IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 24 March 2008   (all times are UTC)

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00:23
<talntid>
on a default LTSP install under ubuntu, its saying that there is no window manager, no Xsessions...
00:23
ideas?
00:23
LTSP5
00:23
i get a graphical login page, then it goes black, and bumps me back out to the graphial login
00:27
<johnny>
haven't seen that
00:28
<talntid>
hrm
00:28
<johnny>
and ltsp-build-client completed with no errors?
00:29
<talntid>
yes
00:30
<johnny>
i guess you should check launchpad for bugs
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00:32
<talntid>
hrm :\
00:32
http://www.mail-archive.com/ltsp-discuss@lists.sourceforge.net/msg32771.html
00:32
same issue that guy has
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01:27
<talntid>
.. does a desktop need to be running on the server to for LTSP to work?
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05:54
<|Paradox|>
|03/23/08|09:55:41PM| <jammcq> you need a ltsp-5 guy to answer that. not sure if there's any around right now <-----you've stopped being the main LTSP programmer etc.?
05:55
|03/24/08|02:26:39AM| <talntid> .. does a desktop need to be running on the server to for LTSP to work? <----NO unless things have changed with LTSP5 my old LTSP server was completely text and headless to boot.
05:56
They need to be available for the clients, tho.
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09:06
<cliebow_>
arrgh..my applications and System are gone..
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09:32
<jammcq>
hey kidz
09:32
<laga>
hey jammcq
09:32
<cyberorg>
hi jammcq
09:35
<jammcq>
hey laga and cyberorg
09:35
cyberorg: i'm gonna be talking about ltsp-5 in brazil mid-april
09:35
I wanna load up a opensuse server before them
09:35
and i'm certain that I'll need some help
09:36
<cyberorg>
jammcq, i saw that you wanted to try out the work we are doing :) use this http://dev.compiz-fusion.org/~cyberorg/2008/03/19/kiwi-ltsp-prebuilt-images/
09:36
<jammcq>
I prolly won't get to it until about Aprl 6th
09:36
<cyberorg>
you might be able to use those on any rpm distro :)
09:37
<jammcq>
I'll actually load up a opensuse server
09:37
I want the full experience
09:37
<cyberorg>
i don't have any TC hardware to test, but i heard the it does not boot up ltsp 150 hardware that you have
09:38
<jammcq>
I also have a T-1220
09:38
<cyberorg>
do you have anyone who can test all your hardwares and see which ones boot properly?
09:38
<jammcq>
or T-1225
09:38
something like that
09:38
<cyberorg>
if it doesn't work with most hardware, we might have to dig deeper in our kernel/initrd
09:39
<warren>
excellent, vagrant's rewrite of the screen scripts is working great.
09:39
tested xdmcp and ldm (with and without LDM_DIRECTX)
09:42
<jammcq>
testing the hardware isn't the problem. getting someone to load up the various distros and do full testing is much harder
09:42
<cyberorg>
jammcq, virtualbox :)
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09:44
<cyberorg>
let me see if i can get virtualbox image of opensuse ltsp server
09:45
<jammcq>
don't rush
09:45
i'm not even sure who'll do that work
09:46
<cyberorg>
of course not hurrying, but virtual image would be good anyway for anyone who wants to test real quick
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09:57
<warren>
cyberorg, I think jammcq was talking about testing the actual client models
09:58
<cyberorg>
warren, yup, but setting up different distros is a pain too :)
09:59
warren, you can test the prebuilt image on fedora if you want to get the feel of how it is implemented by us
09:59* warren does not care at all.
09:59
<laga>
play nice, kids
10:00
<cyberorg>
having kubuntu in vmware here helped a lot, haven't asked any "how is this done" questions here
10:02
<warren>
I've been asking "how it is done" mainly because I'm interested in improving how it is done in a common way.
10:08gvy has joined #ltsp
10:08
<gvy>
halo
10:09cliebow_ has joined #ltsp
10:09
<gvy>
jammcq, sbalneav, cyberorg, warren: need an advice on merge policy
10:09
cliebow_, hi
10:09
<cyberorg>
hi gvy
10:09
<gvy>
currently we've got:
10:09
<cliebow_>
gvy:!!!
10:09
<gvy>
alt-specific plugins (which can rest in a dir and not bother anyone)
10:09
<warren>
who is gvy?
