IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 12 December 2008   (all times are UTC)

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00:38
<johnny>
fedora's mpg123 lacks a pulse driver..
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00:57
<johnny>
yay.. :(
00:57
or not
00:57
let's see.. the version control systems of projects i work with often..
00:57
bzr,git,svn,cvs,mtn
00:58
and now adding hg to the roster..
00:58
and darcs occasionally even..
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02:47
<nubae>
why do Debian and Fedora use NFS as default instead of NBD?
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06:29
<Hyperbyte>
Setting up LTSP on Fedora 10... after login thin clients drop back to the login screen... why?
06:29
<Appiah>
nubae: LTSP 5 ?
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07:19
<kriegaffe>
I had this drop-back to login screen when I installed ltsp-server on a ubuntu server wich had not installed any x components
07:19
didn't have time to find out which files were missing
07:20
<rjune_>
Hyperbyte: usually that means X can't start the window omanager
07:20
try setting the session type to failsafe and see what happens
07:21
if that works(it's just a shell)
07:21
run gnome-session
07:21
if that fails, you should have some clue why
07:21
<nubae>
Appiah: ?
07:22
<Appiah>
you asked about debian and fedora using nfs instead of ndb
07:22
I was asking if that was LTSP 5
07:22
<nubae>
yeah... I wonder why they don't default to nbd
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08:03
<Appiah>
...
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08:36
<_UsUrPeR_>
warren: can I test out that whitelist? I don't need an installer/package or anything...
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09:00
<FlyOnTheWall>
would anybody happen to know how to set refresh and sync rates in the LTSP distributed with Xubuntu?
09:00
seems good ol' /opt/ltsp/amd64/etc/lts.conf isn't any good
09:00
and neither does the tftp one
09:01
<d3co>
hi!
09:01
I installed my server ltsp, but now my users created with /bin/bash may not enter the PC customers, only root can login!
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09:02
<d3co>
maybe some additional configuration?
09:04
how can make my users to login?
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09:06
<rjune>
d3co, can you login as them at the server?
09:06
or via ssh?
09:08
<d3co>
mm
09:09
in pc client appears in the login ltsp.org :) but only root can login!
09:10
<sbalneav>
FlyOnTheWall: Probably the easiest would be to provide a custom xorg.conf, and point to it with the X_CONF variable.
09:10
<d3co>
my server ltsp is a server ssh too!
09:11
<sbalneav>
d3co: Can these users log in on the console?
09:12
<d3co>
yes with ssh!
09:12
and login too
09:13
<sbalneav>
ok, so what happens when they try to log in via a thin client?
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09:16
<d3co>
appear again ltsp.org login :s
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09:17
<d3co>
well
09:17
was seeing that my users have no home directory
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09:18
<sbalneav>
Well, if they have no home directory, that would cause the problem. :)
09:19
<rjune>
d3co, there's the problme
09:19
yeah
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09:19
<rjune>
d3co, in most distros, cp -a /etc/skel ~USERNAME && chown -R USERNAME ~USERNAME
09:19
should do it
09:19
d3co, however, most distros create the home directory for you.
09:19
are you using LDAP or some other remote auth?
09:20
<d3co>
no ldap
09:21
<sbalneav>
d3co: What distro are you running?
09:22
<d3co>
just follow the step of the typical installation of ltsp to lenny
09:24
for this information http://wiki.debian.org/LTSP/Howto :)
09:26
well i return, i gonna try again with the new users home :)
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09:33
<Gadi>
d3co: in case you read this log: while read i; do if [ $(echo $i|cut -d: -f3) -ge 1000 ]; then usermod -m $(echo $i|cut -d: -f1); fi; done </etc/passwd
09:33
good morning, all
09:34
<sbalneav>
Morning Gadi
09:34
<Gadi>
happy friday
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09:35
<alkisg>
Gadi: you got one of those for getting usernames/passwords from an "old" /etc/passwd - shadow into a new one? :)
09:36
<Gadi>
hehe
09:36
<alkisg>
(transferring accounts, I mean... :P)
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09:37
<Gadi>
well, it could be dangerous, but a quick and dirty one would be:
09:43
<d3co>
rjune: thanks the home directory is the solution! :)
09:43
<Gadi>
unset USERS; while read i; do if [ $(echo $i|cut -d: -f3) -ge 1000 ]; then USERS="$USERS $(echo $i|cut -d: -f1)"; echo $i >>/etc/passwd; fi; done </etc/passwd.old; while read i; do CHECKUSER=$(echo $i|cut -d: -f1); for u in $USERS; [ "$u" = "$CHECKUSER" ] && echo $i >>/etc/shadow; done; done </etc/shadow.old
09:44
<d3co>
rjune: i have to do onother configuration in the gdm.conf?
09:44
<alkisg>
Gadi: wow! I'll need 1 hour to read that... :)
09:44
Thanks!!!
09:44
<Gadi>
alkisg: hehe
09:44
yeah
09:45
dont test it on a machine you care about
09:45
<nubae>
the master of sh
09:45
<alkisg>
Gadi: don't worry, I'll check it manually afterwards
09:45* Gadi never gets it right the first time
09:45
<alkisg>
It's just 50 students, so one more, one less... no problem! :)
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09:48
<Gadi>
alkisg: just found a type: I need a "do" after: for u in $USErS;
09:48
hehe
09:48
see
09:48
never right the first time
09:49
<alkisg>
Gadi: it's not an easy thing, these 3-line oneliners... :)
09:49
<Gadi>
u bet
09:51
<warren>
_UsUrPeR_: i'm testing something for you now
09:51
<_UsUrPeR_>
warren: great, thank you
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09:54
<warren>
.pastebot
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09:54
<warren>
_UsUrPeR_: http://fpaste.org/paste/336 This sucks a lot and upstream might not look like this, but it is simple and it works.
09:55
<Gadi>
etyack!
09:55
<warren>
_UsUrPeR_: it allows only single words
09:55
<etyack>
Gadi!
09:55
<Gadi>
how are *u*, man?
09:55
<etyack>
hanging in there. preparing my bailout application :)
09:55
<_UsUrPeR_>
lulz
09:56
<Gadi>
etyack: cool - ill hop in my jet and hand deliver it for ya
09:56
<_UsUrPeR_>
warren: that's just fine. I can get on creating a few scripts
09:56
<etyack>
Gadi: it'll help pay for Christmas gifts and my bonus
09:56
<rjune>
etyack, howdy
09:57
<etyack>
rjune: hey!
09:57
rjune: how are things?
09:57
<rjune>
meh
09:57
looking for work
09:57
<etyack>
unemployed | unhappy
09:58
<Gadi>
warren: you want to WHITELIST all local commands?
09:58
by default?
09:58
that can get tedious
09:59
and quite hairy
09:59
can we not have a blacklist instead?
10:00
bbiab
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10:03
<rjune>
etyack, I'm not unemployed yet
10:04
<etyack>
rjune: that's a much better position to be in
10:05
what type of work are you looking for?
10:06
<rjune>
anything that pays the bills.
10:06
I can't really move at the moment, but I'm versatile
10:07
<etyack>
email me your resume, etyack@disklessworkstations.com
10:07
never know
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10:15
<rjune>
etyack, off to ya
10:16
<warren>
Gadi: oops, I forgot to make it not enforce if the whitelist is not defined
10:17
<_UsUrPeR_>
warren: what's the format of the whitelist allowable file supposed to be? also, where do I put it?
10:17
<warren>
_UsUrPeR_: there is no file
10:17
<Gadi>
warren: ah - that makes more sense - and would complement nicely a LOCAL_APPS_MENU_ITEMS
10:17
<warren>
_UsUrPeR_: LOCAL_APPS_WHITELIST="/usr/bin/something /usr/bin/something2"
10:17
_UsUrPeR_: in lts.conf
10:17
<_UsUrPeR_>
oh nice
10:17
ok, cool
10:18
<warren>
Gadi: I'm not certain that this is what we want upstream
10:18
<_UsUrPeR_>
warren: thanks a lot
10:18
<warren>
Gadi: limited to single words
10:19
<Gadi>
change: for cmd in $LOCAL_APPS_WHITELIST; do
10:19
oops
10:19
I mean
10:19
change: [ "$cmd" = "$LTSP_COMMAND" ]
10:19
to: [ "$cmd" = "$(echo $LTSP_COMMAND|cut -d\ -f1)" ]
10:20
(two spaces after the \
10:20
That'll remove your limitation
10:20
<warren>
Gadi: what about safety?
