IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 12 December 2009   (all times are UTC)

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00:40
<vagrantc>
alkisg: you up yet?
00:40
<alkisg>
Hi vagrantc, *I* should be asking that question :)
00:40
It's 8:40 am here :)
00:40
<vagrantc>
just wondering why screen-session.d/XS00-halt-reboot was put into ltsp-trunk rather than ldm-trunk ...
00:41
seems like a feature of ldm that itsn't useful without ldm, no?
00:41
<alkisg>
The reason is in the recent messages sent in the ltsp-developer mailing list,
00:41
In short, the correct way to put it was in ldm *script*, and Gadi said that we shouldn't modify it at this point,
00:42
Because in other ldm* places it didn't work correctly (either left ghost processes, or it caused flickering)
00:42
<vagrantc>
yes, but you can put it in screen-session.d/XS00-halt-reboot in the ldm-trunk package
00:42
<alkisg>
No, because that causes flickering (X starts before the shutdown)
00:42
<vagrantc>
ldm-trunk can (and should) ship hooks to ltsp that are only relevent to ldm.
00:42
it's just a matter of which source ships the files.
00:42
you can put it in the same exact place.
00:42
<alkisg>
Then we'd need a hook for "after X stops". We currently don't have one, do we?
00:43
Ah
00:43
Now I got it
00:43
<vagrantc>
i think we'd have to add the screen-session.d stuff to ldm, but that's where it belongs.
00:43
just like ldm ships the screen script for ldm support on ltsp.
00:44
<alkisg>
Well that's fine from me, and sorry that I didn't think about it
00:44
<vagrantc>
it's one of those pedantic things that i try to keep a watch on :)
00:45
<alkisg>
I *did* ping a lot of people to watch over my first commit, though :D
00:45
<vagrantc>
alkisg: no big deal :)
00:45
moved it to /var/run, at least :)
00:46
<alkisg>
I just thought that the debian policy said that one package shouldn't write files in another package's directories....
00:46
...so I just went with the flow and put it where all other screen-session.d/* scripts were :)
00:46
<vagrantc>
*.d directories are hooks explicitly designed for other packages to drop files into
00:47
<alkisg>
vagrantc: in any case, it isn't strictly an ldm thing
00:47
<vagrantc>
they're not supposed to modify other packages files, particularly files in /etc, but *.d directories are made to allow one package to extend the functional.ity of another
00:47
alkisg: then why is the file called /var/run/ldm-logout-action ?
00:48
<alkisg>
Because it was already named as such :D
00:48
(from the previous stgraber attempt)
00:48
I thought of renaming it, but then I decided not to divert too much
00:48
<vagrantc>
fair enough
00:48
what other things would actually make use of it?
00:49
<alkisg>
So e.g. one could use it from a kiosk session... or even from rdesktop
00:49
<vagrantc>
ok, well... then the file should stay in ltsp-trunk
00:49
<alkisg>
Heh ;)
00:50
<vagrantc>
though the name leads to confusion, then
00:50
<alkisg>
You're right on that, but I ldm *is* the main way to use that trick
00:50
Sure, if I was writing this from scratch, I'd name it ltsp-logout-action or something...
00:51
Or even just ltsp-halt-reboot, because there won't always be a logout involved
00:52
<vagrantc>
seems like one uses /tmp/ldm-logout-action and one uses /var/run/ldm-logout-action
00:52
<alkisg>
Right, that was because stgraber couldn't write to /var/run (it ran as user, not as root)
00:53
<vagrantc>
right ...
00:53
so it's two different mechanisms for the same thing?
00:53
<cyberorg>
alkisg, we need this patch to make our build system happy, http://pastebin.com/dc1faff1 GenericName and Categories
00:54
renamed it to LTSP Client Reboot as it is confusing if user hits that icon and nothing happens on normal session
00:54
<alkisg>
vagrantc: yes, and *maybe* stgraber will sometime deprecate his, I don't know...
00:54* vagrantc is trying to get it figured out before uploading to debian
00:55
<alkisg>
vagrantc: I'm OK with whatever changes you think appropriate :)
00:56
<vagrantc>
i'll poke stgraber to see if it'll be deprecated
00:56
and then i'll just make sure it doesn't hit a debian stable release
00:58
cyberorg: seems like changing the icon may not be compatible with other distros
00:58
<cyberorg>
alkisg, is it possible to install .desktop files via makeinstall instead of putting it in doc?
