IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 2 April 2011   (all times are UTC)

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04:19
<priyank>
hi i am having problem booting it is showing TFTP time out
04:19
booting the ltsp client
04:20
<alkisg>
https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/Troubleshooting/TFTP
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04:24
<priyank>
hi alkisg the tftp server is running can u look into it
04:25
x11vnc?
04:25
<alkisg>
Sorry not right know, busy
04:25
<priyank>
ok, i will try myself.
04:26
<alkisg>
(conference this weekend)
04:33
<priyank>
which conference? ok no probs. but just tell me 1 thing I was trying to boot client yesterday
04:33
it booted correctly when i booted through oracle VM
04:34
but when i tried on machine then it stuck at last step.(i think loading ltsp client)
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04:48
<Mava>
wtf..
04:48
if I make changes to lts.conf.. like disable automatic login for one thinclient.. it still logins automatically ?!?!
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05:33
<Mava>
or seems that i've made some very stupid logon script somewhere which still is on the run
05:33
man i smell bad also...
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05:51
<Mava>
yah..
05:51
why these are not standard locations or at least i'm not aware of this..
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09:58
<Roasted>
hmm
09:58
I find it interesting how thin and fat clients differ with ability to detect any file server, even if you're not on a domain
09:59
I may be eating my words. hold that thought... just thought of something...
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10:27
<roasted>
Okay... drawing a blank here... I have 1 fat client on my laptop as the edubuntu server. Previously my fat client test subjects would get internet via my laptop's (the server) wireless, but now I'm not getting it... what am I missing?
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11:15
<roasted>
How can I set up LTSP so it uses my home router (Linksys) as the DHCP server?
11:36
<muppis>
roasted, just disable dhcpd from server and set required parameters to Linksys.
11:36
<roasted>
What required parameters are you referring to?
11:36
<muppis>
tftp settings mostly.
11:36
<roasted>
where are they located?
11:36
I've only added windows dhcp to the mix, not a home router.
11:37
<muppis>
In dhcpd.conf
11:37
<roasted>
where is that located again?
11:37
<muppis>
/etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf
11:38
<roasted>
is there any documentation on what I am to change to the linksys?
11:39
<muppis>
First check this: http://dd-wrt.com/site/support/router-database
11:39
<roasted>
do I need dd-wrt on my router?
11:39
<muppis>
Helps a lot, as dnsmasq used in dd-wrt is easy.
11:39
<roasted>
can I make it work with my factory firmware on my WRT54G?
11:41
<muppis>
I'm not familiart with it settings, but I think not, as original fw's quite restricted.
11:41
<roasted>
bummer
11:42
I guess I went a little too far with my troubleshooting here.
11:42
I have a fat client (netbook) connected to my server (laptop) via cat5e line
11:42
but the fat client doesn't get internet access, even though my server (laptop) is on wireless via dhcp to my router.
11:42
<muppis>
I'm using Buffalo's routers (based same chipset as Linksys ones) and got more stability and usability with dd-wrt.
11:42
<roasted>
any idea why my fat client wouldn't get getting outbound access from my laptops wifi?
11:43chupacabra (~chupacabr@cpe-70-112-10-45.austin.res.rr.com) joined #ltsp.
11:44
<muppis>
Your laptop doesn't share the wifi connection to ethernet.
11:45
Look at here: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/ThinClientHowtoNAT
11:46
<roasted>
if I change the IP of my LTSP server, and my LTSP server is not handling DHCP services, do I just change the IP in the interface file or does it need to be changed elsewhere too?
11:47
<muppis>
You need change it also from DHCP -server so clients can found needed files.
11:48
<roasted>
you're referring to /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf
11:48
right
11:48
<muppis>
Yes.
11:48
<roasted>
do I just comment out the "range" part?
11:49
since the server wouldn't be doing IP handouts
11:50
<muppis>
You need to that on real dhcp -server, as if you do not use LTSP -servers dhcpd, changing file in server doesn't have any effect.
11:50
<roasted>
okay
11:51
for some reason my client isnt receiving an address now
11:52
nevermind. got it.
