IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 13 February 2012   (all times are UTC)

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07:05
<alkisg>
I'm trying to force lockscreen=false for fat clients with the new gsettings system... if anyone knows how to do mandatory settings with dconf, I'd appreciate any help...
07:29
<cyberorg>
alkisg, find /usr/share/glib-2.0/schemas/ |grep override
07:29
create your own override in there and run glib-compile-schemas /usr/share/glib-2.0/schemas/
07:29
<alkisg>
cyberorg: those are vendor overrides for default values, not mandatory settings
07:29
So the user is still able to change them
07:30
<cyberorg>
don't know about mandatory settings
07:30
<alkisg>
Thank you though :)
07:31
There's a "lockdown" paragraph in http://live.gnome.org/dconf/SystemAdministrators, but it doesn't seem to apply to precise, e.g.:
07:31
$ dconf update
07:31
fatal: Error opening directory '/etc/dconf/db': No such file or directory
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08:40
<alkisg>
Does Ubuntu 11.10 use /etc/nbd-server/config instead of inetd? If so, can someone check if the nbd-server processes only die 2 hours after the client is powered off? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nbd/+bug/696454
08:41
(also I wonder if it wouldn't be possible to only have 1 nbd-server process, it doesn't make sense for ltsp to have one for each user)
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11:56* [GuS] good morning
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13:02
<knipwim-work>
[GuS]: hey gus
13:03
<[GuS]>
knipwim-work: hey! hello
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13:05
<[GuS]>
knipwim-work: i didnt tested yet that, since i dont have right now a thin clien to test. I wil test it later creating a vm machine to boot from net.
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13:34
<knipwim-work>
[GuS]: cool, np
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13:45
<mgariepy>
good morning everyone
13:58
<[GuS]>
mgariepy: morning
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15:00
<mgariepy>
stgraber, ping
15:00
<stgraber>
mgariepy: pong
15:01
<mgariepy>
when updating my chroot ,disconnect all NBD devices on stop ?
15:01
why does it ask?
15:01
<stgraber>
?
15:02
not sure I understand the question
15:02
<mgariepy>
http://paste.ubuntu.com/840469/
15:03
i'm updating the chroot, is that message normal on precise ?
15:03
<stgraber>
well, it's a debconf critical question, so unless you've set all the magic environment variables, it's going to prompt
15:03
it's not new in Precise, it happens everytime you upgrade the nbd package
15:03
which doesn't happen too often
15:03
<mgariepy>
ok
15:03
first time i see that ;)
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15:10
<alkisg>
stgraber, mgariepy: udhcp runs in init-premount, and nbd (which calls the configure_networking function we worry about) in local-top, which comes later
15:10
So I'm thinking we should go for it and completely switch to the new system, letting nbd mount the root for us
15:11
mgariepy: if I write an NBDCLIENT wrapper which calls nbd-proxy, could you test that it works for your needs?
15:12
With that new system, we'll have udhcp + nbd + init-bottom/ltsp (which does the cow magic) in the initramfs. ltsp_nbd won't be there anymore.
15:12
...and we'll be using the nbdroot=ip:port/path syntax
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15:19
<mgariepy>
alkisg, yeah i can test no problem
15:20
i just updated my chroot and the system doesn't boot. :S
15:20
<alkisg>
mgariepy: precise?
15:20
<mgariepy>
yeah
15:20
nbd doesn't mount
15:20
<alkisg>
Oh
15:21
<mgariepy>
bzr 2025
15:21
<alkisg>
After nbd mounts, you'll need init=/usr/share/ltsp/initramfs-scripts in pxelinux.cfg/default too
15:21
But I don't think we've changed anything wrt nbd mounting...
15:21
Do you get an initramfs shell
15:21
?
15:21
<mgariepy>
yes
15:21
<alkisg>
nbd-client server-ip -N ltsp_i386
15:22
...what does that say?
15:22
<mgariepy>
wait a sec
15:24
<alkisg>
mgariepy: I forgot the device: nbd-client server-ip /dev/nbd0 -N ltsp_i386
15:25
<mgariepy>
it works
15:25
<alkisg>
mgariepy: what do you have in pxelinux.cfg/default?