10:10
<gvy>
warren, Michael Shigorin // pro-ALT // anti-RH :)
10:10
bothering type, must admit
10:10
<warren>
gvy, is it really necessary for you to actively act like such an ass?
10:10
<gvy>
warren, no
10:10
so,
10:10
1) alt-specific plugins (which can rest in a dir and not bother anyone)
10:10
<warren>
gvy, seriously, your behavior on the list makes me want to just utterly ignore you.
10:10
<gvy>
2) semi-specific things like init scripts
10:10
<warren>
gvy, please tone it down if you want people to respect what you say.
10:10
<gvy>
warren, that helps a lot in fact
10:11
thanks
10:11
<warren>
gvy, have you published your bzr tree? I can help to review it.
10:13
<gvy>
3) a patch for common part which has apparently specific pieces needed for e.g. plugins -- and enough generic cleanups as well
10:13
(this seems like fork worst of all to me)
10:13
warren, a minute :)
10:13
some of cleanups fix code that was, er, questionable
10:13
<warren>
gvy, plugins for ltsp-build-client will likely go in easily, I'll review the conflicting parts to see if how it can be merged.
10:13
<gvy>
so currently i think what should we do:
10:14
<warren>
gvy, is your bzr repo split into logical checkins? It is a huge pain to review one giant diff
10:14
gvy, we can merge in the non-conflicting parts and easy merges first just to shrink the diff size, makes it easier to understand the remaining diff.
10:15
<gvy>
- either propose plugins and the rest of specific stuff that doesn't conflict with anything by design, and then incrementally add the "specific" pieces of the common base patch (rewritten to be generic) until plugins would work again
10:15
- or propose everything which *will* cause some havoc on generic part
10:15
so far i'd rather do first case
10:16
<warren>
gvy, I'm not willing to do the conflict-adaptation merge work for you, and I will not dig into understanding a giant diff with many unrelated changes, but I am willing to meet you half-way.
10:16
<gvy>
but there can be other merge experience :)
10:16
warren, now "a minute" has passed, will try to answer...
10:16
1) no bzr repo atm (explanation follows)
10:17
2) currently, yes, a 20k patch along with standalone stuff
10:17
3) i understand noone's going to do my job for me, it would be weird :)
10:17
on bzr:
10:17
my colleague who's been doing the work still prefers SCMs r/o
10:17
strange but...
10:18
i'd rather use git as that integrates with alt's build system
10:18
<warren>
gvy, you will need to be able to hand us bzr checkins if you want to merge back with upstream
10:18
<gvy>
still i understand that if upstream uses bzr then it's reasonable to offer things in bzr
10:18
yup
10:20
warren, cyberorg, could you please tell whether (rest aside) it is better to add non-working specific stuff and then add fixes to generic part so it works for our specifics,
10:20
or better fix generics then add (working at that stage) specifics?
10:20
<warren>
gvy, I recommend merging in the non-conflicting stuff first, shrink the total diff size.
10:20
<gvy>
warren, ok
10:21
<warren>
gvy, it isn't clear what you mean by generic vs. specific because we haven't seen your code
10:21
<cyberorg>
gvy, why do you assume it is non-working?
10:21
<warren>
gvy, where is your diff? I'll push the obviously non-conflicting part now
10:21
<gvy>
warren, is bzr preferable on launchpad or anywhere? (i don't know yet whether bzr repo can be just rsynced to a webserver to be useful)
10:21
<warren>
gvy, anywhere is fine
10:23
looks like I can use bzr commit --author to use your name instead of mine
10:23
I'll commit the obviously non-conflicting pieces first
10:23
and push them upstream
10:24
gvy, I'm doing this just because I'm trying to build a true upstream. But if you continue being an ass I will completely ignore you. This is your only warning.
10:24
<mnemoc>
warren: hi, did you have time to work on mount -o nbd ?
10:24
<warren>
mnemoc, with my time left before Fedora 9 it appears that I have to give up on it for now.
10:24
<mnemoc>
ic :(
10:25
<gvy>
warren, well i can do a fork with less effort now :) think you understand that in the long run it's not for the better for any of us
10:25
<warren>
mnemoc, too many other things to fix before Fedora 9... I can at least have it working on fedora 9 with NFS.
10:25
gvy, please stop acting arrogant and insulting on the list and everyone will be better able to cooperate.