11:52
I just wonder if my fat clients werent getting outbound access cause my wired LAN with my server was 192.168.0.X and my linksys router uses 192.168.1.X
11:54
<muppis>
Does fat's go thru server or directly via router?
11:54
via / to
11:54
<roasted>
well I'm just doing a test environment here, so the fat client (netbook) connects directly to my server (laptop)
11:54
so you have
11:54
netbook ---> laptop (then laptop has wireless card for external access)
11:55
my laptop (server) had connectivity, but on the netbook when I tried to get on google and other sites,t it times out
11:55
<muppis>
Ok, then you need enable NAT from server.
11:56
<roasted>
oh so its a network device thing?
11:56
and not a config on my server (laptop)??
11:56
cause I did this at work and it worked fine, and it totally confused me...
11:58
<muppis>
It's in configs of network device in server
11:58
<roasted>
that makes no sense then
11:58
<muppis>
Take a look at URL what I pasted.
11:58
<roasted>
my laptop at work = worked
11:58
with a client connected to my laptop
11:58
yet here at home
11:58
doesn't work
11:58
same config on everything
11:59
<muppis>
Also used wireless in work?
11:59
<roasted>
yeah
11:59
I did a presentation at work with 3 laptops connected to mine
11:59
and my laptop had wireless
11:59
they might have used thin clients tho instead of fat
11:59
for some reason fat clients are such a headache with network services
12:01
<muppis>
Well.. If you haven't configured any local apps in thins, they are all runned in server and thus uses server's connection directly. In fat everything is runned in client and acts like normal workstations.
12:01
<roasted>
yeah
12:01
but there's something about fat clients that make them more difficult to work with network services, such as file servers, etc.
12:02
I've done several tests here at home that suggest it, along with integrating it at work.
12:02
that said, we're pumping more RAM in our servers and moving everybody to a thin image since fat requires them to authenticate several times just to do simple tasks.
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12:04
<muppis>
That's weird. Personally never used fat, but haven't hear that before either.
12:04
<roasted>
we're also using a windows domain, which may be backwards to move people.
12:04
Most people I know integrate linux with their servers before clients.
12:04
we're doing it backwards. clients first, then servers.
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12:05
<roasted>
thin clients retain their connection since their chroot is part of the server, so they can go anywhere on any file server without issue
12:05
fat constantly drops its connection so we have to authenticate many times just to save libre office odcs, etc.
12:05
docs
12:05
so I'll probably go thin with local apps this week when I get my ram in
12:05
that way we can have a more seamless integration and also utilize some local processing for certain apps like firefox, etc.
12:07
Im going to try a fresh install of edubuntu and see whats up with this
12:07
cause even with the settings changed It doesnt allow my fat image to get external internet access
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12:09
<muppis>
Odd.
12:10
<roasted>
ha
12:10
just switched back to my thin image
12:10
what's up google.com. :P
12:11
<muppis>
Open local xterm and then try ping google.com, what happens?
12:11
ltsp-localapps xterm
12:12
<roasted>
if I ping anything in terminal on the fat client, nothing happens.
12:12
I can't ping my gateway, nothing.
12:12
<muppis>
But in thin.
12:12
<roasted>
even if I run ifconfig it errors out at soem sbin thing
12:12
oh it works fine
12:12
thin = everything works
12:13
ping from terminal, ping server, gateway, etc
12:13
external web sites, you name it
12:14
<muppis>
Sure you're pinging from local in thin? (Because it sounds really odd to me if in thin works but not in fat.)
12:15
<roasted>
applications - accessories - terminal
12:15
ping www.google.com
12:15
is that what you're asking?
12:16
<muppis>
Yes. If you that in thin, it is done in server by default.
12:16
<roasted>
that's what I did on both fat AND thin.
12:16
fat failed
12:16
thin succeeded
12:16
on the netbook, that is, whcih is my client
12:16
<muppis>
The try this: Open terminal as usual, then first this: ltsp-localapps xterm
12:17
<roasted>
on my thin client
12:17
right
12:17
<muppis>
It should open second terminal and try pinging from there.
