IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)


Channel log from 7 September 2009   (all times are UTC)

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03:55
<ftherese>
Would anyone know why the desktop shortcuts for localapps might be broken? They were working fine, and then I installed the locales and they don't work anymore
03:56
are there certain files I should be checking?
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03:58
<ftherese>
actually the only ones that broke were the wine ones...
04:01
but they worked before I installed the language packs on the chroot
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05:29
<ogra>
\o/
05:29
my flight and rental car to BTS are booked :)
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08:12
<alkisg>
ogra, ogra_, any news on when will arm netbooks be available to consumers?
08:13
About 120.000 Greek students are going to be given a netbook this year...
08:14
<ogra>
no, probably around christmas
08:14
<alkisg>
Ah too late :( :(
08:14
I think the program finishes at the end of November
08:15
<ogra>
with luck you might see the first ones in november ... in small quantities and only available in asia for the start
08:16
<alkisg>
Got it... :( thanks!
08:18
<ogra>
i know about one very big manufacturer who plans to ship them in big amounts, but i have no idea when
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08:20
<ogra>
grr
08:20
i know about one very big manufacturer who plans to ship them in big amounts, but i have no idea when
08:21
<alkisg>
Unfortunately it'll be too late, they're planning to use the netbooks this school year
08:21
<nubae>
alkisg: oh really... Greece too eh?
08:22
<alkisg>
nubae: yup, and fortunately the specs say the netbooks have to be dual boot with ubuntu
08:22
<nubae>
alkisg: I can give u all the info on what netbooks are hitting the Spanish markets
08:22
<ogra>
yes, that manufacturer likely wont have anything shippable before next year
08:22
<alkisg>
I hope we can use them next year, with ubuntu only
08:22
<ogra>
but they are big enough to offer them worldwide (amd to my knowledge they plan to in really large amounts)
08:22
*and
08:22
<alkisg>
I've published all the necessary edu* packages to a repo, so the software isn't a problem
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08:23
<nubae>
wonder if that will prompt canonical to see some market potential in the edu sector again...
08:23
<ogra>
canonical does a lot in the edu sector
08:24
<alkisg>
ogra, is there any flash available for arm? (in a working state?)
08:24
<ogra>
yes
08:24
<nubae>
:-) You know what I mean...
08:24
<ogra>
but not freely distributable
08:24
<alkisg>
Nice, as most edu apps here are based on flash
08:24
No problem, they can install the flashplugin or whatever it's called manually, I imagine...
08:24
<ogra>
nubae, canonical does about 5-10 times times as much in edu today than it did when i was working on edubuntu
08:25
its just less visible and way way bigger projects
08:25
alkisg, no, i mean not downloadable at all
08:25
<nubae>
then it does a very bad job of advertising that, because at least to the edu distros I'm involved with, the thoughts are they ignore that market
08:25
<alkisg>
Ah. So we need to contact adobe to get it?
08:25
Or canonical?
08:25
<ogra>
alkisg, adobe requires the manufacutrers to make contracts etc
08:26
<nubae>
i guess if its oem stuff, we won't hear about it
08:26
<ogra>
not canonical ... but the OEMs
08:26
<alkisg>
Got it.
08:26
<ogra>
it will be preinstalled on all netbooks that ship with ubuntu
08:26
but you wont be able to install it yourself
08:26
because you cant download it
08:27
<nubae>
wow cripleware... sounds a lot like windows
08:27
<ogra>
nubae, complain at adobe
08:27
i dont make the licenses
08:28
<nubae>
sadly, I dont think they care for my complaints :-(
08:28
<ogra>
and canonical has no influence on that
08:29
<nubae>
is gnash progressing at all?
08:29
i mean is it a viable alternative?
08:29
<ogra>
as long as you have things like the iphone and big companies like apple paying millions for flash on arm i doubt adobe will even remotely think about giving it away for free
08:30
gnash is so so ...
08:30
and they are broke atm
08:30
<nubae>
its actually worse than microsoft... its a true abuse of power
08:30
<ogra>
so development is very slow
08:30
<alkisg>
Ah right, gnash may work on some flash edu apps too
08:31
<ogra>
make donations to speed it up ;)
08:31
there is also swfdec ...
08:32
<nubae>
well it would be an idea for some of the bigger edu distros... thats kinda what happened with crossover/wine
08:32
<ogra>
??
