IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 25 January 2013   (all times are UTC)

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02:46
<vidd>
does ubuntu 12.10 have a method to install ltsp?
02:46
they seam to have gotten rid of the alt cd
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05:10
<Fuzaituo>
Has anyone ever attempted dmx http://dmx.sourceforge.net/ with ltsp terminals?
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06:43
<intestino>
hi, all
06:43
i'm from Indonesia and i'm new to LTSP
06:43
i want use LTSP with ubuntu 12.04
06:43
could someone give good reference for it?
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11:58
<vnc786>
plz share some links or notes of detail LTSP working boot process, imp files etc
11:59
looking to study more on LTSP ...any help.... appreciate it !!!
12:00
<muppis>
http://wiki.ltsp.org/wiki/LTSPedia
12:00
<Hyperbyte>
vnc786, you need to be more specific if you want clearer answers than that. :-)
12:03
<vnc786>
Hyperbyte: to be more specific let say i want to know behaviour of chroot
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12:05
<vnc786>
i got question if LTSP is in chroot than how it is accessing home folder of server (in my case i have installed ubunut12.04) basicly chroot means it will not go beyond wat we chroot
12:06
<muppis>
In general chroot is minimal installation which is loaded over network and connects to server X session to provide resources and programs running at server.
12:07
As default thin client there's no other local resources used than graphics, soundcard, keyboard and poiting device.
12:12
<vnc786>
muppis: right now i am not facing any issue but was thing that if we have old+ new machines (fat clients) if some machines are having display drivers issue so can we install driver for that particular board
12:13
<muppis>
Sure thing. You may need make a specific chroot for it then.
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12:21
<vnc786>
Hyperbyte: muppis: thankyou
12:21
<JuJuBee>
I need help. I have an app that my students require that I cannot get working in the image... I just installed it on the server and ran fine. When I try to run from client from GUI, the icon looks as if it is loading, but nothing appears and no instance of the software is running when I ps aux... When I run from CLI, it says it is starting then I get prompt back unexpectedly.
12:24
<Hyperbyte>
JuJuBee, sounds like the application is exiting somehow without a useful error message
12:25
This is where 'strace' probably comes in handy. :)
12:26
It'll tell you exactly what the program is doing on your system... will probably be a lot of output, but if you check out the last bits of the output, seeing which things it did last before it stops, will probably be informative.
12:27
<JuJuBee>
I will try that...
12:34
Hyperbyte: WOW, don't understand any of it... http://pastebin.com/KNgBmhVP
12:37
<Hyperbyte>
write(1, "/opt/pt533/bin /opt/pt533\n", 26) = 26
12:37
After that it seems to quit
12:37
That might be a big hint.
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12:37
<Hyperbyte>
It's trying to create bin in '/opt/pt533/' and failing, I *think*
12:38
But then again, this looks to me about the same as it does to you.
12:47
<JuJuBee>
Yea, it means nothing to me... Thanks for looking though.
12:50
If I build a new image now that this app is on the server and working, will the app be included in the image or just the base OS?
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12:53
<[GuS]>
knipwim: Hi! are you there?
12:54* JuJuBee has to go to a meeting
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13:03
<Hyperbyte>
JuJuBee, I don't understand.
13:03
Are you running regular LTSP of LTSP-PNP?
13:09
<JuJuBee>
Hyperbyte: regular
13:09
The program has a CLI installer (really just copies files to the destination folder)
13:10
I even tried copying a working copy of program from the server into chroot and update-image...
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13:20
<sha__>
hey guys, i need help with shutting down ltsp fat clients on ubuntu 12.04. i tried many workarounds, but so far only "poweroff -pf" works. i'm not sure if it's safe to use this, but how is it possible to use this command for ltsp shutdown? i grepped for poweroff and found /usr/share/ldm/rc.d/X99-zzz-logout-action and /usr/share/ltsp/screen-session.d/XS00-halt-reboot, so i replaced poweroff with poweroff -fp and rebuilt the image, but still the clien
13:39
<Hyperbyte>
sha__, what exactly happens when you shut down the fat clients the regular way?
13:40
JuJuBee, with ltsp-pnp, chroots are built from the server's OS. Meaning, if you install something on the server, and update the image, you'll have it on the clients as well.
13:41
With regular ltsp, you'll have to seperately install it in the chroot. The chroot won't be affected by changes on the server.
13:42
JuJuBee, what about my earlier remark, about the /opt/pt533/bin write?
13:44
<JuJuBee>
Don't know, the dir permissions are same in chroot as they are on server....
13:45
Don't see why there would be issue writing there
13:46
<sha__>
Hyperbyte: it looks pretty much like this: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ldm/+bug/457702 (many "squashfs error unable to read...")