15:26
<mgariepy>
now : append ro initrd=new/initrd.img init=/usr/share/ltsp/initramfs-scripts nbdname=ltsp_new verbose debug
15:26
i'll test that
15:26
<alkisg>
mgariepy: ah, also put: boot=ltsp_nbd
15:26
That's probably the problem
15:28
If we switch to using the local-top/nbd script, that won't be needed anymore
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15:32
<mgariepy>
this works : append ro initrd=new/initrd.img nbdname=ltsp_new verbose debug boot=ltsp_nbd
15:32
<alkisg>
mgariepy: ok it's on the http://pad.ubuntu.com/ltsp-server-precise notes... we'll fix it soon
15:33
<mgariepy>
yeah no problem
15:33
<alkisg>
If stgraber doesn't mind, I'll do the ltsp_nbd => local-top/nbd change until tomorrow evening, and then we'll only have bug fixing left :D
15:33
<mgariepy>
for nbd-proxy i only use it for /rofs (not for swap)
15:34
<alkisg>
I'll make a wrapper for it, using the NBDCLIENT env variable that nbd supports
15:34
<stgraber>
alkisg: ok, the sooner the better really, I have quite a bunch of stuff to get done by Thursday ;)
15:34
<alkisg>
stgraber: I'd have done those months ago, but I thought we weren't going to switch to initramfs-scripts.d for precise... I think it's good that we'll do, though :)
15:34
Gotta go, bbl, will read logs
15:35
<Hyperbyte>
Bye alkisg! :)
15:35
<mgariepy>
cya thanks for your help alexqwesa__
15:35
alkisg *
15:35
<alkisg>
bb all
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16:00
<laurei>
does anyone know the correct groups users need to be in to mount DVD's in fat clients?
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16:27
<mmetzger>
Any good guides on setting up printing for local apps clients?
16:41
<knipwim>
mmetzger: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/LocalAppsLucidPrinting ?
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16:46
<mmetzger>
knipwim: Thanks - that's mostly what I've done so far - trying to make sure the printer(s) show up automatically for the clients without changing specifically to the print server (I have a *very* weird environment)
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18:34* vagrantc wonders how ltsp-trunk is doing
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18:38
<alkisg>
vagrantc: I'm about to remove ltsp_nbd... :)
18:39
So if you want to do any testing, please wait for some hours
18:39
I'm trying to make the switch to using the upstream nbd script
18:40
<vagrantc>
remove ltsp_nbd! awesome!
18:41
alkisg: so you've got initramfs-scripts capable of running as /sbin/init ?
18:41
<alkisg>
So the new command line for nbd will look something like: append ro initrd=initrd.img nbdroot=ip:port/path init=/sbin/ltsp-init
18:41
vagrantc: yup, I really think we should rename them to ltsp-init.d
18:41
And move the /usr/share/ltsp/initramfs-scripts to /sbin/ltsp-init
18:41
<vagrantc>
should be able to specify nbdroot=dhcp
18:41
<alkisg>
Yes Wouter has that covered
18:41
<vagrantc>
ok, good.
18:42
<alkisg>
Or just nbdroot=/path
18:42
<vagrantc>
i run installs on multiple networks from the same chroot, and that's needed.
18:42
good good.
18:43
<alkisg>
vagrantc: should I change the name now from initramfs-scripts.d to ltsp-init.d, so that it shows better in the commit messages in the bzr log later on?
18:43
<vagrantc>
alkisg: you had some splash screen issues you had to work out to switch it to init ?
18:43
<alkisg>
That was a problem in plymouth, easily bypassed
18:43
I.e. it looked for init=whatever in the cmdline, and disabled itself :(
18:43
<vagrantc>
alkisg: and does it still work when called from initramfs the "old" way?
18:44
<alkisg>
If you pass any parameter to initramfs-scripts, it works the old way
18:44
The only difference is the last line, if it will exec init or not
18:44
<vagrantc>
sounds cool.
18:45
alkisg: if i stick with nfs+aufs+tmpfs will i need to wait for your pending changes?
18:46
<alkisg>
vagrantc: are you using the "ltsp" command line option to know when to run the initramfs-scripts?
18:46
I.e. are you using nfs-bottom/ltsp ?
18:46
<vagrantc>
alkisg: yes.
18:46
<alkisg>
OK we need to talk about that
18:47
One option is for you to use the init=/sbin/ltsp-init syntax too
18:47
No "ltsp" magic parameter anymore, only stock parameters
18:47
<vagrantc>
i'd like to at least give it a try ...
18:47
might also be easier to use with kfreebsd, if i ever get that insanity going
18:48
<alkisg>
Errrr sorry I meant init-bottom/ltsp, not nfs-bottom/ltsp
18:48
Another option is to support both of the methods
18:48
<vagrantc>
as of last friday, i was testing with init-bottom/ltsp using the ltsp bootprompt argument.
18:48
<alkisg>
I.e. check for either "ltsp", or "init=*ltsp*", or "init=/sbin/ltsp-init", if we're going to hardcode that
18:49
<vagrantc>
if it's not too hard to maintain compatibility for both, i kind of like supporting both.
18:49
that way if there are unexpected gotchas with either approach, we can easily switch to the other.
18:49
<alkisg>
OK, the only difference is that with init=, we don't want the chroot call
18:49
I'll commit that now, if you want to test
18:50
vagrantc: what about the name change? I basically care about the init=parameter
18:50
Will it be init=/usr/share/ltsp/initramfs-scripts, or init=/sbin/ltsp-init ?
18:50
(even if it is a symlink...)
18:51
(or init=/sbin/init-ltsp, if we want to make it easier for plymouth to know when to NOT disable itself..)
