IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 20 March 2008   (all times are UTC)

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00:07
<johnny>
hmm..
00:07
vagrantc, you about?
00:09
<vagrantc>
johnny: yes, but i'd best be getting not about
00:09
<johnny>
?
00:09
leaving?
00:09
<vagrantc>
yeah ... just dropped in to send a couple emails ... and habitually fired up irc :)
00:09
<johnny>
oh.. sorry
00:10
<vagrantc>
something quick ?
00:10
<johnny>
i just wondered where i could see the kernel commandline you pass to the initrd
00:10
<vagrantc>
johnny: egrep -r BOOTPROMPT_OPTS
00:10
in the ltsp sources
00:10
<johnny>
oh.. aha.. i was trying to examine the intramfs..
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02:58
<Pascal_1>
hello
02:58
what is the way to know the version of ldm installed on the server ltsp , i've got to report a bug .is it the ldm in the chroot environment ?
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03:00
<Pascal_1>
when i do a apt-cache show ldm
03:01
in the chroot i've got 2 version of ldm and i dont know wich is installed
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03:26
<Pascal_1>
i made a reportbug but i'm not sure it's clear. someone coulmd told me if it is ? : http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=471793
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03:47
<daduke>
Pascal_1: dpkg --root=/opt/ltsp/i386 -l rdesktop | egrep ^ii show you the installed packages incl. version
03:48
<Pascal_1>
hello daduke !! too late ;-) i made the reportbug vagran told me it was a bug
03:49
<daduke>
tut
03:49
<Pascal_1>
tut ?
03:49
and the problem was the same with the two version
03:49
<daduke>
wrong window focus, sorry ;(
03:49
ah, ok. so it is a bug after all.
03:51
<Pascal_1>
yes i'm sad !!
03:51
<daduke>
why sad? it's a bug, it will be fixed by vagrantc, and everything will be fine.
03:53
<Pascal_1>
ok
03:53
then i'm happy !!! ;-)
03:58
i'm in a hurry
03:58
ltsp is a very good solution
04:00
<daduke>
indeed
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07:51
<ElDios>
hello everyone
07:51
simple question (perhaps)
07:51
is it possible to estimate the average consume per LTSP client ?
07:52
(with basic features)
07:52
bandwidth consume*
07:53
<tarzeau>
ElDios: hm... let's see with iptraf
07:53
<ElDios>
thnx ^_^ tarzeau
07:54
<tarzeau>
ElDios: we've got like 1,5mb/s on our server with 20 clients out... let's see
07:55
<ElDios>
thnx.. meanwhile I'll BRB
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08:10
<Pascal_1>
hello, i've got an other problem i put some action in the .bash_logout of a user, when the user logout from thin client those action are not launched. anybody knows about this ?
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08:12
<laga>
Pascal_1: .bash_logout is probably not used because your users dont use bash..
08:13
<ElDios>
Pascal_1 how do you quit the session?
08:13
<Pascal_1>
i dont really know about the ldm process
08:13
ElDios, in french "clore la session"
08:13
close session
08:14
when a user loggin from a thin client (ldm) and he logout the bash_logout is not read ?
08:14
<ElDios>
it is read when you *close* (nor kill or anything) a bash session
08:15
you should define to run .bash_logout when the session is closed
08:15
the ltsp session is closed :)
08:16
tarzeau any results?
08:16
<tarzeau>
ElDios: well 14 users logged in, 1,5mb, about 100kb/client
08:17
ElDios: but when the soccer games start, they'll all be watching it, i guess it'll need about 1mb/client then
08:17
but even that is no problem, since our server has gbit, and the clients 100mbit (making 10mb/s)
08:18
the cpu load is low too, as well as the memory usage
08:18
<ElDios>
110kbit/client is not that low
08:18
<tarzeau>
no?
08:18
<ElDios>
I mean.. think about using it over VPN!
08:18
<tarzeau>
kbyte, not kbit
08:19
where do you live?
08:19
<ElDios>
even worse :)
08:19
near Milan
08:19
<tarzeau>
istanbul? anal internet?
08:19
<ElDios>
:)
08:19
ahhh
08:19
ahah
08:19
nono that's not so bad
08:19
<tarzeau>
heck even they got the cableshitinternet now
08:19
<ElDios>
the problem isn't the download band
08:19
<tarzeau>
yes it used to be, when you run traceroute to www.superonline.com.tr
08:19
<ElDios>
it's the upload side
08:19
<tarzeau>
you either had timeouts or minimum of 500ms
08:20
how's that the problem? i was giving you the details of input/output, not just download or just upload
08:20
the clients usually download more than they upload
08:20
since the clients are the displays
08:20
and they show stuff
08:20
and X sucks, since it's not display postscript
08:20
<ElDios>
yep
08:20
<tarzeau>
daduke: do we use compressed remote x sessions or not?
08:20
<ElDios>
so the server must have an high bandwidth
08:21
<tarzeau>
ElDios: it all depends what the clients exactly do
08:21
<ElDios>
mainly office work
08:21
<tarzeau>
some x software sucks horrbily, if you just run some textmode programs in some terminals... it's all different
08:22
well firefox with animated web and openoffice suck for these things
08:22
can you define office work? here that's writing latex documents in something like emacs
08:22
<daduke>
tarzeau: we use an ssh tunnel for X traffic
08:22
<tarzeau>
which works very good on those clients
08:22
daduke: with or without -C ?
08:22
<ElDios>
tarzeau openoffice, and firefox should be fine
08:23
<tarzeau>
no firefox sucks if used remotely
08:24
actually, firefox sucks. (no matter how)
08:25
<ElDios>
ahah :)
08:25
so what graphical browser would you suggest?
08:26
<daduke>
tarzeau: w/o.
08:26
<tarzeau>
personally? i use links2 -g and the old thing on my old openstep box
08:26
ElDios: http://gnu.ethz.ch/www.levenez.com/theinternet.jpg
08:26
<daduke>
tarzeau: links2 has what? -4234 points in acid3?
08:27
<tarzeau>
i don't care how shabby it looks, i care about the graphics and letters
08:27
<ElDios>
mmm.. oke
08:27
<tarzeau>
there's a saying:
08:27
"One could say that GNUstep is a very nice woman, but without proper make-up and with a shabby dress. Although the expert eye could see the star sparkle, the average person maybe would prefer a more normal female with choosen make-up and dress."