13:46
the bugreport is from 2009, but apparently at least one person has this problem too with ubuntu 12.04 (last comment)
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13:47
<sha__>
Hyperbyte: ironically, a comment says: "This patch fixed the problem. It adds -f also to poweroff just in case" this is what i'm trying to force
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13:56
<sha__>
Hyperbyte: when i'm doing shutdown -h now from commandline, after "SysReq: Power Off" comes many "SQUASHFS error: unable to read metadata cache entry" "block nbd0: attempted send on closed socket" "end_request: I/O error, dev nbd0, ..." "squashfs_read_data failed"
13:57
when i'm waiting long enough, "INFO: task kworker/0:1:11 blocked for more than 120 seconds." and a message howto disable this (already tried that)
13:58
i'm assuming after "SysReq: Power Off" the machine should simply power off
13:58
<knipwim>
[GuS]: hey
14:00
<Hyperbyte>
JuJuBee, don't just check the chroot, check the client that you're launching the program on
14:00
<[GuS]>
knipwim: Hi! Just to tell you that i've installed latest ltsp on Gentoo, and the client does not boot right. So, what i saw in first place is that xorg drivers is installed but with no drivers on it. So, recompiled inside chroot and works. But when starts with XDMCP just nothin appears. It does with LDM, but in both case i dont have keyboard or mouse control
14:01
<knipwim>
you have input drivers in the chroot?
14:02
<[GuS]>
yep, reistalled also.
14:02
just in case
14:03
also, when booting, some udev errors appears
14:03
Is a fresh host server and fresh ltsp install... so, is weird.
14:03
Also, had to fix gcc profile
14:03
in chroot
14:03
<knipwim>
the gentoo stage3 is really outdated
14:03
<[GuS]>
But that one i think is a gentoo bug
14:03
yeah...
14:04
<knipwim>
they have the old gcc
14:04
<[GuS]>
yep
14:04
<knipwim>
also, i defaulted to no video drivers
14:04
for ltsp
14:04
<[GuS]>
Ahh oks
14:04
So i must specidy in the ltsp-client-build conf ?
14:04
specify*
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14:04
<knipwim>
https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=177580#c187
14:05
<[GuS]>
Right
14:06
Also, i cant enable ssh... it keeps telling me that depends on non existing net.
14:06
which i think the udev errors are cause of that too
14:06
<knipwim>
hmm
14:07
thx for the reminder
14:07
i just removed the depends from the ssh service to make it work
14:07
and forgot about solving it :)
14:07
<[GuS]>
:P
14:08
Great, thanks. Meanwhile i am trying to use a old chroot i had over there
14:08
<knipwim>
i didn't solve anything yet though ;)
14:09
<[GuS]>
:D
14:09
Thanks in advance then hehe
14:10
I video drivers manner, i just read the bug report of LTSP the other day, but undertood wrong. So, good to know now.
14:11
<knipwim>
you still use ltsp-client 5.2 ?
14:11
<[GuS]>
Nope, just installed latest of both
14:11
But meanwhile, i will use a old chroot, which i think has 5.2
14:12
<knipwim>
kk
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14:24
<JuJuBee>
Hyperbyte: that output was from a client computer when I tried to run the program
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14:48
<markit>
any squid expert here? I've set it up as transparent proxy and works fine
14:49
but now I need authentication for some hosts outside ltsp but that are in the same lan and use ltsp server as gateway
14:49
and seems that authentication can't work with transparent mode...
14:51
<otwieracz>
„transparent” and „authenticated” sounds… weird.
14:53
<markit>
otwieracz: well, should be like "I intercept your access, if you are not authenticated you are rejected"
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14:53
<markit>
otwieracz: even if in transparent, squid acl are working, so some control is done for sure
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14:54
<markit>
if not transparent, I should setup every user's browser to use it, right?
14:54
<otwieracz>
I think.
14:54
But I'm do not have squid knowledge.
14:55
<JuJuBee>
markit: transparent won't work with authentication
14:56
You can use simple auth and create their passwords then require them to use the proxy by blocking everything unless it passes through the proxy
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14:57
<markit>
JuJuBee: 6-10 years old children
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14:57
<markit>
or dumb teachers
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14:58
<markit>
so I should setup Firfox globally to use proxy, if is possible/reliable/does not break at every update
14:58
but I would love not to do
14:58
<JuJuBee>
I have used this scenario at my house when my children were that age.
14:59
What are you attempting to do?
14:59
Why do you need authentication then?
14:59
<markit>
it's not me really, is a "friend" of mine, I helped him to setup ltsp, things went very good but the "chief" of the schools now wants:
15:00
<JuJuBee>
So who will be using authentication? Teachers?