10:21
Gadi: will that prevent two commands from begin run on the other end?
10:21
<Gadi>
no
10:21
instead of comparing cmd to the entire LTSP_COMMAND string
10:21
it compares it to the first word
10:22
NOTE: you also don't care for full path versus relative
10:22
so, "firefox" will not match "/usr/bin/firefox"
10:22
so, we should do:
10:23
LTSP_COMMAND_EXE="$(echo $LTSP_COMMAND|cut -d\ -f1)"
10:23
if [ "$cmd" = "$(LTSP_COMMAND##/*/}" ]; then
10:24
if [ "$cmd" = "${LTSP_COMMAND##/*/}" ]; then
10:24
sorry -goofed the curly brace in that first one
10:24
<warren>
I think we don't support PATH running now
10:24
I don't think that's bad.
10:24
<Gadi>
ah, ok
10:24
so the list in the whitelist should be full paths?
10:25
thats certainly easier
10:25
<warren>
I'm thinking if there are any drawbacks to [ "$cmd" = "$(echo $LTSP_COMMAND|cut -d\ -f1)" ]
10:25
Gadi: why two spaces?
10:25
<Gadi>
the backslash in an escape character
10:26
so you can make the delimiter a single space
10:26
<warren>
oh
10:26
<Gadi>
the only drawback is if your command needs a helper like "sudo"
10:26
because, then "sudo" becomes the first word
10:27
<warren>
I don't think it is ever safe to allow sudo
10:27
<Gadi>
well, yeah - prolly if you're gonna start whitelisting, you would whitelist sudo too
10:27
:)
10:28
but, hey - ya never know
10:28
<warren>
if you need to be unrestricted, don't use the whitelist
10:28
This is primarily for _UsUrPeR_'s paranoid customer
10:29
be back online soon
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11:33
<stgraber>
warren: does everything worked for you with the release you tagged ?
11:34
warren: looks like it breaks with LDM_DIRECTX=True here
11:34
<warren>
stgraber: seemingly, I'm running into GNOME upstream problems though
11:34
GNOME fucked themselves
11:34
really?
11:34* warren tries
11:34
<stgraber>
yeah, I get: xrdb: Can't open display '192.168.0.101::7'
11:34
in my .xsession-errors
11:35
unfortunately I'm testing remotely so it's not that easy to have a good idea of what's going on
11:35
(might be my fault too)
11:35
<warren>
crap
11:35
it does appear broken
11:36
<johnny>
care to explain that statement warren ?
11:36
about gnome
11:37
<warren>
johnny: fallout from the dbus security "fix" I think
11:38
<johnny>
oh.. sure
11:38
<Gadi>
seems ur doubling down on ::s
11:38
<johnny>
i blame the package maintainer
11:38
s*
11:38
pretty sure it said to be conservative in your fixes
11:38
<warren>
johnny: https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=18980
11:38
<johnny>
in the initial announcements
11:38
<warren>
johnny: yes, I blame him too
11:39
He pushed the dbus update without ANY votes or testing feedback from anyone else. It is a security hole where nearly every dbus application was relying on the security vulnerability, so he fundamentally changes the way dbus works in a security update in violation of our rules.
11:40
<stgraber>
warren: good, "it's not my fault", any idea what's going on ?
11:40
warren: looks like the .Xauthority isn't generated or at least not correctly on the server
11:40
<warren>
stgraber: the LDM_DIRECTX=yes thing was broken by something...
11:41
<Gadi>
I see it
11:41
its in Ryan52's new code
11:41
MY_DISP="DISPLAY=$LDMINFO_IPADDR:$DISPLAY"
11:41
should eliminate the :
11:41
<johnny>
i'm just gonna blame Gadi for the whole thing
11:41
problem solved
11:41
<Gadi>
in rc.d/X99-run-x-session
11:42
<stgraber>
Gadi: oh, I didn't notice the :: in what I copy/pasted but yes it's clearly the issue
11:43
<johnny>
clearly..
11:43
<Gadi>
just pushed the fix
11:43
please test
11:43
er, pushing
11:43
pushed
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11:45
<stgraber>
ok, testing
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11:52
<warren>
stgraber: seems to work
11:52
<stgraber>
ok, LDM_DIRECTX now works but when closing the session ldm seems to enter some kind of infinite loop
11:52
<warren>
stgraber: which session?
11:54
<stgraber>
standard gnome. It seems to do the openvt, spawn ldm, fail, close and start again
11:54
might be ltsp-cluster specifc though
11:54
<warren>
I tried only XFCE4
11:54
<Gadi>
maybe the vars RYan uses are still in the environment
11:54
and need to be unset
11:55
<warren>
did you reboot the client?
11:55
I just logged out of GNOME just fine
11:56
Gadi: stgraber: btw, any opinion, should ldm ask if you want to save a chosen Session as default for future logins?
11:56
<Gadi>
thats what gdm would do
11:56
<warren>
Gadi: stgraber: old versions of gdm used to ask, but new gdm does not ask anymore.
11:56
<stgraber>
I think it should, it should also make sure that the session exists
11:56
<Gadi>
oh, really?
11:57
<stgraber>
in my case I had a .dmrc saying KDE, so it tries starting KDE and that failed as I only have gnome :)
11:57
<warren>
with ldm-dialog we can add error messages now
11:57
stgraber: Gadi: I really don't see much benefit in asking
11:57
asking also means we have to translate that really long string
11:58
<Gadi>
ah
11:58
so dont ask
11:58
that should be fine
11:58
as long as we document that the session you choose will persist to your next login
11:58
regardless of what terminal you log in from
11:59
(users tend to associate experience with machine they use)
11:59
<warren>
Gadi: although if you don't choose one, it wont save .dmrc and it will use your default
12:00
you can specify a system wide default with LDM_GLOBAL_DMRC
12:00
<Gadi>
right
12:00
wow - fancy
12:00
:)
12:00
<warren>
OK, so we are in agreement, don't ask, just save if they chose something.
12:00
ldm-dialog is still useful to display error messages
12:00
"Dude, you don't have this session."
12:01
"Dude, this shit is broken."
12:01
<stgraber>
root@ltsp:~# /usr/share/ltsp/screen.d/ldm
12:01
/usr/share/ltsp/screen-session.d/XS99-assembleXorgConf: 78: /sbin/lspci: not found
12:01
<Gadi>
personally, the number of users using LTSP who will switch away from their system's provided default desktop are going to be few and far between
12:01
<warren>
stgraber: you dont have /sbin/lspci?
12:01
<Gadi>
better not to ask questions
12:01
<stgraber>
/usr/bin/lspci
12:01
<warren>
Gadi: yeah, but LDM_GLOBAL_DMRC would probably be used by the deployer
12:01
stgraber: damn, you serious?
12:01
<stgraber>
yeah
12:01
<warren>
that's the stnadard debian/ubuntu location?
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12:01
<Gadi>
warren: can you use hal instead of lspci for that hack?
12:02
<warren>
Gadi: hal requires hal to be running, while lspci will always work no matter what
12:02
<Gadi>
like the intel hack?
12:02
ah
12:02
<warren>
well, if you have the right path...
12:02
<Gadi>
then just call lspci with no path
12:02
<warren>
does it work there?
12:02
I dunno
12:02
<Gadi>
PATH should be set
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12:03
<warren>
let's set our own PATH for lspci just to be safe?
12:03
<Gadi>
(I think)
12:03
<warren>
PATH=/sbin:/usr/bin lspci blahblah
12:03
<Gadi>
ok
12:03
<warren>
stgraber: could you add a PATH for all lspci calls, there are a few
12:03
<Gadi>
just put all the standard bin paths
12:04
<warren>
I need to leave the burrito place now, be back soon.
12:04
<Gadi>
lol
12:04
<warren>
taco music
12:04
I know
12:04
<stgraber>
ok, found my bug (the real one)
12:04
<warren>
brb
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12:04
<stgraber>
http://pastebin.com/m7132c09d
12:04
Gadi: this one is for you :)
12:05
<Gadi>
oops
12:05
:)
12:05* Gadi investigates
12:05* stgraber is happy not to have asked ogra to do the upload :)
12:07
<Gadi>
damn
12:08
stupid last minute change always bites one in the arse
12:08
<stgraber>
http://pastebin.com/f204899db
12:08
does that looks like a good fix for the lspci one ?
