IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 4 August 2015   (all times are UTC)

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06:35
<suseela_>
how to create a ltsp server??
06:36
<maldridge>
suseela_: need more info than that, and have you read any of the docs yet?
06:38
<suseela_>
maldridge:Not yet..I am planning to install thin clients
06:39
<maldridge>
pretty much you need a box capable of running 24x7 as a server that hosts all the apps/data for users
06:40
without more info that's as specific as I can get
06:40
<suseela_>
maldridge:Can you help me ??
06:41
<maldridge>
suseela_: not without more information
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10:03
<Javier_>
Hi
10:03
i have a few cuestions
10:04
is possible to map a local folder with the server in LTSP?
10:05
Or is possible under windows to map local printers with de linux server???
10:06
now i am using nx client but i am thinking to install a news box with LTSP
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11:06
<Javier_>
hi
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11:38
<highvoltage>
you might have to elaborate slithgly on each of those questions
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12:07
<scs>
can any one help me with an Epoptes problem?
12:07
The clients are connecting to the server but the Epoptes gui does not show any
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12:29
<scs>
Any one?
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12:35
<scs>
Anyone active in here?
12:36
<muppis>
Patience young padawan. I would help, but Epoptes is out of my scope.
12:39
<scs>
Ah, do you know anyone who is?
12:40
I am currently in Africa trying to use Epoptes for classroom managament but no luck so far.
12:41
It used to work when i am connected to a router at my home but now the system is standalone(dhcp on the server enz) it does not work anymore.
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14:05
<alkisg_web>
scs: what exactly is the problem? You don't see any of the epoptes clients?
14:09
<scs>
yeah when the fatclients are booting i see epoptes succesfully connecting to the server (connecting to server:789...done) but in the gui no client is visible
14:10
Also when i start Epoptes from the command line i see "Got clients: None"
14:11
is there some place there i can find logs from the deamon?
14:11
<alkisg_web>
scs, do you have a static ip in your server?
14:12
<scs>
yes and for the clients is use the isc-dhcp-server on the server
14:12
<alkisg_web>
In the clients, did you put the server ip in /etc/hosts?
14:12
With the hostname server? I.e. "1.2.3.4 server" in that file?
14:13
<vagrantc>
alkisg_web, Phantomas: would it make sense to update epoptes soonish?
14:13
<scs>
yes ltsp has done that for me and i checked it server is at ip 192.168.1.5
14:13
<alkisg_web>
Hi vagrantc, yup, we were thinking to upload it around debcamp if it's ok with you
14:13
<Phantomas>
^
14:13
<vagrantc>
alkisg_web: as long as it works :)
14:13
<alkisg_web>
scs, ltsp doesn't change the standalone client's /etc/hosts
14:14* vagrantc plans on catching up with some backlogged LTSP stuff
14:14
<vagrantc>
also, for my transient homedir, libpam-mount provided a perfect solution
14:14
<alkisg_web>
scs, wait, i think I misunderstood, are your clients diskless? are they ltsp fat clients?
14:15
<scs>
is use a fat client that with NDB root
14:15
ah yes
14:15
<vagrantc>
well, i still want the lightdm guestlogin button ... it's annoying to have them enter in "guest" as the username and an empty password.
14:15
<alkisg_web>
vagrantc: what does libpam-mount do? Does it use nfs?
14:15
<vagrantc>
alkisg_web: it mounts whatever you want, in my case, tmpfs.
14:16
<alkisg_web>
scs, do you have a local shell in the clients?
14:16
!screen_02
14:16
<ltsp>
screen_02: To get a root shell on an Ubuntu thin client: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/ClientTroubleshooting#Using_a_shell_SCREEN
14:16
<alkisg_web>
something like this? ^
14:16
<vagrantc>
alkisg_web: easier to mount a tmpfs homedir and unmount it that messing around with rsync and purge and all that
14:16
<alkisg_web>
Ah, tmpfs, ok
14:16
<scs>
i have a local root shell
14:16
<vagrantc>
alkisg_web: and that should work with any pam-respecting display manager, or even console logins
14:17
alkisg_web: it's basically like a kiosk, but with a full desktop
14:17
so resetting homedir on login/logout
14:18
<alkisg_web>
vagrantc: ideally we should have hooks for things like that... before-auth, after-auth etc
14:19
scs, if you run `ping server` there, does it ping the server ip?
14:19
and what happens if you run `epoptes server`?
14:19
<scs>
yes that is no problem, ltsp is working fine
14:19
<alkisg_web>
I'm just checking if the hostname is correct
14:20
<scs>
only epoptes is not showing clients
14:20
<alkisg_web>
It's weird if the clients say "connecting...done" and the server says "got clients...none"
14:20
That should never happen
14:20
And since you don't have any other servers around, we need baby steps in troubleshooting it...
