IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 8 March 2012   (all times are UTC)

00:01
<vagrantc>
naptastic: no thin client should have write access to that
00:01
naptastic: so none of them should see each other's files.
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00:51
<naptastic>
vagrantc, how does ltsp keep them from having write access? Is / mounted read-only? Is the file set immutable?
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01:06
<vagrantc>
pffft.
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06:10
<srdjo_>
@alkisg good morning alkisg
06:10
<alkisg>
Good morning srdjo_
06:10
<srdjo_>
just to let you know that the rc.local solution did not work
06:11
<alkisg>
That's strange, did you put cupsctl above exit 0?
06:11
<srdjo_>
yes I did
06:12
it shows on cat /etc/rc.local too
06:12
abowe exit 0
06:13
<alkisg>
I appears that cups is still not ready when rc.local is ran then... well, just wait until some developer is interested in your bug report
06:16
<srdjo_>
since I moved my production server to fat clients I need to find some workaround just for runing cupsctl even at user login - is there any way I can make script that runs as chroot root acount ?
06:17
<alkisg>
Try putting it in /opt/ltsp/i386/usr/share/ldm/rc.d/
06:17
<srdjo_>
right now users have to open system-config-printer every time they log in
06:17
wil it be run as root ?
06:17
<alkisg>
Yes scripts there run as root
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06:27
<srdjo_>
I think I found a workaround
06:27
by copying cupsd.conf to my chroot
06:27
all sharing options are enabled at logon
06:28
I think that in case of FAT client normal cupsd.conf should be used insted of thin client one
06:29
because many setting are limited, and there is no need to limit anything on FAT client
06:29
<alkisg>
srdjo_: your server cupsd.conf were modified when you used the printers dialog to enable printer sharing
06:30
There's no difference between a "thin" cupsd.conf and a "fat" cupsd.conf
06:32
<srdjo_>
No, I copied cupsd.conf from /etc/cups/ from my ubuntu installation
06:32
<alkisg>
Yes, I understood that
06:32
<srdjo_>
the limitations i mentioned is disabled web panel from client cups
06:32
root was needed to make any change
06:32
<alkisg>
When you go to the printer settings dialog in your normal installation, you modify your cupsd.conf
06:33
But of course ltsp can't use that method, it can't tell the user to use the gui and then copy stuff
06:34
<srdjo_>
i understand - you mean the dafault cups file in /etc/cups is the same as the one in chroot at installation (before any GUI changes) ?
06:35
<alkisg>
Yes
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06:59
<alkisg>
cyberorg: can we remove the functions from ltsp-init-common that were moved to init-ltsp.d? Does OpenSUSE still use them from ltsp-init-common?
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07:06
<cyberorg>
alkisg, hi, we don't need them anymore
07:07
<alkisg>
Nice, ok so I only see references of them in RPM/, I'll delete them and if they want then can install local copies of them
07:07
<cyberorg>
everything in common/ can be removed from ltsp-init-common
07:07
<alkisg>
Cool, I'll delete a few hundend lines then :D
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08:09
<alkisg>
highvoltage: hi, is there an invisible box around the ubuntu logo and the username/password in ldm?
08:09
Sometimes after entering the password, the whole box seems to move to the left
08:09
So I can see a bit of the splash stripe twice, it's ugly
08:14
<srdjo>
@alkisg when I put the script in the /opt/ltsp/i386/usr/share/ldm/rc.d/ is it auto executed or do I have to register it ?
08:15
<alkisg>
It's autoexecuted
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09:24
<markit>
hi, forgive my ignorance, but so far I've only installed a "thin client" solution, now I've my first "fat" one and some problems show up... the first one is that clients don't see the printer of the server (of course). If I will flag it on the server as "shared", will I have to config it for each user?
09:24
(I've not the ltsp server here for experiment myself, and I've to go to school tomorrow to fix it)
09:27
<alkisg>
markit: no, just checking [x] publich local printers on the server is enough
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09:28
<markit>
alkisg: too good :) thanks (I've seen new epoptes released... I've to try it, I'm so much far behind your releases, sigh)
09:28
<alkisg>
I've yet to see any problems at all with the new epoptes version
09:29
<markit>
alkisg: btw, you urged to fix some stability problems last time I asked you about the feature that let's the teacher "deploy" a file to student's home
09:29
will it be implemented soon or is a feature not seen as needed?
09:29
<alkisg>
Ermmm I think you misunderstood what I said there
09:29
I said that the networking backend is not good enough for file transfers
09:30
It's single-channel only, used for commands and screenshots etc
09:30
So if you use that channel to transfer files, epoptes won't be able to issue commands or get screenshot thumbnails etc
09:30
<markit>
temporary during file transfer?
09:30
<alkisg>
Yes
09:31
<markit>
not a issue then
09:31
<alkisg>
But that will cause timeouts and other stuff to occur
09:31
<markit>
ah
09:31
<alkisg>
So it is an issue if the files are large
09:31
<markit>
probably text files or small pictures
09:31
<alkisg>
E.g. one might try to transfer 1 gb with that menu
09:31
<markit>
let's check file size and prevent it :)
09:31
<alkisg>
Now, in order to allow for parallel network transfers, the client would need to be rewritten in C
09:32
That' s indeed in our todo list, but not in a short todo list
09:32
<markit>
alkisg: let's go back in time... long time ago
09:32
<alkisg>
So I wouldn 't expect that feature to arrive before 14.04
09:32
<markit>
I told you that I've implemented a dir structure, with ACL, and teacher s hould put files want students to "read"
09:32
in a dir /srv/public/readonly (for instance)
09:32
<alkisg>
Yup
09:32
<markit>
you told me that with sch-script you took a different aproach
09:33
and you put file in student's home directly
09:33
I thought my aproach was much better
09:33
and as usual, I've to admit your was better then mine
09:33
at least with young pupils
09:33
(6-8 years)
09:33
but when I asked about having it in epoptes you raised that technical problems
09:34
<alkisg>
sch-scripts doesn't have a shared folders or send files implementation yet
09:34
It does have some code and ideas, but nothing published in the menus
09:34
<markit>
oh, so I misunderstood
09:34
<alkisg>
Also, sch-scripts assumes that ltsp is used
09:34
epoptes doesn't make that assumption, as it wants to work without ltsp too
09:34
So, what we currently do is to have a readonly shared folder in /home/teacher/Public,
09:35
and create symlinks for that in the pupil's desktop dirs
09:35
We've been doing that for years, it works for 90% of the cases
09:35
But indeed there are cases where sending files would be better
09:35
<markit>
ok, very good tip, if I only were able to do in kde...
