IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 13 July 2009   (all times are UTC)

00:00
<marks256>
Ahmuck_, sbalneav sound works upon reboot.
00:01
<Ahmuck_>
so ... on boot, i have NVidia CK804 (Alsa mixer), Realtek ALC850 rev 0 (OSS Mixer), Playback: Intel 82801BA-ICH2 (Pulse Audio Mixer), Capture: Monitor of Intel 82801BA-ICH2 (Pulse Audio Mixer), Capture: Intel 82801BA-ICH2 (Pulse Audio Mixer)
00:01
when i loose sound, i loose all the (Pulse Audio Mixer) devices
00:02
<marks256>
And upon reboot, my sound is glitchy again.
00:02
some sort of reverb delay or something
00:02
<Ahmuck_>
the NVidia & Realtek is server side, not client side
00:04
<marks256>
so if i turn the volume down on the client, it is no longer glitchy.
00:04
<alkisg>
Ahmuck_: try to remove the user from the audio group, so that he doesn't have access to the server audio devices, to see if it helps. Logoff/logon.
00:04
<sbalneav>
Ahmuck_: Pulse is probably crashing on the thin client for some reason.
00:05
<Ahmuck_>
thin client is 800mhz, 512mb ram
00:06
alkisg: i noticed this in a forum post as well. wouldn't this be by defualt?
00:07
<marks256>
and sound just stopped again. Rhytmbox couldn't see anymore songs (it thinks they're all missing, and sound stopped working.)
00:07
<alkisg>
Ahmuck_: I'm not sure. I've filed a bug about the users being able to change the sound volume of the server instead of their own's; and that workaround was suggest by stgraber. So now I don't put my users in the audio group...
00:07
Maybe yours is a different bug, e.g. pulseaudio crashing, like sbalneav said, but maybe you would use the same workaround to prevent it from appearing.
00:08
*could
00:08
<Ahmuck_>
chance on getting this changed for 9.10 so that users don't get added to audio group by default?
00:09
<sbalneav>
None.
00:09
Because if you added a user to a machine normally, you'd want them in the audio group.
00:09
<alkisg>
I don't know, you'd have to ask the devs. To make it the default for users-admin you can edit the /etc/gnome-system-tools/users/profiles and delete the audio group from there.
00:09
<sbalneav>
right.
00:10
<Ahmuck_>
for every user?
00:10
<sbalneav>
LTSP's only one use case. One that requires some special fancy stuff on distros.
00:11
<alkisg>
That's for new users. For existing users, if they all belong to a specific group (e.g. audio), you may use usermod in a for loop and remove them.
00:11
<marks256>
WTF! A user can plug in a usb drive, but they are not allowed to unmount it???
00:11
<Ahmuck_>
marks256: i don't like the WT*
00:11
<marks256>
Ahmuck_, sorry.
00:12
<sbalneav>
For ltsp terminals, you just pull the device out, after a second or so of inactivity.
00:12
<marks256>
Ahmuck_, i won't use it here anymore
00:12
<sbalneav>
There's no "eject" needed.
00:12
<marks256>
sbalneav, but! but! it goes against instincts!
00:12
sbalneav, so you really don't have to un mount a drive? it won't corrupt data or anything??
00:13
<sbalneav>
No, ltspfs handles syncing and unmounting the drive on the thin client automatically.
00:13
<marks256>
sbalneav, i'm still hesitant...
00:13
<sbalneav>
The drive looks like it's still there, but if you haven't done anything to it for two seconds, then it's unmounted.
00:14
<marks256>
sbalneav, so it auto unmounts? ok. i can rest easier now just yanking a drive out :)
00:14
<Ahmuck_>
nn, i've got to get sleep
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00:16
<marks256>
Ahmuck_, sleep is over rated ;)
00:17
<sbalneav>
alkisg: I never use the graphical user add thingy: at work I have a series of self-maintained shell scripts that deal with the LDAP and server setup, etc. And at home, I just user useradd :)
00:18
<alkisg>
sbalneav: me too uses useradd... to import the users from a .csv :)
00:19
Students create their own accounts on a web system, and I get all the accounts and pass them to useradd by a script... it saves them from having to remember 2 different usernames
00:19
<marks256>
So i put an MP3 on a usb jump drive, and loaded it on a client with totem. It played for a while (no glitches) but then after a few minutes, i had an "error: disconnected" error, and now sound no longer works.
00:20
<sbalneav>
Probably pulse crashed on the thin client.
00:20
What kind of sound hardware in the thin client?
00:21
<marks256>
it is a crappy old IBM netvista tower
00:21
running at like 2.6ghz. got 2gb of ram
00:23
sbalneav, any ideas? i've used linux for a few years now, but i'm walking in new territory here with this LTSP stuff...
00:25
sbalneav, i guess it's a thinkcentre. but still. specs are the same
00:30
<sbalneav>
Not sure. It's getting late here as well. Check in tomorrow, I'll see if I can find anything on that hardware.
00:30
I'm going to head to bed.
00:30
Night all
00:30
<marks256>
sbalneav, thanks anyway. i should sleep too
00:31
lol
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02:44
<klausade>
should access to cd/dvd on the thinclient using vlc/mplayer/.. running as localapps "just work"? Or do I need to do something special? localapps works otherwise just fine.
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07:19
<maginot>
good morning
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09:37
<clickingmouse>
hi
09:38
can someone tell me what to do when the client cant boot with a could not load tftp...../pxelinux.0 connection timed out error?
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09:40
<clickingmouse>
anyone?
09:41
<l0C0>
clickingmouse: is your server running a firewall?
09:43
<clickingmouse>
i dont think so..
09:43
not sure
09:43
i downloaded a stock fedora and installed ltsp
09:43
fedora 10
09:44
<l0C0>
make sure if there's a firewall running, the tftp port is open
09:44
<clickingmouse>
how do i check/do that?
09:45
<l0C0>
I'm an Ubuntu user, so I'm not sure where it's located in fedora
09:45
<clickingmouse>
....
09:45
<l0C0>
the port is 69 anyway
09:46
<clickingmouse>
how would i know if the pxelinux.0 is there?
09:46
<l0C0>
tftp doesn't support file listing
09:48
<clickingmouse>
i dont see tftp anywhere in my firewall..
09:48
<l0C0>
which means it's probably not open
09:49
<clickingmouse>
so it's a good thing?
09:49
<l0C0>
you need it open if you want your client to be able to download pxelinux.0 via tftp ;)
09:50
<clickingmouse>
yep it's a good thing!
09:50
<sbalneav>
Morning all
09:50
<clickingmouse>
not it says nfsmount error
09:50
<bieb>
morning sbalneav
09:50
<ogra>
!s
09:50
<ltspbot>
ogra: "s" is Scotty!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
09:50
<sbalneav>
Ogra!!
09:50
<ogra>
:)
09:50
<clickingmouse>
nfsmount:error mounting ....i386 on /sysroot as nfs:no route to host...
09:51
what does that mean in english?
09:51
<ogra>
it doesnt find your nfs server
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09:52
<clickingmouse>
what should i do then?
09:52
<l0C0>
which could also be a firewall problem
09:52
<ogra>
make it find your nfs server :) ... sorry no fedora user here ...
09:52
<l0C0>
in fact, disable your server's firewall, and try booting your client
09:53
<ogra>
right there could be a firewall in the way, the info your client has where to find your nfs server could be wrong or the nfs service is simply not running on the srever
09:53
<clickingmouse>
okay... et me try disabling my firewall
09:54
is ltsp on fedora that bad?
09:54
<l0C0>
never done ltsp on fedora
09:54
<ogra>
no, but not many people are around here that know a lot about it
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09:54
<sbalneav>
I don't think so, but if you've got a firewall, that's going to cause some issues.
09:54
<clickingmouse>
same error
09:54
<sbalneav>
Is nfs running?