10:25
<gvy>
warren, hey, i know what "a troll" is
10:26
and poisonous one as well
10:26
<warren>
that word has been mentioned here recently..
10:26
<gvy>
doesn't help anyone of course, hence the deal
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10:29
<cyberorg>
warren, would you be committing these patches as well? http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?thread_name=b317ae5c0803160344la9ee27dx7fa67588f8076608%40mail.gmail.com&forum_name=ltsp-developer
10:29
http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?thread_name=b317ae5c0803080631k35bb8665ybd53009539a95181%40mail.gmail.com&forum_name=ltsp-developer
10:30
<warren>
cyberorg, I suppose I can, although it seemed so trivial
10:30
<cyberorg>
warren, well we can get started with trivial first :)
10:30
<gvy>
warren, thanks for advice, i'm off to look closer at current diff -- seems we want it spilt like this:
10:31
- minimal fixes to get our specifics to work
10:31
<warren>
cyberorg, you want the author to read CyberOrg <jigish.gohil@gmail.com>?
10:31
<gvy>
- reasonable fixes to generic scripts
10:31
- questionable/debatable/changeable fixes to generics
10:31
<warren>
gvy, how long ago did you bzr pull from ltsp-trunk?
10:31
<cyberorg>
first one, the second one is captain_magnus <magnus.boman@gmail.com>
10:32
<gvy>
r576
10:32
warren, r576
10:32
<warren>
gvy, ouch. we're at 672 now
10:32
gvy, might want to merge your stuff with 672 and retest/refix everything first. A LOT of things have changed.
10:33
<gvy>
ouch
10:33
warren, could you lend me current repo address then?
10:33
<warren>
gvy, Debian, Fedora and Gentoo have been keeping up constantly testing as things change in ltsp-trunk
10:33
<gvy>
seems like led@ has stuck where 576 was
10:34
<warren>
gvy, https://code.launchpad.net/~ltsp-upstream/ltsp/ltsp-trunk
10:34
<gvy>
probably after repo move or sorts...
10:34
thanks
10:34
<warren>
heh, vagrant pushed more
10:34
674 now
10:36
gvy, resyncing with ltsp-trunk might give you a good opportunity to split out your changes into individual commits
10:37
gvy, you will also want to rsync ldm-trunk and ltspfs-trunk as changes have happened there as well
10:37
<gvy>
warren, thanks
10:38
<warren>
- VENDOR=$(lsb_release -i -s)
10:38
+ VENDOR=$(lsb_release -i -s | tr " " "_")
10:38
why?
10:38
cyberorg, ?
10:41
<cyberorg>
warren, because it is SUSE LINUX
10:41
<warren>
this wont break other distros?
10:41
<cyberorg>
no, none have space in their names
10:41
<warren>
I mean, Fedora doesn't use lsb_release at all
10:41
ok
10:41
<laga>
heh. i liked that answer. "hey, why do you need that weird hack" -" because it is SUSE LINUX"
10:41
<mnemoc>
ROTFL
10:43
<cyberorg>
warren, so how does ltsp-build-client find out which plugin to use on fedora?
10:43
<warren>
cyberorg, happens at RPM build time
10:43
cyberorg, I am thinking to generalize that without a k12 specific name...
10:44
<gvy>
btw not quoting variables is one of the most common troubles of ltsp scripts
10:44
<cyberorg>
warren, it wont work for someone that pulls brz
10:44
<warren>
gvy, causing actual failures?
10:44
gvy, quoting variables is not always needed
10:44
<gvy>
well, too
10:45
warren, nice habit though
10:45
cheaper than figuring out what changed where causing what to break
10:45
<warren>
gvy, I agree, but please split code cleanups into a separate patch
10:45* gvy sometimes writes smth like VAR="/etc/config"; [ -s "$VAR" ] ...
10:45
<warren>
cyberorg, see my spec file?
10:46
<gvy>
warren, yup, hence the question
10:46
<warren>
gvy, I've been doing a lot of cleanups since you forked
10:46
<cyberorg>
warren, yup i have
10:46
<warren>
gvy, more cleanups are welcomed, however we need separate patches
10:46
cyberorg, does suse have /etc/sysconfig?
10:47
<cyberorg>
warren, yes
10:47
<warren>
cyberorg, I'm thinking to rename k12_dist to ltspdist. Then rpmbuild writes to /etc/sysconfig/ltspdist.