09:35
<alkisg>
Sure, it should be very easy
09:35
Now, remember that you can issue a command with epoptes to the clients:
09:36
<markit>
I mean, I create the student's account, but KDE structure in home is not created until you login for the first time
09:36
<alkisg>
cp /home/teacher/file ~
09:36
So with that you can copy a file to many students at once
09:36
Of course it's not easy for teachers to enter that command
09:37
But once epoptes supports bookmarks, you can have some fixed locations where the teacher can put stuff, and a bookmark to transfer them
09:37
<markit>
Dophin has the "resource" panel, where you have i.e. Home, Root, etc very handy
09:37
I would love to have it include /serv/public
09:37
but is something I'm able to do "manually"
09:38
<alkisg>
Why not symlink the pupil's "$HOME/Public" dir to /srv/public ?
09:38
<markit>
maybe I've to hack the "kde account template" used during home kde config creation
09:38
good idea!
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10:24
<alkisg>
Could someone NOT using Debian/Ubuntu tell me if he has /usr/share/xsessions/*.desktop files in his desktop PC?
10:25
<ball>
I don't but then I'm not on Linux so that's probably not helpful.
10:25
<alkisg>
Hehe, I meant for OSes where the ltsp-server package can be installed :)
10:26
<ball>
Pretty sure that's not an option on BSD
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10:27
<ball>
Thinking of building an LTSP server around Xubuntu though, for a small office.
10:28
<alkisg>
That should be painless
10:28
<ball>
I need to take some of the network adaptors out of the server first though and probably put some more disk drives in there.
10:28
...and drive it down to the site.
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10:44
<Hyperbyte>
alkisg, Fedora 16 - /usr/share/xsessions/gnome.desktop
10:45
<Briareos1>
Hyperbyte: hey Hyperbyte, you remember the issue regarding screen resolutions, we talked abt the other day?
10:45
<alkisg>
Thank you Hyperbyte, so it's reasonable to say that images that have desktop files in there do support local (fat) logins
10:45
<Hyperbyte>
Briareos1, vaguely.
10:46
<Briareos1>
Hyperbyte: <Hyperbyte> Briareos1, alright. My guess is that the videocard also has a TV output. --- <Hyperbyte> Since a TV output does not detect resolution, it only detects some default non-widescreen resolutions.
10:46
<Hyperbyte>
Briareos1, http://irclogs.ltsp.org/
10:46
Please just ask your question. :-)
10:47
IIRC, I asked you for some xrandr output and never got it.
10:48
<Briareos1>
Hyperbyte: that's why i am here today :) http://pastebin.com/yJCTRiuM
10:50
the monitor's recommended res would be 1920 x 1080 ...
10:50
<Hyperbyte>
Looks like it's just one output, with one screen. It's not detecting resolution correctly.
10:50
Just a hunch
10:50
Is the screen attached with a DVI->VGA adapter?
10:51
<Briareos1>
Hyperbyte: possible - need to check
10:51
<Hyperbyte>
If so, that's your problem.
10:51
DVI->VGA adapters are evil.
10:51
<alkisg>
Is the opposite possible? VGA card -> DVI monitor?
10:52
<Briareos1>
does it make a difference on which side DVI and VGA are?
10:52
<Hyperbyte>
alkisg, no, it's not.
10:52
<alkisg>
Darn :)
10:52
<ball>
alkisg: Yes, sort of
10:52
<Hyperbyte>
DVI has extra pins to allow analog input as well as digital. VGA only allows analog.
10:52
<ball>
Hyperbyte: Not all DVI has those
10:52
There's DVI-D (digital only)
10:52
DVI-I (digital and analogue)
10:52
and DVI-A (mostly theoretical, just analogue)
10:53
So you can go from a VGA port to a DVI-I input on a monitor, but it doesn't make much sense
10:53
<Hyperbyte>
ball, yes - and you can use a signal converter to go from VGA card to DVI monitor, but this isn't really what alkisg wants to know I think. ;-)
10:53
<ball>
...unless you find a monitor that somehow lacks VGA in)
10:53
Hyperbyte: I'm talking just cables.
10:53
No convertors required.
10:53
<alkisg>
Yeah Hyperbyte's right, I was just trying to connect my (VGA) laptop to my (DVI) LG monitor
10:54
And I had a DVI->VGA connector, and was wondering if it would make sense to remove the extra pins :D
10:54
<ball>
alkisg: Does the LG monitor have a VGA input?
10:54
<alkisg>
It does, but I'm connecting another device there
10:54
<Briareos1>
alkisg: i'd suppose it will work as long as you have DVI-I ... and the monitor supports vga
10:54
<ball>
alkisg: Is the input a DVI-I?
10:54
<alkisg>
How would I know?
10:54
<ball>
(does it have four holes around the cross-shaped slot?)
10:55
alkisg: Don't remove any pins)
10:55
<alkisg>
http://www.cnet.com.au/shared/images/products/dvi_input_200x150.gif
10:55
<ball>
I can't view that.
10:55
<alkisg>
That's my LG DVI input
10:55
<ball>
Just tell me.
10:55
<Hyperbyte>
It's DVI-D.