09:55
<clickingmouse>
i disabled firewall
09:56
nfs is running
09:59
so is this a dead end?
09:59
<l0C0>
nope, not at all
10:00
just because I don't know the answer, doesn't mean that it's not possible
10:03
<sbalneav>
what does your /etc/exportfs file say?
10:04
<Ahmuck_>
didn't redhat go to something else?
10:05
sbalneav: still up, ur time zone must be different than mine
10:05
or u need less sleep
10:06
<clickingmouse>
still up
10:06
i am in china!
10:07
exportfs file does not exists...
10:07
<ogra>
Ahmuck_, for sbalneav it should be around noon atm :)
10:07gentgeen__ has quit IRC
10:07
<ogra>
(between 10 and 12 somewhere :) )
10:08
<clickingmouse>
"/opt/ltsp *(ro,async,no_root_squash)"
10:11
<Ahmuck_>
ah, he's east cost
10:11
coast
10:11
<sbalneav>
Ahmuck_: Central
10:12
clickingmouse: Hmm, that seems alright.
10:12
Where are your thin clients picking their dhcp up from? The thin client server?
10:13
<clickingmouse>
yes
10:13
basically my setup is Internet->(server/this pc/stock fedora + ltsp) -> router/switch ->thin client
10:14
<ogra>
are you sure there is no other dhcp server running on the same network
10:14
i.e. on a router
10:14
<clickingmouse>
yes
10:14
very sure about that
10:14
<sbalneav>
What does your dhcpd.conf file look like?
10:15
<ogra>
err, wait, you have your server directly on the internat, *then* you got a router and there you route the clients from ?
10:15
<sbalneav>
Can you paste it to the pastebot?
10:15
<ogra>
(a *router*, not a siwthc)
10:15
*switch
10:15
<clickingmouse>
i config my router as a switch
10:15
<sbalneav>
ogra: Whoah, is that what he's doing? :)
10:15
<ogra>
hmm
10:15
sbalneav, see his ascii diagram above :)
10:15
<clickingmouse>
basically the whole darn setup was working with a ltspstock
10:15
<ogra>
Internet->(server/this pc/stock fedora + ltsp) -> router/switch ->thin client
10:16
<clickingmouse>
but i got this bright idea to try to setup ltsp w/ a stock fedora
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10:19
<_UsUrPeR_>
can someone tell me how local_apps_menu_items changes commands in the menu? I have been trying to get ltsp-localapps firefox 3.5 to work with the menus and have had no luck quite yet.
10:20
<sbalneav>
I beleive it uses the ssh connetion to push some menu overrides up to the server
10:24
<ogra>
_UsUrPeR_, your command is: ltsp-localapps firefox 3.5
10:24
??
10:24
thats not the name of the binary :)
10:24
<_UsUrPeR_>
ogra: naw. I just installed firefox-3.5 on my TC image
10:25
<ogra>
right, call it as firefox-3.5
10:25
<_UsUrPeR_>
ahh. so "local_apps_menu_items = firefox-3.5" will work?
10:26
<ogra>
might
10:26
i'm not sure on what the loaclapps menu code matches ... if its the exec line in the .desktop file it will work with that
10:27
<sbalneav>
I think it's the name of the .desktop file, minus the .desktop
10:27
<ogra>
if its the .desktop filename its fine as well
10:28
ogra@osiris:~$ ls /usr/share/applications/firefox*
10:28
firefox-3.5.desktop firefox.desktop
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10:37* Ahmuck_ internet --> router --> switch --> server --> switch --> thin_client
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10:39
<Ahmuck_>
ogra, installing to chroot should auto set the menu to localapps if localapps is enabled?
10:39l0C0 has quit IRC
10:39
<ogra>
i think it needs an lts.conf switch being set
10:39
but with that it should automatically replace the server entries with localapp ones
10:40
or if the app isnt on the server, add it to the menu
10:42
<_UsUrPeR_>
I ogra: yeah, I have replaced/ln -s all executables
10:42
yet it's still starting via server instead of the client :/
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10:42
<ogra>
"replaced/ln -s all executables" ??
10:42
you dont have to replace/link *anything*
10:42
<Ahmuck_>
i'm having the same problem
10:43
it appears that localapps only works if i execute from command line
10:43
<ogra>
at least as i understood stgraber's implementation
10:43
<alkisg>
DNS_SERVER=10.160.31.1
10:43
SEARCH_DOMAIN=ioa.sch.gr
10:43
LOCAL_APPS_MENU=True
10:43
<Ahmuck_>
somethings broke then or i'm stupid. i've followed the instructions anyhow
10:44
<alkisg>
That's about all that's needed in lts.conf...
10:44
<ogra>
http://www.stgraber.org/2009/03/31/ltsp-past-and-future
10:45
"Basically you can now install firefox in your LTSP chroot, set LOCAL_APPS_MENU to True in your lts.conf and here you go with your usual firefox running locally on your thin client. "
10:46
note that FF is *special* ... if a firefox for the same user is running it will always only attach to the running process if you call another one
10:47
so if you already have one FF running locally on the server, subsequent excutions of the binary wont start new ones on the client
10:48
<Ahmuck_>
the local apps spec on the web appears to be incomplete
10:48
<ogra>
which spec ?
10:48
<alkisg>
link?
10:49
<Ahmuck_>
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ltsp-localapps
10:49
it appears to be a work in progress
10:49
<ogra>
links to https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ltsp/+spec/ltsp-localapps
10:49
never got implemented like that
10:50
Definition: Review
10:50
Implementation: Started
10:50
its not even approved for implementation, ignored that
10:50
*ignore even
10:50
<Ahmuck_>
is the top google entry
10:50
<_UsUrPeR_>
alkisg/ogra: so the LOCAL_APPS_MENU_ITEMS = portion is not needed?
10:50
<Ahmuck_>
shouldn't there be a way to purge this?
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10:50
<alkisg>
_UsUrPeR_: it's only needed if you want to restrict local apps to a few selected ones
10:51
<ogra>
_UsUrPeR_, as i understand LOCAL_APPS_MENU=True and *no replacing, copying linking* and it should work
10:51
<_UsUrPeR_>
hmm
10:51
<ogra>
Ahmuck_, ask google how to purge stuff from their database :)
10:51
<_UsUrPeR_>
I did an apt-get install firefox-3.5 and removed old 3.0, and it is still running it from the server :/
10:53
<alkisg>
_UsUrPeR_: so you have ff 3.5 in the chroot? (I wonder which repo you used...)
10:53
<Ahmuck_>
ogra: if the spec is no good, shouldn't it be 404'd
10:53
<_UsUrPeR_>
alkisg: correct
10:53
<Ahmuck_>
it's coming right from wiki.ubuntu.com
10:53
<alkisg>
_UsUrPeR_: ok, if you run: ltsp-localapps firefox, does it run locally?
10:53
<ogra>
Ahmuck_, no, the status should be set to obsolete, thats how launchpad works
10:54
<Ahmuck_>
is this why when you search for something revelant you get 10,000 links?
10:54
<ogra>
Ahmuck_, its a wiki :)
10:54
<_UsUrPeR_>
alkisg: yes. firefox 3.5 runs locally with that command
10:54
<ogra>
feel free to add a note at the top that it was implemented differently upstream and point to proper documentation
10:55
<alkisg>
_UsUrPeR_: and what do you have in lts.conf concerning local apps?
10:55
<Ahmuck_>
k, where is the proper implementation at?
10:56
<ltsppbot>
"_UsUrPeR_" pasted "lts.conf for alkisg" (3 lines) at http://pastebot.ltsp.org/441
10:57
<_UsUrPeR_>
alkist: I had tried the following with menu_items also:
10:57
<ltsppbot>
"_UsUrPeR_" pasted "lts.conf for alkisg" (3 lines) at http://pastebot.ltsp.org/442
10:57
<_UsUrPeR_>
neither had an effect :/
10:57
<alkisg>
_UsUrPeR_: LOCAL_APPS is true by default
10:58
So that one's not needed
10:58
What do you get by doing: env|grep XDG
10:58
on a client terminal? Not a local one, a normal gnome-terminal running on a client...