10:47
cyberorg, so it sets up everything that would normally come from lsb_release
10:48* warren does that now.
10:48
<cyberorg>
ok, we can put that up too
10:48
<warren>
i'll push my example then you can adapt yours
10:48
<cyberorg>
k
10:49
i have all the variables that i need in /etc/sysconfig/kiwi-ltsp
10:51
<warren>
best keep that separate from /etc/sysconfig/ltspdist
10:51
because I'm not using your name =)
10:51
<cyberorg>
yeah, of course, that was only a stop gap arrangement till there was something upstream
10:52
<warren>
it isn't that kind of options though
10:52
see server/configs/k12linux/k12_dist.template
10:52
<cyberorg>
there is a student who would be working on GUI if he gets select for GSoC so something that everyone can use is required
10:52
<warren>
cyberorg, I'm not prepared to mentor such a student, the underlying options are undergoing heavy change
10:53
<cyberorg>
i would be doing that, he was fedora user so i pointed him to you
10:53
<warren>
cyberorg, /etc/sysconfig/ltspdist would *only* hardcode the info that ltsp-build-client gets from lsb_release
10:53
cyberorg, hmm
10:53
cyberorg, ok I'll talk with him
10:53
<cyberorg>
he posted on your blog already
10:54
<warren>
I'm so overloaded by Fedora 9 requirements I can't hand hold and tell him what to do now =(
10:54
<cyberorg>
https://forgesvn1.novell.com/viewsvn/kiwi-ltsp/trunk/kiwi-ltsp/ltsp/suse-11.0/kiwi-ltsp?revision=92&view=markup
10:54
this is what we've got
10:59
<warren>
cyberorg, "SUSE_LINUX" is a bit ugly of a name wouldn't you agree?
10:59
<cyberorg>
warren, yes it is, they need to change that to openSUSE
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11:00
<cyberorg>
but that is what lsb_release says, and i don't really mind it too much to file a bug for that
11:03
<warren>
if you do it like the way I do, you can call your directory in the source tree anything
11:04
<vagrantc>
warren: basically, you're desiring to drop any sort of distro-independent tool to figure out distro-specific information
11:04
<warren>
cyberorg, I'm not merging your patch because you'll likely have something better after you adapt to this
11:04
<cyberorg>
warren, if ltsp-build-client reads /etc/sysconfig/ltspdist i am fine, call it openSUSE
11:04
i can do away with lsb_release too
11:05
<warren>
vagrantc, in the specific case of lsb_release, I personally don't want to depend on it because my plugins work on Fedora, CentOS, RHEL and other clones just fine.
11:05
brb lunch
11:05
<vagrantc>
alright.
11:05
<warren>
cyberorg, didn't check it in yet, need to review it
11:05* vagrantc doesn't like /etc/sysconfig/*
11:06
<vagrantc>
why not name it a distro-independent file in /etc/ltsp ?
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11:12
<cyberorg>
vagrantc, that is fine too
11:12
we already put /etc/ltsp/nbdswapd.conf there
11:14
<gvy>
r675. :)
11:14
now reading tutorial to put it up
11:14
vagrantc, hi
11:17
<vagrantc>
gvy: hey.
11:17
gvy: altlinux patches, i'm guessing?
11:17
<gvy>
another stupid question: is any bzr branch a standalone repo? (git repo han hold load of branches)
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11:17
<gvy>
vagrantc, yup -- plugins first
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11:18
<vagrantc>
gvy: each branch is a single repository, yes.
11:18
<gvy>
*ouch*
11:18
so when you do a few topic branches you end up with multiple repos?
11:19
(just to make things clear to plan how to work with them)
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11:19
<gvy>
e.g. we now mess with ltsp-trunk; guess the branches might be something like ltsp-trunk, or altsp, or ltsp-trunk_altsp_plugins?
11:20
(if the stages would be e.g. plugins, initscripts, fixes, cleanups)
11:20
<vagrantc>
typical work flow would be, work on a feature in a separate branch and when it's ready, merge into ltsp-trunk
11:20
<gvy>
or just do a branch and sequentially commit "plugins", "initscripts" et al?