10:55
<alkisg>
Ah sorry, no, it doesn't have holes around it
10:55
<Hyperbyte>
Which brings me back to my original answer: it's not possible.
10:56
<ball>
Hyperbyte: Yeah, you can't connect VGA to that then.
10:56
<Hyperbyte>
Cue applause!
10:56
<alkisg>
Thank you all :D
10:56
<ball>
Hyperbyte: Right, but you could easily have been wrong.
10:56* Hyperbyte takes a bow
10:56
<ball>
Hyperbyte: Because you were ambiguous
10:56* alkisg applauses everyone involved :D
10:56* ball prepares the trout.
10:56* Hyperbyte rolls ball away
10:56
<ball>
In fairness, you weren't ambiguous, just perhaps missing some information.
10:57
<alkisg>
So Hyperbyte if I had this one, it would be possible? http://www.plus-america.com/images/pdetail/pd_dvi_detail.gif
10:57
<Hyperbyte>
alkisg, doesn't the screen have a HDMI input as well?
10:57
<alkisg>
It does, but I only have VGA outputs
10:57
<Briareos1>
Hyperbyte: is the same problem present if both sides are VGA?
10:57
<alkisg>
I want to connect a thin client and my laptop to the same monitor, and both only have VGA outputs
10:58
<Briareos1>
i mean in regards to the recognition of available resolutions
10:58
<Hyperbyte>
Briareos1, VGA/DVI adapters confuse Ubuntu.
10:58
VGA to VGA should work fine, as would DVI to DVI.
10:58
<ball>
alkisg: KVM switch?
10:58
<Hyperbyte>
Wouldn't hurt to exchange the VGA cable for a DVI one and see if that fixes the problem though.
10:59
<Briareos1>
sure
10:59
<Hyperbyte>
Else manually add the resolution with xrandr, see if you can get it going that way
10:59
Have a look here: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1033066
10:59
<alkisg>
ball, sure, but I think that's more expensive than my thin client :P
10:59
<ball>
alkisg: Shouldn't be, especially not for a 2-way
11:00
<alkisg>
Briareos1: you can override EDID detection by putting X_HORZSYNC and X_VERTREFRESH in lts.conf
11:00
ball: cheapest one I can find around me is at 22€... not worth the trouble, I only rarely want to test performance with my ancient 128mb ram thin client
11:01
bb in 20'
11:01* ball ponders
11:01
<Hyperbyte>
:P
11:01
<ball>
I may have to have a go at installing Xubuntu tomorrow, with LTSP
11:02
I need to start rolling out some more modern stuff than we're currently using.
11:02
<Hyperbyte>
Really?
11:02
What are you using now?
11:03
<ball>
NetBSD on the file server, MS Windows XP on the desktops
11:03
<Briareos1>
alkisg: why would i need to override EDID ? doesn't manually setting the modes suffice?
11:03
<ball>
(besides a Vista machine and a Windows 7 box)
11:03
<Hyperbyte>
ball, oh, I thought you meant hardware-wise.
11:04
<ball>
Hyperbyte: That too.
11:04
Server has two cores, 2G RAM
11:04
<Hyperbyte>
Briareos1, manually setting the modes = override EDID.
11:04
<ball>
Workstations mostly single-core with 1G
11:04
<Hyperbyte>
ball, thinking of thin or fat clients?
11:05
<Briareos1>
ah ok - so testing via the xrandr and if it works, putting it into lts.conf - I guess that's what you and alkisg meant ?
11:05
<ball>
Hyperbyte: I'd like to go thin, but may end up going with fat clients just to reduce the load. Even our "new" server only has two dual-core processors
11:05
<Hyperbyte>
Briareos1, yes sir.
11:05
<Briareos1>
ty :)
11:05
<ball>
I don't think I'll upgrade it to two quad-core
11:06
<Hyperbyte>
ball, how many clients?
11:06
<ball>
Hyperbyte: Probably start with four, upgrade to more later.
11:06
<Hyperbyte>
ball, how many is 'more'?
11:06
What's the maximum amount of clients you want on your server at one time?
11:12
<ball>
Hyperbyte: That'll depend on the server, but probably 8 until we get something more powerful
11:12
I'll need more RAM too
11:13
<Hyperbyte>
2 GB RAM should be okay for four clients, maybe even 8 if you're using XFCE and not too many applications
11:13
<ball>
the "new" server has 3G RAM
11:13
I may have more for it ...somewhere.
11:14
<Hyperbyte>
I don't know if you build your own servers, but an 8-core AMD FX isn't so expensive, nor is 16 GB ram.
11:14
<ball>
We bought the dual-core (tower) server new. The quad-core (rack mount) was donated.
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11:16
<Hyperbyte>
Well, most important thing is gonna be RAM.
11:16
<ball>
I'd love to move to something with a couple of Xeon E3-1220s, but we have no budget for that.
11:17
<Hyperbyte>
Quad-core processor should suffice easily, but 2GB RAM can be low for 8 clients if everyone opens mail, browser, etc.
11:17
<ball>
I'll probably recycle the old desktops as diskless workstations and eventually replace them with dedicated terminals.
11:17
...as they fail.
11:17
<Hyperbyte>
You could remedy this by running several memory hogs (like a web browser) as a local application on the client, rather than on the server.
11:17
<ball>
...or as we can afford them.
11:18
<Hyperbyte>
If you put web browser and mail program on the local client, rather than on the server, you'll save a lot of RAM.
11:18
Because then the 1GB's in the clients get used for that.
11:19
Either that, or go fat-clients completely, and don't use CPU/RAM of the server.
11:20
<ball>
Does that introduce a lot of complexity in terms of mapping file space on the server to a local mountpoint on the diskless workstations
11:20
?
11:22
<Hyperbyte>
No, LTSP mounts /home/<user>/ from the server as /home/<user>/ on the client.
