IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 24 February 2012   (all times are UTC)

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00:49
<pem725>
is there a problem with a dual nic setup where the internet nic is eth0 and the lan (ltsp) nic is eth1?
00:50
<vagrantc>
pem725: shouldn't matter at all.
00:50
<pem725>
good
00:50
so if I just change the dhcpd server listen nic, all should be fine?
00:50
<vagrantc>
yes.
00:50
<pem725>
great
00:50
thanks for the lightning fast reply.
00:53
vangrantc: if I build both i386 and amd64 clients, do I need to edit anything for this mixed environment or does pxe handle the requests appropriately?
00:56
<vagrantc>
pem725: it's not handled automatically
00:57
<pem725>
I figured as much
00:57
so I need to edit the dhcpd.conf file, right?
00:57
<vagrantc>
i was thinking about handling i386/pae/amd64 detection in pxelinux just the other day, though.
00:57
<pem725>
actually, are there docs online to guide me through this mixed client config?
00:57
<vagrantc>
pem725: either that, or set up a custom pxelinux configuration and have that have the autodetection
00:58
using pxelinux with ifcpu64.cfg should do the trick fairly easily.
00:58
er, ifcpu64.m32, i think it's called.
00:58
<pem725>
ok
01:03
I see the ifcpu64.c32 setup for syslinux (via the pxelinux.cfg) but I am not sure that this works with my dhcpd.conf setup.
01:04
can I specify different root-paths for i386 and amd64?
01:04
sorry to bombard you with all these questions.
01:06
<vagrantc>
pem725: you'd have to specify the boot options in each configuration file
01:06
pem725: what distro?
01:06
<pem725>
ubuntu 11.10
01:07
do you have an example of these boot options?
01:07
<vagrantc>
pem725: look in /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386 for the i386 ones, and amd64 for the amd64 ones :)
01:07
<pem725>
that is...an example of a dhcpd.conf file where i386 and amd64 clients boot in a ltsp.
01:07
ok
01:08
<vagrantc>
i would set it up to use /var/lib/tftpboot/pxelinux.0 and then have /var/lib/tftpboot/pxelinux.cfg/default have some ifcpu64.m32 lines with different boot options
01:08
<pem725>
ah!
01:08
got it
01:08
thanks.
01:08
that should be a good start
01:09
<vagrantc>
that way you don't have to mess with dhcp more than once.
01:09
and the cpu detection is handled at boot time when it loads pxelinux
01:11
<pem725>
so the root-path in dhcpd.conf is just /opt/ltsp or something else?
01:12
<vagrantc>
root-path isn't really used on ubuntu, it uses NBD
01:12
<pem725>
ok
01:12
so I can comment that out.
01:12
<vagrantc>
unless you've switched it to NFS?
01:12
<pem725>
nope
01:12
still using NBD
01:12
figured that was easiest
01:13* vagrantc doesn't even know if it's possible with ubuntu to switch back to NFS ... but it should be possible for precise!
01:15
<pem725>
do I copy the pxelinux.0 file from the amd64 or the i386 directory? or does it matter?
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01:22
<vagrantc>
shouldn't matter.
01:23
<pem725>
great
02:27
<vagrantc>
ok, tomorrow i try and fix ltspfs and upload to debian, and test out ldm and upload to debian.
02:27
and then ubuntu can sync.
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04:16
<bakytn>
how would you load balance boot server? TFTP and NBD?
04:16
would you mind to provide any link or directions
04:17
I think I can now seperate NBD/TFTP/DHCP into three different servers
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05:46
<Jon-->
I just wanted to say thank you to anyone in here who may be a developer or contributer to ltsp. You guys/gals made my life a lot easier the last couple of days.
05:49
<alkisg>
Did you solve your unity problem?
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05:55
<Jon-->
alkisg, I just dropped a script into /usr/share/gnome I believe. Ran gnome-panel.
05:55
After pausing for a few seconds
05:55
<alkisg>
Ah, ok, temp workaround
05:55
<Jon-->
Seems to work fine.
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05:59
<Jon--_>
Damn wireless cut out
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08:28
<asmok>
I did try ltsp-cluster for 12.04, two servers (root- and application-server) and thin client all are in Virtualbox.
08:28
i'm almost there. I filed this bug:
08:29
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ltsp-cluster-lbserver/+bug/938034
08:29
Anyone has time to check that one?
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09:16
<Q-FUNK>
with 5.3.2, do we still need those 3 inetd.conf entries? I thought that everything was done via NBD configs, now?
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09:56
<Q-FUNK>
alkisg: do we dare ship a ready-to-use /etc/dnsmasq.d/ltsp.conf that matches the features of isp-dhcp-server and hpa-tfpd ?