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11:00
<_UsUrPeR_>
alkisg: when run from the "server", it gives me a session cookie and data dirs
11:00
so I opened a non-localapps terminal session and ran that
11:02
<alkisg>
_UsUrPeR_: no, don't run it from the server; use an LTSP client
11:03
Local apps modify the xdg data dir
11:04
(when a user logs on - so the modification won't show up on the server)
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11:10
<_UsUrPeR_>
alkisg: I did run it from a client
11:10
<alkisg>
_UsUrPeR_: and your XDG data dir wasn't modified to include a dir on /tmp?
11:11
<ltsppbot>
"_UsUrPeR_" pasted "XDG for alkisg" (3 lines) at http://pastebot.ltsp.org/443
11:11
<_UsUrPeR_>
alkisg: there's the output
11:11
<alkisg>
Ah, so it's ok: /tmp/ltsp-localapps-test-SVEawL
11:12
Now, this directory should contain firefox.desktop or whatever other local app .desktop files you have. Does it?
11:12
<_UsUrPeR_>
alkisg: is that /tmp on the server or the client?
11:12
<alkisg>
server
11:13
(I think :))
11:13
<_UsUrPeR_>
yeah
11:14
ok, it has it has one for 3.5 in there, but I think that's because I tested it out with "ltsp-localapps firefox-3.5"
11:16* Gadi wonders if _UsUrPeR_is clicking the little icon in the panel or is actually going to Applications > Internet > Firefox
11:16
<ogra>
ltsp-localapps firefox-3.5 shouldnt add anything to that XDG dir
11:17
<_UsUrPeR_>
hmm
11:17
<ogra>
indeed, the panel icon isnt replaced by ltsp
11:18
only the menu ...
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11:19
<marks256>
How do i run updates on the client image?
11:20
do i chroot into it and do sudo apt-get upgrade?
11:21
<_UsUrPeR_>
ogra: ok, I see what happened. It created a separate icon for "minefield"
11:21
I was unaware that minefield would be a firefox... "thing"
11:22
<ogra>
smells like a bug in the parser for the .desktop file
11:22
<_UsUrPeR_>
ogra: not really... It's a new icon/program name for firefox
11:22
http://www.mozilla.org/projects/minefield/
11:22
<alkisg>
_UsUrPeR_: how did you install firefox 3.5? Using a PPA or something?
11:23
<ogra>
_UsUrPeR_, it should be called "Shiretoko" in your menu
11:23
i dont get why it says minefiled
11:23
its not the way its packaged here
11:23
<_UsUrPeR_>
alkisg: just added to the sources.list
11:23
<marks256>
yean it looks like i type in 'sudo chroot /opt/ltsp/i386 apt-get upgrade
11:24
'
11:24
<alkisg>
_UsUrPeR_: ok, but *which* PPA?
11:24
<marks256>
do i need to rebuild the image after updates?
11:24
<alkisg>
The one with the daily builds?
11:24
<_UsUrPeR_>
pa.launchpad.net/ubuntu-mozilla-daily/ppa/ubuntu jaunty main
11:24
err... ppa.launchpad.net/ubuntu-mozilla-daily/ppa/ubuntu jaunty main
11:24
alkisg: yeah, daily
11:25
<alkisg>
Isn't that totally unstable for production use?
11:25
marks256: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/UpdatingChroot
11:25
<marks256>
alkisg, thanks i'll take a look
11:25
<_UsUrPeR_>
yeah, totally unstable
11:26
<alkisg>
ok
11:26
<ogra>
_UsUrPeR_, there is a 3.5 in universe i thought
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11:31
<bieb>
sbalneav: Scott you still around?
11:32
<marks256>
any ideas on why pulseaudio would crash on a client? it doensn't matter what client it is, it always crashes after ~2 minutes of audio listening. Audio is glitchy (slow and reverb) unless it is paused then played, or volume is adjusted. then after about 2-3 minutes it will die. A logout and login works, but repeats the cycle.
11:34
<sbalneav>
bieb: yep, goin' for lunch shortly
11:34
<bieb>
sbalneav: did you get the long info I sent you Friday?
11:34
<sbalneav>
marks256: Have you done updates in the chroot?
11:35
bieb: Yes I did.
11:35
Thank you.
11:35
<marks256>
sbalneav, no i'm doing that now.
11:35
sbalneav, at least trying.
11:35
<sbalneav>
I beleive pulse has seen some updates, so that may help.
11:35* Ahmuck_ backreading
11:35
<bieb>
sbalneav: I was talking about the one I sent here on IRC about the local user vs AD user?
11:36
<sbalneav>
Yes. Yo've set up the wine stuff under the one user, correct?
11:37
<bieb>
yeah it was setup under the AD user.. not the original user I created
11:37
<sbalneav>
Now, what you'll have to do is: move that .wine/drive_c/Program Files into some kind of shared area
11:37
and manually set up symlinks to it for all the users you want to share the info.
11:38
<Ahmuck_>
sbalneav: updates from last evening?
11:38
<sbalneav>
No, from a month or so ago
11:39
Do you have -updates and -security listed in the chroot's sources.list?
11:40
<bieb>
sbalneav: should I reinstall crossover and Office2007 under the server's initial user? then do the symlinks? When I do the ltsp-update-image, the clients dont see the "office" software
11:41
<sbalneav>
bieb: It doesn't make a difference. You're going to have to do a *lot* of manual twiddling to get that to work, as I told you.
11:41
When you install a crossover office application, it just installs it *for that user*.
11:41
<bieb>
sbalneav: ok.. I wasn't sure if part of the issue was the 2 different home directories
11:41
<sbalneav>
To make it global will require fiddling.
11:43
<bieb>
sbalneav: know anyone who has done it, that might have a "twiddling" how-to?
11:44
or some pointers?
11:45
<sbalneav>
Not that I'm aware of, but as usual, GIYF.
11:46
When I did it, it was about a day's worth of tweaking.
11:46
I did not document it :)
11:46
<bieb>
GIYF?
11:46
<sbalneav>
As for pointers:
11:46
Use OpenOffice.org :)
11:46
<bieb>
LOL
11:46
<sbalneav>
Google Is Your Friend
11:46
<bieb>
ahh
11:47
<sbalneav>
Off for lunch, back in an hour.
11:47
<bieb>
did you get a chance to look at the sabayon errors?
11:47
<sbalneav>
Nope
11:47
<bieb>
ok
11:47
<sbalneav>
Not yet
11:49
<bieb>
sbalneav: cool.. talk to you later.. have a good lunch
12:03vagrantc has joined #ltsp
12:22
<marks256>
sbalneav, no updates available. pulse audio seems to be broken :(
12:24
<vagrantc>
marks256: what linux distro? versions?
12:24
<marks256>
vagrantc, ubuntu 9.04
12:24
<vagrantc>
it's been borked in debian testing for a while now...
12:25
<marks256>
vagrantc, so i'm not doing something wrong then? any ideas how to fix it?
12:25
vagrantc, 0.9.14 is the version of pulse audio
12:29
vagrantc, should i maybe use fedora?
12:32
<vagrantc>
i have no idea.
12:33
i just know it's also broken in debian, but it would surprise me that it's broken in that version of ubuntu and nobody's noticed
12:33
as it's been out for several months now.
12:33
<marks256>
vagrantc, i'll try fedora 11
12:35
gotta drive 20 miles to get the disk :)
12:36
<vagrantc>
i'd suspect something misconfigured...
12:39mikkel has joined #ltsp
12:50
<sbalneav>
Back
12:52
marks256: ii pulseaudio 1:0.9.14-0ubuntu20 PulseAudio sound server
12:52
Is that what you have in the chroot?
