://ts.sch.gr/wiki/IRC και στη συνέχεια πληκτρολογήστε /j #ts.sch.gr
06:22
<alkisg>
mapetrop: γράψε εδώ στο irc αυτή τη γραμμή: /join #ts.sch.gr
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07:20
<mapetrop>
/j #ts.sch.gr
07:23
alkisg: Ευχαριστώ πολύ. Δούλεψε... Ευχαριστω
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10:19
<Hyperbyte>
alkisg, do I need to add a thin client user to a certain group before they can use USB sticks in LTSP?
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11:34
<alkisg>
Hyperbyte: in ubuntu ltsp, no
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11:48
<Hyperbyte>
mhmmm
11:49
When someone plugs in a USB stick, it asks for a superuser password.
11:50
<ogra_>
fuse group ?
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12:30
<alkisg>
Hyperbyte: which desktop environment?
12:31
And, what's the output of `sudo ltsp-info` on the server...
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12:56
<bennabiy>
alkisg: I have started cleaning up the Ubuntu wiki entries, but do not know how specific to get. I wonder if we can make a section for outdated information, kept for historical references, and keep the current info available.
12:57
<alkisg>
bennabiy: personally I would use the ltsp.org wiki and make a note in the whole ubuntu wiki that it's unmaintained, and a link to wiki.ltsp.org
12:58
My approach of "each person maintains his own page" seemed to work, but unfortunately not all people will want to adopt that
12:58
<bennabiy>
alkisg: Ok
13:23
<Hyperbyte>
alkisg, it's MATE. I'll have to look at ltsp-info tomorrow. I'm not on location currently.
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13:54
<bennabiy>
alkisg: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP - Is that what you were thinking?
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14:03
<bennabiy>
alkisg: It is posted on the LTSP wiki " Check if the content is distro-specific or not. Distro-specific content should be added to your distro's documentation, where people tend to look for it. " which would point people back to the Ubuntu wiki which points people back .... you get the picture
14:05
<alkisg>
bennabiy: user experience with ltsp should be the same without caring about distros
14:06
For example, ltsp-config dnsmasq, ltsp-update-image, things like that
14:06
<bennabiy>
alkisg: I agree. I am just noting what our existing documentation says.
14:06
<alkisg>
If there are distro specific things, the devs should be notified to hide them behind ltsp-config or other commands
14:07
That should be changed, ltsp from the users side shouldnt' be distro specific
14:07
It is distro-specific from the developers side, but it shouldn't be from the users side or in the wiki
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14:07
<bennabiy>
alkisg: pulled from http://wiki.ltsp.org/wiki/Help:Contents
14:08
<alkisg>
Maybe knipwim wrote that, that doesn't mean it shouldn't be changed
14:08
<bennabiy>
agreed. I just do not want people to get confused as to where to look for information / help
14:08
<alkisg>
Personally I think that the whole https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP should have a banner saying "this is unofficial documentation from ubuntu users, not from the ltsp team - for the ltsp documentation see wiki.ltsp.org"
14:09
<bennabiy>
since I updated the ubuntu wiki to point to ltsp wiki
14:09
alkisg: would you like for me to update that?
14:09
<alkisg>
Well, I think the ltsp wiki should be updated *before* the ubuntu wiki
14:09
Otherwise you point the users to non-existing content
14:09
<bennabiy>
alkisg: agreed...
14:10
alkisg: perhaps one of these meetings you all have should be devoted to catching the documentation up
14:10
<alkisg>
Well now it's just me and vagrantc
14:10
We barely keep up with the development
14:10
It's up to others to take over documentation, if they want it
14:11
The last meeting was what, in 2013?
14:11
<bennabiy>
that sounds right
14:12
<alkisg>
(not talking about BTS, which isn't about programming anymore :D)
14:12
<bennabiy>
I noticed
14:13
you had some type of hackathon with sbalneav and vagrantc on updating ltsp a couple years ago
14:13
was that 2014?
14:13
2015?
14:13
<alkisg>
Unfortunately that never actually happened
14:13
<bennabiy>
that is sad
14:13
<alkisg>
When me and vagrantc were ready, sbalneav wasn't available, and vice-versa
14:14
<bennabiy>
hrm
14:14
alkisg: on a different note, I cannot seem to get a printer shared to a fat client even though it is shared on the server
14:15
<alkisg>
distro/version?