09:56
<alkisg>
Q-FUNK: for packaging questions, I'm not the right person
09:56
I would create a package for ltsp-server-dnsmasq instead though
09:57
Which would recommend dnsmasq, and would contain that file too, and even put the proxydhcp range on postinst
09:59
<Q-FUNK>
alkisg: this could work too, but it would required renaming ltsp-server-standalone
09:59
to ltsp-server-standalone-dhcp-tftp and make that one pull hpa-tftpd and isc-dhcp-server,
09:59
while ltsp-server-standalone-dnsmasq would pull nothing but it would enable the config dir and installa config there.
10:00
come to think of it, ltsp-server would need to Depends on ltsp-server-standalone-dhcpd-tftpd | ltsp-server-dnsmasq
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10:03
<alkisg>
Q-FUNK: why would ltsp-server depend on that?
10:04
ltsp-server can be used on setups where the dhcp/tftp etc servers are elsewhere
10:04
Or configured manually
10:04
Also, I don't like very big names, I'd drop the "standalone" part of the package names
10:05
Also I wouldn't mind if we only had ltsp-server, but with the appropriate postinst hooks that would work for dhcpd/tftpd-hpa/dnsmasq and more cases
10:05
So one would do: sudo apt-get install dnsmasq ltsp-server,
10:06
and another one would do: sudo apt-get install isc-dhcp-server tftpd-hpa ltsp-server
10:06
...and both would get working configuration
10:06
<Q-FUNK>
that would work too. to detect which servers we have via postinst
10:07
<alkisg>
But all those packaging topics should be discussed with stgraber and vagrantc, not me :)
10:09
<Q-FUNK>
ok :)
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10:49
<dobber>
!glx
10:49
<ltsp>
dobber: I do not know about 'glx', but I do know about these similar topics: 'gpxe', 'g'
10:52
<dobber>
can i install both nvidia and fglrx and intel drivers at the same time
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10:55
<dobber>
how do I configure X with GLX ?
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11:04
<Hyperbyte>
dobber, I don't see why you couldn't install two drivers (kernel modules) at the same time. Linux doesn't load every installed driver (by default it comes with hundreds of kernel modules). It will only load the ones that work with the hardware in the system.
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11:06
<dobber>
how do i configure X, there is no xorg.conf ;(
11:06
extension "GLX" missing on display
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11:15
<srdjo>
hi all
11:15
I just finished making image for my Ubuntu 11.10 LTSP Server FAT clients
11:16
and all works
11:16
except local printers
11:16
<alkisg>
Try setting CUPS_SERVER=localhost in lts.conf
11:16
<srdjo>
how to install local printers on Fat client ?
11:16
<alkisg>
Not sure if it will work, but worth a try
11:16
<srdjo>
i will try it now
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11:43
<srdjo>
now i can get to the printer screen
11:43
but when I try to add printer
11:43
it asks for username and password
11:44
what is ltsp root account password ?
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11:44
<Hyperbyte>
srdjo, there is none. If you want a root login on your thin client, use:
11:44
!screen_02
11:44
<ltsp>
Hyperbyte: screen_02: To get a root shell on an Ubuntu thin client: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/ClientTroubleshooting#Using_a_shell_SCREEN
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11:51
<dobber>
still no luck with GLX on fat client :(
11:51
on ubuntu 11.10
11:52
<alkisg>
dobber: glx is automatically loaded if the client supports it. What graphics card do you have?
11:52
(on the client)
11:52
Also, glx is for 3d apps, and those won't run well over the network in any case
11:52
<dobber>
on my personal client - intel
11:52
alkisg: that's why it's a fat client
11:53
<alkisg>
I didn't see that, you probably mentioned it before I came, sorry
11:53
dobber: what's the output of lspci -nn -k | grep -A 2 VGA ?
11:54
(on the client)
11:55
<dobber>
an intel video *controller*
11:55
i guess it's not a real video card
11:55
82G33/G31
11:55
<Hyperbyte>
dobber, what makes you think that?
11:55
<dobber>
kernel driver in use: i915
11:56
<Hyperbyte>
"Controller" is a generic term for i/o devices... audio controller, video controller, harddisk controller...
11:56
<dobber>
i know
11:56
i mean i guess i have some server integrated card or smth
11:57
Failed to initialize GLX extension (Compatible NVIDIA X driver not found)
11:57
maybe if i remove nvidia drivers...
11:57
<alkisg>
dobber: yeah
11:57
http://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/debian-26/intel-driver-for-82g33-g31-in-squeeze-does-not-support-3d-rendering-860838/
11:57
Same problem there ^
11:58
The nvidia drivers shouldn't be installed unless you only have nvidia clients
11:58
<dobber>
i have a mix
11:59
<alkisg>
You need 2 chroots then if you don't like nouveau
12:00
<dobber>
i don't know what nouveau is
12:00
aha i see
12:00
if i have to support two chroots, than it's no 3d for all
12:01
<muppis>
It's not so big deal. I personally had 3 chroots.
12:02
htpc, 64bit and 32bit.
12:02
<alkisg>
dobber: if you remove the nvidia drivers, then intel clients will have 3d
12:02
<srdjo>
how do you create the second chroot
12:03
and how do you bild image for it
12:03
<alkisg>
You might be able to find a way to completely "unload" the nvidia modules on boot, but it will require some research. If you do, that will be helpful for many.