15:00
<markit>
a) log some pc, that are in the ltsp client subnet but are not ltsp clients. He wants to keep navigation log for 2-3 years
15:00
b) forbit their navigation if not authenticated, so the logs will have the username (hope squid saves it too)
15:00
<JuJuBee>
So he *wants* to have the username saved with the request...
15:00
<markit>
ltsp clients will not need authentication, since they will be used during lessons and the teacher is responsable
15:01
JuJuBee: yep, I've been told that some years ago someone used school internet to do some weird stuff
15:01
<JuJuBee>
I see. Well if he wants auth, then it is all or nothing...
15:01
<markit>
and police went there to investigate
15:01
JuJuBee: I've seen that in squid you can set acl also for IP range
15:02
like acl labor1 src 192.168.10.30-192.168.10.45
15:02
so would be possible to set a rule to make an authentication request only for that range, I guess
15:03
I'm a trained monkey not a squid expert, and so far I've only set it up as transparent proxy to alleviate bandwidth problems of schools
15:03
first time I face this request/issue
15:03
but since ltsp is used in schools, maybe this is a good place where ask :)
15:05
<JuJuBee>
markit: yes, ip range works, but if you use auth, then everyone has to use it.
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15:33
<Hyperbyte>
Squid cannot work transparently with authentication?
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15:33
<Hyperbyte>
I'm not sure if that's true. I know it can't work transparently with https, for obvious reasons, but for regular http it should work.
15:34
Transparent proxies aren't very desirable though, for the exact reason that https won't work.
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15:53
<||cw>
you mean proxy auth? no, you cant do that with transparent since the briwser doens't know that it needs to send proxy auth
15:53
browser doens't know it's being proxied at all
15:54
transparent proxy is really only good for caching.
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16:31
<JuJuBee>
Hyperbyte: any suggestions as to my problem getting my app to work? If I can't get it working then this is all for nothing... We use it every day.
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16:46
<||cw>
JuJuBee: what's the permissions on /dev/tty ?
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16:48
<||cw>
JuJuBee: also, ./packettracer is a shell script? try stracing the actual binary it runs instead
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17:19
<JuJuBee>
||cw: /dev/tty on server or in chroot?
17:19
<||cw>
on whatever the app run
17:19
though that may just be bash/dash/sh since it seems that's what you traced
17:20
<JuJuBee>
||cw: perms on /dev/tty in chroot : crw-rw-rw- 1 root tty 5, 0 Jan 15 14:41 tty
17:20
<||cw>
still, that seems to be a strace of the shell script. strace the actual binary
17:24
<JuJuBee>
Strange, I am in the folder where the binary exists and can see it. It is owned by root but group and world have r-x. When I try ./PacketTracer5 it says No such file or directory.
17:24* JuJuBee has to step out but will be back soon
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17:39
<Hyperbyte>
JuJuBee, I'm sure we can get the app working
17:39
Trouble is, I'm lauching a new website tomorrow, big formal thing... very nice actually
17:39
But it means I'm terribly busy...
17:39
I could log in again next week, so we can look at it together
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17:44
<||cw>
JuJuBee: that's why you need to trace. I've seen some apps assume that they are bing run from ../, like ./bin/PacketTracer5
17:44
and when you don't, they freak
17:44
<JuJuBee>
Hyperbyte: I will be in Monday Morning at 7:00am EST and will log into #ltsp
17:45
||cw: I understand, just weird that it says it is not there, but it clearly is..
17:45
<||cw>
does bash say it's not there, or does it say that it's not there?
17:45
like, the whole messge
17:47
<JuJuBee>
bash says so
17:47
<||cw>
and it's rwxr-xr-x ?
17:48
<JuJuBee>
yes
17:49
<muppis>
Is it same arch as system?
17:49
<JuJuBee>
yes
17:49
amd64
17:57
<||cw>
selinux or something restricting /opt ?
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18:41
<JuJuBee>
I do not know
18:47
doesn't look like selinux is installed? cat /etc/sysconfig/selinux -> cat: /etc/sysconfig/selinux: No such file or directory
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19:07
<[GuS]>
knipwim: is there any way to configure LDM greeter language?
19:10
I've tried but with no results
19:12
<vagrantc>
setting LANG in lts.conf should do it.
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19:32
<[GuS]>
LANG? I just set LDM_LANGUAGE but thats for X session.
19:33
Since greeter still in english...
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19:59
<Mip5>
Hey Gang - I need to run firefox for windows on my thin clients for some online testing (NWEA). I've installed wine into the chroot, but can't seem to launch it as a student. Any ideas?
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20:00
<Mip5>
The error message I get is that wine isn't installed (not that I don't have permissions to use it). Ubuntu 10.04.4
20:03
Okay - I must have failed to install it in the OS (but did it in the chroot). Installing it now.