11:20
vagrantc, thanks
11:21
<vagrantc>
gvy: i highly recommend making use of "bzr init-repo"
11:21
gvy: which allows you to store revisions in a common location (so that each branch doesn't duplicate a copy of all revisions)
11:22
<gvy>
vagrantc, thanks, longjmp manpage :)
11:22
<vagrantc>
gvy: i generally find the bzr FOO -h or bzr help FOO more useful ...
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11:25
<gvy>
mama mia
11:26
reading man bzr near init-repo seems like eveidence of either spaghetti design or broken architecture and *lots* of band aid over it...
11:27* vagrantc would rather work on ltsp than discuss the merits of any given vcs
11:27
<gvy>
vagrantc, er, should init-repo be done in existing repo or clean dir?
11:27
<vagrantc>
gvy: bzr init-repo SOMEDIR
11:28
gvy: cd SOMEDIR
11:28
gvy: bzr get URL://to/some/branch
11:28
gvy: bzr get URL://to/some/other/branchfoo
11:28
<gvy>
vagrantc, thanks!
11:28
<vagrantc>
gvy: anything checked out in any subdirectory of SOMEDIR will share revisions
11:30* gvy tries to remember this as "external journal"
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11:33
<vagrantc>
gvy: in the original bazaar, they were called "revision libraries"
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11:39
<gvy>
vagrantc, is it reasonable to init-repo ltsp and then get ltsp-trunk, ldm-trunk, etc there, or should repo contain only branches of the same project?
11:39
i guess init-repo ltsp-trunk
11:39
hm, but then ~ltsp-upstream/ltsp is probably a repo, no?
11:49
<vagrantc>
gvy: ltsp and ldm actually share a lot of revision history, as there were originally a single project.
11:49
gvy: it doesn't matter what you call it locally.
11:49
<gvy>
vagrantc, already done common "ltsp" repo, thx
11:49
<vagrantc>
gvy: just as long as you don't confuse your self.
11:50
<gvy>
vagrantc, well there may be naming "conventions" so there's yes, less confusion :)
11:50
<vagrantc>
ltspfs probably makes sense to keep in it's own branch
11:50
as it's a very small project and doesn't share history with the others ...
11:50
<gvy>
<noted>
11:51
<vagrantc>
gvy: i.e. i have ... bzr init-repo ~/src/ltsp ... under that i have ~/src/ltsp/ltsp-trunk ~/src/ltsp/ldm/ldm-trunk ... and bzr init-repo ~/src/ltsp/ltspfs ... ~/src/ltsp/ltspfs/ltspfs-trunk ...
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12:22
<gvy>
warren, vagrantc, pushing ltsp repo with local r675 in ltsp-altlinux carrying l-b-c plugins (must be a painless merge -- a separate dir)
12:22
the next question is for client/initscripts/
12:23
there are some custom ones which should probably be separate atm (probably reworked later, better would look yourself)
12:23
is it reasonable to create ALTLinux/ alongside with RPM/ there as these are _currently_ specific?
12:23
<warren>
gvy, I'll take a look
12:23
gvy, where did you push your repo?
12:24
<gvy>
warren, pushing (outbound jam)
12:28
<warren>
cyberorg, ok pushed
12:28
cyberorg, you need to write your own ltspdist.template file
12:28
<gvy>
warren, rsync copy of a repo is ok? (tutorials seem to suggest so)
12:29
<warren>
gvy, I think so
12:34
gvy, let me know when you have something uploaded
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12:36
<gvy>
warren, already :)
12:37
warren, will this do? http://ftp.linux.kiev.ua/pub/Linux/ALT/people/led/bzr/ltsp/ltsp-altlinux/ (or rsync://ftp.linux.kiev.ua/pub/Linux/ALT/people/led/bzr/ltsp/ltsp-altlinux/)
12:39
<vagrantc>
gvy: manually rsyncing won't work unless you sync the bzr dir from the init-repo branch as well.
12:39
<gvy>
vagrantc, http://ftp.linux.kiev.ua/pub/Linux/ALT/people/led/bzr/ltsp/ is rsynced repo
12:40
<vagrantc>
bzr: ERROR: Not a branch: "http://ftp.linux.kiev.ua/pub/Linux/ALT/people/led/bzr/ltsp/.bzr/branch/".
12:41
<gvy>
vagrantc, hm.
12:41
<vagrantc>
gvy: use the tools within bzr to handle the syncing, unless you really want to learn about bzr internals.