12:03
<srdjo>
i gues you point clients to images by dhcp, am I right ?
12:04
<alkisg>
Yes, or you can even have a script do it automatically
12:04
E.g. check if the client has an nvidia card, then choose that image, otherwise the other one
12:05
<dobber>
i have 2 different chroots now
12:05
<srdjo>
where can I find more info about this ? I am using Ubuntu 11.10
12:05
<dobber>
and some guys want even newer version with kde :(
12:05
so i might create a new chroot soon :(
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12:07
<Gremble>
hi alkisg
12:07
<alkisg>
Hello
12:07
<Gremble>
LDM_USER_ALLOW works really well
12:07
you asked me to report back on that
12:08
<alkisg>
Gremble: nice, I wonder what would be best, to rename it in the code or in the docs :)
12:08
<Gremble>
docs
12:09
<alkisg>
Gremble: if you could open a bug report it would help too
12:09
!ltsp-bug
12:09
<ltsp>
alkisg: ltsp-bug: To file a bug report for upstream LTSP, go to https://bugs.launchpad.net/ltsp
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12:17
<dobber>
i have 3d
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12:30
<Briareos1>
hey
12:30
if i leave the MODEs unset - how is the resolution of the clients determined?
12:31
the manpage states something about lowering the resolution: For example, if your thin client comes up in a higher resolution than what you want, say, 1280x1024, specifying:
12:31
... giving the impression that it's unnecessary to set that for getting higher ones running
12:32
working
12:34
it's a widescreen btw
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12:45
<Gremble>
alkisg: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ltsp/+bug/940276
12:47
<Hyperbyte>
Briareos1, the resolution of the clients is determined the same way the default resolution is determined for any screen attached to a video card
12:48
How it works specifically, I don't know - there's probably some protocol for it, but videocards know which display modes a screen supports, and then the highest one is picked.
12:48
<Briareos1>
Hyperbyte: strange - so you're saying if I connect the monitor to a standalone machine the same problem will arise?
12:49
<Hyperbyte>
Briareos1, you just joined this channel asking how a client determines a resolution.
12:49
You didn't say anything about a problem.
12:50
<Briareos1>
Hyperbyte: true :) ... the problem is: we connected a new widescreen monitor but the configuration screen/window only offers 3 non-widescreen resolutions
12:51
i've checked the lts.conf files - no restrictions are in place
12:52
it's still on hardy btw
12:52
<srdjo>
I had the same problem
12:52
if you have multiple clients
12:52
try your monitor on some other client
12:52
and if it works ok
12:53
the simpliest thing to do is
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12:53
<srdjo>
either swap graphic card
12:53
or the whole case
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12:54
<Briareos1>
srdjo: i doubt the graphics card is unable to support the resolution --- or do you mean a driver problem rather?
12:56
<Hyperbyte>
Briareos1, start the client with the widescreen
12:56
Open a terminal, type 'xrandr'
12:56
And paste the output to pastebin, and show us.
12:57
srdjo, it's always best to first gather information about what's going wrong exactly, before you start fixing. ;-)
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12:58
<Briareos1>
i'm off site atm, but i'll instruct my colleague and get back with the info
12:58
<Hyperbyte>
Briareos1, alright. My guess is that the videocard also has a TV output.
12:58Parker955 is now known as Parker955_Away
12:59
<Briareos1>
Hyperbyte: likely - what would that imply?
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12:59
<Hyperbyte>
Since a TV output does not detect resolution, it only detects some default non-widescreen resolutions.
12:59
So Linux thinks there's two screens attached, and sets them in clone mode.
13:00
In clone mode, the resolution is as good as the weakest link... so the widescreen gets confined to the TV output allowed resolutions.
13:00
Easy fix is to disable the TV output using some lts.conf parameter. The 'xrandr' output will confirm if this is going on, and will also reveal how to disable to the TV output via lts.conf.
13:00
<Briareos1>
Hyperbyte: how'd that be resolved?
13:01
okay
13:02
<Hyperbyte>
I've had the same thing here. :-) My thin clients have a LVDS output onboard, which completely ruins dualhead view, if it isn't disabled.
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14:00
<srdjo>
i added an admin acount to my fat client chroot
14:00
and rebuilded the image
14:00
but it still asks for password when I try to add printer
14:00
Authentication (fetching device list)
14:01
it asks for username
14:01
and password
14:02
adn wont accept my chroot password
14:02
what username might it ask for ?
14:11
<||cw>
define "admin account"
14:12
<srdjo>
i used this page
14:12
<||cw>
is this account in the lpadmin group?