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20:06
<vagrantc>
yes, LDM_LANGUAGE sets the locale for the session, and LANG sets the locale for the greeter...
20:06
if [GuS] were still here, anyways...
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21:32
<Enslaver>
Anyone awake? I've been working on the port for LTSP to RHEL, trying not to take from the Fedora/K12linux and just start fresh. Base LTSP and only incorporate what is needed. I also wanted make it more standardized and updated so i've been trying to build the latest SL linux 6.3 for the client. The problem that I am getting is that when the terminal boots it keeps complaining about read only filesystem
21:33
<vagrantc>
the initramfs needs to mount an overlay/union filesystem of some sort
21:33
or tmpfs mounts all over the place
21:34
<Enslaver>
so fstab needs to be modified pre-boot?
21:35
or is that done dynamically through scripts?
21:37
I guess I'm unsure of where the script is that generates the fstab for the client
21:42
<vagrantc>
it's usually done dynamically
21:42
well, typically, it just mounts the rootfs as a union of a tmpfs and the NBD/NFS root.
21:43
in the initramfs
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21:58
<Enslaver>
Wouldn't it be much much easier to just deploy client images versus having the end user install an entire other OS?
21:58
<Mip5>
Hi - so for this online testing (NWEA), we need firefox and flash. It turns out that it won't work on linux, but does work if I run it under wine. What's the best way to install firefox for windows (with flash) for my 35 users in my ltsp environment? I've got both a 12.04.1 install and a 10.04.4 install. Thanks in advance
21:58
21:58
<Enslaver>
Mip5: we use crossover linux for our employee's, works fairly well and they just released a new version
21:59
its basically wine with a gui and support
21:59
<Mip5>
I've never used that. So - I'd install that just like installing any other software, and the users would get it?
22:00
<Enslaver>
it is a front-end that lets the users install windows programs themselfs
22:03Phantomas has joined IRC (Phantomas!~Phantomas@ubuntu/member/phantomas)
22:04
<Mip5>
okay - yeah, I don't think that's the way we'd like to do this. It seems like I should just be able to install it the way we normally install software for users.
22:04
<||cw>
it's more than a front end. it's also a collection of tweaks and some custom libraries
22:05
Mip5: still doens't work even if you modify the browser agent string to say it's windows?
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22:11
<Mip5>
||cw - that was the first thing I tried, though maybe I didn't try hard enough. I used a useragent addon for firefox
22:11
<||cw>
sites like that suck.
22:12
<vagrantc>
Enslaver: sorry, i had to duck out for a bit ... did you figure out the next things you needed?
22:14
<Enslaver>
yes
22:14
Well, I'm on the trail
22:14
ls
22:14
the initramfs was never generated
22:15
<vagrantc>
that'd do it
22:15
<Enslaver>
the previous coders did it as a ltsp-build-client call
22:16
<vagrantc>
it's not just part of the kernel package installation?
22:18
<Enslaver>
only the initrd is made it seems from the kernel package
22:19
<vagrantc>
does redhat distinguish between initrd and initramfs?
22:20
<Enslaver>
I've never used initramfs
22:21
Debian i believe moved to that fairly quickly
22:22
<vagrantc>
long enough ago i can barely remember using a true initrd... maybe 2005?
22:23
<Enslaver>
Thats long ago? :(
22:23
I have leftover pizza from then
22:23
<vagrantc>
heh
22:24
well, it's before ltsp5 was called ltsp5, at least.
22:24
and i didn't get involved in ltsp till the muekow stuff that became ltsp5
22:24
<Enslaver>
dracut is what makes the initramfs correct?
22:25
<vagrantc>
that's the way it's going
22:25
<Enslaver>
So it appears red hat has adopted that, I'm curious why i see no initramfs images though
22:27
I suppose i can make them myself
22:27
<vagrantc>
debian will likely switch to dracut after the current development release gets released.
22:27
though right now it uses initramfs-tools.
22:29
<Enslaver>
So how can we make this standard across all variants?
22:29
.
22:30
<vagrantc>
which initramfs generator to use?
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22:30
<Enslaver>
Or why even use one
22:31* vagrantc would rather use an initramfs that a custom-built kernel.
22:31
<Enslaver>
Why not deploy the client as a whole rather than the end user having to install a complete other os in a chroot
22:31
<vagrantc>
and NBD needs userspace tools, so if you want NBD root, you'd need an initramfs
22:31
"as a whole" ?
22:32
<Enslaver>
I'm not saying get rid of initramfs
22:32
Yes, get rid of ltsp-build-client all together and go with the concept like which 4.2 had
22:32
<vagrantc>
because LTSP developers couldn't support that long-term.