18:51
<vagrantc>
alkisg: i like init=/sbin/ltsp-init or init=/sbin/init-ltsp
18:52
keeps the commandline shorter and still reasonable clear what craziness we're implementing
18:52
<alkisg>
Cool, thanks, I'll commit the change in 10' or so
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18:53
<alkisg>
stgraber: do you think you could make plymouth not disable itself if it sees init=/sbin/init* ?
18:53
...so that we use init=/sbin/init-ltsp, instead of init=/sbin/ltsp-init, and so that we don't have to use the force parameter?
18:54
I can send a patch if it helps...
18:54
<vagrantc>
and will we be able to get that into debian...
18:54
alkisg: alternately, we could have /sbin/init be diverted and handle it with some other logic... ?
18:55
<alkisg>
vagrantc: you will? Nice, so /sbin/init-ltsp it is. (or with a dot? /sbin/init.ltsp ?)
18:55
<vagrantc>
alkisg: dunno why, i prefer the dash...
18:55
<alkisg>
Errr sure, that would work too!
18:55
<stgraber>
alkisg: you can attach the patch to the bug but I wouldn't count on it being merged by Thursday, I'm horribly busy with other things
18:55
<vagrantc>
but that seems more dangerous to divery /sbin/init ... and then we're back to passing "ltsp" as an argument.
18:56
<stgraber>
alkisg: as far as I can see, the force parameter only affects this specific bit of plymouth so it should be safe to use for now
18:56
<vagrantc>
is plymouth in debian dn ubuntu reasonnably in sync?
18:56
<alkisg>
vagrantc: yeah I don't really like that part about passing special kernel parameters
18:56
stgraber: nice
18:56
OK so no hurries about it
18:56
Let's leave the plymouth fix for later on
18:57
We'll use init=/sbin/init-ltsp, and try to push the plymouth fix whenever we can, and use the force parameter in the meantime
18:57
<vagrantc>
so plymouth disables itself when init isn't /sbin/init ?
18:57
<alkisg>
Yeah, in the changelog it says it gives problems with init=/bin/bash, that's why they disabled it
18:57
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/plymouth/+bug/930865
18:57
<vagrantc>
we could replace /sbin/init from the initramfs with /sbin/init-ltsp as an alternate approach
18:58
then we're only doing one crazy thing in the initramfs
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18:59
<vagrantc>
but again, probably would require a custom commandline argument.
19:00
<alkisg>
I like the init= approach, as it cleanly states that we want to boot ltsp
19:01
And, here's another crazy idea about it:
19:01
I install a standalone client, then install ltsp-client in it,
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19:01
<alkisg>
...which creates a grub entry (like ipxe or xen) for "ltsp booting",
19:01
...which contains the init=/sbin/init-ltsp parameter, which in turn uses a cow over the local disk
19:02
<vagrantc>
love it!
19:02
<alkisg>
A very easy way to convert local installations to ltsp fat clients on low bandwidth labs
19:02
We can even have a screen script to "upload the local image to the server"
19:02
For cases like macs
19:03
(or just use rsync, ok :P)
19:04
OK, back to coding...
19:05
<vagrantc>
whee.
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19:14
<vagrantc>
alkisg: if you kill of scripts/ltsp_nbd we'll still need hooks/ltsp_nbd (or rename to "ltsp") in order to ensure the correct modules are there
19:15
<alkisg>
vagrantc: yes, but we won't need the BOOT= line anymore
19:15
I think nbd will need to use that modules line itself though, so maybe in the future we won't need the conf.d/ltsp either
19:16
<vagrantc>
alkisg: i
19:16
<alkisg>
Wait wait
19:16
You were talking about the other file, moment...
19:16
<vagrantc>
alkisg: i'm not sure DEBIAN_FRONTEND=passthrough works on debian...
19:16
<alkisg>
It's for ubuntu only
19:16
I thought an "if" is better than having 2 separate files
19:16
<vagrantc>
shouldn't need conf.d/ltsp at all (i don't think i use it in debian)
19:17
<alkisg>
modules=netboot
19:17
Otherwise not all network modules go in the initramfs
19:17
I'll rename hooks/ltsp_nbd to just hooks/ltsp
19:17
<vagrantc>
alkisg: i should experiment with passthrough .. it seems like the right thing to do.
19:17
<alkisg>
vagrantc: that's only for the alternate cd, right?
19:18
Not for when a sysadmin runs ltsp-build-client manually...
19:18
<vagrantc>
alkisg: there's no such thing as an alternate CD in debian
19:18
<alkisg>
Yes, but the alternate cd maps to the normal debian cd, somewhat
19:18
<vagrantc>
install from an installer CD
19:18
<alkisg>
Ah, you don't have an option to install ltsp there, right?
19:18
<vagrantc>
vs. install manually
19:19
not yet ...
19:19
<alkisg>
Like, in the alternate cd, we have "f4 => install an ltsp server"
19:19
<vagrantc>
i should see if i could pull it off for wheezy ...
19:19
<alkisg>
The passthrough option is only used there
19:19
To update the progress bar etc
19:19
(in the debconf whiptail dialog)
19:19
<vagrantc>
would like to have that in debian, yes.