14:12
<srdjo>
https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/CreateChrootAdminAcct
14:12
and created an chroot admin acount
14:12
that is in the sudoers list
14:12
it is in group sudo
14:13
<||cw>
%sudo ALL=(ALL) ALL is suspicious to me
14:13
oh wait, read wrong
14:13
<srdjo>
it is actualy sudo ALL=(ALL:ALL) ALL in the real file
14:13
<||cw>
no, it should be %sudo
14:14
because you are allowing members of the sudo group
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14:14
<||cw>
which if you don't have %, that's why it's not working
14:16
<srdjo>
i forgot the %
14:16
but it has ALL word 3 times
14:17
and there is only 2 on the page above
14:17
i mean 4 times
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14:29
<||cw>
should have 3. of cours for your use case, then means you have log in local using this admin user
14:44
<srdjo>
it works with local root account
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15:00
<ogra_>
srdjo, why dont you just copy the file from your server ;)
15:00
<srdjo>
what file ?
15:00
cups config ?
15:00
<ogra_>
sudoers
15:01
<srdjo>
it wont accept accounts from main server
15:01
<ogra_>
??
15:01
you have a working sudoers file on your server, right ?
15:01
<srdjo>
but it does accept local root account that I unlocked
15:01
yes
15:02
and all works on server
15:02
but on client
15:02
<ogra_>
and you have a local user in the chroot thats in the sudoers group
15:02
<srdjo>
yes I do
15:02
<ogra_>
givcen that the server file also enables all users of the sudoers group, just copy over the file and be done
15:02
if there is still something not working, its definitely not the file
15:03
(you should be able to do that with the majority of your configs btw)
15:04
(in case you need something on the client thats already working on the server)
15:04
<srdjo>
i only need to add printer that is connected directly to fat client
15:05
and that every client can see it
15:05
it is so easy to do it whit normal client (thin)
15:05
but there is no info to be found anywhere on this subject (fat client)
15:15
i will try to install it with local root account and will be back with the results
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16:40
<knipwim>
omg, it boots, ltsp client 5.3 on gentoo!
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16:40
<knipwim>
not much of a challenge though, now i put the bind mounts in the init-ltsp.d
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17:10
<dberkholz>
knipwim: awesome
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17:37* vagrantc haves some fine yak wool this morning
17:47
<vagrantc>
!seen alkisg
17:47
<ltsp>
vagrantc: alkisg was last seen in #ltsp 5 hours, 38 minutes, and 3 seconds ago: <alkisg> !ltsp-bug
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18:21
<cliebow>
vagrantc, there is alkisg!!!
18:21* alkisg waves
18:21
<cliebow>
cliebow does too!!
18:22
<vagrantc>
hiya!
18:22
alkisg: so, in implementing this symlink ltspfs udev rules in from init-ltsp.d ...
18:22
<alkisg>
yup?
18:23
<vagrantc>
alkisg: what point is the udev rule installed in ubuntu? on debian, it varies by release.
18:24
although it's been pretty stable at 60, or z60 ...
18:24
<alkisg>
vagrantc: you mean this? /lib/udev/rules.d/80-ltspfsd.rules
18:24
<vagrantc>
alkisg: yes.
18:24
in debian i think it ends up at z60-ltspfsd.rules
18:24* vagrantc is checking
18:25
<vagrantc>
no idea what other distros will have
18:25
<alkisg>
Fortunately we can easily override it with our init-ltsp.d/Distro/ dirs :)
18:25
<vagrantc>
for a while, it was all /etc/udev/rules.d ...
18:25
alkisg: right!
18:26
or it would be a simple patch
18:26
<alkisg>
Let me see what else I have in my notes...
18:26
<vagrantc>
alkisg: although, i guess more to the point, at least on debian, i let dh_installudev figure out where it goes and at the default priority ...
18:27
i don't know how to do that dynamically at runtime
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18:27
<vagrantc>
on ubuntu, at one point, you needed to diverge by hard-coding 80 as the udev priority
18:27
and so i've got that patch in there at build time.
18:27
<alkisg>
Are we sure that the debian default priority doesn't work in Ubuntu?
18:28
<vagrantc>
alkisg: i'm sure at one point that was true, no idea if that's the case anymore.
18:28
<alkisg>
"Sets the priority string of the rules.d symlink. Default is 40."
18:29
I don't see any dynamic magic there, if it's hardcoded to 40
18:29
<vagrantc>
on debian, default is 60.
18:29
alkisg: it's in debian/rules to set it to 80 if building on Ubuntu
18:29
as that was the only divergence at one point
18:30
no idea if that's still needed
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18:32
<alkisg>
Btw we could easily add code in ltspfs to not do anything if LOCALDEVs aren't enabled
18:32
Even if we leave the udev rule there, always enabled...
18:32
But I think it's more clean as we're trying to do it now, from init-ltsp.d
18:33
<vagrantc>
there should already be code that doesn't do anything if LOCALDEV is not enabled.
18:34
also, we have this same problem with the sound from udev code
18:34
hrm.
18:35
even after reboot, lxde's menus remember having been run as a fatclient with a different array of apps :(
18:35
where is that stored?
