IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 28 February 2013   (all times are UTC)

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00:23
<rjune>
warren, you're not missing much
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02:25
<sbalneav>
Evening all
02:34
<rjune>
hey dere scott
02:34
<sbalneav>
Hello rjune
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03:13
<jammcq>
sbalneav: Scotty !!!!!!!!!!!!!
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04:18
<alkisg>
!kvm
04:18
<ltsp>
kvm: To boot a fake thin client with kvm: kvm -ctrl-grab -net nic -net user,tftp=/var/lib/tftpboot,bootfile=/ltsp/i386/pxelinux.0
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04:46
<vnc786>
i have fat clients running on 4gb ram and amd dual core h/w but fat clients performance is little slow. fat client images size is 1.1gb "top" "iptrapf" output didnt help much any guidance what others step should i take.?
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05:21
<alkisg>
vnc786: install ubuntu locally on the clients (e.g. on an external usb disk) and test the performance there
05:21
If it's the same, report your issues at #ubuntu
05:22
If it's different, then it's ltsp related, so come again here and tell us what exactly was different
05:24
!arcfour
05:24
<ltsp>
arcfour: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RC4 is an SSH cipher which is more than 2 times faster than the default aes128-ctr. To enable it, set LDM_SSHOPTIONS="-o Ciphers=arcfour128".
05:32
<vnc786>
just to share what i did yesterday: i installed xfce4 in chroot --> on login i select xfce4 session --> after login i got everything but the only thing missing was ICONS. ICONS means like a libreoffice document was just showing name not icon all folder and files icon was not show it was just showing underlying text..but not the icon ....
05:37
<alkisg>
That's a different issue than the performance issue, right?
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05:53
<vnc786>
yes right but i thought i should try other(xfce) minimal DE which will make performance better but since it didnt worked so performance issue remains the same ..
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06:29
<alkisg>
gnome-fallback runs OK here, and also the performance is better than local installations
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06:41
<cyberorg>
alkisg, tried epoptes in opensuse-arm on my android phone, it works :)
06:42
<alkisg>
Wow! Very nice, thanks cyberorg :)
06:44
<cyberorg>
great work you've done there to make it work on arm same as on x86
06:45* alkisg puts "check opensuse-arm" in his TODO list... :)
06:46
<cyberorg>
alkisg, it is easier than you think http://lizards.opensuse.org/2013/02/20/opensuse-on-phonestablets/
06:46
just a few minute to get it going if you have root and busybox on your arm tab/phone
06:47
install socat and epoptes packages from here inside the image from here http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/home:/cyberorg:/armtest/openSUSE_12.2_ARM_standard/
06:49
add something like "10.0.0.254 server" to /etc/hosts(change the ip of the server of course, epoptes-client -c
06:52
<alkisg>
cyberorg: how does that work, exactly? one runs opensuse.sh inside a chroot, and that's then running some X emulator inside the android OS?
06:53
s/emulator/server
06:53
<cyberorg>
sh opensuse.sh start in terminal app as root in android device, puts you in opensuse chroot and starts vncserver to which you can connect from your device using android vnc or from desktop vncviewer
06:54
<alkisg>
Ah, so X is running inside a VNC server, cool
06:54
<cyberorg>
wrong channel to discuss that :) there's #opensuse-arm
06:55
<Enslaver>
ooo i made the news =)
06:55
nj warren
06:56
read your note, i am looking into the switch_root issue, the link you have in the email doesnt work tho
07:46
<warren>
Enslaver: whoa. i deleted that file today.
07:46
Enslaver: I realized the switch_root issue is a non-issue
07:46
Enslaver: it doesn't cross a filesystem mount barrier
07:46
Enslaver: when it deletes stuff
07:46
<Enslaver>
just noticed that was posted on the 5th
07:47
i dont get on FB much
07:47
hurts my eyes
08:02
<alkisg>
knipwim, Enslaver, cyberorg: does this work for you on your distros? arcfour128 is more than 2 times faster than the default aes128-ctr, so it'd be nice to default to it, by setting it in the default LDM_SSHOPTIONS:
08:02
ssh -o Ciphers=arcfour128 localhost
08:03
<Enslaver>
yeah we support arcfour
08:03
<cyberorg>
alkisg, yes
08:03
<alkisg>
So you wouldn't mind if we added code like this, in init-ltsp.d/50_ldm-sshoptions:
08:03
if [ -z "$LDM_SSHOPTIONS" ]; then
08:03
set_lts_var LDM_SSHOPTIONS "-o Ciphers=arcfour128"
08:03
fi
08:03
<Enslaver>
i've heard of X forwarding issues with it though
08:03
but that was years back
08:03
<alkisg>
Ah, let me try with a thin client then, without LDM_DIRECTX=True...