19:20
<alkisg>
Nice
19:20
If that "if" causes a problem for you, I can revert the commit
19:20
I just thought it'd be better to have an extra if and a smaller delta
19:22
<vagrantc>
alkisg: where does the LTSP_CLIENT_BUILDER variable get set?
19:22
<alkisg>
vagrantc: in ltsp-client-builder.postinst, that's not upstream, it's in the ubuntu packaging
19:23
<vagrantc>
alkisg: and i surely have my own fork (original) of that
19:23
<alkisg>
Hehe
19:23* alkisg never uses the alternate cd so he doesn't know any details
19:23
<vagrantc>
which i haven't touched much in years ... it needs a lot of work.
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19:26
<vagrantc>
alkisg: so should i still wait for your changes?
19:26
<alkisg>
vagrantc: just a tiny change in init-bottom/ltsp
19:26
To allow for calling with init=
19:27
But if you won't test with init=, there's no reason to wait...
19:27
vagrantc: in debian, does /run from the initramfs migrate to /root/run ?
19:27
<vagrantc>
alkisg: dunno
19:27
<alkisg>
Or, in other words, I want to copy /tmp/net-eth0.conf to the real system, where should I put that?
19:27
In case nfs==read only?
19:28
...so that when init= is used, the initramfs-scripts will get the DEVICE etc
19:28
<vagrantc>
alkisg: i can check
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19:32
<vagrantc>
alkisg: are there legitimate cases where /sbin/init would be passed arguments?
19:33
<alkisg>
vagrantc: I don't know, but I don't think the kernel syntax allows it. Would you prefer an environment variable?
19:33
NOINIT=true chroot ${rootmnt} /usr/share/ltsp/initramfs-scripts
19:34* alkisg really thinks we should rename those to init-ltsp.d scripts, even if we support calling them from the initramfs...
19:34
<vagrantc>
just want to make sure we're not potentially breaking sometnhing
19:34
<alkisg>
OK let's use an env var
19:34
<vagrantc>
alkisg: yes, i agree with the change to init-ltsp.d
19:34
<alkisg>
So wait for 2-3 commits :)
19:43
First push, now renaming...
19:44
<vagrantc>
aalso, generally if it applies to multiple distros, prepending the commit with DISTRO: is only misleading...
19:45
alkisg: the dynamic hostname generation appears to be borked, as well...
19:45
alkisg: i get ltsp0 no matter what
19:45
<alkisg>
I haven't seen that since Gadi moved it, but I suspect it's because of net*.conf variables do not exist at that point?
19:46
<vagrantc>
hadn't really looked deeply into it
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19:47
<alkisg>
vagrantc: some distros don't have initramfs... sorry I haven't done my homework about other distros, I've only tried debian+ubuntu :)
19:47
<vagrantc>
alkisg: some of the changes were not specific to the initramfs stuff
19:47
<alkisg>
And also many of the scripts I put in Ubuntu/ need to go to Debian/ too, but I haven't tested them there, so..
19:48
<vagrantc>
alkisg: regarding the /run question ... at what point in the process do you want to copy a file over?
19:49
alkisg: i tested at the "init" phase from the initramfs, and /run didn't get moved over to /root/run, but /root/run was available and writeable.
19:49* vagrantc suspects /root would technically be ${rootmnt} or some variable
19:49
<alkisg>
vagrantc: from init-bottom/ltsp
19:50
We basically only have that file now
19:50
The root mounting is done by the nfs or nbd scripts, not ours
19:51
<vagrantc>
alkisg: and you want to copy /tmp/net-* over?
19:51
<alkisg>
We'll only need an NBDCLIENT wrapper for nbd-proxy, but it'll only be used for the proxy stuff
19:51
vagrantc: yup
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19:55
<alkisg>
vagrantc: second push... can you push the net-* copy?
19:56
<vagrantc>
alkisg: i'm testing the net-* copy stuff
19:56
<alkisg>
Nice
19:57* alkisg tests if it works without ltsp_nbd...
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19:59
<vagrantc>
so, doing it from init-bottom, you can copy it into /run and it gets moved over
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20:01
<alkisg>
And it's writable even with nfs, sounds nice
20:01
<vagrantc>
i'm thinking it would be best to copy to a sub-dir of /run ?
20:01
i.e. /run/ltsp/ ?
20:01
<alkisg>
/run/cache/ltsp ?
20:01
Ah no cache in run
20:01* alkisg thought it would be the same as /var/run...
20:02
<alkisg>
Sure, /run/ltsp. Why not put ltsp_config there too?
20:02
<vagrantc>
on recent vdebian systems, /var/run is a ssymlink to /run
20:02
<alkisg>
How do we handle ltsp_config ?
20:02
(from the initramfs, when nfs is used)
20:02
<vagrantc>
might make backporting harder, though :(
20:02
the /run stuff is pretty new in debian
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20:03* alkisg thinks net*.conf should be handled the same way as ltsp_config
20:03
<alkisg>
Or we can just get the vars we want and only write those to ltsp_config
20:04
<vagrantc>
hmmm...
