IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 9 December 2011   (all times are UTC)

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12:26
<alkisg>
Has anyone heard reports about X_MODE_0 not working anymore?
12:26
It doesn't seem to put the mode in the generated xorg.conf file...
12:28
<muppis>
Any usage for vino-server in server? Someones playing with it and it's hogging CPU.
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12:29
<alkisg>
muppis: italc?
12:30
<muppis>
alkisg, not installed afaik.
12:30
<alkisg>
Well, if you don't want people to be able to have remote access to their displays, you can disable vino-server
12:31
dpkg -l italc* | grep ^ii will tell you about italc
12:31
<muppis>
I think there's no routing for that. Whole system is in isolated network anyway.
12:32
Or not fully isolated, but no access at all from internet.
12:32
<alkisg>
E.g. people can leave their screens on, and access them from another computer within the company
12:32
I don't know your use case, it's up to you to decide
12:33
<muppis>
I think I purge it from server for good.
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12:40
<alkisg>
Ah, xrandr needs to be disabled for X_MODE_0 to work
12:41
That needs to go in the docs...
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16:01
<vagrantc>
stgraber: you might want to consider pulling libnss-sshsock
16:02
<stgraber>
vagrantc: done
16:04
<alkisg>
vagrantc: do I have commit access to ltsp-docs? where's that maintained, in https://code.launchpad.net/~ltsp-upstream/ltsp/ltsp-docs-trunk.daily-packaging ?
16:04
(X_MODE_0 needs XRANDR_DISABLE=True to take effect, I thought I'd put that in the man page...)
16:09
<stgraber>
alkisg: https://code.launchpad.net/~ltsp-docwriters/ltsp/ltsp-docs-trunk
16:09
alkisg: it's the only LTSP branch that's not under ~ltsp-upstream as we have non-coder who have access to it
16:09
<alkisg>
stgraber: thanks!
16:09
<stgraber>
I think ltsp-upstream is part of ltsp-docwriters so you should have commit access ot it
16:09
*to
16:10
<alkisg>
Gotcha
16:10
<vagrantc>
alkisg: i haven't actually been maintaining the debian branch anywhere...
16:10* vagrantc doesn't really like maintaining the debian dir in a separate project
16:12
<alkisg>
vagrantc: why don't you put it in ltsp-docs-trunk then? Anyone objects to that?
16:12
<vagrantc>
alkisg: i also don't really like maintaining a distro-specific branch upstream
16:12
i.e. not all derivatives will necessarily use the same branch
16:13
but may use the same dir
16:13
and merging packaging changes is a pain
16:14
<alkisg>
I think it's not how projects usually work, but personally I don't see anything wrong in having several distro/ dirs in the same upstream branch
16:14
debian/, ubuntu/, fedora/ or whatever
16:15
<vagrantc>
technically, ubuntu doesn't support "ubuntu/"
16:16
<alkisg>
I'm sure that could easily be scripted in the build process
16:17
<vagrantc>
alkisg: you get into weird issues when you're not in sync with upstream ... i.e. you need to make packaging changes against a released version butt upstream has further commits on it
16:17
it becomes impossible to tag the versions
16:17
<alkisg>
I have other ideas about versioning too :P
16:18
E.g. if you look at dbus versioning in launchpad, it allows for maintaining old version while distributing new ones
16:18
<vagrantc>
what i do with other projects is merge the upstream into the packaging branch so that i can keep the version consistant
16:19
alkisg: i don't think you can sync tags on divergent branches
16:19* vagrantc really prefers git these days
16:28
<stgraber>
you definitely never want the packaging dirs in an upstream branch
16:29
but you can have another branch that contains upstream + packaging and merge from upstream (that's what the udd branches are in Ubuntu)
16:31
<alkisg>
I'm still too idealistic to accept that just because all the other developers do it this way :D
16:32
I wouldn't mind seeing the fedora initscripts or whatever in the ltsp upstream branch, I'd might even learn from them... e.g. opensuse had the solution for the ubuntu udev race sync months ago
16:33
<vagrantc>
alkisg: init scripts are appropriate upstream, but the actual packaging work should be done separately
16:35
<alkisg>
Any reasons for that? Besides "should"?
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16:35
<alkisg>
I woulndn't even mind seeing nsis scripts for windows packages, in upstream branches
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16:36
<alkisg>
But anyway I know how projects work, so all this is too theoretical...
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16:39
<vagrantc>
alkisg: should i quote what i said earlier?
16:39
<alkisg>
No, I read it, but I don't understand it
16:39
Kernel supports previous versions upstream, right?