00:58
<vagrantc>
though it's just an example anyways
00:59
<cyberorg>
vagrantc, yes that is why i used something generic enough "gdm"
00:59
<alkisg>
cyberorg: yes, but at least Ubuntu afaik doesn't want to install any ltsp .desktop files...
00:59
They're just there as examples
01:00
<cyberorg>
ok np, i do it from rpm spec so will carry on with that :)
01:00
<alkisg>
And if this gets accepted, they won't be at all useful anymore: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-session/+bug/491940
01:01
vagrantc: if you think we should change the xprop name, I'll need to propose a different patch for gnome-session, so please tell me soon enough for Lucid :)
01:01
<vagrantc>
alkisg: gah.
01:02
alkisg: i think the name *should* be made generic, yes.
01:02
weather it's worth it, i don't know.
01:02* alkisg wonders why there's only feedback *after* the commit, and not before :D
01:02
<vagrantc>
alkisg: sorry ... was caught up with other things and saw a flurry of activity...
01:03
alkisg: i tried commenting on irc as much as i could...
01:03
<alkisg>
Nah, sorry for my inexperience
01:06
cyberorg: I don't remember why, but in iTalc I preferred to use dbus to tell gnome to logout instead of calling gnome-session-save: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/36400397/local_system_ica.diff
01:08
<cyberorg>
alkisg, you get feedback after commit because every tests it after that :)
01:08
<alkisg>
Heh, well at least for Ubuntu I had packages in my PPA before commiting the patch
01:08* vagrantc hasn't even tested it yet
01:09
<vagrantc>
just spent time building packages
01:09
<cyberorg>
alkisg, building packages locally works, our build service complains if it does not like something, the icon, GenericName and Category was missing, without that packages don't build
01:10
<alkisg>
vagrantc: the way stgraber did it, left me with ghost processes, that's one of the main reason I tried to do it in a different way (the other one being that xprop would work even if localapps are disabled)
01:10
<vagrantc>
alkisg: yeah, seems better.
01:10
<alkisg>
cyberorg: I've never even seen those .desktop files, they're in the ltsp source tree?
01:10* alkisg looks...
01:11
<cyberorg>
in localapps/doc/examples
01:12
<alkisg>
cyberorg: ah, you are *not* using my patch :)
01:12
<cyberorg>
alkisg, i suspect gnome-session-save is just a wrapper that does dbus call or the other way around
01:12
<alkisg>
That's stgraber's patch
01:12
It was there for some time...
01:12
<cyberorg>
ah, so we have two ways of doing that?
01:13
<alkisg>
Yup
01:13
Don't you have ghost processes on the server when you use stgraber's way of doing it?
01:13
<cyberorg>
now that you mention it i'll pay attention :)
01:14
<alkisg>
But also that way localapps need to be enabled...
01:14
(for it to work)
01:15
<cyberorg>
hmm, so what is your way to do it?
01:16
for this there was no patching required, just new ltsp packages were enough
01:17
<alkisg>
Yes, because the patch was there for some time now
01:17
<cyberorg>
there should be DE independent way of doing this, getting gnome-session patched will just get gnome working, not all the other DEs
01:18
<alkisg>
my way: xprop -root -f LDM_LOGOUT_ACTION 8s -set LDM_LOGOUT_ACTION REBOOT (and call gnome logout)
01:18
It's basically the same way, but it's handled by a different code in the scripts
01:19
So the "echo" part is done from the client side, not from the .desktop file
01:20
<cyberorg>
then you need to create at least one more patch for KDE too :)
01:21
<alkisg>
For the .desktop file?
01:22
It'd be nice if we could send those patches upstream to kde-session and gnome-session...
01:22
This way it'd work even if someone tried to reboot via dbus
01:22
<cyberorg>
no, .desktop way does not require any DE patching
01:23
<alkisg>
E.g. now with the patched gnome-session, I can properly reboot the client not only from the gnome menus, but also from iTalc etc
01:24
<cyberorg>
need patch for gnome-session, the one that is not a patch to a patch :)
01:25
we can discuss with vuntz to get it in gnome 2.28.2 if possible
01:27
<alkisg>
Ugh, I wouldn't know how to test with vanilla gnome-session... Does debian have a vanilla gnome-session?
01:30* alkisg reboots because of a weird X problems he's been experiencing once per week the last months... :(
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01:46* vagrantc hopes other distros start using ltsp-info ...
01:49
<Ryan52>
what's ltsp-info?