18:36
<alkisg>
Ah, they use cache in $HOME? Maybe ~/.cache/lxde ?
18:37
<xsl>
or ~/.local/share/lxde ?
18:37
i allways have the feeling that .cache is temporary thing
18:38
<alkisg>
Shouldn't menu cache be temporary too?
18:38
<vagrantc>
or ~/.cache/menus ?
18:38
one would hope.
18:39
at any rate, don't want to get too distracted
18:42
<alkisg>
On another topic, stgraber proposed that we do the start-stop-daemon and policy-rc.d handling in ltsp-chroot instead of ltsp-build-client
18:42
<vagrantc>
alkisg: i can see that being a little cleaner, but then plain chroot won't work properly anymore...
18:43
<alkisg>
Yes, but it will work with plain chrootS
18:43
;)
18:43
<vagrantc>
?
18:43
<alkisg>
I.e. get any chroot. Install ltsp-client. Use ltsp-chroot. Works
18:43
<vagrantc>
hm.
18:43
<alkisg>
Not a chroot specifically prepared by ltsp-build-client
18:43
<vagrantc>
interesting...
18:43
<alkisg>
I think I'd prefer it on ltsp-client.postinst
18:43
Even if it's against policy or whatever
18:44
<vagrantc>
policy violations are not optional for me :P
18:44
<alkisg>
Haha
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18:44
<alkisg>
Doesn't debian policy specifically mention policy-rc.d for chroots though?
18:44
<vagrantc>
it sure does.
18:45
and i've tried as best i can to comply with that.
18:45
<alkisg>
What I don't like about ltsp-chroot, is that it modifies the chroot on entry and on exit
18:45
If the power is lost inbetween, you have a modified chroot
18:45
I mean, is it against policy to install a policy-rc.d wrapper from a package.postinst?
18:46
Or to do a dpkg-divert, if you have to?
18:46
<stgraber>
which will be solved next time you use ltsp-chroot
18:46
we can also add that same cleanup code in ltsp-update-image just to be safe
18:46
<alkisg>
Indeed
18:46
Btw, guys, I plan to work soon on making ltsp-update-image (or something similar) work with loop-based images, or vbox images , etc
18:46
<vagrantc>
huh... can't find the policy references...
18:46
<knipwim>
are configure_console and configure_serial_mouse not in init-ltsp.d for a reason?
18:47
<alkisg>
Should I do them on some other branch?
18:47
<knipwim>
not that i'm missing them
18:47
<alkisg>
Should I do them on a /work-in-progress dir in the upstream branch?
18:47
<vagrantc>
alkisg: why not use a branch, rather than in -trunk ?
18:48
would be cleaner once you merge it.
18:48
<alkisg>
Whatever's best for you. E.g. you may want to give design feedback.
18:48
I think I want to split the chroot "mounting" phase from the "exporting" phase
18:48
Mounting == loopback, nfs, vbox, whatever
18:48
Exporting == squashfs, nfs, clicfs, dunno
18:49
<vagrantc>
doesn't seem like a clean split- some things are interdependent
18:49
<alkisg>
knipwim: I don't think there's a reason, feel free to move them
18:49
<vagrantc>
i don't know what you mean by the phases grouping them like that
18:49
<alkisg>
I mean that one may want to access the chroot from an nfs share, and then publish it to a squashfs image
18:50
<vagrantc>
switching between the different types?
18:50
<alkisg>
Or to access it from a vbox .vdi file, and publish it to a directory exported with nfs
18:51
From an nfs share on some client, I meant, e.g. a powerpc one
18:51
The first phase is to somehow mount locally the chroot
18:51
It's not always a local dir
18:51
The second phase is to export it
18:51
That's not always squashfs
18:52
OK, specific use case
18:52
I install my os in a powerpc client, and export its whole disk with nfs
18:52
<vagrantc>
alkisg: ah, i remember now, we create policy-rc.d in ltsp-build-client so it's available before ltsp-client-core is instaled.
18:53
<alkisg>
Then I want "ltsp-export-disk" to mount that nfs share, and copy it locally, and then export it via nfs too
18:53
It's not always "local dir" to "squashfs"...
18:53
<vagrantc>
right
18:53
anything to anything :)
18:54
<alkisg>
So, a mounting phase and an exporting phase
18:55
<vagrantc>
for now, i want to focus on and ltspfs and ldm changes to upload for today.
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19:00
<alkisg>
Meh, that fancy 3.x kernel doesn't like my laptop :-/
19:02
<vagrantc>
so, i'm trying the ltspfs change...
19:02
<alkisg>
So, about policy-rc.d: we can do it from ltsp-build-client and from ltsp-client.postinst too... Does it make any difference if we put it in ltsp-client.preinst?
19:03
<vagrantc>
alkisg: can't do it from preinst, as the package contents won't be unpacked.
19:03
you want to do it from both?