12:19
<roasted>
haha
12:19
it failed
12:19
<muppis>
As I assumed.
12:19
<roasted>
it works in regular term, but not in ltsp-localapps xterm
12:19
what's that mean?
12:19
did I set something up wrong?
12:19
<muppis>
No.
12:20
It is default behaviour.
12:20
<roasted>
in a production environment, *should* it succeed?
12:20
or should I be happy it failed?
12:21
<muppis>
Well. As in default thin installation, nothing is runned locally so there is no need to enable NAT by default.
12:22
As you have set mostly things correctly, look steps 4 and 5 from here: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/ThinClientHowtoNAT
12:23
And step 6, ofcourse.
12:24
<roasted>
I'm trying to think out loud here with this documentation. I wonder if I can somehow salvage the fat clients we have and make them work more efficiently.
12:24
But since that is a windows domain environment, I am doubtful.
12:25
<muppis>
I'm always doubtful in Windows environment. ;)
12:26
<roasted>
I hear ya there.
12:26
I just thought for sure I was running FAT on the 3 demo pcs when I did my presentation
12:26
and they had external access
12:26
maybe they were thin and I didnt realize it
12:27
in fact it's possible they were thin because I don't recall messing with the chroot... I thought I just installed a bunch of crap and since it was thin, it just showed up on the clients.
12:27
<muppis>
:)
12:27
<roasted>
guess I better do some homework on local apps
12:27
Each of our clients have 896 ram, be ncie if they could use it and give the server a bit of a break when I swap them to thin!
12:29
<muppis>
With that amount of ram per client, you should just set up few local apps (like Firefox and Libre) and be happy ever after.
12:29
<roasted>
that's what my plan is
12:29
I never touched local apps before tho
12:29
so hopefully it's easy to set up
12:29
I hear enough talk about it I would think it is
12:31
<muppis>
Basic Firefox+Flash and Libre is easy, but if you need some special hw, it can get tricky.
12:31
<roasted>
hardware - hw?
12:31
<muppis>
Yes.
12:31
<roasted>
nothing is coming to mind that we would need
12:31
<muppis>
Then you should be fine.
12:32
<roasted>
to install local apps do I just sudo chroot into it?
12:32
and install them as if I'm in a fat image?
12:32
<muppis>
Yes.
12:33
<roasted>
so by default any apps in the thin chroot = local apps
12:33
<muppis>
To make sure, mount bind /dev and /proc before chroot.
12:33
<roasted>
mount proc proc /proc ??
12:34
<muppis>
You can do that after chroot.
12:34
<roasted>
what command would I run for dev?
12:34
for documentation purposes
12:34
<muppis>
Let me check.
12:36
mount -t devtmpfs none /dev/
12:36Last message repeated 1 time(s).
12:36
<muppis>
12:36
mount -t proc none /proc
12:36
<roasted>
not to sound like an idiot
12:36
but what's the point?
12:36
what do they do?
12:37
<muppis>
They just enable logging for apt/dpkg.
12:37
<roasted>
so if I forget to do that, is it the end of the world?
12:38
<muppis>
Nope, dpkg just like nag about it.
12:38
<roasted>
ah okay
12:38
bro I appreciate your help
12:38
I'm too tired to test it now but I'm documenting it quick
12:38
<muppis>
No problem.
12:38
<roasted>
then I gotta catch me a well needed nap
12:39
<muppis>
I should also get to the bed.
12:39
<roasted>
not bedtime here. its 345 PM :P
12:39
Im just sleep deprived from a crazy work week.
12:40
<muppis>
10:39pm.
12:40
<roasted>
can you think of any areas where local apps gets tricky?
12:40
like an example to watch out for
12:41
<muppis>
Opening files directly from Firefox.
12:42
<roasted>
like, links?
12:42
or opening an excel attachment or something?
12:42
<muppis>
Like opening attachments, yes.
12:43
<roasted>
what exactly happens?
12:43
does it error out or simply not function?