08:04
<cyberorg>
alkisg, claims like x times faster are dependent on many things so don't go by that
08:04
<Enslaver>
arcfour is fast
08:04
<alkisg>
cyberorg: I did a benchmark here and it showed 3 times faster, so I'm saying 2 because I'm conservative
08:05
<cyberorg>
ok :)
08:06
<Enslaver>
Still though, sticking a fat lady in skinny jeans is still a fat lady
08:06
<alkisg>
Sure it'll never match the NFS speed and low CPU utilization
08:07
Or the "none" Cipher speed
08:07
<Enslaver>
how does NX get the speeds?
08:07
<Hyperbyte>
Hi alkisg, cyberorg, Enslaver :)
08:07
<Enslaver>
Howdy Jan
08:07
<alkisg>
NX is very slower than X on LANs
08:07
It's good for low bandwidth links because it's minimizing roundtrips
08:07
Morning Hyperbyte
08:08
<Enslaver>
rly? on WAN's its night and day
08:08
<alkisg>
The effect of NX on LANs is similar to that of LDM_DIRECTX=False
08:08
<knipwim>
alkisg: do i need arcfour in the client/server kernel?
08:08
<alkisg>
All traffic goes through compression, encryption etc
08:09
knipwim: not in the kernel, but your ssh should have support for it
08:09
If the command above works, you should be ok...
08:09
<vmlintu>
With encryption enabled connections using nxagent to suppress roundtrips can actually speed up things
08:10
I did experiment with it years ago: http://marc.info/?l=ltsp-developer&m=122051410006258
08:10
<alkisg>
NX vs LDM_DIRECTX=False? /me doesn't really care about those for LANs, none of them are suitable for multimedia apps
08:11
LDM_DIRECTX=True is unfortunately necessary here in our education environments...
08:11
<vmlintu>
alkisg: this was with ipsec between thinclient <-> server
08:11
<knipwim>
alkisg: it's working here, so it's probably a default option for gentoo
08:11
<alkisg>
knipwim: cool, I'll file a bug report against that in launchpad/ltsp
08:11
And if noone objects, I'll commit it in some future version
08:13
<vmlintu>
I should actually try using nxagent again to see how the roundtrip suppression affects current systems.
08:16
<warren>
Enslaver: measure not just speed but also latency
08:16
vmlintu: last time I tried NX for LTSP, it improved bandwidth a lot, but latency was also made worse
08:17
<vmlintu>
warren: did you try all of nx or just nxagent?
08:17
<Enslaver>
i use nx now with ltsp
08:17
kinda gives ltsp a more VDI feel
08:17
<vmlintu>
warren: I didn't use nxclient at all, just nxagent on both ends to reduce the number of roundtrips. It didn't reduce the bandwidth at all, but reduced latency a lot
08:17
<warren>
vmlintu: nxagentt
08:17
<Enslaver>
they have a java client
08:19
<alkisg>
(10:09:30 πμ) vmlintu: With encryption enabled connections using nxagent to suppress roundtrips can actually speed up things ==> do try with LDM_DIRECTX=True and without ipsec, that does sound very interesting
08:20
<vmlintu>
alkisg: when I did my testing last time on that, LTSP didn't have LDM nor LDM_DIRECTX, so it was using XDMCP
08:20
So it was similar to LDM_DIRECTX, but the encryption was done using ipsec
08:21
<alkisg>
My "real world" test is viewing a divx full screen with a celeron @500 mhz
08:21
If that works without dropped frames, it's OK for me
08:31
(actually, with a classroom of such clients simultaneously, 12 of them)
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09:00
<Hyperbyte>
mhmmm
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14:48
<sbalneav>
Morning all
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17:13
<alkisg>
knipwim: about https://bugs.launchpad.net/ltsp/+bug/1008053, you've put "ltsp-trunk" in the Affects: list... So far we were using LTSP to track upstream bugs, any reason for the change?