08:28
<ElDios>
what about eclipse? anyone ever tried?
08:28
<tarzeau>
eclipse? the people who tried it here switched back to emacs
08:28
(the ones that i know, since i had to package that crap for them, since it was too hard for them to install themselves)
08:28
<daduke>
tarzeau: it's nice for Java development
08:28
<ElDios>
I was speaking again of the bandwidth consume
08:28
<tarzeau>
i'm glad i don't need to do java development then
08:28
<ElDios>
^_^
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08:34* warren thought of a way around needing DNS
08:34* warren silent.wav!
08:34
<Gadi>
lol
08:35* Gadi missed the joke but still laughs at the punchline :)
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09:53
<cyberorg>
the evil one?
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10:01
<Pascal_1>
is there a way to execute command when user disconnect from ldm ?
10:01
<warren>
like whta?
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10:03
<Pascal_1>
warren, ??
10:05
<mnemoc>
Pascal_1: what do you want to execute?
10:05
<Pascal_1>
hmm for example my problem to umount samba share at logout
10:06
actually it seems there is a bug concerning ldm/pam which make that i cant do it with pam_mount
10:06
mnemoc, it's an example
10:11
<mnemoc>
Pascal_1: i was just translating warren's question :-) wait for his comments :)
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10:15
<warren>
hmm
10:15
<ogra_cmpc>
hmm?
10:15
<warren>
The latest changes to ldm break its build
10:15
gcc -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -I. -I.. -I/usr/include/glib-2.0 -I/usr/lib64/glib-2.0/include -I/usr/include/glib-2.0 -I/usr/lib64/glib-2.0/include -DRC_DIR=\""/usr/share/ldm"\" -DLDM_EXEC_DIR=\""/usr/libexec/ldm"\" -O2 -g -pipe -Wall -Wp,-D_FORTIFY_SOURCE=2 -fexceptions -fstack-protector --param=ssp-buffer-size=4 -m64 -mtune=generic -MT sshutils.o -MD -MP -MF .deps/sshutils.Tpo -c -o sshutils.o sshutils.c
10:15
ldm-getenv-bool.c: In function 'ldm_getenv_bool':
10:15
ldm-getenv-bool.c:16: error: 'TRUE' undeclared (first use in this function)
10:16
<mnemoc>
why not using stdbool.h?
10:16
<warren>
a bunch of includes were removed
10:17
anyone know what version of gcc vagrant is using?
10:17
<mnemoc>
i mean, stdbool.h exports true, not TRUE
10:17
<warren>
this might be a bug exposed by gcc's reduced includes
10:17
gcc-4.3 that is
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10:17
<ogra_cmpc>
i'm having 4.2.3-2ubuntu1
10:18
so its unlikely vagrantc uses something newer
10:18
<vagrantc>
??
10:18
<ogra_cmpc>
speaking of the devil
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10:18
<ogra_cmpc>
vagrantc, gcc
10:18
<warren>
vagrantc, what version of gcc are you using?
10:18
vagrantc, you broke ldm build! =)
10:19
<Pascal_1>
hello vagrantc !
10:19
have you seen my reportbug? is it clear ?
10:20
<ltsppbot>
Someone pasted "Executing(%prep): /bin/sh -e /" (173 lines) at http://pastebot.ltsp.org/480
10:20
<warren>
vagrantc, http://pastebot.ltsp.org/480
10:20
vagrantc, I'm wondering what version of gcc you are using because it matters in this case.
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10:21
<ogra_cmpc>
i dont think it matters, to that looks like there was one header to much dropped
10:21
s/to/to me
10:22
<warren>
I'm assuming he actually tested it before checking in? =)(
10:22
<Pascal_1>
warren, any idea for my question ?
10:22
<warren>
Pascal_1, sorry no
10:24
<vagrantc>
warren: well, i built it with a version of gcc that was recently in debian unstable ...
10:24
but it's recently transitioned
10:24
<warren>
any idea what include is missing?
10:24
<ogra_cmpc>
the one that gives you TRUE
10:25
<vagrantc>
i applied the patch from scottie's branch for the headers
10:25
ah!
10:25
i didn't apply that part of the patch
10:25
<ogra_cmpc>
TRUE is used in ldm.c
10:25
so it must be one of these
10:25
<vagrantc>
TRUE is used in ldm_getenv_bool.c
10:25* warren waits
10:25
<ogra_cmpc>
vagrantc, yes, thats where it fails :)
10:25
<vagrantc>
scotty had switched it from TRUE -> 1 and FALSE -> 0 ... but i guess i didn't test that
10:25
<warren>
vagrantc, did you test scottie's paste for the xauth fix?
10:26
<vagrantc>
warren: no, haven't had a chance
10:26
<ogra_cmpc>
vagrantc, the other code uses TRUE without prob
10:26
so there must be a header thet introduces it
10:26
<vagrantc>
hope so
10:26
<ogra_cmpc>
we should rather stay consistent
10:26
<vagrantc>
as TRUE FALSE is much clearer than 0 1
10:27
especially when switching between shell and C
10:27
worst case is patch it to use 1 or 0
10:27* ogra_cmpc tries to remember the name of the package containing the header manpages
10:28
<ogra_cmpc>
ah, manpages-dev
10:28
<vagrantc>
ok. really. i won't check things in without testing them anymore. i promise.
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10:29
<vagrantc>
ogra_cmpc: i'll be sharing a continent with you for the first week of april ...
10:30
<ogra_cmpc>
oh, nice, where do you go ?
10:31
<vagrantc>
ogra_cmpc: extremadura, spain
10:31
<ogra_cmpc>
ah, nice
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10:34
<vagrantc>
Pascal_1: yes, your bug report is good enough.
10:34
<Pascal_1>
ok thanks
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10:34
<vagrantc>
Pascal_1: would be nice to get a snippet from your auth log of what a normal ssh session looks like and what an ldm login looks like.
10:34
<Pascal_1>
hmmhow i do that ?
10:34
mail on the bug to add
10:34
?