12:43
<muppis>
But if you install Libre and evince to chroot, then office docs and pdf's are handled by them.
12:43
<roasted>
because this may be an area that we deal with
12:43
evince...
12:43
what is evince
12:43
<muppis>
Document viewer.
12:44
<roasted>
oh, well I just use adobe reader on ubuntu
12:44
same job, I assume
12:44
<muppis>
Yes,
12:44
<roasted>
how can I remedy the firefox thing?
12:44
<muppis>
Evince is just multipurpose.
12:44
<roasted>
opening files, etc
12:44
<NeonLicht>
I use MuPDF, which is many, many, many times as fast as Adobe reader.
12:44
<roasted>
I only use adobe reader for consistency, since we have reader on windows machines too
12:44
<NeonLicht>
Many times faster.
12:45
<roasted>
I don't prefer it.
12:45
I just like to stick to 1 thing as much as possible, otherwise our students get confused.
12:45
some of them get confused, at least.
12:45
<muppis>
They need to be saved before opening.
12:45
<roasted>
ohh
12:45
so we cant OPEN attachments
12:45
but we can easily SAVE attachments
12:45
without issue
12:45
<NeonLicht>
roasted, try MuPDF :)
12:46
<roasted>
am I right?
12:46
NeonLicht, thanks
12:46
<muppis>
Cannot open diretly to associated app, but saving it and opening via Nautilus is a workaround.
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12:48
<roasted>
so if I try to open a .XLS, it'll error out (or will it even error out??). But if I save it and reopen it, it'll openi n libre office without issue. right?
12:49
<muppis>
It doesn't even error, as Firefox can't found mime for it so it suggest only saving it. But if you install LIbe to chroot, mime info will exists and then Firefox can open it directly to Libre.
12:50
*Libre..
12:50
<roasted>
ahh okay
12:50
that's awesome though
12:50
if it gave you the option but errored out, that'd be an issue
12:51
<muppis>
You can think thin with local apps like stripped fat.
12:54
But gotta go. Things to do before sleep and already falling asleep.. See you around.
12:54
<roasted>
thanks bro
12:54
have a good one
12:54
<muppis>
Be welcomed. Thanks.
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16:43
<roasted>
I copied my sources.list and I'm trying to apt-get update, but I'm getting a slew of errors. Err http://source.location Temporary Failure resolving, etc.
16:44
I'm on a thin client image
16:44
<highvoltage>
roasted: you should copy your /etc/resolv.conf file too
16:45
<roasted>
wait
16:45
am I to update he image after I copy the sources list?
16:45
<highvoltage>
any time before you try to do an apt-get update
16:45
<roasted>
so I failed
16:45
ha
16:52
highvoltage, look at you being a genius
16:53
missing a pubkey though. hmm.
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17:18
<roasted>
so the recommended fix for getting this pubkey fixed didnt work. Is it something about this being a thin image?
17:27
cancel that..
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17:29
<roasted>
still getting errors tho
17:30
anytime I install something to he thin chroot I get dependency errors it seems.
17:30
even if I install them manually, E: Sub process returned an error code.
17:30
maybe I'll just scrap localapps and spend the dough for more ram :(
17:32
<Bas__>
Hi! someone has worked with LTSP CLuster?
17:34
I need a little help with the application server configuration in LTSP-Cluster
17:41
log on to a thin client with the user is created in the application server or server control??
17:49
<roasted>
So wait - to use local apps, I need to launch them with ltsp-localapps firefox? By opening "firefox" in apps-internet-firefox I'm still using the server?
17:52
<NeonLicht>
You can add entries for local apps in the menus, too.
17:52
<roasted>
oh
17:52
do I just edit the launcher?
17:56
<vagrantc>
roasted: install ltsp-docs, and read the manpage for lts.conf ... LOCAL_APPS_MENU* parameters are what you're looking for
18:00
<roasted>
where does ltsp-docs install to?
18:13
<vagrantc>
?
18:13
on the server, on the thin client ... whereever you want it installed
18:13
the manpages go in the place manpages usually go ... other docs in /usr/share/docs
18:17
<Bas__>
none has worked with LTSP-Cluster?