22:33
<Enslaver>
nothing is supported long term I'm afraid
22:33
but at least with custom built client images you know them and use them yourself. I feel that would be easier to support, especially in a corporate enviornment
22:33
<vagrantc>
well, the idea behind LTSP5 was to build an LTSP environment out of a pre-existing distro, inherriting the package availablility, security updates, etc. of the host distro.
22:34
!muekow
22:34
<ltsp>
muekow: MueKow represents the future of LTSP. Using the packages available in the distribution, an LTSP client is build locally, and supported by the distribution. You can see the future at: http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/MueKow
22:35
<vagrantc>
heh, that URL is outdated...
22:35
Enslaver: essentially, most distros were not including LTSP because it was essentially it's own operating system.
22:36
and supporting local apps, fat clients, etc. was theoretically possible, but an ordeal
22:37
LTSP5 allows LTSP to not re-invent the wheel of a whole OS, and we can focus on the individual parts that distinguish LTSP
22:38
!ltsp5
22:38
<ltsp>
ltsp5: ltsp5 is The next version of LTSP, and the future of Thin Client computing on GNU/Linux. http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/Ltsp5
22:38
<vagrantc>
as is that one...
22:39
<Enslaver>
Then why pull from repo's to build the client? why not use the host's own binaries and packages?
22:40
<vagrantc>
well, that idea is essentially ltsp-pnp
22:40
which is integrated in ltsp-trunk
22:40
but the reasons not to could be different host and client hardware architecture, different packages installed...
22:41
<Enslaver>
another ubuntu-centric based project i see
22:41
<vagrantc>
?
22:41
<Enslaver>
ltsp-pnp
22:42
<vagrantc>
works on debian too
22:42
there's nothing fundamentally ubuntu about it...
22:42
the concept could be implemented on any distro that runs LTSP
22:43
but the distro it was implemented first was ubuntu
22:43
<Enslaver>
work on RH? centos? Suse? Alt?
22:43
<vagrantc>
Enslaver: i thought that's why you're here...
22:44
Enslaver: to get LTSP to work on RH ?
22:44
Enslaver: do you expect all LTSP developers to develop all ideas and all concepts on all distros?
22:44
<Enslaver>
I'm trying, but my goal will be to make it non-distro centric
22:45
<vagrantc>
so, typically, someone gets an idea, they develop a proof of concept, and if other distros like it, they implement what's needed to get it working on their distro
22:46
the goal with LTSP5 was to get developers from each distro contributing to LTSP and sharing their code in a common repository, diverging where necessary by the nature of the differences in host distros...
22:48
given that LTSP is essentially booting an operating system, there's not really always a totally distro-agnostic way to handle everything.
22:48
<Enslaver>
There has to be a more standardized way for these packages to be deployed, The LSB project is a start and thats the direction i'd like to head towards. When I go to install a linux project I don't want to have to worry about which distro its for
22:49
<vagrantc>
sure, you can make LSB compliant OSes, but there is no LSB OS. LSB does not spec out every possible bit and byte.
22:49
<Enslaver>
and in the future i'd like to see ltsp as a whole going to not only all distro's but also mac/windows as well
22:49
That means having some sort of busy box environment all packaged in a bundle doing its thing independent from the os
22:50
<vagrantc>
there are projects that do that sort of thing, but it will really limit the flexibility of what it can do.
22:50
<Enslaver>
Then all you need to worry about is the protocol the thin client talks
22:51
well not if LDM continues on the path its going
22:51
<vagrantc>
sounds more like tcos or pxes.
22:51
Enslaver: which path is that?
22:52
<Enslaver>
bridging the gap between really thin client and fat client
22:52
<vagrantc>
Enslaver: how will you install firefox in your limited busybox environment?
22:52
<Enslaver>
same way you do localapps/remoteapps
22:52
<vagrantc>
Enslaver: so how do you maintain dependencies?
22:52
<Enslaver>
package management
22:53
<vagrantc>
Enslaver: and what package management system will you use?
22:53
<Enslaver>
dpkg/rpm based
22:53
<vagrantc>
what about ebuilds?
22:53
or pacman?
22:53
<Enslaver>
heck, apt was ported to most all distros
22:54
pacman?
22:54
I already beat that game :)
22:54
<vagrantc>
it's a package manager for some distro
22:54
<Enslaver>
if its self contained why would we need more than 1?
22:55
lemme ask you something vagrant
22:55
<vagrantc>
Enslaver: i guess what i'm getting at, is how will you manage these busybox environments? why not just use what already exists (apt/yum/rpm/dpkg/FOO) to manage it in ways people have already sorted out?
22:55
<Enslaver>
Would you ever like to see the developers of ltsp make any profit?
22:55
<vagrantc>
and the most thoroughly sorted out way to handle that is using the tools to build an OS that already exists?
22:56
Enslaver: i've known many LTSP developers who make profit from what they do, but that's besides the point.