16:39
<vagrantc>
git handles tagging much better than bzr, also
16:40
<alkisg>
If we release patches for ltsp 5.1, why shouldn't those go automatically to any distro that still ships that?
16:40
<vagrantc>
it becomes almost impossible to merge patches for the packaging when you also have upstream changes on the same branch
16:41
well, to merge them properly
16:41
<ogra_>
yeah, that only works if you maintain a snapshot for the distro release
16:41
<alkisg>
If we had an "ltsp 5.1" branch, with all disto packaging there, and we backported some code fix, the distros would only need to build it
16:42
<vagrantc>
alkisg: and if distro X doesn't actually need the patch, or the patch is even harmful, but needs to make a packaging change, what then?
16:42
<ogra_>
well, in ubuntu you woudl struggle with the SRU policy if you had say 500 lines fo code changed for gentoo ...
16:42
simply because that makes it unreviewable ... even if the ubuntu change is only 5 lines or so
16:43* vagrantc seconds ogra_
16:43
<vagrantc>
same issue for debian
16:43
<ogra_>
yeah
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16:44
<alkisg>
Code for gentoo would be under gentoo/, so it shouldn't even be included in Ubuntu, with proper packaging
16:44
<vagrantc>
but it's upstream
16:44
<ogra_>
i dont think we exclude anything from the tarball
16:44
nor does debian
16:44
(and i bet neither does fedora)
16:45
<vagrantc>
different distros shouldn't have different tarballs
16:45
<ogra_>
right
16:45
<vagrantc>
if there is a particular release
16:45
<alkisg>
I'm talking about a different organization, that doesn't distinquish between "upstream tarball" and "local distro diff"
16:45
<vagrantc>
(although that does happen)
16:45
<alkisg>
Anyway guys I know I'm too far away from reality in this
16:46
<vagrantc>
alkisg: you'll have to push your changes to each distro individually ...
16:46
<ogra_>
and go through their process for stable release upgrades as well
16:46
<alkisg>
src/ debian/ ubuntu/ fedora/ opensuse/ whatever/ => I'd only push in src/. If gentoo/ is modified, Ubuntu wouldn't care.
16:47
<ogra_>
it will show up in the debdiff nontheless
16:47
<alkisg>
Not with the proper tools, ignoring those dirs
16:47
<ogra_>
which is what is used to review
16:47
<vagrantc>
not if the tarball is only the "src/" dir.
16:47
but even still
16:48
there may still be unreleased changes, and it will be impossible to tag debian-5.123.5 if src has tagged upstream-5.124
16:48
<ogra_>
well, you would have to epoch each and every update :)
16:49
<vagrantc>
HURT
16:49
<ogra_>
heh
16:49
<alkisg>
Upstream would support e.g. "ltsp 5.1", so each backport would be "ltsp 5.1.1" and then "ltsp 5.1.2". Distros would have "ltsp 5.1.1-1" etc.
16:49
Why would that require epochs?
16:50
<ogra_>
our versioning is inherited from the tags ...
16:51
if you merge something from trunk into stable thats 5.1.3 ... it gets messy
16:51
<vagrantc>
alkisg: you still wouldn't be able to tag the debian dir changes separately from the upstream tags.
16:52
alkisg: so you wouldn't be able to get from the VCS "please show me the upstream + debian dir changes at version 1.2.3.4-12"
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21:32
<sndwrx>
I have a seemingly obvious question, but I'm about to deploy my first LTSP environment in a somewhat post-disaster situation.
21:33
Server went down at local library, public kiosks no longer have the happy Windows XP based time management control, consequently they've been put out of commission. In attempt to get things up and running quickly, I'm going to enable a kiosk-purposed LTSP environment.
21:34
My question is, and again it seems obvious to me but I want to know what I'm headed into: Is it possible to specify different login environment according to username?
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21:35
<sndwrx>
One group of computers will be completely locked down to only a web browser with limited functionality, another group of computers will require a more "desktop-like" experience including web browser, office suite, etc.
21:37
I'm wondering if I can accomplish that with one LTSP server or if I'll need two.
21:39
<vagrantc>
should be able to mostly lock it down, although they still might be able to "break out" of the limited environment if other software is installed..
21:40
<khildin>
other software installed as in... local apps
21:40
or fat client?
21:40
<vagrantc>
either way
21:41
<sndwrx>
I haven't decided on fat or thin client.
21:41
<vagrantc>
there's nothing really specific to LTSP about that, though
21:41
<sndwrx>
But basically I should be able to have one username that logs in and is thrown straight into a web browser, and another user that is given...
21:41
<vagrantc>
sndwrx: they'll all be kiosk type setups? i.e. people won't have users that they log in as?