11:22
localapps is something LTSP supports out-of-the-box
11:22
!localapps
11:22
<ltsp>
Hyperbyte: localapps: to access a tutorial on setting up localapps on jaunty, see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/LTSPLocalAppsJaunty
11:22
<Hyperbyte>
Oh, that's old... from before it was out-of-the-box supported
11:23
<ball>
Hmm...
11:23
<Hyperbyte>
!install-localapps
11:23
<ltsp>
Hyperbyte: I do not know about 'install-localapps', but I do know about these similar topics: 'install-localapp'
11:23
<Hyperbyte>
!install-localapp
11:23
<ltsp>
Hyperbyte: install-localapp: To install an application locally on the client, in the chroot environment, use this guide: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/GuiInstallLocalApp For non-graphical installations, you can skip steps 1 and 2.
11:23
<Hyperbyte>
That's the correct one. That's what you have to do to set an application up to run locally on the client, rather than on the server.
11:23
<ball>
I guess we'll have to endure these workstations until we can afford something more powerful
11:24
I should probably write some grant applications.
11:25
<Hyperbyte>
ball, LTSP will work fine with your current hardware. You just have to watch memory usage on the server, if you want to use thin clients.
11:33
<ball>
I'll wipe the server in morning then and try Xubuntu on it.
11:33
I need to see if printing has improved since last time we tried it.
11:34
...or see whether we can find new drivers for the printer.
11:35
I really do want to get us moving in this direction.
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11:37
<Hyperbyte>
It's very rewarding once you are there. :P
11:39
<ball>
Hyperbyte: We're a non-profit and I'm painfully aware that the money we should be spending on new hardware goes on managing our aging desktops
11:39
...and softwaree licenses to some extent.
11:40
Come to think of it, that database probably costs us thousands.
11:40
I hate that thing.
11:42
Haven't found an affordable alternative though.
11:42
(or a portable one)
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11:52
<ball>
Oh well, it's almost 06:00
11:52
I should go.
11:53
Hyperbyte: Thanks for all your help.
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12:00
<srdjo>
@alkisg I came to idea to make a separate cupsd.conf file for each client having local printers (since all settings are lost on shutdown and printer is reinstalled on every boot). Can you tell me where can I call a script to symlink clients cupsd.conf to for example /home/cups/client1/cupsd.conf and when shoudl it run ?
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12:19
<srdjo>
copying the cupsd.conf to chroot made the sharing problem go away, but I have a printer that needs to be set to print at A4 paper size or it wont print, and the changes are lost on reboot
12:21
is it possible to create a separate chroots for these two clients and hardcode the settings in cupsd.conf ? Can it be done ?
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12:48
<zsceglow>
Hi, Im Karol from Poland
12:50
<alkisg>
zsceglow: Hi Karol
12:50
Karol, the quickest way to troubleshoot the epoptes problem would be to share a vnc screen with me, using the epoptes help menu
12:51
Karol, if you want to, go to Help > Remote support, and put my ip there: alkisg.dyndns.org
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12:52
<zsceglow>
ok
12:52
moment
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13:28
<alkisg>
zsceglow: I pressed Alt+F4 by mistake
13:28
And I closed my VNC window
13:28
zsceglow: can you go to Epoptes > Help > Remote support again?
13:28
alkisg.dyndns.org
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13:35
<highvoltage>
alkisg: yes, there's an invisible box around the login section in ldm. it's actually a window in wickedwm with the window decorations hidden
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13:36
<alkisg>
zsceglow_: hi again, I lost the vnc connection
13:36
Can you vnc to alkisg.dyndns.org again?
13:36
<zsceglow_>
my Xs froze
13:36
<alkisg>
Ouch
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13:43
<wim_>
i have gnome-session (3.2.1-1 - debian wheezy) running on FAT CLIENTS but there is no lock screen button. How can I activate them?
13:44
<highvoltage>
wim_: what happens when you press ctrl+alt+L?
13:45
<alkisg>
zsceglow_: so the problem is that you specified an invalid dns server
13:45
zsceglow_: i.e. your ltsp server, where no dns server actually listens on port :53
13:45
While this is a configuration problem, still, epoptes-client should be smart enough to not timeout there
13:46
So we'll try to fix it in the next version. In the meantime I put DNS_SERVER=127.0.0.1 to avoid the invalid dns
13:46
So it now works for you, if you reboot the clients...
13:47
<zsceglow_>
I've rebooted two clients
13:48
<wim_>
highvoltage: nothing, also no lock screen is displayed in the right upper corner menu.
13:49
<zsceglow_>
One client has shutdown
13:49
<alkisg>
wim_: how did you create a fat chroot on debian? which ltsp version do you have?
13:49
<zsceglow_>
as I wanted it to
13:51
<alkisg>
zsceglow_: you're welcome, thank you too for your patience
13:51
You may want to fix you dns issue though
13:51
<zsceglow_>
How should I do that?
13:52
<alkisg>
Lets see where do you have that declared...
13:52
<wim_>
alkisg: whith "ltsp-build-client --dist wheezy --chroot wheezy", ltsp-server-standalone ersion is 5.3.1-1. In lts.conf LTSP_FATCLIENT=True to boot the client as a FAT CLIENT
13:53
<Hyperbyte>
Guys. I have an announcement.
13:53
<highvoltage>
Hyperbyte: you're going to be a dad?
13:54
<Hyperbyte>
Today is my birthday! And since I love you all so much, digital e-cake for everyone!
13:54
<highvoltage>
Hyperbyte: happy birthday! :)
13:54
<Hyperbyte>
:):):)
13:54
<muppis>
Hyperbyte, happy birthday. :)
13:54
<Hyperbyte>
Thanks thanks. :D
13:57
<alkisg>
Happy birthday Hyperbyte :)
13:57
<Hyperbyte>
I really wish I could bring a real cake in here. :\
13:57
<alkisg>
zsceglow_: so the problem was that line in your /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf
13:57
<Hyperbyte>
Thanks Alkis!