10:35
<vagrantc>
Pascal_1: email 471793@bugs.debian.org
10:35
<Pascal_1>
in the body i put only the logs ? nothing in subject ?
10:36
<ogra_cmpc>
vagrantc, you need types.h i think
10:36
<cesar_bo>
Hi all, I had a ltsp network running pretty well, I want to enable a printer for a few clients, and fallow the documentation, adding the lines PRINTER_0_DEVICE=/dev/lp0, on the default head on the lts.conf file of the client /opt/ltsp/i386, but it doesn't work.
10:36
<vagrantc>
Pascal_1: well, put something meaningful in the subject and body just like you would a normal email ...
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10:37
<vagrantc>
ogra_cmpc: well, we all need types.h, then :)
10:37
<Pascal_1>
i put the logs in the body
10:37
?
10:37
<ogra_cmpc>
vagrantc, wasnt my patch :P
10:38
<vagrantc>
Pascal_1: just cut the part of the logs and comment on them ... like ... this is what a normal ssh login looks like: ... lines from auth.log ... this is what an ldm login looks like: ... lines from auth.log ...
10:39
ogra_cmpc: wasn't my fix, either :)
10:39
ogra_cmpc: but if you'd rather i test and commit it, i will.
10:40
one of these days, i'm going to do a bug reporting class at freegeek :)
10:40
<ogra_cmpc>
vagrantc, i dont even have that new code here yet
10:41
<vagrantc>
ogra_cmpc: i'll test it ...
10:42
<warren>
vagrantc, so wait, did you find a fix for this?
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10:42
<vagrantc>
warren: ogra_cmpc suggested to add types.h
10:42
<ogra_cmpc>
sys/types.h actually
10:43
<vagrantc>
warren: i can try and build a package to test
10:43
warren: unless you want to ...
10:43
<warren>
I can do it
10:43
which is the preferred file to add the include?
10:43
<vagrantc>
or we can race :)
10:44
<ogra_cmpc>
warren, ldm-getenv-bool.c needs to know about TRUE and FALSE
10:44
so add it there
10:47
<warren>
Has anyone tested scottie's paste for the xauth issue?
10:47
<vagrantc>
i *think* it's dependent on other things being functional
10:47
but i haven't tested it
10:47
<warren>
like what?
10:47
<vagrantc>
like ldm generating the xauth files
10:47
<warren>
X called with our options creates /root/.Xauthority ?
10:48
vagrantc, his script isn't one of the rc.d scripts that happens after ldm is running?
10:48
<vagrantc>
warren: it is one of the rc.d scripts
10:48* warren suspects that it will just work
10:48
<vagrantc>
/root/.Xauthority is produced, but i don't think it contains anything
10:48* warren tries it
10:49
<warren>
does it need to contain anything?
10:49
<vagrantc>
looking at scotties patch, i think so
10:49
if you want to just go ahead and test it rather than question my thoughts on the matter, please do.
10:49
<warren>
I'll figure out what's needed today
10:49
<vagrantc>
i could be wrong, but i figured i'd give a heads up
10:49
<warren>
you are likely right
10:50
<vagrantc>
it also may be the case that it works for LDM_DIRECTX=true, but breaks LDM_DIRECTX=false
10:50
<warren>
heh
10:50
btw where am I supposed to define LDM_DIRECTX=true?
10:51* vagrantc wonders what warren has been smoking
10:51
<vagrantc>
:)
10:51
same place we define most all ltsp configuration options ... lts.conf
10:51
<warren>
so like, within the [default] block?
10:52
<vagrantc>
that will enable it for all thin clients ...
10:52
and within a client-specific block will enable it for ... that client
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10:56
<warren>
thanks
10:57
ogra_cmpc, ldm-getenv-bool.c alone wasn't good enough
10:57
<ogra_cmpc>
oh
10:59
warren,
10:59
#define TRUE 1
10:59
#define FALSE 0
10:59
put that at the top
11:00* mnemoc wonders why don't you use POSIX's stdbool.h
11:00
<vagrantc>
warren: are you saying you still got an undefined error for TRUE/FALSE, or you encountered additional errors?
11:01
mnemoc: patches accepted
11:01
presuming, of course, they improve things :)
11:01
<ogra_cmpc>
mnemoc, because all the rest of the code uses TRUE, not true
11:01
mnemoc, nobody will refuse a patch that fixes it everywhere though
11:02
<mnemoc>
ogra_cmpc: ok, i'll try to send it today
11:03
<vagrantc>
warren: definitely fixes the TRUE/FALSE build error.
11:03
warren: but another patch of mine appears to be breaking.
11:04
warren: well, at least fixes it for me.
11:05
or maybe not.
11:05
i don't get the TRUE/FALSE warnings even without adding sys/types.h
11:06
<ogra_cmpc>
weird
11:06
<vagrantc>
i do get: ldm.c:477: error: too few arguments to function 'launch_x'
11:06
which is clearly from my patches
11:06
as i added arguments to launch_x ...
11:07
but i tested those patches before ...
11:08
i am very confused.
11:09
i must have screwed up in the merge, as it's present in my original branch
11:09
warren: using gcc 4.2.3 today
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11:13
<vagrantc>
ah, now i get TRUE/FALSE errors.
11:13
sys/types.h doesn't fix it ...
11:13
<ogra_cmpc>
put a define line in for each ... mapping them to 0 and 1
11:14
and forget about the header
11:14
<vagrantc>
define TRUE 1
11:14
??
11:14
<ogra_cmpc>
with a hash in front
11:14
#define TRUE 1
11:14
#define FALSE 0
11:15
<vagrantc>
looks promising
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11:16
<vagrantc>
ok, it builds ...
11:17
could just revert the patch wholesale.
11:17
we'll get it when scotty fixes everything :)
11:19
<ogra_cmpc>
i think he glib-ified everything in his branch ... so its likely things like false/true might come from glib
11:19
<vagrantc>
ogra_cmpc: he used 1 and 0
11:19
<ogra_cmpc>
heh
11:19
even better saves you a header or define completely
11:20
<vagrantc>
actually, glib stuff was pulled out
11:20
ogra_cmpc: and is totally unreadable, in my opinion
11:20
<ogra_cmpc>
oh, why is that ?