20:04
we've got so many moving parts, it's hard to keep track of what is where and why ...
20:05
<alkisg>
At last we'll minimize the initramfs now
20:05
Remove the hostname, the swap code etc
20:05
*at least, not last
20:13
Ouch, there's a bug in the upstream nbd script... (and I'm to blame for the patch I sent... :D) /me tries to find a way around it...
20:13
Or not... with nbdroot=/ltsp_i386, then the name is indeed "/ltsp_i386", not just "ltsp_i386"
20:14
So it's ok
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20:22
<alkisg>
Is there any reason to use [ltsp_i386] instead of [/opt/ltsp/images/i386.img] in the server configuration?
20:22
I think it's more similar to nfs if we specify nbdroot=/opt/ltsp/images/i386.img in the kernel command line...
20:23
<bakytn>
Hey! Any idea why xfreerdp is working only if I am using it through xterm? like SCREEN_07="xterm -e 'xfreerdp ...'" if I set the same but without xterm -e it just showing me a cursor on a black screen
20:24
<vagrantc>
alkisg: it's nice to have shorter commandline arguments, even if it's scripted
20:24
<alkisg>
vagrantc: for nfs, you're using root-path=/opt/ltsp/i386, right? why not use a real path for nbd too?
20:25
Except for that, I also have a problem with the syntax, because in the nbd patch that I sent I assumed that the name will always start with a slash
20:26
Otherwise, with nbdroot=ltsp_i386, that's a server name, not an export name
20:26
So nbdroot=/ltsp_i386 would work with the current nbd version
20:28
<vagrantc>
alkisg: is the lts.conf downloading working for you?
20:29
<alkisg>
I haven't reached that part in my tests yet, I'm still to the "ditch ltsp_nbd" part
20:29
A few hours ago it was working
20:31
<vagrantc>
it hard-coded NBD_ROOT_HOST=server, before "server" was a resolvable hostname, at least on debian.
20:31
<alkisg>
That syntax will work, for specifying an export name that doesn't start with a slash: nbdroot=:ltsp_i386. But it looks silly...
20:32
I think nbdroot=/ltsp_i386 looks better, so maybe we should put [/ltsp_i386] in the nbd-server config file
20:32
<vagrantc>
don't think :ltsp_i386 looks any worse than /ltsp_i386 ...
20:33
and if it keeps the syntax more consistant, don't see why not...
20:33
<alkisg>
The idea was to resemble the nfs syntax, ip: port / path
20:33
So, path usually starts with a slash, not with a colon...
20:34
<vagrantc>
but if you're "breaking" the patch anyways...
20:34
i.e. it's not /ltsp_i386
20:34
it's /opt/ltsp/images/i386.img
20:34
i don't see any reason to kind of sort of mirror it
20:35
<alkisg>
Those 3 will work with the current nbd version: nbdroot=/ltsp_i386, nbdroot=/opt/ltsp/images/i386.img, nbdroot=:ltsp_i386
20:35
<vagrantc>
either mirror or, or do it's own thing.
20:35
<alkisg>
So you'd go with the last one?
20:35
<vagrantc>
i'd drop the first one
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20:35
<vagrantc>
what configuration does it affect?
20:36
<alkisg>
The export name in /etc/nbd-server/config
20:36
Which currently is [ltsp_i386]
20:36
...and that works with nbdroot=:ltsp_i386
20:36
Or, we can put /opt/ltsp/images/i386.img everywhere
20:36
<vagrantc>
that seems fine to me :)
20:36
er, [ltsp_i386] and nbdroot=:ltsp_i386 seems fine.
20:36
<alkisg>
OK, nbdroot=:ltsp_i386 it is :)
20:36
ty
20:37
<vagrantc>
probably good to add comments in the code to thhe effect of "yes, the : is really needed in order to properly support syntax ..."
20:38
<alkisg>
So the current syntax to boot an nbd client is: append ro initrd=initrd.img nbddev=/dev/nbd0 nbdroot=:ltsp_i386 init=/sbin/init-ltsp quiet splash plymouth:force-splash
20:38
<vagrantc>
so you workaround the plymouth bug with commandline options?
20:39
that's not too bad...
20:39
<alkisg>
Yes, until hopefully we send a patch for it
20:39
If they can not disable the splash for init=/sbin/init*, then we're ok
20:39
<vagrantc>
you explicitly need nbddev ?
20:39
<alkisg>
Yes Wouter insisted on that :( (or I misunderstood him)
20:40
I'll check if we can skip that too
20:40
<vagrantc>
probably to prevent it from triggering with a disked boot or something
20:40
although you'd think nbdroot would be enough to prevent that
20:40
<alkisg>
He accepted root=/dev/nbd0 instead, but not just nbdrooot=x
20:40
<vagrantc>
at some point you just go with it :)
20:40
<alkisg>
Yeah, it's just a few bytes in the end :D
20:41
<vagrantc>
i have had issues with "long" commandlines and grub2...