17:15
(I was marking fix-released the upstream bugs, now with the 5.4.5 release...)
17:16
Also, knipwim, Enslaver, I tried the current trunk in production and it works fine, nice work with the merging
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17:31
<knipwim>
alkisg: ah sorry, i experimented a bit with add bugs to series
17:31
i'll undo it, and close
17:34
alkisg: and the merge isn't complete yet
17:35
but we better discuss the common files in the hackathon week
17:35
or when we're all here
17:35
more devs at least
17:41
<alkisg>
Cool
17:41
<ogra_>
jammcq, so with the recent ubuntu changes (no more UDS, rolling releases) i'll be pretty much capable of coming to BTS now :)
17:42
<alkisg>
No more UDS?!
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17:42
<alkisg>
Rolling releases?!
17:42
<ogra_>
only virtual
17:42
at least for the next two UDSes
17:42
<alkisg>
Starting from which release?
17:42
<ogra_>
now
17:42
first vUDS is next week
17:43
<alkisg>
Ah no sorry I meant the rolling releases
17:43
Which release will be the first "rolling" one?
17:43
<ogra_>
well, pretty much right after UDS (or now, as you like)
17:43
<alkisg>
So 13.04 will be a rolling one, having for example libreoffice updates for all of its 18 month cycle?
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17:44
<jammcq>
ogra_: fantastic!!!
17:44
<ogra_>
alkisg, 13.04 wont happen
17:45
its rolling between LTSes
17:45
<alkisg>
...so we'll see new libreoffice versions in precise?
17:45
Or that will start from 14.04 onwards?
17:45* jammcq has a meeting to attend. I'll be back a bit later
17:46
<ogra_>
alkisg, i doubt new libO will be SRUed to 12.04 ... so i guess either use the rolling one of wait for 14.04
17:46
or use a PPA for 12.04
17:46
<alkisg>
12.10 isn't a rolling one either, right?
17:46
<ogra_>
right
17:47
12.10 is released
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17:47
<alkisg>
So, 13.04 won't be published, and anyone that wants a new ubuntu version now will be able to download a "rolling" CD updated frequently?
17:47
<ogra_>
they discuss monthly snapshot images
17:47
<alkisg>
And all that rolling release will be named raring?
17:47
<ogra_>
(watch the ubuntu-devel ML)
17:48
well, since raring is the current dev release and there wont be a release until 14.04 ...
17:48
14.04 will be raring
17:48
<alkisg>
Cool
17:49
<ogra_>
nice to see someone who finds that cool :)
17:49* alkisg thinks the 6 months releases were too much of a burden and is glad with that new scheme
17:49
<ogra_>
we get a lot of pushback atm
17:49
from i.e. kubuntu
17:50
<alkisg>
...I didn't think kubuntu had enough manpower to prefer 6 month releases...
17:50* alkisg reads the ubuntu-devel thread for this...
17:50
<ogra_>
well, they talked their upstream into a 6 month schedule
17:51
to now not use it ....
17:59
<vagrantc>
this new ubuntu plan sounds supiciously like another project i know of...
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18:01
<alkisg>
Which one?
18:01
vagrantc: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ltsp-upstream/ltsp/ltsp-trunk/revision/2462 for Wheezy
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18:02* vagrantc made a vague allusion to Debian, knowing that it wasn't precisely true
18:02
<ogra_>
heh
18:02
yeah, we didnt switch to the "when its ready" model
18:03
but every upload is now autotested before the debs get published, every iso too so the infrastructure to do that is largely there and is saves massively on resources
18:04
<vagrantc>
alkisg: that looks promising!
18:04
alkisg: could you submit a bug report?
18:05
alkisg: i'll be gone most of the weekend, so it'd be good to get it on the radar.
18:05
<alkisg>
vagrantc: OK - although I'm a bit pressured time-wise because I'm leaving tomorrow for yet another ltsp workshop, so it'll be a small one :D
18:06
<vagrantc>
alkisg: just getting it in the system, linking to the relevent commit and ideally launchpad bug would be good.