12:57
marks256: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=776739
13:00fotanus has joined #ltsp
13:02
<sbalneav>
Hmm, pulse 0.9.15's been released.
13:02
I could always do a ppa.
13:04
<cliebow>
marks256:you'll get better support in ubuntu/debian since wtogami is not here much anymore
13:18
<_UsUrPeR_>
rargh
13:18
ok, why does seting up iptables for ip_forward always die after reboot?
13:19
I've added stuff to rc.local, I am doing it manually now,
13:19
and I can't access external networks
13:19
i.e. web pages with ltsp-localapps ::(
13:32jammcq has joined #ltsp
13:32
<jammcq>
good afternoon friends
13:34
<cliebow>
jammcq!!!
13:35bobby_C has quit IRC
13:35
<jammcq>
cliebow: hey
13:36
<cliebow>
Hey!
13:40
<rjune_wrk>
!j
13:40
<ltspbot>
rjune_wrk: "j" is jammcq!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
13:40
<jammcq>
hey rjune_wrk
13:43
<cliebow>
!rj
13:43
<ltspbot>
cliebow: Error: "rj" is not a valid command.
13:43
<cliebow>
hee hee
13:45spectra has joined #ltsp
13:47
<_UsUrPeR_>
Ok, I can ping from client's screen_02 to google, but I cannot pull up a web site with localapp'd firefox
13:47
how are these incongruent?
13:49
<jammcq>
try this: telnet www.google.com 80
13:49
fro the screen-02
13:49
from
13:50
<_UsUrPeR_>
jammcq: command not found
13:50
<jammcq>
hmm, no telnet in the crhoot
13:50
err... chroot :)
13:50
<_UsUrPeR_>
that does not seem like the desired output :)
13:54
ok, so I can ping from screen_02, but if I run ltsp-localapps xterm and try to ping, nothing
13:54
this is in line with firefox
13:56
this is after I just re-built my TC image
13:56
with --copy-sourceslist
13:56
installed firefox
13:56
via apt-get
13:56
and ran an apt-get upgrade as well
13:56
<jammcq>
hmm
13:56bobby_C has joined #ltsp
13:57Lns has joined #ltsp
13:57
<_UsUrPeR_>
there's a host of inconsistencies between screen_02 and xterm as well
13:58
for instance, ifconfig does not exist in localapps xterm
13:58
cannot ping
14:01
<Gadi>
sounds secure
14:01
you should sell that
14:01
:)
14:01* Gadi waves to jammcq
14:02
<_UsUrPeR_>
gadi: little help
14:02
<Gadi>
oh sure, just because I'm "little"
14:02
<_UsUrPeR_>
I need to figure out a marketing campaign for this security feature I just came up with
14:02
<Gadi>
_UsUrPeR_: ls -l /etc/resolv.conf
14:02
<_UsUrPeR_>
read above ;)
14:02
<Gadi>
compare and contrast
14:03
<_UsUrPeR_>
hold on, it's giving me a big problem with initramfs now :/
14:03
<jammcq>
Gadi: howdie
14:03
<Gadi>
jammcq: I haven't spoken to you since you came back from under the world
14:03
is it true what they say - demons, spirits, scantily-clad women?
14:04
<cliebow>
scantily clad buxom what?
14:04
or who?
14:05
<jammcq>
Gadi: umm, yeah, pretty much
14:05
<Gadi>
cliebow: the food network had a throwdown in your backyard a couple weeks ago
14:05
something about cakes made out of crab
14:05
who would put sprinkles on crab?
14:06
jammcq: I knew it!
14:06
happy birthday, LTSP!
14:06* Gadi passes LTSP a cake with crabs and sprinkles
14:06
<_UsUrPeR_>
:O
14:06
<jammcq>
Gadi: yeah, not so much birthday celebrating down there. We've decided we'll do the big party at the end of october in Maine
14:07
<cliebow>
Gadi:i had a chat with Masrtha Stewart the other day
14:07
<Gadi>
cool
14:07
(x2)
14:07
:)
14:07
<cliebow>
it was rough and she was staggering down the doewck..i asked er why she was walking like a drunken sailor
14:07
<jammcq>
heh
14:07
<cliebow>
she told me she had a bum knee..
14:08
then i figured out who she was
14:09
<_UsUrPeR_>
did you tell her "It's a good thing" after?
14:09
<Gadi>
cliebow: be careeful, I think she bites
14:09
<cliebow>
she was very nice..considering..
14:10
they enlisted her to start the mdi marathon a couple years back..then found out that as a convicted felob she wasnt allowed to use the strating gun 8~
14:10
)
14:10
cripes..
14:11
<Gadi>
there's always an egg timer
14:11
<jammcq>
heheheheheh
14:11
<marks256>
sbalneav, i'm back. pulse audio is the same in chroot
14:11
<cliebow>
they gave her a whistle
14:11
<jammcq>
or, she could just yell BANG !!!!!
14:11
<Gadi>
jammcq: she had enough of that in prison
14:11
<jammcq>
prolly
14:11
<cliebow>
she Can get herself heard when necessary
14:12
<Ahmuck_>
soooo, get the localapps figured out?
14:13
<Gadi>
whats with all the technical support questions?
14:13
;)
14:13
<marks256>
sbalneav, i'm back. pulse audio is the same in chroot
14:13
<Gadi>
cool - there's an echo in here
14:14
judging from the 2 minute interval, I estimate the channel to be about 20 feet deep
14:14
<marks256>
oops lol
14:14
<Gadi>
:)
14:14
<cliebow>
big party? you mean biggER party?
14:14
<marks256>
i forgot i typed it in already lol
14:14
<Gadi>
marks256: Im just playing
14:14
:)
14:14
<marks256>
Gadi, :)
14:14
<_UsUrPeR_>
gadi: got me. it was the resolv.conf bug
14:14
thanks :)
14:15
<Gadi>
_UsUrPeR_: np
14:15
_UsUrPeR_: I think there is an upgrade that fixed it
14:15
in the repo
14:15litlebuda has joined #ltsp
14:16
<Gadi>
_UsUrPeR_: have youtried: sudo chroot /opt/ltsp/i386 apt-get dist-upgrade
14:16
<_UsUrPeR_>
negative
14:16
<Gadi>
(hmm... or was the fix in stgraber's ppa...)
14:16
_UsUrPeR_: see if a new ltsp-client is there and just "held back"
14:16
when you do a regular upgrade
14:17
<_UsUrPeR_>
rgr
14:17
<Gadi>
"held back" is usually because dependencies change
14:17
and I seem to recall one time when I had to actually tell it to go ahead and install
14:24
<marks256>
gah pulse audio makes me so angry... :/
14:25
<Gadi>
let me guess, he's giving you the silent treatment
14:25
<cliebow>
omg
14:27* Gadi thinks the echo is getting louder
14:29
<cliebow>
is there an echo?
14:29
<marks256>
Gadi, no. it crashes after a minute or so
14:29
on the client
14:30
<Gadi>
marks256: what are you doing to the poor thing?
14:34
<marks256>
Gadi, idk! it just worked that like stock. Audio would be gittery, then if a change is made to the volume, or if audio is paused or stopped, it will work normally for a few minutes, then it will crash. no audio, nothing. A restart solves the problem, but then it continues the circle. gittery, then crash
14:35
<Gadi>
what application?
14:35
<sbalneav>
marks256: There was a bug with pulse crashing on pause, one second.
14:36
<marks256>
sbalneav, it wouldn't crash on pause only. even changing the volume will cause it to crash after a minute to two minutes.
14:36
<sbalneav>
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=825796
14:37
They've fixed some crasher bugs in 0.9.15
14:38
<marks256>
sbalneav, i've got that link up i'll try it
14:38
sbalneav, so do i run those commands on the server, or under chroot?