01:50
<cyberorg>
alkisg, you are right there are a lot of processes around after shutdown
01:51
<alkisg>
cyberorg: yup, and because my patch is using the same xprop name as stgraber's patch, the only way to properly reboot is to *remove* stgraber's patch :-/
01:52
Maybe that would give us another reason to do as vagrantc said and rename the xprop to something that doesn't have "ldm" in it :D
01:53
vagrantc: isn't that upstream now? why wouldn't the other distros include it?
01:56
Also btw, the fact that ghost processes remain after the user logs off and are only terminated when X shuts down properly, I think means that we are doing something wrong in the session-closing code...
02:00
<cyberorg>
alkisg, what changes are required in client chroot for xprop -root -f LDM_LOGOUT_ACTION 8s -set LDM_LOGOUT_ACTION HALT to work?
02:01
<alkisg>
cyberorg: the one and only commit I've made :D
02:01* alkisg looks for the link..
02:01
<cyberorg>
alkisg, that is already in our package, but nothing seem to happen when running that
02:03
<alkisg>
http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ltsp-upstream/ltsp/ltsp-trunk/revision/1465
02:03
Do you have the client/screen-session.d/XS00-halt-reboot file?
02:04
Hmmm where's the X99 file diff?
02:04
<vagrantc>
alkisg: it's upstream, but gotta remind the distros to include it
02:06
<alkisg>
Ah, it's on the ldm-trunk, right...
02:06
<cyberorg>
alkisg, yes it is there in the client chroot
02:06
<alkisg>
cyberorg: and you also have the ldm patch? http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ltsp-upstream/ltsp/ldm-trunk/revision/1223
02:07
<cyberorg>
ldm still needs patch? i thought that was committed
02:07
<alkisg>
Yes, it is
02:07
I mean the commited ldm patch :D
02:09
If those 2 files LDM/rc.d/X99-zzz-logout-action and LTSP/client/screen-session.d/XS00-halt-reboot contain the new code, then runing `xprop -root -f LDM_LOGOUT_ACTION 8s -set LDM_LOGOUT_ACTION HALT` and then logging off should poweroff the client
02:09
<cyberorg>
i see your changes in X99-zzz-logout-action too
02:09
<alkisg>
(without leaving ghost processes)
02:10
<cyberorg>
oh you mean log out is still required?
02:10
<alkisg>
Yup, the xprop only "marks" that a halt is needed after logoff
02:10
<cyberorg>
ok that seems to have worked, log out halted the client
02:11
and no ugly leftover processes
02:11
<alkisg>
So in the desktop files something like this would be needed: sh -c 'prop -root -f LDM_LOGOUT_ACTION 8s -set LDM_LOGOUT_ACTION HALT; logoff'
02:13
Exec=sh -c '-root -f LDM_LOGOUT_ACTION 8s -set LDM_LOGOUT_ACTION HALT; gnome-session-save --logout'
02:13
damn forgot the xprop
02:13
Exec=sh -c 'xprop -root -f LDM_LOGOUT_ACTION 8s -set LDM_LOGOUT_ACTION HALT; gnome-session-save --logout'
02:14
<cyberorg>
Exec=sh -c 'xprop -root -f LDM_LOGOUT_ACTION 8s -set LDM_LOGOUT_ACTION HALT; gnome-session-save --logout'
02:14
<alkisg>
Right
02:14
; is better than && here
02:15
<cyberorg>
you copy paste faster :)
02:15
<alkisg>
;) We could also change that to an "ltsp-logoff" script, and just call that
02:15
(that would automatically detect if KDE/gnome etc is used)
02:16* alkisg prefers the gnome-session patch, though :D
02:18
<cyberorg>
there must be something like XDG_LOGOFF
02:23
fixed the package, patched .desktop file to your procedure :)
02:24
http://pastebin.com/d20436e17
02:24
works perfect now
02:25
can you update the .desktop in example to use this?
02:31
<alkisg>
cyberorg: I think stgraber should do that, as he's the one that provided the .desktop file
02:32
Or someone else, it's my first patch, I wouldn't want to get too intrusive :D
02:32
*commit
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02:35
<cyberorg>
alkisg, you will only be improving it by putting proper command :)
02:37
<alkisg>
cyberorg: ok, but I'll need an OK from stgraber first. I'll ping him whenever I find him :)
02:37
<cyberorg>
of course :)
02:38
<alkisg>
Ah, we don't have anything similar for KDE, do we?