22:57
<otwieracz>
Can I somehow access mass storage device connected to thin client USB port?
22:57
<Enslaver>
The only way to do that is to start targeting a more corporate audience. Selling this as a product, not a solution, a stable product.
22:57
<vagrantc>
Enslaver: and people do that using LTSP...
22:58
<Enslaver>
And developing on ubuntu or debian more than likely won't be adopted by corporations.
22:58
<vagrantc>
otwieracz: yes, you want to look at localapps
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22:58
<vagrantc>
otwieracz: doh, sorry. localdev
22:58
<Enslaver>
Yes, i'm one of them
22:58
<vagrantc>
!locadev
22:58
<ltsp>
I do not know about 'locadev', but I do know about these similar topics: 'localdev'
22:58
<vagrantc>
!localdev
22:58
<ltsp>
localdev: (#1) for ubuntu: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EnableLTSP5LocalDevices, or (#2) for debian-edu: http://wiki.debian.org/DebianEdu/HowTo/LocalDeviceLtspfs, or (#3) http://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebugLocalDev
22:58
<vagrantc>
Enslaver: it already is adopted by corporations.
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23:00
<vagrantc>
otwieracz: it's typically enabled by default, look in /media/USERNAME/DEVICENAME
23:00
<otwieracz>
USB storage was example.
23:00
I want to access more specific USB device.
23:01
<vagrantc>
otwieracz: depends on the device.
23:01
otwieracz: for anything containing a filesystem, localdev is what's used.
23:01
<otwieracz>
thats modem-like device, AFAIK.
23:01
Looks like /dev/ttyACM0.
23:01
<vagrantc>
?
23:02
otwieracz: for that you would need to run your application locally
23:02
<Enslaver>
Well back to the issue at hand, I guess i'll just use the k12ltsp code
23:02
<otwieracz>
vagrantc: Roger that.
23:02
<Enslaver>
they seem to already have a script that makes the initramfs
23:02
<vagrantc>
otwieracz: so my original typo was actually right on :)
23:02
!localapps
23:02
<ltsp>
localapps: to access a tutorial on setting up localapps on jaunty, see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/LTSPLocalAppsJaunty
23:02
<vagrantc>
heh. jaunty.
23:05
<Enslaver>
One design question though, how 'thin' should my goal be? I'd rather a deployment that had a few extra 'niceities'
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23:06
<jammcq>
mac/windows as well?
23:07
<Enslaver>
yeah why not, you already have rdesktop abilities
23:07
plus it'd piss M$ off =0
23:07
<jammcq>
must I remind you what the 'L' in LTSP stands for?
23:07
<vagrantc>
Enslaver: that's kind of your call how thin to make it
23:07
<Enslaver>
and mac's remote desktop is a joke, with the quartz project it wouldn't be difficult
23:07
<jammcq>
LTSP isn't about making money, it's about providing solutions
23:07
<vagrantc>
jammcq: it all started when i tried to port it to Debian GNU/kFreeBSD...
23:08
jammcq: i thought it was about having fun :P
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23:08
<Enslaver>
Theres not a reason you have to move away from the Linux side of it, i was thinking of a mini-virtual emulated linux inside of the OS
23:08
<jammcq>
vagrantc: providing solutions is fun
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23:09
<Enslaver>
ok good, give me a solution for this initramfs issue :)
23:09
<jammcq>
i've been out of the game too long to know how to do that on RH
23:09
<Enslaver>
dracut
23:09
<jammcq>
that's why we need the help of the distro people
23:09
<Enslaver>
agreed, but RH has spice in their eyes so no help from them
23:10
<vagrantc>
do their eyes glow blue?
23:10
<jammcq>
sparkly
23:10
<Enslaver>
only when the hat is too tight
23:10
<vagrantc>
i should work on a spice hook for LTSP...
23:10
<jammcq>
vagrantc: question for you. I'd like to try nbd on debian, how do I tell the thin client to use nbd instead of nfs ?
23:10
<vagrantc>
jammcq: i've been meaning to write a howto for that...
23:11
<Mip5>
bye
23:11
<Enslaver>
its in the dhcpd
23:11
<jammcq>
I did the ltsp-build --nbd-conf (or something like that)
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23:11
<vagrantc>
jammcq: i think it goes something like edit: /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/update-kernels.conf and change the order of BOOT_METHODS
23:11
<Enslaver>
I think ubuntu uses a nbd-server.conf or something
23:11
<jammcq>
thre is a nbd-server.conf, but I think that's just to setup the nbd service
23:12
<Enslaver>
what we did was: option root-path "nbd:172.30.10.35:2000:squashfs:ro";
23:12
<vagrantc>
with recent versions of ubuntu and debian, it doesn't require any difference in DHCP
23:12
<Enslaver>
the RH Nbd is handled by xinetd
23:12
and we give the arg to the i386.img
23:13* Hyperbyte waves
23:13
<jammcq>
BOOT_METHODS="NFS NBD"
23:13
<vagrantc>
jammcq: then: ltsp-chroot /usr/share/ltsp/update-kernels ; ltsp-update-kernels
23:13
<jammcq>
but does that mean try NFS and if it fails try NBD ?