21:42
<sndwrx>
That's correct.
21:42
<vagrantc>
sndwrx: you'll need one user per client.
21:42
<sndwrx>
All different usernames, presumably? kiosk1, kiosk2, kiosk3, etc...
21:42
<vagrantc>
yes
21:42* sndwrx nods.
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21:43
<sndwrx>
Right now I have one machine that is multiseated, when the user logs in it throws them into a custom IceWM session that does nothing at all but load Firefox with some kiosk locked down features.
21:43
<vagrantc>
sadly, many common GUI programs these days don't support running multiple login sessions from one user account.
21:43
<sndwrx>
I found that out with the multiseat. It did funny things. :)
21:44
The primary group of machines (12 of them) will require something like a standard desktop. Web browser, LibreOffice, and possibly Overdrive Media Console if I can get it to play nicely in Wine.
21:45* vagrantc cringes
21:45
<vagrantc>
sndwrx: what you're doing should be possible, and you have lots of options available to figure out what you're doing :)
21:45
<sndwrx>
Yeah, I'm not happy about that but it offends me less than just sticking with Windows for the sake of one program, haha.
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21:46
<sndwrx>
So I also have three other machines that are solely used to access the online catalog through a web browser. I'm wondering if, according to username, I can accomplish the two separate environments with a single LTSP server.
21:46
<vagrantc>
multimedia isn't likely to work well with thin-clients ... fat clients or localapps will likely be needed for that ...the rest depends on your client/server hardware
21:47
sndwrx: what distro?
21:47
<sndwrx>
Despite the name "Overdrive Media Console", it isn't for playback of media content. It's a program used by libraries to facilitate the check-out and download of e-books and audiobooks for patrons to transfer to their e-readers and mp3 players.
21:48
I've read of people successfully running it in Wine, albeit with some slight difficulty.
21:48
I was going to go with Edubuntu simply for the fact that some of the components are already there.
21:49
I loathe rushing through things, but I need to get this deployed as quickly as possible to operate in the interim while there are decisions being made about what course to take for the failed server and some other things.
21:49
<vagrantc>
with *buntu, you could probably put a hook into /etc/X11/Xsession.d/ that tweaks the STARTUP variable
21:50
based on username and such
21:50
<sndwrx>
On my multi-seat terminals I'm just using .xsession files in the user home dir.
21:50
<vagrantc>
i've played tricks with that before to set a hard timeout
21:50
that gives the user the opportunity to edit the .xsession files ...
21:50
and having to keep them in sync
21:51
<sndwrx>
That was a concern I had too, and not that it's bullet proof but I've tried really hard to break out of the browser only environment and haven't found a way.
21:52
Of course that just means the first person to walk up to it will be in in about three seconds. :)
21:52
haha
21:53
<vagrantc>
i never trust the limits of my own imagination with security issues :)
21:53
<sndwrx>
I'll look into the Xsession.d and see what I can come up with, thanks for the suggestion.
21:53
Right, totally understandable.
21:54
Right now I'm downloading Edubuntu and getting ready to build a test environment to see how things work.
21:55
I like 11.10's iTALC integration, but would you recommend going with something older like 10.04 or 10.10?
21:55* vagrantc didn't know italc was still useable
21:55
<vagrantc>
alkisg convinced me to upload epoptes to replace it :)
21:56
<sndwrx>
Oh I hadn't heard of Epoptes.
21:56
Thanks for that.
21:56
<vagrantc>
epoptes.org
21:57* sndwrx nods.
21:57
<sndwrx>
Looks pretty good.
21:58
I especially like the fact that right there near the top of the page it specifically states that it's designed to work in LTSP fat, thin, standalone, NX etc.
21:59
Do you recommend going with an older Edubuntu for a faster deployment simply for the fact that some of the components are in place already, or should I starte with something more like a base Ubuntu Server install?
21:59
Honestly I'm more fond of Debian than Ubuntu, but...
22:00
<vagrantc>
dunno. i'm a debian developer :)
22:00
so i'm a bit biased
22:00* sndwrx nods.
22:01
<vagrantc>
epoptes is developed by LTSP developers, so the support for LTSP should be pretty solid :)
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22:04
<sndwrx>
That's awesome.
22:15
Okay thanks for your time. I haven't eaten in about seven hours, trying to play disaster recovery.
22:15
Time to head home, get dinner, and tinker with LTSP.
22:16
Sorry for the elementary questions. I really have done a fair amount of research and I have a million and one bookmarks in an LTSP directory. I just haven't implemented an LTSP environment yet. :)
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<andygraybeal>
hey guya
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