IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 4 February 2014   (all times are UTC)

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15:26
<sbalneav>
jammcq: Pong
15:27
jammcq: Oh, looks to be up now.
15:27
Slow, though
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15:54
<arj_>
Hi! I have problems with qt apps, such as qupzilla, qtcreator, on thin client. They are renders very slow. Same problem: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2115560
15:55
How to fix it?
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17:23
<alkisg>
jammcq, sbalneav: nice to have the server up again :) Though it's always very very slow and hangs frequently and needs apache restart... maybe Hyperbyte could host it instead?
17:24
Hi vagrantc, do you have any plans to tag ltsp in the near future?
17:24
<vagrantc>
my plans seem to get perpetually delayed
17:25* alkisg knows the feeling
17:25
<vagrantc>
might try for today
17:25
<alkisg>
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TrustyTahr/ReleaseSchedule
17:25
16 February 6th Debian Import Freeze
17:25
18 February 20th FeatureFreeze
17:26
<vagrantc>
the import freeze is irrelevent- that only applys to things that get automatically synced, and ubuntu carries a diff
17:26
<alkisg>
True... btw note that you'll need a small packaging change,
17:26
I added a "--version" option to most of our scripts, but it needs to be generated by the build tools
17:27
http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ltsp-upstream/ltsp/ltsp-trunk/revision/2543
17:27
So the build tools need to update ltsp-common-functions
17:27
(--version and --help are mandatory, according to gnu policy... and it helped with older versions of help2man)
17:28
So, sed 's/ltsp_tool 1.0/ltsp_tool $version/' -i ltsp-common-functions...
17:30
<vagrantc>
could just ship a version file...
17:31
<alkisg>
Sure, feel free to change that and echo $version in ltsp_version()...
17:31
But we'd need 2 files, one for server and one for client
17:31
<vagrantc>
right
17:31
<alkisg>
ltsp-common-functions was handy there because we already split it to 2 files
17:33
<vagrantc>
having to distinguish between server and client version might be tricky...
17:33
<alkisg>
The server tools source the server functions, the client tools the client functions
17:33
<vagrantc>
yes, that's not hard, but how would the function know which to use?
17:35
<alkisg>
The sourcing of the version file wouldn't go into -common, but into ltsp-server-functions / ltsp-client-functions
17:35
# Source common server settings, e.g. BASE
17:35
if [ -f /etc/ltsp/ltsp-server.conf ]; then
17:35
. /etc/ltsp/ltsp-server.conf
17:35
fi
17:36
....something like that, which we already have there...
17:37
(or, from /usr/share/...)
17:38
<vagrantc>
it's been a while since i looked this over ... ok, so we ship ltsp-server-functions and ltsp-client-functions, which source the corresponding common-functions ... so we'd have two identically named ltsp_version functions, instead of putting it into common-functions
17:44
maybe just sedding it in place is fine...
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18:08
<alkisg>
vagrantc: we'd have /usr/share/ltsp/ltsp_server_version and /usr/share/ltsp/ltsp_client_version, but I don't see why sedding would be wrong, maybe even from the makefile
18:08
Or, a .in file
18:09
The ltsp-server-version file would contain LTSP_VERSION=xxx, and ltsp_version() would just echo it
18:11
<vagrantc>
right
18:11
or simple cat it
18:12
any of these approaches would work...
18:12
<alkisg>
cat would require ltsp_version() to be different, in order to know which file to cat
18:12
Sourcing would go to ltsp-server-functions, while ltsp_version() to common
18:12
<vagrantc>
ah, i see.
18:12
<alkisg>
In common we don't have an easy way to decide which file to source
18:13* alkisg prefers sed or a file.in though
18:13
<vagrantc>
right
18:14
ok, so i'll have to sed it in the packaged version, but that shouldn't be hard since we already rename it in debian/rules
18:15
<alkisg>
Yes I think I have it committed already in my packaging mirror... let me see...
18:15
vagrantc: https://code.launchpad.net/~ts.sch.gr/sch-scripts/ltsp-debian-packaging
18:16
...I think those 2 are untested though...
18:18
<vagrantc>
is DEBVERS set?
18:18
<alkisg>
Not sure...
18:18
We can read VERSION from release.conf if needed..
18:20
DEBVERS         ?= $(shell dpkg-parsechangelog | sed -n -e 's/^Version: //p')
18:20
VERSION         ?= $(shell echo '$(DEBVERS)' | sed -e 's/^[[:digit:]]*://' -e 's/[-].*//')
18:20
...at least that's what google says
18:20
<vagrantc>
yes, something like that
18:20
i just didn't see any such code there
18:21
alkisg: should it contain the upstream version, or the debian version?
18:22
reading from release.conf only works for released versions, i'd rather pull it from debian/changelog when building on debian derivatives
18:23
when i'm doing pre-release testing, i don't mess with release.conf at all
18:23
<alkisg>
dpkg -l coreutils => 8.21-1ubuntu4, man cat => 8.21
18:23
...so the usual would be "upstream version", but personally I'd prefer the debian version :)
18:25* vagrantc is finding the meaningless launchpad translation updates disruptive...
18:25
<vagrantc>
makes it hard to see "what were the changes since the last time i tested this"
18:26
when 90% of the changes are changes to comments in the .po files
18:27
wish i could just ignore .po files...