14:21
<scs>
yeah thats what i tought to
14:21
<alkisg_web>
So, back in the client shell, if you run `epoptes-client`, does it again say "connecting to server:789... done"?
14:23
<scs>
oh i need some time to set it up again wait a minute please
14:23
<alkisg_web>
Hmmm I'll need to go soon, maybe we can continue in a couple of hours when I'll be back online
14:24
<vagrantc>
alkisg_web: what's cool is because we're hooking into pam it's kind of "right in the middle of auth"
14:24
alkisg_web: er, because I'm hooking into pam
14:25
<alkisg_web>
Yup, it's a good place to have a hook. We also had such hooks in ldm though, yet they were not portable...
14:26* alkisg_web waves, bb later...
14:26* vagrantc waves
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14:27
<vagrantc>
scs: are the versions of epoptes-client and epoptes the same?
14:28
<scs>
i dont know but is asume so, i use pinet to set everything up, let me check
14:40
<Phantomas>
scs: Could you please pastebin your /var/log/epoptes.log?
14:42
<scs>
it is on a diffrent pc but let me try
14:42
how do i get the version of the client ?
14:45
the log:
14:45
2015-04-16 00:34:09-0700 [-] Log opened. 2015-04-16 00:34:09-0700 [-] twistd 13.2.0 (/usr/bin/python 2.7.6) starting up. 2015-04-16 00:34:09-0700 [-] reactor class: twisted.internet.epollreactor.EPollReactor. 2015-04-16 00:34:09-0700 [-] Traceback (most recent call last): 2015-04-16 00:34:09-0700 [-] File "/usr/bin/twistd", line 14, in <module> 2015-04-16 00:34:09-0700 [-] run() 2015-04-16 00:34:09-0700 [-] File "/usr/lib/python2.7/di
14:46
sorry i still had the log on clipboard
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14:46
<scs>
my internet is real bad so in need a minute
14:46
<Phantomas>
I'll be right here :)
14:47
you can also use the pastebinit command if it makes it easier for you
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14:50
<Phantomas>
vagrantc: For a pretty long-term change, would it be easy to have 3 epoptes packages instead of 2? I'm planning to make the GUI/control part of epoptes a different package from the actual epoptes daemon
14:50
So it would be: epoptes-service, epoptes-client, epoptes-control
14:51
<vagrantc>
Phantomas: sounds like a good change!
14:52
<Phantomas>
Great, was thinking the same!
14:52
<vagrantc>
Phantomas: as long as it's clear what gets installed in which package, and there are no file conflicts, it should be easy.
14:53
<scs>
pastebin.com/LLqnMviE
14:53
<Phantomas>
one problem will be that epoptes-control and epoptes-service will need to share a file, commands.py, which defines the actual communication protocol
14:53
<scs>
that is the log
14:53
<Phantomas>
will that need a fourth package? That sounds alot for 1 common file doesn't it?
14:54* Phantomas admits that is almost clueless of packaging :(
14:54
<Phantomas>
scs: Let me check it
14:54
<vagrantc>
Phantomas: you could also do like we do in debian, where we install the same file, but with a different filename.
14:54
Phantomas: er, like in ltsp
14:56
<Phantomas>
vagrantc: I don't think that'll solve it. epoptes-service needs to "import commands", epoptes-control needs to "import commands" too. Same file, we actually prefer the same filename
14:57
We could probably copy the same file to both -service and -control trees, but that doesn't sound very good for version controlling, I think
14:57
I'm a bit confused on that :(
14:57
<vagrantc>
Phantomas: if you can't rename the file, then you'll need a fourth package
14:58
Phantomas: what about "import server-commands as commands" and "import control-commands as commands" ?
14:59* vagrantc might not have the syntax perfect
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14:59
<Phantomas>
How would that work though? I mean, in which package would the commands.py be?
14:59
<vagrantc>
Phantomas: it's something to think over...
14:59
Phantomas: there would be server-commands.py and control-commands.py, which happen to be the same file
15:00
Phantomas: just copied to two different packages
15:00
<Phantomas>
oh, yea so what I said about the same file to both trees
15:00
or you can copy it at debian packaging stage?
15:00
<vagrantc>
Phantomas: might be able to copy it in at package build-time.
15:00
<Phantomas>
oh, that sounds good then!
15:00
<vagrantc>
will look into it
15:01
<Phantomas>
Thank you, if you find a positive result please let me know if a specific tree format or anything else on my side could help
15:01
<vagrantc>
if you use python-distutils or whatever for the packaging "upstream" might take some hackery to get right.