14:15
<bennabiy>
16.04 MATE
14:15
64 bit
14:15
client and server
14:15
<alkisg>
Do you have anything printer-related in lts.conf?
14:15
<bennabiy>
nope
14:16
didn't know I needed anything in there
14:16
<alkisg>
Is the printer connected to the server?
14:16
Nothing is needed in lts.conf
14:16
<bennabiy>
it is networked
14:16
<alkisg>
Is the printer configured and shared on the server?
14:16
<bennabiy>
yes
14:16
<alkisg>
Can you see the printer *on the server* from a standalone pc on the network?
14:16
Because I"m not sure that network printers are published by default...
14:17
<bennabiy>
I am about to fire up my client again
14:17
<alkisg>
to prevent duplicate printers
14:17
<bennabiy>
I checked my settings on the server (which I am working from right now) and it is shared
14:17
<alkisg>
Check from a standalone client
14:18
To be able to see the printer *on the server* and not directly on the network
14:18
<bennabiy>
unfortunately I only have one monitor to use between the two computers, so I can look at the screen on one and then the other
14:18
If I understand what you mean, check from the LTSP network (2 nic setup) to see if I can see the shared printer, and not the printer by IP directly
14:18
correct?
14:19
from my fat client, or from a standalone system?
14:19
would a virtual machine work if I linked it to my ltsp network?
14:24
booting a liveCD on LTSP network
14:26
alkisg: yes, I see the shared printers from a liveCD on the LTSP network
14:27
and printing works
14:27
alkisg: from the liveCD
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14:51
<bennabiy>
alkisg: now it is working... hrm
14:51* bennabiy shrugs
14:52
<alkisg>
bennabiy: cups refresh interval? maybe you shared it and then checked immediately without letting some time pass?
14:52
<bennabiy>
alkisg: could be
14:52
<alkisg>
Or maybe you enabled sharing after the client had booted
14:52
<bennabiy>
alkisg: that is probably what happened
14:53
I am going to reboot and log in on my fat client now
14:53
alkisg: what is the best way to make a fat client changes permanent. You mentioned before that I could set the NBD as RW?
14:54
regenerating the image after each security update or letting them all accumulate in the RAM is not a very effective model
14:54
<alkisg>
bennabiy: the ltsp philosophy is "the image will be discarded on reboot; do arbitrary changes in init-ltsp.d"
14:54
It's not a good idea to store the changes of an ltsp client
14:55
Do things server-side
14:55
If you want to use a VM as the ltsp-pnp server (+template client), go ahead; but making the changes from an init=/sbin/init-ltsp client isn't good pracise
14:56
*practise
14:56
<bennabiy>
alkisg: true
14:57
I am just looking at times where I personally need to install packages, or test things, and then if I let enough time go by before reboot, I forget to permanently install those items and then wonder why it isn't working when I try again later
14:58
<alkisg>
Some times we want those packages to remain installed; other times we do want them purged on reboot
14:58
<bennabiy>
and I can only generate my image ltsp-pnp style so often because I have to unmount certain bind mounts because they do not allow the image to be generated
14:58
<alkisg>
Doing it on the server vs on the client is a good separation between those
14:58
You shouldn't need to unmount anything though; that can be fixed
14:59
<bennabiy>
alkisg: have not found a fix yet
14:59
<alkisg>
For example, you can mount them elsewhere and exclude them from ltsp-update-image.excludes
14:59
E.g. mounts under /mnt or /media are already excluded
14:59
<bennabiy>
I have tried that, but can try again
15:00
alkisg: https://pastebin.mozilla.org/8916030
15:00
that is an example I get for anything bind mounted
15:01
<alkisg>
bennabiy: I have 30 bind-mounts under /home/Shared and never had a problem
15:01
Does the dir exist in the lower file system as well?
15:01
<bennabiy>
yes
15:02
<alkisg>
I don't think so.
15:02
<bennabiy>
well, somewhat
15:02
zfs
15:02
home is a zfs mount
15:02
<alkisg>
I think I did solve that issue in the ltsp trunk... I'm not sure if it made it to 16.04
15:03
The problem is that /home/bennabiy/Mounts/Documents does not exist in the ext4 file system
15:03
Not in the zfs one
15:03
<bennabiy>
alkisg: that is correct
15:03
<alkisg>
So if you create it, you bypass the problem
15:03
<bennabiy>
the zfs will not mount on a non empty directory
15:03
<alkisg>
(until a newer ltsp is shipped)
15:04
Really? That's strange.