12:10
<Gadi>
1 sec
12:13
how do I get bzr to remember a push location?
12:13
<johnny>
hmm.. it always remembers it for me..
12:13
weird
12:13
<Gadi>
(pushed fix for the above, btw)
12:13
johnny: its hit or miss for me
12:14
<stgraber>
Gadi: bzr push ... --remember
12:14
<Gadi>
stgraber: I would do: if [ -z "$XSERVER" ] && [ -n "$(PATH=/sbin:/usr/sbin:/bin:/usr/bin lspci -n |grep 100b:0030)" ]; then
12:14
no single quotes for PATH
12:14
and use all the standard bin dirs
12:14
so, we dont have to do this again
12:14
:)
12:15
<stgraber>
right
12:15
<Gadi>
lemme know if that fix fixes things
12:15
it should
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12:16
<Gadi>
hola, warren
12:16
<warren>
I'm at the laundromat now
12:16
the internet here is faster than at home
12:16
I come here if I need to upload a large file
12:16
oh yeah, I come here to wash clothes too
12:17
They are so great here. They have a SINK. And a bathroom.
12:17* Gadi understand the connection between internet porn and washing clothes
12:17
<Gadi>
smart businessman
12:17
<stgraber>
ok, pushed the lspci fix too
12:17
<warren>
stgraber: lets make it not ask anymore, add an error message if your session doesn't exist, then tag again
12:18six2one has joined #ltsp
12:18
<stgraber>
right, I'll just do a quick test with these two patches applied, just in case something else breaks that I haven't seen yet
12:19ltsppbot has quit IRC
12:20
<warren>
stgraber: where was the lspci fix pushed?
12:20
<Gadi>
yeah - Im not sure if I need an empty line between xorg.conf sections
12:20ltsppbot has joined #ltsp
12:21
<stgraber>
warren: ltsp-trunk
12:21
Gadi: I don't think you do
12:22
<Gadi>
red hot chips and coffee! what a rush!
12:26randra has quit IRC
12:31
<stgraber>
Gadi: one more for you http://pastebin.com/m3c18dbc
12:36ltsppbot has quit IRC
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12:39
<Gadi>
are you sure that updated?
12:39
oh..
12:39
crap
12:40
<warren>
more problems?
12:40
I'll fix the "don't ask" part then
12:41
<stgraber>
warren: yeah, we changed quite a lot of stuff recently ....
12:42
ok, have to leave for a few minutes (group photo at UDS)
12:44
<warren>
stgraber: oh, how is your schedule during the weekend? I need to talk to you about something else unrelated, but it will take about 30 minutes on the phone.
12:47hanthana| has quit IRC
12:47
<_UsUrPeR_>
warren: could you take a look at this?
12:47
http://pastebot.ltsp.org/138
12:47
it doesn't seem to be working properly, no logs for allowed/disallowed in ldm.log
12:48
<warren>
_UsUrPeR_: it would end up in /var/log/messages
12:49
_UsUrPeR_: did you specify LOCAL_APPS_WHITELIST="/usr/bin/something /usr/bin/somethingelse" in lts.conf?
12:49
<_UsUrPeR_>
warren: oh. does all that look right? I put LOCAL_APPS_WHITELIST="/usr/bin/xterm" in the lts.conf
12:49
tried to run it..
12:49
<warren>
exactly that worked for me
12:50
<_UsUrPeR_>
hmm
12:50* _UsUrPeR_ re-checks everything
12:50
<_UsUrPeR_>
I put that in the right spot in localappsd though?
12:50
<warren>
_UsUrPeR_: let me send you a full file instead of patch
12:50
I'll make it a little cleaner too
12:50
<_UsUrPeR_>
warren: rgr
12:53Lns has joined #ltsp
12:54
<Lns>
ogra: :( I sure wish the common cold had a cure, because then I'd be with you guys right now!
12:54ltsppbot has quit IRC
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12:56
<warren>
I'm distracted by a fire engine and ambulance outside, smashed cars
12:56* warren goes outside
12:57
<Lns>
warren: sounds like fun!
12:57
<_UsUrPeR_>
warren: pics :)
12:58
<warren>
not too fun
12:58
one car's front is totaled, the other looks like only a cracked bumper
12:58ogra has quit IRC
12:59
<Lns>
heh.. seems like that's the case a lot of the time..one car is completely screwed and the other is just like "eh.. "
12:59plamengr1 has joined #ltsp
12:59
<Lns>
crumple zones ftw
13:00plamengr1 has left #ltsp
13:01
<_UsUrPeR_>
NFS utils does not have to be installed to mount a user's /home/ dir in Fedora 9, right?
13:01Sarten-X has quit IRC
13:02
<warren>
btw... we have to be careful about logging too much on the client
13:02
it will grow and grow and use more RAM
13:02
_UsUrPeR_: it uses sshfs for that
13:02
_UsUrPeR_: it should work automatically for GNOME at least
13:04
<_UsUrPeR_>
warren: ok, so say it was working, and is no longer. I removed the following to thin up the client: kernel-devel, glibc-headers, kernel-headers, selinux, nfs-utils and m4
13:04
<warren>
what pulled in kernel-devel before? nothing should have...
13:04vvinet has joined #ltsp
13:04
<_UsUrPeR_>
nvidia drivers
13:04
<warren>
_UsUrPeR_: what selinux packages exactly did you pull in?
13:05
_UsUrPeR_: err pull out
13:05rjune has quit IRC
13:05
<warren>
_UsUrPeR_: selinux might break things if you rip it out, even though it is disabled. it is a pretty core library now
13:06
<_UsUrPeR_>
warren: selinux-policy, selinux-policy-targeted, selinux-policy-devel, libselinux-devel, libevent, libsepol-devel, policycoreutils
13:06
warren: bear in mind these were all put on there via yum.
13:06
and all installed via yum
13:06
err uninstalled via yum
13:06
<stgraber>
warren: I'll be travelling tomorrow but should be available on Sunday
13:07
<warren>
_UsUrPeR_: don't rip out selinux-policy* libevent, policycoreutils
13:07
_UsUrPeR_: you can probably uninstall everything ending in *-devel if we don't have any bugs...
13:07
<_UsUrPeR_>
warren: ok. I'll revert to a backed-up image
13:08
<warren>
_UsUrPeR_: grab dkms-nvidia something from rpmfusion
13:08
_UsUrPeR_: still requires kernel-devel and gcc, but it'll do it real cleanly
13:08
cleanly as in evil
13:08rjune has joined #ltsp
13:09
<_UsUrPeR_>
I can live with evil
13:09selim_ok has quit IRC
13:11
<stgraber>
Gadi: got a fix for the other screen-session.d bug ?
13:11
<Lns>
That's pretty scary that selinux is considered so 'core' and even if disabled that it is required, given the NSA had their hands all over developing it...
13:11ltsppbot has quit IRC
13:12
<warren>
Lns: abject fearmongering
13:12
Lns: selinux is the only upstream kernel security module framework
13:13
Lns: any holes in selinux would be a bug
13:13
Lns: the code is 100% open
13:13
<Lns>
warren: Not fear mongering, concerned OSS citizen. :)
13:13
<warren>
Lns: wiht multiple companies auditing it all the time
13:13
<Lns>
warren: I know the code is open, but there's always the chance of blatant obfuscation to hide things.. I'll shut up though
13:14
It's good to hear lots of companies are auditing it
13:14
<warren>
Lns: why then are you not worried about encryption algorithms where the NSA supplied the static initialization bits?
13:14
<Lns>
warren: Never said I wasn't. :)
13:15ltsppbot has joined #ltsp
13:15
<warren>
Lns: interestingly, the NSA supplied seemingly random bits to initialize MD5 many years ago. Later it was discovered that the particular bits they gave made it a stronger algorithm.
13:16
<Lns>
warren: That's good to know. Of course, that doesn't mean other parts/divisions of the NSA don't have corrupt motives
13:17
I'm a skeptic by default so to speak (if you didn't already catch that)
13:17
<warren>
Lns: its part of the NSA's job to protect the integrity of commerce and government security as well
13:17
<sbalneav>
I hear Warren Togami isn't a real person, but actually a life-size anamatronic powered by an N-Dimensional Hypertronic Flux-Capacitor supercomputer that's run by the NSA.