02:40
iTalc says that this is for KDE logout: dcop ksmserver ksmserver logout 0 0 0
02:42
<cyberorg>
kde is a mess, kde3 and kde4 may be different
02:42
<alkisg>
Ugh
02:42
I really wish xdg gets gnome & kde more close...
02:43
<cyberorg>
let me test kde4
02:46
<alkisg>
That iTalc line should be from the kde3 era, so if it works on KDE4, then I guess it's good enough to provide as an example in ltsp.
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02:49
<cyberorg>
i get "ERROR: Couldn't attach to DCOP server"
02:57
<alkisg>
cyberorg: Is that from within the session? Or from a terminal outside of X?
02:57
Maybe KDE4 switched to dbus...
02:58
<cyberorg>
alkisg, kde does not use dcop anymore, it is now dbus
02:58
<alkisg>
Right, so I guess we'd need to run d-feet to see the proper dbus call
02:58
(or just google it :))
02:58
Heh, anyway, I never use KDE so I'll just pass on that :)
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03:04
<ogra>
soo ...
03:05
i wonder ...
03:05
if we use xprop for all communication already ...
03:05
instead of attaching dbus to ssh we should probably just have communication to the client dbus going through xprop too ...
03:06
<cyberorg>
xprop -root -f LTSP_GREETING 8s -s GREET_OGRA HAI
03:06
<ogra>
i wonder if the traffic gets to high for that ... dbus can be noisy, but i imagine its way easier to implement
03:07
hey cyberorg
03:07* cyberorg logs out of kde via GUI
03:07
<ogra>
congrats
03:09
your method doesnt really integrate with the desktop logout buttons, does it ?
03:12
<cyberorg>
ogra, that was just giving up finding kde command to log out
03:12
<ogra>
heh
03:12
kde should send a dbus message as gnome-session does
03:13
<cyberorg>
found this "qdbus org.kde.ksmserver /KSMServer logout 0 0 0" that works, but the person who suggested has 0 2 0 instead of 0 0 0
03:13
<ogra>
probably we should just capture that specific message on the server
03:13
right, i guess qdbus just sends a message to the system dbus
03:13
similar to gnome
03:13
<cyberorg>
hmm, that was typo from him, it is 0 0 0
03:14
<ogra>
ltsp should have a listener that sits on top of the system dbus on the server ... and steals the messages ...
03:15* ogra is brainstorming .... i'm on holiday and actually have some time for ltsp work
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03:24
<cyberorg>
alkisg, here is the script to logoff according to kde/gnome http://pastebin.com/m128745d
03:59
<alkisg>
cyberorg: 0 2 0 might mean reboot instead of logout, or might mean "force logout" or something...
03:59
<cyberorg>
alkisg, that was a typo
03:59
<alkisg>
ogra, well, since you're on holidays, what better way to spend them than mergins the d-buses :P :D
03:59* alkisg is just kidding...
04:00
<alkisg>
cyberorg: why don't you commit a .desktop example file for KDE as well? I imagine KDE users would appreciate it...
04:01
<cyberorg>
alkisg, two different .desktop files shouldn't be required, just replacing log out command with a call to script ^^
04:01
<alkisg>
cyberorg: also, GNOME_DESKTOP_SESSION_ID=this-is-deprecated
04:02
I don't think you should rely on an environment variable to see that, I think it'd be better if you checked if sessionmanager is running
04:02
(or even pgrep gnome-session)
04:02
<cyberorg>
alkisg, see detectDE() in /usr/bin/xdg-su
04:03
<alkisg>
I don't have that file, but: echo $GNOME_DESKTOP_SESSION_ID
04:03
this-is-deprecated
04:03
I trust gnome itself more than some example :)
04:04
<cyberorg>
hmm, yes it says "this-is-deprecated"
04:04
so we use whatever new way turns up in xdg
04:04
<alkisg>
I think the proper way would be to see if the gnome session manager is running on the system dbus
04:04
(or the session dbus)
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04:06
<alkisg>
E.g. call org.gnome.SessionManager.CanShutdown() and see if the call is available, and what it returns
04:06
If it returns true, then we're in a gnome session, and we can shutdown.
04:08
cyberorg: dbus-send --session --dest=org.gnome.SessionManager --type=method_call --print-reply --reply-timeout=2000 /org/gnome/SessionManager org.gnome.SessionManager.CanShutdown
04:08
method return sender=:1.3 -> dest=:1.684 reply_serial=2
04:08
boolean true
04:08
If that returns true, then we're in a gnome session.