14:39cliebow has quit IRC
14:40
<sbalneav>
I have no idea, I'm merely passing on information I find from google. This information is provided "as-is" with no claims as to fitness for it's intended use. As usual, your mileage may vary, please see dealer for details. :)
14:42
For me, in Hardy, pulse works fine.
14:42
<Gadi>
pimp
14:42
:P
14:43
<marks256>
sbalneav, maybe i'll pop in hardy... jaunty is ticking me off
14:44
<sbalneav>
Keep in mind Hardy doesn't have localapps, so if you're wanting that functionality, you'd be best to try to solve the crasher bug in pulse.
14:44
Have you attempted to log into the thin client locally and see what error messages there are in the logs re: pulse?
14:45
dmesg and/or the logs might have some useful information.
14:46
<marks256>
sbalneav, where is the pulse log file at?
14:46
<sbalneav>
Try setting the root password in the chroot, so you can log in on console F1
14:46
I don't think it has it's own specific log, but rather logs to daemon.log
14:46
/var/log/daemon.log
14:46Gadi has left #ltsp
14:47
<marks256>
sbalneav, log in as root on the console?
14:47
sbalneav, i'm so lost :( i'm sorry
14:47
<jammcq>
sbalneav: Scotty !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
14:47
<sbalneav>
First, set a root password in the chroot
14:47
Hey jammcq
14:48
<marks256>
sbalneav, how do i set root password in chroot?
14:48
<jammcq>
sbalneav: did you see the seating info I posted to you?
14:48
<sbalneav>
jammcq: yes, I'll do that right now.
14:48
<marks256>
sbalneav, i am logged in as root on chroot
14:48
sbalneav, passwd?
14:48
<sbalneav>
chroot /opt/ltsp/i386
14:49
passwd -u
14:49
exit
14:49
<marks256>
sbalneav, yeah i got it now
14:49
<sbalneav>
ltsp-update-image
14:50
<marks256>
AH! crap i keep forgetting to update the images every time i make a change to config files... could that be part of my problem that none of my attempts have worked?
14:53
sbalneav, i see no pulseaudio complaints in daemon.log
14:53
<sbalneav>
Yes
14:53
try user.log
14:54
So, you're doing a ctl-alt-f1 on the thin client, and logging in as root?
14:54
on the text console?
14:56
<marks256>
sbalneav, found a complaint in user.log from pulseaudio, but it doesn't seem like it is the problem.
14:56
something about a method not found in module-console-kit.c
14:57
but that only shows up once. I've had pulse crash on me multiple times
15:03
<sbalneav>
And you reboot after each time?
15:04
Because that log starts fresh with each boot, so unless you're manually restarting pulse, you'll only ever see one error.
15:04
Can you please paste the error to the pastebot?
15:04
!pastebot
15:04
<ltspbot>
sbalneav: "pastebot" is The LTSP pastebot is at http://pastebot.ltsp.org. Please paste all text longer than a line or two to the pastebot, as it helps to reduce traffic in the channel. A link to the content will be pasted in the channel.
15:05
<marks256>
sbalneav, i know what pastebin is ;) yeah i'll see what i can do. server is restarting now.
15:06
sbalneav, or i can do it to "pastebot" lol
15:07
<sbalneav>
You don't need to restart the server after a rebuild, only the thin client.
15:07
<marks256>
sbalneav, i need to make pulse crash again. it'll be a minute or two
15:07
sbalneav, ok. i'll remember that for next time. thanks
15:10
sbalneav, so what file do you want me to paste?
15:11
<CAN-o-SPAM>
jammcq: ping
15:13
<jammcq>
CAN-o-SPAM: pong
15:15
<sbalneav>
the error message from user.log
15:16
<marks256>
sbalneav, AHH!!! every time i've rebuilt the image it rebuilds the x64 image. i need to do 'ltsp-update-image --arch i386'
15:17
<ltsppbot>
"marks256" pasted "user.log" (26 lines) at http://pastebot.ltsp.org/444
15:17
<marks256>
sbalneav, there is my user.log file
15:17
sbalneav, i'm goign to rebuild the i386 image quick
15:18bobby_C has quit IRC
15:18CAN-o-SPAM has quit IRC
15:22maginot has quit IRC
15:24
<sbalneav>
marks256: That's not coming from the thin client.
15:24
that's from your server.
15:28
<marks256>
sbalneav, then how do i get it from the client?
15:29
<sbalneav>
Well, first off, have you logged in on the thin client yet on the text console?
15:29
Press control-alt-f1, log in as root, and the password you set, and then control-alt-f7 back here.
15:30
<marks256>
i'm not on a terminal for future reference. i'm on a totally different machine separate from the server/terminals. Ok. give me a second and i'll get on a tty
15:32
sbalneav, ok i'm logged in as root on tty1
15:34
<sbalneav>
You need to do it on a terminal
15:34
<marks256>
i am on a terminal
15:34
i'm on the terminal. tty1
15:34
<sbalneav>
I'm confused now.
15:35
Are you sitting at a thin client?
15:35
<marks256>
sbalneav, what exactly is it taht you want me to do? i've got control-atl-f1 up on the terminal. logged in as root
15:35
<sbalneav>
OK, but are you at a thin client?
15:36
<marks256>
sbalneav, yes
15:36
<sbalneav>
ok
15:36
<marks256>
but i'm on ircing from a thin client
15:36
not*
15:36
i'm on a laptop on irc
15:37
<sbalneav>
so, on tty1, check and see if pulse is running. ps -ef | grep pulse
15:38
Is it running, or has it failed?
15:38
<marks256>
sbalneav, it is running PID 6266
15:38
3266, sorry
15:39
<sbalneav>
Ok, so is audio working now on the thin client, or not?
15:39
<marks256>
sbalneav, yes, but it is in its glitchy state right now
15:40
<sbalneav>
OK, we want to make it fail.
15:40
So, cause it to die.
15:40
<marks256>
sbalneav, ok i can make that happen
15:40
sbalneav, give me a sec
15:45
sbalneav, ok it failed
15:45
<sbalneav>
Ok, check again, is it still running?
15:45
If it's not, then it died.
15:46
<marks256>
it is no longer there. it died
15:47
<sbalneav>
ok
15:47
What does the command dmesg give you? Anything that looks pulse related?
15:47mikkel has quit IRC
15:48
<marks256>
sbalneav, i'll check
15:49
sbalneav, no sign of any pulse related material in dmesg
15:50alkisg has joined #ltsp
15:51
<sbalneav>
ok, lets check both daemon.log, and user.log
15:51
in /var/log, btw
15:51
<marks256>
sbalneav, ok. how do i do this properly then?
15:51
sbalneav, ok i'll do nano /var/log/foo.log right?
15:54
<sbalneav>
That would be fine.
15:55
<marks256>
nano isn't found... :( i used vi and both files are empty.
15:56
<sbalneav>
Hm.
15:56
<marks256>
sbalneav, unless i did something wrong they are both empty. and i used tabbed completion, so i know the file names were right.
15:56
<sbalneav>
any non-zero log files in /var/log?
15:56
ls -l
15:57
<marks256>
you mean are there any files that aren't empty?
15:57
<sbalneav>
yes
15:57pmatulis has quit IRC
15:58
<marks256>
sbalneav, yes there are a few. i'll write them down. i'll skip the obvious ones though... like dhcp.
16:00
sbalneav, lastlog.log ldm.log, news, and wtmp.log
16:01
oops news is a directory...
16:05
<sbalneav>
Hm.
16:06
No, none of those will tell us anything.
16:07
So, pulse just dies with nary a peep.
16:07spectra has quit IRC
16:08
<marks256>
sbalneav, apparently so
16:08dorimar has quit IRC
16:09* sbalneav *shrugs*
16:09
<sbalneav>
Well, I can have a look tonight, see if I can build an updated pulse 0.9.15 from the new upstream release.
16:09
check with me tomorrow.