12:41
<gvy>
vagrantc, ok
12:41
does bzr push do ssh? (host:/path/to/repo)
12:42
<vagrantc>
gvy: bzr push sftp:/// is one of the most reliable, albiet slow ways of doing it.
12:42
gvy: yeah, sftp uses ssh's sftp hooks
12:42* gvy doesn't usually turn sftp on...
12:42
<gvy>
ok, will try
12:43
<vagrantc>
well, sftp is just an extension to ssh ... didn't know it required any special enabling or disabling.
12:43
it definitely goes through port 22, using ssh ...
12:45
<gvy>
vagrantc, well it can be disabled in sshd_config (in alt, by default is)... yes, over ssh
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12:45* vagrantc can't see any advantage of disabling sftp if you're giving people shell access
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12:46
<warren>
vagrantc, +1
12:48
<gvy>
vagrantc, ssh != shell
12:48
you can give e.g. rsync-only access, or cvs-only :)
12:48
<vagrantc>
true enough
12:49
gvy: in the bzrtools plugins, there's an rspush which uses rsync ... don't know if it handles shared repositories properly, but i would guess so.,
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12:51
<vagrantc>
gvy: although if you tarball up or rsync the whole directory structure, everything should work... been so long since i've tried any of that, though.
12:52
<gvy>
guess
12:52* gvy doesn't rsync git repos as well, even if those tend to just work then
12:57
<gvy>
vagrantc, hm, http://ftp.linux.kiev.ua/pub/Linux/ALT/people/led/bzr/ltsp/ltsp-altlinux/ done with bzr push sftp:// seems "not a branch" again
12:58
ah.
12:58
mistyped.
12:58
seems like branch. :)
13:01
<vagrantc>
having troubles actually getting it ... very slow connection
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13:34
<gvy>
warren, vagrantc, thanks for tips&advice, going home, continuing tomorrow
13:34
<warren>
vagrantc, you going to review his stuff?
13:35
<vagrantc>
warren: it's all ALTLinux specific plugins...
13:37
gvy: led, gvy ... michael shingori ...
13:38
<warren>
vagrantc, I told him I will promptly ignore him if he acts like an ass on the list again, and this is his only warning.
13:38
<vagrantc>
heh.
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13:40
<cyberorg>
warren i'd go with lsb_release for now, i like auto detection more than having to put it in a config file, just commit the suse plugin, i'll work on adding more to it
13:40
<vagrantc>
warren: yeah, i'm not exactly pleased at the situation under which we've recieved the altlinux patches ...
13:40
<warren>
cyberorg, oh, ok.
13:41
vagrantc, I told him he has to behave a lot better if he's going to get upstream cooperation, and he did go as far as calling himself a troll.
13:41
<cyberorg>
vagrantc, i hope ogra just has a small vacation and start on ltsp again
13:41
<vagrantc>
cyberorg: me too.
13:41
<dberkholz>
me 3
13:41
<vagrantc>
warren: thanks for that.
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13:43
<warren>
taking me FOREVER to pull altlinux's bzr repo
13:43
<cyberorg>
warren, the second patch from captain_magnus was for ldm
13:43
<warren>
might be faster to walk to Russia and get it
13:44
<vagrantc>
as far as reviewing the patches, seems like there's nothing really to review. it's all in the ALTLinux plugin dir, so can't really hurt anyone else.
13:44
<warren>
vagrantc, that's only the first step
13:44
vagrantc, I told him to submit the non-conflicting parts first
13:44
vagrantc, in order to shrink the diff
13:44
<vagrantc>
ah.
13:44
warren: well, we can merge one revision at a time.
13:45
<warren>
vagrantc, next comes things that touch other parts, I told him to split it out into individual patches for review.
13:45
<vagrantc>
warren: definitely.
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13:45
<warren>
vagrantc, they currently aren't one revision at a time though, he has a giant 20k patch
13:45
vagrantc, he was previously forked at 576, so might take some work
13:45
<vagrantc>
warren: i haven't seen any of the other stuff, just the plugins
13:46
<warren>
vagrantc, yeah
13:46
<vagrantc>
and while the plugins are one huge patch, it's one huge patch that's easy to review.
13:46
unless there's some other distro out there calling themselves ALTLinux
13:47
basically, the plugins look mergeable, but i see no reason to merge them at this moment.