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19:04
<alkisg>
I want some way that will allow me to install ltsp-client to a regular machine, then transfer the result to the ltsp server, and then be able to maintain it normally
19:04
I think ltsp-client.postinst covers that
19:04
<vagrantc>
alkisg: so the init-ltsp.d hook of copying it to /etc/udev/rules.d didn't work.
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19:05
<vagrantc>
alkisg: ah, and so it'll be ok if daemons end up running on the local machine?
19:05
<alkisg>
Well, LTSP_HANDLE_DAEMONS won't be defined
19:05
Yes, no problem with daemons in regular machines
19:06
<vagrantc>
perhaps because my copying was bunk...
19:06
<alkisg>
Afaik udevd is (re)started long after init
19:07
So I don't see why it wouldn't work
19:08
Another thing I'd like to divert from ltsp-client is update-grub :(
19:08
Sure, grub should get fixed so that it doesn't die horribly on chroots, but in the meantime... :(
19:09
Or, put a /etc/grub.d/00-avoid-grub-update with exit 1, if LTSP_HANDLE_DAEMONS is false
19:09* vagrantc was trying to copy the wrong file
19:09
<vagrantc>
alkisg: here's to grub.d! :)
19:09
<alkisg>
Yes those conf.d directories are a life saver! :D
19:10
<vagrantc>
so copying to /etc/udev/rules.d works
19:10
<alkisg>
Another thing that ltsp-build-client does that we may want to move elsewhere, is the ldm theme
19:10
<vagrantc>
dunno if it'd be better to copy to /lib/udev/rules.d
19:10
alkisg: that's an ubuntu thing
19:11
alkisg: i just let the themes in debian sort themselves out with alternatives.
19:11
<alkisg>
Ah ok, yes, that's what I thought too, last theme installed gets to be the active alternative...
19:11
I'll check with stgraber on that then
19:11
<vagrantc>
alkisg: not last theme to get installed, theme with highest priority.
19:12
and if they share the same priority, not sure what happens.
19:12
<alkisg>
Hm. So what would have the highest priority, ubuntu, xubuntu, lubuntu-ldm-theme etc?
19:12
Ah but it would work if the upstream theme had lower priority
19:12
So no problem, ok
19:13
<vagrantc>
which i'm pretty sure it does.
19:13
<alkisg>
Another thing... we divert /etc/mtab in ltsp-build-client only to rewrite it from init-ltsp.d
19:13
<vagrantc>
alkisg: the only issue is if you have multiple ubuntu themes.
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19:13
<alkisg>
OK that's too rare to care about now :)
19:13
<vagrantc>
alkisg: probably old habit with /etc/mtab
19:13
<stgraber>
we really don't need a divert for a file that's not shipped by a package and is meant to contain random content
19:13
<alkisg>
I don't know the story there, if someone does, it'd be nice if he removed one of those 2
19:14
<vagrantc>
we used to divert it in order to provide a symlink to /proc/mounts
19:14
<alkisg>
Do upgrades within the chroot break without that?
19:14
<vagrantc>
that should long since have been resolved.
19:15
<alkisg>
OK, then 010-etc-mtab should go
19:15
(away)
19:15
<vagrantc>
2-3 debian releases ago, but since i'm going with writeable /, it shouldn't be needed at all
19:15
<alkisg>
Maybe 010-var-lib-nfs too then :)
19:16* vagrantc wishes cdpinger didn't exist
19:16
<vagrantc>
alkisg: yeah, it would be good to do an audit of all that stuff.
19:17
hrm. /var/run/ltspfsd.pid is empty :(
19:18
<alkisg>
Some other files that change the chroot that we may or may not want to remove or move to init-ltsp.d, are: 035-default-modules, 030-loopback, 030-kiosk, 010-chroot-tagging, 010-serial-console, 010-etc-hostname, 010-etc-hosts
19:18
<muppis>
Would someone make a metapackage which conflict with xserver-xorg-video-nouveau and depends from nvidia-current ?
19:18
<vagrantc>
so, i should stash the ltspfs rules in /usr/share/ltsp/udev/ltspfsd.rules ? or /usr/share/ltspfs/udev/ltspfsd.rules ?
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19:19
<alkisg>
I'd put it to /usr/share/ltspfs/udev.rules, and symlink it
19:19
<vagrantc>
wow. the serial console support ... i added that to do testing with qemu ... although with -curses, probably don't need it as much anymore.
19:19
<alkisg>
(symlink with another name)
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19:20
<vagrantc>
alkisg: i was thinking we might want to do the same thing with other ltsp udev rules, like the sound support, and thus provide a common space for them.
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19:21
<vagrantc>
dunno if i should put that in init-ltsp.d/common, or in init-ltsp.d/Debian, due to the inconsistant numbering issues.
19:22
might be worth having a function, so at least the only divergence would be the numbering.
19:22
<alkisg>
I'd say put it in common, symlink to Debian, and override it in Ubuntu
19:22
It's just an ln line, isn't it?
19:22
<vagrantc>
yup
19:22
<alkisg>
I don't think it's worth it to make it more complicated...