08:32
<nubae>
not edu backed though
08:32* ogra wonders what you mean
08:32
<nubae>
most backing came from hollywood studios
08:33
<ogra>
crossover is a commercial development on top of the free wine
08:33
it always was
08:33
<nubae>
who needed things like photoshop
08:33
yeah i know
08:33
but it funds wine development big time
08:33
<ogra>
and they always had the philosophy to develop stuff in crossover first, make money out of it and only then ship the code back into wine
08:34
i dont think thats comparable
08:34
<nubae>
I heard that the code was pretty much identical, that wine in crossover = regular wine
08:34
<ogra>
right
08:34
<nubae>
then?
08:34
<ogra>
plus the added up code you get in a new crossover version
08:34
that will only show up in the next wine version
08:35
its synced back into wine, but with a delay where they earn money out of it
08:35
<nubae>
I was not aware of a delay, but it makes sense
08:35
<ogra>
its a clever business model
08:36
and they do it like that since day one i think
08:36* ogra takes a break
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10:04
<garymc>
hi i need some help/advice
10:05
I listen to audio through Movieplayer over the LTSP server Ubuntu on my thin clinet. It works a couple of times then just plays silence? anyone know why this is
10:05
To get it to work again i have to shut down my thin client and start it up again
10:05
works ok for a little while then silence
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10:56
<garymc>
Ogra: would you know why my Sound players only work a couple of times then stop working until I reboot my thin client. LTSP Ubuntu 9.04
11:09
<planxa>
garymc: Is your ubuntu 9.04 the desktop version or server ?
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11:13
<garymc>
I think it is server?
11:14
LTSP Alternate disk was used
11:14
<stgraber>
ogra: yeah, will be good to see you at BTS
11:14
<planxa>
ok
11:19
<SeaweedStardom>
win 15
11:23
<planxa>
can operate in jaunty ltsp 9.04 Desktop?
11:43
<garymc>
it operates but its not that good.
11:43
I loginto the server with a thin clinet
11:43
lient*
11:43
C
11:43
it could be my thin client?
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11:57
<stgraber>
vagrantc: I pushed a new ltsp and ldm in Ubuntu yesterday, ldm including your packaging changes.
11:58
vagrantc: just wondering, what kind of delta do we have between debian and ubuntu for ltsp itself ?
11:59
<vagrantc>
stgraber: the ltsp delta is getting a little ugly
11:59
the changelog is of course really messy
11:59
but there's a lot of other diffs too
11:59
<johnny>
stgraber, vagrantc what can we rely on to give a generalized system report format to make it easier to notice issues without lots of questions
11:59
i know fedora has smolt.. and ubuntu has something
11:59
but we also need info from changelog
11:59
would be nice to just say.. run this command
12:00
and it automatically pastes it to the ltsp pastebin
12:00
optionally anyways
12:00
distro, chroot distro, pulse version, arch, that kinda thing
12:01
<stgraber>
vagrantc: I recently got rid of all the init scripts hack in Ubuntu and some additional initramfs-scripts I had, should be a bit cleaner now, though I suspect you are using dh7 in Debian ?
12:01
<vagrantc>
stgraber: yeah, switched to dh7
12:01
<stgraber>
johnny: to debug from the server or on the thin client itself ?
12:02
<vagrantc>
stgraber: it's been on my todo list to make a sync branch for ltsp as well that you could hopefully merge without too much distruption
12:02
<johnny>
stgraber, no.. just to provde info to us people who are trying to help people
12:02
like alsa has that one script
12:02
that generates a report with driver version, driver, etc..
12:02
so they don't have to ask same question every single time
12:02
and in gentoo.. bug reports almost always require the output of "emerge info"
12:03
<stgraber>
vagrantc: well, at least we are using similar packaging for ldm and ltspfs, that's a start :)
12:03
<vagrantc>
stgraber: right
12:03
<stgraber>
johnny: dpkg -l would probably provide the same kind of information
12:03
johnny: (list of all packages and versions)
12:03
<johnny>
stgraber, sure.. but it must work on other system
12:03
stgraber, but also distro..
12:03
so it needs to do lsb-release too.. plus.. it needs to work on every distro.. so needs plugins
12:03
<vagrantc>
stgraber: i don't know what's considered best practice for weather or not it makes sense to merge changelog entries...
12:04
<stgraber>
right, I doubt we can find a tool that'd work on all distro
12:04
<johnny>
stgraber, we wrap it
12:04
<vagrantc>
stgraber: but that would sure shrink the diff
12:04
<johnny>
just like everyrthing else.. same info is always available on all distro on some fashion
12:05
<stgraber>
vagrantc: I'm not sure what would happen on LP if changelog entries disappear as we have a full history of all package builds, and binary packages on it :)
12:05
<vagrantc>
stgraber: well, ltspfs was synced, and i don't think it contains the old changelog entries?