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15:03
<vagrantc>
Phantomas: will you have some time the next week to go over it? I'm planning on working on ltsp and related things for several days from the 10th-14th
15:04
<Phantomas>
Yes, I'll be available
15:04
<aat>
hello all, tried to put up ltsp-on lubuntu desktop... it seams tftp is not running... but i can not figure out why
15:07
ditto dhcp - sometimes works sometimes not... now client receives via pxe an ip, then -timeout tftp
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15:12
<scs>
did you see any errors in the log file?
15:13
<aat>
i could not find the log...except dmesg
15:13
there was no file callec ...syslog... like in doc
15:14
<scs>
i mean the epoptes.log
15:14
Phantomas?
15:14
<aat>
sorry. different talk
15:15
<scs>
I am currently reinstalling epoptes
15:15
haha no problem
15:16
<aat>
i am at the beginning with ltsp - epoptes not using now - as far as i know :-)
15:17
<scs>
ah, i try tu use it but it's currently not working
15:18
<aat>
exit
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15:26
<scs>
epoptes client is v0.5.6 and server is v0.5.7 can that be any problem?
15:26
<vagrantc>
yes
15:26
need to be the same upstream version
15:28
<scs>
oke than is shall see if i can get both systems at the same version
15:29
is epoptes arch independent? it is written in python right?
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15:56
<BuddyButterfly>
hi
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15:57
<BuddyButterfly>
how is it possible to create an image out of an existing installation. I have copied the existing installation into a directory on ltsp server. now I would like to put it into the chroot and create a bootable image.
15:58
what is the best way to achieve this?
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15:59
<BuddyButterfly>
wiping the chroot and copying the system into it does not work. Will it work if one does a ltsp-build-client and overwrites with the new system? Even better would be to know what should not be overwritten.
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16:21
<vagrantc>
BuddyButterfly: you're basically talking about the ltsp-pnp method of creating images
16:21
!ltsp-pnp | echo BuddyButterfly
16:21
<ltsp>
BuddyButterfly ltsp-pnp: ltsp-pnp is an alternative (upstream) method to maintain LTSP installations for thin and fat clients that doesn't involve chroots: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/ltsp-pnp
16:22
<vagrantc>
BuddyButterfly: it doesn't use chroots, it just builds the LTSP image out of the running server.
16:37
<BuddyButterfly>
vagrantc: hi, sry, was afk...
16:38
vagrantc: wow, that sounds cool. will have a look at it. I am a newbie as you probably already recognized.
16:39
vagrantc: tnx a lot for tip
16:46
vagrantc: so basically this means I have to install ltsp on the desired os, create an image and transport it to the ltsp server?
16:48
<vagrantc>
BuddyButterfly: well, the ltsp-pnp method you use the server as the base os.
16:48
BuddyButterfly: you install and configure whatever you want on the LTSP server, and make an image out of it.
16:49
BuddyButterfly: you could copy that image over to another server, but that's generally more trouble than it's worth
16:49
<BuddyButterfly>
vagrantc: hmmm. the scenario would be to have one ltsp server, put images of existing systems on it (xubuntu, mint, kubunt, ubuntu server, etc.) and let the clients choose what to boot.
16:49
<vagrantc>
well, xubunut, kubuntu, ubuntu are all just package selections of the same thing
16:50
but you could have multiple images on the same server ... i wouldn't recommend it for a newbie.
16:50
<BuddyButterfly>
yes, they are only the base systems. but the do have different package installations, like only packages for office, science areas etc. Some do have some special development settings etc.
16:51
<vagrantc>
there are enough challenges getting a basic system up and running.
16:52
<BuddyButterfly>
ok. then it is maybe more efficient to focus on docker.
16:52
<vagrantc>
what's your actual goal?
16:53
<BuddyButterfly>
centralizing systems of specific types, hand them out and keep them up to date / extend on demand.
16:53
hand them out to multiple clients.
16:54
important point is to be flexible in changing the "base system" and clients just boot and have the latest configs/packages, etc.
16:55
<vagrantc>
certainly possible with LTSP...
16:56
though i strongly encourage people to learn more basic setup before embarking on something complicated
16:56
<BuddyButterfly>
I never thought, it would be that comlicated, as you tell.
16:56
<vagrantc>
e.g. learn to walk before running or flying
16:57
<BuddyButterfly>
interesting.
16:58
<vagrantc>
honestly, i'd recommend using a virtual server of each environment, and selecting which to boot from using a PXE menu.
16:58
that'd be a lot easier to set up.
16:58
<BuddyButterfly>
this is how it is with requirements. Sometimes the easiest requirements, formulated in one sentence result in complex systems. Telling the guys who have this requirements to learn walking first will lead to nowhere
16:59
btw. I am here to find the strategy. If this is way too complicated, it'll get no try.