11:20
<vagrantc>
well, glib includes were pulled out
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11:21
<ogra_cmpc>
but glib cares for all the security issues, its way easier to program without introducing buffer overflows or leaks with glib
11:22
and it has all teh nifty utf8 handling already built in so translating is a charm
11:22
<vagrantc>
with the amount of shell programming i'm doing, defining TRUE/FALSE and using those in the code is way more likely to not create broken code than having to mentally think through what is true and what is false.
11:22
if there's something else that is not 1 and 0, i'm all for it.
11:22
but give me anything other than 1 and 0 to define true/false.
11:23
<ogra_cmpc>
well, its two lines per .c file to add TRUE/FALSE
11:23
then you cqan use both ;)
11:23
<vagrantc>
two very worthwhile lines :P
11:24slashdot1x has left #ltsp
11:30* vagrantc tries re-introducing the includes one at a time
11:30
<vagrantc>
glib-object.h
11:35
and i foudn the other error ...
11:35elisboa has quit IRC
11:35elisboa has joined #ltsp
11:35
<vagrantc>
pushing changes now ...
11:40joebake1 has joined #ltsp
11:42
<warren>
How did it build without that inclue?
11:42
<vagrantc>
it didn't
11:43
two things happend ...
11:43
two unrelated commits i made broke in different ways
11:44
i had thoguht you were referring to the first one when i said i tested it ... hwoever, i had only tested the branch, i didn't actually test that my merge was legit ...
11:44
i never tested the TRUE/FALSE related patches
11:44abadger1999 has joined #ltsp
11:44
<vagrantc>
sorry about all that.
11:46
urg.
11:46
pascal didn't really understand what i meant when i said only the parts of the log that were relvent...
11:48
warren: working for you now?
11:49mccann has joined #ltsp
12:02
<warren>
vagrantc, yes, builds now, thanks.
12:03
<vagrantc>
warren: again, sorry about all that. i will be more thorough in the future.
12:03
<warren>
vagrantc, np, I'm very appreciative of your work.
12:06
<ogra_cmpc>
vagrantc, as long as you dont do it on a released branch in the future :)
12:06
trunk is in flux anyway ...
12:06
so breakage can always happen
12:06* warren tests the current ldm-trunk
12:11* vagrantc tests it too
12:16tux_440volt has joined #ltsp
12:19milesd has joined #ltsp
12:24
<warren>
wow, directx is so much faster
12:24* warren hasn't used it in a while.
12:34elisboa has quit IRC
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12:37
<xcasex>
vagrantc: btw, problem solved after using your packages btw
12:40
<vagrantc>
xcasex: cool. they're in debian sid now.
12:41
<xcasex>
excellent :)
12:43
<warren>
vagrantc, what package normally installs the rc.d directory?
12:43* warren is missing it entirely
12:44
<ogra_cmpc>
ldm should
12:45
<vagrantc>
no it doesn't anymore
12:45
<ogra_cmpc>
(not sure it does though, i never install it without ltspfs which uses teh dir as well)
12:45
vagrantc, well, it should :) even if the dir is empty
12:45
<warren>
Oh I see, it creates an empty directory
12:45
<vagrantc>
when we moved the ltspfs specific plugins to ltspfs, then those create it
12:45
ogra_cmpc: will result in extra filesystem calls if ltspfs isn't installed
12:46
<ogra_cmpc>
hrm
12:46
<vagrantc>
but if scotty's xauth plugin works, then it'll be included and that's that.
12:46
<warren>
vagrantc, using scotie's ldm xauth solution rc.d would be needed
12:46elisboa has quit IRC
12:46
<ogra_cmpc>
yeah, its cleaner to have it there
12:47* vagrantc doesn't see the cleanliness of having unused directories installed
12:47
<ogra_cmpc>
locate ldm would return it for example
12:47
<vagrantc>
warren: and when we use scotty's xauth code we'll include it
12:47
<ogra_cmpc>
it makes it easier for admins
12:48
<warren>
when are hte rc.d scripts run?
12:48
concurrently with ldm greeter?
12:48
or upon ssh login?
12:48
<vagrantc>
warren: at login time
12:48
<ogra_cmpc>
sfter the session is estab;lished
12:48
<warren>
isn't that racy then?
12:48
<vagrantc>
warren: it's very linear
12:48
<ogra_cmpc>
ther are two ssh calls atm
12:48
<warren>
"Hey server, send the X display to this address."
12:48
"oops, I'm not allowing you yet."
12:48
"now I am"
12:48
<vagrantc>
oh
12:48
that
12:48ElDios has quit IRC
12:49
<ogra_cmpc>
the first one does the ground work and gets the socket and tunnel up, the second starts the X session
12:49* warren reads
12:49
<ogra_cmpc>
rc scripts are executed before the second one
12:49
<vagrantc>
ogra_cmpc: is the second called before or after rc.d ?
12:49
<warren>
ok
12:49
<ogra_cmpc>
at least it was like that in the beginning
12:49
when they were new
12:50elisboa has joined #ltsp
12:50* ogra_cmpc wonders how one is supposed to have CK authentication with a regular startx session ...
12:51Guaraldo has quit IRC
12:51
<ogra_cmpc>
warren, do you know if fedora has a fix for that ?
12:51
(not talking about ltsp startx here)
12:51Guaraldo has joined #ltsp
12:51
<ogra_cmpc>
apparently CK only works with display managers ...
12:52
so running startx manually leaves you screwed
12:54
<warren>
ogra_cmpc, AFAIK that's still broken here
12:54
<ogra_cmpc>
ah
12:54
many users will complain
12:55
<warren>
I know =(
12:55
<ogra_cmpc>
(i dont se a fix at the horizon, so its likely to stay like that in ubuntu)
12:55
oh, and you even release earlier
12:55
<warren>
I know =(
12:55
this pressure is pretty bad
12:55
I'm spending more time fixing regular distro things than LTSP
12:56
<ogra_cmpc>
you get used to it over time :)
12:56* ogra_cmpc works on that schedule since three years now
13:02DonSilver has joined #ltsp
13:04
<warren>
ogra_cmpc, without CK authentication what drawbacks do you have?