16:09
<marks256>
sbalneav, so i'm up a creek without a paddle
16:09
sbalneav, i'm not sure i'll be on tomorrow
16:10
sbalneav, should i just find a tutorial on how to setup pulse audio and try to compile myself?
16:10
<sbalneav>
Are you in a rush for this?
16:11
I mean, we just *use* pulse, it's not something the LTSP devs actually develop.
16:11
<marks256>
sbalneav, no, but it i really getting on my nerves and i'd like to finish it so i can move on to more frustrating projects :)
16:11
sbalneav, right. there are other alternatives, but i'm not familiar with them
16:12
<sbalneav>
Well, I'm willing to help you buy building you an updated pulse to see if that fixes your problem. Or, you could try switching your sound daemon to esd.
16:12
<marks256>
sbalneav, i suppose building updated pulse wouldn't hurt.
16:13
sbalneav, thank you for help so far by the way. i really appreciate it :)
16:14
is there a pulseaudio repo i could link to and then just update it?
16:14
<alkisg>
https://launchpad.net/~chrisirwin/+archive/cwi-pulseaudio ?
16:15
<marks256>
hmm... coudl i just put that in my sources.list file and just do apt-get upgrade?
16:15
<alkisg>
And another one here: https://launchpad.net/~themuso/+archive/ppa
16:15
I haven't used any of them, I just found them with google.
16:15
<marks256>
alkisg, thanks :)
16:16
yep. the sources.lst entry is right there for me to paste, too. :)
16:16
<sbalneav>
Ah, looks like someone already has it.
16:16
<marks256>
sbalneav, could i just put those in my sources.lst and upgrade? then rebuild the image?
16:16
<sbalneav>
Yes
16:16
<marks256>
sbalneav, shall i?
16:17
sbalneav, i have to put it in both my sources.lst files right? one for the server and one for the terminals?
16:18dorimar has joined #ltsp
16:27
<sbalneav>
I'd upgrade both, sure.
16:27
<marks256>
how do i add a signing key... i forgot...
16:27
<sbalneav>
As for "should you", as always, a complete set of backups is always handy, etc.
16:27
There should be instructions on the ppa.
16:28
Anywho, heading home for the day, I'll be on later tonight.
16:28
<marks256>
yep i found instructions
16:28
<sbalneav>
see you all later.
16:28
<marks256>
sbalneav, alright. thanks for the help. i'll be here ;) i'm sure youre excited for that
16:34marius-- has joined #ltsp
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16:35leio_ is now known as leio
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16:48sbalneavbb has joined #ltsp
16:49sbalneavbb has joined #ltsp
16:50
<sbalneavbb>
well, let's see if I can stay in the channel for more than 30 seconds.
16:50
silly dorkberry
16:51sbalneavbb has quit IRC
16:51sbalneavbb has joined #ltsp
16:51
<sbalneavbb>
duh
16:52
marks256: did that work?
16:53
<marks256>
sbalneavbb, kindof... it is hold back those updates in chroot though...
16:53
0 newly installed, 0 to remove, and 3 not upgraded
16:53
those three not upgraded are libpulse0 pulseaudio pulseaudio-esound-compat
16:53
<sbalneavbb>
any reason on the holdback?
16:54
<marks256>
that's what i'm wondering. why does it do that?
16:54
<sbalneavbb>
conflict?
16:54
<marks256>
sbalneavbb, how would i check?
16:55
<sbalneavbb>
what happens if you say apt-get install pulseaudio
16:57
that will usually tell you if there's a conflict
16:57
<marks256>
ok
16:58
it lets me install...
16:58
so i'm installing. it even installs one of the other 3. one of them still doesn't install though. shall i do that manually too?
16:58
<sbalneavbb>
is it installing some extras?
16:59
<marks256>
wait
16:59
<sbalneavbb>
yes
16:59
<marks256>
Errors were encountered while processing: /var/cache/apt/archives/pulseaudio_1%3a0.9.15-3ubuntu1~ppa2_i386.deb E: Sub-process /usr/bin/dpkg returned an error code (1)
17:00
<sbalneavbb>
wife here. Back in a bit
17:00
<marks256>
kk
17:01
<alkisg>
marks256: try with the other ppa, maybe it's better..
17:02Faithful has quit IRC
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17:07
<marks256>
alkisg, it worked fine on the server though
17:07
alkisg, but that's x64...
17:07
alkisg, i'll try it
17:14
nope same error
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17:19
<marks256>
can i remove pulse audio and the reinstall it, or would that mess up settings?
17:21
<alkisg>
marks256: did you mount /proc before installing?
17:22
<marks256>
alkisg, crap no. how do i do that again? it is like mount proc proc /proc right?
17:22
<alkisg>
marks256: here's the correct procedure for updating chroot, which is also valid for installing stuff: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/UpdatingChroot
17:22
Bookmark this :)
17:22
<marks256>
alkisg, thanks i was wondering where that site went :)
17:22
what is proc?
17:23
what is proc anyway?
17:23
oh it's the processes isn't it?
17:23
<alkisg>
A virtual directory ... yup
17:23
<marks256>
neat :)
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17:24
<marks256>
now i get The following packages have been kept back: pulseaudio pulseaudio-esound-compat 0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 2 not upgraded.
17:25
<alkisg>
Try with: apt-get install pulseaudio
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17:26
<marks256>
didn't get any errors...
17:26
<alkisg>
So it's installed now?
17:26
dpkg -l pulseaudio
17:27
<marks256>
alkisg, by golly it did!
17:27
now i just have to rebuild the image
17:29
random question... could i have multiple distros running under pxe? like... could the client boot up, and have a menu like grub so i can choose what OS i want to boot? like ubuntu or fedora, or something else? just totally curious :)
17:30
<alkisg>
Yes, but to do this somewhat easily you'd need different servers for each distro.
17:30
(or VMs)
17:31
<Lns>
Holy crap guys
17:31
http://www.techworld.com.au/article/310857/google_releases_open_source_nx_server
17:32
<marks256>
alkisg, that's ok. thanks i'll ask more about that later
17:32
sbalneavbb, audio didn't start out glitchy... i'll see if it crashes...
17:33
well it "crashed", but audio still works... ??
17:34
it crashes, but it still trys to push audio through the speakers. but it is crackly and jumps through the audio very rapidly.
17:35
<alkisg>
Lns, that's good news :)
17:35
<Lns>
alkisg: yeah! Maybe that can be something to help out LTSP with WAN/remote connections..? :) Of course it was just announced, no sound/etc...but think of the possibilities with a truly open source nx server!
17:36
I immediately think of students being able to get to their desktop from home
17:36
(without the server collapsing under load ;) )
17:36
<alkisg>
Yeah, and it would make possible to run some apps like e.g. 3d that do not easily run under ltsp
17:37
marks256: how fast is your client CPU?
17:37
<marks256>
alkisg, i'm not sure exactly, but i'd guess 2.3 - 2.6ghz
17:38
after sitting for a minute, audio works again for a few seconds
17:38
<alkisg>
Ah, ok, I was just wondering if it was CPU related, but no
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17:38
<marks256>
alkisg, no it's pleanty fast :) has 2gb of ram too
17:39
<alkisg>
"Sound, printer tunneling, Samba tunneling " => nx supports all that? cool!
17:42
<marks256>
if it matters sound seems to work on the server just fine...
17:47
any ideas?
17:50
i guess i'm going to pop in another hard drive and try a fresh install
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19:34
<Ahmuck_>
marks256: u have a managed switch?
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19:35
<Ahmuck_>
open nx server change the outlook for ltsp?
19:35
<marks256>
Ahmuck, a managed switch?
19:41
<Ahmuck_>
nm
19:42
<marks256>
ok
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19:56
<marks256>
lucascoala, having some troubles? :)
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20:20
<lucascoala>
dude, this is what i am having facing since last monday morning.
20:21
mark256 wassup ?
