IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 17 August 2016   (all times are UTC)

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19:11
<bennabiy>
Does anyone have experience with wine in a thin client / fat client setup? I am sure a fat client would probably run better, but what is the best way to have a wine profile / environment shared by many users ?
19:14
<||cw>
the same way as with many users on a single desktop
19:14
<bennabiy>
how would you recommend? include it with the skel folder?
19:14
<||cw>
but in general with wine, you don't. each user has their own emulated C drive
19:14
<bennabiy>
yes, but I do not want each user to have to install mono gecko etc each time they start
19:15
I want the basic support for certain things already in place
19:15
<||cw>
you might be able to put some default in skel, but in general it sets itself up on first run anyway
19:15
there's probably some wine global option, but that's more a wine question
19:16
<bennabiy>
basically I do not want the user to have to install a bunch of things to get their app to work. My question is if I am doing this on a fat client, could I use an FSTAB entry in lts.conf to do a CoW type setup to have a RO base wine folder and each user customize their changes to it
19:17
I am planning on getting specifics from wine, but they will not know how to answer about the ltsp environment for fat client or thin clients
19:52
<alkisg>
bennabiy: many configuration settings store the paths in absolute manner, so if you install something to /home/bennabiy/.wine/program, and you copy it to /home/user/.wine/program, then it will still try to access /home/bennabiy/.wine/program
19:52
Only specific apps can be made portableapps that can access relative settings
19:53
<bennabiy>
What if I had a WINEPREFIX setup outside the home folder?
19:53
<alkisg>
You don't want to share user settings
19:53
You want to share program code only
19:53
So that in general is doable for certain apps only, and you can put them anywhere then, e.g. here we put them in /usr/share/program
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19:54
<alkisg>
For fat clients, it would be possible to have a cow form of the WINEPREFIX that you describe, so that each user had his own view of that folder
19:54
But that doesn't work for thin clients
19:55
<bennabiy>
yes, I would probably have to have two different setups for thin clients
19:55
but for fat clients, what would be the best way to make it work
19:55
<alkisg>
For thin clients, each user would have to have a different wineprefix, which means a different installation of at least the configuration files
19:55
<bennabiy>
I might get interrupted here, MAJOR thunderstorm coming through
19:56
<alkisg>
Since you can't do it for both thins and fats in the same way, I would focus on putting all the portable apps in /opt or in /usr/share, installing them in the menus etc, like normal linux programs
19:57
And I would make scripts in the form of playonlinux for those that are per-user
19:57
In a few cases, we also made wrappers that initialized the user settings the first time the program was ran
19:57
<bennabiy>
I am mostly looking at running people's USB stick portable apps
19:58
<alkisg>
We currently have about 20-30 GB of such software, properly packaged in .deb format
19:58
<bennabiy>
like thunderbird and such
19:58
wow
19:58
<alkisg>
thunderbird under wine?!!
19:58
Isn't the native good enough?
19:58
<bennabiy>
alkisg: I have people come through who are traveling through and only have their mailbox in a portableapps thunderbird profile
19:58
to install that locally for one use is a bit extreme
19:59
<alkisg>
bennabiy: so? you can use the native app and a symlink or a wrapper etc
19:59
There's absolutely no reason to use wine there...
19:59
Their settings can still be in the usb stick
19:59
<bennabiy>
no matter what version their datastore is on the stick?
20:00
<alkisg>
Even if you needed to run multiple thunderbird versions, you shouldn't do it via wine, but via prefixes or chroots or lxc etc, native methods
20:00
<bennabiy>
and how do you target each individual case that might have it in a different location within the root of the USB?
20:01
<alkisg>
But in general thunderbird has been stable in its configuration for years
20:01
How are you going to do that with wine?
20:01
<bennabiy>
yes, I am all for native, but not sure how to target all the variables
20:01
<alkisg>
If it's a locally installed wine, how will you tell it to find the settings in whatever dir in the usb stick?
20:01
<bennabiy>
It is already installed in the "PortableApps" app, which has their thunderbird installed
20:02
they just run their portableapps start menu
20:02
<alkisg>
And it's already configured to use all those different locations?
20:02
<bennabiy>
yes
20:02
it is designed for windows use
20:02
<alkisg>
And how are you going to pick the portableapps configuration and put it to .wine?
20:02
<bennabiy>
no need, just start the app
20:02
<alkisg>
From the stick?
20:02
<bennabiy>
yes
20:03
<alkisg>
Then why were you looking to put them in a common wine folder?
20:03
Isn't that were the conversation started?
20:03
*where
20:03
It's a completely different thing, to tell the users "manage your own apps in your stick i don't care", and to "provide a global repository of apps"
20:04
<bennabiy>
I do not need *those* settings in there... just the basics for being able to run certain apps
20:04
like the mono gecko fonts etc
20:04
basics like libraries for general app support
20:05
so that someone can come and run a windows app that *they* have and it might generally work
20:05
without being prompted to install a bunch of dependencies the first time they run it
20:06
I am trying to create a nice non-technical environment for travelers to use their sticks and check their mail etc
20:06
I am sorry for the confusion
20:09
Basically, I just want to have a default wineprefix with basic DLLs etc in place to support different apps,
20:11
but support that over fat clients
20:37
I am not too keen on supporting windows in general, but for those who that is what they have, I want to make a hospitable environment for them
20:38
My use case is a little different than the normal educational or work environment
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21:37
<||cw>
why wouldn't fat clients work normally? issues with nfs and/or sshfs?
21:38
bennabiy: is this really a common thing, non-technical people with portable apps on their usb sticks?
21:39
I'd say don't worry about it. provide a web kiosk and that's it. if they need more than that, you'll certainly have their own laptop, or logmein to their office desktop.
21:39
<alkisg>
fat clients work fine, no issues with any fs in wine
21:39
<||cw>
s/you/they/
21:40
<alkisg>
wine uses system fonts, so they can be installed in /usr/share/fonts for all apps, even native ones
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21:49
<bennabiy>
like I said, we are not your usual use case
21:49
||cw: we do have non technical people with USB sticks and without laptops
21:49
we are not a tech people
21:49
no smart devices etc
21:50
anyways, I will try with a fat client
21:50
waiting for one to arrive
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21:52* alkisg considers proposing http://www.gearbest.com/tv-box-mini-pc/pp_367432.html as an alternative to pi3 for people asking for very cheap clients...
21:52
<alkisg>
Just 65 euros, everything included...
21:53
1200 passmark score, not bad... considering pi3 scores less than 200...
22:04
!learn cheap-client as http://www.gearbest.com/tv-box-mini-pc/pp_367432.html
22:04
<ltsp>
The operation succeeded.