20:41
<alkisg>
How long?
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20:41
<vagrantc>
(not particularly long, really)
20:41
<alkisg>
echo "append ro initrd=initrd.img nbddev=/dev/nbd0 nbdroot=:ltsp_i386 init=/sbin/init-ltsp quiet splash plymouth:force-splash" | wc -c
20:41
120
20:42
I think 200+ are supported even by old pxelinux versions
20:42
<vagrantc>
i've been meaning to file a bug about that, but it always comes up when i'm swamped with other things
20:42
<alkisg>
(and kernel too)
20:48
<vagrantc>
hmmm... translations for ltsp-trunk are falling behind
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20:55
<alkisg>
vagrantc: that line 23 in init-bottom/ltsp works for you?!
20:55
[ -d "${rootmnt}/proc" ] || panic "rootmnt not mounted in init-bottom"
20:55
...that script mounts rootmnt, why does it check if it's already mounted?!
20:56
And of course that chroot will fail too
20:56
<vagrantc>
alkisg: haven't tested recent trunk, but trunk from friday worked
20:56
alkisg: about to test trunk now...
20:56
<alkisg>
That file hasn't changed
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20:56
<alkisg>
vagrantc: wait, I think it's clearly broken, so let's just talk about how to fix it, i.e. tell me how to detect in nfs if you want to do the cow stuff
20:57
if ! chroot ${rootmnt} /usr/bin/test -w "/" ; then
20:57
<vagrantc>
alkisg: it's not clearly broken for me...
20:57
<alkisg>
Hm. Ah, ok, got it
20:57
It only works for NFS
20:58
As the nfs scripts mount the root to /root
20:58
While nbd has only prepared /dev/nbd0
20:58
<vagrantc>
as should the NBD scripts?
20:58
<alkisg>
OK give me a minute to check...
20:59
Aaaah ok it's because I'm using btrfs and nbd doesn't know how to mount it
20:59
(while ltsp_nbd does)
20:59
<vagrantc>
the NBD script just sets up a device that is then used for root
21:00
trunk still works for me
21:01
it technically mounts it in ${rootmnt} :)
21:01
<alkisg>
Eh, no, the nbd script doesn't loop mount /dev/nbd0 anywhere
21:01
root=/dev/nbd0 is a valid block device
21:01
So it doesn't bother with that
21:01
<vagrantc>
yes, you'd have to pass root=/dev/nbd0
21:01
and it defaults to using scripts/local
21:01
<alkisg>
But still in init-bottom that wouldn't be mounted
21:02
Ah
21:02
Let me check..
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21:04
<alkisg>
Yup, that looks much better! So new command line: append ro initrd=initrd.img root=/dev/nbd0 nbdroot=:ltsp_i386 init=/sbin/init-ltsp
21:04
...and I got to a tty (not ldm?!) without ltsp_nbd :)
21:05
<vagrantc>
this setup should make it really easy to switch between NFS and NBD
21:05
<alkisg>
Indeed, just a command line option
21:05
<vagrantc>
anyone use the kiosk screen script?
21:05
<alkisg>
Some environment variables must be missing. I'll commit the changes so far.
21:05
<vagrantc>
i need to get it to work with debian...
21:06
<alkisg>
It's a bit broken in ubuntu too, afaik
21:06
It'd be nice to merge those two
21:06
<vagrantc>
also wanted to change a few things ... i.e. create the user if it didn't exist annd such
21:06
might also want to look into using nodm
21:07
alkisg: oh, i don't think i tried init=/sbin/init-ltsp
21:07* vagrantc keeps wanting to try /sbin/ltsp-init
21:08
<vagrantc>
upstream LXDE fixed shutdown/reboot from LTSP :)
21:09
i think that happened a while ago, but happy to see it now.
21:10
meh. a chain of recommends are pulling in exim4 ... not sure how to conflict with that.
21:10
all i can think of, and it would be wrong, is to conflict/breaks with mail-transport-agent ... but i just want that to be the default, not impossible to do.
21:11
<alkisg>
A manual apt-get install --no-install-recommends "all the recommented packages except exim4". Lame :(
21:12
<vagrantc>
or i could ship a dummy "ltsp-nomail" package that breaks mail-transport-agent and is recommended by ltsp-client
21:12
although that might get unpredictible.
21:13
unless i could convince maintainers of all the affected packages that recommemnds is too strong, but it seems like an appropriate case of recommends...
21:14
<alkisg>
Blacklist it temporarily :P
21:14
<||cw>
or, add a depends to nullmailer
21:14
<alkisg>
With some apt configuration file
21:14
<||cw>
or just install nullmailer
21:14
<alkisg>
Then remove that file
21:14
<vagrantc>
eeyk.