12:06
<stgraber>
johnny: that might just be a few changes to ltsp-build-client to generate a log file that one could attach to bug reports
12:06
<vagrantc>
stgraber: in the past, we just merged all the changelog entries from ubuntu and debian together, so we'd have the changelog entries from both distros in the same file ...
12:06
<johnny>
stgraber, should be a seperate command
12:06
so people don't have to run command every time
12:06
err try to build
12:06
ltsp-<tab> should show it
12:06
<vagrantc>
"i upgraded, and it stopped working" would necessitate a different command
12:08
<stgraber>
vagrantc: I guess we do it two different ways in Ubuntu, some get a diff from debian, ignore the changelog and merge the rest (listing the changes in the changelog entry). Some others simply drop the Ubuntu changelog, take the debian packaging and add an ubuntu entry on top of that for the ubuntu-specific changes
12:09
I tend to do the former so I can keep the whole Ubuntu history but still show what I merged from Debian but that makes automatic merging (like branch merging with bzr) a bit harder
12:10
though, it's usually a bzr merge, bzr revert on debian/changelog and bzr resolve on debian/changelog (so merging everything but keeping debian/changelog and ignoring the conflicts on that file)
12:10
<vagrantc>
sure
12:10
<stgraber>
then look at what changed in Debian and add that in the next changelog entry ("Merged packaging changes from Debian:", bullet-point list)
12:11
<vagrantc>
stgraber: i'm kind of thinking of switching back to having the upstream and debian dir in one source repository... a repository branched off of upstream that never gets merged into upstream.
12:11
stgraber: and just merge new upstream versions into it and such
12:13
<stgraber>
well, I'm not sure what would be the benifit ? not having to copy debian/ from a separate branch into the uncompressed .orig.tar.gz ?
12:14
*benefit
12:14
<vagrantc>
stgraber: yeah, pretty much.
12:16
stgraber: and you maintain your branch as a debian sub-dir, whereas i maintain it as a top-level dir. :)
12:16
stgraber: not a big deal, since they're not mergeable
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12:18
<vagrantc>
stgraber: heh. i just uploaded ldm 2.0.45 with the fatclient patches applied
12:19
<stgraber>
I did ldm-2.0.46 to avoid patching 2.0.45 :)
12:19
<NeonLicht>
Hey vagrantc!
12:19
Is it possible to select "fat client" from LDM or something like that now?
12:20
<stgraber>
no but if you have a whole desktop installed in your chroot, you can set LTSP_FATCLIENT=true in your lts.conf
12:20
<NeonLicht>
stgraber: and that's all needed to run fat clients?
12:20
<stgraber>
well, as long as you have a desktop installed in your chroot, yes
12:20
<NeonLicht>
Really cool :)
12:21
I have thin clients powerful enought to put some weight on :)
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12:57
<nubae>
stgraber, what takes care of sound, printer support, etc?
12:58
<vagrantc>
NeonLicht: yeah, there's surely some problems to work out, but it's really a simple patch to ldm to get most of the fatclient features
12:59
nubae: sound should be the same as remote, only less network latency, since it's local
13:00
not sure about printers ... localdevs need some work to get properly functional.
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13:00
<nubae>
I had to run a local pulse server for sound, and reroute cups locally, they are trivial pieces of code really though
13:01
I'd imagine local apps already has it implemented so strgraber probably has it integrated when building the fat client
13:04
<stgraber>
I run with the exact same environment as localapps
13:05
anything that works with localapps will work with fatclient
13:07
<vagrantc>
in fact, LTSP_FATCLIENT assumes LOCAL_APPS=true
13:07
it'll break if LOCAL_APPS=false
13:07
namely, the home directory via sshfs
13:09
<nubae>
ah cool, I can't remember if local printing was ever implemented in local apps?
13:09
I guess it was
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13:22
<stgraber>
vagrantc: indeed
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13:37
<NeonLicht>
great, vagrantc, it sounds really good!
13:38
<vagrantc>
all that time i spend at debconf messing around with "nodm" seems foolish now :)
13:38
although, i bet nodm still starts faster if you just use it for autologin and such
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14:21
<alkisg>
Is ltsp accepting donations somehow?
14:27
<vagrantc>
i don't know that there is a non-profit or charitable organization for ltsp.