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22:01
<sbalneav>
Evening all
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22:10
<stgraber>
sbalneav: evening
22:12
<sbalneav>
Evening stgraber
22:13
<stgraber>
sbalneav: how's it going ?
22:15
<sbalneav>
Working on ldm ;)
22:22
<stgraber>
yeah !! ;)
22:22
I'm preparing a talk for LTSP on thursday at the linux symposium
22:22
speaking of both LTSP (what happened and what's to be expected) and LTSP-Cluster
22:26tylerfixer has joined #ltsp
22:27
<tylerfixer>
Hello! I've got a question regarding high thin client cpu usage, even with LDM_DIRECTX turned on.
22:32
<sbalneav>
!ask
22:32
<ltspbot>
sbalneav: "ask" is Don't ask to ask a question, simply ask it, and if someone knows the answer, they'll respond. Please hang around for at least 15 minutes after asking a question, as not everybody constantly monitors the channel.
22:33
<tylerfixer>
Sorry
22:33
Just didn't want to be rude and butt in
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22:35
<sbalneav>
And the question is...? :)
22:36
<tylerfixer>
My thin client is a Geode GX1 @ 300mhz, and I've got the right xorg drivers working after downgrading the LTSP chroot to 8.04, but even after changing LDM_DIRECTX to True, I still have very bad graphics performance. Changing to a console reveals that the xorg process is using 100% cpu, just sitting at the desktop.
22:36
(sorry, that took a long time to think out :)
22:36
<newbie>
hello, nvidia binaries? is there any docs about? Thanks.
22:36
<stgraber>
well, you said it ;) GX1 ...
22:37
<tylerfixer>
haha, well, I actually had this thin client working fine with 2X ThinClientServer PXES version, but I really like how LTSP is turning out
22:37
and I figured i'd give it a try
22:37
<stgraber>
the geode driver is still a lot better than VESA but will still overload when playing video or actively moving windows
22:37
<sbalneav>
Correct me if I'm wrong, but PXES uses a much older X, correct?
22:38
<tylerfixer>
here's what's funny about that, moving windows around on the screen is 100% accelerated, as in the cpu load does not go through the roof, but simply clicking the menu button in gnome raises the cpu usage to 100%
22:38
yes, PXES does use an old X and kernel
22:38
<sbalneav>
The Geode drivers in older X versions were better. As X has moved on, older graphics chipsets fall by the wayside.
22:38
You have 2 options
22:39
<tylerfixer>
okay
22:39
<sbalneav>
1) Stick with PXES
22:39
2) File bugs against the Geode driver upstream in Xorg
22:39
See if you can get someone to give the old geode drivers some love.
22:40
<tylerfixer>
yeah, I actually filed a bug against the NSC driver a few days ago, since there even isn't a build available for 9.04
22:40
so I had to downgrade the chroot to 8.04 to even get the nsc driver working
22:40
<stgraber>
I tried 2) without much success yet ...
22:40
intrepid works correctly, jaunty is broken and I hope to have something better than VESA for karmic (have to test it when I get back home)
22:40
<sbalneav>
I remeber we had problems even back in the LTSP 4.2 days, and had to have special patches for the nsc drivers.
22:41
<stgraber>
though that's on GX2, I don't have GX1 around
22:41
<tylerfixer>
yeah, it appears that the geode platform isn't getting a lot of attention lately
22:41
especially the gx1
22:41
<sbalneav>
That would be a hint to start thinking about grandfathering out the old thin clients :)
22:41
<tylerfixer>
well, unfortunately, I just purchased these :)
22:41
<sbalneav>
Ooooh.
22:42
<tylerfixer>
and i've spent the last few months re-writing the bios in them to get them to netboot
22:42
<sbalneav>
Lol.
22:42
How many you have?
22:42
<tylerfixer>
about 20
22:42
<sbalneav>
Ok, so do this math:
22:42
<tylerfixer>
they came with winCE3.0 :ugh:
22:43
<sbalneav>
Original purchase price + ( num hours * your rate of pay ) + (num hours left to get them to work * your rate of pay) >? ( cost of 20 new thin clients )
22:43
<stgraber>
how much did they cost you (if I may ask) ?
22:44
<sbalneav>
May be time to cut your losses :)
22:44
<tylerfixer>
i paid around $10/thin client on eBay
22:44
and $10 per 64mb ram stick
22:44
<stgraber>
ok, the price is corect then, that's basically what I'd pay for one of these ;)
22:44
<tylerfixer>
haha
22:44
they're nice little machines, under the right circumstances
22:45
<stgraber>
I mean, 10$ for a paperweight isn't that expensive ;)
22:45
<tylerfixer>
i tried making a custom winCE build, and they were VERY fast, but unfortunately I am not a MSDN member, so the CE build expired a week later
22:45
and even under PXES they could play full motion video using rdesktop just fine
22:45
<sbalneav>
So, then why not stick with pxes?
22:45
<stgraber>
yeah, basically the GX2 I've around only do RDP
22:45
because it's the only thing they can do without crashing for various reasons ...
22:46
<tylerfixer>
because I don't like the mentality of having a closed-source open-source OS
22:46
<newbie>
does ldm remember last xsession
22:46
<tylerfixer>
@stgraber lol
22:46
<newbie>
?
22:46
<stgraber>
once the video issue is fixed, you'll lack memory to do something useful with them (at least mines have 90MB of RAM, so not enough for heavy firefoxing)
22:46
<tylerfixer>
PXES doesn't allow local console logins to the thin clients, and the entire OS is protected from modifications
22:46
<stgraber>
because softwares like firefox are a bit buggy and tend to store a lot of data in the video memory
22:47
<tylerfixer>
really? would NX help?
22:47
<stgraber>
as you don't have enough physical video memory, it goes in RAM, takes all the RAM until X is OOM killed ...
22:47
<tylerfixer>
instead of using regular X forwarding
22:47
<stgraber>
NX may slightly help as a good part of the X events will be filtered by the nxproxy
22:47
though NX does SSH encryption so CPU will be an issue
22:48
<tylerfixer>
I believe you can disable SSH encryption in NX
22:48
<stgraber>
maybe playing with the encryption settings and compression settings may give you better performances
22:48
<tylerfixer>
I had tried turning on LDM_DIRECTX, but it didn't seem to help
22:48
<stgraber>
yeah you can if you aren't using load-balanced NX
22:48
<tylerfixer>
the only other thing i can think of is that there's a problem with the cpu frequency scaling
22:48
since EVERYTHING seems slow
22:49
even in the terminal console
22:49
<stgraber>
well, turning on LDM_DIRECTX on a geode only moves the issue from the CPU to the video card ;)
22:49
<tylerfixer>
yes, that is true, but in theory it should be accelerated
22:49
of course, that goes back to what you had said about the drivers being cruddy
22:50
<stgraber>
I guess currently the only Geode I had relatively good results with for LTSP is the LX ones
22:50
<sbalneav>
LTSP, as with most distros these days, suffers from "Moved On" syndrome.
22:50
<tylerfixer>
unfortunately...
22:51
maybe rolling back the chroot to something like 7.04 would help?
22:51
<sbalneav>
As people desire more and more bling on the high end hardware, X, the Kernel, etc all get bigger.
22:51
<tylerfixer>
although i bet that'd cause a lot more problems
22:51
<sbalneav>
And older hardware drops off the back end.
22:51
We write OUR stuff to be small, but if X stops supporting Geode... well...
22:51
<tylerfixer>
then we're toast
22:52
<stgraber>
sbalneav: well, actually most of the boot optimization work going on at the moment tends to help with old hardware
22:52
sbalneav: though expecting to have a GX1/GX2 be able to do large widescreen resolution and youtube is a bit over-optimistic as it never was able to do so ;)
22:52
<sbalneav>
Well, sure.
22:52
Ah, look what I found!