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14:08
<alkisg>
(03:35:38 μμ) highvoltage: alkisg: yes, there's an invisible box around the login section in ldm. => I wonder why it's moving around when I press enter though...
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14:09
<alkisg>
(03:43:10 μμ) wim_: i have gnome-session (3.2.1-1 - debian wheezy) running on FAT CLIENTS but there is no lock screen button. => lock screen is probably disabled by policykit because the users don't have a password
14:09
Their passwords are not transferred from the server, so if the screen was locked, they couldn't unlock it
14:09
It was this way previously in Ubuntu too, but it broke in 12.04 and now we have to disable it by a script... I don't know why it broke on policykit/ubuntu
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14:13
<highvoltage>
alkisg: I'll try it out. I know there were some WM functionality left in wickedwm that we didn't want before. like, at one point you could even change desktops in LDM :)
14:15
<LuizAngioletti>
!questions
14:15
<ltsp>
LuizAngioletti: I do not know about 'questions', but I do know about these similar topics: 'question'
14:15
<LuizAngioletti>
!question
14:15
<ltsp>
LuizAngioletti: question: if you have a question about ltsp, please go ahead and ask it, and people will respond if they can. please also mention the linux distro and release you're using. :)
14:17
<highvoltage>
hmm, lubuntu has dark logos with dark backgrounds
14:18
I guess I could give them a simple theme for now like we do with Edubuntu
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14:21
<LuizAngioletti>
highvoltage: I'm sorry... You work for Canonical?
14:21
Or those templates are for the LTSP project itself?
14:22
<highvoltage>
LuizAngioletti: nope
14:23
LuizAngioletti: (well, nope as in, I don't work for Canonical)
14:23
LuizAngioletti: these themes go into Ubuntu
14:23
(for use with LTSP)
14:23
<LuizAngioletti>
So it is for the ltsp project itself
14:24
which they port somehow to their distribution...
14:24
<highvoltage>
well, it doesn't get included in LTSP upstream, it only gets included in Ubuntu
14:24
<LuizAngioletti>
*or **for** their distribution
14:24
Mind if I ask how that works?
14:25
Not the technicality, but the relationship
14:25
<wim_>
_alkisg: uses are authenticated over LDAP, so if I understand it correct, no lock screen possible for the moment
14:25
<highvoltage>
LuizAngioletti: ask away. I'm not sure which areas you'd like to know more about
14:26
<wim_>
_alkisg: or is there another way ...
14:26
<LuizAngioletti>
My curiosity revolves around why would you be building a template for Ubuntu when you don't work for them specifically, and I'm assuming you work for the LTSP project itself.
14:26
<highvoltage>
LuizAngioletti: in basic terms, LTSP and Ubuntu are two seperate projects, LTSP gets packaged for Ubuntu, and some derivatives of Ubuntu want their own themes. since those themes aren't useful to have in ltsp upstream, we just package it in ubuntu directly
14:27
<ogra_>
LuizAngioletti, why does that have to be distinct ?
14:27
<highvoltage>
LuizAngioletti: I'm involved in ubuntu and ltsp, and so are a few other people in this channel
14:27
<ogra_>
everyone uses LTSP in some distro
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14:27
<ogra_>
so you usually even if you are working upstream on LTSP will also work on some distro you use it in
14:27
<LuizAngioletti>
It's just I found it odd.
14:27
<alkisg>
wim_: yes, without changing the ltsp sources you can't get screen locking working on fat clients
14:27
<LuizAngioletti>
=P
14:28
<highvoltage>
LuizAngioletti: nothing odd about it if you think about it :)
14:28
<LuizAngioletti>
But you're right.. strange strangeness of me. =P
14:28
<ogra_>
alkisg, shouldnt xscreensaver work ?
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14:28
<alkisg>
wim_: you could run a locker with remoteapps though
14:28
<ogra_>
(its butt ugly but at least doesnt use dbus or consolekit)
14:28
<wim_>
alkisg: txs, do you know if it is planned to get it working, because it can be a security issue
14:29
<alkisg>
ogra_: the localapps/fat username is copied in /etc/passwd, but its password is not stored in /etc/shadow, so the local users don't have a password
14:29
<ogra_>
alkisg, well, xscreensaver sdhould use pam
14:29
so if thats pointing to ldap that should work
14:29
<alkisg>
ogra_: local pam still doesn't know about the fat user password
14:29
<ogra_>
ah
14:29
<alkisg>
ldap is configured on the server
14:30
<wim_>
alkisg: sorry that's not clear to me what you mean
14:30
<alkisg>
wim_: the reason it's not working is because putting the password hash to /etc/passwd would be a security issue
14:30
So it was actually disabled for security reasons
14:30
<wim_>
ldap is configured on the server
14:30
<alkisg>
Personally I see it from your view
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14:30
<alkisg>
So I do want the password hash copied locally on the fat clients
14:30
I want to implement that in the future in ldm
14:30
The other devs said it'd be ok as long as it's optional, and NOT default
14:31
<wim_>
alkisg: cool
14:31
<alkisg>
So we would put something like "STORE_PASSWD_HASHES=True" in lts.conf, and have working passwords
14:31
In the future another mechanism will be used (libpam_ssh) which won't have the problem at all
14:32
<ogra_>
++
14:32
<highvoltage>
alkisg: I added a white radial gradient from the middle of the lubuntu wallpaper outward, it made it light enough so that it actually works.
14:32
<ogra_>
go scottie !
14:32
<alkisg>
++ :) but I'm afraid he won't "go" until the next BTS :D
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14:32
<alkisg>
highvoltage: screenshot?
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14:33
<highvoltage>
alkisg: alkisg I just tried it in gimp, building the package to try in ltsp now...