13:17
That's just a rumour, though.
13:17
:)
13:18
<warren>
sbalneav: shhhh
13:19
<sbalneav>
Oh, cripes, did I blow your cover?
13:19
I'm a dead man now.
13:19
<Lns>
warren: heh
13:19* sbalneav waits calmly for the bullet in the nexk
13:19
<warren>
nah, you're out of our jurisdiction
13:19
<sbalneav>
err neck
13:19
<Gadi>
sorry, stgraber
13:19
was on the phone
13:19
just pushed it
13:19
<Lns>
I know I probably sound like a conspiracy theorist, but don't forget about http://www.eff.org/issues/nsa-spying . Ever.
13:19* Gadi uses i as his index too often
13:20
<stgraber>
Gadi: good, will test it
13:20
<warren>
They ARE a spy agency.
13:20
<Gadi>
brb
13:20
<Lns>
warren: right. A spy agency that wasn't supposed to spy on its own citizens.
13:21
<sbalneav>
Lns: Well, it's ALWAYS easier to spy on your own citizens. Less travel expenses. I mean, they're right THERE.
13:21
<Lns>
sbalneav: lol.
13:23
<sbalneav>
I'd love to know what CSIS (Canadian spies) have in their dossier about me.
13:23
<rjune>
sbalneav, http://pvpstuff.com/lochca9pa.html <-- think that would be good to give a wife?
13:23
<Lns>
I'm sure it's all just a bunch of stuff you already know personally. :)
13:24
<sbalneav>
rjune: Well, MY wife would just look at me funny, but she's been doing it for 17 years now, so I'm pretty used to it.
13:25
Lns: Betcha it says "happy go lucky" :)
13:25
Bon vivant
13:25
Man about town
13:25
reconteur
13:26
Gentleman, scholar, fine judge of whiskey
13:26
<Lns>
hahaha
13:26
Just count your stars they haven't needed a scapegoat that fit your description yet ;)
13:27
<sbalneav>
And NOT IN ANY WAY associated with selling armenian goats into sex slavery.
13:27
Oh, with the Rt. Honourable Stephen Harper as Prime Minister, I'm sure my number will come up. :)
13:30
<warren>
_UsUrPeR_: http://people.redhat.com/wtogami/temp/ltsp-localappsd
13:30
_UsUrPeR_: battery dieing, gotta go
13:30
seem sto owrk, but needs more testing
13:30
<_UsUrPeR_>
warren: thank you
13:30
<warren>
might be suitablef or upstream soon
13:30
poof
13:30warren has quit IRC
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13:32
<Lns>
See, the NSA remotely drained warren's batt.. coincidence? ;)
13:33dmaran has left #ltsp
13:36
<sbalneav>
Coinidence... or enemy action?
13:37
<Lns>
we might never know.
13:37
<sbalneav>
KEEP WATCHING THE SKIES, SHEEPLE!!!!!!
13:37
<Lns>
That's no use...their jets are too high and too fast to detect
13:38
<sbalneav>
Speaking of jets
13:38
I've become enamoured lately with pulse jets
13:38
<Gadi>
wow - I leave for a few mins and the NSA has goats as sex slaves?
13:38
too weird
13:38
<sbalneav>
Not just goats
13:38
ARMENIAN goats
13:38
<stgraber>
Gadi: are you sure you fixed the bug ?
13:39
<Gadi>
im pretty sure
13:39
<stgraber>
Gadi: it seems like exactly the same
13:39
<sbalneav>
giggle on youtooobe for pulsejets
13:39
<Gadi>
unless my commits are bad
13:39
<sbalneav>
I gotta get me one of them
13:39
<Gadi>
hmm
13:39
lemme see
13:39
<stgraber>
http://pastebin.com/m2981fa78
13:40
<sbalneav>
Could you people quit frigging doing useful work? You're interrupting my shiftless frivolity?
13:40
Geez, can't a guy waste time in PEACE anymore?
13:40
I tells ya.
13:40
<rjune>
LOL
13:41
<Gadi>
stgraber: can you paste your lts.conf?
13:41
<rjune>
http://failblog.org
13:41
<stgraber>
I can but it won't help :) it's ltsp-cluster but I can paste you the equivalent
13:41
<sbalneav>
They're ignoring me.
13:41
<snif> Gadi doesn't love me anymore <whaaa>
13:42
<stgraber>
Gadi: http://pastebin.com/m2e9c13f5
13:43
<sbalneav>
rjune: Oooh, I need a "FAIL" stamp for work.
13:43
<Gadi>
crap
13:43
found another bug
13:43
pushed
13:44
<rjune>
sbalneav, sounds like Gadi needs a fail stamp too
13:44
<sbalneav>
Gadi *always* gets a "win" stamp from me.
13:45
<Gadi>
economy's bad - I forgot a few $'s in my code
13:45
<sbalneav>
Even if he doesn't love me anymore ;(
13:45
<Gadi>
sbalneav: I'll always love you - despite your armenian goat fetish
13:45
... or maybe because of it....
13:47
<CAN-o-SPAM>
I'm starting to get worried about this group ...
13:48
<sbalneav>
CAN-o-SPAM: If you'
13:48
If you're worried, you haven't drunk enough Aquavit yet.
13:48
have another.
13:48
<CAN-o-SPAM>
haha apparently
13:49
<sbalneav>
"Relax and enjoy the crisis" --Ashleigh Brilliant
13:49ltsppbot has quit IRC
13:49
<CAN-o-SPAM>
somebody drank it all :-O
13:49
Remember sbalneav, you love America, do you still love it today?
13:49
<Lns>
CAN-o-SPAM: If conspiring about the NSA and selling Armenian goats as sex slaves worries you, you must be ..... THE ENEMY!
13:50
<CAN-o-SPAM>
If your anwser is yes ... you've just won 2 brand new Chevy Suburbans, rated a 1 MPG, thank you GM!
13:50ltsppbot has joined #ltsp
13:50
<Lns>
Wow, the auto bailout worked!
13:50
They're still in business!
13:51
Thank you, thank you! What COULD we have done... innovate? Puh-shah.
13:51
<Gadi>
stgraber: still here?
13:51
<sbalneav>
I thought the bailout was a failout?
13:51
<stgraber>
yeah
13:51
I'm booting my terminal, it crashed in the BIOS and I had to ask someone to get reboot it
13:52
<sbalneav>
Did they pass it?
13:52
<Lns>
sbalneav: They passed something that's allowing them to work more on it, but I don't think it's a definite "yes" yet
13:52
<Gadi>
stgraber: ah ok
13:53
sorry about that wacky commit two commits back
13:53
<johnny>
i'd like to see the government help the workers find other jobs in related industries..
13:53
<Gadi>
I accidently reverted 1 and recommitted it along with mine
13:53
<johnny>
instead of just bailing them out
13:53
<Gadi>
I was doing too many things at once
13:53
:(
13:53
<Lns>
johnny: That's way too sensible for our government to consider...
13:54
<johnny>
for example.. making train cars :)
13:54
<Gadi>
train cars? we need flying cars
13:54
<johnny>
lol
13:54
<Gadi>
that run on happiness
13:54
<Lns>
Cars are like PCs with hard drives. Totally redundant. =p
13:54
<Gadi>
:)
13:54
then, we could watch irate drivers crash and burn
13:55
<Lns>
Gadi: That's everyone though!
13:55
<Gadi>
yeah
13:55
:)
13:55sahil_ has joined #ltsp
13:56
<Gadi>
"somethings wrong with my engine" "think happy thoughts"
13:56
<stgraber>
Gadi: seems to have fixed it
13:56
<sahil_>
hey guys how can I enable system administration cababilities from a thin client?
13:56
<Gadi>
stgraber: yeah!
13:56
can you paste your xorg.conf
13:56
just for kicks
13:56
:)
13:56
<Lns>
Hey, I'm thinking of modifying my wiki page re: upgrading chroot to have this too, since I've seen some errors re /dev/pts not mounted.. is this a sane thing to do every time you upgrade? : sudo mount --bind /dev /opt/ltsp/i386/dev
13:57
<stgraber>
oh, my VNC just died
13:58
<Gadi>
sahil_: do you mean the greyed-out Unlock button?
13:58
<Lns>
sahil_: What do you mean specifically by "Administration capabilities" ?