22:53
My little eboxthingy
22:54
<stgraber>
GX1 only has a single CPU cache (L1) and it's of 16kB ... and then I was complaining about GX2 (32kB L1) :)
22:54
<tylerfixer>
did you ever have any problems related to the cpu frequency scaling on the gx1 though?
22:54
<stgraber>
sbalneav: I have two of them on my desk at the office, they're really small but quite useless
22:54
<tylerfixer>
because the entire speed of the OS even in console mode with no X loaded just seems slower
22:55
<stgraber>
though I managed to boot jaunty on them ... after 20 minutes :)
22:55
<tylerfixer>
hahahaha
22:55
that's awesome
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22:55
<supreme__>
hi all
22:55
<tylerfixer>
hello!
22:55
<supreme__>
i got some terminals and i must to know if they works with ltsp
22:56
<sbalneav>
stgraber: booting noooooowwwwwwww......
22:56
<newbie>
supreme__: models?
22:56newbie is now known as sunru
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22:56
<sbalneav>
It's like falling into a black hole. Time just slows down :)
22:56
<stgraber>
yeah :)
22:57
<tylerfixer>
well, i guess I'm going to try installing NX in the chroot and seeing if that helps any
22:57
maybe i'll find that x forwarding was just too intense for my little thin client's brains...
22:57
<sunru>
whats the command to tell what xorg driver is running on the client?
22:58
<sbalneav>
Right, because straight X consumes 100% cpu, so X + bitmap compression will somehow work faster.
22:58
<stgraber>
sunru: you can't get it from a command ... that's a bug I'm fighting for a few months now X developers don't seem to want to provide that information
22:58
<tylerfixer>
haha, actually running just startx & xterm & doesn't use a lot of cpu, just around 1-2%
22:58
<stgraber>
sunru: easiest is to look at /var/log/Xorg.0.log on the thin client
22:58
<tylerfixer>
even opening a windowmanager doesn't take a lot more cpu
22:58
<sunru>
xdpyinfo?
22:58
oh
22:59
i assume it loaded up the nv driver?
22:59
<tylerfixer>
i think it's somehow related to LDM, since it seems to do quite a bit of magic-- and on bootup it takes 100% cpu for a good minute or so
22:59
<stgraber>
in some cases (binary driver) you can guess from glxinfo's output but other than these, you can't
22:59
<sbalneav>
tylerfixer: trust me, adding nx to the mix isn't going to make X any faster.
22:59
that's not the problem NX solves.
23:00
<tylerfixer>
i know, it's network usage that NX is aimed at
23:00
<stgraber>
sbalneav: well, in some cases it may help as it'll get rid of a lot of X events
23:00
<sunru>
i might just forget it until someone loads an app that requires glx and complains.
23:00
<sbalneav>
And replace them with compression.
23:00
<sunru>
:)
23:00
<stgraber>
sbalneav: if you go with no compression and no encryption it may help a bit
23:00
<sbalneav>
There's no such thing as a free lunch.
23:00
<stgraber>
but you'll loose 3D and XV though
23:01
<tylerfixer>
i just had a thought though-- maybe I should try x forwarding to another machine on my network, and see if that's slow too
23:01
then i'd find that the problem lies in the server, not the client... hopefully
23:01
in this case, i really don't know....
23:01
<stgraber>
sbalneav: if you have NX without compression and encryption, then you basically get X with a lot less X events as usual remote X though loose 3D and XV and funny things like xprop along the way
23:02
<tylerfixer>
be right back, going to try NX on the thin client-- i'll report back :)
23:03
<stgraber>
anyway, got to get some sleep before tomorrow's conference. see you guys
23:03
<sbalneav>
I understand that. But: You're drawing (on the server) a virtual bitmap of the display, doing deltas, and then sending them down to the thin client as bitmap deltas which must do the math to turn the delta's back into a display andpaintthemtothescreensoyourTSILLDOINGABUNCHOFEXTRAMATH whew.
23:03
<stgraber>
sbalneav: right and for some reason that doesn't work so badly with geodes ...
23:04
sbalneav: as I said, my only use of them at the moment is RDP because they aren't "that bad" for stupid bitmap displaying
23:04
<tylerfixer>
i know, i'll probably end up back with PXES, but i figure what the heck
23:04
<sbalneav>
On a 64 meg geode GX1? Ok, I await with baited breath.
23:05
Meanwhile, now that you've got me on the topic, I'm going to dig into the kernel bug I think's at the heart of our woes with the ebox.
23:05
Err, bated breath.
23:05
I'm not eating minnows.
23:05
<supreme__>
sunru http://www.lintex.cl/index.php?pagina=symbio, at the end of the site
23:06
(is in spanish but i think is understandable)
23:06
<stgraber>
sbalneav: I only have GX2 in my test lab so can't speak for GX1 though I expect it to be a lot worse (half the cache, no MMX and 3DNOW extension ... and we're speaking about the frequency yet)
23:07
<sunru>
supreme__: plug them in and boot them up?
23:07
<supreme__>
sunru, i dont have it yet in my hands
23:07
<sunru>
does the "nv" driver support glx?
23:07
<supreme__>
only SYM1110 says to be compatible with k12 and ltsp, but i dont know the others
23:07
<stgraber>
supreme__: oh, these are from symbio ?
23:08
<supreme__>
yes stgraber
23:08
<stgraber>
supreme__: wait for gadi then ;)
23:08
he works at Symbio
23:08
<sbalneav>
He *is* Symbio :)
23:08
<stgraber>
right :)
23:08
<supreme__>
haha, is the only worker there?
23:09
<sbalneav>
Is fgiralde1u part owner in Revolution Linux?
23:09
supreme__: No, he's got employees
23:09sunru has quit IRC
23:09
<stgraber>
I have a 1110 at home, it's GX2 based and so unless you want to do only RDP I wouldn't recommend it. Don't know the others, hope they're faster ;)
23:09
sbalneav: yeah
23:09
<sbalneav>
stgraber: So, when is what's his name gonna give us a sales call?
23:10
<supreme__>
gx2? is a processor?
23:10
<stgraber>
sbalneav: jean-guy ? don't know, soon I expect.
23:10
Francis doesn't do a lot of LTSP lately though .. lots of other projects
23:11
<sbalneav>
You and Francis are in on the call though, right?
23:11
<stgraber>
supreme__: yeah, that's AMD Geode GX2
23:11
sbalneav: I'll, not sure for Francis
23:11
<sbalneav>
I'm interested in the hardware.
23:11
Our current supplier is getting a bit... sporadic :)
23:12
<supreme__>
oh, i see, so that machines are not recommended, ok
23:15
<sbalneav>
supreme__: no, that was for stgraber
23:15
I'm not commenting on your machines
23:15
<stgraber>
sbalneav: I'll poke jean-guy about it tomorrow :) now time for some sleep
23:16
supreme__: as far as I know, Symbio also has some VIA-based thin clients that may be a little bit more expensive but will work a lot better than the Geode ones, you should really poke Gadi about it when he's around on IRC
23:16
<supreme__>
sbalneav, i thought that because of stgraber said "I have a 1110 at home, it's GX2 based and so unless you want to do only RDP I wouldn't recommend it. Don't know the others, hope they're faster ;)"
23:16
ok, thanks stgraber
23:21
<tylerfixer>
okay! back
23:21
observations: NX with encryption is just as slow as normal X forwarding
23:22
observation 2 : my server is configured wrong, since I can't connect with no encryption in NX
23:23
observation 3: xorg is only using 4% of cpu over encrypted NX
23:31
well, i'm off to go get nonencrypted NX to work
23:31
thanks for the brainfood!
23:31
g'nite
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23:39
<supreme__>
stgraber, do you know the gadi's email? or his name?
23:40
stgraber, if you can give me that info, by private i think it would be better.
23:48
<dberkholz>
supreme__: google for gadi ltsp, i bet it's in the top 5 results
23:48
<supreme__>
thanks
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