13:10
<ogra_cmpc>
none of the admin tools work
13:11
<warren>
oh
13:11
=(
13:11
ogra_cmpc, but remote sound and ltspfs still works?
13:14spectra has joined #ltsp
13:18abadger1999 has quit IRC
13:20
<ogra_cmpc>
indeed
13:20
both isnt bound to CK
13:20
the gnome tools are lately
13:20
<warren>
Oh, I see.
13:21
<ogra_cmpc>
they work with sudo though from the commandline
13:21
but thats rather suboptimal
13:28tux_440volt has quit IRC
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13:36
<warren>
ogra_cmpc, I was just told about a patch for openssh for CK from Ubuntu
13:36
ogra_cmpc, does Ubuntu already ship that patch?
13:37
<ogra_cmpc>
yes, but it doesnt solve the prob ...
13:37
non local sessions dont get admin rights at all
13:38tux_440volt has quit IRC
13:38
<ogra_cmpc>
i will look again into that over easter and hope to get it fioxed, i'll mail you the patches then
13:41
<vagrantc>
ogra_cmpc: this CK stuff is in hardy already?
13:42
<ogra_cmpc>
sadly, yes
13:42
its immature imho ... but the upstream tools all switched over
13:42slipttees has joined #ltsp
13:42
<ogra_cmpc>
so no choice
13:43
<slipttees>
ltsp 5 crap ltsp 4.2 forever
13:43
<vagrantc>
ok, now we're only waiting on hppa and mips builds for ldm/ltsp :)
13:44
<laga>
slipttees: maybe we can arrange a refund?
13:44* Guaraldo prepared a new LTSP5 server
13:44
<laga>
contact the sales dpt
13:44Pascal_1 has joined #ltsp
13:44* vagrantc posts a "Do not feed the troll" sign
13:44
<Guaraldo>
vagrantc: How can I change the LDM theme (preparing a custom theme)?
13:45
<laga>
vagrantc: not even with sarcasm? :/
13:46
<vagrantc>
Guaraldo: use update-alternatives in the chroot ...
13:46
Guaraldo: chroot /opt/ltsp/i386 update-alternatives --config ldm-theme
13:46
Guaraldo: and install your theme into /opt/ltsp/i386/usr/share/ldm/themes/FOO
13:46
<slipttees>
laga: it funny!
13:47
<Guaraldo>
vagrantc: thanks
13:47
<vagrantc>
Guaraldo: with the latest LDM, you can just specify LDM_THEME in lts.conf
13:47
but i don't think that's in gutsy ... not sure about hardy
13:47
<slipttees>
laga: why ltsp 5 automatically ?
13:48dtrask has quit IRC
13:49
<Guaraldo>
I'm using Gutsy
13:49
LTSP5 server structured today!
13:49
<vagrantc>
cool :)
13:50* warren doesn't see where rc.d happens between two ssh commands
13:52
<warren>
oh
13:52
I'm blind
13:54
<Guaraldo>
vagrantc: My LDM theme doesn't apears on update-alternatives --config ldm-theme
13:54
<vagrantc>
Guaraldo: oh, yes ... you'll have to use update-alternatives --install ...
13:55
Guaraldo: look in $chroot/var/lib/dpkg/info/ldm.postinst for an example of how to use it
13:57joebake1 has quit IRC
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13:58
<Guaraldo>
vagrantc: Do I need to rebuild image???
13:58
<vagrantc>
Guaraldo: any time you modify anything in the chroot you need to rebuild it, yes.
14:08elisboa has quit IRC
14:12Pascal_1 has quit IRC
14:13
<warren>
sbalneav, around?
14:24
vagrantc, do you have hexdump installed?
14:24
/usr/bin/hexdump
14:24
it is from our util-linux-ng which I"m assuming is also in util-linux
14:25
<vagrantc>
it's installed
14:25
part of debian's bsdmainutils package ... which is *usually* installed on debian, but it's possible to have an install without it.
14:25
<warren>
ok
14:25
<vagrantc>
warren: what do you need it for?
14:25
<warren>
I figured out how to create a proper xauthority file before X
14:25
hexdump is part of it
14:26
<vagrantc>
ah, ok.
14:26
<warren>
i'll test this out and see how it goes
14:26
<vagrantc>
it'd be nice to get that fixed properly.
14:26
<warren>
would be nice if there were a way to launch a xterm *on the client itself*
14:27
<Guaraldo>
vagrantc: It worked... My boss has got very impressed... :-D
14:27
vagrantc: Thanks...
14:27
<vagrantc>
i've often thought it would be nice to launch a local xterm when doing ldm debugging, rather than having to set up a screen script for it
14:27
Guaraldo: of course! :)
14:28
"LTSP: we'll impress your boss"
14:28
it's practically our motto.
14:28
<Guaraldo>
vagrantc: Nice slogan!
14:28
vagrantc: Ops... Nice motto!
14:28
<vagrantc>
heh
14:29
<warren>
xserverauthfile=$HOME/.serverauth.$$
14:29
what does the $$ do?
14:29
<vagrantc>
it's the current PID
14:30
<warren>
ah
14:30
<Guaraldo>
vagrantc: on the lower right corner of the LDM greeter must be the server name or the station name?
14:30
<vagrantc>
Guaraldo: the thin client name
14:31
<Guaraldo>
vagrantc: From where does it take it?
14:31
DNS?
14:31
<vagrantc>
Guaraldo: if available. if not, it may just set it to "ltsp"
14:31
<warren>
ok, initial implementation of this will NOT work with more than one X server
14:33
<vagrantc>
i think we can live with that.
14:33
especially if we do something like: /var/run/ldm/serverauth ...
14:34
well ... server_vtN_authfile ...
14:34
but just get *something* working before we hash out the details :)
14:34
<warren>
yes
14:34
<vagrantc>
and thanks for giving it a go :)
14:36
<warren>
no idea if this will work
14:36
i'm confused between server and client auth files
14:36
<vagrantc>
yeah, that confused the hell out of me
14:36
<warren>
there is a difference?
14:36
=(
14:37
<vagrantc>
heck if i know
14:37* vagrantc is still confused, or this stuff would've been fixed already
14:38
<warren>
one part of it is:
14:38
mcookie=`dd if=/dev/random bs=16 count=1 2>/dev/null | hexdump -e \\"%08x\\"`
14:38
we used to have a /usr/bin/mcookie binary to do this
14:38
<vagrantc>
used to ?