13:58
<sahil_>
Gadi: yes
13:58
<Gadi>
that is a policykit thing
13:58
with ssh
13:58
<sahil_>
greek to me
13:58
<Gadi>
the default policy is to not allow remote connections to administer
13:59
<johnny>
Lns, that issue is fixed i think
13:59
<sahil_>
just change ssh config?
13:59
<Gadi>
no
13:59* Gadi forgets if it is a bug or if it requires a change to policy-kit
13:59
<johnny>
in recent debian uploads
13:59
iirc
13:59
<Lns>
johnny: ahh, ok
13:59
<sahil_>
anything i can do about it?
14:00
<Gadi>
sahil_: lemme google it
14:00
<stgraber>
Gadi: http://pastebin.com/m396ef52c
14:01
<Gadi>
u basically are looking for "policy kit" "ssh"
14:01
stgraber: I am surprised the code prints the sections at all
14:01
oh
14:01
no im not
14:01
its because we actually have hack functions
14:02
for each
14:02
hehe
14:02
nm
14:02
can you add some params like X_HORZSYNC, etc?
14:02
(while ur testing)
14:02alex_21 has joined #ltsp
14:03
<stgraber>
not really no, the BIOS is so broken that it tends to crash and I have to ask someone to go reboot it :(
14:03
<Gadi>
sahil_: https://bugs.launchpad.net/policykit/+bug/221363
14:03
<stgraber>
it's an old DELL Pentium2 ...
14:03
<Gadi>
stgraber: oh, sorry
14:03
<alex_21>
How do I set up a Netvista 2200 following the guide on your wiki won't work
14:03warren has joined #ltsp
14:03
<warren>
_UsUrPeR_: tried it?
14:03
<alex_21>
I can't upgrade it using the info on your wiki. The firmware that is
14:03
<stgraber>
before we tag again, I'll just move the hacks I have in getltscfg-cluster to screen-session.d
14:03
as they stopped working for obvious reasons
14:05
hmm, in fact I'll just drop them and then reimplement either in the Ubuntu packaging or do that by ourself
14:05
because I'd have to check that other distros have the same issue otherwise
14:05
<alex_21>
Well, the guide linke to from the wiki anyway by Robbert W.
14:05
<warren>
stgraber: what issue
14:06ltsppbot has quit IRC
14:06
<stgraber>
*issues
14:07ltsppbot has joined #ltsp
14:08
<stgraber>
warren: http://pastebin.com/ma094a62
14:09
warren: the first VIA is RandR not working so getting 800x600 so VBEModes is needed, second is just an auto-detect issue with openchrome and last one is the screen flickering because the video memory autodetection is broken
14:09
<warren>
stgraber: I'd not include those upstream, they are likely upstream X bugs that should be fixed, and have you tested it with X.org 1.5?
14:09
stgraber: also VIA driver is undergoing heavy dev now, better to not workaround their owrk
14:09
<Gadi>
please dont ship via hacks by default
14:09
<_UsUrPeR_>
warren: not as such yet. Running into other issues :/
14:09
warren: I'll give that a shot now
14:09
<Gadi>
there are too many drivers named "via" out there
14:09
<warren>
We KNOW the state of geode on GX2 and it wont get fixed anytime soon, so I'm OK with that hack.
14:10
<Gadi>
the Via binary driver works perfectly with xrandr 1.2 if the RANDR12 option is set
14:10
<stgraber>
it's with Intrepid so it's X 1.5
14:10
Gadi: we're using openchrome, not the binary one
14:10
<warren>
openchrome is under development, let's see where it goes.
14:11
<stgraber>
yeah
14:11
<Gadi>
we are making no choices on that upstream, I hope
14:11
<warren>
stgraber: are those bugs filed to openchrome upstream so they know?
14:11
Gadi: what do you mean?
14:11
<stgraber>
warren: I think so, would have to check to be sure
14:11
<Gadi>
I mean, upstream LTSP should not force the use of openchrome
14:11
<warren>
Gadi: openchrome was the least crappy of the via forks, and more recently VIA is actually working with the community on the openchrome project
14:11
Gadi: distros have, not LTSP's job
14:11
<Gadi>
right
14:12
so LTSP should not include a hack forcing the openchrome driver
14:13
also, it was only recently that ubuntu called the driver "openchrome"
14:13
they used to rename it "via"
14:13
<warren>
we replaced via with openchrome back in ... F7
14:14
<Gadi>
I think ubuntu in hardy still renamed openchrome "via"
14:14
<_UsUrPeR_>
warren: works just fine. Thank you.
14:14
<Gadi>
(not sure)
14:14
and VBE modes will screw up widescreen
14:15
<stgraber>
Gadi: they don't, but you need to force the resolution with RandR then
14:16
<Gadi>
stgraber: can you ship those hacks seperately or make them only apply if the detected driver is "openchrome"?
14:17
unless openchrome becomes phenomenally better or replaces the binary driver, I am sticking with the binary driver
14:17
<warren>
_UsUrPeR_: I'm still testing it, but hopefully something like that will go upstream soon
14:17
<Gadi>
and I dont want LTSP hacks to interfere with its operation
14:17
<_UsUrPeR_>
warren: again, one-word commands work great for me. This is perfect.
14:18
<stgraber>
Gadi: I guess I'll just add them manually in screen-session.d for our customers
14:18Q-FUNK has joined #ltsp
14:18
<_UsUrPeR_>
warren: about the $(command) did you ever get that figured out?
14:18
<warren>
Gadi: given that VIA released specs, most of their source and more is coming... and they have Harald working on the open driver and community...
14:18ogra has joined #ltsp
14:18
<warren>
Gadi: there is a good chance VIA will unfuck themselves
14:18
<stgraber>
Gadi: as they may well be fixed in Jaunty. I'm actually working on a backport of Jaunty's LTSP so I don't have Jaunty's X server
14:18
<Gadi>
warren: thats great to hear
14:18
<warren>
_UsUrPeR_: I think it is ok, it runs before it even gets to that
14:18
<_UsUrPeR_>
warren: cool.
14:19
<warren>
_UsUrPeR_: this is VIA's only chance as a company
14:19
oops
14:19
Gadi: ^^
14:19
brb, gotta relog
14:19
<stgraber>
warren, Gadi: anything else to change to ltsp/ldm or can be tag again ?
14:19
<Gadi>
not that I am aware of
14:19
<warren>
stgraber: want to review the whitelist implementation? pretty simple and I think it works, I'm still testing it
14:19
<Gadi>
stgraber: does this mean we finally integrated all of ltsp-cluster?
14:20
<warren>
stgraber: I didn't change the "do not ask" thing yet
14:20
<stgraber>
Gadi: it's been a while ltsp-cluster is integrated (almost a month)
14:20
<Gadi>
well, short of ur hacks
14:20
<stgraber>
warren: do you have a branch or link to the change ?
14:20
<Q-FUNK>
howdy
14:20
<_UsUrPeR_>
warren: VIA? I don't like their all-in-1 driver implementation on their chipsets... I'm a Asus man myself
14:20
<warren>
stgraber: I'm just pushing it to trunk, aside from bugs I think it is perfect.
14:21
stgraber: then we only need to document it
14:21
<stgraber>
warren: ok, I'll have a look
14:21
<Gadi>
stgraber: I will work a bit on the LTSP_APPS_MENU stuff
14:21
but go ahead and tag this as good
14:21* Gadi waves to Q-FUNK
14:22
<warren>
_UsUrPeR_: which is why they are changing
14:22
<stgraber>
Gadi: ok, ogra's plan (and I agree) is to not have a ltsp menu but simply merge them so that if local apps are available they'll just overwrite the current .desktop
14:22
*override
14:22
<warren>
_UsUrPeR_: well, all chips supported by one driver can work well, intel and radeon are pretty good
14:22
<Gadi>
stgraber: have you guys thought about file associations?
14:23
<stgraber>
Gadi: not yet, maybe it'll just work (tm) but I really doubt it
14:23
<Gadi>
it wont
14:23
:)
14:23sahil_ has quit IRC
14:23
<_UsUrPeR_>
warren: I will concede it's been a few years since I have owned a VIA motherboard. I had some blown caps on an old Pentium 3 slot-A motherboard and called it quits :)
14:23
<stgraber>
Gadi: at least putting a firefox.desktop file in .local/share/applications/ will make all the firefox entries in the desktop to magically use the localapp
14:23
<Gadi>
we're heading for confusion with it until it is bulletprrof
14:24
<stgraber>
now I don't know what's needed to do the same with the meta
14:24
<_UsUrPeR_>
warren: is there a way to get localappsd to log disallowed attempts for ltsp-localapps to the server instead of the client?