14:30
<alkisg>
:( some guy I helped asked on where to send a donation, and I thought about ltsp...
14:31
<johnny>
isn't there some umbrella organization that will help with that?
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15:27
<zamba>
i see a message on the mailing list where someone has been using local apps.. is it possible to do this per machine?
15:27
but you still include the binaries in the image?
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15:32
<johnny>
sure.. you can disable local apps per machine
15:32
via lts.conf
15:32
but the image will contain all the binaries
15:33
otherwise yo'ud need to do a seperate chroot for each.. and that is probably not worth the hassle
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15:57
<nubae>
hey johnny, did u take a look at my app?
15:57
I wanted to pick u're brain about the xmpp parts
15:57
as u are the best xmpp expert I know
15:58
I'm not sure to what extent u have coded xmpp for collaboration into apps
15:58
<johnny>
not at all
15:58
<nubae>
but I have a methodology that explains what I want to do...
15:58
<johnny>
the best place for advice would be jdev@conference.jabber.org
15:58
i'm in there as well
15:58
<nubae>
I'll paste it to u privately... just give me u're thoughts
15:59
oh, I'll join that
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17:09
<moldy>
ogra: ping :)
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17:47
<petre>
is X4_MODULE_01 still a valid parameter in lts.conf for ltsp 5?
17:49
<vagrantc>
!docs
17:49
<ltspbot>
vagrantc: "docs" is For the most current documentation, see http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/LtspDocumentationUpstream
17:51
<vagrantc>
petre: i think it's just X_MODULE_nn now
17:58
<petre>
vagrantc, ok, tx. BTW, are you still in Portland these days?
17:59
<vagrantc>
petre: yeah, where you at?
17:59
<petre>
Minneapolis.
18:00
I saw the notice about LTSP by the Sea on the website.
18:00
I can't afford to go this year, no time off nor money.
18:00
<vagrantc>
yeah, similar here. if it were nearer portland, oregon, i'd have a chance :)
18:01
<petre>
But by next spring (April) I should be able to swing a trip out west, so I was thinking of trying to get jammcq et al to do something, say, around Linux Fest NW.
18:01
<vagrantc>
just the wrong sea for me
18:01
<petre>
How far are you from Seattle?
18:01
<vagrantc>
it's 3-5 hours by car, depending on traffic
18:02* vagrantc would likely take the train, if the chance presented itself
18:03
<vagrantc>
petre: if you do make it to portland, be sure to check out freegeek :)
18:03
<petre>
vagrantc, oh definitely
18:04
brb
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18:26
<petre>
vagrantc, didn't you host some sort of ltsp hackfest at freegeek a year or two ago?
18:34
<vagrantc>
petre: yeah, i think it was july or august 2008
18:34
petre: i'd be happy to host something similar again, if people were interested
18:36
<petre>
well, *I'm* interested, but I don't carry much weight ;-)
18:37
I was thinking about it because Robert Arkiletian, author of fl_teachertool, who I'm working with ATM to get fl_tt working w/ltsp 5, lives in vancouver
18:37
Maine is too far/expensive for him.
18:37
<vagrantc>
petre: vancouver, wa?
18:37
<petre>
vancouver, BC
18:37
Canadian
18:38
<vagrantc>
got it
18:38
there's a freegeek up there too
18:38
think they're an LTSP shop
18:39* vagrantc needs to disappear soon
18:39
<petre>
ooh, perhaps there should be an ltsp hackfest there; why should the US get all the fun. ;-)
18:42* vagrantc waves
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19:09
<stgraber>
petre: yeah, would be nive to avoid having to go through immigration for once ;)
19:09
not that I don't like US customs :)
19:13
<petre>
stgraber, My passport is valid for another year; just got back from Denmark.
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19:14
<petre>
There are enough Canadians involved with ltsp that it seems we should have a conference there sometime.
19:14
<stgraber>
mine is ok for 3 more years, then renewed for 10 more, though I still have to fill some paperwork everytime I enter the US ...
19:14
<petre>
Actually, I think there was one courtesy of Ubuntu (in Montreal?)
19:14
a few years ago.
19:15
<stgraber>
yeah, during the Ubuntu developer summit
19:16
we could organize something at sbalneav's, that's pretty much in the middle :)
19:17
<petre>
stgraber, you're close enough to Maine that you can drive there; but I think it's been a couple of years since there was something on the west coast, so maybe there should be a hackfest in western Canada
19:19
<stgraber>
sure, I actually liked the idea of having two hackfests a year, makes things go a bit faster I believe
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