14:39
<warren>
F8 had /usr/bin/mcookie
14:39
F9 uses the above
14:40
<vagrantc>
eeyk.
14:40
warren: do you know why F9 dropped it?
14:41
<warren>
vagrantc, one less binary is a good thing
14:41
vagrantc, looks like it was dropped in upstream X
14:41
we just copied it
14:41
<vagrantc>
ah.
14:42
so now, instead of calling mcookie ... we just duplicate that code everywhere ?
14:43
<warren>
vagrantc, OTOH it has the same functionality based upon existing components
14:43abadger1999 has joined #ltsp
14:43
<warren>
vagrantc, I wonder, TeacherTool or something that allows the teacher to spy on user sessions
14:44
vagrantc, how the heck did that work?
14:44
vagrantc, did it rely on -ac? =)
14:46
<vagrantc>
i'm having some weird behavior with ldm-trunk ...
14:46
sometimes it accepts my password and logs in ... and sometimes it takes the password, logs in remotely, and then keeps respawning X for a bit.
14:47
and it's probably related to my patches ....
14:47
better clean up my own messes
14:52
<ogra_cmpc>
warren, italc
14:52
<warren>
?
14:52
<ogra_cmpc>
http://italc.sourceforge.net/
14:53
italc runs a vnc server as the user ... and uses ssl to authenticate connections from the master
14:54
warren, it was recently fixed to work with ltsp5 (thanks to stgraber who did most of that directly with upstream)
14:55
<warren>
ogra_cmpc, ok, that makes sense now.
14:55
glad to hear something isn't taking advantage of -ac =)
14:55
<ogra_cmpc>
while i still dont like the ui its the by far most functional tool for classroom management
15:01abadger1999 has quit IRC
15:04
<vagrantc>
ah, ldm isn't setting the defaults with "-br -noreset" and such since my patches ... right.
15:04
needs to be set in the screen script, i think.
15:04
or hardcoded...
15:08
<warren>
-br -noreset does what?
15:08
-noreset isn't actually doing anything
15:08
or didn't seem to last I tested
15:10
-noreset seems counter productive to me actually
15:10
if it did do anything
15:10
<vagrantc>
i think -noreset is what prevents it from doing the crazy stuff i was just seeing
15:10cliebow_ has quit IRC
15:10
<vagrantc>
-br just sets the background to black instead of the grey x thatching
15:11
<ogra_cmpc>
yeah, dont drop that
15:11
<warren>
was -noreset removed from trunk?
15:11
OH!
15:11
<Guaraldo>
vagrantc: It's not working...
15:11
<vagrantc>
warren: sort of
15:11
<warren>
vagrantc, X wont have any clients connected for a split second at first
15:11
vagrantc, which is different from other ways X is used
15:11
<Guaraldo>
vagrantc: lower right is only ltsp...
15:12
<warren>
-noreset prevents X from killing itself
15:12
<vagrantc>
yeah.
15:12
please leave it in.
15:12
<warren>
makes sense now
15:12
<Guaraldo>
DNS is available...
15:13
<vagrantc>
Guaraldo: might be some flawed assumptions in the initramfs-tools script which sets the hostname to ltsp if no other hostname is defined.
15:13slipttees has quit IRC
15:13
<ogra_cmpc>
Guaraldo, how about setting them in dhcpd.conf ?
15:13
<vagrantc>
Guaraldo: sbalneav said he tested it
15:13
<ogra_cmpc>
vagrantc, i.m not sure it does a dns lookup
15:13
but dhcp names should work
15:13
<vagrantc>
ogra_cmpc: i'm not sure how it gets the hostname in the initramfs phase
15:14
<Guaraldo>
ogra_cmpc: To near 1000 stations?
15:14
<ogra_cmpc>
dhcp sends it if it has it
15:14
<vagrantc>
Guaraldo: you could also tweak /etc/hostname at boot with a little init script
15:15
<Guaraldo>
vagrantc: I'll try...
15:15
<vagrantc>
or from the initramfs ...
15:15slipttees has joined #ltsp
15:15
<vagrantc>
if you have some predictable ip to hostname mapping ...
15:15
that's what we do at freegeek to avoid setting up dns :)
15:16
<ogra_cmpc>
there is nothing that could do a lookup in intramfs by default i think
15:17
<vagrantc>
should i just rip out the setting default xserver arguments from within ldm and leave it to the screen script?
15:18
<ogra_cmpc>
well
15:19
can we probably store them more centralized ?
15:19
<vagrantc>
found another bug, too ...
15:19
<ogra_cmpc>
i would love to not hurt my eyes with the default X pattern on startx as well for example
15:19
<vagrantc>
well, with the patch i applied ... ldm passes all arguments beyondd the first two to the server
15:20
<ogra_cmpc>
things like -br and -noreset should got into a central file we source from the screen script
15:20
<vagrantc>
and if ldm has 3+ arguments, it doesn't set the defaults.
15:20abadger1999 has joined #ltsp
15:20
<vagrantc>
ogra_cmpc: we can put it in lts.conf, and set if if not defined in the screen script.
15:20
<ogra_cmpc>
nah
15:20
<warren>
put what?
15:20
<vagrantc>
the default xserver arguments
15:20
<ogra_cmpc>
i just want something common between the screen scripts
15:21indradg__ has joined #ltsp
15:21
<vagrantc>
agreed.
15:21
<ogra_cmpc>
no extra lts.conf option
15:21
<vagrantc>
well, i don't think we can get rid of it entirely.
15:21
bbut i do believe we can make some common code sourced by all screen scripts
15:21
<warren>
-br and -noreset should always be used
15:21
ldm wont work without -noreset
15:22
<vagrantc>
warren: even with xdmcp ?
15:22
<warren>
oh
15:22
<vagrantc>
even with rdesktop ?
15:22
<ogra_cmpc>
and br is just friendly to our users
15:22
<warren>
with xdmcp you want -terminate instead of -no-reset
15:22
<vagrantc>
indeed.