23:13
<vagrantc>
jammcq: that means the menu it generates has NFS listed first
23:13
<jammcq>
menu?
23:13
<vagrantc>
jammcq: you could also turn the menu support on and select at boot time.
23:13
<jammcq>
hmmmm
23:14Gremble has left IRC (Gremble!~Ben@cpc35-aztw23-2-0-cust207.18-1.cable.virginmedia.com, Quit: I Leave)
23:14* jammcq didn't know there was a menu
23:14
<vagrantc>
jammcq: it's usually not displayed
23:14
<Enslaver>
What i'm still curious about is when using nbd how the file type associations are done
23:14
for localapps
23:14
<vagrantc>
jammcq: change PXELINUX_MENU=menu
23:14
jammcq: or vesamenu, if you prefer...
23:15
Enslaver: same way as always...
23:15
<Enslaver>
they have never worked right for us
23:16
<vagrantc>
jammcq: basically, /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/update-kernels.conf contains a bunch of settings you can tweak and play with.
23:17
jammcq: and to make those settings go live, you need to run: ltsp-chroot /usr/share/ltsp/update-kernels ; ltsp-update-kernels
23:17
jammcq: to enable NBD support, you need to run: ltsp-config nbd-server
23:17
jammcq: though ltsp-config from versions before 5.4.2-5 had some shell-dependent bugs.
23:18
Enslaver: LTSP doesn't do anything special with file associations...
23:18
<Enslaver>
LDM does
23:19
<vagrantc>
Enslaver: the XDG stuff?
23:19
<Enslaver>
yes
23:19
ltsp-genmenu etc..
23:19
<vagrantc>
that's menus, not file associations
23:19
<jammcq>
boot menu.... pretty nifty
23:19
I booted it with nbd root
23:20
I think i've got some filesystem issues tho
23:20
<vagrantc>
jammcq: i reworked the menuing system just barely in time for wheezy...
23:20
<Enslaver>
X01-remoteapps
23:21
We run firefox as a local app but our evince (pdf viewer) is called as a remote app, basically any pdf you click on in firefox won't be associated with evince
23:21
i've tried writing gnome xdg mime associations to call ltsp-open but had no luck
23:22
<jammcq>
Enslaver: but that shouldn't be any different between NFS and NBD
23:22
<vagrantc>
Enslaver: yes, that's not exactly a filetype issue, though.
23:22
<jammcq>
or maybe I misunderstood your question
23:22
<Enslaver>
yeah sorry that was a bit confusing, when we moved to nbd we moved to localapps
23:23
<vagrantc>
Enslaver: that's localapps having no way to know what should be run locally or remotely.
23:23
Enslaver: so localapps calling other apps will have these sorts of issues, yes.
23:24
the difficulty of resolving that issue is part of what's caused many people to go either all thin client or all fat client...
23:24
<jammcq>
why not run evince locally too?
23:25
<vagrantc>
at which point, you're just shy of being a fatclient, and more complicated configuration and debugging.
23:25
<Enslaver>
thunderbird calls evince as well, so there would be a disconnect there too
23:25
its almost like we do either no local apps or all local apps
23:26
<vagrantc>
and what's worse, is various appliciations decide what to run in different ways ...
23:26
i.e. libreoffice vs. mozilla-family applications
23:26
<Enslaver>
omg don't get me started on that mess
23:26
<vagrantc>
Enslaver: yes, essentially fatclients is running all apps locally.
23:26
<Enslaver>
and apache-openoffice?
23:27* vagrantc chuckles at those clinging to openoffice
23:27
<Enslaver>
we run libre here
23:27
but unfortunately theres about 5 people here who still require excel :/
23:27
So we have crossover (wine) running excel on the server
23:28
<vagrantc>
it's one of the difficulties of freedom ... some people take it different directions, for better or worse ... but without that freedom, you suffer from vendor lock-in.
23:28
<Enslaver>
Not sure if a fat client could handle that very well
23:28
<vagrantc>
jammcq: sort out your NBD issues?
23:29
<jammcq>
no, haven't looked yet. working on too many things at once right now
23:29
and not doing any of them properly
23:29
<vagrantc>
jammcq: alkisg and I worked on trying to make that as painless as possible to switch back and forth between NBD and NFS...