18:27
<alkisg>
OK, let's disable the ltsp-trunk translation commits too, until 1 day before tagging
18:28
<vagrantc>
this happens because something about our process deletes some file?
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18:32
<vagrantc>
alkisg: the one reason i'd suggest using files instead of sed, would be if some other thing wanted to check what version was available without sourcing common-functions ...
18:32
alkisg: i.e. ltsp-info could check what version a chroot was
18:33
or what versions multiple chroots were ...
18:34
but it is more to keep track of
18:35
also, i.e. python, shell, c could all read the same file
18:35
<alkisg>
(08:28:51 μμ) vagrantc: this happens because something about our process deletes some file? => no that was in ldm-trunk
18:36
(08:35:23 μμ) vagrantc: also, i.e. python, shell, c could all read the same file => good point
18:37
Although .c files would need it in a #define format, not in a VERSION=xxx format
18:38
And .py would probably need it in an __init__.py file, as __version etc etc
18:38
<vagrantc>
if it were just a file that contained the version, it would be easy enough to read
18:39
<alkisg>
I think that's what makefiles are for... to replace version in source files
18:39
.h in C, .py in python, .sh in shell
18:40
I.e. maybe it makes more sense to leave it inside the source file, and when needed, create a makefile for other languages
18:41
So when needed, we'd have __init__.py.in, config.h.in, and ltsp-common-functions.in
18:41
<vagrantc>
but that doesn't allow things we don't build from source to read the version ... maybe ldm would want to know what version of ltsp, for example...
18:42
<alkisg>
chroot $ROOT ltsp-info --version
18:42
<vagrantc>
doesn't work cross-arch
18:42
<alkisg>
True...
18:42
<vagrantc>
or chrootless
18:43
<alkisg>
OK I agree for a shell file with VERSION=number, and when other languages need it we'll see
18:43
<vagrantc>
i think creating stubs for python and c are needlessly complicated
18:44
VERSION= shouldn't be hard to parse out in any language
18:44
so shell can simply source, and other languages can do what they need to do
18:45
<alkisg>
I think compiled languages usually embed the version, so that tools like modinfo can read it without running the executables... but ok that doesn't matter much, we'll see then
18:45
<vagrantc>
although having server-side stuff possibly reset the VERSION= variable when reading client-side stuff ... need to pay some attention to that
18:46
no idea how extensively this will be used
18:46
really, iw as hoping to just upload and run :)
18:47
<alkisg>
sed is fine, we don't have to solve the version problem right now
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18:48
<alkisg>
It was hardcoded until a couple of weeks ago, no need to change it now :)
18:48
We can do all those ^ nice things in ltsp 6...
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18:58
<vagrantc>
suppose so
18:58
alkisg: what triggered the change at all? old versions of help2man? like in precise/wheezy?
18:59
alkisg: or more like lucid/squeeze/lenny ?
19:00
<alkisg>
vagrantc: help2man in lenny, but --version is mandatory by gnu anyway
19:01
About debian vs upstream version again, another reason to use the debian version is because our man pages may be different between distros
19:01
(some things may only be supported in some of the distros)
19:03
<vagrantc>
makes sense
19:04
how do we get help2man working correctly during the build? there are all sources of files sourced that have full paths, no?
19:04
i mean, i've seen it work, but it surprises me
19:05
<alkisg>
knipwim put an "if /usr/share/ltsp/* exists, source it, else try in ../../*" logic
19:06
...the other way around more probably, relative first
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19:23* vagrantc glares as ALTLinux and nbd-proxy
19:27
<vagrantc>
if systemd does land as the default init for debian... i hope they provide an /sbin/init ...
19:27
upstart works like that, yes?
19:28
otherwise, we'll need to rethink how init=/sbin/init-ltsp works...
19:28
<ogra_>
they provide everything
19:28
you cant even use syslog anymore once you have systemd
19:29
(crond, inetd, tftpd, syslog, dbus, init, udev ... are all swallowed by systemd, most cant be replaced with anything else without heavy investment to cut down systemd)
19:30
(dbus = system dbus here)
19:32
<vagrantc>
yes, i'm not really pleased with seemingly overly tight coupling/bundling of so much functionality
19:32
<ogra_>
yup
19:32
and it indeed completely ties you to the kernel version through kdbus
19:33
<vagrantc>
the whole debate is tiresome
19:33
<ogra_>
it is ...
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19:34
<ogra_>
what bothers me is that something like running debian on top of a 3.0 android kernel will become impossible
19:34
(well, unless you patch the needed bits into the kernel etc)
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21:00
<vagrantc>
alkisg: well, that didn't appear to work
21:00
alkisg: the substitutions didn't take ...
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21:00
<vagrantc>
probably some weird makefile/shell quoting issues
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22:48* vagrantc sighs
22:48
<vagrantc>
i spend hours and hours trying to get this code to build with the new version code sedded in...
22:48
and the manpages still include the wrong version string.
22:49
the worst is, i still don't even know what actually fixed it....
22:49
well, "fixed" it.
22:51
the manpages are generated before we fix the version
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22:52
<vagrantc>
and use the in-source copy rather than the version in the package
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23:22
<vagrantc>
well, that's no fun.
23:22
meh.
23:23
whole day spent supporting an ancient version of debian that i don't have any interest in, and still no ltsp upload :(
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