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19:22
<vagrantc>
or if we wanted to get proper, if [ -f ] ; then ...
19:23
<alkisg>
ln -sf ...
19:24
<vagrantc>
well, also check if /etc/udev/rules.d exists, maybe fallback to /lib/udev/rules.d if it exists, etc.
19:25
or create it
19:25
<alkisg>
Yeah if you're going to do all that it makes sense to define filenames and have the code in common in another place
19:25
49-set-udev-filenames; 50-link-udev-rules
19:26
<vagrantc>
hm.
19:26
<alkisg>
better name, 40-udev-priorities
19:26
<vagrantc>
gets complicated fast :)
19:27
i wonder how dh_installudev figures out the default priority
19:28
<alkisg>
if (! defined $dh{PRIORITY}) {
19:28
$dh{PRIORITY}="40";
19:28
$old_priority="z60";
19:28
}
19:28
Really hardcoded :)
19:28
<vagrantc>
with debian s,40,60,g
19:29
and ltspfsd currently hard-codes 80 for ubuntu
19:30
alkisg: reading http://bugs.debian.org/454478 i'm not sure i want to undo the split again...
19:30
although i guess the recommends on ldm makes *some* sense.
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19:32
<vagrantc>
dropping the dh_installudev calls will make debian/rules a two-liner again.
19:32
<alkisg>
Why do we need to recommend ldm from ltspfs anyway?
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19:32
<alkisg>
Won't ltsp-client take care of all the dependencies?
19:35* alkisg needs to go, bb in a couple of hours...
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20:07
<mgariepy>
cd ..
20:07
ls
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20:11
<cliebow>
VBoxManage
20:18* vagrantc really wants to add hooks for ssh-hostchecker to make it more flexible.
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21:03
<vagrantc>
hrm. not sure the dmrc processing works correctly... but it's so confusing what would be right.
21:03
let's see if gdm3 agrees.
21:06
<stgraber>
hehe, I don't think I've ever found two display managers agreeing on the format ...
21:06
we should ideally test gdm, kdm and lightdm, maybe lxcdm too
21:06
find exactly what they do and try to find something that works more or less with them all
21:07
<vagrantc>
so neither older ldm or newer ldm work with gdm3
21:08
is there a freedesktop.org specification that defines how ~/.dmrc should be handled? implement that, and then file bugs on those that don't?
21:09
<stgraber>
would make sense for one to exist and I think I saw one once, now I'm not sure if everyone respect it though ;)
21:11
<vagrantc>
seems easier to file bugs to get projects to do the right thing than trry to remain compatible with arbitrary specifications that change at a whim.
21:13
and of course, there are bugs in the new implementation that alkisg did...
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21:16
<stgraber>
vagrantc: can't find the spec ... they all say it's ini and that needs at least two keys Session and Language in a [Desktop] section
21:16
the former being the name of session without the .desktop
21:16
the later being a locale in the usual en_US.UTF-8 kind of format
21:16
the .desktop most likely needs to match one in /usr/share/xsessions/
21:18* vagrantc wonders what's up with gdm3
21:20
<vagrantc>
doesn't even seem to use .dmrc
21:23
yup, it seems to ignore anything in .dmrc, and is saving it's values elsewhere.
21:24
at least, on Debian sid ...
21:28
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=617465
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21:29
<vagrantc>
so apparently is stores it in /var/lib/AccountService/users/USERNAME
21:29
which is owned by root.
21:30
which is somehow managed by accountsservice
21:32
which is some dbus mess
21:32
so forget a consistant interface for that
21:33
<stgraber>
fun ;)
21:47
<vagrantc>
so i give up on ldm for the day.
21:47
bback to ltspfs...
21:54
so, i've got the udev rules running without any number prefix at all, and that seems to work fine.
21:54
i wonder if that's a sane upstream default, then?
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21:59
<vagrantc>
alkisg: aha!
21:59
<alkisg>
Heya
21:59
<vagrantc>
alkisg: so, it seems to work fine on debian to use ltspfsd.rules without a number prefix ... wonder if this would be a reasonable upstream default?
22:00
<alkisg>
Hey it's not my fault .dmrc is nuts :P
22:00
<vagrantc>
heh.
22:00
<alkisg>
Sure, put the debian default there (40?) and let's test it in ubuntu
22:01
<vagrantc>
alkisg: the older version of dmrc processing seemed more reliable to me.
22:01
alkisg: no number at all, just called ltspfsd.rules
22:02
<alkisg>
vagrantc: the older version didn't work at all for me
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22:02
<vagrantc>
alkisg: didn't work on ltsp?
22:02
<alkisg>
The new one does, in ubuntu precise at least
22:02
Yes
22:02
<vagrantc>
er, with ldm
22:02
<alkisg>
Yes
22:03
<vagrantc>
alkisg: well, the older one works fine in debian sid, and has some serious bugs on debian sid.
22:03
<alkisg>
What's wrong with the newer version?
22:03
<vagrantc>
er, the newer one.