14:24
<stgraber>
*mime
14:24ltsppbot has quit IRC
14:24
<warren>
_UsUrPeR_: yes, that requires rsyslog redirection, I never tried to get that working on fedora
14:24* _UsUrPeR_ is starting to regret removing nfs :|
14:24
<stgraber>
_UsUrPeR_: default is to use our log function which is either /var/log/ldm.log or syslog and syslog can be remote
14:24
<warren>
Does Debian/Ubuntu use rsyslog? Do you folks redirect client syslog to the server? automatically?
14:25ltsppbot has joined #ltsp
14:25
<stgraber>
with Ubuntu you just have to uncomment a line in /etc/default/syslogd, restart sysklogd on the server and then use LTSP's syslog lts.conf parameter
14:25manu_ubu has joined #ltsp
14:25
<Gadi>
gotta run guys
14:25
its that time of day
14:25
good work today!
14:26Q-FUNK has left #ltsp
14:26
<warren>
stgraber: what is the syslog lts.conf parameter?
14:26Gadi has left #ltsp
14:26
<stgraber>
that's a good question :)
14:26
<manu_ubu>
hello
14:26
<stgraber>
SYSLOG or SYSLOG_SERVER I'd sys
14:26
*say
14:26
<sbalneav>
Hello manu_ubu
14:27
<warren>
_UsUrPeR_: it should theoretically work on fedora, you need to edit rsyslog settings on the server to allow the network syslog from certain hosts, then enable the lts.cof parameter for the client
14:27
<stgraber>
SYSLOG_HOST
14:27
ltsp-trunk/client/initscripts/ltsp-setup: if [ -z "$SYSLOG" ] || [ "$SYSLOG" = "remote" ]; then
14:27
ltsp-trunk/client/initscripts/ltsp-setup:*.* @${SYSLOG_HOST:-$SERVER}
14:27
<warren>
_UsUrPeR_: if you figure it out let me know what you did, I could possibly make it more obvious in docs
14:27
stgraber: pushed, please review, I'm adding docs
14:28
<alex_21>
How do I set up a Netvista 2200 following the guide on your wiki won't work. I can't upgrade it using the info on your wiki. The firmware that is. Well, the guide linke to from the wiki anyway by Robbert W.
14:30
<_UsUrPeR_>
warren: I'll check it out
14:30
<manu_ubu>
have you testing the new thin client at Dell's FX160 on ltsp server ?
14:30
<_UsUrPeR_>
warren: still, works great
14:31
<sbalneav>
alex_21: what doesn't work about the wiki?
14:32
alex_21: Are you looking at: http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/NetVistaN2200
14:32
<alex_21>
The guide posted to it. I followed it, and it linked to another article that shows how to upgrade using ltsp, and it fails every time
14:32
<stgraber>
warren: won't that log a "Rejecting ..." for each command in the whitelist until the one you actually run is found ?
14:33* warren checks
14:33
<alex_21>
Yes,
14:33
<sbalneav>
alex_21: soooo.... HOW does it fail?
14:33
<warren>
stgraber: only if the command given is not in the whitelist it will log reject?
14:34
<alex_21>
It is linked to that site for upgrading the client to be able to boot Linux, and that is what fails
14:34warren has quit IRC
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14:34
<alex_21>
It won'at let me upgrade the thing
14:34
<stgraber>
warren: if you have 10 commands in your whitelist and the command you want to run is the 100th, it'll display the rejecting message 99 time right ?
14:34
*100 commands
14:35
<warren>
crap
14:35
stgraber: ok, fixing
14:35
<sbalneav>
alex_21: I say again: HOW does it fail? Does it give an error message? Does the box smoke? Explode? What? We need a bit more info to help you. Probably none of us here HAVE one, so you're going to have to help us help you.
14:36openstep has joined #ltsp
14:37
<openstep>
hi
14:37
anyone here
14:38
<sbalneav>
Nope
14:38
<alex_21>
The box loads and then stops saying failed to boot after three attempts
14:38polytan has joined #ltsp
14:38
<polytan>
hi guys
14:38
<openstep>
hi
14:38
<alex_21>
I can't get to the logsas I am totally blind and can't read them
14:38
<openstep>
may I interreupt you guys a bit?
14:39
<johnny>
openstep, ask your question
14:39
<alex_21>
I mean the logs on the NV2200
14:39
<sbalneav>
alex_21: OK, so you're up to step 3 on the guide there? You've rebuilt the kernel?
14:39
<openstep>
I am deploying an LTSp setup in a high scohool
14:40
and the clients are various old pcs
14:40
problem is that some can not boot off the motherboard
14:40
<sbalneav>
alex_21: You, personally, are blind?
14:40
<johnny>
openstep, ?
14:40
<openstep>
I would like to boot off the hdd, but....
14:40
<johnny>
openstep, either you need nics with boot roms on them
14:41
OR use a floppy/cd/usb key with gpxe or rom-o-matic on them
14:41
<openstep>
all driver etherboot image isn't booting
14:41
<rjune>
openstep, boot from the motherboard? or can't boot from certain devices?
14:41
<sbalneav>
openstep: You can either get some cheap nics that do boot, or, ise something like gPXE
14:41
!gpxe
14:41
<ltspbot>
sbalneav: "gpxe" is the successor to etherboot. You can find it at: http://etherboot.org/wiki/index.php
14:41ltsppbot has quit IRC
14:41
<manu_ubu>
nobody have testing the Dell 's FX160 or other thin client with intel atom processor ?
14:42
<openstep>
I found it, I could buidl the floppy image but doesn't seem to work for me to install is on the hdd
14:42
<alex_21>
The kernal is the one that the first article had for download
14:43
And yes, I personally am blind
14:43
<openstep>
anyone here had success using the alldrivers etherboot stuff?
14:43
<alex_21>
Nope
14:43
<sbalneav>
alex_21: Well, robert W's article is out of date, I think the fellow who did the main wiki page has a kernel of his own up there.
14:44
<alex_21>
I used that kernel that Steve wrote
14:44
Steve is the guy who wrote the first article I think
14:44ltsppbot has joined #ltsp
14:45
<alex_21>
The problem is upgrading BIOS first of all
14:45
<sbalneav>
But how many of these netvista's do you have? My impression of them is that, unless you're forced to use them, you're better off with something that actually works. Netvistas are a pain to handle.
14:45
<alex_21>
Robbert's page shows how to do it, but it fails
14:45
<stgraber>
warren: going for some food now. Other than that "the log will be flooded" thing, the code looks good so I think we can tag+release again
14:46
<alex_21>
Two of them, with a possibility to go to eight
14:46
<warren>
stgraber: I need to leave soon too, I'll push something, you can review later and tag if you wish
14:46
<alex_21>
The problem is the size is right for them
14:46
<warren>
I wont build until tomorrow probably
14:46
<openstep>
sbalneav: if I get some nics, the motherboard still has to have the ability to support LAN booting, right?
14:46
so getting the right nic isn't enough
14:46
<sbalneav>
openstep: No, the lan booting can happen from the card.
14:47
if you get something like the Intel E100 cards, they boot fine.
14:47
<alex_21>
But how can the lan booting happen from the card if the motherboard doesn't tell it to boot
14:47
<openstep>
so they show up in the bios?
14:47
<alex_21>
?
14:47
<johnny>
openstep, no
14:47
the card has it's own bios
14:47
<sbalneav>
alex_21: the boot rom's on the card
14:47
the cpu just reads that.
14:47
<johnny>
same way scsi boot works
14:47
<openstep>
aha
14:47
<johnny>
on machines that don't have onboard scsi
14:48
or similiar that is
14:48
<alex_21>
Oh, then there is hpe for one of my older clients
14:48
<sbalneav>
alex_21: Well, not sure what to tell you for the netvistas
14:48
<openstep>
so if I get some Intel E100 cards any pc can boot off the net?
14:48
<johnny>
should be ues
14:48
yes*
14:48
<openstep>
good news
14:48
<sbalneav>
if the bios upgrade fails, maybe IBM changed something with the bios so it doesn't update with his bios he provides.