21:14
mounting with a writeable root ended up re-creating some files in /var/cache/apt/ that eat up 33MB
21:15
<||cw>
mount /var/cache/apt/ on a tempfs :)
21:15
I do this on SSD's too
21:16
<vagrantc>
it is mounted on a tmpfs, which means the thin-client is wasting ram.
21:16
<||cw>
reboot, done?
21:16
<vagrantc>
this happened immediately on boot.
21:16
<||cw>
does have a "nocache" option?
21:16
or just always run apt-get clean?
21:17
<vagrantc>
nocache?
21:17
<||cw>
does apt^^
21:17
<vagrantc>
i'll figure this out before i upload to debian :P
21:17* ||cw accidentally a whole word!
21:18
<vagrantc>
i could mount another aufs on top of it that's read-only... hah.
21:18
<||cw>
esmtp-run seems nice, installed size 8KB
21:19
<vagrantc>
this is probably some cron job that kicked off
21:19
<||cw>
ah, depends on estp, so add another 150K, still a lot smaller than nullmailer
21:19
<vagrantc>
now /var/lib/dpkg is also getting ugly.
21:20
although in actuality, i don't even want a mail-transport-agent
21:20
<||cw>
I don't think i even allow cron to start on my thins
21:20
<vagrantc>
though installing a minimalist one would be better than nothing.
21:21
<||cw>
a relay one is good, if you happen to have something that expects it, like cron
21:21
<vagrantc>
basically, it all went wrong went i added the dependency on rsyslog, which has a dependency/recommends chain on cron, logrotate, and eventually a mail-transport-agent
21:21
but we need both rsyslog and cron by default in order to support several optional features of LTSP
21:22* alkisg thinks he's going to break some more stuff before it gets better... removing ltsp_nbd... :)
21:22
<||cw>
relay sounds great then, so you can know when cron is failing
21:23
<vagrantc>
only if there's a sane place to relay to
21:23
and i don't want to have the LTSP server-side packages have a working mail setup.
21:24
or rather, i don't want to require that
21:26
<alkisg>
vagrantc: I want to create an ltsp-nbd-client wrapper for those that want to use nbd-proxy. I'll copy_exec that to initramfs's /sbin. But where would I put that in the source tree?
21:27
<vagrantc>
alkisg: could just dump it in client
21:28
or client/scripts/
21:28
<alkisg>
Thanks :)
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21:29
<vagrantc>
alkisg: so init-bottom should copy /tmp/net-*.conf into somewhere the root can get at?
21:29
<alkisg>
vagrantc: right
21:30
<vagrantc>
and the debate was /run/ltsp vs. /var/cache/ltsp ?
21:30
<alkisg>
Yes
21:30
<vagrantc>
(or alternately dumping it into /var/cache/ltsp/ltsp_config
21:30
<alkisg>
Yup
21:30
<vagrantc>
(or ltsp_config_env?)
21:30
<alkisg>
No
21:30
That last one gets reset on each lts.conf parsing
21:30
<vagrantc>
ah.
21:31
didn't get the difference between the two.
21:31
<alkisg>
Yeah Gadi was a bit cryptic there :)
21:32
mgariepy: I'll leave the nbd-proxy-wrapper stuff for tomorrow. Expect something bootable by tomorrow evening, UTC
21:32
<mgariepy>
alkisg, great thanks.
21:32
<vagrantc>
so, when init=/sbin/init-ltsp is used, all init-bottom/ltsp does is essentially ensurre that ${rootmnt} is writeable?
21:32
<alkisg>
stgraber: in a couple of hours, could you upload another ltsp package in your ppa? It'll be broken, but it'll be easier to check what needs fixing...
21:32
<mgariepy>
i'll push a working version of nbd-proxy very soon :)
21:33
<alkisg>
vagrantc: yes, the cow stuff and the net-eth0.conf stuff
21:33
We have a pretty minimal initramfs code now...
21:33
<vagrantc>
and alternately, if init=/sbin/init-ltsp, run the init-ltsp hook.
21:33
er, if not using init= ...
21:34
<alkisg>
Right
21:34
<piet>
@alkisg: I remember U telling us that U use epoptes. My question: is it possible to run the epoptes-server out of the ltsp image on a fat-client and if so, is there anything special about it? (I got errors . . .)
21:34
<alkisg>
piet: it's much easier to use ltsp-remoteapps for that
21:35
I.e. to still run epoptes on the server, and run the GUI with ltsp-remoteapps from the fat client
21:35
<piet>
that is an alternate soft?
21:35
<alkisg>
It's an lts.conf option
21:35
!ltsp-remoteapps
21:35
<ltsp`>
alkisg: Error: "ltsp-remoteapps" is not a valid command.
21:35
<alkisg>
Meh, dumb bot
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21:36
<alkisg>
You put REMOTE_APPS=True in lts.conf
21:36
And you launch epoptes with: ltsp-remoteapps epoptes
21:37
And you can also create a wrapper script in /usr/share/local/bin/epoptes that launches ltsp-remoteapps /usr/bin/epoptes. This way you'll be able to launch epoptes from the menu, instead of using the terminal.