14:33
<ogra_>
well, getting it implemented in piecemeal is still better than not getting it at all :)
14:33
<wim_>
alkisg: any idea when this could be implementd, so i can keep our security boys happy
14:33* alkisg puts money aside for the extra lobsters that will be needed for libpam_ssh... :D
14:34
<wim_>
i will tell them
14:34
<alkisg>
wim_: maybe for 12.10 or 13.04
14:34
<wim_>
txs for the help
14:34
<alkisg>
np
14:37
<srdjo_>
When I want a new chroot, can I copy existing chroot or do I have to build a new one ?
14:38
<alkisg>
wim_: actually I just had an idea, we may be able to override most common apps that require a password with remoteapps, from a step called init-ltsp.d
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14:38
<alkisg>
If I get time to look into it, it might be available for 12.04 too
14:39
<wim_>
alkisg: that would be great
14:39
<alkisg>
srdjo_: you don't need a second chroot, just use a startup script that checks the client mac and copies the appropriate file
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14:58
<LuizAngioletti>
I have an IRC related question: how is this main window calledw
14:58
?
14:59
anyone?
14:59
=P
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15:01
<LuizAngioletti>
ok
15:01
see you later. =)
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15:07
<muppis>
!win32-loader
15:07
<ltsp>
muppis: win32-loader: win32-loader.exe can be used to add a "PXE - Network boot" option to the Windows boot manager. It's developed for Debian and it uses gPXE/iPXE for the network booting. You can download a binary from http://ts.sch.gr/docs/kanonismoi-diadikasies/doc_download/327-ltsp-loader - (if someone can write a wiki page about it it'd be nice :))
15:18
<markit>
btw, I've some PC that has Windows on it, is it possible to install a sort of GRUB with XP as first boot option, and iPXE as second?
15:19
I want those pc boot with XP by default and have 20 sec timeout
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15:44
<muppis>
markit, that win32-loader does it.
15:44
Though it uses ntldr at first and grub to load iPXE.
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16:38
<markit>
muppis: thanks a lot!
16:39
muppis: how is that you wrote the answer before I asked my question? :)
16:39
<muppis>
markit, do you mean !win32-loader part?
16:40
<markit>
yep
16:40
<muppis>
I needed it by myself at that time. :)
16:40
<markit>
"we call it, syncronicity" :)
16:40
<muppis>
:)
16:41
So no problem if it helped you.
16:41
<markit>
muppis: any doc about it?
16:42
is a secure source? you know, proprietary code...
16:42
mmm greek site... maybe is a greek school project?
16:43
<muppis>
It is secure. It's just little tweaked from original debian win32-loader propably by alkisg.
16:43
<markit>
oh, reading your previous message more carefully
16:43
also the missing wiki part :)
16:43
<muppis>
:D
16:44
<markit>
so is just a matter to run it inside Wincrap and next reboot I will have a grub with ipxe option, let's test (later) in a VM
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16:44
<markit>
(so no need to resize partitions and so on? so good!)
16:45
<muppis>
Yes, but still ntldr menu, not grub. Grub is chainloaded after ntldr just to load ipxe.
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16:51
<markit>
muppis: mmm it warns that at next installation will ask to resize win partition
16:52
I thought was able to read win file system and run ipxe from it
16:52
<muppis>
markit, you choosed ipxe?
16:52
<markit>
yes
16:52
<muppis>
Then just ignore and reboot. :)
16:52
<markit>
maybe is a generic intall message and does not do it? yep :)
16:52
<muppis>
It's generic.
16:53
<markit>
I see... great! :)
16:53
wondering how to fine-tune timeout or default option, but probably google knows, thanks again
16:54
<muppis>
Files are located in /win32-loader folder in Windows root.
16:55
Folder really is an ackward naming for a directory..
16:56
<markit>
well, you have desktop...
16:56
recycle bin...
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16:57
<muppis>
I know there is a connection between those namings, but still..
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17:00
<alkisg>
markit: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/289022
17:01
<markit>
alkisg: too kind :)
17:01
<highvoltage>
alkisg: http://people.ubuntu.com/~jonathan/files/precise/ldm/ldm-lubuntu.png
17:01
<alkisg>
highvoltage: I think you should change your primary job and become a designer ;)
17:02
<highvoltage>
alkisg: :D
17:02
<alkisg>
markit: so in the end you'll end up in this windows dialog for configuring the boot timeout: http://alkisg.mysch.gr/steki/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3665.0;attach=2363;image
17:02
<highvoltage>
alkisg: I'll go ahead and upload it then
17:03
<alkisg>
highvoltage: good, I'll put it in the fat clients plugin
17:04
(and in the artwork plugin too)
17:04
<highvoltage>
alkisg: how does it do that again? does it put the LDM_THEME=lubuntu in lts.conf?
17:04
<alkisg>
No, it just autodetects the server -desktop package and selects the same variant for the ldm theme
17:04
<highvoltage>
ah
17:04
<alkisg>
lubuntu-desktop => ldm-lubuntu-theme etc
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17:31
<markit>
alkisg: is ltsp in 12.04 beta working good enough? I would jump to it for my further experiment and delivery, so I can test kde 4.8 too
17:32
hope there are some info about news and different setup, or will I have to bore you a lot?
17:32
<alkisg>
markit: yes, it's working pretty well
17:34
<markit>
ok, tonight I will install it in a VM and test... hope to find you around :)
17:34
<alkisg>
markit: if you want, you can also build an ltsp chroot with a VM instead of using ltsp-build-client ;)
17:34
(for fat chroots, that is)
17:35
<markit>
ehm, how? :) has your changes been included in 12.04?
17:35
<alkisg>
Yup
17:35
You just install your OS normally in a VM, and that's a fat chroot
17:35
You can even copy your "server" installation before installing ltsp-server, that is
17:35
<markit>
so great! where the doc?
17:36
<alkisg>
Whats that?
17:36
<markit>
(copy? dd into a raw?)