17:00
vagrantc: ah, ok, so you are suggesting a ltsp-pnp server for each type and make them all selectable at boot time.
17:00
<vagrantc>
BuddyButterfly: yes.
17:01
<BuddyButterfly>
wouldn't that make trouble with a central dhcp and dns server with all that different dns proxies? Has this been tested?
17:01
<vagrantc>
BuddyButterfly: i have no idea what complicated is to you, so i'm merely giving simple advice...
17:02
BuddyButterfly: no idea what you're talking about regarding dhcp and dns server issues...
17:02
<BuddyButterfly>
as I read from your link, ltsp-pnp is setting up a proxy dns... if this will work, then it is a goable solution
17:02
<vagrantc>
ah, you don't have to set up all that ltsp-pnp stuff for it to work
17:03
<BuddyButterfly>
from your link: ....nd a single-NIC setup with an external DHCP server (e.g. a router) is recommended (but not required) as it uses dnsmasq in proxyDHCP mode.
17:03
<vagrantc>
i was mostly referring to building the client image ... the other stuff is, in my opinion, optional
17:03
you don't *have* to use ProxyDHCP to use the chrootless LTSP method.
17:04
<BuddyButterfly>
ok. must I use if I have a central dhcp?
17:04
<vagrantc>
unfortunately, we haven't come up with good terminology to distingush between the full-blow LTSP-PNP method and just parts of it.
17:04
if you don't have control of the DHCP server, you'll basically need to use ProxyDHCP.
17:05
if you don't have control of the DHCP server, this will get *really* complicated.
17:05
<BuddyButterfly>
I have control over the dhcp and dns. so I could do the pxe boot settings there. I have central dns and dhcp with ddns
17:06
<vagrantc>
well, good luck, i need to spend time on other things...
17:07
<BuddyButterfly>
ok, tnx for the hints.
17:07
will see how I can get this to run.
17:08
<vagrantc>
but seriously, try a basic environment first ... just basic rules of troubleshooting and all that.
17:09
<BuddyButterfly>
I will clone a vm for that and make it ltsp-pnp
17:36
vagrantc: would you agree on that scenario: 1. Install lts-pnp on copied vm without dnsmasq etc. 2. Look at generated pxe boot config. 3. Use config to create menu base pxe at cental dhcp like here https://help.ubuntu.com/community/PXEInstallMultiDistro 4. Put another system and another menu entry.....
17:37
sounds not very complicated.
17:38
<vagrantc>
complicated is a matter of individual experience...
17:38
<BuddyButterfly>
true
17:39
<vagrantc>
the complicated part with something like that is copying all the boot files over to a single server...
17:39
i find it all fairly easy to do and support, but i've been doing this sort of thing for around 15 years now...
17:39
<BuddyButterfly>
vagrantc: I wouldn't do that. just run all the systems as separate ltsp image servers.
17:41
<vagrantc>
well, step 3 above won't support that.
17:41
<BuddyButterfly>
pxe menus point at these image servers and they can be kept up to date and image created accordingly.
17:42
<vagrantc>
that's a pxelinux menu, not a PXE menu.
17:42
pxelinux requires all the kernels, initrd's, etc to be on the same server providing the menu
17:42
<BuddyButterfly>
yep, wording.... you are right.
17:43
oh that is not nice.
17:43
<vagrantc>
whereas PXE menus allow selecting different servers to boot from.
17:43
but the menu interface is implemented by your network card in that case...
17:43
<BuddyButterfly>
you are m aking me confused.
17:43
<vagrantc>
like i said, start with a single server setup.
17:44
good luck!
17:44
<BuddyButterfly>
will do of course. but must have also the long running target.
17:44
<vagrantc>
you can't build a skyscraper by starting with the roof.
17:45
<BuddyButterfly>
its like flight navigation. I have to do the planning until the target and not just start flying to the first fix.
17:46
but this is more like people start with things. I know, a lot of people just start running....
17:46
<vagrantc>
sure, there's a lot to be said for planning, but overengineering a conceptual design without understanding the basics is, in my opinion, a huge amount of resources invested in something that may have flawed design premises
17:46
<BuddyButterfly>
I know a joke of this kind....
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17:48
<BuddyButterfly>
dad bull and son bull are standing on top of a hill. son bull sees a cow flock and says "dad, lets run down and fuck one of this cows....". Dad answers and says "no, son, we will go down slowly and fuck them all" ;-)
17:49
I am just on the way, understanding the basics.
17:49
therefore I will walk slowly ;_)
18:00
think there is no need for images to be copied over with pxelinux in front if going over nfs share.
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20:28
<Kay>
Is there a way to set up a LTSP mac server?
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