15:22
<warren>
rdesktop I don't know how it works yet
15:22
<ogra_cmpc>
hmm, so only -br is common yet
15:22
<vagrantc>
right...
15:23
<ogra_cmpc>
well, that doesnt justifythe effort
15:23
<vagrantc>
what effort?
15:23
<ogra_cmpc>
to have it separated
15:23
<vagrantc>
yes, but -depth and -fp (i know you love it) and some of the others are possibly common as well.
15:23
<ogra_cmpc>
i tought we had some more common options to chare
15:23
<vagrantc>
but need to be set conditionally.
15:24
and i think we should handle X_CONF from there
15:24
<ogra_cmpc>
well, did you ever look ate configure-x.sh ?
15:24
XFT_SERVER is directed to /dev/null
15:24
<vagrantc>
not only have i looked at it, i've patched it :P
15:24
<ogra_cmpc>
(scotts change, not mine )
15:24
but i fully agree with the decision
15:25
xft simply makes it obsolete
15:25
<vagrantc>
i want to support arbitrary X server options and implement common code across all screen scripts, and exactly which options are common i don't really care.
15:25
but there's more than 1.
15:25
<ogra_cmpc>
good
15:25
<vagrantc>
and it's a trivial amount of code.
15:25
and i will do it.
15:26
in the meantime, i will just fix ldm-trunk to work.
15:32
well, we could just keep "-br" hard-coded ...
15:32
i guess -noreset too ...
15:38slipttees has quit IRC
15:40indradg_ has quit IRC
15:40
<vagrantc>
ok, fixed a bug in the screen script and just went ahead and always add -br and -noreset ... (and -ac with LDM_DIRECTX)
15:41
this time i at least tested that it built :)
15:42
<ogra_cmpc>
so the options are now all in the screen script ?
15:42
<vagrantc>
no
15:43
<ogra_cmpc>
hmm
15:43
<vagrantc>
"-br" and "-noreset" are hard-coded.
15:43
and "-ac" *cringe*
15:43
but other options all are
15:43
<ogra_cmpc>
i wonder what X says if it gets i.e. -noreset from the commandline as well
15:43
i.e. if an admion plays with the options and doesnt know about the internal valuies we set
15:44
<warren>
it uses the last one
15:44
-reset is default
15:44
<ogra_cmpc>
i would expect it to handle that but who knows, its X
15:44
<vagrantc>
i think it uses the last one, but i'll experiment
15:44
<warren>
-noreset and -terminate are other options
15:44
If ldm were written properly we wouldn't need -noreset
15:44
<ogra_cmpc>
bah
15:45
<vagrantc>
all the more reason to keep it in ldm.c, then
15:45
<warren>
keep -noreset and -br in ldm
15:45
until ldm doesn't need -noreset anymore
15:45
<ogra_cmpc>
warren, its not worse than gdm
15:45
<warren>
but I see no reason to want anything else than -br
15:45
<vagrantc>
warren: already done.
15:46Guaraldo has left #ltsp
15:59indradg_ has joined #ltsp
16:04
<warren>
ok, my xauth attempt didn't work
16:04
i'm seriously confused
16:04
<vagrantc>
that's what xauth is for
16:04
if it was clear an straightforward it would be easy to get haXz0r3d
16:05
<warren>
you need both a client and server side xauth file
16:05
<vagrantc>
and they can't be the same?
16:05
<warren>
well
16:06
<vagrantc>
and of course, we add the wonders of client/server terminology confusion to the mix ...
16:09
<ltsppbot>
"vagrantc" pasted "dpkg-shlibdeps issues" (11 lines) at http://pastebot.ltsp.org/481
16:09
<vagrantc>
any ideas what those messages are about ?
16:09
i get them whenever building ldm on sid ...
16:10milesd has quit IRC
16:11
<xcasex>
this is probably stupid. all nub questions are. where do i flick the switch for enabling gdm instead of ldm?
16:11
<vagrantc>
xcasex: you want to use gdm on the server, or locally ?
16:11
<xcasex>
on the server.
16:11
<vagrantc>
xcasex: install gdm on the server and configure it to do XDMCP ...
16:11* warren wonders what scott meant by /tmp/foople
16:11
<xcasex>
that straightforward?
16:12
<warren>
OH!
16:12
<vagrantc>
xcasex: set SCREEN_07=xdmcp
16:12
<warren>
/tmp/foople is only logging
16:12
<vagrantc>
xcasex: why do you want to use gdm ?
16:12
<xcasex>
vagrantc: remind me to get you beer somehow :)
16:12
vagrantc: technical or aesthetic reason?
16:12
<vagrantc>
xcasex: if it's for performance reasons ... you could probably use LDM_DIRECTX
16:12
<xcasex>
:D
16:12
<vagrantc>
xcasex: well, using xdmcp means that local devices and remote sound won't work out of the box
16:12
<xcasex>
i have already flipped that :)
16:12
ugh
16:13
theme hacking it is then
16:13
<vagrantc>
heh
16:13
<warren>
PROTOCOL=$(xauth list | awk '{print $2}')
16:13
KEY=$(xauth list | awk '{print $3}')
16:13
this part depends on proper xauth config before X starts
16:13
which I still don't get
16:13
<vagrantc>
warren: remember what i said about it depending on configuring xauth ?
16:13
:P
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16:14
<vagrantc>
sbalneav: we need your xauth wisdom! :)
16:15* vagrantc feels like a fish flopping on the bottom of a baot
16:15
<vagrantc>
s,baot,boat,
16:15
<warren>
I'm getting close
16:20
<vagrantc>
do we need to source ltsp_config in our screen scripts? on debian, they're always called by something which has already sourced them, and all of the variables get exported
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16:21
<vagrantc>
ah, we could set a variable in ltsp_config ... LTSP_CONFIGURED=true ...
16:23
or LTSP_CONFIG_DONE=true
16:24
<warren>
OK, if you logged into user test, then /home/test/.Xauthority contains the client auth cookies put there by ssh
16:24
We have to do the equivalent of this
16:25
<vagrantc>
warren: to be able to run the greeter ?