17:36
hahahaha
17:36
<alkisg>
:D
17:36
<markit>
read the source :)
17:36
<alkisg>
dd, rsync, whatever suits you
17:36
<markit>
I've never understood properly the rsync stuff, someone says is not good for perfect clone (links problem or don't remember)
17:37
but raw is not NBD compressed image
17:37
<alkisg>
rsync is fine
17:37
<markit>
I'm confused... and I've to run shortly
17:37
<alkisg>
OK, cu later
17:37
<markit>
can I beg for a wiki page about all this?
17:37
<alkisg>
Nope, not at this point, unless you're willing to write it :D
17:38* alkisg still has a lot of coding to do in time for 12.04
17:38
<markit>
oh, better you use your time for code, thanks a lot for your work
17:38
I'll test "the old way" now
17:38
bye
17:38
<alkisg>
bb
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17:59
<alkisg>
srdjo: you don't need to get the client mac
17:59
It goes like this:
17:59
In lts.conf, you set:
17:59
[mac:address]
17:59
USE_THAT_PRINTER=true
17:59
On the client, on the script, you do:
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18:00
<alkisg1>
Now that works because on each client "getltscfg -a" is ran, and it checks the client mac address, and sets the vars from the appropriate lts.conf section
18:01
<srdjo>
the script code is missing :)
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18:04
<srdjo>
@alksig1 can you repost the script part ?
18:11alkisg1 is now known as alkisg
18:11
<alkisg>
srdjo: <tab> autocompletes the user nicknames so that you get them right ;)
18:11
I didn't write a script, it was just an example structure
18:12
<srdjo>
nothing got posted :)
18:12
<alkisg>
That "if" that I wrote was part of the script you need
18:12
Ah sorry
18:12
My client didn't inform me that I got disconnected then :D
18:12
(07:59:25 μμ) alkisg: On the client, on the script, you do:
18:12
(07:59:41 μμ) alkisg: if [ -n "$USE_THAT_PRINTER" ]; then
18:12
(07:59:46 μμ) alkisg: ...do the cups thing
18:12
(07:59:47 μμ) alkisg: fi
18:13
<srdjo>
thats all I needed - a way to recognize clients
18:14
If I had this 5 hours ago (the time I googled it) I would be done by now
18:14
thanks a lot
18:14
<alkisg>
You could have asked that question here :) You're welcome
18:21
<highvoltage>
Rejected:
18:21
Signer is not permitted to upload to the component 'main'.
18:22
stgraber: can I email the updated ldm themes to you for sponsoring?
18:22
<stgraber>
highvoltage: sure, if you have all the paperwork done and approved already
18:23
<highvoltage>
stgraber: is it necessary for something that doesn't change anything by default?
18:24
<stgraber>
highvoltage: depends what's in the package ;) I heard you mention lubuntu earlier so that's why I'm asking for paperwork ;)
18:24
<highvoltage>
stgraber: it's a lubuntu theme added ot the ldm-ubuntu-themes package
18:25
<stgraber>
ok, which makes the theme different for someone installing ltsp-server on lubuntu I guess? so that at least needs a UIFe
18:26
hmm, actually I'm failing to find the code doing that, we might have dropped it from trunk ;)
18:26
so if it's just an extra binary that's not installed by anything currently in the archive, just a FFe would be good
18:27
<highvoltage>
it will select the lubuntu theme when somone builds a lubuntu fat client though
18:27
<stgraber>
does it? I grepped through ltsp-trunk and couldn't find that bit of code
18:28
if it does, then we need a UIFe as it's changing the default UI for LTSP on Lubuntu
18:28
<alkisg>
ltsp-build-client/Ubuntu/030-artwork
18:28
<highvoltage>
11:58 < alkisg> highvoltage: good, I'll put it in the fat clients plugin
18:28
<alkisg>
(to be changed slightly)
18:28
<highvoltage>
ah, I guess alkisg is about to add it then
18:29
<alkisg>
So actually that would affect thin clients too
18:29
"for cdd in ed x k" would grow a "l" there
18:31
<highvoltage>
for the next cycle I should probably update the kubuntu and xubuntu ones too (they're ancient and not that great)
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18:33
<highvoltage>
stgraber: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ldm-ubuntu-themes/+bug/950157
18:33
stgraber: what else do I need to do?
18:33
stgraber: does it need any particular tags?
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18:35
<stgraber>
highvoltage: I changed the title, ideally, get one of the Lubuntu guys to comment saying that it's not in their documentation or screenshots anywhere
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18:35
<stgraber>
highvoltage: and subscribe ubuntu-release for approval
18:35
highvoltage: you can also nag #ubuntu-release to get things approved faster
18:35
<hughessd>
hey all, ive been running 10.04 LTS and am excited about the new LTS coming out next month. Anyone here been using 12.04 already? How's it been running?
18:35
<alkisg>
It's running ok
18:36
stgraber: could you upload a new ltsp version in a ppa?
18:36
(with the files in trunk, for easier testing..)
18:41
<stgraber>
alkisg: yep, will do that later today, currently trying to fix ubiquity exploding because of gtk...
18:47
<alkisg>
Ouch
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19:17
<alkisg>
Meh -f (force) is needed in openvt, as plymouth is using vt7
19:18
Will commit in a few hours
19:18
<muppis>
I think founded little glitch from ldm...
19:19
Pressing alt+7 gives a local root prompt
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19:22
<epoptes_user9>
hey
19:22
i like to use epoptes in a XDMCP server
19:22
can anyone help me?
19:22
<highvoltage>
omg an epoptes user
19:22
they've found us
19:22
<epoptes_user9>
highvoltage :)
19:23
<highvoltage>
epoptes_user9: you're in luch, the author of epoptes hangs out here and if you stick around a bit, then he could probably give you an answer
19:23
<epoptes_user9>
highvoltage: thanks ;) i'll back later
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19:28
<srdjo>
what option can i use in ltsp.conf to mount real home directory ? (LOCAL_REAL_HOME is not working since I am not using LOCAL_APPS - FAT client) ?