22:03
<alkisg>
Can you pastebin the contents of a .dmrc file, and of /usr/share/xsessions/* ?
22:04
The older version didn't bother to convert between an xsession name , and the Exec line...
22:04
...and that's vital for Ubuntu at least
22:04
<vagrantc>
alkisg: i didn't document the bugs well, figuring i'd go over it and see what the other display managers were expecting to use (and then i stumbled upon that insanity)
22:05
<alkisg>
So, I think that .dmrc should contain the name of the xsession file, and not the Exec line
22:05
Is that not true Debian?
22:05
<vagrantc>
alkisg: i think the bug had to do with handling when LDM_SESSION was set
22:05
<alkisg>
Or somehow the code doesn't do it right?
22:05
*not true IN Debian...
22:06
OK let me boot my Debian/LXDE vm...
22:06
<vagrantc>
i'll have to test again, i got sidetracked by the gdm3 doesn't play well with others thread
22:08
<alkisg>
Hmmm no I don't see why it wouldn't work, I'd need more feedback to fix it
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22:09
<vagrantc>
or maybe it's my understanding how it should work
22:09
<alkisg>
I implemented it according to how you explained it to my
22:09
me
22:09
So if there's a misunderstanding, I'm sure it's in my part
22:09
So...
22:10
LDM_SESSION is a command line, which usually matches the Exec line of a file in /usr/share/xsessions
22:10
But, .dmrc is not the same as LDM_SESSION
22:10
Instead, it contains the name of the /usr/share/xsessions/*.desktop file, not the Exec line
22:11
So when LDM_SESSION is defined, I try to find which file contains that Exec line
22:11
<vagrantc>
haven't been able to reproduce the problem yet
22:11
what crazy things did i do?
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22:17
<vagrantc>
oh, i'm testing with the old version.
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22:21
<alkisg>
Btw, in that new ltsp-export-image (or -disk) that I want to start implementing... why are those ARCH, BASE etc significant? Why can't we just provide a source path and a target path?
22:21
And, any good name for loop-based images?
22:21
Like, /etc/ltsp/loop/* ?
22:22
<vagrantc>
alkisg: so that you don't have to provide the paths, it can inherrit them from environment variables used by the rest of ltsp-build-client
22:23
<alkisg>
Well, if you provide one path (either arch or base), why not provide all of it?
22:23
Why split it in two?
22:24
ltsp-update-image --source=/opt/ltsp/loop/fat.vdi --target=/opt/ltsp/images/fat.img (target shouldn't be needed)
22:25
Or even ltsp-update-image --source=/home/teacher/VirtualBox/fat/fat.vdi
22:28
<vagrantc>
alkisg: ok, found at least one oddity.
22:28
<alkisg>
Which one?
22:28
<vagrantc>
alkisg: i specified LDM_SESSION=/usr/bin/openbox and it set Session=openbox-kde
22:29
<alkisg>
Ah, so grep doesn't match the full line?
22:29
Let me see...
22:29
<vagrantc>
right, the fulle line was Exec=/usr/bin/openbox-kde-ssession
22:29
<alkisg>
dmrc_session=$(do_ssh "grep -lR '^Exec=$LDM_SESSION$' /usr/share/xsessions/ | sed -n '/\/usr\/share\/xsessions\/\(.*\)\.desktop/{s//\1/p;q}'")
22:30
Missing the dollar
22:30
After LDM_SESSION$
22:31
<vagrantc>
will try
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22:32
<vagrantc>
another question, should LDM_SESSION override the user-configured setting, or force the session?
22:34
<alkisg>
If the user selects e.g. "gnome classic" from ldm, then I suppose this should become his new default session
22:34
So it should override his configured setting in .dmrc
22:34
But of course if the session command came out of nowhere and it doesn't match any known /usr/share/xsession/* file, then it shouldn't be stored
22:35
<vagrantc>
which, yours doesn't :)
22:35
<alkisg>
Why?>
22:35
<vagrantc>
so with the extra $ it works fine.
22:35
alkisg: i set LDM_SESSION=/usr/bin/openbox which doesn't match any sessions.
22:36
and it correctly started /usr/bin/openbox, without saving anything to .dmrc
22:36
<alkisg>
OK yeah the extra $ was a bug, but is there another one?
22:37
<vagrantc>
not that i can find.
22:37* vagrantc is really liking the new bg.png
22:37
<alkisg>
OK, good enough, 1 character wrong in 2012 characters total :P
22:37* vagrantc thanks highvoltage
22:37
<alkisg>
That's less than 1 per thousand :D
22:39
<vagrantc>
:)
22:39
<highvoltage>
:D
22:41
<alkisg>
Ah my fairy godmother is calling, bye all :)
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23:36
<vagrantc>
ugh.
23:37
the init-ltsp.d stuff having to handle all the symlinks is a bear when those symlinks may be in multiple packages.
23:37
need to figure out how to merge at build time.
23:50
apparently /run/udev/rules.d takes precedence...