21:38* alkisg needs to write that in the wiki page... piet, file a question about that, in launchpad, use the epoptes help menu to find the link
21:38
<piet>
I didnt get that totally. What You just explained sound like the management for the client. Am I right?
21:39
Isnt there a difference between Clients and server?
21:39
<alkisg>
piet: your objective is to be able to run the epoptes gui from a fat client, right?
21:39
<piet>
yes
21:39
server
21:40
<alkisg>
The server (daemon, no user interface) will still be in the ltsp server
21:40
<stgraber>
alkisg: do you want me to wait for something or should I upload one now?
21:40
<alkisg>
The GUI, the epoptes window, will be launched from the fat client
21:40
stgraber: please wait a couple of hours, I want to remove ltsp_nbd first
21:40
<stgraber>
alkisg: ok, ping me on IRC when you want one, it takes me 30s to push one ;)
21:40
<alkisg>
stgraber: thanks :)
21:41
piet: I'm in the middle of something and can't take the time to write the steps properly. Please file a question in launchpad about it, so that I can answer it with a wiki page.
21:41
https://answers.launchpad.net/epoptes
21:41
<piet>
thanx
21:42
<alkisg>
Or use the ltsp or edubuntu mailing lists
21:43
<piet>
isnt there a wiki where its already documented, or is it that brand new?
21:43
<vagrantc>
GAH!
21:44
the fact that simply running ltsp-update-image overwrites the configuration to use NBD drives me crazy ... i've got to fix that.
21:45
<stgraber>
it should be changed to using the new .d directory anyway
21:45
overwriting an ltsp file in there instead of using my python script to override the main configuration file (which is really ugly but we didn't really have a choice back then)
21:46
<alkisg>
piet: the wiki is in http://www.epoptes.org/documentation, I'll write another page there about running epoptes from a fat client in 2 days, if you remind me with that question or mail in the mailing list.
21:46
<vagrantc>
it's that it tweaks the pxelinux configuration that ltsp-update-image breaks things ... the configuration changes are fine.
21:47
i.e. setting it up to offer nbd images isn't nearly as damaging as actually forcing it before it's ready.
21:48
<alkisg>
vagrantc: so, how should I save the contents of net-*.conf?
21:48
Should I just put them to ltsp_config and be done with it?
21:48
<vagrantc>
alkisg: just tested a patch to copy to /var/cache/ltsp/net-*.conf
21:49
<alkisg>
Ah, cool, please commit it when you think it's ready
21:49
(remember to pull first, I just removed ltsp_nbd... :))
21:50
<piet>
@alkisg: I got that - remind U by question - no hurry - thank U, pls dont feel disturbed, cause I realy appreciate Ur help.
21:51
<vagrantc>
alkisg: bzr-rebase is really useful for that :)
21:52
<alkisg>
Ehhh my capacity for new commands is limited to 10 per month, now I learned about madison, syncpackage and a lot of others, leaving that one for March... :D
21:52
*rmadison
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21:58
<vagrantc>
alkisg: well, i've got to tackle some other things for a bit, but pushed the changes
21:58
<alkisg>
vagrantc: I think we're missing the $SERVER in the init-ltsp.d dir
21:58
I'll have a look tomorrow too
21:59
<vagrantc>
alkisg: it's because of 00-getltsconfig
21:59
<alkisg>
I guess it's pretty broken now, but I hope tomorrow it'll be bootable
21:59
<vagrantc>
alkisg: it hard-codes NBD_HOST_SERVER=server, which ends up setting SERVER=server
21:59* vagrantc was hoping to upload today :(
21:59
<alkisg>
vagrantc: I don't see any SERVER= lines anywhere
22:00
<vagrantc>
alkisg: 50-hostname sets server, and the hard-coding of NBD_ROOT_HOST breaks 50-hostname
22:01
<alkisg>
vagrantc: 50-hostname writes $SERVER to /etc/hosts, but where does that environment variable get its value?
22:02
<vagrantc>
oh, weird.
22:02
it was in there somewhere...
22:02
it took me a while to find it ...
22:03
client/ltsp_config.d/10ltsp-server
22:04
<alkisg>
Ah, set_lts_var, that's why I couldn't find it with grep SERVER= :D
22:04
<vagrantc>
yup
22:04
<alkisg>
Hey! set_lts_var?!
22:04
That will be emptied on the next lts.conf evaluation...
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22:04
<vagrantc>
it's a maze of stuff
22:05
<alkisg>
...we need to clean that up too some time :(
22:06
vagrantc: err that 10ltsp-server is awful
22:06
All that just to get the server where nbd-client or nfs client connected to?!
22:09
For nbd, we can save the parameters from the initramfs, along with net-*.conf
22:09
or parse the command line, but I don't see why we need to parse fstab..
22:12
Time to get some sleep. stgraber could you please upload a package to your ppa?
22:18
<stgraber>
alkisg: ok
22:22
alkisg: uploading now
22:23
<alkisg>
Ty, good night all
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