15:04
<bennabiy>
/home needs to be empty for zfs to mount
15:08
<alkisg>
Hmmm I did put the correct mkdir there, and it doesn't happen to me with ext4+bind mounts
15:08
So it might be related specifically to zfs
15:09
bennabiy: anyway, just specify /home in EXCLUDED_MOUNTS
15:09
To bypass all those submounts completely
15:10
<bennabiy>
alkisg: will try that
15:10
<alkisg>
See the get_mounts function of ltsp-update-image.
15:11
<bennabiy>
I already have home/* in there
15:12
in ltsp-update-image.excludes
15:12
alkisg: ^
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16:20
<bennabiy>
alkisg: is there a way to use epoptes from a fat client?
16:20
could I do remoteapps and have it work?
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19:40
<bennabiy>
vagrantc: Do you have thoughts about how to get documentation caught up?
19:43
vagrantc: also, do you know why my fingerprint reader would work on my server, but not on the client I made from the server?
19:45
<vagrantc>
bennabiy: same way anything changes ... people interested in it fix it
19:45
bennabiy: tinkered with the idea of crowd-funding various parts ... but haven't really had anyone able to take on the work of making that happen
19:47
bennabiy: how is the fingerprint reader supposed to work? using an ltsp-pnp-style fat client?
19:48
<bennabiy>
vagrantc: it uses fprintd / fingerprint-gui and yes on a fat client
19:49
<vagrantc>
bennabiy: is there machine-specific configuration encoded in fprintd or something like that?
19:49
<bennabiy>
vagrantc: not that I know of
19:49
<vagrantc>
don't really have any experience, but that's the only thing i could think of off the top of my head
19:49
<bennabiy>
the gui runs, and I can see the device in it, but then when it goes to read from the device, it says no permissions
19:50
but the ltsp-pnp image was generated from a server where it was working fine
19:50
<vagrantc>
maybe it's a permissions issue? :P
19:51
could be some sort of consolekit or some other system that ldm doesn't implement
19:51
<bennabiy>
one second
19:51
<vagrantc>
could try it by using a kiosk session
19:51
well, that might not either
19:52
you could experiment with your fat client using lightdm or gdm3 instead of ldm
19:53
authenticated logins?
19:53
<bennabiy>
authenticated logins and sudo password entry etc
19:54
I checked pam-auth-update and it lists it in there
19:54
It uses libbsapi policykit-1-fingerprint-gui fingerprint-gui
19:54
oops
19:54
double type
19:55
<vagrantc>
ldm doesn't do pam
19:55
<bennabiy>
what about post login
19:55
the device still gives me the cannot read error
19:56
<vagrantc>
what do you mean post login?
19:56
<bennabiy>
like if I do not use it to login, but then post login if I use it for sudo password etc
19:57
<vagrantc>
use what how?
19:57* bennabiy sighs
19:58
<vagrantc>
you're asking about systems i have virtually no information about, so please be specific
19:59
<bennabiy>
Ok, so... If I just want to access the device, which in general is just a camera which takes a picture of the finger. Where are permissions set for USB devices of that nature?
20:00
<vagrantc>
nowhere LTSP specific
20:01
probably some lack of policykit/consolekit/someotherrandomkit
20:01
that ldm doesn't implement
20:02
bennabiy: is there a /dev/video device? what are it's permissions
20:04
<bennabiy>
nope
20:04
anyway, it is probably not an LTSP issue apart from the fact that the generation of the image causes it to not work
20:04
<vagrantc>
can you access the camera from commandline on your server?
20:05
<bennabiy>
I cannot see what the device is called as far as /dev is concerned
20:05
<vagrantc>
what does fprintd access?
20:06
<razielle_tzu>
fingerprint readers don't appear as a /dev/video, i can't remember what they do appear as though as neither of hte ones i have are supported by fprintd
20:06
<vagrantc>
could you boot your server as a fat client (e.g. move the image elsewhere and boot it)
20:06
see if it works then?
20:07
i guess you'd also have to have homedir mounting elsewhere ...
20:07
and ssh auth
20:26
<alkisg>
bennabiy: I was talking about the EXCLUDED_MOUNTS variable, not ltsp-update-image.excludes. It's a different thing.