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13:51
<dberkholz>
he didn't check stuff into his own bzr repo a bit at a time? that's annoying
13:52
<cyberorg>
ltsp-build-client runs everything in common and then run stuff in the distro folder?
13:52
<vagrantc>
cyberorg: no
13:53
<cyberorg>
vagrantc, only the distro?
13:53
<vagrantc>
cyberorg: it looks at files in both directories and then runs them in order based on filename
13:53
<cyberorg>
vagrantc, what if i dont want anything common to run?
13:54
<vagrantc>
cyberorg: i.e. with the distro taking priority ... i.e. DISTRO/001-foo runs *instead* of common/001-foo
13:54
<dberkholz>
you touch empty files for each file in common you don't want to run
13:54
<vagrantc>
cyberorg: then put empty files with the same filenames
13:54
<cyberorg>
ah ok, thanks
13:55
<vagrantc>
even better than empty files would be files with comments explaining why you don't want them.
13:56
if enough distros override a specific plugin in common, we'll obviously have to reconsider where it belongs at some point
13:56
<cyberorg>
vagrantc, yeah, would make more sense
13:57
is there a list of <options> ltsp-build-client take? --extra-help doesn't list them
13:57
<vagrantc>
cyberorg: almost all of the commandline options are implemented as plugins
13:57
<cyberorg>
vagrantc, i mean the list of $MODE available
13:58
<vagrantc>
cyberorg: ah.
13:58
<cyberorg>
vagrantc, i am trying to convert this in plugins ftp://forgeftp.novell.com/kiwi-ltsp/kiwi-ltsp-diagram.png
13:59
<vagrantc>
cyberorg: look at the load_plugins function in ltsp-build-client, and where it's called
14:00
<cyberorg>
load_plugins 'commandline' - what would be commandline?
14:00
<vagrantc>
cyberorg: looks like commandline configure before-install install after-install finalization
14:00
cyberorg: yes.
14:00
<cyberorg>
just these many?
14:01
you've also got configure)
14:01
<vagrantc>
i think that's it
14:01
<cyberorg>
Debian/000-basic-configuration
14:01
<vagrantc>
cyberorg: and i listed configure above
14:01
<cyberorg>
ah, sorry missed that
14:02
i would be able to whip those up real quick
14:12
what does EXCLUDE do?
14:12
never mind
14:12
<vagrantc>
in debian, it excludes packages from the base file
14:12
er, base install
14:13
<warren>
cyberorg, I install all packages in one go, so I don't use that.
14:13
I also don't use the early/late stuff
14:14
<vagrantc>
right
14:14
<cyberorg>
we have a list of packages and list of packages/files to delete in xml file(like ks)
14:16
<vagrantc>
heh.
14:16
just found a stupid mistake in screen-x-common
14:17
<warren>
vagrantc, oh?
14:18
<vagrantc>
nothing that would actually break anything.
14:18
<warren>
ok
14:18
<vagrantc>
pushed a fix already
14:18
just didn't take advantage of my simple "source ltsp_config fewer times" stuff
14:19
well, actually might have been an issue, but fixed now
14:19
:)
14:25
<warren>
I made a build prior to it
14:25
I should pull and build again?
14:25
it *seems* to work before
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14:28
<cyberorg>
what is difference between 010-set-chroot and 010-set-base?
14:31
<vagrantc>
warren: i think it probably just sourced ltsp_config one more time than it needs to, but there may be unusual corner cases in which it wouldn't source ltsp_config at all
14:32
i think i've gotten it down to sourcing ltsp_config twice rather than 4 or maybe 5 times ...
14:32
at least on debian system
14:32
s
14:37
<ltsppbot>
Someone pasted "elegant way of cleaning $ROOT" (8 lines) at http://pastebot.ltsp.org/483
14:37
<cyberorg>
if [ -d $ROOT ] ; then is handled more gracefully here don't you think?
14:38
that is for common/020-rootpath
14:38
<vagrantc>
cyberorg: but what if that's actively in use already?
14:39
<cyberorg>
vagrantc, that is why mv, so it can be undone
14:39
<vagrantc>
cyberorg: yes, but what if it's ACTIVELY using it
14:40
i.e. freezing someone's terminal because the root filesystem was yanked out from under them
14:40
<cyberorg>
vagrantc, it would be foolish of someone to run ltsp-build-client on a running server, but it is possible
14:41
<vagrantc>
cyberorg: the other way of doing it is to install to a new location ...