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18:21
<roasted>
vagrantc, does the local apps menu entry only override when there's apps on the chroot?
18:21
like if I have that entry as true, and I have firefox on the server but not on the chroot, will it skip right to he server and launch from server?
18:22
<vagrantc>
roasted: it only changes menu entries for things installed in the chroot
18:23
<roasted>
does it do it on the fly? If I add more things to the chroot, would it change them as well?
18:24
<vagrantc>
yes
18:25
LOCAL_APPS_MENU=true
18:25
<roasted>
got it
18:25
I just can't figure out what's up with my error when I install things in chroot
18:38
time to try a new image
19:00
with the new image I got local apps to work with firefox as my test bed. It looks like Im running debian from 2005 though, as if it didnt pull my theme settings with it. Any way to adopt those settings with a local app?
19:03
not to mention I'm not able to get on any web sites with firefox as the local app. they just time out. I can ping externally just fine though. But firefox working from the server = just fine.
19:03
hmm...
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19:13
<vagrantc>
firewall allows ping but not other traffic through?
19:14
<roasted>
firewall makes no sense though
19:14
if it was the firewall, it'd be all or nothing
19:14
keep in mind, it works if I use firefox from the server. but if I use it as a local app, it just spins and spins when I try to hit google or whatever site
19:28
<vagrantc>
no, firewalls can allow whatever traffic in and out they want
19:29
<roasted>
well
19:30
I'm not running a firewall. This is a vanilla edubuntu install as of 3 hours ago
19:30
like I said, firefox runs fine if its ran from the server, OR ran from the client as a fat client. If I run firefox as a local app on a thin client, no dice. It's strange.
19:31
<vagrantc>
ah, it works as a fat client ...
19:31
there should be no difference between fat clients and local apps
19:31
<roasted>
hm
19:31
so why am I striking out here...
19:31
<vagrantc>
some people have all the luck
19:32
<roasted>
I've had 0, literally, 0 issues with true thin clients on LTSP.
19:32
fat and localapps on the other hand
19:32
eh
19:32
I'm trying to test this as MUCH as humanly possible, because I'm the one that needs to support it wherever it goes at work.
19:32
I'm just not sure I can deploy localapps or fat clients...
19:33
hold that thought
19:33
I just rebooted the client, again, and this time I have my theme and I have google
19:34
nevermind
19:34
just closed firefox, reopened it, it's spinning, no theme
19:35
I removed LOCAL_APPS_MENU so I can use firefox from server + local. Am I doing it right to launch firefox as local? ltsp-localapps firefox
19:36
<vagrantc>
that should work, though firefox is a bit tricky ... in that sometimes processes are running on the server, and even if you launch them from the client, if there are lingering background processes on the server, it will (by way of your home directory) actually start new processes on the server.
19:37
the exact details of how it works aren't clear to me, and i may have the exact details wrong ... but basically firefox is too clever for it's own good.
19:37
<roasted>
see, things like this just make me see no value in localapps for our environment.
19:37
It's nothing against ltsp at all, but if the apps won't behave as localapps, I'm not sure I can utilize them.
19:37
and considering each app is SO different, I have to watch what I do with each one.
19:38
<vagrantc>
sure
19:38
<roasted>
I just get confused with "if it works as fat, it'll work as local" when it clearly doesn't. :(
19:40
<vagrantc>
that is baffling to all of us. never heard of that sort of problem before.
19:43
<roasted>
Let me just recap what I did...
19:44
Installed Edubuntu - all updates - added thin client chroot - logged in as thin client chroot - installed firefox via apt-get install firefox as well as flashplugin-nonfree. Updated the chroot and added LOCAL_APPS=True in lts.conf under default. I have a cat5e line in between my netbook and laptop. netbook is client. laptop is server. Network booted netbook, logged in as a different local user than my laptop, opened firefox. Worked fine.
19:44
Opened terminal, ran ltsp-localapps firefox. Comes up with a stripped theme and won't hit any web sites.
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00:00--- Sun Apr 3 2011