19:28* vagrantc knows that epoptes documentation points to #ltsp as an irc channel
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19:38
<muppis>
Can this be a security issue or just a regular bug?
19:40
<vagrantc>
muppis: what distro?
19:40
muppis: what lts.conf settings?
19:40
muppis: what version of ldm ?
19:42
<muppis>
Ubuntu 11.10, ldm 2.2.4, lts.conf got ldm_directx=true and screen_07=ldm
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19:42
<vagrantc>
odd.
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19:43* vagrantc looks into reproducing on debiian
19:43
<muppis>
alt+7 give root prompt, alt+1 gives login
19:43
<vagrantc>
and ldm is running?
19:43
<muppis>
Sure.
19:44* vagrantc wonders which tty ldm is running on
19:44
<muppis>
It's happens inside ldm
19:44
<vagrantc>
it's a default install?
19:44
<muppis>
Afaik
19:45
Of course it's default because I generated it today. :)
19:45
Happens even without lts.conf
19:46
It's a 32 bit client. I test with 64 bit, if it boots to ltsp.
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19:51
<blake>
IRC newbie, forgive any breech in protocol in advance.
19:51
<vagrantc>
ask away, let us know what distro and release you're talking about :)
19:52
people will respond when they get the chance, so patience can be a good thing
19:52
<blake>
Having trouble with reconfiguring thin-client menus (ubuntu 10.04LTS)
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19:53
<blake>
Want to remove items without uninstalling software=manually edit thin-client application menus?
19:53
<vagrantc>
muppis: i don't have a chance to test that at the moment, but yes, that sounds like an ugly security issue!
19:53
stgraber: ^^
19:53
<muppis>
My 64 bit wont boot. tftp times out.
19:55
<stgraber>
mgariepy: ^ (blake)
19:55
<muppis>
http://m.muppis.net/20120308_215420.jpg
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20:03
<vagrantc>
muppis: alt-f7, or ctrl-alt-f7 ?
20:03
<muppis>
vagrantc, alt-7
20:03
Then press enter
20:03
<vagrantc>
muppis: a graphical root prompt, or a GUI one?
20:03
er, or a console one?
20:03
<muppis>
vagrantc, console
20:04
<vagrantc>
wwm/wwm-defaults.h:#define DEF_KEY_GOTO_VDESK_6 XK_7
20:04
wwm/wwm-defaults.h:#define DEF_KEY_GOTO_VDESK_7 XK_8
20:04
that's in ldm-trunk...
20:04
probably has to do with using scotty's evilwm
20:04
<muppis>
vagrantc, like this: http://m.muppis.net/20120308_214724.jpg
20:05
Actually happens with alt-2 to alt-7
20:06
<vagrantc>
this probably applies to ldm 2.2.x
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20:14
<highvoltage>
wickedwm
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20:31
<vagrantc>
oh, right. wicked
20:31
eesh.
20:32
<GodFather>
stgraber, ping
20:32
<vagrantc>
this is why we should run ldm as non-root...
20:33
<GodFather>
vagrantc, Jim McQuillan and I (Ron Colcernian) want to send you an email what's your email address?
20:34
<stgraber>
GodFather: pong
20:35
<GodFather>
stgraber, Jim and I want to send an email to you what's your current email address?
20:35
<stgraber>
GodFather: stgraber@ubuntu.com
20:38
<GodFather>
thanks, I'll send you an email in a moment
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21:15
<muppis>
Where client detects is image updated?
21:16
Or tries to dtect?
21:19
<||cw>
it doesn't?
21:20
<muppis>
It does even it shouldn't.
21:20
<||cw>
not sure what you mean then
21:21
pxe client nbd connect to the image at boot, and that's it. they don't "detect" anything
21:21
<muppis>
It claims image has been updated just right after boot.
21:21
<||cw>
is this a fat client?
21:21
<muppis>
Thin
21:21
<||cw>
what image?
21:21
pastebin the message?
21:21
maybe some lines before an after for context?
21:22
<muppis>
I can frop an image.
21:22
*drop
21:23
If I cancel it, everything works fine.
21:24
http://m.muppis.net/20120308_232329.jpg
21:24
<||cw>
odd, never seen that
21:25
<muppis>
Me neither.
21:25
<||cw>
does it have a lcoal disk?
21:25
<muppis>
Yes, but contains CP.. Sorry, XP.
21:25
<||cw>
are you sure? :)
21:26
<muppis>
Sure. :)
21:33
<vagrantc>
there's a hook in LDM to check for new disk images and reboot the computer.
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21:39
<muppis>
Is it under /usr/share/ldm/rc.d?
21:39
(In Ubuntu)
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21:48
<||cw>
vagrantc: if you are pxe booting the system, that applies?
21:48
as in, no local disk?
21:51
<muppis>
Yet strange things happens. I used discovered root prompt to edit local files and then logged in. root prompt left opened and now available for logged in user.
21:54
<||cw>
well, yeah
21:54
physical access security
21:56
<vagrantc>
||cw: pxe is irrelevent to that happening with LDM.
21:56
this whole irc channel is about booting without a disk :)
21:56
<||cw>
what's it updating?
21:57
<vagrantc>
the image served over the network.
21:57
but you shouldn't get that on a fresh boot unless something is wrong.
21:57
anyways, gotta run!
21:58
<||cw>
so ldm monitors the image produced by ltsp-update-image and merges it somehow?
21:58
<vagrantc>
it doesn't merge it, it just reboots the thin client so it gets a new image.
21:59
later...
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22:04
<||cw>
but that doens't look like a reboot...
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23:19
<hughessd>
hi again, has anyone had problems with thinclients muting the sound on boot?
23:20
sound applet in the notification area flashed the bar, but then blanks out and says simply "Mute", which is greyed out, and "Sound Preferences".
23:20
....
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