18:06
<alkisg>
'k
18:06
<vagrantc>
alkisg: and priority grave, since it involves data loss.
18:06
then maybe someone will fix it while i'm on vacation :)
18:06
<alkisg>
Hehe
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18:15
<alkisg>
vagrantc: is it "Package: ltsp", i.e. the source package, or "Package: ltsp-client-core"?
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18:16
<vagrantc>
alkisg: i think ltsp-client-core, since it's actually shipped in that package.
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18:16
<alkisg>
OK
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18:25
<ltspuser_58>
hey, I'm new to LTSP. I'm having issues with getting it to boot. I'm using Ubuntu 12.04 and my dhcp server is windows server 2008r2. I have option 17 set to /opt/lstp/i386/boot option 66 set to my server and option 67 set to pxelinux.0
18:26
<alkisg>
Put it to /ltsp/i386/pxelinux.0 instead
18:26
Also, option 17 should be /opt/ltsp/i386
18:26
And, next-server should point to the ltsp server
18:29
Also check https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/LTSPWindowsDHCP and fix whatever is not written correctly there :)
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18:30
<alkisg>
vagrantc: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=701916
18:31
<vagrantc>
alkisg: thanks!
18:32
<ltspuser_58>
thanks for the help. I've tried that site. My settings match however I'm still getting file not found
18:32
<alkisg>
!ipxe | echo ltspuser_58:
18:32
<ltsp>
ltspuser_58: ipxe: iPXE is the successor to the etherboot/gPXE project, and can be used to netboot clients that don't have a NIC ROM with a PXE stack. To add it to grub, see !grub-ipxe. To add it to the Windows boot loader, see !win32-loader. To download floppy, CD or USB images, visit http://ipxe.org or install the ipxe package.
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18:32
<alkisg>
With ipxe you can press ctrl+b, then type config, and see what settings your client gets
18:36
stgraber: you might want to SRU https://bugs.launchpad.net/ltsp/+bug/1093144, it involves data loss...
18:38
<vagrantc>
Enslaver: nice to see the Redhat dirs in ltsp-trunk!
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18:39
<alkisg>
vagrantc: when are you planning on updating ltsp-debian-packaging? after wheezy is released?
18:40
<vagrantc>
alkisg: yeah, or i'll start a branch in experimental
18:40
<ltspuser_58>
alkish: it's saying it's looking for ltsp/arch/pxelinux.0 when it should be ltsp/i386/pxelinux.0 The dhcp server has the correct setting
18:40
<alkisg>
ty - just wondering, I already pushed a copy of ltsp-debian-packaging in launchpad as its imports are no longer working..
18:41
ltspuser_58: ok, try the ipxe disk I suggested above
18:41
<vagrantc>
it's probably just a change of URL or something...
18:42
<ltspuser_58>
alkisg: I am using the ipxe disk.
18:43
<alkisg>
ltspuser_58: you can use `config` to change the settings to the correct ones, and then type `boot` to see if the client loads
18:46
<ltspuser_58>
boot returns no image selected
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19:17
<Enslaver>
vagrant: Yes i'm quite ecstatic about it, lets hope it gets the response i hope for.
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19:52
<pmatulis>
vagrantc: hello. asking you 'cause i see in the changelogs that you are involved in seabios
19:54
vagrantc: so i'm using kvm and discovered that in older version of seabios (0.5.1) i can boot from 'bus=scsi' but not in a more recent version (0.6.2). normal? i don't see anything in the changelogs to that affect however
20:06
<vagrantc>
pmatulis: seems plausibly fixed upstream...
20:07
<pmatulis>
vagrantc: yeah, i see it now
20:07
0.7.1
20:07
er 1.7.1
20:07* vagrantc isn't very involved with seabios
20:08
<pmatulis>
ah ok
20:08
<vagrantc>
pmatulis: but i do recall a bug about that reported on qemu. might be best to find a more appropriate channel, though
20:09
pmatulis: there's #debian-qemu on irc.oftc.net
20:09
probably a qemu channel somewhere out there...
20:10
<pmatulis>
vagrantc: yeah, i saw your name in the changelogs and i remembered you when i used to hang out in this channel
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