20:27
bennabiy: to use epoptes from a fat client, see the epoptes.org documentation pages
20:27
That one is maintained ;)
20:29
<bennabiy>
alkisg: I got epoptes working
20:29
<alkisg>
About the finger print reader permissions, first try as root, to see if it's indeed a permissions issue and not a wrong message
20:30
<bennabiy>
alkisg: worked as root
20:31
<alkisg>
Nice. What command do you run to check?
20:31
<bennabiy>
sudo fingerprint-gui
20:31
<alkisg>
And it shows what, a screenshot of a fingerprint?
20:32
<bennabiy>
it actually verifies that it will work with sudo etc, and it takes a fingerprint scan etc
20:32
it recognized my system already had my prints registered and verified them
20:33
<vagrantc>
sounds like it really is a permissions issue, then...
20:33
<bennabiy>
yes
20:33
<alkisg>
When you run sudo ls, do you get a fingerprint prompt?
20:34
<bennabiy>
no
20:34
<alkisg>
I don't understand the use of the fingerprint reader
20:34
So I don't understand at what point it's going to read from the device node
20:34
<bennabiy>
alkisg: it is supposed to prompt me
20:34
it just doesnt right now
20:34
alkisg: I misunderstood your question
20:35
<alkisg>
So you want to do authentication using fingerprints when running sudo etc
20:35
<bennabiy>
yes
20:35
and unlocking the screen
20:36
<alkisg>
I'm not sure we got the "root" question/answer correctly now
20:36
So, the root user doesn't have a registered fingerprint, right?
20:37
Is there some way to check if the fingerprint reader is working, without involving pam?
20:37
Like, fingerprint-gui, read my fingerprint but don't involve authenticaiton
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20:47
<bennabiy>
alkisg: I do have a fingerprint registered for root
20:48
alkisg: I can do fprint_demo to test basic reading
20:48
as user, it does not work
20:48
I did not test it with root
20:48
<alkisg>
bennabiy: fprint_demo checks the user fingerprint against the saved one?
20:49
<bennabiy>
alkisg: nope, it is just a sample program that tests the reader and saves a print and compares it
20:49
<alkisg>
OK, try strace -e trace=file fprint_demo, and see which device node it tries to read
20:50
Or if child processes are needed, strace -f -e trace=file fprint_demo
20:51
And test it as root as well
20:53
<bennabiy>
[pid 14700] open("/sys/bus/usb/devices/1-5.2.1.2/descriptors", O_RDONLY) = 12
20:53
as root
20:53
worked
20:56
<alkisg>
/dev/something
20:57
<bennabiy>
nope, all within /sys
20:58
no /dev
20:58
Bus 001 Device 055: ID 0483:2015 STMicroelectronics TouchChip® Fingerprint Reader
20:58
or if it is under dev, I did not see record of it
20:59
I will dump strace to file and pastebin it
20:59
<vagrantc>
it's probably a usb generic device with no device node
21:01
<bennabiy>
/dev/bus/usb/001/055
21:01
I straced fingerprint-gui
21:06
I think I see the issue
21:06
on the fat client, my user got removed from the plugdev group
21:06
but on the server I am still a member
21:08
and after adding my user to plugdev, and doing a su to my user, it prompted me for my fingerprint and passed it, but then the gui still failed because I have not logged out and back in
21:09
I have also noticed that with my fat client, my user was removed as an admin login to do updates etc, but I can still sudo
21:09
and other users in the plugdev were not removed...
21:10
is it because my user is a local user and the rest are all LDAP users?
21:10
alkisg, vagrantc ^
21:11
<vagrantc>
local user where?
21:11
<bennabiy>
local on the server
21:11
actually I am both in LDAP and on the server
21:12
<vagrantc>
try as a user that's only in LDAP ?
21:13
<bennabiy>
back in a minute
21:13
<vagrantc>
speculations are often harder to answer than simplying experimenting :)
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21:17
<bennabiy>
worked basically under an LDAP user
21:18
the gui etc worked
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21:19
<bennabiy>
if I look in /etc/group on the fat client, my user was removed from it
21:19
but all the LDAP members are still there
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21:40
<vagrantc>
there's some overly complicated logic attempting to resolve discrepencies in group name vs. group id, and it can fall down badly.
21:40
i think it's in ldm's localapps hooks, which are also used by fat clients
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23:56
<professor_>
I wonder when you can develop epoptes to be run in Windows environment
23:58
someone can answer me this question?
23:59
<razielle_tzu>
what question? that was a statement :)