04:10
But I guess you could also just call both of the DE logout functions - I don't see how it would hurt... => 2 dbus-send calls
04:10
You could even put both of the calls in the .desktop file, and avoid the need to ship a logout script
04:18
<cyberorg>
something like this? http://pastebin.com/d20e286
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04:30
<alkisg>
cyberorg: or like this: Exec=sh -c 'xprop etc; gnome-session-save --logout; qdbus org.kde.ksmserver /KSMServer logout 0 0 0"
04:31
<cyberorg>
alkisg, ah send both commands :)
04:31
<alkisg>
This way no ltsp-logoff script would be needed...
04:31
It's a hack, but well, the proper way here would be for ltsp to listen for dbus events :D
04:36
<cyberorg>
alkisg, it works :)
04:37
<alkisg>
cyberorg: also, .desktop files have an OnlyShowIn=GNOME (or KDE or XFCE) entry , so one could have multiple desktop files and only one would show up depending on the DE
04:37
This may be better, as it can have different icons depending on the DE
04:38* cyberorg likes this hack for its simplicity
04:38
<alkisg>
So, 2 .desktop files, one for KDE and one for GNOME, with the respective OnlyShowIn entry (and later on 1 .desktop file for XFCE)
04:38
And both of the desktop files would be installed, no need to only install only one of them
04:38
E.g. try: grep OnlyShowIn /etc/xdg/autostart/*.desktop
04:40
Tjat
04:41
That's also the way synaptic uses:
04:41
dpkg -L synaptic|grep desktop
04:41
/usr/share/applications/synaptic.desktop
04:41
/usr/share/applications/synaptic-kde.desktop
04:41
<cyberorg>
we use it for compiz settings tool
04:42
<alkisg>
It may be better, as it allows for different icons. E.g. KDE might not have the gnome icon...
04:42
<cyberorg>
true
04:42* alkisg still prefers the gnome-session patch, though :)
04:42
<cyberorg>
we can ship our own icons though
04:43
<alkisg>
Right, but it's also more elegant (to not execute 3 commands in a row without checking the DE first )
04:43
And "OnlyShowIn" is quite standard: http://standards.freedesktop.org/menu-spec/latest/apb.html
04:44
<cyberorg>
we need xdg-logout script to take care of all possible DEs
04:47
<alkisg>
Yeah, that'd be nice... or even a standarized dbus function call
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09:29
<dmarkey_>
has anyone here used the spice protocol
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10:24
<ehrenpr>
can anyone help me setup opendns with my edubuntu server. i have configured dhcpd.conf with opendns address, but it doesnt seem to be working. I have a two nic setup.
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10:30
<alkisg>
ehrenpr: put DNS_SERVER=<ip> and SEARCH_DOMAIN=local in lts.conf
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10:31
<alkisg>
Also, you'll need to do NATting or something on the server...
10:31
<ehrenpr>
do I need to also chane /etc/resolv.conf
10:31
<alkisg>
distro/version?
10:31
<ehrenpr>
change
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10:31
<ehrenpr>
edubutu karmic
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10:32
<alkisg>
There's a bug about resolv.conf in Karmic, so you either have to put the patch, or use stgraber's PPA which has a newer ltsp version with the bug fixed
10:32
!stgraber-ppa
10:32
<ltspbot>
alkisg: "stgraber-ppa" :: https://launchpad.net/~stgraber/+archive/ppa
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10:34
<ehrenpr>
ok. let me try that
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10:34
<alkisg>
ehrenpr: why do you want this DNS? Do you use localapps?
10:36
<ehrenpr>
yes. Also I need some filtering for my school. and figured this would be the simplest way to go
10:37
do you recommend something else
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10:46
<Ahmuck-Jr>
endian firewall
10:46
and dans guardian
10:46
there are some firefox add ons that do filtering as well
10:46
ehrenpr: u from the us?
10:50
<ehrenpr>
yes western ny. I have used opendns filtering at home and find it a good start, but Working at a school I want to be extra cautios and setup a couple levels
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17:13
<SalsaDoom>
Hi fellas. Having a problem with logging into an ubuntu 9.10 ltsp server. It boots ok, and loads up an x11 login screen just fine -- but any user account says "authentification failed". /var/log/auth.log doesn't show anything about this..
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17:13
<SalsaDoom>
Now, I've read what appears to be the relevant documentation, but there really isn't a lot. Google hasn't helped me either so far...
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21:41
<sbalneav>
Evening all
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