23:29
<Enslaver>
now my boss wants to look at OFBiz :(
23:29
<vagrantc>
although it's not as clean as i would've hoped.
23:30
Enslaver: ?
23:30
<jammcq>
what is OFBiz ?
23:30
<Enslaver>
apache's "open for business" project
23:30
ERP/CRM/E-commerce
23:30
POS
23:31
<jammcq>
hmm, ambitious
23:31
<Enslaver>
Why did I go into IT again?
23:31
<vagrantc>
Enslaver: to complain about the good old days?
23:31
<Enslaver>
mostly
23:31
<vagrantc>
heh
23:32
<Enslaver>
well we run linux to the desktop and have been since 2001, he's the ambitious type ;0
23:32
<jammcq>
Enslaver: where are you located?
23:32
<vagrantc>
i swear 2000 was the year of the desktop... or was that 2001?
23:32
<Enslaver>
Houston
23:32
<jammcq>
hmm, warm down there?
23:33
<Enslaver>
Before linux he had some AT&T based unix with wise terminal's attached to the network
23:33
I think it got down to 80 today, everyone is in their sweaters
23:33
you still in michigan?
23:34
<jammcq>
yep
23:34
it's snowing today
23:34
19F
23:34
<vagrantc>
sunny here on the left coast
23:34
<Enslaver>
yeah i just got back from upstate NY, it was colder than a coleminer's ass up there
23:35
don't know how ya'll do it
23:35
Although we have to deal with the rain and the fat women
23:36
Some day's i'd take the snow over that
23:36
I think after I get ltsp ported to RHEL i might try getting it working on my Rasperry Pi
23:37
Talk about a 'thin' client :)
23:38
<vagrantc>
i got the stuff needed for LTSP on raspbian
23:38
works ok
23:38
<Enslaver>
what all is required, xatomwait compiled for arm?
23:38
<vagrantc>
raspbian being the debian wheezy rebuild for the rpi
23:39
<Enslaver>
I'm running pidora core 17 on it now
23:39
<vagrantc>
the main thing i did was get a proper linux-image package built, so it would support all kernel features ltsp makes use of
23:39
<Enslaver>
maybe i'll make a thin client/xbmc box
23:40
CONFIG_LTSP ?
23:40
<vagrantc>
although the raspberry pi doesn't have any real way to network boot, so i had to copy the kernel + initramfs onto the SD card to boot.
23:40
Enslaver: heh. i just needed initramfs support, aufs support ... forget what all else, maybe fuse.
23:42
<Enslaver>
Yeah i saw that :/ I'm gonna try putting the rootfs on nfs or something
23:42
<vagrantc>
Enslaver: basically, just got the raspbian developers to include a kernel packaged like most debian kernels, with most things compiled as modules and initramfs support, mainly.
23:42
<Enslaver>
or do etherboot?
23:42
<vagrantc>
no etherboot
23:43
<Enslaver>
:(
23:43
<vagrantc>
i tried using petitboot and pxe-kexec, which both use kexec, but it doesn't support kexec.
23:43
<Enslaver>
gpxe? :)
23:43
<vagrantc>
Enslaver: nope
23:43
<Enslaver>
uboot?
23:44
<vagrantc>
i've heard mumblings about uboot support for the rpi ...
23:45
though the rpi is pretty simplistic in it's approach to loading an OS ... it typically doesn't even have a bootloader, per se.
23:46
<Enslaver>
https://github.com/gonzoua/u-boot-pi/tree/rpi
23:46
that looks of interest
23:47
<vagrantc>
though the next RPI thing on my list would probably be debian-installer support
23:47
although if you could get uboot working on the rpi with networking support, that'd put me closer to a more complete LTSP option for the rpi
23:48
<Enslaver>
Hmm, looks like they have a build for the ARM on the RPI
23:48
<vagrantc>
maybe i'll give that a go
23:49
<Enslaver>
There's the fun stuff :)
23:50
if we had an ubuntu ltsp server could we just install like say LDM on our desktop servers and have each user point to that?
23:51
our desktop servers being RHEL
23:51
So basically they would pull their client image from one server and have their display be pointed to another
23:52
<jammcq>
you'd have a boot-server and an application-server
23:54
<vagrantc>
Enslaver: yeah, that'd work fine
23:55
<Enslaver>
talking over LDM(ssh) ?
23:55
or having to revert back to xdmcp
23:55
<vagrantc>
Enslaver: i've got a debian boot/root server, and several application servers (one running an older version of ubuntu, one newer, some running debian).
23:56
Enslaver: ssh should work
23:56
<Enslaver>
heck i might just setup a test virtual machine of that
23:57
What do i specify in the lts.conf? LDM_SERVER=desktopserver1 ?
23:58
vagrantc: check this out http://www.raspberrypi.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=5603