14:49
I'd recomment something from disklessworkstations.com
14:49
<alex_21>
I don't know, it doesn' seem to see the server
14:49
<sbalneav>
if you're going to be buying
14:49
<alex_21>
Maybe my bios are too old and I'll have to edit them manually
14:49
<sbalneav>
they work with LTSP right out of the box, and the company actively supports LTSP development.
14:49
<openstep>
well I was just going to boot off the HDD for now
14:50manu_ubu has left #ltsp
14:50
<sbalneav>
brb, workping
14:50
<openstep>
but I spent the whole day without success
14:50
<johnny>
i just used the floppy method
14:50
<openstep>
I can boot off the cdrom, or floppy
14:50
but installing it to a hdd was the problem
14:50
<johnny>
i taped up the floppy drive to stop users from messing with it
14:50
and taking out the floppy
14:50
<openstep>
same problem here
14:51MeW_away has quit IRC
14:51
<alex_21>
How do you know if a card is etherbootable?
14:51
<johnny>
alex_21, they should say that they include pxe boot room
14:51
usually cards that don't have an empty socket where the boot rom chip goes
14:51MeW_away has joined #ltsp
14:51
<openstep>
but floppies so sensitive
14:51
<alex_21>
But just by looking at them?
14:51
?
14:51
<johnny>
well when you buy a card, it should mention it in the specs
14:51
<alex_21>
And the floppy problem, I mount it instead of an hdd in an internal bay
14:52
<openstep>
have you seen this: http://etherboot.anadex.de/ ?
14:52
<alex_21>
That way users don't mess with it
14:52
<johnny>
alex_21, taping was good enough for me :)
14:52
hehe
14:53
<openstep>
I have done all the steps but doesn't boot from the hdd
14:53
<alex_21>
Oh
14:53
<johnny>
so i didn't have to open em up :)
14:53
<openstep>
that is my plan B
14:54alkisg has joined #ltsp
14:54
<alex_21>
Well, about my cards, I can't tell if they support etherboot because I got them second hand
14:54
The computer they came from did support it though
14:54
<warren>
stgraber: ok... I'm going to work more on cleaning up the error handling with ldm-dialog messages and removing the 'ask', but those are not critical. If you need to tag go ahead.
14:54
<johnny>
well.. i don't think the os exposes whether they have a boot rom
14:54
<warren>
stgraber: oh crap, I need to tag now...
14:54
haha
14:54
ok
14:54
tagging both
14:54* johnny tags warren
14:54
<johnny>
you're it!
14:54
<sbalneav>
back
14:55
<alex_21>
So I have no idea what to do as I need them runing by Christmas
14:55
Both the NV2200s and the older PCs
14:56
That I am not sure have netboot
14:57
<sbalneav>
Well, if you use the "universal boot floppy", unless the card is really old, they should work.
14:57
!bootfloppy
14:57
<ltspbot>
sbalneav: "bootfloppy" is http://etherboot.anadex.de or ftp://k12linux.mesd.k12.or.us/pub/K12LTSP/Universal_boot_floppy
14:57
<alex_21>
How do I now about etherboot, is there a tactile indication on them?
14:58
<sbalneav>
Well, you need to know about what kind of card they are.
14:58
<openstep>
sbalneav:: true
14:58
it works
14:58
but... installing it to a hdd is my problem
14:58
it has a menu to do so
14:58
but after installation, it hangs
14:58
<sbalneav>
If they've got a rom socket, you could burn a rom, but unless you've got an eprom-burner handy, that's probably not an option.
14:59
where does it hang?
14:59
on booting the kernel, or does it get up the the login prompt?
14:59
<alex_21>
What does a rom socet look like?
14:59
Socket, sorry
15:00
<openstep>
sbalneav: it doesn't start the boot process
15:00
<alkisg>
openstep: maybe you didn't install it correctly (e.g. missing mbr / boot sector or something). What file system do you have on the hard disk?
15:00
<sbalneav>
alex_21: do you have access to an eprom burner?
15:00
<openstep>
it seems as there is a problem right in the first line
15:00
<sbalneav>
openstep: You're using the floppy?
15:01
How did you create the floppy?
15:01
<alex_21>
No, I am just wondering if this thing has a rom socket on it
15:01ltsppbot has quit IRC
15:01
<openstep>
sbalneav: the floppy is ok, booted with it
15:01
<sbalneav>
alex_21: It's a square of plastic that would have holes for chip pins to slide into.
15:02
openstep: ok, so how far does it get? Does it lease an IP address?
15:02
<openstep>
then I opted for installing it to an average hdd
15:02
<alex_21>
I have this round thing that looks like a metal tube pertuding from my card. Whatis that?
15:02
<sbalneav>
openstep: just try booting directly, without installing to the hdd
15:02
<openstep>
sbalneav: I did that
15:02
it is working
15:03
off the floppy
15:03
<alkisg>
alex_21: something like this: http://z88.wiki.sourceforge.net/space/showimage/1MZ_rom.jpg
15:03ltsppbot has joined #ltsp
15:03
<alex_21>
Then use my suggestion about where to mount the floppy drive
15:03
<sbalneav>
ok, so problem solved: boot off the floppy :)
15:03
<alkisg>
(not from a NIC, though...)
15:03spectra has quit IRC
15:03
<openstep>
sbalneav: :)
15:03
<alex_21>
No idea, I am blind
15:03
<sbalneav>
alex_21: Probably a crystal for the clock
15:04
<openstep>
has anyone here tried booting off the hdd?
15:04
<alkisg>
openstep, do you have any partitions on your hard disk? What size is it?
15:04
<alex_21>
On the outside, like right beside the ethernet jack?
15:04
<sbalneav>
openstep: is there a reason WHY you can't jut boot off the floppy?
15:04
<alkisg>
openstep, I did boot from a windows 98, 2000, xp, vista, linux hdd.
15:04
<sbalneav>
alex_21: then maybe it's a BNC connector for thinnet
15:05
<alex_21>
Thinnet?
15:05
<sbalneav>
yeah, thin net
15:05
<openstep>
hdd's are safer then floppies
15:05
<alex_21>
What is thinnet?
15:05
<sbalneav>
10 base 2
15:05
<openstep>
but ok,
15:06
<alex_21>
Ok, is that even used anymore?
15:06
<openstep>
alkisg: howw did you boot off 98, 2000, xp,....?
15:06
<alkisg>
openstep: first try with anadex, then I moved to gpxe & grub4dos.
15:06
<sbalneav>
openstep: how are hdd's safer than floppies? If you're worried about someone removing the floppy, just bolt it into a hard drive bay, and cover up the hole with a plug.
15:06
<alkisg>
openstep: for linux, just gpxe.krn is enough, you load it with plain old grub
15:06
<alex_21>
That is what I suggested
15:07
<sbalneav>
alex_21: Some people still use it, but unless you're wired for coax, I'm willing to wager no.
15:07
<openstep>
thanks gusy
15:07
guys,
15:07
<sbalneav>
openstep: no problem
15:07
<alkisg>
openstep, I have the files for the hdd if you like
15:08
<openstep>
one more
15:08
how to boot off from win95 or xp for instance?
15:08
<alex_21>
Yeah, whell then, no, but that card came from a Windows 98 box. It doesn't have a boot rom then?
15:09
<alkisg>
openstep: http://grub4dos.sourceforge.net/wiki/index.php/Grub4dos_tutorial
15:09ogra has quit IRC
15:09
<sbalneav>
alex_21: Without knowing WHAT kind of card it it, I have no idea
15:09
<alkisg>
and you just put gpxe.krn (from etherboot) in menu.lst
15:09
<sbalneav>
it may, it may not.
15:10
<openstep>
thx
15:11
<alex_21>
I give up. My job is too hard
15:11
I mean installing bios by hand and the like. I can't even make a floppy as I don't have a floppy drive handy
15:12
<rjune>
alex_21, I'll take it
15:12
what does it pay?
15:12
<alex_21>
Some
15:12
But most is working out satilight points
15:13
I mean doing things over ssh and the like
15:13
<openstep>
bye
15:13
<sbalneav>
bye
15:13
<warren>
sbalneav: I think I'm going to re-engineer ltsp-trunk to split it into functional components
15:13
<alex_21>
Bye Openstep
15:13openstep has left #ltsp
15:13
<warren>
sbalneav: large chunks of it are useful for other projects
15:14
<sbalneav>
warren: I have no objections personally.