14:41
that sounds more safe to me.
14:42
although i think it still might be better to just exit out.
14:42
<cyberorg>
or this already exist, do you want to continue? yes/no "type yes to continue"
14:43
<vagrantc>
i'd rather just error out, i think.
14:44
<cyberorg>
ok, will visit that later :)
14:47
<vagrantc>
what's the real difference between asking to proceed and erroring out (ideally with a useful error message) and having them re-run the command?
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14:55
<cyberorg>
vagrantc, extra time that requires manually moving the ROOT if we really want/is safe to proceed
14:56
<dberkholz>
oh that reminds me
14:56
darn, johnny's not here
14:56
wanted to talk about resume support in ltsp-build-client
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14:57
<vagrantc>
dberkholz: resuming the build?
14:57
<dberkholz>
vagrantc: yeah.
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14:57
<dberkholz>
occasionally it can fail for various reasons, and it's annoying to start from scratch
14:57
<vagrantc>
i sure like binary distributions :)
14:57
<dberkholz>
even in binary
14:57
if you're installing 500 packages, it takes a while
14:57
<vagrantc>
indeed.
14:58
<dberkholz>
when package 440 fails because you need to increase the size of your lvm partition, it sucks
14:58
<vagrantc>
hmmm....
14:58
we could add hooks to on_exit somehow ...
14:59
<dberkholz>
i was thinking of some kind of checkpointing
14:59
does on_exit get called on trapped signals too?
14:59
<vagrantc>
dberkholz: yeah.
14:59
well ... hmmm.
14:59
<dberkholz>
so that would work for pretty much anything but a server crash
15:00
<vagrantc>
i'm not sure i really understand trapping ... but we configure it with a trap to ensure it runs whenever it fails.
15:00
<dberkholz>
how about when i ctrl-c ?
15:00
<vagrantc>
yeah
15:00
i think
15:04
<dberkholz>
vagrantc: hmm, google says yes for bash, no for zsh
15:04
since it always uses bash, should work
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15:10
<cyberorg>
proper suse plugin is on the ML :)
15:11
wasn't as difficult as i imagined it to be
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15:15
<Pascal_1>
hrllo
15:15
hello
15:16
bonsoir !
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15:51
<vagrantc>
cyberorg: i think your --config plugin will get overriden by the ltsp-build-client's handling of that option.
15:54
cyberorg: regarding chroot-tagging ... there's some rationale behind *not* having it distributed in the package, as we wanted a way to detect installing the package on a non-ltsp environment...
15:55
cyberorg: you probably don't need to duplicate set-dist, but rather just set SUSE_VERSION based on the common DIST variable.
15:58
cyberorg: why do you set a default root password ? shouldn't generally be a need for a root password at all, and could be a big security risk.
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16:01
<vagrantc>
cyberorg: nice to see more distro plugin dirs :)
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16:51
<warren>
vagrantc, I realize it was a little early to add the one plugin from cyberorg to trunk, but I think this creates some psychological encouragement for more upstreaming.
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16:59
<warren>
hmm
16:59
is X supposed to restart if you have the wrong password in ldm?
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17:06
<vagrantc>
warren: agreed on the encouragement bit
17:06
warren: well, that's the way it behaves. gadi had patches to change that, but they were comingled with other changes so it was hard to merge.
17:06
warren: (re: x restarting)
17:08
http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~gideon/ltsp/gadi-ldm-trunk/
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18:42
<rjune>
http://www.beautiesltd.com/PRODUCT.ASPX?pn_deptid=6961 <--- thoughts, comments?
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20:01
<jammcq>
!seen sbalneav
20:01
<ltspbot>
jammcq: sbalneav was last seen in #ltsp 1 day, 5 hours, 13 minutes, and 20 seconds ago: <sbalneav> I'm just digging into seeing that it would take to get sshd to run a graphical password changer
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20:34
<vagrantc>
heh. "just"
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22:22
<t-kid>
hellow..
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22:26
<t-kid>
+v
22:27
i wanna ask something
22:28
it just a quick question
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22:43
<|Paradox|>
wow, that was quick
22:43
so quick, I missed it completely
22:59
<MacIver>
and he never did manage to ask his question
22:59
how hard is it to just ask your question?
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