16:25
<warren>
vagrantc, no
16:25
vagrantc, well
16:25* warren goes to ask the gdm guys how it works for them
16:29
<vagrantc>
so ldm, xdmcp and rdesktop can all share: -config, -depth, that option that ogra always complains about, and -br
16:29
as well as X_RAMPERC
16:30
i think that's definitely enough to warrent common code
16:31
warrant
16:31
<mhterres>
Hey guys
16:31
I'm receiving the message "this workstation isn't authorized to connect"
16:32
I know this is a question about lstp-update-sshkeys
16:32
I ran ltsp-update-sshkeys and then ltsp-update-image
16:32
but the problem persist
16:32
any ideas ?
16:32
:-)
16:55
<warren>
what is X_RAMPERC?
16:55
<vagrantc>
warren: it's the ulimit thing to limit how much memory the X server can take, i think.
16:55
warren: i don't fully understand it
16:56
<warren>
vagrantc, talked with the gdm guys, I understand it a little better, they suggested copying the way gdm does it with uses libXau directly instead of running xauth add, sorta makes sense.
16:56
<xcasex>
i bet compiz on a via based thinclient is a no go?
16:56
<warren>
vagrantc, cleaner code to have it done within ldm
16:56
vagrantc, but this will take a lot more work
16:56
<xcasex>
man my sentences dont even come out right when i'm this tired.
16:56
"i bet compiz doesnt work with a via based graphics chipset on a thin client"
16:56
is what i meant.
16:56
<warren>
xcasex, does any 3D work on via at all?
16:57
AFAIK no
16:57
<xcasex>
precisely
16:57
luckily i can switch it out :>
16:59
<warren>
vagrantc, oh interesting things I learned too
16:59
vagrantc, -ac alone doesn't make it secure
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17:00
<warren>
vagrantc, in the case of LDM_DIRECTX=false you will want "-nolisten tcp" so there's no chance anything else on the network can screw with X, because otherwise it is still open.
17:06
<vagrantc>
warren: i'm pretty sure that will entirely block all requests from the server as well
17:06
warren: as that's all done with tcp connections
17:06
<warren>
vagrantc, oh?
17:06
m
17:07
Oh, I see.
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17:07
<warren>
vagrantc, oh, I remember now,
17:07
vagrantc, -ac still allows anybody from localhost to connect
17:08
vagrantc, which is the entire reason why ssh -X still works now
17:08
if you have no xauth cookies
17:08
<vagrantc>
-ac allows anybody from anywhere to connect
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17:08
<warren>
I mean
17:08
by removing -ac
17:08
<vagrantc>
ah.
17:08
<warren>
removing -ac but having no xauth cookies
17:09
<vagrantc>
which isn't so bad in most LTSP environemnts ... but needs to be fixed
17:09
<warren>
yeah, we need to fix the lack of xauth cookies on the X server anyway
17:10
<vagrantc>
well, i just committed a patch which should give us a few less filesystem calls ...
17:11
<warren>
umm
17:11
what if you don't want to specify a depth at all?
17:11
because you want X to decide itself
17:11
<vagrantc>
then don't define depth
17:11
or don't define X_COLOR_DEPTH
17:11
<warren>
oh
17:11
<vagrantc>
but that's not the patches i just committed
17:12
<warren>
misunderstood
17:25
vagrantc, too burnt out for today, leaving office now
17:26
vagrantc, I think a medium-term thing would be to use libXau directly like gdm, but in the short-term I think the shell script method is faster. I'm going to next try to setup xauth MANUALLY from the command line only to learn how it works.
17:26
vagrantc, ttyl
17:26
<vagrantc>
warren: cool. then you should have a firm grasp of it :)
17:28* vagrantc chuckles every time ltsp gets an upload for hurd
17:28
<vagrantc>
i cannot fathom it actually works
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18:09
<loather-work>
hurd? does it even boot?
18:26moa_ has joined #LTSP
18:32
<ogra_cmpc>
it will ...net year, when its ready
18:32
*next
18:32
:)
18:33
<johnny>
poor HURD..
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18:39
<loather-work>
poor HURD? poor anyone stuck using it :(
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19:13
<moquist>
stgraber: ping
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19:16
<vagrantc>
anyone in new york got a couch to crash on on the 29th ?
19:22
<mnemoc>
.oO
19:46K_O-Gnom has quit IRC
19:49
<moa_>
ok, ok I need some help with sound.
19:49
anyone in here not sleeping?
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19:58
<vagrantc>
moa_: what linux distro and release?
19:58
<MacIver>
moa_: what kind of help?
19:59
<moa_>
hey, you guys aren't sleeping!
19:59
gentoo 2007.0, ltsp4.2 ( i know, I need to update )
19:59
<johnny>
there is no ltsp5 for gentoo, yet
20:00
i'm working on it
20:00
<vagrantc>
johnny and dberkholz have been working on ltsp5
20:00
<johnny>
just running into bits of problems here and there
20:00
stuck on the initramfs for the moment
20:01* MacIver gets johnny some tar remover
20:01
<johnny>
it ain't tar.. it's cpio :)
20:01
hehe
20:01
<MacIver>
:-D
20:01
<moa_>
Any tips/tricks for getting sound to work with esd/alsa?
20:01
<MacIver>
moa_: pulse rocks ;)
20:01
<johnny>
i've never used ltsp4.. so no idea
20:02
<moa_>
pulse?
20:02
<johnny>
pulseaudio
20:02
<MacIver>
i think you might be able to hack it with esd, if you have the patience
20:02
<johnny>
i gotta eat dinner tho
20:02
bbiab
20:02
<moa_>
I've been hacking esd for the past four hours
20:02
<MacIver>
heh
20:03
moa_: teaser...on edubuntu, apt-get install pulseaudio, and pretty much have sound for /free/ ;)
20:03
<moa_>
It's very strange. I can push mplayer over esd and it works just fine. But any window manager I try has no luck.
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20:04
<MacIver>
moa_: is the variable set before the wm starts?
20:04
<moa_>
I'm pretty sure
20:04
<MacIver>
how are you setting it?
20:08
<moa_>
I'm not actually setting it manually, but kde for instance detects it in the sound settings.
20:10
and env shows espeaker correctly
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22:59
<vagrantc>
wheeee: bzr get http://llama.freegeek.org/~vagrant/bzr/ltsp/features/ltsp-common-x-screen.d
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