15:14
<alex_21>
And it is more non-paying until our first labe gets set up
15:14
<sbalneav>
I haven't done much for the last 3 or 4 weeks other than docs.
15:14
<warren>
I will figure out how to delineate it, and gradually change it in such a way that doesn't break LTSP packaging.
15:15
<sbalneav>
alex_21: I still am not sure: do you have a budget for this lab?
15:15
If so, buying thin clients that work will save you a LOT of grief
15:15
<alex_21>
We rely on donated stuff and a small budget
15:16
<sbalneav>
If all you've got is donated stuff, then updating bios' a fiddling with outdated hardware is going to be something you'll have to deal with.
15:16
<alex_21>
We need to have low maintenance, low cost machines, size only a prblem because of transportation
15:17
So, the bios I am ok with updating, just the fact that I havee no floppy handy is a problem
15:18
Floppy drive handy, sorry
15:18
<warren>
donated stuff tends to require more maintenance
15:18
unfortunately
15:18
<alex_21>
What a shame, because this lab is so crucial, but I can't get fund raising it seems
15:19
<warren>
where is the lab? what is it for?
15:19
<alex_21>
I mean, I don't kow the ins and outs of fund raising
15:19ltsppbot has quit IRC
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15:21
<alex_21>
The labs project that we coordinate is for VIPS Visually Impaired Persons. It teahes people who wouuld otherwise only know Braille and not be able to get a job otherwise how to use a computer so that they will integrate into main stream jobs and life in general
15:21
As for where, our first site is mazatlan, Mexico
15:24
I've already talked to a family of a student down there personally, so know the situation
15:27
First I am seting up a mall environment at home to deal with the set up of a lab as well as home security
15:27
But then I will use all the budget for the lab, nothing for my home project will come out of the budget
15:28
Once familiar with te setting up of a lab I will set up the first lab, and I hope to set up more in other places
15:28vplug has joined #ltsp
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15:32
<polytan>
johnny, hi
15:32
did I say that ldm started ?
15:32
I couldn't have my keyboard in french with lts.conf
15:33
but since I did a xorg.xonf (didn't say to use it, let ldm work by itself) I had it in french
15:33
so, I wasn't able to specify LOCALDEV=True and use the USB
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15:51
<alex_21>
Sorry, no idea. I had mine stuck on French because that was the default on the server
15:52
Changing that changed the keyboards on the thin clients too
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16:09
<stgraber>
warren: ok, I'll update my package with the new upstream. Thanks for tagging.
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16:27
<alex_21>
Hey, brought up a clien that works stand alone, but I brought it up under LTSP, and no sound
16:28
What can I do?
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16:52
<alex_21>
Hey, brought up a clien that works stand alone, but I brought it up under LTSP, and no sound
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17:12
<polytan>
good night
17:13ltsppbot has joined #ltsp
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17:21
<alex_21>
Hey, brought up a clien that works stand alone, but I brought it up under LTSP, and no sound
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18:25
<vagrantc>
amazing how much housework i got done without internet access all day :)
18:25
time to upload ltspfs...
18:29ltsppbot has joined #ltsp
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18:43* ogra_ whacks vagrantc ...
18:43* ogra_ just begged the archive admins to sync the latest ltspfs from debian ... which was done 1min ago
18:45
<vagrantc>
ogra_: *sigh*
18:46
ogra_: stgraber said it would be auto-synced from then on...
18:46
<ogra_>
not from experimental
18:46
<vagrantc>
i said i was planning on another upload shortly...
18:46
<ogra_>
well, no damage done ...
18:46
<vagrantc>
it's a relatively small change.
18:46
<stgraber>
yeah, I'll just file another sync request, it's easy to do :)
18:46
<vagrantc>
but causes localdevices not to work in some corner cases
18:47
<ogra_>
dont put the cases into the corner then :P
18:47
<stgraber>
what I wanted to do is to get rid of the debian<=>ubuntu delta, so now that's done.
18:47
next syncs will be extremely easy as I won't even have to look at the debian/ directory :)
18:47
<vagrantc>
i even merged y'all's changelog entries :)
18:47
<ogra_>
geez
18:48
your're developing a texan accent ?
18:48* ogra_ imagines vagrantc with cowboy hat
18:48* vagrantc has been saying y'all back when tejas was still part of mexico
18:49
<ogra_>
heh
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18:53
<vagrantc>
tested good... uploading...
18:54
i've actually (mostly) deployed LDM at freegeek finally!
18:54
and of course, it revealed a few minor bugs ... but overall, seems to be working
18:55* vagrantc still has no idea what's messing up the AUTO/GUEST/TIMED logins with LDM_USERNAME set ...
18:56
<vagrantc>
stgraber: looks like you're working on ltsp 5.1.38 and ldm 2.0.23 ?
18:56
<stgraber>
already uploaded to Ubuntu
18:56
<ogra_>
just uploaded :)
18:56
<vagrantc>
ok.
18:57
since there's no upstream location, i've set up a debian/watch file that polls ubuntu and fedora for new upstream versions ... when other distros give me a useable URL, i can check them, too.
18:57
<ogra_>
heh
18:58
we should do that too ...
18:58
<vagrantc>
although i suppose ubuntu will be going to bzr?
18:58* stgraber goes do the same for Ubuntu
18:58
<ogra_>
would make a funny rotating system
18:58
we'll likely have to
18:59
<vagrantc>
i should actually also poll debian, now that i think of it, so for packages like ltspfs, you'll easily see newer upstream versions
18:59
<ogra_>
one way or the other source packages will vanish in ubuntu
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18:59
<vagrantc>
as long as i can get a URL pointing to your latest upstream version, i should be fine... the URLs you posted to the bzr stuff before looked like they'd work.
19:00
though i'm not entirely positive uscan handles multiple URLs for sources
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19:01
<vagrantc>
from the commandline it seems to do the right thing... but not sure about some of debian's infrastructure: http://dehs.alioth.debian.org/report.php?package=ldm
19:01
i'm pretty sure fedora had a newer version, but it picked ubuntu's version
19:04
<rjune_>
ogra_: howdy
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19:06
<rjune_>
man, I show up and the room goes silent
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19:37
<alex_21>
Hey, brought up a clien whos sound works stand alone, but I brought it up under LTSP, and no sound
19:38
<nubae>
alex_21: should just work....
19:40
<alex_21>
nudae; well it does not work.
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19:43
<alex_21>
anyone?
19:44
<nubae>
u left explain u're problem again
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19:45
<alex_21>
Anyone?
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19:48
<alex_21>
Sorry got disconnected. It won't work, I mean no sound when I boot
19:49
<nubae>
alex_21: u have a nomral thin client? not localapps or fatclient?
19:51
<alex_21>
nubae; fatclient
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19:55
<nubae>
ok do this: add to /etc/pulse/client.conf
19:55
default_server=127.0.0.1
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20:08
<Ryan52>
warren, my todo list only has error checking and taking out the question asking code, right? or was there something else? /me is writing out his todo list
20:09
everytime I close emacs for some reason I forget to open my TODO file again, and then I stop using for a while :p
20:13
<rjune_>
ogra_: g/[knz+pt
20:13
++++++++++++++++
20:14
<Ryan52>
rjune_, qqqqqqqqqqqqqqqq--------alksdjAf :p
20:15* Ryan52 will work on ldm stuff sunday
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20:18
<rjune_>
';[[[[[
20:18
yy
20:18
<cliebow_>
cat??
20:18
<Ryan52>
dog??
20:18
<cliebow_>
parrot?
20:19
<rjune_>
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20:19
<cliebow_>
usually the arrots just rip the keys off wiyhout presing them..
20:19
<Ryan52>
really? weird.
20:20
<cliebow_>
heh..lost several keyboards that way
20:20
<Ryan52>
cliebow_, you have a parrot?
20:20
<cliebow_>
six..
20:20
<Ryan52>
woah! :)
20:20
<cliebow_>
plus sitting another two this weekend
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20:21
<cliebow_>
my wife doesnt just get "a" dog..or cat..or birds..or fish
20:21
<Ryan52>
lol
20:22
<nubae>
but maynbe cat.and.dog
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20:36
<rjune_>
cliebow_: toddler and kid
20:36
gah, toddler and cat
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21:12
<alex_21>
I added default server = 127.0.1 to the file /etc/pulse/client.conf
21:12
Now what do I do for the changes to take effect
21:12
?
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